Standup Zone Forum
General => The Shape Shack => Topic started by: burchas on August 23, 2019, 03:58:08 PM
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Testing my new Naish Maliko 2020 on some small surf nose dived on a steep small wave (maybe 3ft face) landed on the nose with the paddle shaft, broke the shaft but there's also a good gash on the nose with some minor cracks around. It seems like the majority of the board is covered with decal, not that it helped much but thought I should mention.
Interested to hear if you think this would be a normal outcome or the construction might be on the fragile side?
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Thank you Yuval, now I am looking at my 2018 with more passionate eyes.....sorry you were the guinea pig but that is for the general good :-)
I often paddle in washing-machine so one day it will be landing squarely on the nose....
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is the paint matte under that pealing clear?
As for the construction there are always tradeoffs but I imagine that on a long board they did not bother to reinforce and area that rarely gets hit. Also it looks like single shell construction so there is only so much strength from the carbon and once deformed it compresses the EVA and then there is no support and it cracks.
At least it is easy to fix. just cut off all the damaged carbon. remove damaged foam. Mix gorilla glue with water and mix and then apply to missing foam area. Let it expand and then pop the bubbles and compress it down a little and do this a few times as it gets sticky then tape over in the rough shape it should end up in. Once dry rough sand and if then either repeat or use bondo to get final shape before glassing. The peeling clear on the other hand is a larger issue and if the paint is matte and smooth that usually happens from an improper bond during paint as they let the base finish dry too much between paint and clear.
Hard to warranty a damaged board. I have never won that argument with a manufacturer.
Also just so you know I had a JL Rail and that got a crack from the tip of a paddle that I hit on the deck when changing sides and losing balance. It was only cracked into the top layer not the full sandwich but it was only a few inches from the pad so I would have thought that it was reinforced but I have found most of the boards are only a single layer of Carbon layer to keep them light and sandwich of two thin layers is strong until hit with a high load on a small area.
I also fell on the deck of my Infinity and that is 29lbs single shell carbon and I did not even get a pressure ding from that one. Sometimes all the layers together is a good thing for these small area high loads.
Also I have had boards were not constructed as specified in advertisements but I only notice this when they are damaged and can see under the paint. They then say that it is broken but I state that it is only after I can see under the paint that I find it is not built the way I was told which is why I bought the item in the first place. They always come back with but it is broken now and they do not warranty items damaged due to use. It is a circular argument that I usually give up on and do not purchase from them again.
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I’m sorry this has happened to you: that looks like it will be an expensive repair to a nearly-new board, and then there is the cost of the broken paddle too.
How did the board surf?
The Naish website seems to show the construction as one layer of glass and one layer of carbon, with wood sandwich in the standing area. But it is not clear what the extra top layer they show in the graphic is: is that a kinda shrink-wrap decal-type layer? Is it like helicopter tape or is it much less impact-resistant than that?
https://www.naishsurfing.com/product/maliko-140/
That could be pretty tricky to fix well? These days I am increasingly thinking about longevity in boards, and being cheap and easy to fix is a key part of that. After all, the greenest way to own a SUP is probably to keep it for years and years, repairing it as necessary. I’m not sure how having a shrink-wrap outer layer (or that is what it is) is compatible with that?
I’m a fan of full PVC sandwich construction (I have three boards on order that are double carbon full PVC sandwich, 3 times vacuum-bagged, from Hypr Nalu Hawaii). So I’m disappointed that Naish have moved away from that. The Kinetic factory in Vietnam managed to make Jimmy Lewis race boards that are full PVC sandwich and very durable that are also light, so why can’t Naish find someone who can do similarly?
Mind you, maybe all race boards will be made like the Nelo ones soon. And then the number of dings that need fixing will be much less. But presumably the Maliko boards are at a usefully lower price point?
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I’m sorry this has happened to you: that looks like it will be an expensive repair to a nearly-new board, and then there is the cost of the broken paddle too.
Good news is the board is insured and paddle shaft has already been replaced (I have quite a few of those).
As for the nose fix, it shouldn't be that expensive but my plan was to do some reshape to the nose anyway. Judging from the picture I saw before buying, it seemed the nose had a hard edge to it which is not the case. I believe a hard edge like the new Javelin or the RS will benefit the board.
So I'll add that feature along with some new fin boxes and Yellow paint.
But it is not clear what the extra top layer they show in the graphic is: is that a kinda shrink-wrap decal-type layer? Is it like helicopter tape or is it much less impact-resistant than that?
Now that you mention it, it does look like shrink wrap layer but it's nothing like helicopter tape and has no impact resistance qualities.
And with the price point of the Maliko at $2800 (if you can find one) I'll definitely agree with you that the construction was compromised for the sake of weight all though they should be able to achieve a full PVC sandwich.
