Standup Zone Forum

The Foil Zone => Foil SUP => Topic started by: surfcowboy on January 13, 2020, 05:53:37 PM

Title: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 13, 2020, 05:53:37 PM
And so it begins...

I just ordered a Gong Allvator XL foil with an extra 45 cm mast for myself and my main surf buddy to learn to foil on.

Why you might ask did I choose the Gong?

Partly because no one else will admit to having one and really do a decent review. Same for the Alibaba foils. So frustrating that no one will really tell people whether or not they are a valid option for learning to foil.

Yes, I am 50% sure I will end up owning another foil at some point. (Likely something red that rhymes with ďPraxis BoilsĒ) but I just couldnít see spending that much bread on my starter wing while I figure out what wings do in the first place. The Gong is big and slow and cheap to fix/replace while I learn how shallow the rocks are at my local breaks.

I am 100% sure that I can get a decent return on this if I should sell it.

I am also 100% sure that I will hack and mod the hell out of this thing so I appreciate the modularity of their stuff.

Paid just under $600 shipped to SoCal.

The plan is to share this with my buddy til we decide if we want to keep on. If we dig the Gong, then he will buy a rig and Iíll probably add another wing (pro high aspect?) and likely another, smaller stab which I can ride while I hack the original in various ways. For $600-700 each we can have a few wings, stabs, and masts to experiment with til we know what we are doing or what we really like.

Heís also mainly a proner and much better than me so itís likely we will run different wings in the same conditions.

I am not an ambassador. I have no attachment to being right, and clearly am skeptical of this thing. I also donít have any ego about what gear I own. Hopefully this will be a good source of info beyond ďyeah they workĒ which is all Iíve gotten from English speaking foilers.

If this is the foil version of Jimmy Styks we are all about to know and it will be announced plainly. And if you own one, or have, feel free to contribute to this thread as well.

Iím preparing my friends and family to lose me to #foilbrain. Wish me luck.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: 805StandUp on January 13, 2020, 06:01:47 PM
Don't own a Gong but welcome down this rabbit hole, Cowboy!  All I thought about in the past year or so is foiling... Steve at Hi Tech once told me: "How do you know if someone foils?... Don't worry, they will tell you!"

Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 13, 2020, 06:06:56 PM
Haha, yeah man. I finally got my work life to a place where I could sustain a small injury inflicted by foolishness so whatís more foolish than foiling.

If youíre ď805Ē then for sure we will cross paths. 😉
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: 805StandUp on January 13, 2020, 06:33:59 PM
Lol... interestingly I went a long while (my second session out after downsizing from a 7'4 to 6'0) before injuring myself with the foil so hopefully no injuries for you!  Yes--hopefully I will see you out on the water.  I used to come down to your neck of the woods before I picked up foiling but one of my foil buddies has been telling me I should go back with him at high tide so may at some point.... otherwise maybe will see you in the 805.  Feel free to reach out if I could assist in any way...
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: exiled on January 13, 2020, 10:44:21 PM
I bought the Gong XL and XXL when they first came out. The price at the time was unbeatable and the only other wings that size were the Go Foil Malikos for 3 times the price. No regrets on the purchase.

They are cheap and tough and easy to learn on. Without the XXL I might never have learned how to foil. Its slow and stable and can take off in almost nothing. Not at all high performance, but if you need easy to learn on for cheap, I would recommend them to anyone.

They are also heavy, and the mast is flexy compared to newer foils. Prices on some other foils are starting to creep downwards so the price advantage isn't as great anymore. Neil Pryde foils were on sale for $700 a little while back.

I would like to see some indication they are working on a high aspect wing. It feels like Gong might be slipping on the R&D side after beating most manufacturers to market on large sized wings.

I haven't ridden mine in a few months, but I just rigged up my XL to give it a shot tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Hdip on January 14, 2020, 09:52:37 AM
Best learning advice Iíve had is from Ryan Hurley of west coast foil club. Imagine the rails of your board extending upwards like a box. You stand within that box. Do not lean over and outside the box. Especially to the high side. If you try to over correct to the high side thatís when the foil will be flying straight at you.

The other thing is try to keep the board in the water at first. The foil wants to lift. You have to keep it down.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: bigmtn on January 14, 2020, 03:26:28 PM
I had the XL Gong (also an alibaba copy of a naish).  It will be a good foil to learn on.  You can ride the tiniest waves you can imagine with it.  6mo from now you'll want a different wing, but for starting out it will be great.  The mast was pretty flexible compared to others (go foil, axis, armstrong) but you can't beat the price.  It was also noticeably heavier than the other foils I've used, but for learning you'll be good.  Once you get it down, start trying other peoples gear and see what you like and dont like. 

best advice for starting: choose tiny mushy waves, and if you start to lose your balance, don't try to save it, just shoot the foil away from you. 
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 14, 2020, 06:47:15 PM
Hey guys, thanks. This is about what Iíve heard.

