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General Category => Gear Talk => SUP Gear Reviews / Newly Acquired / On Order => Topic started by: burchas on August 21, 2019, 11:06:35 AM

Title: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 21, 2019, 11:06:35 AM
After 7 custom boards decided to give a production board a go.
Naish Maliko has been my gold standard for an all around performance board for quite some time but the changes they made for this year made me pull the trigger on a 14'x26"x7.5" @ 273 liter.

Changes to the nose with more aggressive entry and slightly higher volume really translates well in head wind bumps and entry in downwind bumps good improvement over past models. Will be interesting to see how the increase in nose rocker will perform in heavy downwind conditions.

The increase in volume around the entry rocker also improves the ability to pickup smaller bumps in marginal conditions, less laborious than previous models.

Both primary and secondary stability are confidence inspiring, making walking the board and bottom turns more natural. It also improves behavior in side chop, comfortable handling.

The increase in nose volume and thickness does affect side wind performance but with the increase in nose rocker and the generous amount of forward foot placement allowance I was able to mitigate the affect quite easily.

Rails thickness around the standing area is about 5.5" but the deck is recessed. I haven't measured it yet but with my 190# it looks like I'm about 3"-3.5" above the waterline.

Deck pad is thin, grippy and comfortable just how I like it.

Carrying handle has deep recess on both sides with enough grip even for long fingered individuals.

Board feels noticeably  lighter than previous models, I'd say around 23-24# but I'll measure it as soon as I have a chance.

Bottom contours are same as far as I can tell, rounded to a double concave to a V.
all super subtle and not noticeable to the naked eye.

As for criticism:

Construction does not feel rock solid. There is some sort of an extra layer on the rails something that looks like a super thin version of an helicopter tape but that's part of the construction and not removable. It's noticeable because the board finish has matte everywhere outside of the rails.

Board still have noticeable flex but less than past models.

As expected, fin placement remains and that's not a good thing. Based on converted past models the fin box should be anywhere between 16"-21" off the tail instead of the 5.5" it is right now. I'm really not sure what's that all about but most leading brands already caught on but Naish still stuck in the past.

As before the omission of multiple leash plugs, handle mounts, action camera mounts and bungie attachment is a sore spot and should have been addressed, might make the board a lot more appealing for a broader spectrum especially in light of the very popular SIC RS that offers that convenience built-in for sometime now.

As for how she paddles, still early days but this is quite a pleasant board to paddle in any condition, feels faster than what a 26" wide board should feel but I'll post an actual data as soon as I have it.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on August 21, 2019, 12:05:09 PM
Thatís a very good review, thanks for posting. Nice board.

How stable is this board compared with last yearís model?

Iím baffled by that fin box placement. Presumably when you are surfing it, your back foot will be ahead of the fin?

When it is unladen, there seems to be a substantial amount of the nose out of the water. How much is, when a person is on board?

The rocker kinda reminds me of the old Harold Iggy Naish designs, with a fairly flat area where you stand and stretching  to the tail, but a marked amount of nose rocker that starts quite abruptly forward of where you stand. It made the boards a bit tricky to surf, but they worked well in the fiats and downwind. It would be interesting to see the board side-on, resting on a couple of trestles deck down, or on a roof rack.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 21, 2019, 01:04:19 PM
It seems to me like primary stability is improved but that's tricky to say unless you have them side by side.

When surfing you back foot will be "way ahead" of the fin ::)

I'll have someone take a picture with me on board to really see how it seats in the water. The nose doesn't seems to be sticking out like that but I guess it remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on August 21, 2019, 01:25:49 PM
First reaction was yummy!
Better handle, bit lighter, easier to pickup small bumps.
Tempered with doubts on the construction and more side profile.

Now I am really curious about what is the effect of the new tail shape.