For me it's a development project for my next custom board. I get a dealer price on it anyway so I'm not too concerned about it. I'm looking to get all the feedback I can from this board before continuing with a hollow custom design.
Funny enough, at the current stage, my new design looks like the New Javelin and the new Maliko infused into one. That what made me pull the trigger on the Maliko.
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Ok then, it sounds like you are in quite a fortunate position then, so the impact of this accident will be minimal. That’s pretty good insurance that will cover a ding in the water.
I’m going to be interested to see what the speed difference is between the new 14x26 Hypr Nalu Hawaii Gun, which is a low volume surf-type shape with a relatively flat rocker (perhaps unusually so for a surf shape) and huge double concaves, and all-waters boards like the RS and Maliko. The Hypr 11-6 Gun is a freakishly fast flat water paddler for a surf SUP. If the speed difference is only around 1% or so then I might give up on bulbous-nosed, expensive, fragile, all-waters race boards completely, since I’m not a regular competitor, and low volume PVC sandwich boards (if you can get one) are easier in bad weather, easier to own (eg. transport, carrying etc), look nicer (IMO), are more durable, and nicer to paddle IMO (less roll, closer to the water, less corky etc). It’s a shame that more brands don’t make one. I’d have thought that a 14x26 Sunova Search for instance would please a lot of people. But of course, the Hypr boards are another level beyond that still in terms of construction and design. Maybe however the Maliko will be better to DW - I’ll have to wait until October to find out (which is when I get the new Hypr 14ft Gun). The 12-6 Hypr Gun downwind well in tiny stuff but I haven’t tried it yet in big conditions, where I suspect the lack of nose rocker might make it a handful, perhaps.
Part of the issue with foam boards is of course that if you make them with loads of volume then that means loads of material, which means loads of weight. So I agree with you that for high volume boards in particular, hollow will ultimately be the way to go. Or else they should start making foam lower volume boards for all-conditions and hollow constructions for the bulbous designs. Naish did make a hollow Javelin a good few years ago. (I’m not sure it was particularly well-made though.) So it seems odd that we haven’t progressed much in all these subsequent years. In fact I’d say that some of the Naish boards from around 10 hrs ago were probably better made than the ones now (well, certainly more durable, anyway).
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I’m going to be interested to see what the speed difference is between the new 14x26 Hypr Nalu Hawaii Gun...
I would be interested to learn about your findings as well. If it's anything like my M-15 Gun:
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,34707.0.html
It might prove successful in replacing the fat boards for the most part, at least for me.
Looked at their website and couldn't find this specific model. What are the specs? (including volume and weight)
I'll still shoot for a hollow construction after all development is done. Maybe even crowd fund it ,if there's enough interest, and get to a price point lower than 2k.
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Took my Javelin with a 7" fin (BP Sonic) today and had a bit of a downbreezer on my way back. Definitely, the shorter depth is helpful on not stalling the board so less than an inch does make a difference. That might be a very good combination 7" Bump fin and Javelin.
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Each to their own but I find fins like the sonic the opposite of what is good for DW, unless the conditions are tiny. I prefer shorter bases and more area towards the tip, whereas the Sonic has all the area at the base. If you are going for a short “race fin” for downbreezing I’d suggest the SIC weedless or even the VMG Mako 35. Long bases tend to cause broaching DW, and increased tracking (which a longer base gives) isn’t really a key factor for DW. Indeed, it can be a curse.
But I think we’ve been here before...
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Each to their own but I find fins like the sonic the opposite of what is good for DW, unless the conditions are tiny. I prefer shorter bases and more area towards the tip, whereas the Sonic has all the area at the base. If you are going for a short “race fin” for downbreezing I’d suggest the SIC weedless or even the VMG Mako 35. Long bases tend to cause broaching DW, and increased tracking (which a longer base gives) isn’t really a key factor for DW. Indeed, it can be a curse.
But I think we’ve been here before...
As I said it was a flat water day with bit of slow bumps/ light wind (10 knots or less) at the end, so the Sonic worked fairly well to keep some momentum going.
The SIC 7.0 is spoken for for my wife board and you don't mess with my wife board :-). Might need to get a second one as they are quite inexpensive....
I need some base to get the speed to get into the bumps. We usually do not have very strong wind compared to the short period & steep chops and I have to say that, on the Maliko, the GTS works a treat. Deep fins tend to "stop" the board before it really takes-off and it is demanding on the engine to try to keep things going. The few times we get clean swell with space in between, I feel like a hundred million. It feels effortless and fast.
I am waiting for the next iteration of Larry Allison "Bump" fin short (7") with some area at the tip, to see it is a good compromisse between a fin with short base and "straight" lines and a fin with wide base and flex at the tip.
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The base of the VMG Mako 35 is 6.1”. It is a cutaway. Cutaways are good for decent DW conditions IMO.