Couple of things.

One, they now have 4 high aspect wings to compliment their regular. Check the new ďproĒ wings on the site. Iíll 100% be adding the high aspect XL or XXL for downwinders once Iím stable. These are also reported to be lighter and they float.

They also have a carbon mast, though itís expensive. But still, you can put together a crazy quiver now for not too much bread.

Iím already working on a design for a tail wing adapter to test other stabilizers and angles. The Zone and Instagram have taught me that hacking tails is the second most popular thing to do with a foil other than riding them lol.

The tips are huge and very welcome. Iíll be posting technique questions and also already have had Zoners reach out to meet up. Foilers are as friendly as SUPers. Actually they are mostly SUPers lol. When I built the Cowboy Foil I learned a good bit about starting. Gonna start a thread on a Kalama tip in fact.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Fishman on January 14, 2020, 06:57:00 PM
I went with the Aviator mainly because I like expermenting. The prices on the piece parts are really good so mixing it up with 4 different tails and a few different wings didn't break the bank.

I don't see myself getting rid of it any time soon. But if I surfed a lot and had to carry it for long distances I would consider another foil. I'm sure you can find foils 3 or even 4 pounds lighter.

If you're a big guy you might consider modding the wing connection point. Most people just shiim it but adding a third screw from the top will minimize any movement. Just be sure to tighten the two bottom screws before tightening the top screw.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 14, 2020, 06:58:01 PM
Gong XXL Pro flat water dock starts and pumping vid.

https://youtu.be/dIvBT4Jn-Iw
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 14, 2020, 07:00:45 PM
Thx Fishman. Colas reports that they actually drill and thread all the way through the fuselage now so if you just drill the top of the wing you can add that screw without tapping anything.

Seems like lots of mods and such out there now. And while they slept for a year or so, they are turning out lots of stuff now.

Have you tried the kite stab with any of your wings?
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Fishman on January 15, 2020, 03:09:37 PM
Yeah I use the kite stab but I haven't surfed with it. Just on a lake behind a boat and winging which work good in those for that. I'm think surfing would be harder to learn with but more fun once you dail it in.
 
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Fishman on January 15, 2020, 03:18:20 PM
Photo
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 15, 2020, 06:43:59 PM
Interesting one there. Is that yours? Nice welds. Mine wouldnít look that clean. lol

Also, if youíre worried about flex, the Naish masts fit Gong so a used Naish would be an option too. As the parts stack up on craigslist things are gonna get weird Iíll bet lol.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Fishman on January 16, 2020, 04:00:30 PM
 I can't do pretty weld ether. After it was welded I used JB to make it look better. I made that to use with the 80 or 90 mast.

I believe the Naish and Takuma were exactly the same extruded Al mast. I wonder if there newer Naish mast are any different.

Also took my extra fusalge to the drill press. For the most part completly necessary but I have to do something with my free time.

Colas's idea sounds good but my fusalge were NOT drilled/threaded  all the way through. I would if the newer fuselage are now drilled and threaded all the way?  I guess youdrill though the existing holes and step up the hardware size.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 16, 2020, 06:20:20 PM
Yes, apparently the new fuse is drilled through and threaded. But the wing has to be drilled on top still. Iíll report when I get mine in.

The lighter drilled fuse is a good idea. Are you filling those with foam or something to keep the drag down? As I think about it, black duct tape would work too.

Iím interested to see the weight on the Pro wings. That may be the game changer.

As to the masts, people reported that the aging was flexy but Iíve never heard that about the Naish. Hmm... I wonder if the extra $500 made Naish feel stiffer or if they are different. Word is that the Gong mast is lighter so that would track with the flex.

Also we have to remember that metal objects can be made in the same factory on the same mold and be of differing alloys so they may be different.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: exiled on January 16, 2020, 06:29:47 PM
Gong runs bigger wings on the same masts. That big XXL wing will flex a mast a lot more than the L.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Fishman on January 16, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
Yep, I used mylar tape over holes on the main part and some foam and gorilla glue in the holes in the tail section. It only shaved off 1lb, but the core is now buoyant so there's that. I don't think it makes much differnce except maybe when pumping.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 16, 2020, 09:03:41 PM
Yo, a pound is like 10% of that thing right?  How deep did you go? (Warming up drill press...)
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Fishman on January 17, 2020, 05:01:17 PM
It took more time to do than it might be worth doing. The holes are 1/2" and drilled all the way through. Staggered top holes and side hole overlap inside so the center is hollow. The ends were also drilled out as much as I could without interfering threaded holes. Laying it out, predrilling,... It pretty much took all day.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 17, 2020, 06:53:10 PM
Yeah, I may just play with making a carbon one.

