Standup Zone Forum

The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: peterp on September 20, 2019, 11:24:41 PM

Title: Wing window thread
Post by: peterp on September 20, 2019, 11:24:41 PM
Apparently our local water administrators are considering banning wings without windows.

As I see it virtually all craft with sails have blind angles, it's always the responsibility of the operator to check where he is going.

On a wing all it requires is the occasional lift of wing to check whereabouts of other downwind watercraft and obstacles. Upwind, straight ahead and 10-15deg downwind are un-obstructed.

Windows in wings serve no function whatsoever, other than adding weight and cost.

Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Dwight (DW) on September 21, 2019, 04:20:34 AM
Let me go drive my car now. I only need to look up from my phone occasionally
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: burchas on September 21, 2019, 05:01:08 AM
As much as I like my F-One swing and the fact it's lighter than air, there were few times I could have used a window just to feel more at ease. Trying to stay away form busy areas, but there were times boats creeped up too close.

Was never in real danger and the fact that the wing is neon yellow helps but it only takes once to get dead. If riding busy areas was unavoidable I would probably forgo some comfort and err on the side of caution.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: surfcowboy on September 21, 2019, 08:36:04 AM
Could kite repair shops add windows to the inflatables or is everyone about to have to ditch their year one wings?
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Wetstuff on September 21, 2019, 09:06:32 AM
Given these wings are <30 days old in most markets with little supply, that is remarkably quick for any municipal entity to react - where are you located, Peter? 

Jim
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: unclesaltdog on September 21, 2019, 09:45:26 AM
A window definitely wasn't a consideration when purchasing my wing but as it turned out I bought a 5mtr Duotone which of course has a window.
I had never thought much about it in my first few uses which were in marginal winds and fairly uncrowded locations.

Today however, being a weekend and being one of the first good consistent seabreezes for our season in Western Australia it was very busy on the water with both kiters and windsurfers.
Add to that the fact that you are often going at different angles with a foil (upwind and downwind) than the standard board (back and forward at 90degrees to the wind)
and I found that I was constantly looking through the window today and really appreciating the ability to keep a good eye out.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: peterp on September 21, 2019, 10:46:18 AM
Given these wings are <30 days old in most markets with little supply, that is remarkably quick for any municipal entity to react - where are you located, Peter? 

Jim

South Africa - local yacht club has the lease for a lake and can pretty much do as they want ie. kiting has never been allowed due to potential stress to birds, but waterski powerboats are.....

I doubt they will pull through with it, but you never know with this lot - it's being debated. Next the windsurfers will have to wear rear-view mirrors....
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: clay on September 21, 2019, 12:33:12 PM
I don't know Jack about kite construction or modifying.

Wondering if its possible to have a couple small windows installed?

On my smaller kite easy to lift overhead and the area is smaller and not as much of blind spot.  But the 7m is hard to lift overhead in light winds and has a big blind spot.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: river on September 24, 2019, 04:57:36 PM
I am sure AIrtime kite repair in the Gorge can add windows to any wing
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: PonoBill on September 24, 2019, 07:33:00 PM
Yup, Airtime can do about anything. I'm reasonably sure they could build a wing given a day or two. They made me a bladder for my 4M. Took about 12 hours, but they insisted on holding it inflated for six hours to be sure there were no leaks.

Pros.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Quickbeam on October 11, 2019, 09:23:32 AM
For anyone who is interested, I contacted F-ONE and asked them if they had any plans on making a Wing with a window. I got a response back that basically said they are looking into it, but it is still a project and they are not sure it will be on their November products.

I haven't purchased a Wing yet, but a window is a must have for me. I live on a small lake that can get a lot of boat traffic, so there is just no way I can get a Wing without a window.

Really want to get an F-ONE, but without a window, I'll be looking for a different brand.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Chan on October 11, 2019, 11:00:36 AM
I found the window useful the first few weeks but now that I'm more comfortable flying I've found I don't need one.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Caribsurf on October 11, 2019, 12:15:03 PM
Seems to me that the window , while beneficial in some ways, may be a problem down the road..sun damage, scratches and dull/hazy harder to see through ..like an aging windsurf sail.

Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: PonoBill on October 11, 2019, 12:58:26 PM
The window has proven to be handy going downwind, but I wouldn't add one to gain that little bit of value. It's easy to list the wind to look, doesn't cost any effort or drop me off the foil. I have three wings with windows and one without and I don't miss it when I don't have it.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: surfcowboy on October 11, 2019, 06:49:01 PM
Seems like another thing that changes as you get better.

Good to know and I can totally see how a quick peek would be easy. Especially if you’re doing what people say to do which is to fly it at a 45° above you and not very like a windsurfer. If you think of that the window is probably above your head a lot of the time.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Surfside on October 12, 2019, 03:34:20 AM
I really enjoy the shade on the hot sunny days. Windows? Nope.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Admin on October 12, 2019, 03:45:26 AM
The wing isn't fixed like a windsurfing sail.  It is in an wide variety of positions.  The small windows line up with some of those positions, sometimes, but it isn't the norm.  Outside of those few positions you have to reposition he wing to get a peak through the window.  Why not just move it to another position?  It is no harder and you get a perfect view, not a window limited view.  Also, windsurfing sails have windows that are often the size of our whole wings or even full sail.  Those sails are fixed at the mastfoot so sometimes you do need to see through them and you (usually) can.  Looking through a window is just a habit.  There are many ways to get the same or better result.

In there video an F-one product manager says that they won't add windows until there are materials available that do not add weight or limit performance.  I am all for that!
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: burchas on October 12, 2019, 10:03:40 PM
In there video an F-one product manager says that they won't add windows until there are materials available that do not add weight or limit performance.  I am all for that!

aluula anyone? That means it's probably in the works already.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Admin on October 13, 2019, 04:04:20 AM
Let's hop for Aluula wings...and no windows.   :)
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Dwight (DW) on November 11, 2019, 05:13:12 AM
We have been riding a wind direction that sends us across a busy boat channel lately. So as I’m riding the Swing, in the harness, thoughts of a window come to mind. There is no place for a window on the Swing. The strut, and the big wide web above it, block any view a window might provide. Way down by the wing tip, is the only place a window would provide a limited view. We are stuck window-less forever on this design.

I continue to listen closely for yahoos in power boats and unhook for a peak. The concern is real in Florida, when you consider about 3 years ago a windsurfer was killed by a powerboat sailing across a channel.

Imagine the lawyers going after everyone in a fatality, including the wing ding companies.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Quickbeam on November 11, 2019, 09:37:08 AM
We have been riding a wind direction that sends us across a busy boat channel lately. So as I’m riding the Swing, in the harness, thoughts of a window come to mind. There is no place for a window on the Swing. The strut, and the big wide web above it, block any view a window might provide. Way down by the wing tip, is the only place a window would provide a limited view. We are stuck window-less forever on this design.

I continue to listen closely for yahoos in power boats and unhook for a peak. The concern is real in Florida, when you consider about 3 years ago a windsurfer was killed by a powerboat sailing across a channel.

Imagine the lawyers going after everyone in a fatality, including the wing ding companies.


Thanks Dwight. I appreciate your honesty and your understanding.

I have seen so many posts on this thread dismissing the need for a window and I just don’t get it. Maybe on large bodies of water this is the case, but I’m on a small lake with a lot of boat traffic in the summer. I just can’t see myself using a Wing without a window.

But since I haven’t yet tried a Wing, all these posts about not needing a window made me wonder if maybe I really didn’t need one. It’s nice to see someone with some experience confirm what I’m thinking.

So for me, I am waiting until sometime early in the New Year before pulling the trigger and getting some gear. I was hoping F-One might come out with a Wing with a window, but from what you are saying, this seems unlikely. It looks like the Gong Wing Plus has a window, so that’s what I’ll probably end up with. 

Thanks again. Appreciate your insight.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: VB_Foil on November 11, 2019, 09:46:05 AM
At least the F-One Swing's have really bright colors!   ;D
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: PonoBill on November 11, 2019, 12:12:58 PM
The problem with a window is that it only works downwind, as far as I can see. I have windows on three wings and only use them headed downwind, and even then I can see better by  letting the wing fly up in front of me. The window is in the middle of the wing and much smaller than a windsurfing wing, and is rarely in a position to have value on any point of sail other than when the wing is in front of you.