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The base of the VMG Mako 35 is 6.1”. It is a cutaway. Cutaways are good for decent DW conditions IMO.
Yes it is pretty much a Mako 37 with a reduced (cutaway) base but at 210mm or 8"25 it still has a lot of depth. I am trying to stay at 7" or close to see if it indeed improve any stalling on light conditions <20 knots. it is curious that Naish has stuck with fin-box placed so close to the tail (5" to 6") over the years. It does not seem to have bothered their riders like Casper and Kai or are they riding customs anyway with boxes closer to 12"?
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I’m going to be interested to see what the speed difference is between the new 14x26 Hypr Nalu Hawaii Gun...
I would be interested to learn about your findings as well. If it's anything like my M-15 Gun:
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,34707.0.html
It might prove successful in replacing the fat boards for the most part, at least for me.
Looked at their website and couldn't find this specific model. What are the specs? (including volume and weight)
I'll still shoot for a hollow construction after all development is done. Maybe even crowd fund it ,if there's enough interest, and get to a price point lower than 2k.
I’m going to be interested to see what the speed difference is between the new 14x26 Hypr Nalu Hawaii Gun...
I would be interested to learn about your findings as well. If it's anything like my M-15 Gun:
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,34707.0.html
It might prove successful in replacing the fat boards for the most part, at least for me.
Looked at their website and couldn't find this specific model. What are the specs? (including volume and weight)
I'll still shoot for a hollow construction after all development is done. Maybe even crowd fund it ,if there's enough interest, and get to a price point lower than 2k.
The Hypr Gun 14ft is a new model for this year. It seemed to emerge out of a discussion I had with the boss of Hypr Nalu Hawaii, Ian Foo, and our local/EU distributor Richard Webb. I was saying that I often surf my 16ft low volume DW board, and that the Hypr 12-6 gun caught little downbreeze bumps surprisingly well, so it would be really great if there was a slimmed-down 14ft version of ther 12ft gun for those of us who like fast-paddling surf shapes that can be used for DW, exploring, and surfing gentle breaks. And then he asked me what construction I'd ideally have, and I said that I'd probably want a carbon full PVC sandwich, to keep weight down and make repairs easier.
(Most of the Hypr Nalu wood boards are made with a thick veneer of tropical hardwood with a stringer that make and i-beam type construction, so they are very strong and durable - and look gorgeous - but they aren't particularly light. There is a video somewhere of a Hypr board being washed up over some rocks in decent surf, and when its brought ashore there are only minor scratches on it, which is incredible given the beating it was getting. So they are very tough. But my DW boards regularly take a battering in 30-50 knot winds so even the toughest construction is occasionally going to need a repair or two, and a carbon finish would be easier than a tropical hardwood one, I reckoned.)
Anyway, the next thing I know, Ian Foo is saying "right, I'm off to work on one (i.e. a 14ft gun design) now". And a couple of months later I get sent these pictures, to decide if this is the sort of construction I want. It is double-carbon full PVC sandwich, vacuum-bagged 3 times over a quality foam core, with wood block tail and noses. Yes, it is going to get crazy hot in the sun! But I have a Coreban exposed carbon 14ft DW board so I am used to having to take care of my boards and keep them in a board bag. So it doesn't bother me much - plus I live in the UK, and its not often particularity hot here...
(These pics are NOT of the 14ft Gun. They are of some surf shapes and the Hypr Nalu 12-6 race board. I'm just including them to show you the construction that the 14ft is going to be. But I've ordered my 14ft to have no dragon graphics - instead it is going to be a completely stripped-down black minimalist look, to let the materials shine through.)
I've already got their 10-6, 11-6 and 12-6 gun shapes. So I know quite a bit about how this design handles. They are crazy fast paddlers for surf shapes, and have very thin rails so they turn really well on a wave. They don't have much nose rocker so you do need to have quick footwork, and angle down the line in steep waves. But the pay-off is that they pick up every little ripple going, and are extremely fast down the line. And this also means that they pick up tiny downbreeze bumps incredibly well too. In fact I was out surfing the 10-6 recently, swapping between it and my SIC RS 14ft. The 10-6 actually seemed to be able to pick up the tiny little nanowaves (not more than 1ft) better than the RS, which was kinda freaky.
Anyway, I'm having to wait a few weeks yet before I find out what the 14 is like. But I'll let you know. Then I'll have to try to find a 9-6 Hypr Gun too, so that I have 9-6, 10-6, 11-6, 12-6 and 14 all in the same basic design concept: will make for some really interesting comparisons.
And if you go ahead with your crowdfunded hollow board, please let me know. That sounds like a really interesting project.
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The base of the VMG Mako 35 is 6.1”. It is a cutaway. Cutaways are good for decent DW conditions IMO.
