Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: lopezwill on December 29, 2019, 05:08:11 PM
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Is there any new sup developments for surfing larger waves?
I'm not talking huge Mavericks or Hawaiian big wave but something near this size.
Go to 16:00 -- 21:00 for wave size.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=58&v=ejZxt5Zwe44&feature=emb_logo
I've used several different Sup boards for the larger California surf we get in the winter and every board seems to have drawbacks for me. I'm 6'4" and weigh 225 for reference.
I've tried the old, All rounder, Paddle Surf Hawaii 10'6' 29" across and that board worked good but it's since been destroyed. They are very hard to find now.
The PSH 12 footer is a great board but at 12 feet was dangerous getting caught inside. It was just to big.
Had the 10'6" PSH gun ripper which worked alright but at 32" wide was too wide and became dangerous in off shore winds and sucking type reef waves.
I'm currently riding a 9'10" 31 across 140 volume, Laird Surrator which works ok but when the surf gets around 10 to 12 foot faces starts to get squirrly on the bottom turns. Even having changed the fins to huge quads and thrusters.? My search continues.
Now I'm thinking about a couple year old 10'2" Jimmy Lewis Stun gun but that board is also 32 across?
I realize the board I'm describing is a niche board but I thought I would just put it out there? 8) I think it should be near 150 or more volume, pintail, and very stable.?
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The 10'6x29 PSH gun ripper remains my favorite shape for that size wave, but the construction of those bamboo PSH boards left a lot to be desired.
HYPR NALU out of the Big Island makes some SUP guns with really nice wood finishes. Their graphic bug me, but that's just aesthetics.
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Yes. The PSH gun ripper is a great board but at my hight and weight was way to unstable.
Funny you mention the Hyper Nalu. I was thinking the 11'6" gun but I have not herd any rider info about the board in large surf.
Thanks for the info 8)
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What about Jimmy Lewis Bombora? Seems it is made for those types of waves.
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You could have Sunova make you an 11' Search / Point Break. https://sunovasurfboards.com/en/sup/allround
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,34536.0.html
or
NSP
https://www.nspsurfboards.com/product/slx-super-x/
Both quality construction
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I think the 9'5 or 9'11 Sunova Insanity might do the trick
I'd check with CREEK on the specifics
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
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I throw another one into the mix.
The waves from (time wise) 16:00 - 21:00 can be handled by a Sup Sports "One World" with your personal specs of 6'4" and 225 pounds. A production made One World is 11'1" x 30" x 4.6" @ 200 liters comes with 3 fin Furtures boxes.
Since I'm a small framed guy at 5'8" and 144 pounds, I wanted a custom built One World and finally came up with a perfect fit for me at 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 liters with 5 fin Futures boxes, pulled in nose, 60/40 rails (rails are thinned out too), two vent plugs (because Texas summers are brutal heat wise), two leash plugs, pintail, comfy deck pad with a kick pad, offset Blue Planet Sup Grip handle and Ballis Tech construction.
I asked WarDog (Warren Thomas) what size wave can this board handle? Warren told me that is up to the skill level of the rider. I'll post a link to the One World and you'll see there is a photo of someone surfing a very large wave. If anything, it should get your juices flowing. The page will load slowly because that page has lots of photos on it. BTW, once on the page, the orange One World you'll see at that time, without the deck pad installed, is mine.
https://supsports.com/standup-paddle-boards/one-world-series/
At my height and weight, I surf my 11' 1" One World as a 4 fin quad setup with (2, 5") and (2, 4") performance fins. And as a bonus, I did take a photo of her on our private freshwater lake.
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I thought I needed a longer board for the bigger stuff (like in the video), but found that smaller was better at the increased speed. It was hard to find the sweet spot when at speed on a 10'x28" wide board. Too far back and it slaps, too far forward, and it doesn't want to go on a rail and tends to slide. The ticket was something 9' and under, 28"ish wide for some stability, and a pulled in tail with very thin and sharp rails. I'm 5'10" and 85kg. The paddle speed on a board like this is still way faster than I can paddle one of my 8' prone guns, and I don't have the loss of control that comes with the longer, wide boards.
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Hypr Hawaii do guns in:
9’6”
10’6”
11’6”
12’6”
14ft
So you should be able to find one to suit.