Do what you like, Quick, but if you're choosing a wing based on the availability of a window I think you'd be disappointed in the utility of it. Other than Julie I haven't heard anyone who has a DuoTone that thinks it's important, and she's a downwind addict.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Quickbeam on November 11, 2019, 12:29:33 PM
The problem with a window is that it only works downwind, as far as I can see. I have windows on three wings and only use them headed downwind, and even then I can see better by  letting the wing fly up in front of me. The window is in the middle of the wing and much smaller than a windsurfing wing, and is rarely in a position to have value on any point of sail other than when the wing is in front of you.

Do what you like, Quick, but if you're choosing a wing based on the availability of a window I think you'd be disappointed in the utility of it. Other than Julie I haven't heard anyone who has a DuoTone that thinks it's important, and she's a downwind addict.

Thanks Pono. I do appreciate it. And I really do appreciate all the opinions. But I think for my own comfort and peace of mind my first Wing will have a window. Maybe if I can get anywhere near proficient I’ll find I don’t need it any more. But I think while I’m learning I would have a much higher comfort level with a window. At least that’s what I’m thinking right now. But I've gone back and forth so much on this, who knows what I'll be thinking when I'm actually ready to purchase.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Dwight (DW) on February 17, 2020, 04:07:40 AM
This summer will be the year of the window.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B8qnmfSoOn-/?igshid=fn7px2ouf7sb
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Seattle-Wind on February 17, 2020, 07:48:13 AM
So for me, I am waiting until sometime early in the New Year before pulling the trigger and getting some gear. I was hoping F-One might come out with a Wing with a window, but from what you are saying, this seems unlikely. It looks like the Gong Wing Plus has a window, so that’s what I’ll probably end up with. 

I will echo what Admin & Pono have said and I think that until you actually try a wing with a window you likely won't understand why they're basically pointless. I had a Gong Plus with its 4 windows and they give you such a limited view when you're actually up and flying that I still found myself raising the whole wing above my head to get a view of boat traffic. When you're using the wing up on foil the windows never line up with where you want to see, you're either seeing sky out of the upper window or the water out of the lower window. Where you would actually want the window to be would be is right where the strut is, but of course that's not possible in an inflatable. The one wing where the windows might be helpful is the DuoTone with its thin boom (instead of a large inflatable strut) and larger windows compared to other brands. Also, the windows on the Gong Plus aren't very wide, so even if you re-positioned the wing while flying to look for boat traffic you'll have to move the wing and your head around a lot left to right to get a good solid view of any incoming boat traffic. It's easier to just raise the wing over your head for 1 second and get an unobstructed view.

For reference, I ride primarily on Lake Washington near Seattle, it's a very busy urban lake with a lot of boat traffic with people who have never driven a boat before, so boat traffic is a big concern for me. Until the windows on wings get large enough to provide a basically unobstructed view I will be raising the wing up above my head every 30 seconds or so to check for boats.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Dwight (DW) on February 17, 2020, 03:06:41 PM
Airush sure looks like an Swing knockoff with windows. Insta is lit up with new wings coming.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B8mLPadHt03/?igshid=1vjylpn1pj0nl
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: flkiter on February 17, 2020, 03:43:36 PM
Naish looks like a copy also of F1 also. I think a lot the industry held back and now that they see mostly positive feedback from F1, they're putting their version of it out. Took so long to get the F1's so hopefully these new models will be available before 2021.
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: burchas on February 18, 2020, 04:54:59 PM
Seems like all the involved companies are tuning into the Wing threads on the zone.
It's the second time I've seen a company using the FreeWing moniker I proposed not too long ago here.
and now the F-One knock-offs starting to roll-in after all the raving reviews of the wing posted here.

When should we expect to see the improved semi-stiff handles ;D
Title: Re: Wing window thread
Post by: Admin on February 19, 2020, 12:51:12 AM
Naish looks like a copy also of F1 also. I think a lot the industry held back and now that they see mostly positive feedback from F1, they're putting their version of it out. Took so long to get the F1's so hopefully these new models will be available before 2021.

Jumpin Jesus!  Look at the nasty windows on that Naish.  The lovely Raspberry F1 they sat it on looks like someone applied a Grampy's Balls filter to it.  Stretched, Grey and Wrinkly.  I am going to call these things the moon roof of Winging.  They sound nice but you never look through them.  :)
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal