Standup Zone Forum

The Foil Zone => Foil SUP => Topic started by: supunk on April 26, 2020, 12:16:31 AM

Title: Banging Gong!
Post by: supunk on April 26, 2020, 12:16:31 AM
Gong’s new Veloce HA wings. Look great! :)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etI5uVSeC8Y&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: Thatspec on April 26, 2020, 07:36:30 AM
They did a pretty good job of keeping that a secret.
Not available until 6/22 which is fine, by the looks of things they won't begin shipping internationally again until then.
232.50 - 282.50 euro (you have to set up an account with a billing address outside the EU to see the no -VAT pricing)
How are these guys able to turn a profit?

https://www.gong-galaxy.com/en/product/gong-foil-allvator-front-wing-veloce-pro-clear/
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: Solent Foiler on April 26, 2020, 11:05:02 AM
Did I read somewhere that Gong fuses are compatible with Naish masts, or did I imagine that?
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: surfcowboy on April 26, 2020, 01:38:03 PM
Thatspec, it’s the lack of a distributor in the chain. By the time a foil gets to a local reseller in the US (for example, it’s already got a markup as well as maybe another shipping charge or two (China to distribution, distributor to reseller, then ship to you.) That’s a lot of fat.

People talk about R&D costs but really it’s marketing that adds up. Gong does R&D, clearly, but all those fly out events and demo days add up. (Just one example.)

I always wonder how much of a pair of trunks goes into John John’s sailboat or Kai’s Jet skis and Coast Guard RIB. (Not hating on them, just pointing out that we all pay for that stuff.)

I’m a fan of th Gong stuff but also have to admit that they tend to wait til the factories know how to make something (it looks like, at least) and then release their version. That’s cheaper than tooling up a new thing from ground zero. Smart business if you ask me.

But I really want a carbon fuse for the aluminum mast. For us small guys I’ll bet that’d drop a ton of weight with little downside or expense. (Yes, it’s on my project list.)
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: Thatspec on April 26, 2020, 05:10:24 PM
Did I read somewhere that Gong fuses are compatible with Naish masts, or did I imagine that?

Read this somewhere as well along with Takuma alu parts. The Gong aluminum parts are pretty simply made, no fancy machine work going on there (especially the fuse) but held up well for me. No play in the system and looked great after a winter of kite foiling, was easy to re- sell at a small loss and I've picked up the 100cm carbon mast/fuse, haven't even used it yet  :'(

I had the 80cm mast and while I didn't notice any flex, I'm no connoisseur.

Thatspec, it’s the lack of a distributor in the chain. By the time a foil gets to a local reseller in the US (for example, it’s already got a markup as well as maybe another shipping charge or two (China to distribution, distributor to reseller, then ship to you.) That’s a lot of fat.

People talk about R&D costs but really it’s marketing that adds up. Gong does R&D, clearly, but all those fly out events and demo days add up. (Just one example.)

I always wonder how much of a pair of trunks goes into John John’s sailboat or Kai’s Jet skis and Coast Guard RIB. (Not hating on them, just pointing out that we all pay for that stuff.)

I’m a fan of the Gong stuff but also have to admit that they tend to wait til the factories know how to make something (it looks like, at least) and then release their version. That’s cheaper than tooling up a new thing from ground zero. Smart business if you ask me.

But I really want a carbon fuse for the aluminum mast. For us small guys I’ll bet that’d drop a ton of weight with little downside or expense. (Yes, it’s on my project list.)

 I'm perfectly happy with the gear I've used from them as well and their business plan. Was going to buy another board and wing when the stuff arrives in early May but doesn't appear my delivery person will be able to make the trip in June as originally planned  :'(

The Veloce wings look great to me, I'll probably pick up a couple of sizes as soon as it's possible (might be fall in my case, who knows). The Veloce stabs, probably not. Looking pretty similar to the 40 and 45cm which are already pretty thin profiled. Need to see some other pics.

Yeah, that aluminum fuse would make a formidable weapon ;)
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: surfcowboy on April 26, 2020, 08:12:17 PM
Their tail mount is just asking for some bolt on experimental stabilizers too.

I wouldn’t bother with the surrounding part, just make ones that mount to the top, or worst case make some sides.

Keep us posted on how the carbon mast works. What’s the weight on that?
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: Thatspec on April 27, 2020, 08:03:32 AM
Their tail mount is just asking for some bolt on experimental stabilizers too.

I wouldn’t bother with the surrounding part, just make ones that mount to the top, or worst case make some sides.

Keep us posted on how the carbon mast works. What’s the weight on that?

