Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Quickbeam on February 22, 2020, 01:29:05 PM
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I’m looking for some advice on what size Wing I should get. I’m an avid paddle boarder, but have never done any kind of wind sport. So this is all new to me. I’m seriously looking at getting one of the new Naish S25 Wings, but am not sure what size to get.
I’m thinking of either the 4.6 or the 5.3. I’m thinking as a beginner the 4.6 would be smaller and hopefully easier to handle and to learn on. But given my conditions, I’m wondering if the 5.3 might be better?
As for my conditions, I’m on a small lake and in spring / summer, the wind comes up most afternoons. The wind on my lake however, would probably be light in comparison to what some of you are used to. I’m not a good judge, but I’ve been told our wind averages between 15 km. per hour and 20 km. per hour, which would roughly translate to 9 mph to 12 mph.
Should also add that I’m 5’ 8” tall and weigh approx. 150 pounds. I’m 66 years old and in decent shape.
The lighter wind makes me think the 5.3 might be better, but given my smaller size I'm wondering if I could get away with the 4.6?
So any thoughts on the 4.6 vs. the 5.3 Wing?
I should also add that to start with I won't be trying a foil. I think I'll just use the Wing on my paddle board at first to get used to it. I would like to try foiling, but thought it would be better to get used to the Wing on one of my inflatable boards first.
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With that kind of wind a 5.3 will barely be enough.
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You will need the 6 minimum. The 7.2 might be even better but it is not available yet.
If you go too small you will not have much fun. You will be going slowly downwind only and sometimes you will feel like you are holding up the wing.
The 6 Swing will get you going in a gust of 14 mph, maybe even 13 mph with some pumping on flat water.
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O.K., thanks to you both for the responses. Is the 6 meter too big to learn on?
But then I suppose if that’s the only way it’s what I’ll have to do.
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From someone who has wingsupped quite a bit while working towards getting up on my foil:
1) You will have a really hard time getting and staying upwind unless you have a windsurf board with a centerboard, have really downturned sharp rails on your SUP or HAVE A FOIL.
2) You will get bored with a smaller wing and 15kt winds. Too Slow for SUPping.
3) YOU WILL NEED A BIGGER KITE. With a 6 You wont get overpowered, you just luft the wing/hold that leading edge and let it flop when it gets gusty. The larger wings, if not up on a foil, I think will drag in the water and pull you off your board quite a bit.
You will just need a bailout spot where you can walk back or do a dedicated downwinder with no intent of returning to point A while kiting.
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You'll need a 6M, big front foil wing, and some finesse/experience to pop up to the foil in those light winds. The good news you can certainly fly in those conditions, which I never thought would be possible until I did it myself with my 6M F-One and Gong XXL Pro foil wing. I don't think the 6M F-One would be too big to learn on. A piece of advice, go somewhere that has more wind than 8 - 12mph when you're learning, having more wind will help you when learning to get up on the foil. Trying to learn in super light winds would be really frustrating.
Regarding the upcoming 7.2M Naish, I would caution you to try before you buy. The big wings get really heavy, at least the one 7M that I tried out and it was a bear to use. It had plenty of torque, but it was so hard on the harms and heavy. It'd pop you right up on the foil but then I would get tired super fast and spent most of the time overpowered. I genuinely think you'll have a lot more fun with the super light 6M Swing and a big foil.
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I think the opposite is true. The smaller wings will be impossible to learn on when your wind is light. The 6 will allow you to learn because you will have enough wind in the wing.
When I started only the 4 Slingwing was available and the wind was light. That was not fun at all. It was not much more than floating downwind.
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You will need the 6 minimum. The 7.2 might be even better but it is not available yet.
If you go too small you will not have much fun. You will be going slowly downwind only and sometimes you will feel like you are holding up the wing.
The 6 Swing will get you going in a gust of 14 mph, maybe even 13 mph with some pumping on flat water.