You can order them without the dragon graphics. I’ve just bought two double-carbon full PVC sandwich wood-stringer and S-glass reinforced 14ft guns that have minimal graphics (no dragons) and are very strong, and have a bit of weight to them to cope with offshores and smooth out the ride. They surf better than many 11ft SUPs I’ve tried, incredibly. The 11-6 gun is a very user-friendly board and surfs smaller than it is. The 10-6 is super-high performance for that size. I haven’t tried the 9-6, but it might be a little above my pay grade in the super-rippy choppy conditions I surf. But this guy has no problems at all with it, and he’s no flyweight, so I guess at the end of the day it’s all about how good you are...
https://youtu.be/iQtiVV_39ZU
The unique rails and bottom contours of these boards make them surf FAST, and not really like other boards. But you’ll need to try for yourself to see what I mean.
They come in a variety of constructions, and you can order to suit, as long as you are willing to wait for it (and pay a bit extra of course for bespoke). The basic applewood construction is very beautiful though, and strong and durable, so it might be all that most people need. You wouldn’t want the super-strong double-carbon construction I ordered unless you live in a cool climate or were willing to be very diligent with using the bag it comes with: Pure carbon reveal gets very hot in bright sunlight. It sure is beautiful though, so “cool climate spec” is fine for me here in the UK, and the layup feels so strong and stiff that you could knock a house down with it :)
Just contact the owner of Hypr Hawaii, Ian Foo, and he’ll sort you out.
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Jeff Clark has been riding sup guns practicing for the Eddie, and has designs he's stoked in.
He's heading to your area today, has boards and gonna shape more. Phone is a good way to get a hold of him.
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That wave looks fun. All of the boards look like guns to me, point and shoot. Your Surrator is like an oversized shortboard, made to carve, which would feel twitchy at speed. Follow you instinct on board width, my recommendation would be to find a stable 29" wide gun shaped board. Most of the commercial guns seem to be narrower than 29", low volume for average sized riders.
The HyprNalu guns look sweet. How about a custom 10'6" x 29" HyprNalu, should be as stable as your PSH 10'6" AA.
I have a question about the HyprNalu guns though, the volume and dimensions look off to me. Perhaps the thicknesses on the website are off. The dimensions on the website, would lead me to believe that the 9'6", 10'6", and 11'6 are about 10L smaller, whereas the 12'6" may be 10L larger. If the dimensions are correct, than the weight recommendations for the boards make sense for the 9'6", 10'6", and 11'6", but the volumes are off.
I presume you were asking about production boards. If looking for customs, I wonder if you could have Blane Chambers shape you a custom board. Otherwise, Jeff Clark (as mentioned), Joe Blair (Gun 29"), Bob Pearson are all talented California gun shapers.
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I wouldn’t pay much attention to the volumes quoted for the Hypr Hawaii guns. They have made so many different sized semi-custom ones, and the bottom contours are so complex, that the figures quoted are probably only meant as a rough example. And anyway, volume really doesn’t mean much at all: The 12-6 Hypr gun I have is probably about the same volume as my PSH 12ft gun but it is a lot more stable.
They are also quite different boards, although obviously they share the same design ethic. The 12-6 x 29 surfs very well but is intended also to be user-friendly enough that it can be used as an everyday cruiser. The 11-6 is much higher performance and while it certainly can be used as an all-round board (and I have done), in the waves it is surprisingly fast and high performance - the feel is much more like you’d expect from most decent 10-6 surf SUPs. The 10-6 gun is quite low volume and is an out-and-out surfer, unless you were very light.
There are two new developments in the range too. The first is that there is going to be a narrower version of the 12-6, which would work for light women and smaller men as a cruiser, and as a high-performance outer-reef type gun for a bigger intermediate or above paddler. The second is the new 14’x26” gun. I’m going to write a review of that once I’ve finished testing it. But I already have used it enough to know that it is the best 14ft that I have ever tried (and I’ve tried LOTS) in surf. I got mine in a heavy-duty double-carbon full PVC construction because my break is a mile offshore and around a wreck, and the downwinding I do can be in fairly extreme winds too (over 40 knots), so I need something that is strong strong strong, and has a bit of weight for getting into waves in offshore winds. Others might want something lighter.
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Hey all, Happy New Year!!!
Thanks for all the great responses. This is still a great forum with helpful information.
I would love to try everyone of the boards mentioned here in larger surf. Wouldn't we all? I still haven't made a decision on what to go with but now I have plenty to think about ???