Surfcowboy, there was an old thread on Seabreeze, even has a pic of someone's Takuma mast on a Gong fuse here;
https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Foiling/The-Gong-Allvator-SUP-Surf-foil?page=7

Somewhere in there I stated the weight of the 100cm as 2.6Kg, probably that's from earlier in the thread. Recall that it would not be much lighter than a 100cm alu setup (if they made one), just stiffer with a faster 'return to center' so to speak. Also eliminating the two big wear points that could develop play is great though makes it harder to pack. I was able to fit it in a Naish golf bag along with their 28 liter surf foil board and all my other gear which my Go Foil mast will not fit in.

The suitcase it comes in is really nice but will never be used again. Too nice to throw out though ::)

Shortening fuse length is something they haven't addressed yet, that'll just be more parts to buy. Those beautiful stabs are only 90 Euro though :o
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: PonoBill on April 27, 2020, 03:01:29 PM
If you plan to stay direct sale only it's easy to price like that, but there's no room to change your mind. The standard distributor model--increasing rare these days--assumes a 4X markup over the cost to produce something. Some products, like clothing, have a much bigger markup to deal with returns and stock rotation.
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: surfcowboy on April 27, 2020, 07:31:45 PM
Oh man, I feel you on the case. It’s great but I feel like it should be thinner and wider. Make it like a guitar case where it and a board would be near the thickness of that case. I can’t even use it locally in the car.

If it was same length, twice as wide and half as thick it’d be way more useable. Maybe worth an email. I still want to build a sup with a compartment for the foil parts to travel inside.
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: Thatspec on April 28, 2020, 09:23:22 AM
If you plan to stay direct sale only it's easy to price like that, but there's no room to change your mind. The standard distributor model--increasing rare these days--assumes a 4X markup over the cost to produce something. Some products, like clothing, have a much bigger markup to deal with returns and stock rotation.


Yeah PB, those guys just don't care about the US market. Probably they'd need a more standard distribution network here to make it work. As it is, shipping basically offsets the VAT tax savings though boards will never work, wings and foil parts probably no problem.
Too bad as they are churning out so really gorgeous SUP's as well as foil bits now with the high density sheet foam going all the way around the rails.

My last trip in March I had two giant checked bags full of goodies and was fully prepared to hand over the big bucks in excess baggage but probably due to virus induced confusion, United just waved it through  ;D It's just spin the wheel with those guys, they'll get me next time...


Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: Solent Foiler on April 30, 2020, 12:42:41 PM
https://youtu.be/gZL26RgEOis (https://youtu.be/gZL26RgEOis)

Forget it's about Gong foils, LOADS of excellent theory on foil design and associated performance... Really worth a watch if you're interested in that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 30, 2020, 05:33:18 PM
Terrific video. Mr Gong is the man. Need more of this.
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: Thatspec on April 30, 2020, 07:25:04 PM
Around 6:50 there's a really good comparison of the Veloce stab vs the current stab, a lot flatter and considerably thinner than I expected.
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: surfcowboy on May 02, 2020, 08:01:17 PM
Finally got time to check this out. What a great video. So much clear info.

Glad I bought into their stuff. Just need CA to let me go learn now. lol
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: Surfside on May 18, 2020, 05:28:47 AM
Sure did! As loud as a gun going off.
Hey, stuff happens
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: surfcowboy on May 18, 2020, 08:20:48 PM
Aw man. Off to the shop!
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: Thatspec on May 19, 2020, 12:21:04 PM
Sure did! As loud as a gun going off.
Hey, stuff happens

That's a shame Surfside, what size is it, and what do you usually pump it to?

I've been pumping my 5M Pulse (the one time I've used it...) to 8psi and it's plenty firm. That's a mighty fat strut to even pump to 8 :o

I just had a little shipping misunderstanding over my 4M Pulse, it's now heading to my GF's in Germany instead of Oregon (not entirely their fault... but some...) Picking up an Naish S25 3.6M today which may actually be a better jump down in size, the 4 seemed like it would be too close.
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: Surfside on May 20, 2020, 08:09:20 AM
This first generation 7m was pumped to 9 PSI when it burst. It's at the shop and I hope to get it back soon.
Read on a FB post that someone tested a few pumps and saw variations of a couple pounds. Hmm
So sorry to hear about the shipping mix up....It's slow enough as it is. Weighing 215 lbs. and with our light wind conditions, I like the grunt of the gong.
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: ninja tuna on May 20, 2020, 09:07:19 AM
Hey Surfside.  Which pump are you using to pump that up. I too have the original 7m and usually pump it up to about 9psi.  I have heard a few times where it seemed like the bladder moved a little inside,  where you kinda look at it like ... hesitantly wondering....  I am using the WMFG 3.0 pump.
Title: Re: Banging Gong!
Post by: Surfside on May 20, 2020, 10:42:04 AM
A slingshot pump. The strut looked good to me :)
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