Iíve been jonesing to make something new. Starting a set of foil boards soon. Might have to play with a carbon fuse and see what kind of mess I can make.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 21, 2020, 07:56:04 AM
Got my notice that package is clearing customs and will be here on Wed. Thatís 9 days in transit.

One note, the tracking from France stops when it leaves (Last Wednesday). The US tracking doesnít start til it gets to customs, so thereís about 5 of the 9 days where you donít see progress. I wanted to email and ask (or gripe) but I figured I should just give it more than 5 days to cross the Atlantic and clear paperwork.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: 805StandUp on January 21, 2020, 08:27:12 AM
The anticipation would be killing me...
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: SanoSlatchSup on January 21, 2020, 03:12:43 PM
Got my notice that package is clearing customs and will be here on Wed. Thatís 9 days in transit.

One note, the tracking from France stops when it leaves (Last Wednesday). The US tracking doesnít start til it gets to customs, so thereís about 5 of the 9 days where you donít see progress. I wanted to email and ask (or gripe) but I figured I should just give it more than 5 days to cross the Atlantic and clear paperwork.
Yes, it's an excruciating "dead period" when no one knows wtf your wings (in my case) are between the time they leave France and - in my experience - when they're sitting in customs...which was almost a week for us.

During that time everyone washes their hands of it....GONG said they shipped them, and it's in the shipper's hands, La Poste (French post office) said that once they get them on the plane it's not their problem, and the USPS says they don't take responsibility for them until they're out of customs...and trying to get anything from US Customs is like squeezing water out of a rock.  >:(

Good luck, and I hope your package fairs better than ours did in its journey (this is still in the USPS truck I took as proof of the damage just in case)...
(https://i.imgur.com/mBPujob.jpg?1)
...fortunately, nothing inside was worse for the wear, and tear it took getting here.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 21, 2020, 07:19:40 PM
Iíll report in. I donít have a boat in LA to drag me yet and I still need to finish my shim for my converted SUP. Patience is one of those benefits that comes with age.

Iíll bet I assemble and disassemble it a few times out in the garage though.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 23, 2020, 05:46:53 PM
Got the foil today. (A day later than the USPS originally estimated, but a day earlier than their revised date. 10 days order to door. What a world we live in.

I'll try to post some unboxing stuff.

It looks great, weighs a bit less than I thought it would. I think y'all scared me and I've not felt any truly light foils yet either.  But man, the fuselage is heavy for what it is. Solid as a rock. That's the first thing to get carbonized if/when I can.

Been working all afternoon so didn't get to really fondle it properly. I'm sure I'll bolt it all together in the living room tonight.

Should address this for people considering things. Value-wise, the Gong, shipped to the US is not cheaper than a used foil. So if you live where there are used foils or can source them, that's best. I'm seeing good foils for almost or under what I paid.

However, I got 2 masts and if I want to add a wing, they are far cheaper, even with shipping, than most. I'm not sure Gong will stay as competitive in the states unless their numbers here justify storing them and shipping them from a US fulfillment center. (Amazon?) But let's not tank the US foil market just yet, right?

Also, I'm anxious to compare this to other foils. And then I'm almost certain to buy a high aspect wing before long. (Once I learn to surf this thing.) If they keep iterating like they've done with the Wind Wings then they should be able to compete for sure.

Watch this space for how long #foilbrain takes to take hold and I have 3 of these things lol.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: obxDave on January 23, 2020, 11:34:42 PM
Already have about 2 months on a Gong XL pro (mostly winging). Rode the standard Gong XL twice but IMHO the Standard Gong hydrofoil wings are just draggy and slow compared to the pro versions without much low end advantage. The Al masts are definitely flexi, the rig is heavy, the front wing/fuselage fit is a wee bit loose in my case (easily fixed), but I still think itís a excellent value for a first SUP/wing foil rig.

 I also have a Moses 790 rig (along with a W1100 wing and 82cm mast showing up next week :) ). Moses is much lighter and  stiffer,... and higher $ as youíd expect. The 790 is fast and carvy without any of the mast wobble. Iíll probably put the Gong rig up for sale at an attractive price if I like the 1100. I already use the Moses 633 for kite foiling so for me itís a easy upgrade choice =>  less repetitive gear.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on January 24, 2020, 09:08:11 PM
Obx thx man. Yeah I actually was just about to post up the weights and such. Interesting to know what a Naish weights, for example.

On mine the wing/fuse connect seems tight but mast/fuse connect needs shimming.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on February 08, 2020, 07:18:32 PM
Went out for my get my feet wet paddle today, just paddling to feel the foil, no waves. It was strange and nerve wracking at first but actually, once I got all the nightmares from here and other beginners out of my head, it was pretty fun.