This! I am also inland lake (northern Indiana) with comparable VERY light wind conditions. I"m 210lbs. and i have and tried the SlingWing 4.2 that I excitedly purchased in the first wave of these. Used it with my inflatable (RedPadCo 13.2) with the "downwind only" and totally holding the (heavy) wing up was tough on my 60 y/o (but fit) shoulders. Only a couple of times was the wind enough to load the wing and take it off my arms. Of course I knew NOTHING of sailing or how/where to hold the sail, so it was the blind on blind thing.
Between the super light wind, my 200+lbs and my 6" thick board it was a depressingly slow slog across the lake.
I've since realized I'll need to foil to have much fun in our winds. Now it's just whether to get a bigger wing or get the windsurf setup that started to look so appealing (boom and mast versus hand held) with it's bigger sails. ???
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I went to Ka'a this afternoon for a late session. the wind was light by Maui standards, 18 to 20 with gusts to 24. I blew up my 5M, then watched a guy with a 4.2 struggle to get out, deflated the 5 and took the 6M. Swapped foils from the 101/440/short fuse combo to the 1020/500/long fuse combo. I had a blast.
The torque and lift of the 6M F-one makes it easy to get up on the foil even in lulls. It's very wide, so I need to keep it over my head a bit, but it's also light, so it just kind of floats up there. I've tried other 6M wings and they are heavy bastards. The F-One isn't, but it's clumsy. The first day I used it I thought I'd screwed up buying the thing, but I'm used to its sneaky tricks now. It wants to dip a wingtip and flip over, so you have to watch that. Easier to prevent it if you're up on the foil.
It was light enough wind that I had to pump like a maniac sometimes, and the 6M doesn't like the usual pump--I have to kind of swoop it like you do with a kite. But the combination of pumping the board and one good swoop and I'm up and foiling.
I didn't think I'd use this wing much when I bought it, but I find I've slid a little up the scale of what wings I like. The 6 and 5 are the goto. I tend to stick with the 5 even when it's grossly overpowered, and then skip over the 4.2 to the 3.5. It's kind of weird to do that, I'm certain if I spent some time with the 4.2 that I'd like it more, but right now I'd rather be on the five if the 4.2 will work.
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MLB, I know your pain first hand as I had the same experience with the Slingwing.
Have you windsurfed before? The learning curve is a lot steeper than learning the Wing.
If you are planning on Wind Foiling, the sail sizes for me were the same as my wing line up. I used a 4,5, & 6.
I suggest checking out the size 6 Swing Wing. Having the right size wing for light wind makes a huge difference. Also, the Swing Wing is feather light. One finger to hold it up assuming there is the right wind for the size. This includes even their largest size the 6.
Once you have enough wind in the wing you can practice on land which is nice, something you can't do with Wind Surfing. You can really learn a lot of wing control just standing at the shore and grabbing the wind from there.
If you can get a board with a dagger board that will be better for your first runs on the water. If not the largest SUP Foil Board you can get would work well too.
Any questions just let me know. I went through the learning curve and am loving Wing Foiling now.
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I suggest checking out the size 6 Swing Wing. Having the right size wing for light wind makes a huge difference. Also, the Swing Wing is feather light. One finger to hold it up assuming there is the right wind for the size. This includes even their largest size the 6.
The names are so close this might be confusing. Just to clarify, the Swing Wing is the F-One. The same wing I was posting about above. supkailua and my experience are exactly the same. The Swing is a light and easy wing to use, even in the largest size.
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Wow, thanks so much guys. I really do appreciate it. This is the second time I’ve come close to pulling the trigger on a Wing. I know it would have been a mistake the first time, and now it looks like it will probably be a mistake this time.
My story is much like MLB’s. Only difference is I didn’t buy. But I almost did. And like MLB, I was going to get the SlingWing when they first came out. Glad now I didn’t.
A couple of things have become abundantly clear to me from all your posts. First of all, given my conditions and lighter wind, I’m going to need a larger Wing than I originally thought. I had hoped my smaller size and lighter weight might allow me to go smaller, but it doesn’t look like this is the case. And then with needing a bigger Wing, the weight of the Wing will become an issue.