Yes it is pretty much a Mako 37 with a reduced (cutaway) base but at 210mm or 8"25 it still has a lot of depth. I am trying to stay at 7" or close to see if it indeed improve any stalling on light conditions <20 knots. it is curious that Naish has stuck with fin-box placed so close to the tail (5" to 6") over the years. It does not seem to have bothered their riders like Casper and Kai or are they riding customs anyway with boxes closer to 12"?
The 35 Mako VMG Blades fin has a very unusual foil to it (it is much thicker off the leading edge than most, with fairly sharp leading and trailing edges). This makes it feel much smaller than it is in use - it feels no bigger than the 7.0 SIC Weedless. It also makes it very low drag. The only problem is that it is expensive, and also because they are so light weight (it’s like air!) they aren’t the most durable fins on the market. But they are aimed at the race specialist, and they are a very interesting concept that works well, pretty much unlike any other. And as I say, they paddle much smaller than they are. Real slippery. Try one if you can. No way in hell does it feel like any other 8” fin you’ve tried.
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The 35 Mako VMG Blades fin has a very unusual foil to it (it is much thicker off the leading edge than most, with fairly sharp leading and trailing edges). This makes it feel much smaller than it is in use - it feels no bigger than the 7.0 SIC Weedless. It also makes it very low drag. The only problem is that it is expensive, and also because they are so light weight (it’s like air!) they aren’t the most durable fins on the market. But they are aimed at the race specialist, and they are a very interesting concept that works well, pretty much unlike any other. And as I say, they paddle much smaller than they are. Real slippery. Try one if you can. No way in hell does it feel like any other 8” fin you’ve tried.
I used the Mako 37 a lot on the Ace-GT before going smaller with the Sonic. I was looking at getting a Mako 28 but they come out at $250 in Canada and that was getting very steep. I quite like it, but to your point all these carbon fins feel really light and I have always wondered if I might come back with the fin in case of a small piece of wood in the water or some shallow parts. A good old fibreglass fin makes me feels more secured when I am down-winding on my own:-)
Today I will try the SIC 7.0 with the promisse to bring it back to its owner :-)
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I am with you regarding the dragons :-)
I had a board that was exposed carbon and yes it becomes darn hot even when paddling.
Is there any way to tint the resin on the top layer?
Somewhat the wood also make these look very special - dan if you do dan if you don't....
Low volume, picking small bumps....what there is not to love.
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I am with you regarding the dragons :-)
I had a board that was exposed carbon and yes it becomes darn hot even when paddling.
Is there any way to tint the resin on the top layer?
Somewhat the wood also make these look very special - dan if you do dan if you don't....
Low volume, picking small bumps....what there is not to love.
Yeah, they will get hot, no doubt about it. Hypr can do these boards in a fancy Carbon vector net construction that would be much cooler. But I like the look of the carbon and am willing to accept the ownership issues. And yes, I do like the wood too - which is why I currently have three wood Hypr Guns. I don’t like the dragon motifs, but in some parts of the world they are very popular. I’ve had lots of useful discussions with the EU distributor about “European” graphics and colorways which in practice means more muted and traditional designs that show off the materials and craftsmanship to best effect. I don’t see the point in using really expensive materials (tropical hardwood is much more expensive than PVC foam) and creating such beautiful and complex shapes by hand, and then covering it all up with loud graphics. But each to their own. It’s amazing that they have listened however, and are willing to take these semi-custom orders.
I think that if you were to go for a resin tint you might a well do what I did with my custom UL and just have it as white as possible, maybe with thin slices of carbon reveal to show what is underneath.
Fortunately in the UK we don’t get really hot sun often. Although right now it is over 31C in some places here, so you’d certainly need a board bag today (the Hypr boards come with their own custom bags). Apparently, Ian Foo leaves these boards out in the sun all day in Hawaii (Big Island) without trouble. So they may get hot but it seems that they don’t delam or melt. They do have goretex valves.
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Btw, the cost of this strong and durable semi-custom, full PVC, double carbon Hypr 14ft board?
Much less than a (apparently fragile) Naish Maliko...
Hmm...
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Btw, the cost of this strong and durable semi-custom, full PVC, double carbon Hypr 14ft board?
Much less than a (apparently fragile) Naish Maliko...
Hmm...
Yes that kind of killed it for me....
I have also found that the cost become a question of how close are you from the distributor (for some brands) and what is the distributor bringing in his container.
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Btw, the cost of this strong and durable semi-custom, full PVC, double carbon Hypr 14ft board?
Much less than a (apparently fragile) Naish Maliko...
Hmm...
Yes that kind of killed it for me....
I have also found that the cost become a question of how close are you from the distributor (for some brands) and what is the distributor bringing in his container.
Hypr Nalu Hawaii ship worldwide :) :)
But you might wish to wait until I’ve tested this 14ft of theirs first...
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Hypr Nalu Hawaii ship worldwide :) :)
But you might wish to wait until I’ve tested this 14ft of theirs first...