Hard to paddle straight without fins, but I managed. Getting in and out was easier than Iíd worried about. Itís actually pretty well behaved as long as you follow the usual rules. About the same hassle as my original 30Ēx10í6Ē SUP (big for my size.)

Once I wore out and paddled in, I dropped my paddle and leash and took it out in the shallows to see the thing fly. I pushed it back and forth and was mesmerized by being able to push it and have it take off and cruise a few feet without me. After a few passes, I did some hop ons on my belly and felt the lift. Physics... unbelievable.

Iím off to San Diego next week, Iíll get some boat time and probably start paddling into baby waves, if there any. If not, Iíll paddle in the marina and surf my foamie in decent waves. Itís started. 
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: exiled on February 08, 2020, 07:44:38 PM
So I've been running the Gong XL (old school) on my 6'0 Blue Planet Easy Foiler prone board (69L) for the last few weeks. Its mostly been waist high or less out a White Plains: 1ft, 10 sec or so. I'm in the 200 lbs.+ club. So easy, so much fun. You can take off on the rollers with the longboarders and just go forever. I haven't been able to pump back out for a second wave, but have been able to pump through flat sections and double ups. I haven't been doing any hard turns or anything, maybe I'll realize how limited I am when I move to something higher performance, but I certainly feel like I got my money's worth.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Wetstuff on February 09, 2020, 07:19:17 AM
Cowboy,  ...perhaps posted earlier. "just paddling to feel the foil, no waves."   What board were you on and how do you tip the scales?  Thanks. 

Jim
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on February 09, 2020, 10:00:38 AM
7í4Ē x 29Ē Simmons SUP. Iím early 50ís 5í8Ē and a strapping 140lbs.

Didnít get any lift while paddling but man, when going through small waves, the suck out will tip you pretty hard sideways pulling on the foil. That was cool to feel.

Also, I wanted to get used to the secondary stability. Itís pretty good but I also was mindful to bail when it tipped a bit, just to train myself to not try to fix things and get away for when I start to foil waves.

Seeing how slow it flies I canít wait to get behind the boat.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Fishman on February 10, 2020, 07:52:44 AM
I drilled the holes for my old wings to secure better to fuselage like the newer fuselage and pro clear wings now come. I didn't see any details on the Gong forum and the translation isn't always the best, so...

You can buy a a Drill Bushing 5mm outside diameter, with a 2mm inside diameter. The bushing slips in the threaded hole and allows you to drill a perfect hole and protect your threads. 

*Assemble the wing to the fuselage. Take out rear screw while front screw is still tight holding it together, insert the bushing and drill the 2mm hole pilot hole through the fuselage and wing.
*Dismantle. Then back side drill the fuselage with 5mm just deep enough not to touch the threads.
*Run tap from the threaded front side, all the way through.  Taps are a little fragile so do this slowly back and forth not to break the tap.
* Drill the wing's pilot hole form 2mm to 6mm then counter sink. (countersink just the minimal amount)
 
I found 6mm cap screws x 12mm long, work good for the top screw.  (6mm x 16mm are to long and bottom out before tightening)

https://www.mcmaster.com/press-fit-drill-bushings 
(longer is better if you can find one longer and they have different Inside diameter if you don't have a 2mm bit.)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RKKJGNF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(if you know were to a kit like this with High torque bits post a link)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002KSEIEY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Fishman on February 10, 2020, 07:56:51 AM
7í4Ē x 29Ē Simmons SUP. Iím early 50ís 5í8Ē and a strapping 140lbs.

Didnít get any lift while paddling but man, when going through small waves, the suck out will tip you pretty hard sideways pulling on the foil. That was cool to feel.

Also, I wanted to get used to the secondary stability. Itís pretty good but I also was mindful to bail when it tipped a bit, just to train myself to not try to fix things and get away for when I start to foil waves.

Seeing how slow it flies I canít wait to get behind the boat.
Looking forward to hearing how the XL wing works for a 140lbs guy.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on February 11, 2020, 01:44:09 AM
Fishman, thanks for the drill bushing tip. Iíve got the newer on so Iíll just have to drill the wing but a bushing will help me keep it centered and true.

Iím expecting the XL to be a lot of wing for me and to only use it while learning or in small waves (one of my main drivers.) but Iím resigned to a quiver of wings lol
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on June 25, 2020, 07:59:19 PM
Bringing this back to life. I want to keep this going with info on the new wings.

Iíve been learning and Iím blown away by how stable the standard XL is. So far, no complaints at my weight about the stiffness but Iíll keep an eye on it.

Iím wondering what wing to move down to as I start getting better and wanting to ride bigger waves (above knee high lol)

The standard M seems like an option but if Iím not winging should I consider the L pro as a step down in size? Itíll be a while but Iím curious about how you guys have found those.