You have all given me some things to think about, so once again I think I’ll hold off for a bit longer. One way or the other I’m determined to try this out, but I’d rather wait a bit longer and get the right equipment than rush in and get equipment that takes the enjoyment out of it.
Thanks again.
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I agree with everything you are saying other than the weight of the big wing.
I find the big wing a pleasure to foil with. It is light as a feather when the wind is in it, and even when the wind drops where nothing will go, the big wing will get you upwind and back to shore where the small wings won't.
For me the big wing opened up a whole new level of fun in Wing Foiling because of the ability to go in very light wind when the water is very flat and clear.
None of the Swing Wings are heavy, even with no wind, and with wind, they float like a paper airplane or feather.
When I started the 5 and 6 were not available, so yes, it was probably too early, but I believe you can easily get a hold of a 6 Swing Wing now.
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I should also add that to start with I won't be trying a foil. I think I'll just use the Wing on my paddle board at first to get used to it. I would like to try foiling, but thought it would be better to get used to the Wing on one of my inflatable boards first.
Hi Quick,
You are going to have an amazing time with this and it is certainly doable with your wind conditions. If your goal is to foil, I would skip the SUP. That is not is positive experience for most who try it and it can be very discouraging. Get yourself a stable SUP style foilboard, an easy lift foil setup and get started. You can do all of your surface cruising, directional learning, etc on that kit. When it comes time to foil you will already be tuned in to your gear.
At 150 lbs you will be a light wind Marvel with my big kit. Commit and you will be foiling away this summer.
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The whole industry did a terrible disservice to middle America putting out 4m wings only, when most of the country needs 5 and 6 meters.
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I agree the larger wing gets you up and foiling much faster with less frustration. Same goes for the foil..larger gets you up and riding sooner.
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The whole industry did a terrible disservice to middle America putting out 4m wings only, when most of the country needs 5 and 6 meters.
I agree the larger wing gets you up and foiling much faster with less frustration. Same goes for the foil..larger gets you up and riding sooner.
I fully agree, big foil and kite wing get you up sooner. Sup foiling is another level of hardship :)
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I agree with everything you are saying other than the weight of the big wing.
I find the big wing a pleasure to foil with. It is light as a feather when the wind is in it, and even when the wind drops where nothing will go, the big wing will get you upwind and back to shore where the small wings won't.
For me the big wing opened up a whole new level of fun in Wing Foiling because of the ability to go in very light wind when the water is very flat and clear.
None of the Swing Wings are heavy, even with no wind, and with wind, they float like a paper airplane or feather.
When I started the 5 and 6 were not available, so yes, it was probably too early, but I believe you can easily get a hold of a 6 Swing Wing now.
Hi supkailua. Sorry, my bad. I know that the F-One Swings are light. But I was looking at the new Naish wings and I’m thinking that the 6m Naish would be too heavy. So I’m going to wait just a little bit longer to see what other 2nd generation Wings come out, but am thinking now I’ll probably end up with the 6m F-One. Thanks.
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I should also add that to start with I won't be trying a foil. I think I'll just use the Wing on my paddle board at first to get used to it. I would like to try foiling, but thought it would be better to get used to the Wing on one of my inflatable boards first.
Hi Quick,
You are going to have an amazing time with this and it is certainly doable with your wind conditions. If your goal is to foil, I would skip the SUP. That is not is positive experience for most who try it and it can be very discouraging. Get yourself a stable SUP style foilboard, an easy lift foil setup and get started. You can do all of your surface cruising, directional learning, etc on that kit. When it comes time to foil you will already be tuned in to your gear.
At 150 lbs you will be a light wind Marvel with my big kit. Commit and you will be foiling away this summer.
Thanks Admin. Really appreciate it. I’ve been thinking all along that I would get the Wing first, use it on my SUP for a while, and then invest in a foil and foil board. But what you are saying makes sense.
Just out of curiosity though, are you saying get the board and foil, and ride the board with the foil attached while I’m just learning?
Thanks.
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.... are you saying get the board and foil, and ride the board with the foil attached while I’m just learning?