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Have you tried running your surrator as a quad + nubster center fin? That’s how I run my 8’10” Surrator and like it a lot.
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Have you tried running your surrator as a quad + nubster center fin? That’s how I run my 8’10” Surrator and like it a lot.
+1-- I have a Kelly Slater Quad Set plus Nubster on my 8'10 Surrator. Best setup I have found for it!
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I have to put in a pitch for the approx 9’ board. If you look at prone guns they center on that range. If you can get something in a narrower SUP width it’s almost in that exact range.
I’ll bring up a topic here that I’m have no strong opinions on, but want to hear about.
SUP in a large-ish lineup. Not Mavericks big, but enough to where proners are on step ups and there’s a crowd. Can you safely manage a board in those conditions or do you avoid people?
In a truly large lineup everyone bails their big boards anyway. But in a mid sized lineup a prone board can still be managed better. I’m thinking of when Laird broke that guy’s arm during the Marie swell.
I’d like to hear people’s personal guidelines for this sort of situation. Are you out in big crowded lineups? I’ve only done it a few times. Nowadays I tap out at about head high due to not being able to manage a large board in those conditions safely if there are people around. I feel prone surfers bail their boards less faced with the same wave. I tend to grab a prone board if I’m going to paddle out in head high or better. (If it’s busy, and I’m honest, I take a wavestorm out at head high and have a ball.)
But what will I do when my knees or shoulders slow down?
Not trying to start yet another (#247?) thread on SUP hate. So please take your persecution complex elsewhere. This is about experienced paddlers discussing our own personal abilities and boundaries. So, while I appreciate everyone’s speculation, I’d rather hear from folks who have been out consistently when it’s overhead.
What’s it like up North. Who’s getting out when it’s doh and crowded? And if you’re honest, are you as safe as if your board was 9’ x 21” x 3”? Or do you look for spots and situations where you’re on your own?
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My prone gun is a nine footer and my sup gun is a 10-4. Just like the difference between my short prone and sup boards, the sups size bigger.
Crowds are a bummer anytime but especially at a crowded peak. I naturally take a cautious approach, but it’s tricky. I have never come close to hurting any one but will take a beating to make sure of it.
On the really big days stress control is a big thing and the camera is just too much. Gotta keep it simple.
These vids are on the 10-4x28 beautiful baby on 10’ days. Jeff Clark won’t make them wider. And it is true, wide boards do not work at big wave speeds. Jeff has a beveled rail to give the board some sink for control at speed. A sup is generally too fast.
In the vids you will see me pull out because of a guy underneath and a drop in. Also beatings endured because I went too deep because of the crowd.
The last vid I am alone in which is the best. But the reason is a hell shore break which is why I choose the crowd on most big days. That is the problem, when it’s big only a handful of spots are still rideable. And these all get crowded.
https://vimeo.com/131244155
https://vimeo.com/196934765
https://vimeo.com/173819166
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A 9 foot board is TOO Short when it comes to catching big waves.
I would use a 9 foot board up to 10 foot faces then you are challenged with taking off late and steep like Jamie O'Brien.
For waves in the 8 to 15 foot face range I would recommend a 10' x 28" board similar to what Jay is showing above.
For waves regularly with 12 to 18 foot faces I recommend a 10' 6" fast paddling board (I use a Paddle Surf Hawaii PSH 10' 6").
If waves are going to be regularly 15 ft or more I will use my 12' PSH gun. Going shorter than this significantly increase risk.
Going longer, at the right break, lets you glide in like you're on a Cadillac. I recommend you wear FLOTATION.
10 foot boards will catch these:
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10 Foot board at its limit and beyond.
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10' 6" x 28" PSH. This is the Luxury cruiser of the Double Overhead Realm.
My daughter on the 10' 6" and Friend Dave on his 10' 6". Super reliable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62gVGlyqXfs
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Depending on where you surf a 12' board is VERY NICE. Not in shore break but if you have a point break it will take you to Infinity and Beyond.
Lower and Upper limits of a 12 foot board.
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My surf amigo Dave Westendorf bought a 12' Lyle Carlson 6 years ago. I kept raving about the benefits of the 12' board at Mavericks. He never tried the board.
I have a secret spot called Denton's Peak. He hadn't caught a wave at Mavericks for a few years, prone, then tried my strategy.
This video is among the best rides ever filmed at Mavericks (most artistic). Dave on his 12' SUP gliding in easy peasy like he was on a Cadillac.