There is that plus I rarely if ever buy a board full price or new....I am still broke regardless :-)
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On the subject of fragile Naish....the 2014 Javelin LE is right with the best or the worst....
Thankfully I got the board at a really, really good price. it had been raced a couple of time and there were some light damage on the right side from banging pricey boards against each other at a buoy turn when there is kilometres of waters around....
This is just the outer layer and nothing had gone through the carbon.
I am unsure how to fix this little crack for the peace of mind of knowing that not water will ever get in.
I put some marine epoxy and then wipe the surface so that hopefully some epoxy has stuck to the hairline but I am not sure that it is good enough.
Any valuable advice?
Thank you
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Deep fins tend to "stop" the board before it really takes-off and it is demanding on the engine to try to keep things going. The few times we get clean swell with space in between, I feel like a hundred million. It feels effortless and fast.
I am waiting for the next iteration of Larry Allison "Bump" fin short (7") with some area at the tip, to see it is a good compromisse between a fin with short base and "straight" lines and a fin with wide base and flex at the tip.
That's why I don't compromise on fin box placement. You can't find the right fin because you always have to make some sacrifice due-to the box.
That said, the SIC weedless should work well. Larry created that shape for the old Barks that had the fin all the way to the back as well. That was the Jim Terrell fin and I think I might have one of those somewhere, it has a slightly longer base than my SIC weedless and I could have really used one on today's session.
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Btw, the cost of this strong and durable semi-custom, full PVC, double carbon Hypr 14ft board?
Much less than a (apparently fragile) Naish Maliko...
Hmm...
That sounds like a killer board and i'm keen to hear about it once you have it. I might have one my self if it proves to be everything you'd hoped it would. and to think I can get one close to the dealer price of the Naish board just makes it a no brainer. I'll paint it yellow anyway with some carbon reveal at some key areas. It does get very hot where I'm at.
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Deep fins tend to "stop" the board before it really takes-off and it is demanding on the engine to try to keep things going. The few times we get clean swell with space in between, I feel like a hundred million. It feels effortless and fast.
I am waiting for the next iteration of Larry Allison "Bump" fin short (7") with some area at the tip, to see it is a good compromisse between a fin with short base and "straight" lines and a fin with wide base and flex at the tip.
That's why I don't compromise on fin box placement. You can't find the right fin because you always have to make some sacrifice due-to the box.
That said, the SIC weedless should work well. Larry created that shape for the old Barks that had the fin all the way to the back as well. That was the Jim Terrell fin and I think I might have one of those somewhere, it has a slightly longer base than my SIC weedless and I could have really used one on today's session.
I had the SIC 7.0 today on a light downwinder about =<20 knots (after a strenuous upwind...). The speed was good, the control was excellent but overall it felt too "tame". I did not get that great feeling when the board takes-off and you know that you need to step to the tail. Not sure how to describe it, the board did not loose much speed in between the bumps but did not accelerate as much either. it felt more like down winding a clog but with more directional control. I do enjoy the glide on the back of the board a lot more....maybe I need to give it more time but I am also going to try the Mako 35 until Larry's fin revision 3 comes out.
That was on the Javelin which I am planning to use mostly for flat water but you know how conditions are when you leave the beach but after that.....
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Btw, the cost of this strong and durable semi-custom, full PVC, double carbon Hypr 14ft board?
Much less than a (apparently fragile) Naish Maliko...
Hmm...
That sounds like a killer board and i'm keen to hear about it once you have it. I might have one my self if it proves to be everything you'd hoped it would. and to think I can get one close to the dealer price of the Naish board just makes it a no brainer. I'll paint it yellow anyway with some carbon reveal at some key areas. It does get very hot where I'm at.
If it is a new board that does not cost CAD 3,900 or more that would be a nice change. Naish are around CAD 3,300 full retail here. but less during the winter ;)
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It does not seem to have bothered their riders like Casper and Kai or are they riding customs anyway with boxes closer to 12"?
They do ride production boards but I've seen the fins they are using, 7" would be the deepest.
which is about the sweet spot for a box like that. When you get 30knots and up non of that really apply.
You have to remember the conditions they have and their skill level makes all the difference in the world. If you ever saw on of these top level guys in a technical bump session you'll be amazed, humbled and stoked all at once. It's a thing of beauty the way they move the board and how they move on the board.
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They do ride production boards but I've seen the fins they are using, 7" would be the deepest.
which is about the sweet spot for a box like that. When you get 30knots and up non of that really apply.
Yes I am looking at the most common conditions we have which is between 10 and 20 knots.
At 25 knots I just smile and forget about just anything....
You have to remember the conditions they have and their skill level makes all the difference in the world. If you ever saw on of these top level guys in a technical bump session you'll be amazed, humbled and stoked all at once. It's a thing of beauty the way they move the board and how they move on the board.
Yes Lincoln Dews and Fiona Wylde were here on a downwind race in my neck of the woods.....enough said! Glad I talk to them on the ground because in the water they were gone....I am long past the idea of buying something because the Pro are using it. Sometime it is exactly the opposite don't buy it because only the pros can use it...
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Btw, the cost of this strong and durable semi-custom, full PVC, double carbon Hypr 14ft board?
Much less than a (apparently fragile) Naish Maliko...
Hmm...
That sounds like a killer board and i'm keen to hear about it once you have it. I might have one my self if it proves to be everything you'd hoped it would. and to think I can get one close to the dealer price of the Naish board just makes it a no brainer. I'll paint it yellow anyway with some carbon reveal at some key areas. It does get very hot where I'm at.
If it is a new board that does not cost CAD 3,900 or more that would be a nice change. Naish are around CAD 3,300 full retail here. but less during the winter ;)
In the UK, the semi-custom double-Carbon full PVC sandwich Hypr Nalu Gun 14ft is costing me around the equivalent of 500 CAD LESS than a 2020 Naish Maliko would cost me.
Of course, prices of the different brands vary from country to country. But IMO this makes the Naish questionable value - and yet the Maliko boards are cheaper than many equivalent board here. A SIC RS will cost you the equivalent of 4500 CAD here - comfortably more than a Maliko (the RS has a fancier construction though.)
I guess that Naish, SIC and all the other “big” brands have relatively large marketing and sponsorship budgets to pay for, and complex distribution systems that eat up the customers’ money. Certainly, the customer service I have received from Hypr Nalu Hawaii in the UK has been really superb, and fully commensurate with a premium brand. Indeed, I’d call the service “elite”’rather than just premium. So although the Hypr boards are fully in the “premium” price bracket, they look good value next to Starboard, SIC, Naish, Fanatic etc when you compare what you get as a customer.
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I guess that we will all be waiting for the review :-) and start saving.......
That is also a board with some killer looks (without the killer dragons) so would boost a little bit my image back to years ago :-)
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I guess that we will all be waiting for the review :-) and start saving.......
That is also a board with some killer looks (without the killer dragons) so would boost a little bit my image back to years ago :-)
:) Well, it sure helps you justify to yourself emptying your bank account if the thing you are buying looks as beautiful as a work of art that would cost that much :)
I’ll need to find a 2020 Naish Maliko to do some back-to-back comparisons. But there aren’t that many around me. There’s a demo centre about 1.5hrs away that might have one perhaps (I tried a 14x26 2019 Maliko there). Most of the racing emphasis in the UK these days is on inland flat water. We get so much wind and unpredictable weather that it’s hard to plan and hold ocean events. So I’m guessing that it will be the Javelin that might outsell the Maliko here this year. Plus, few people can afford new race boards at the moment because our currency is going down the toilet because of Brexit, and everyone is holding off on big ticket purchases until we find out how big the economic disaster is going to be. Super-cheap inflatables are selling like hot cakes though. They are everywhere.
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Btw, has anyone here tried a JP Downwind Race? It looks to be an obvious competitor for the Maliko.
I notice that the fin box appears to be quite a long way further forward on the JP.
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Btw, has anyone here tried a JP Downwind Race? It looks to be an obvious competitor for the Maliko.
I notice that the fin box appears to be quite a long way further forward on the JP.
Wasn't impressed by it. I raced a guy who owned it who's considerably faster than me and he had hard time keeping up. When he switched to the RS it was business as usual.
As for the Maliko, tried it yesterday in small bumps (1ft max) choppy water 10knots wind.
Took my 7" surf fin. That really took care of the stalling in small bumps and I could finally get into some really good glides even in these small conditions.
Had to power up with more strokes to keep the momentum but now I know the potential is there for good fun on small days once I add new fin box.
Next thing to try is using a really small fin to mange good angling by drifting the tail. Tried it in the past on a board with much wider tail but my timing sucked so I couldn't get anything going. Maybe this time with better tail and improved timing I could make something happen.
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Thanks for the JP info. That brand seems to get a lot of lukewarm reviews for their distance SUPs...
It’s interesting how quickly that the SIC RS has become the standard to which other boards are compared. I guess it helps that they have wisely kept the same design.
It’s hard work in decent DW conditions round here though (25+ knots, short period, shallow, rippy and messy). Great for everything else.
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Thanks for the JP info. That brand seems to get a lot of lukewarm reviews for their distance SUPs...
I tried one of their race board, 2017 or 18 14x26 I believe, such an awkward board, was a dog too.
I'm sure some of it was due-to to the fact I switched with the guy going down from my Standamaran, but still...
It’s interesting how quickly that the SIC RS has become the standard to which other boards are compared. I guess it helps that they have wisely kept the same design.
