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General Category => Gear Talk => SUP Gear Reviews / Newly Acquired / On Order => Topic started by: burchas on October 16, 2019, 01:53:16 PM

Title: Wing pump alternative
Post by: burchas on October 16, 2019, 01:53:16 PM
Since my wing ( or shall I say my hand kite  ;D) lives in my trunk I wanted a nice compact pump that I can pack inside the wing bag.
While at it I thought to address few things that I wasn't happy with the usual sup pump like pumping one
handed when I have to hold the wing in some cases.

This thing worked perfectly for me, very affordable as well:

https://smile.amazon.com/Airhead-AHP-F1-AIRHEAD-Foot-Pump/dp/B000FE9CGE/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?Submit=Go&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0&_encoding=UTF-8&keywords=AIRHEAD+Foot+Pump&link_code=wsw&qid=1571258185&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFXRDlZRVU4VjIwNlUmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTEwMDgzMjFWUlgwVFY1WDFFR08mZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDE0MjI2MzJXMlFWNjZBUlFYQzQmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

https://smile.amazon.com/Melchef-Halkey-Roberts-Adapter-Inflatable-Roberts/dp/B07BFDR9HJ/ref=sr_1_1?Submit=Go&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0&_encoding=UTF-8&dchild=1&keywords=Melchef+Halkey-Roberts+%28HR%29+Air+Valve+Adapter+Inflatable+Boat+Foot+Pump+Halkey-Roberts+HR+Hose+Adapter+H-R+Valve+Adapter+Roberts+%28HR%29+Air+Valve+Adapter&link_code=wsw&psc=1&qid=1571258148&sr=8-1

Pumps fast. can deflate as well if you need that last extra mile to deflate completely.
Stuck the adapter right on the hose without cutting. 2 layers or electrical tape and done.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: Caribsurf on October 16, 2019, 02:02:00 PM
great idea Burchas, packs away perfectly...hey did your F-one Wing also come with an adapter?  I read somewhere it does.

Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: DavidJohn on October 16, 2019, 02:22:33 PM
Great idea..  8)
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: Quickbeam on October 16, 2019, 04:02:24 PM
Perfect. I've already got that pump. Now I just need to get a Wing!
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: burchas on October 16, 2019, 09:10:22 PM
great idea Burchas, packs away perfectly...hey did your F-one Wing also come with an adapter?  I read somewhere it does.

You are correct. F-One owners can save on the adapter as the one that comes with the wing fits this pump with slight modification.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: Wetstuff on October 17, 2019, 02:03:37 PM
Thanks, Burch...  I've added this as a second to my conventional 'butt-in-the-air', back buster, also from Amazon ~$14.  One of the local kiters had a very tall pump, but it was like $70.  At that, my little PITA pump pumps my WASP in ~2min.

Jim
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: PonoBill on October 17, 2019, 02:23:37 PM
Nice, but no pressure gauge. Do you just guess or did you do a gauge on the connector? I find my guess is not good enough, especially for the F-one.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: burchas on October 17, 2019, 05:04:26 PM
Nice, but no pressure gauge. Do you just guess or did you do a gauge on the connector? I find my guess is not good enough, especially for the F-one.

Guesstimate. I never really looked even with my sup pump with the pressure gauge nor did I bother to find out what's the recommended pressure for the wing? Had no issue with not enough power up until now.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: Wetstuff on October 21, 2019, 02:10:49 PM
Credit - Burchas...   I got a foot pump ..and I had to do a test.  The standard vertical kite pump took a little over a minute and 70 duplex strokes to inflate to a 'tink' vs. a 'tunk'.  I did my best to evacuate the center strut and repeated with the foot pump. The time was similar but I only needed about 50 stomps to get the same result.* Each of these was about $14 on Amazon.  I had plenty of pumps in 13yrs of kites, but never a foot pump. (air mattress prejudice? ..me too-ism?) Some people used electric pumps for kites but that seemed really slack for such an intense sport...

The vertical pump will be the reserve.  The foot pump is so much more 'back-friendly' - that alone is worth having one.  Thanks for the prompt, Burchas.


Jim

*I should take another shot at it; the main tube seemed a little softer with the footie. (the strut may have been filling..) But, they are so close in time and price - what's a coupla extra stomps. 



Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: burchas on October 21, 2019, 04:26:01 PM
...The foot pump is so much more 'back-friendly' - that alone is worth having one.  Thanks for the prompt, Burchas.

I think you nailed it Jim. 'back-friendly' is probably the killer feature to state before all my convenience oriented reasons.

Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: MLB on October 21, 2019, 06:43:39 PM
Nice, but to be fair it take about 30 seconds with my Red Paddle Co isup pump. Barely worth complaining about.
 If you don't check psi you probably aren't airing it up enough.  it's tighter than you think at 6psi.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: burchas on October 21, 2019, 07:02:54 PM
Nice, but to be fair it take about 30 seconds with my Red Paddle Co isup pump. Barely worth complaining about.
 If you don't check psi you probably aren't airing it up enough.  it's tighter than you think at 6psi.

It does take me about 30 seconds with the Red Titan But this pump is a bitch to handle and takes so much space among other things. I can get the wing just as tight with foot pump. And really, who wants to spend $130 for a pump.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: PonoBill on October 21, 2019, 07:36:31 PM
Six pounds is about the minimum, I do about 6.5. Makes a big difference in handling. There are adapters with a guage in them, it doesn't have to be on the pump.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: burchas on October 21, 2019, 08:19:54 PM
Six pounds is about the minimum, I do about 6.5. Makes a big difference in handling. There are adapters with a guage in them, it doesn't have to be on the pump.

Could you elaborate on the difference you experienced between 6 to 6.5? If that sounds like I'm missing something it may encourage my lazy ass to go and try it for my self.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: Wetstuff on October 22, 2019, 10:41:35 AM
Here's another opinion...   Ole' Barton Decker in HAT made him give me a lesson.  If you think he speaks 'a little direct here', you shudda been there! I topped it off walking thru a large area of sandspurs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KKY0ZRyqDg

Jim
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: Fishman on October 22, 2019, 04:30:44 PM
My back really likes the idea foot pump. The description on that foot pump only has it as a "2 psi".

Are you guys getting enough pressure out of this pump or topping off with other pump?
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: burchas on October 22, 2019, 05:10:51 PM
My back really likes the idea foot pump. The description on that foot pump only has it as a "2 psi".

Are you guys getting enough pressure out of this pump or topping off with other pump?

Watch the video above. with the foot pump I'm able to pump it beyond what he called the "beginner" pressure
but not as much as the top performance. But since I am at the stage where I'm doing "Airs" and by that I mean flying off the board right into the water head first :D these settings are perfect for me.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: PonoBill on October 22, 2019, 06:35:58 PM
My wing went soft today after the first crash. I pumped it to 7psi (Admin is insisting 10 is better--he's a little nuts). What I didn't consider is cold water. Did I perhaps lose two pounds while I was flopping around getting my shit together? (yes, yardsale. If you're gonna do it, don't hold back).  72-degree air temperature, 50-degree water. Assume all the air in the bladder gets cooled to final pressure and temperature has to be in absolute units (Kelvin for fahrenheit).  Pf = Pi(Ti/Tf)  so Pf = 7 (283.15/295.20) = 6.7  Okay, maybe not.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: burchas on October 22, 2019, 06:53:00 PM
My wing went soft today after the first crash. I pumped it to 7psi (Admin is insisting 10 is better--he's a little nuts). What I didn't consider is cold water. Did I perhaps lose two pounds while I was flopping around getting my shit together? (yes, yardsale. If you're gonna do it, don't hold back).  72-degree air temperature, 50-degree water. Assume all the air in the bladder gets cooled to final pressure and temperature has to be in absolute units (Kelvin for fahrenheit).  Pf = Pi(Ti/Tf)  so Pf = 7 (283.15/295.20) = 6.7  Okay, maybe not.

You might be overthinking it. Unless you're using your wing as a pool noodle, what you're describing sounds unlikely.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: Dwight (DW) on October 23, 2019, 03:26:57 AM
My wing went soft today after the first crash. I pumped it to 7psi (Admin is insisting 10 is better--he's a little nuts). What I didn't consider is cold water. Did I perhaps lose two pounds while I was flopping around getting my shit together? (yes, yardsale. If you're gonna do it, don't hold back).  72-degree air temperature, 50-degree water. Assume all the air in the bladder gets cooled to final pressure and temperature has to be in absolute units (Kelvin for fahrenheit).  Pf = Pi(Ti/Tf)  so Pf = 7 (283.15/295.20) = 6.7  Okay, maybe not.

Same cold water thing happened to me many times in the early years of kiting, when we were all kooks afraid to pump our kites too hard, because frankly, manufacturers didnít yet know how strong to build kites.

Iím still surprised some brands recommend 6 psi, while Naish has moved on to some super sewing thread and recommends much higher pressures.

When replacement wings are easy to get, I might follow Admin.

Also forget the foot pump. No kiters use them. There is a reason. Get a kite pump, or go electric if lazy. Iíve been using the same electric pump for 5 years. Replaced the battery once. One charge lasts me a month.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: burchas on October 23, 2019, 05:38:59 AM
Iím still surprised some brands recommend 6 psi, while Naish has moved on to some super sewing thread and recommends much higher pressures.

It's reassuring to know that some brands are recommending 6psi. Maybe they know something we don't.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: Dwight (DW) on October 23, 2019, 11:52:18 AM
My buddies 7m Gong exploded sitting on the beach with 8 psi Today.....beware Admin

His electric pump is set to shutoff at 8.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: Wetstuff on October 23, 2019, 02:13:56 PM
After Dwight posted: "Also forget the foot pump. No kiters use them. There is a reason."   I thought I should revisit my test.

This time:  100 stomps in ~2 minutes did a lot better.  That number of stomps was simply about all the foot pump would give me before fully resisting.  I am sure there is a cylinder/volume equation there somewhere, but I did not school well.

It was clearly stiffer but did not pass the 'cannot fold it' test mentioned in Maramenides' video, but did pass the Gong test performed by Dwight's friend.  No wind for a few days...


Jim
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: Wetstuff on October 24, 2019, 06:06:38 AM
I got an inside tip on the pressure.  Unlike the new kites where rock hard is the standard, these large leading edges do not need as much to hold shape - 5.5 - 7psi is sufficient.

Jim
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: Admin on October 24, 2019, 06:23:58 AM
My buddies 7m Gong exploded sitting on the beach with 8 psi Today.....beware Admin

His electric pump is set to shutoff at 8.

Hah!   I am not advocating it for anyone else but it would be hard to go back.  :)  When we had our SPG's and Duotone, I could see and feel the wings flex off power during pumping.  It is a sad feeling.  When really hard they don't do that.  They feel crisp and super responsive.  At the very least know the MFG suggestion for each size because it can vary from 6-10 psi.  I completely understand the hot air expansion concern.  Black leading edges always seemed silly too me.  We do have the advantage over kites of no 60 foot slams and our gear is typically nicely water cooled (or maybe that is just me :) ).
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: Admin on October 24, 2019, 06:30:12 AM
I got an inside tip on the pressure.  Unlike the new kites where rock hard is the standard, these large leading edges do not need as much to hold shape - 5.5 - 7psi is sufficient.

Jim

F-One suggests 6 for the largest wings and ranging up to 10 for the smallest.  Those would be conservative numbers if anything as they are going to get the warranty questions.  I can tell you for sure that none of these wings hold shape even under arm pumping load as well as a rock hard wing.   The difference is substantial.
Title: Re: Wing pump alternative
Post by: burchas on October 24, 2019, 10:19:46 AM
My buddies 7m Gong exploded sitting on the beach with 8 psi Today.....beware Admin

His electric pump is set to shutoff at 8.

Did my own little test with the foot Pump. 76 full range stomps, 1 minute.
Connected the gauge and pressure was between 7 to 8 PSI.

Could not fold the leading edge at that pressure, just a little dent at a very specific pressure point is just about the  max. Wasn't able to replicate that under wind conditions I'm flying it up to 20knots so I'm comfortable saying it should be sufficient to most people under normal conditions.

There are always some freaks who want to milk every ounce of performance, even at the risk of damaging their equipment (I should know as I'm one of those). If you are a frequent flyer, meaning diving in on your wing often, I think this risk is real and I just don't feel like taking an $800 bet every time I feel adventurous.