Iím assuming Iíll end up with 3 foils on this platform. Surf XL for small waves, something smaller for larger waves (L pro, or a M of pro or surf?) and then finally something giant and silly for downwind (veloce XL, XXL or surf XXL?)

Give me your thoughts to keep me busy in between sessions and help folks who are comparing stuff. Iím 140lbs remember so use your kidís specs lol.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Solent Foiler on June 26, 2020, 02:41:53 PM
The standard M seems like an option but if Iím not winging should I consider the L pro as a step down in size? Itíll be a while but Iím curious about how you guys have found those.
I've borrowed and ridden the L Pro on a wing once (but waiting for my own Pro L to arrive in the next week or two) and had a great time on it. My previous foil was the Naish Jet 1650 (again for winging which I sold) and I found the step down to be entirely manageable. Smooth ease is how I would describe it especially compared to my Naish Thrust L which is what I've been riding while I've been waiting for the Pro. The Thrust is wild - sooo manoeuvrable, super fun when you get it right, but punishes mistakes hard.

I'm about the same weight as you too, so hopefully some useful feedback. Will let you know more when it and the Pro XL arrives and I can do a comparison.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on June 26, 2020, 05:49:52 PM
Thx man thatís great. Iím really curious as to what it would take to downwind here in SoCal. Iíve heard of guys doing it on Maliko 200ís. Iíd think Iíd want silly big (XXL?) but donít know if our wind and max waist high swell would even need high aspect speed. It ainít Hawaii.

Keep us posted on the Pro.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Hdip on June 26, 2020, 07:57:26 PM
Itís possible. French foiler used to do it. If you get serious about learning Iíll go with you so we can shuttle but want to do it real bad.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on July 26, 2020, 09:47:16 AM
Wanna wake up this thread. There are clearly a lot of Gongs out there now. Letís talk about specific wings for those of us wanting to add to the quiver.

Iím on the XL and Iím seeing that it can catch a nearly breaking or broken wave at knee high (1.5í or .5 m) and I think at 140lbs I will be able to keep it in the water eventually up to maybe waist high.

Iím trying to figure out my next step down for mushy waist to chest conditions which I get all the time here. Would love suggestions, specifically Med or L and Surf or Pro?

List up what wings you have, your weight, and how you use them. Letís build a little dataset here.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on July 26, 2020, 10:13:27 AM
Oh, and in the down column I found out that my 65cm mast has stripped threads out of the box in the middle screw (of 3) on the fuselage side. I didnít check it when I got the foil as I was using the 45cm mast.

Iíll probably report it to Gong but not press for a return after this long and due to the shipping hassles. Iíll see if they will offer a discount on my next purchase or something.

Iíll either run it with 2 screws, or might try tapping it, but it feels loose. If that doesnít work maybe drill and insert a helicoil.

Iím sure Iím buying another mast anyway the next time someone near me orders from them.

We might need to set up a SoCal Gong group to buy together and get shipments cheaper as Iím sure a few of us are due some new wings and donít wanna pay $100 to ship a single wing (or whatever it costs now.)
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Thatspec on July 27, 2020, 07:14:07 AM
I recall OBX Dave mentioning 200 euro to ship an (XL?) Veloce though maybe there were other items in the order. The really amazing thing is that still makes it $200 less than a new Axis 1150 ::)

My gorgeous Gong 100cm carbon mast has been sitting in my living room as art for months now with a Large pro and 40 tail, I just love looking at it. Only kite foiled that setup a couple of times in the early spring and it was fantastic. Probably put 100+ hours on a Large pro and Alu setup so I know the wing well. Finally tried it winging the other day but I only spent half an hour on it as conditions were a brutal 15-40+ with the 3.6 Naish. I was encouraged enough though to continue experimenting, I'm 90Kg and it popped right up so my main concern is resolved, can't really comment on much more than that yet other than it turned nicely and didn't glide as well as the Axis 1010, nothing unexpected. Just sold my untried XL Pro to Fishman so guess I'm committed now.

There is one thread on kiteform here;
https://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2407082 with impressions of the Veloce M and Pro M.
I have the Pro M but haven't tried it yet. Have it for sale too so obviously I'm on the fence.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: PonoBill on July 27, 2020, 07:37:15 AM
Cowboy, helicoils work well in aluminum, though if you want a more permanent repair you might look at some of the solid inserts. They're all quite a bit more expensive than helicoils though. I like Timeserts, which provide a repair that will handle torque higher than the original threads, and I've never had one pull or turn out, but buying the install kit is a bit eye-watering, like 80 bucks for a single diameter.