If it ain't broken don't fix it. Naish been consistent with the Maliko for years now as well. minor to no changes year to year. Try and sell that to Starboard
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As for the Maliko, tried it yesterday in small bumps (1ft max) choppy water 10knots wind.
Took my 7" surf fin. That really took care of the stalling in small bumps and I could finally get into some really good glides even in these small conditions.
Had to power up with more strokes to keep the momentum but now I know the potential is there for good fun on small days once I add new fin box.
Next thing to try is using a really small fin to mange good angling by drifting the tail. Tried it in the past on a board with much wider tail but my timing sucked so I couldn't get anything going. Maybe this time with better tail and improved timing I could make something happen.
I do some of that based on our conditions. Sometime before the inflow really set-in we have zones of light wind 10 knots but with very small bumps that are cleaner.
I have found that with the 2018 Maliko (box 6" from tail) and the GTS fin (wide base/7.75 depth) I could often power to a decent speed and catch glides sometime with quite a few links and prevent the stalling.
With the Javelin (box 5"2 from tail), I could not get that until I changed to a shorter fin (Sonic and SIC 7.0) so an inch might make a difference. I have fitted a Mako 35 to the box of the Javelin to try next. The Mako 35 will not fit in the box of the Maliko that is shallower than the box of the Javelin.....
Now I am tempted to try the mini GTS - the center fin for 4D - (6.5 depth) and the Sonic/SIC on the Maliko.
With the mini GTS, I am not sure that I will have enough "projection" to get the board to speed or if we get to the other part of the runs into stronger wind, big messy chop if I will make it through standing :-) the other bummer is that the mini GTS does not fit properly in the box of the Maliko and if it does not fit properly, I am not taking a chance on the water.
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Now I am tempted to try the mini GTS - the center fin for 4D - (6.5 depth) and the Sonic/SIC on the Maliko.
The GTS would be my first choice only I don't have it with me right now, same goes for the Dolphin mini, both at 6.5". I'll try them both but I'd rather address the issue itself rather than work around it and compromise. As for the fit, 10 minutes and a little UV Resin and you're setup for good.
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As for the fit, 10 minutes and a little UV Resin and you're setup for good.
Yes but then it does not fit in the box of my Ace-GT anymore :o
I did use the good old tape and eraser to make a good fit that I can reverse later.
See what the conditions are this week-end for testing.
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I love fins, and enjoy playing around with them to find the best setup. But I find that if I have a board where I am still feeling the need to change the fin after a long time, or am considering extreme solutions, then it usually means that there is some aspect of the board design that is suboptimal.
By contrast, there are some boards that you can for almost any fin too and it seems to work well.
Mind you, even after 13 years of experimenting with SUP fins, on many dozens of fins and boards, I can still be surprised. For instance, I put a 404 True Ames 9.25” race fin my 11-6 Hypr gun the other day, when I was going to be using it for touring rather than surfing. I put it in purely as an experiment, thinking that such a big fin in such a relatively low volume (for an 11-6 surf SUP) board would be draggy and stiff. But to my great surprise it works really well, and better in that board than in any other I’ve tried it in. It might be something to do with the deep double concaves in that board - but, actually, I’m still not entirely sure. It should have been overkill, but it isn’t.
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Out of curiosity, I downloaded an application for measuring areas from a picture.
I used a fin with known measurements to kind of calibrate my technique.
The LA GTS 7.5 came out at about 39 sqi (same than GT Moray)and the LA mini GTS 6.5 came out at about 29 sqi.
That put them on par with the Mako 37 and the Mako 28 for comparison purposes.
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You are lucky being able to get LA fins where you are. Seemingly, I can’t even find out about those fins never mind buy them here in Europe.
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You are lucky being able to get LA fins where you are. Seemingly, I can’t even find out about those fins never mind buy them here in Europe.
Direct from Larry or there are a couple of online stores in the USA that might ship to teh UK but stock and models are limited at any given time:
https://www.paddlesurfwarehouse.com/paddle-board-brands/fibre-glass-fin-co-larry-allison (https://www.paddlesurfwarehouse.com/paddle-board-brands/fibre-glass-fin-co-larry-allison)
These are the two GTS I am talking about 6.5 and 7.5:
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You are lucky being able to get LA fins where you are. Seemingly, I can’t even find out about those fins never mind buy them here in Europe.
Probably not for you anyway Area. You do not like fins with a lot of base if memory serves :)
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You are lucky being able to get LA fins where you are. Seemingly, I can’t even find out about those fins never mind buy them here in Europe.
Probably not for you anyway Area. You do not like fins with a lot of base if memory serves :)
It depends. The drive that a long base can give can be useful for downbreezing. But my conditions are very rippy and messy, and strong currents under the surface of the water will drag at long-based fins and encourage broaching, and long bases also make cross-wind and -chop much more difficult to deal with since they anchor the board’s tail so much, and so increase weathervaning.