To be frank, I do not worry too much with the fin box placement in the 2018 Maliko in our conditions.
I just stuck the GTS forward when it is windier and back when it is less. SO far no problem with directing the board which is very counter-intuitive as most boards have their box a foot or more from the tail....so I do not really understand it.
Granted on the other hand a pivot fin like the Naish one on the 2014 Javelin makes it really easy to move around on the bumps at the price of sometime burying the nose and rounding the board if daydreaming in a strong gust....and having less low end to catch breezers.

Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: JEG on August 21, 2019, 02:16:53 PM
looks like a surf/dw kinda of board burchas and probably better on bigger bumps than little ones. I dought its stable than square tail and pivot turns might be tricky for some. Hopefully, better construction than previous years  ::)
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on August 21, 2019, 03:20:30 PM
looks like a surf/dw kinda of board burchas and probably better on bigger bumps than little ones. I dought its stable than square tail and pivot turns might be tricky for some. Hopefully, better construction than previous years  ::)

Credit to the 2018 construction. It is very sturdy and gives you confidence in the board. At 28/29 lbs there is a penalty fro this.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 21, 2019, 06:10:15 PM
Now I am really curious about what is the effect of the new tail shape.

To be frank, I do not worry too much with the fin box placement in the 2018 Maliko in our conditions.

First, pivot turn is much smoother on this board. With the fin box better situated, I could pivot turn it easily even when heavy chop and wind hitting from the side. Same idea translate when trying to connect short period bumps without stalling the board to a point where I miss momentum.

The pintail help in that regard and in achieving better top speed but that ties in to the fin placement, which in its current position is stalling the board unless using very shallow fin.

The pintail will give you smoother handling in bigger/rougher conditions

Not even bringing surf into the mix as I need to log in more hours.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on August 21, 2019, 06:15:26 PM
Same idea translate when trying to connect short period bumps without stalling the board to a point where I miss momentum.
The pintail help in that regard and in achieving better top speed but that ties in to the fin placement, which in its current position is stalling the board unless using very shallow fin.

Sold. That is what I was kind of hoping for.

How shallow have you used a fin on the Maliko? I have not gone under 7" 1/2 with  some sweep.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on August 21, 2019, 06:33:09 PM
On a different topic. How do you like your Bump fin? Larry has not sold me one yet.....but hope he will soon.
After more use on a different board than your custom, how doe sit feels compared to the GTS and the GT?
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 22, 2019, 05:56:59 AM
How shallow have you used a fin on the Maliko? I have not gone under 7" 1/2 with  some sweep.

Went from 9" down to 6.5" Including the Naish stock fin (MFC Racing 22CM) which is a good fin just not for this board, it really chocked the board in small bumps. It would be much more fitting if they included the MFC Kai DW at 20CM if anything.

From the little feedback I have, I would not use a fin deeper than 7" in flat water if I really want to push speed. The LA Bump is still a work in progress, the next iteration will be foiled with concavities around the bump on the trailing edge, slightly more surface area at the tip and it will lose the flex.

Hoping to modify the board soon. Add my fin boxes, few more plugs and have it painted yellow ;D Then I could really send my buddy at Naish a good feedback on how a perfect board looks like.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on August 22, 2019, 12:21:34 PM
How shallow have you used a fin on the Maliko? I have not gone under 7" 1/2 with  some sweep.

Went from 9" down to 6.5" Including the Naish stock fin (MFC Racing 22CM) which is a good fin just not for this board, it really chocked the board in small bumps. It would be much more fitting if they included the MFC Kai DW at 20CM if anything.

From the little feedback I have, I would not use a fin deeper than 7" in flat water if I really want to push speed. The LA Bump is still a work in progress, the next iteration will be foiled with concavities around the bump on the trailing edge, slightly more surface area at the tip and it will lose the flex.

Hoping to modify the board soon. Add my fin boxes, few more plugs and have it painted yellow ;D Then I could really send my buddy at Naish a good feedback on how a perfect board looks like.