Thanks.
Yes. The foil under the board, helps a lot. Even when not up on foil.
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The whole industry did a terrible disservice to middle America putting out 4m wings only, when most of the country needs 5 and 6 meters.
Development happened in Maui and Hood River. It's no big surprise that the 5 and 6 came late to the party. Even I can use a 3M wing in those places--sometimes.
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I think Admin is absolutely right. Allan Cadiz starts people off on a huge windsurfer with a centerboard--for the first hour or so. After that, it's straight to a foilboard. He sometimes uses a very short mast to reduce the "oh shit, I'm up really high" panic, but that goes away quickly too. It's best to get to your target equipment as quickly as possible, and plenty of people now are skipping the interim stages and going straight to the real gear. They do fine.
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Thanks Dwight and Pono. Very much appreciated. In the next couple of weeks I’m going to take a trip to a board shop that’s a little out of town and see what they have to offer in the way of foils and foil boards. And I hope you don’t mind, but I’m sure I’ll have a ton of questions about boards and foils after that. I’ve been following the discussion on Wings pretty religiously, but I know less than nothing about foils and foil boards.
Thanks again.
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Just out of curiosity though, are you saying get the board and foil, and ride the board with the foil attached while I’m just learning?
Yes, attach everything and set out. The board feels a little different with a foil under it. Even getting this stuff to (and into) the water requires some planning and getting used to. You will learn the balance of your board and foil while you are improving at the kneestart, cruising, pumping the (air) wing, staying upwind, learning surface transitions, etc. That all works very well on a floaty SUP foilboard. It is not high action, but it will still be plenty challenging and fun. Then, when you are ready to try taking off, you will already know your kit really well so you will really be able to focus on taking off. In the kind of wind that you are describing you wont be foiling accidentally. That will take a little input. That is great for starting out. Let us know how it goes!
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Thanks so much Admin. And yes, you’ll definitely be hearing back from me.
I’m going to try giving myself a bit of an education on foils and foil boards, and then I’m sure I’ll be back looking for advice on which equipment would be best for me.
Thanks again.
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I agree, bigger wing and bigger foil will make life easier. Much easier, especially in the light winds. I am super happy with my swing 5m and gofoil setup. When it is up to 20mph I am on maliko 280 - it takes me one or two pumps to fly. When it is gusting above 20 I am on Maliko 200 or Iwa wings. But smaller wings definitely take more wind/pumping to get going. I think 5m is really a good size, unless your goal is to fly in 10mph then 6 probably makes more sense.
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Thanks so much Admin. And yes, you’ll definitely be hearing back from me.
I’m going to try giving myself a bit of an education on foils and foil boards, and then I’m sure I’ll be back looking for advice on which equipment would be best for me.
Thanks again.
That is a great plan. Your foil setup is going to be the most important element. At your specs you could foil in your wind with either the 5 or the 6 Swing (sorry, I have no info on the new larger Naishes). There are lots of boards that will work. But, your foil setup will be much more specific than that. If it is not right you could stay surface bound. I would strongly suggest that you stick with known good combinations for new riders (that is important) at your weight.
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Thanks so much Admin. And yes, you’ll definitely be hearing back from me.
I’m going to try giving myself a bit of an education on foils and foil boards, and then I’m sure I’ll be back looking for advice on which equipment would be best for me.
Thanks again.
That is a great plan. Your foil setup is going to be the most important element. At your specs you could foil in your wind with either the 5 or the 6 Swing (sorry, I have no info on the new larger Naishes). There are lots of boards that will work. But, your foil setup will be much more specific than that. If it is not right you could stay surface bound. I would strongly suggest that you stick with known good combinations for new riders (that is important) at your weight.
Thanks Admin. But this raises two questions for me. First, do you have any suggestions on what might be a good foil set up for me given my weight and my conditions? I really am totally lost when it comes to foil set ups. I remember hearing larger is better. And I believe Pono suggested a shorter mast. I also remember someone saying that when they bailed off their board, their foil always sank and this was important for safety while learning??? But again, any specific recommendations would be very much appreciated. If at all possible, I really would like to get this right the first time.