So, if you paddle in nice clean non-tidal waters and rarely above 20 knots then wide bases can be very useful. But there comes a point somewhere around 6.5” I think where the shortcomings outweighs any benefits if you paddle in highly variable conditions.
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I have found that a deciding factor inducing broaching is how strong and at what angle the tide is.
Ebbing tide against wind direction might be slower overall but gives better glide conditions.
So from that point of view, shorter base definitely works better as long as there is enough wind/push so you don't need the wider base to get the speed into the bumps. But I have also found that longer depth fins are as detrimental regarding the above.
This is part of my playground:
1) River with strong current coming from the glaciers
2) Sand bars
3) Tide sometime quite strong
4) cliffs
5) thermals or system wind depending on conditions and time of day
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I’d broadly agree with that. But some fin area down low can be useful to stabilise the board if the water is very turbulent: you can’t get into the bumps if your board is on a rail. This is why I like the Longboard House Squirrel Cutaway Fin or FCS Fat Boy for DW. Short base, low area, but some area down the tip end. Not so great for less than 20 knots but really comes into its own from 25. Looks odd as hell but they work really well. Cheap and tough too, compared with these super-expensive SUP fins we are all paying through our noses for.
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Agree with A10 about fcs fat boy - works really well - I have 2 (9 &10 versions)
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I was on the water today on the Maliko with the little 28 sqi/6.5" GTS and it was really fun. Definitely there is something with the 7" magic number for a fin box so close to the tail.
Bit of tide, not much wind. Maybe 12 knots at the end. Definitely board feels a lot looser.
Now I am not holding my breath for much hold with such a small fin when the wind picks-up.
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I’d broadly agree with that. But some fin area down low can be useful to stabilise the board if the water is very turbulent: you can’t get into the bumps if your board is on a rail. This is why I like the Longboard House Squirrel Cutaway Fin or FCS Fat Boy for DW. Short base, low area, but some area down the tip end. Not so great for less than 20 knots but really comes into its own from 25. Looks odd as hell but they work really well. Cheap and tough too, compared with these super-expensive SUP fins we are all paying through our noses for.
I was on the Javelin with the SIC 7.0 yesterday.
Started with no wind but plenty of chop (residual of unstable conditions plus tide flowing). On the last 3 km I got bit of wind like 15 knots and some stiffer chop (tide against river current against wind). The small SIC fin kept me on my toes. I got sloppy (one of my knee is hurting) and was a little sluggish with my lateral weight distribution. The board told me off - if you want me to keep nice and flat then you have to treat me better :-)
I guess that is the drawback of a short fin. Nice, fast and easy until conditions increase. Have to try out a cutaway to check how it goes.
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Ha! Coincidence - I downwinded using the 8.3” SIC Weedless yesterday, fitted in an 11-6 Hypr gun.
I hear you say “you can’t downwind an 11-6”. Well, you certainly can downwind this one. I was amazed at how well it caught the bumps. I was even railroading from one bump over the top and into the one in front. The 8.3” is normally too big for me in eg. my SIC RS, and I prefer the 7.0. But in the 11-6 the 8.3 worked really well, although actually it might have been nice if the base were a tiny bit longer when paddling upwind on that board - would have improved tracking. I’ve got a Slater Trout Carbon 8.25” coming soon and I might try that in it. I need a base length somewhere between the True Ames 404 fin and the SIC 8.2, with a bit of area at the tip.
It’s such a shame that Futures, True Ames, Rainbow etc seem to almost have stopped making SUP single fins. There is a lot less choice than there was about 5 years ago. I don’t really trust the FCSII fittings in many boards, especially not in big DW conditions, so that rules out most fins from FCS.
I wish Larry would make more fins with shorter bases too. And I had an easy way to buy them in the UK.
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Turning into a fin fest! Looks like I might need some new fins.
Any more info on the Maliko. What is the bottom shape like. Any pics of the bottom.What sort of speeds are doing/averaging.
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Turning into a fin fest! Looks like I might need some new fins.
Any more info on the Maliko. What is the bottom shape like. Any pics of the bottom.What sort of speeds are doing/averaging.
Good point - Burchas has gone very quiet about this, so we’ve had to fill in the gaps with fin talk. But what we really want to know about is what he’s done to this poor board. It’s probably a frankenboard by now :)
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Turning into a fin fest! Looks like I might need some new fins.
Any more info on the Maliko. What is the bottom shape like. Any pics of the bottom.What sort of speeds are doing/averaging.
Good point - Burchas has gone very quiet about this, so we’ve had to fill in the gaps with fin talk. But what we really want to know about is what he’s done to this poor board. It’s probably a frankenboard by now :)
A wild guess is that he could have had the fin box moved forward and resolve the issue of finding the best fin to complement the board :-)