Thanks Burchas, I just spoke with Larry and he explained the state of the prototyping and the next step.
It sounds good to be able to keep a low profile at 7", a nice release but keep some hold too.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on August 22, 2019, 02:44:53 PM
Is it me or it seems that the fin box in the 2020 might even be an inch or 1/2 inch closer to the end of the tail than in the 2018/2019?
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on August 22, 2019, 02:55:55 PM
It would be much more fitting if they included the MFC Kai DW at 20CM if anything.

That fin looks like a long curved blade with no base/width.....
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 22, 2019, 07:15:42 PM
It would be much more fitting if they included the MFC Kai DW at 20CM if anything.

That fin looks like a long curved blade with no base/width.....

Yes, but it has yellow in it and that's all you really need for DW performance ;D

Notes on construction:

Board gets marked easily and it shows, construction doesn't feel as sturdy as your 2018.
Hope I won't have to find it the hard way but I'm really pushing this board hard trying it in some violent waters which means some paddle hits when few nasty cross bumps sent me flying.

Good news is the board has really good stability even though it does feel like I'm sitting a little higher on the water than previous models.

Going back to fin box, how far back is yours? It could change from board to board you know...
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on August 22, 2019, 07:21:36 PM
Yes, but it has yellow in it and that's all you really need for DW performance ;D

:-) :-) :-) Speaking like a true David Jones .... I have three yellow. Like them all. Not sure that I am a lot faster.....

Going back to fin box, how far back is yours? It could change from board to board you know...

Maliko 2018 fin box is 6" from tail
Javelin 2014 fin box is 5" 2/8 from tail
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 22, 2019, 07:55:12 PM
.... I have three yellow. Like them all...

Now I'm jealous. That's the one feature I really can't leave without.

As for the fin boxes, you can see some arbitrary numbers there. mine is more like 5" 5/8
But I rounded it down to 5.5 just because it was easier to relate. I'm sure they meant to put it at 6" but that's so unimportant to them they just "eyeball it" these days.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on August 22, 2019, 08:07:07 PM
1,2,3.....
Not a good picture but you can see the yellow :-)
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 22, 2019, 09:32:11 PM
BTW, sitting a little higher on the water meaning a little less water on the deck.

That also means more rail travel which does help with rail steering. I'll have to further analyze what they did with the under tuck on the rail to help with the secondary stability but all good features and they found a good balance imo.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on August 22, 2019, 09:42:41 PM
BTW, sitting a little higher on the water meaning a little less water on the deck.

That also means more rail travel which does help with rail steering. I'll have to further analyze what they did with the under tuck on the rail to help with the secondary stability but all good features and they found a good balance imo.

All good but it is not yellow.......and I am broke........
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 23, 2019, 04:01:30 PM
So I finally did it, I'm surprised it took me that long but here it is
Some more on this here: https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,35189.0.html
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on August 23, 2019, 04:05:45 PM
So I finally did it, I'm surprised it took me that long but here it is
Some more on this here: https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,35189.0.html

2018 it is. Maybe I should also buy a 14x24" just in case I ever become good :-)
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 24, 2019, 05:17:14 AM
Iím sorry this has happened to you: that looks like it will be an expensive repair to a nearly-new board, and then there is the cost of the broken paddle too.

How did the board surf?

The board pickup small waves easily and with the correct foot placement it could be controlled comfortably all things considered but as you'd expect, it wouldn't be my first choice surfing big boards. Fin placement was an issue in small waves and with a 8.5" deep fin I was testing, I felt the glide was suffering and I had to keep paddle to keep the momentum.