And secondly, do you think I could get away with the 5m Swing? I’m just thinking it would be easier to learn on a smaller Wing and if the 5m would work, I’m thinking it might be better than trying to learn on the 6m??? Or am I better to just get the 6m?
Thanks again.
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The Axis 1020 front wing, Standard fuselage (this is actually their longest option) 500 tail, 68 cm mast. I know that this will fly your 150 lbs easily. There are likely others that would as well but I am 100% confident that this will. I am 170 lbs and this will fly me in your wind with a 5.0 Swing. The system is modular so you can change mast lengths or try different foils with much less wallet abuse after the initial purchase. The resale value on this stuff is great if you need to make a change. Masts are inexpensive new but you will be fine on the 68. It is not too long to learn on (we both did) and as you will have no chop or swell on your lake you will never need longer for that condition.
9-12 works on my 5.0 Swing. I am 13% heavier than you are so it will be "bigger" again for you. I wasn't sure that I even wanted the 6 but I really enjoy light wind foiling and I am hopeful that it will let me go in even lighter winds or in the same winds with a smaller foil setup. Chan goes in the same wind as I do on the 4.2 Swing and an Axis 920/440 setup. All that said, I am not sure that there will be a big downside to the 6 for you. A lot of the members here have been using it and loving it. I flew the 6 last week on land (yes, 3 months off will do that to you) and it still feels very light and manageable. It is lighter than most company's 4 meters. I haven't used the 6 in the water yet so that is the limit of what I can offer on that size. The Swings are the most powerful wings that I have used so far. They have a lot of low end get up and go which will help you a lot (especially at first). A lot of brands are adopting elements of the Swing design now so there may be other great options this season.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/86773251_3446338812105459_2554467383100047360_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ohc=Pd6i8jCqOOoAX9DWt1w&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=1f632010994284f6905e59a4bb4dc11a&oe=5EC1284D)
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The Axis 1020 front wing, Standard fuselage (this is actually their longest option) 500 tail, 68 cm mast. I know that this will fly your 150 lbs easily. There are likely others that would as well but I am 100% confident that this will. I am 170 lbs and this will fly me in your wind with a 5.0 Swing. The system is modular so you can change mast lengths or try different foils with much less wallet abuse after the initial purchase. The resale value on this stuff is great if you need to make a change. Masts are inexpensive new but you will be fine on the 68. It is not too long to learn on (we both did) and as you will have no chop or swell on your lake you will never need longer for that condition.
9-12 works on my 5.0 Swing. I am 13% heavier than you are so it will be "bigger" again for you. I wasn't sure that I even wanted the 6 but I really enjoy light wind foiling and I am hopeful that it will let me go in even lighter winds or in the same winds with a smaller foil setup. Chan goes in the same wind as I do on the 4.2 Swing and an Axis 920/440 setup. All that said, I am not sure that there will be a big downside to the 6 for you. A lot of the members here have been using it and loving it. I flew the 6 last week on land (yes, 3 months off will do that to you) and it still feels very light and manageable. It is lighter than most company's 4 meters. I haven't used the 6 in the water yet so that is the limit of what I can offer.
Thank you so much. This is exactly the information I was looking for. As I said, I have at least a little bit of knowledge on Wings, but on foil set ups I'm totally lost. So this really helps. Thanks again!
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A lot of brands are adopting elements of the Swing design now so there may be other great options this season.
As I had mentioned earlier, my initial plan was to get a Wing, use it on my inflatable SUP and then somewhere down the road look into a board and foil setup. I’ve now changed and think I will get the foil and the board first. I really won’t be able to do anything until probably sometime in May when the weather warms up a bit, so that will give me a chance to look at some of the second generation Wings. I’m now definitely leaning towards the 6m FOne Swing, but I’m thinking there is no harm in waiting just a bit longer as I can’t do anything with it right now anyway.
Thanks again to you Admin., and to all the others who have responded. Very, very much appreciated.