Another possibility is tapping to a slightly larger SAE thread. I've repaired 6mm by tapping to 1/4-20, which is a bit of a PITA since you have to remember you have one odd screw--you could tap all three to 1/4-20 and take advantage of easier access to stainless SAE screws in the USA. The size is close enough that you don't need to drill the holes out, just run the tap in with plenty of aluminum thread cutting lube and good tapping technique (rotate half a turn in, back one turn out to clear the chip). If they are 8mm you're best off with an insert. 8mm is slightly larger than 5/16 and a 3/8-16 has a major diameter of .3750 which is a fairly big jump from the .314 major diameter of 8MM.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Piros on July 27, 2020, 05:40:48 PM
Another alternative is too simply weld the holes up and re tap them , easy for me I own an Alu fabrication company but the whole process only takes about 30 mins. I often modify the tail section of an Alu Fuse to fit other rear wings like the Uni or Signature (M8 > M6). Also very easy to cut and shorten an Alu fuse.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on July 27, 2020, 08:24:41 PM
Thx guys. In a moment that you both will surely relate to, I went out to the garage after posting, grabbed a 6mm helicoil and repaired it in 10 min.

Iím going to investigate inserts. Iím no stranger to the weirdly expensive single purpose device/tool lol.  But Iím sure this (3rd) screw will hold fine for my narrow ass. That said, Iím figuring with this much threaded aluminum around Iíll be doing some repairs for sure. I love the SAE tapping idea too. I have a tap and die set handy should it ever go south. That will also guarantee that I never assemble my foil with the correct screws ever again lol. I already mix and match lengths way too often.

Piros, I canít imagine what sort of tomfoolery you get up to with all those fab toys around. Iíve been looking around here for a decent machine shop to hack things that are beyond my skills. If shipping prices drop this Gong stuff will be ripe for mods. Their aluminum bits are dirt cheap.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on July 27, 2020, 08:40:34 PM
Thatspec, trying to summarize here.

Pro L is 770mm, and about 1200cm projected. It flies a 90kg rider. Good to know. What kinds of speeds does it take would you say? Anything will lift anything with enough go behind it, a wise man once said.

The Axis 1010 is of course 1010mm and about 1400cm projected so that makes sense that glide is less. There also a hole in the Gong line around there. But they say that this was by design since they go by rider weight and such over raw numbers. (Said on Gong forum.)

The carbon mast looks rock solid to me. Nice upgrade.

About that Medium. Fly it when you can. Iím wondering if thatís my ďwaist to chestĒ size surf wing at 63kg.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: SanoSlatchSup on July 27, 2020, 11:39:41 PM
Here ya go cowboy, maybe this might help you with comparisons of Gong's wings to those that Axis is offering.

The numbers came from the two companies' websites, so any funny numbers in a cell or two you'd have to ask the company about wrt any possible typos or funny calcs on their part.

Hope that helps some.

Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: supunk on July 29, 2020, 05:08:52 PM
I use Gong XXL pro and XXL Veloce wings for wingfoiling and really rate them. I run them with a 90cm Axis mast conversion and a 45cm kite stab. The pro is amazing for light wind wingdinging and will hover at crazy low speeds. The Veloce is my present go too good wind foil with great speed and control. I only got the Veloce wing last week but I am blown away by the quality and ride. I have had many Gong wings and boards over the last few years but have no affiliation with them. I struggled to load vids but I have a few clips and pics on my instagram account @chrislucas735 if you are interested. 😀
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Fishman on July 29, 2020, 08:13:26 PM
I use Gong XXL pro and XXL Veloce wings for wingfoiling and really rate them. I run them with a 90cm Axis mast conversion and a 45cm kite stab. The pro is amazing for light wind wingdinging and will hover at crazy low speeds. The Veloce is my present go too good wind foil with great speed and control. I only got the Veloce wing last week but I am blown away by the quality and ride. I have had many Gong wings and boards over the last few years but have no affiliation with them. I struggled to load vids but I have a few clips and pics on my instagram account @chrislucas735 if you are interested. 😀

I really like your "Doodad"... Wait, that just sounds wrong... Okay, the custom Doodad you made to fit the Axis mast on the Hellvator/Allvator really looks good.   Without a actual doodad to measure id guess we would probably be off on the finish product. Did you make any extra Doodads?

This is the third way iv'e seen in adapting the Axis mast to a Gong Fuselage, nice.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on July 29, 2020, 09:25:07 PM
YO guys, supunk is the king of the chop shop.

His insta feed has some amazing franken foil creations.