In fact, I was on a wave towards the beach to replace to a smaller fin when this happened.
I moved towards the center of the board to put in few more strokes and generate more speed as the wave reforms but with the sandbar changing, I hit a section where the wave became steep very abruptly and along with the speed and board trim, it sent me flying head first.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on August 24, 2019, 05:53:18 AM
Thanks. Surfability was one of the weaknesses of the Iggy Naish boards that had a similar rocker principle, so I did wonder. I often end up surfing my 14ft (and 16ft) Boards, either on small offshore waves or when coming to shore when downwinding so itís important to me that they surf well. Itís one reason Iíve ordered a 14ft Hypr Nalu Hawaii Gun. The 11-6 Hypr gun is only 5% slower in mixed flattish sea conditions than a 14x26 SIC RS when paddles by a couple of average paddlers, so Iím hoping that a 14x26 Hypr gun might be close enough in speed to the RS in everyday conditions that unless you are racing it wouldnít really matter. Anyhow, that Iggy-type rocker does tend to be highly effective for downwind though (if a bit technical in messy conditions) and decent in flat water too. So I guess you canít have everything. Itís just a bit annoying that you canít when it leads to dings like this.

Please post pictures of the repair. Bummer - to ding both board and paddle in one incident is very unlucky.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: JEG on August 25, 2019, 03:18:08 PM
that sux burchas about your new board.
I would suggest getting custom made boards from now on since you know what you really want?
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 25, 2019, 06:53:09 PM
that sux burchas about your new board.
I would suggest getting custom made boards from now on since you know what you really want?

I have to say I had it coming ::) I'm usually not gentle with my equipment, especially when exploring all conditions and I am used to custom stuff with good construction that can take some beating.

This board is a part of my next custom board project. There is a lot to love about this board, obviously construction is not one of those things but it is very light for a 14x26.

Had a fun downwinder today on it. Taped the nose for now until I get it modified.
Not optimal conditions, with strong tide coming in and wind direction shifting to some side
but the board handles adversity very well and still manage to feel lively.

The nose can take some hits from side bumps and still keep the momentum with some maintenance strokes. When I bury the nose from time to time it pops out better than previous models.

Board generates good speed (up to 9.5mph) even on a day like today where conditions are far from ideal on bay conditions with good fetch. Low teens to mid 20's with some dead sections.

Fin box placement is still an issue for me.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: JEG on August 25, 2019, 10:39:35 PM
I agree and would stay away from some of these brands and exploring custom board to your liking is the right thing for you unless you find a good reputable brand. Crosswind sux and the last time I experience one it wasn't nice and I ended up laying down to paddle with my hand freestyle.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on August 26, 2019, 04:22:50 AM
How fast is the 2020 Maliko in pure flat water? The Glide Mk2 models were surprisingly good and had a similar rockerline, perhaps. In fact this board kinda makes me think of that one, in concept. It was very fast DW.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 26, 2019, 04:36:48 AM
How fast is the 2020 Maliko in pure flat water? The Glide Mk2 models were surprisingly good and had a similar rockerline, perhaps. In fact this board kinda makes me think of that one, in concept. It was very fast DW.

Iíll reserve the pure flat water speed tests to when Iíll add my fin boxes so I can actually run comparisons with original fin box and send my guy in Naish real data.

Iím going to measure the rocker line for this board along with footage of how it sits in the water once I found the best trim. Iím not sure I understand what makes this rocker so good for DW.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on August 26, 2019, 05:33:54 AM
Flat-ish rocker from tail to about two-thirds forward gives it good pace for accelerating into the bump, then when you get forward you are pointing the tail up (for maximum push from the bump) but the nose is horizontal-ish, meaning that again the board is moving forward fast with little drag. These boards are kinda a two-stage design I think, contrasting with the continuous rocker like the JL M14. Highly effective most of the time but you are likely to find some conditions every once in a while where it is an inexplicable handful I think.

Isnít it a return to this kinda board for Naish (below)?But with the edges knocked off (literally), and a bit more moderate? A proper downwinder. It was a very versatile board, and is still one of the fastest DW you can get, even all these years on.

https://youtu.be/UKk7RGqn9Lk
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on August 26, 2019, 07:39:32 AM
I love the series of video from Cape Town. I am not sure why they stopped doing them after a while.

