Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: ninja tuna on January 25, 2020, 07:04:15 AM
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I have been out 3 times on the wingdings because of work getting in the way. Now I should have some more time to play. My wings are the Naish 4.0 and Gong 5 and 7. I went out once over Christmas but the wind did not get high enough. But it gave me the feel for playing with the 7. I have been riding on my 6’4” supfoilmachines from DWight.
So I had a good opportunity to FINALLY play in some good wind this week in Florida. Gear was the above 6’4 board, Gong 5m wing, and Armstrong 2400 with the 72 cm mast. Wind on the internet showed 20-35mph from windfinder. I had a boat follow me so I did not have to worry about getting back to any specific point. It was on a large bay in the intercoastal so it was really choppy. Tight 1-2 foot chop. I started near a sandbar where the chop was about a third of where I ended up more in the open water.
Little bit of a juggling act getting everything set up in the boat but doable. Just learning process. Out on the board, wow, gooood wind. Standing was so easy with the wind lifting me up. Third attempt and I am off and FLYINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG. Wooooooooooooohoooooooooo. OK, how do you slow this thing down. Flew for about 20-25 seconds before a spectacular splash. Ok so this continued for about an hour more. As I drifted out into the choppier water, it made things a little more difficult. I could get up on the foil within about 10-15 seconds when I wanted to. I was getting rides from 5-15 seconds. The problem I was having was controlling my speed. I would get up on the foil and just take off. Whooooosh. Then I remembered the throttle is my hands and I could think about more than just getting on the foil. I was doing that. Now to start controlling. I got up and took off, angled more upwind and then start feathering the wing. I stayed up for about 90 seconds and went down because I was getting close to my turn around point. I put the wing down to stop. But that last ride I was able to put everything together. I was flying on the foil mostly. I would touch down here and there with my lack of experience coordinating my direction and wind power with the wing.
It was getting later so I called it for the day. Looking forward to more though. What a cool feeling.
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Well how cool is that! Stoked for you Ninja!
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Cool, Tuna... ' Hoping to see a similar break in the clouds myself this year.
Jim
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Now I am really flying,
At least in 1 direction.
Had some more good winds today again in Florida, 20-35mph. I was planning on trying out the Naish wing, but did not have the correct adapter for my waterman pump. So back to the Gong 5m wing. Same location, same board, same foil, and basically the same conditions. Picking up where I left off from the other day, I was up flying and controlling the wing and the direction of the board to control my speed. My rides were minutes this time to where I was taking breaks to rest after riding for a while. I was feeling some leg burn going on. Along with my rides being very much longer, when I was flying I was up on the foil a majority of the time. Only touching down here or there. Such a cooooool feeling. I started doing some carves toward downwind. I would pick up speed and then carve back upwind to shed off the speed.
The Gong like the Naish and several other companies has handles down the center strut. With 1 being the first handle towards the leading edge. I would hold 1 and 3 to get up from my knees. I would then switch the 1 and 4 for flying. One time when I thought there was a lull going on I switched my hands to 2 and 5 a little farther down and that felt like it drastically increased the power. Quickly back to 1 and 4 for the day. 2 and 5 might be for a more light wind day.
Today was just getting the feeling of flight and playing with different things on my strong side. I have a much better idea of how things are supposed to feel. Next time out I will work on my backside riding and/or some transitions from one direction to the other.
One another note. The time I have spent on the foil behind the boat has been paying off huge. When I am up on the foil with the wing, I really do not have to think about the foil. I am still working on the pumping to launch the foil quicker but once up, I only have to think about tuning the angle of the wing at the moment.
Hope this helps anyone learning the way Admin posted his beginnings.
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Ninja, where in FL are you riding?
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In mosquito lagoon on the north side of cape canaveral. Probably about 20 miles north of where DWight rides on the south side of cape canaveral.
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ok know the area never sailed there I am down in Vero Beach
hope wind comes up again as it looks a little weak for the next few days down here.
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In mosquito lagoon on the north side of cape canaveral. Probably about 20 miles north of where DWight rides on the south side of cape canaveral.
What launch point on the lagoon? Often thought about riding there, but didn’t know anyone was doing it. Figured without people regularly using the lagoon, alligators might be thick as thieves.
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Here is where I ride.
(https://i.imgur.com/pUczsLs.jpg)
Dwight, for you to ride I think would be counter productive and way out of the way. You ride very good and can go up wind. So your spot is close and convenient. I get there by boat and ride out of my boat. This way I can change my start location based on the wind direction. I stay away from the sandbars and flats to stay out of the way of the fisherman. Not that they are out when the wind is howlin, but I fish here a lot and I want to keep it courteous. As you can see from the screenshot below, I can go quite a ways in almost any direction. With having a boat following me, I do not have to worry about getting back to any particular launch spot.
The only way to get there by car is to go north to new Smyrna and then back down south to the north half of Canaveral national seashore. You cannot get there via the Titusville entrance (South Side) of Canaveral national seashore. With all the time I have spent fishing here, I have seen very few alligators. They can be here but I have seen very few. There are sharks too. I have not seen any in this area, but I have friends that have. And I have seen them a few miles north of here in the north part of the lagoon. Don’t worry about them either.
(https://i.imgur.com/JTQdjSK.jpg)
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Thanks, yeah that’s too much driving for us. They are building another cruise ship terminal upwind of our spot. It makes the wind trashy. It’s now the second busiest cruise port in the US.
FYI, the string ray population might be making a comeback. We’ve had 4 people hit within the last 9 months. Jacky just got out of the hospital. 4 days in there on IV antibiotics because of a string ray.
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Dwight, somehow I missed this.
I am riding in deep water. I dont worry about sting rays. Grew up doing the florida shuffle.
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Dwight, sorry to hear about Jacky. Hope she’s ok.
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It’s been the stingray from hell. She had surgery this morning on her foot.
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Best wishes for a speedy recovery for her.
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Still having fun learning this. A couple more sessions in the bag. I can get and ride heel side and stay upwind no problem. I have started to ride toe side now along with trying to get transitions from heel side to toe side. Riding toeside is a bit trickier at the moment. Need more time. So far only rode for about 10 seconds toeside. Tried switching my forward foot and that was a disaster on every level. No direction control. No foil control. Might try and put some time in behind the boat riding opposite foot forward to help that out. Not sure whether I want to switch feet or just ride toeside. You windsurfers are used to that. I have no experience with it and wont try while holding a wing in my hand on foil.
In the winds I have been going in the lagoon with the chop, I have also been playing around with trying to turn on the wind swells and ride them. So far I was able to get about a 3 second ride while putting the wing down.
So I have been working on the pumping the board and the wing to lift off quicker. First, I have listened to Dwight in terms of not trying to just get out and pump. But instead wait for a gust or increase and coordinate the lift off with that. Golden. Saves a lot of energy and increase the fun. For the board, it seems like to get anything for it to pop up on pumping, I have to unweight both feet. A majority of unweighting the front foot but also taking some weight off the rear foot once the board is up seems to help too.
In terms of pumping the wing, I have accidently stumbled upon something that has helped me and really seemed to increase the power in the wing and board speed. Was curious if anyone else has tried it.
I watched this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikwHh_yjmas&feature=emb_title
Somehow I got out of it to make a sine characteristic pattern with the wing. I went back to watch the video to try and point out the exact point where I saw and now I don’t see it. Anyway, by making a sine shape with the wing it has really helped. It helped with my 4m and 5m wings. With lighter wind with the 7m it was a little harder because of the larger wing. Still working it out though.
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I pump big wings like a kite when the wind is light. Let the wing come up over your head a little and flatten, then steer it downwards and sheet in for the power stroke. It's a small movement, bearing only a slight resemblance to a kite pump, but it's how I think of it. I only do that to get up on foil when I'm having a problem. Most wing pumping I do while up on the foil is just to get through a lull, so it's a simple equal-pull pump. If I want to get up higher on the foil I pump the board.
One element of big wings I haven't seen anyone talk about is dumping power in the gusts or when you catch a wave. The easiest way to reduce power is to get the wing up over your head and flat. If you need a little power you just sheet a little bit. If you're catching a wave that doesn't work as well since the wing is still pulling and tends to lift you--exactly what you probably don't want. Grabbing the front handle and holding the wing low works so much better. But it's not the best way to deal with a gust since it brings the wing to zero power and takes to long to get back to a position where you're applying some power.