My hat is off. I need to befriend a machinist.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: supunk on July 29, 2020, 11:09:02 PM
Thanks surfcowboy . No spare doodads Iím afraid but they are an easy job for a machinist. The converter fuse is listed on the Gong website, so is easy to get hold of. I did tell my mate when he was making the doodad that we could sell a few of these. The Gong/Axis combo is not lightweight but the 19mm Axis mast is super stiff and it works really well. I like the look of the Gong carbon mast/fuse but like to be able to run different length masts. The conversion moves the mast 5mm further back on the fuse which is not an issue.  I have a couple more frankenfoil combo rigs coming, to get rid of the noodle masts on my other foils. Message me if you want any more details of the doodad? Foil safe😀
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: exiled on July 29, 2020, 11:39:35 PM
Were you the guy who put a gong fuse on a takuma mast too?
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: supunk on July 30, 2020, 12:06:58 AM
No not me, but one of my projects is to put an Axis mast on a Takuma LOL foil. I really like the stiff mast for SUP foiling. Itís not an issue when prone. A Gong mast should already fit a Takuma fuse😀
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: supunk on July 30, 2020, 12:25:33 AM
I got the idea for the Axis/Gong rig from obxDave who also posts here. Big thanks Dave as I love my new setup👍👍👍
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Thatspec on July 30, 2020, 08:12:46 AM
Supunk, what's your all up weight (apologies if you've mentioned that already)? The XXL's are huge so I'm assuming over 100kg?
I was thinking the XL Veloce would be my 1st choice for winging (90Kg) but am considering an XXL Veloce for another foray into downwind sup foiling (1st attempts failed miserably). I'm VERY happy with my Axis 1010 but It's hard to justify over $700 bucks for an Axis 1150 as an experiment when I can get three Gong wings for the same price ::) The XXL Veloce is pretty close in aspect ratio to the 1150, 7.7 vs 6.3, with considerably larger area but much lower volume. Unfortunately it'll be months before I get back to the EU and cheap shipping....
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Rastaman3030 on July 30, 2020, 08:50:03 AM
SurfCowboy asked me to copy over a post I made in the Wind Wing section about my experience with the Gong XXL Pro foil wing:

"After reading everyone on the Zone raving about Axis I was convinced I needed to ďupgradeĒ from my Gong XXL Pro foil setup. In reality itís a fantastic foil...early take off, great glide, carves like a dream. Thereís really no logical reason to upgrade and I worry that switching to Axis, Armstrong, or Moses might actually be a downgrade in some respects as the Gong has no noticeable weak areas for me personally. So thanks to OBX for saving me the expense of buying a completely new Axis foil setup (was going to get the 1150).

The XXL Pro is a really good design by Gong in my opinion. Itís sort of a mid-aspect wing thatís medium thickness, but it carves really nice and is plenty fast, yet forgiving. Now Iím trying to get my hands on the XL size!"
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: supunk on July 30, 2020, 09:34:33 AM
Hi thatspec. I am around 85kg but wearing a full suit all the time so probably around 90kg all in. The Veloce is a thin wing so needs some grunt to get up. I was considering getting an XL for SUP foiling but am going to try the XXL first.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on July 30, 2020, 06:37:08 PM
Thx Rasta and all you guys. Weíre building a nice set of data here about what you can do with these things and what wings are what.

Iím still curious as to what my step up wing will be. At some point I need to get something I can keep in the water on a wave with some push. Thereís that sweet M Pro eyeing me from the classifieds but Iím wondering if I should just go slower/bigger? Having never lived through the days when the Takuma 100 and Kai were the only foils I may have incorrect ideas about how much lift I need. The M Pro looks about the same as the Kai size-wise.

Super curious to hear a SUP downwind report on the Veloce and Pro wings too. Post up when youíve made a run. Iím determined to get my paddle power up to where I can get into an unbreaking wave.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Fishman on July 31, 2020, 12:22:34 AM
Thatspec, It looks like the Veloce wingspan/chord ratiois not that high from the specs on Gong web site
XXL 5.1   
XL  4.7   
L  4.6
M 4.4
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: supunk on July 31, 2020, 12:52:43 AM
SurfCowboy asked me to copy over a post I made in the Wind Wing section about my experience with the Gong XXL Pro foil wing:

"After reading everyone on the Zone raving about Axis I was convinced I needed to ďupgradeĒ from my Gong XXL Pro foil setup. In reality itís a fantastic foil...early take off, great glide, carves like a dream. Thereís really no logical reason to upgrade and I worry that switching to Axis, Armstrong, or Moses might actually be a downgrade in some respects as the Gong has no noticeable weak areas for me personally. So thanks to OBX for saving me the expense of buying a completely new Axis foil setup (was going to get the 1150).

The XXL Pro is a really good design by Gong in my opinion. Itís sort of a mid-aspect wing thatís medium thickness, but it carves really nice and is plenty fast, yet forgiving. Now Iím trying to get my hands on the XL size!"

