Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Adolfo on October 23, 2019, 08:30:53 AM
-
Hello all.
Spring has arrived to the southern hemisphere and it’s time to pull the trigger on a wing.
Problem is I’m not sure what to buy, and so would like to use your summer experience to help me with the decision.
I know some of you have a lot of different wings. Admin, Pono and Dwight that I can think of, but I’m sure there must be others.
I weight 160 lb and would like to use it from 12/13 knots to the low 20’s, mostly for surfing, so I think that a 5 mts will be the size. The board will be a Starboard Hypernut 7’4 and a Neil Pryde Surf Large foil (1.600 cm2).
My options here are: Duotone, Ozone and F-One.
So, let’s say that, with all the experience you now have , you can buy just one wing for the summer. Which will it be and why?
Thanks in advance!!
-
I haven't used the duotone but I like the F1 more than the ozone and being that you're on a 1600 foil with a long board, you'll need as much wing as possible. The handles also don't last long on the ozone. I feel like the F1 is the most balanced in gusts and easiest to use in the waves. Also its wing tips rarely catch the water compared to the ozone.
-
Hey Adolfo
Just curious where in the Southern Hemisphere?
-
I will not buy a wing that I can't attach a harness line to easily, so the Ozone is out. For me a harness line is a must have feature now.
The F-ONE has a nice harness line and harness attachment at just the right position, however the Duotone might work even better with a harness because you can adjust the location to meet your exact needs.
I heard the F-ONE has more power than the Duotone, but this is 2nd hand info. I have not tried one myself.
I did notice the F-ONE jumps are very high vs. the Duotone, but that might be because of their professional rider. That being said it could also be a power thing so at least you know the F-ONE has the power to do that.
-
I have both a Duotone 5M and a F-One 5m. Also Duotone 3 and 4M. I'd say the duotone 5M is more powerful than the F-One, but it's harder to handle. the F-one is more settled and stable. I hate the floppy handles of the F-one though, so I had to make a fake boom to be comfortable with it. Fortunately, that's not hard if you have an old paddle shaft kicking around.
I've tried about everything but Gong, and I like the smaller size Duotones best, but I like the 5M F-one better than the Duotone.
-
Thanks for the advice.
@flkiter: good point on the handles of the Ozone. That’s de kind of experience that I was looking for. Regarding the power, I don’t think the size of the foil will be a problem at my weight. Last weekend I demoed a Duotone 4 with my board and foil, and found it very easy to use. Wind was steady from 15 to 18 knots, and I just stood on the board and foiled away on the first try, and one hour later was doing foiling jibes (I’m a kite foiler).
@ Dusk Patrol: I live in Argentina, where I kite & SUP on flat water and chop, and I do most of my surfing during holidays in Uruguay.
@ supkailua: agree on the harness lines!! On my only session with the Duotone I found that my back arm got tired, especially going upwind, when I needed to put the wing on a vertical position an sheet in. It remembered me of the early days of windsurfing (late 70’s), before harnesses were invented. We used to sail inside the boom just to give the arms a rest!!
@Pono: you summarized what I suspected. I never used a wing with handles but I like better the idea of having a firm device to control the wing. But on the other hand, what I didn’t like of the Duotone was that, when I tried to hold the wing from the front handle, it started swinging like crazy from one side to the other. That was a very different experience of what I was expecting from watching videos, where people look to foil relaxed down the line, while casually holding the wing behind them with one hand.
But then I can’t find any videos of people surfing like that with Duotones. It looks like with Duotones they surf holding the boom over their heads.
-
What I didn’t like of the Duotone was that, when I tried to hold the wing from the front handle, it started swinging like crazy from one side to the other. That was a very different experience of what I was expecting from watching videos, where people look to foil relaxed down the line, while casually holding the wing behind them with one hand.
But then I can’t find any videos of people surfing like that with Duotones. It looks like with Duotones they surf holding the boom over their heads.
Hi Adolfo,
I am obviously sold on the Swings at this point but they really are far ahead on this first effort. Here is some relevant stuff snipped from FB:
The Duotones do have that odd behavior. You can test this on the beach. In a steady breeze grab your wing by the leading edge handle only (or by the leash right where it meets the wing). The Duotones will fly in a very stable manner when upside down but when you flip them to rightside up they will begin to beat from side to side. This becomes very aggressive in higher wind. Most other wings fly very calmly when you do this same test rightside up. You can film this comparison easily and it will be duplicable for anyone who wants to try.
Check out this video at 1:50 . You can see the issue there. This gets much more significant in stronger wind. It is always there but it is less noticeable with both hands on the wing. We noticed a major stability increase with other wing types
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hmQy6EToUA
Check out the difference. It is profound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHH4F0_F-J4
Aside from that, the Swings are significantly lighter, notably more powerful in all sizes that I have tried, distort less under load, pack smaller, and rig quicker.
We paid full price for all of our wings. We have now sold everything except for the Swings. In my mind F-One has set a very high bar for the industry and this will push development and improvement going forward. All of this may change when everyone comes out with V2 products but for now the Swings are out there on their own.
-
The Slingshot wing also does the side to side wobble off the nose handle.
-
I think a bunch of the companies will start to copy the F1 design. Looks like the production model of the cabrinha changed a little in the direction of F1 from the early samples. Gong is adding the floating canopy as well and I wouldn't be surprised if ozone does the same for their 6 meter. Wings are like all equipment tho, different styles for different riders. As for pressure on the hands, as you get into the high aspect wings, that'll be way less as you have less drag on the foil.