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Still having fun learning this. A couple more sessions in the bag. I can get and ride heel side and stay upwind no problem. I have started to ride toe side now along with trying to get transitions from heel side to toe side. Riding toeside is a bit trickier at the moment. Need more time. So far only rode for about 10 seconds toeside. Tried switching my forward foot and that was a disaster on every level. No direction control. No foil control. Might try and put some time in behind the boat riding opposite foot forward to help that out. Not sure whether I want to switch feet or just ride toeside. You windsurfers are used to that. I have no experience with it and wont try while holding a wing in my hand on foil.
Sounds like great progress Ninja. Riding offside is worth knowing. It feels incredibly awkward at first. Whose body is this? Give it a few weeks, though and it will work itself out. You already know what to do, you just need to let your mind adjust to it actually happening. :)
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Sounds like great progress Ninja. Riding offside is worth knowing. It feels incredibly awkward at first. Whose body is this? Give it a few weeks, though and it will work itself out. You already know what to do, you just need to let your mind adjust to it actually happening. :)
Totally agree with Admin. I couldn't really do my other side but then it clicked and now it feels almost the same. Takes time, keep going Ninja!
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Thanks for that info Pono, I will try it next time I have the 7m out. Makes sense.
OK, to fix the switch foot thing I went with and Efoil session. Worked wonders. Here is the write up
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,35784.0.html
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So a few more sessions of flying. In terms of the switch stance vs toe side that I am dealing with, I have been focusing on riding that direction a lot more. I had 2 sessions just doing both to see if one took over more than the other. The Lift e-foil definitely made the switch foot more comfortable and not so foreign. Conditions were always in the 20-25 mph range using my 5m wing. Some progressions in terms of feeling more comfortable but did not make any real progress in terms of flying on that side.
I did discover flying downwind. Oh wow is that fun. Did it at the end of the session just to have some flight time. I was turning downwind and starting to ride the small waves in the lagoon while up on the foil.
My last session the wind was light. We have either had no wind or nuking wind. Wind meter was reading 8-15mph winds. I have not had winds like this to really try yet. Decided to use the 7m wing and then on my foil, I switched to the -2 shim. The -2 shim was a little shock at first. I was able to pop right up on it. But then had to adjust to the quicker lift from that shim by keeping a little more weight on that front foot. This session the toe side just seemed to take over. I was able to fly toe side quite consistently with rides getting over a minute long. As much as I wanted to really to try digging upwind on my toeside, I was happy just flying toeside moving downwind. I did try and don’t think I did good with it but I know it will get better with more sessions.
I did have fun while on toe side and started surfing the small waves. Being toe side it was easier to see them. So once I was feeling more comfortable, I started to do turns on the waves. Fun. I was having a few issues with elevation control and seemed to be breaching a lot on the toeside with my body all twisted up. But when I started turning in the waves I breached way less and rode for much longer.
One thing I was curious about whether anyone else does this. When I ride heelside facing the wing, it is no problem to have both hands in an overhand grip. (palms facing down). When I was riding toeside, I found my front hand holding underhand (palm facing up) and my backhand in the overhand position. It just feels comfortable. Do I need to switch to both overhand for my toeside? Does it matter?
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Overhand or underhand...doesn’t matter. Some people believe underhand reduces the risk of carpal tunnel in the forearm. I do underhand on front, overhand at rear. Switch it up and not fire up the forearm tendons.
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Had a fun weekend of some wind. Wind was 20-25 mph. Decided to try riding the smaller 1600 foil with the 5m wing. Usually riding the 2400. Just did a long downwind run. Again 1-2 foot tight chop and just decided to do one long downwind run. Did about a 4 to 4.5 mile run just playing with catching the little wind waves. Had a lot fun doing that. Did not quite let go with the rear hand yet, but let the wing fly horizontal a lot with both hands over head while riding the waves. That made it easy for me grab power if and when I screwed up on the waves and lost the ride and had no wind power. Which happened a lot with the small waves.
Only noticed a little difference in getting up on the 1600 vs the 2400. Granted, I could have popped up a little quicker on the 2400 but I was able to pop up quite regularly with the 1600. Only a few minor hangups. Progressing.
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Are you using the Armstrong CF2400 V1 or CF2400 V2. Thanks, liv2surf
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I am pretty sure it V1. Don't see V2 anywhere on it.