Agree with you Rastaman about the XXL Pro :)
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Thatspec on July 31, 2020, 12:09:18 PM
Thatspec, It looks like the Veloce wingspan/chord ratio is not that high from the specs on Gong web site
XXL 5.1   
XL  4.7   
L  4.6
M 4.4

This calculation they offer is used by nobody else I've seen and gives a deceptively low number unfortunately. Typically aspect ratio is calculated as wingspan squared divided by the surface area (cm and cm2). Axis uses projected area which makes sense to me but I suspect the true formula uses actual area.
The 6.3x / 1 for the XXL Veloce was what I calculated from that formula as a way to compare it to the Axis 1150.

Speaking of high aspect, have you guys seen the video of Gunnar winging on the Moses 800 (it's about 10/1 ar if I recall, or maybe that's the 1000)? It was on youtube pretty sure.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Fishman on July 31, 2020, 06:33:16 PM
Thatspec, It looks like the Veloce wingspan/chord ratio is not that high from the specs on Gong web site
XXL 5.1   
XL  4.7   
L  4.6
M 4.4

This calculation they offer is used by nobody else I've seen and gives a deceptively low number unfortunately. Typically aspect ratio is calculated as wingspan squared divided by the surface area (cm and cm2). Axis uses projected area which makes sense to me but I suspect the true formula uses actual area.
The 6.3x / 1 for the XXL Veloce was what I calculated from that formula as a way to compare it to the Axis 1150.

Speaking of high aspect, have you guys seen the video of Gunnar winging on the Moses 800 (it's about 10/1 ar if I recall, or maybe that's the 1000)? It was on youtube pretty sure.
Good to know,THX

PS,  Got the wing today looks great. ;D
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Rastaman3030 on July 31, 2020, 09:48:02 PM
One major problem Iím having with my Gong XXL Pro is that the screws get loose on the front wing after winging for about 20 minutes or so. Itís no fun to ride with a wobbly front wing! Iíve tried Ted-Gel and Iíve even added a top screw, but neither have made a difference. Does anyone else have this issue? Iím about ready to Loctite the front wing to the fuselage, but transporting it will be much harder if I do that.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on July 31, 2020, 10:27:47 PM
Have you got the top screw? If not, drill it man.

https://www.gong-galaxy.com/en/magazine/news-en/how-to-make-the-upper-hole-on-the-allvator-front-wing/
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: supunk on August 01, 2020, 12:00:01 AM
On my XXL pro I donít use a 3rd screw I just use a long screw to go right through the foil with a washer and nyloc nut on. Not very aero but the pro is not a fast wing and it works a treat. On the Veloce I have started using loctite threadlock (not as good). Itís a universal problem with the big wings I think. I will be interested to know if anyone has found a better solution? 😀
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Fishman on August 01, 2020, 07:28:15 AM
I wouldn't think the bottom screws should ever come loose, but i could see the top screw coming loose. I'd make sure those bottom screws are good and tight before tightening the top. Adding a fourth short top screw could also be a option. Shimming the top of the fuse connection with a strip or 2 of Mylar tape might also help.

Man the shipping quotes seems like they are taking forever.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Rastaman3030 on August 01, 2020, 07:49:59 AM
Surfcowboy: Yes, I added the top screw and unfortunately it didn't help at all.

Supunk: Do you notice any negative performance from the nut? Or any excessive humming/vibrating? If not, I might try this route instead of Loctite.

Fishman: Tell me about it! I've reached out to Gong 3 times about ordering the new Veloce wing and they won't get back to me. I mostly love their gear, but they desperately need a United States distributor or they need to streamline their international shipping options.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on August 01, 2020, 08:56:46 AM
Adding this excellent Gong Veloce XL review here for reference.

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,36348.0.html
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: surfcowboy on August 01, 2020, 09:04:23 AM
Rasta thatís tough. Iím playing with better shimming for the fuselage. Iíve got my mast to fuse connection tight but I end up replacing it a lot. Trying some epoxy methods and will report back.

The nut sounds good actually too.

Iím considering ordering a quiver of wings to keep shipping down and selling off what I donít need/like. We might end up with a Zone-Gong US buying club to deal with this since so many of us here are on the platform now.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: supunk on August 01, 2020, 09:22:53 AM
Hi Rastaman. I have not noticed any negatives with the nut/bolt on the XXL pro. With the Veloce I got a very slight hum at high speeds and had a couple of episodes of cavitation at top speed. I was uncertain if these occurred because I breached a wing tip or if the nut was the issue. On my instagram there is a clip where you can hear the hum if you are interested (@chrislucas735). I have since started using the loctite with the Veloce and didnít notice any hum but was not running at such high speeds. Itís not as good a fix though. Shiming the wing on the fuse so that itís a nice fit helps as well.
Title: Re: Gong Allvator - Review thread
Post by: Thatspec on August 01, 2020, 09:30:27 AM

PS,  Got the wing today looks great. ;D

Good to hear Fishman :)
Will be curious to know what you think of it.
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