-
Thanks again.
It looks like the F-One is the best option.
4 votes to 0 on the others!!
Now I have to be sure of the size I want.
Wind range charts say that the 4.2 is good from 15 to 30 knots and the 5.0 from 10 to 25.
Do you think those numbers are accurate?
I ask because with kites I’m used to that kind of charts, but they don’t work well. In my experience big kites (> 12) work better for heavier guys in light wind, but they don’t do much to lower the minimum threshold for lightweights. Don’t know if that is the case with wings.
-
For the size board and foil and your weight, I'd go with the 5 unless you can get the 6. I weigh about the same and ride a 5'11" with the Axis 100 wing or the 102. I think my quiver will be a 3.5 and 6 once I get them but the 5 has been my main wing and I've held it down up over 25 knots with no issue. The top end is really what ever you feel comfortable with but the low end is limited with wings due to foil, board, Rider weight, and skill. You'll start with one and build a quiver from it. We all started with just one and now most guys are building quivers of wings instead of kites.
-
I'm 145 lbs, just sold my Slingshot, and have a 3.5 and 5M Swing out for delivery today.
If I was only getting one size, I probably would have gone 4.2M. I'm aiming for similar wind conditions 10-20+ knts. Have a giant 2400 wing for light wind, 1550 for average, and 1200 for nuking (Armstrong).
-
Gong is adding the floating canopy as well...
What do you mean regarding the "floating canopy"? Are you referring to the new Pro Wing? Or is this a new development?
I would put my vote in for Gong for which Wing to buy. I love my 5M - top quality construction, light weight, good power in light air, and handles the gusts nicely. Oh, and the handles are rumored to be the best out there! Not to mention it is the most affordable wing available now by a huge margin.
-
I would put my vote in for Gong for which Wing to buy. I love my 5M - top quality construction, light weight, good power in light air, and handles the gusts nicely. Oh, and the handles are rumored to be the best out there! Not to mention it is the most affordable wing available now by a huge margin.
I was wondering if someone would mention Gong. Has anyone used both Gong and F-One?
-
I was wondering if someone would mention Gong. Has anyone used both Gong and F-One?
I have. The Gong is well balanced. It doesn’t do the side to side wobble. The handles are comfortable. So it’s better than a lot of wings, from the big brands.
F-one is by far the best, if you don’t mind that it also comes with the highest price tag in the industry.
-
I was wondering if someone would mention Gong. Has anyone used both Gong and F-One?
I have. The Gong is well balanced. It doesn’t do the side to side wobble. The handles are comfortable. So it’s better than a lot of wings, from the big brands.
F-one is by far the best, if you don’t mind that it also comes with the highest price tag in the industry.
Thanks Dwight
-
I’m just writing to say thank you.
Following your advice, I bought the F-One 5.0. It arrived a couple of weeks ago, but only this weekend we had some decent wind to give it a try.
24 knots gusting to 30 on Thursday, 25 to 27 on Friday, 15 to 20 on Saturday and 12 to 15 on Sunday, so I was able to use the wing in every condition.
It worked exactly as I expected from what you told me:
- The F-One is very stable, compared to the Duotone. I had a knee surgery this year and so I can’t do the kneeling start yet. I have to stand on the board and then rise the wing, and it is way easier to do it with a stable wing than with one that swings like crazy from one side to the other.
- It’s has a weightless feel that is very nice.
- Wind range is huge, but the fluttering gets a bit uncomfortable when riding above 22 / 23 knots.
- Packing size is great and the backpack is big enough to hold the wing + pump. Much more comfortable than the long bag with no space for the pump of the Duotone. It’s nice to walk to the beach holding the board assembled with the foil with both hands, with the backpack on your shoulders.
- Didn’t like the handles. I like better the control that the solid boom gives, mostly when jibbing. When jibbing with the Duotone boom you can move your front hand a little backwards, and go into the turn with power holding the wing with one hand. Then just twist your forearm and the wing is facing the other way and you are out of the turn with speed. With the handles you can’t (or I can’t) do that. As soon as you let the back hand go, the wing loses all its power and you depend on your initial speed or a bump or pumping to keep the board foiling through the turn while you change hands and can sheet in again.
As usually happens decisions, this was a compromise, but I’m very happy with your advice and my choice.
Thanks a lot!!
-
Don’t put the pump inside the bag! It will wear a hole in the fragile canopy. Use the bungee loops on the outside of the bag.
Same with the Duotone. Never put the boom inside the bag.
-
Hi Dwight.
Thanks for the advice.
But I’m curious: do you think the material of the canopy of the wing is different from the one we have on kites? It looks very similar to me.
I’ve being putting pumps and bars inside kite bags for 19 years, and never had any problem (starting with the little hand pump on the mesh bag of a Naish AR 5!). I keep my kites for several seasons and never saw any damage or even wear on them.
I assumed the holds on the outside of the bags were for when you don’t have space on the inside if the kite was poorly packed, or for wet bars.
But now I don’t know. I rather have my pump sand free and tangle free on the inside of the bag, but not at the expense of any damage to the canopy.
-
Yes, its the same as our kites. I’ve seen lots of mystery pin holes in kite canopies. So I just avoid anything hard coming in contract. They do put neoprene over one pump connections to avoid canopy holes.....
If they wanted the pump inside the bags, they would not have the provisions for hanging it outside away from the paper thin canopy.
I made the comment because we’ve got so many new people who have never owned a kite.