You mean like this:
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 27, 2019, 06:29:31 AM
Isnít it a return to this kinda board for Naish (below)?But with the edges knocked off (literally), and a bit more moderate? A proper downwinder. It was a very versatile board, and is still one of the fastest DW you can get, even all these years on.

I really liked that board and I would be content with it if not for the weight.

Looking at the video though I couldn't help but notice that it does take a good effort to angle it on the face of the bump and the need for consistent paddling through the smaller sections.

I'm pretty sure the fin box placement has a lot to do with it. I believe the box is in the same place as with today's boards and they're probably using an 8"-9" surf type fin which explains the extra effort.

If you compare it to the Bayonet with a much better box placement and a continuous rocker, the difference in effort level is substantial.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on August 27, 2019, 09:50:35 AM
Well, I prefer continuous rocker. But in everything except nuking downwind I think it is slower. Or, I should say, that if an elite paddler is on a ďtwo-stageĒ rocker board, they can be faster than in the same one with continuous rocker, at least under 30knots. But Iíd rather have an easier ride with more control than a technically difficult board that is 0.2% faster. But most racers would sacrifice everything for that extra 0.2% so I may not be the typical Maliko buyer. The V2 Glide was crazy fast in the right conditions but it did sometimes demand concentration in messed-up stuff. I remember DWing with a buddy of mine who was on one when I was on a Coreban Dart 14x30. While the wind was only 25 knots and well lined up he was killing me. Then the wind jumped to 35 and we hit an area with rebound and steep sections and he virtually came to a standstill while I took off, having a great time.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on August 27, 2019, 07:16:10 PM
Well, I prefer continuous rocker. But in everything except nuking downwind I think it is slower.

That wouldnít be the case with the Bayonet. You ought it to your self to try it in a 20 knots or so wind.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on August 28, 2019, 02:09:54 PM
Well, I prefer continuous rocker. But in everything except nuking downwind I think it is slower.

That wouldnít be the case with the Bayonet. You ought it to your self to try it in a 20 knots or so wind.
Well, as I said, *I* would be faster with a continuous rocker. But most elite paddlers probably wouldnít. The problem is the speed when you are not on a bump, and the inherent acceleration advantage of a flat(ish) rocker. Having said that, I downbreezed my Hypr 12-6 gun today, which has a continuous rocker (but not much rocker overall) and it seemed fast for a 12-6, albeit I had to be quick with my feet. So, it is all a very complex interaction between the board, the rider, and the conditions.

I have often thought about the Bayonet. But too many people who have tried one have reported to me that doesnít cope with messed-up swell very well. But messed-up swell is exactly what I have a lot of where I live. Here, the Bullet V1 works better than the V2 Bullet. Iím also not a fan of really thick boards for downwinding. Corky boards just get pushed around too much by crosswinds and refracted swell here: you need to be able to stay close to the water and not present it with opportunities to throw you around. Downwinding in Hawaii is done in waters that are much deeper than the extremely shallow waters round here, and the fetch in Hawaii is probably much longer.  I think it affects which board designs work.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on September 01, 2019, 05:59:32 AM
Ready for some shallow fin testing...
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on September 01, 2019, 06:08:02 AM
Naish 2020 Maliko rocker. Neutral position on flat surface.
Nose: 7Ē
Tail: 1.5Ē
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on September 01, 2019, 07:54:27 AM
Naish 2020 Maliko rocker. Neutral position on flat surface.
Nose: 7Ē
Tail: 1.5Ē

On my 2018, measured against the bottom of the board right under the tip of the nose is 6" and tail is 1"6/8 (1.75").
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: tarquin on September 01, 2019, 09:47:03 AM
Helpful info for me. I have 4" on the nose and 1.5 on the tail of the board I have designed. 7 seems a lot.
 How about fin box placement in those boards
Thanks
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on September 01, 2019, 10:52:32 AM
I know that this sort of ďtwo stage rockerĒ, where the rear two thirds or more is fairly flat and then the nose takes a sudden upward trajectory, can be highly effective in a downwind board. But it just looks wrong to me somehow... :) Iím not sure that I wouldnít prefer a bit more tail rocker and a more gradual and relaxed nose rocker. But Iím sure that Naish will have tried that and can suppose therefore that it didnít work. Maybe it just because my DW conditions are so often steep short period stuff so Iíve often got my back foot over the fin, using all the tail rocker I can get, and sharp changes in rocker sometimes (but not always) make it harder for me to get over a bump and into the one in front. But thatís probably just a shortcoming of my technique perhaps.

The Imagine Connector also has a fairly abrupt nose rocker. But maybe it also had a touch more tail rocker than the Maliko? That Connector design (by Dave Kalama, ex-Naish of course) seems to have garnered some very positive reviews as a downwind board. Maybe they ended up coming around to Kalamaís way of thinking, after all :)
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on September 01, 2019, 02:00:45 PM
...But it just looks wrong to me somehow... :) Iím not sure that I wouldnít prefer a bit more tail rocker and a more gradual and relaxed nose rocker...

That's exactly what I meant by "I don't understand this rocker". It just looks wrong and yet works really great.

Mind you, I'm not entirely sure this is how it sits on the water. There might be a chance the Nose/Tail ratio will change once I found the right trim.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on September 01, 2019, 07:51:33 PM
True. But it probably canít change that much or else the tail will be out of the water. Perhaps you could take a picture sideways on when someone about your weight is standing at the handle. I tend to take video of someone else paddling my board sideways on, at various positions just an inch apart, on a sheltered canal near me, to find the best trim for a new board, itís interesting how the trim sometimes changes for some boards under hard paddling: If a person of a certain weight canít get that tail to release then itís all over, speedwise, really. Some of the early JL race boards tended to drag their tails no matter what you did. The Sidewinder doesnít, though.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: tarquin on September 01, 2019, 10:21:24 PM
Even if I know this 2 stage rocker works from reviews I didn't do it because it doesn't look right. I had a lower section in the rail just in front of the standing area at one point. Like on a kayak so you don't hit the rail when paddling. It just didn't look right though. This would also help any water coming over the nose shed off the deck before coming into the standing area.Like the scow bow in mini transat boats, sometimes things don't look right but they work.
 
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on September 02, 2019, 02:16:06 AM
Even if I know this 2 stage rocker works from reviews I didn't do it because it doesn't look right. I had a lower section in the rail just in front of the standing area at one point. Like on a kayak so you don't hit the rail when paddling. It just didn't look right though. This would also help any water coming over the nose shed off the deck before coming into the standing area.Like the scow bow in mini transat boats, sometimes things don't look right but they work.
Thatís a good example, and the skow bow has been used in a SUP:
https://thepaddlermag.com/2015/07/02/magic-carpet-ride-nah-skwell-scow-12-6ft/

I paddled one. It went well downwind and was quite fast in flat water and upwind in ripples. But it was less successful upwind when the chop was bigger. Thatís a lot of nose area you are presenting to oncoming waves. But in the right conditions it would be really good, and it did show that a 2-stage rocker could be fast.

There are some occasions going upwind when it is more efficient to try to reduce the pitching of the board by digging the nose slightly into the top of oncoming waves. But this is hard to do with a two-stage rocker type board - you have to get so far forwards. Consequently they can pitch quite a lot going upwind in bigger stuff and if the tail rocker isnít perfect then the tail creates a lot of drag as the nose lifts so much. Iíve been impressed by how well the Hypr gun goes upwind, for this reason - low rocker, pointy nose, narrow tail, and low volume all mean that you can push through the waves and reduce pitching, which aids speed. The dreaded upwind ďnose lift then slapĒ that slows you down so much is nonexistent.