OMFG! :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjhYaq5cfsg
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Since you got me started. This was a video I made that makes people laugh.
Me and Dave Westendorf riding big waves, singing and giggling all the way.
https://vimeo.com/192286584
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Beasho, of course I’ve followed you for years. And as I mentioned, I’m more curious when surfing on the big day at the average local. Mavericks has a strong pecking order and experienced surfers. I’m more asking about when it’s doh at the local that’s normally waist high.
100% you need a longer board for XXL waves and I defer to your experience there.
But most paddlers are getting 2-3 “big” days a year and every idiot in town is on it.
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I hear you. And we catch bigger waves on a SUP. More later.
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Of course, you’re in that sweet spot between paddle in (prone) and tow.
I have to say, one of my best days was cruising into a peak I had all to myself on a 10’6” SUP. Beginner spot, too big for beginners to paddle out. I had it alone for 2 hours. Early roll in, easy cruise, and then over the back and back out. It changed my head for sure.
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Funny story...
Back when I first posted, "Info on big wave sup board" a friend of mine from down south saw the post here and contacted me. I had sold him (with some regret) my 12 foot Paddle Surf Hawaii Gun a couple of years ago. Anyways, he contacted me and asked if I wanted to purchase the PSH from him as he was thinning his board supply and the PSH was not getting much use. I said, "Yes" and bought back the board a couple of days ago. I couldn't be happier. This board really has no upper limit (not that I would surf that anyways.) There is such a feeling of confidence paddling into a large wave with this thing that I have not found with other boards. 8)
Thanks surifnj and Beasho for the excellent videos and info. Wouldn't a sup movie (with plenty of video) about big wave sup surfing and different surfing spots be great!?
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I love those things. The right board for the job
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I'm 6'4" and weigh 225 for reference...
...changed the fins to huge quads
Hi Lopezwill, so stoked for you ;D and the reuniting with the 12' Gun Ripper, that is sweet.
I have a question though, What "huge" quads you have tried?
For Futures Quads: I've (200#) tried Controllers Quad and Pancho Sullivan/Controller Rear.
@Josh+805StandUp: Thanks for the nubster suggestion, great tip.
(Still looking for big FCS Quads)
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sflinux
For the quad set up I used 4 3/4 Rusty front fins and Controller back fins with a small nubster on the Surrator. This was a good set up for that board in larger surf. The thin pointy nose and tail of the Surrator became to much work for me at my age, weight and height. I tend to surf less than perfect choppy, windy surf and felt I needed a board with more volume and length. If I lived in some place like Santa Barbara where the waves are cleaner and less wind I would have been happy with the Surrator as a big wave board.
I took the PSH out two days ago in overhead surf and what a beast that board is. It gets into waves so early and gives me a lot of confidence as I know it won't become skiddery or slide out on a bottom turn. In a perfect world we should all have a quiver of boards for the conditions we surf. I really like that 10'4" x 28 Jeff Clark board that surfinj rides so well. I think I would be happy with a board like that made to my weight and height.?
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Here's a 12' PSH gun in perfect shape... Just in case someone is interested..
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/laguna-beach-psh-12-sup/7065705022.html
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Great thread! I love guns and love surfing them in their element here in northern california, and wanted to give the 12 foot Jimmy Lewis Bombora some love. I have both that and the 12' psh, and while I love the psh, the jl is my go to when it gets big. The psh feels a bit more cruisery slow, doesn't blast through sections as well, and just doesn't feel as "elegant" to me. Hard to describe. There's a few critical differences in the shape, dims below. Could definitely just be my fin setup though. My JL is one of the earlier models and it's single fin only, and I ride my psh as a 2+1. I don't mean to bash the psh, I love it too, but the jl has a big advantage: it's still in production.
I also have the Son of Bombora, which I like too, but the 12 is my go to when it gets huge because I'm a wuss and the SOB doesn't have the same long and lean feel. And I just love the drop on the 12. I love everything about that board. I could hang it on a wall and just stare at it. But I hate carrying it!
Should mention, I'm about 6' on a good day, probably about 220# on a bad day.
PSH 12' Gun
Length: 12'0"
Width: 28 7/8"
Thickness: 4 3/4"
196 litere
Jimmy Lewis Bombora
Length: 12'
Width: 27.5
Thickness: 4.5"
Volume: 165 liters
I keep meaning to do a photo shoot comparing the shapes.