But maybe the Maliko has got the dynamics just right. Youíd need to see video of it being paddled upwind in 1ft chop to know.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on September 02, 2019, 09:31:16 AM
But maybe the Maliko has got the dynamics just right. Youíd need to see video of it being paddled upwind in 1ft chop to know.

It feels much better than previous models in that regard but that's just a feeling, I can't back it up with numbers yet but it is on the agenda.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on September 05, 2019, 01:31:15 PM
Too close to the tail  ;)
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on September 05, 2019, 01:31:50 PM
Ready for some shallow fin testing...

How did it go?
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on September 09, 2019, 11:46:13 AM
So I have been looking at all my short fins last week and of course fitting is always the issue.
I wish that the same company (Naish) would keep using the same type of fin box over time.
The Javelin is fitted with a US box (low pin)
The Maliko is fitted with a Longboard (Bahne) box (high pin)

I have been epoxying and drilling holes for pins on several fins so they fit in the respective box. The drawback is that some of the fins I am trying are now dedicated to one board and not the other.

"from Baddog. The Bahne Box fin has a 9mm base width that is shallower and has a higher pin position. The US Box fin has a 9.2mm base width that is deeper with a tab and has a lower pin position. The Bahne Box is thinner and shallower vs the US Box which is deeper and wider." Combination from Hell......
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on October 23, 2019, 09:55:30 AM
I agree, it is infuriating. It doesnít help that there are various names for the same boxes as well. Basically, it would be easier if they just called them either a ďsurf boxĒ or a ďwindsurf boxĒ.

The specialist SUP fin brands also often donít make it clear which type of box they fit either. Which adds in another level of confusion.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on November 27, 2019, 12:34:20 PM
It would be much more fitting if they included the MFC Kai DW at 20CM if anything.

I put an order for one of these KAI DR ó DOWNWIND RACING SUP 22cm.
After the success of running teh Mako 35 on my Maliko, I am curious to try this shape and a yellow fin :-)

Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on November 27, 2019, 05:24:40 PM
It would be much more fitting if they included the MFC Kai DW at 20CM if anything.

I put an order for one of these KAI DR ó DOWNWIND RACING SUP 22cm.
After the success of running teh Mako 35 on my Maliko, I am curious to try this shape and a yellow fin :-)

Cool 8). I'd expect it to be more reactive than your Mako. I've been running the Dolphin Junior at 8" deep for anything over 20knots. Still looking into the Bump at 8" with a sweep somewhere between the the Kai DR and Dolphin.

The Maliko 2020 is really a fun downwind board up 25 knots in our conditions, but in general, requires a really good motor to perform in confused water.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on March 06, 2020, 06:05:00 PM
I received teh MFC Kai Downwind fin.
Boy is it small. I am not sure that I am good enought to manage this small....
It is 8.66 in by 4 in and maybee 20~22 sqi.
See compared to various fins.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on March 07, 2020, 09:40:12 PM
You'll have to look on the bright side and no, I'm not talking about the Yellow ;D
But with 6 month lead time, it better deliver fireworks. Sheesh, I thought Larry was slow.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on April 13, 2020, 06:42:40 AM
After much neglect the Naish Maliko finally gets some attention and it's eager to perform ;D

https://youtu.be/eoydOYTH9hU
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on April 13, 2020, 07:53:20 AM
After much neglect the Naish Maliko finally gets some attention and it's eager to perform ;D

https://youtu.be/eoydOYTH9hU

You forgot to put the bumper tire to protect the nose.....
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on April 13, 2020, 02:37:35 PM
After much neglect the Naish Maliko finally gets some attention and it's eager to perform ;D

https://youtu.be/eoydOYTH9hU

You forgot to put the bumper tire to protect the nose.....

If you look closely, it's there ;)
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on April 13, 2020, 02:43:20 PM
You forgot to put the bumper tire to protect the nose.....
If you look closely, it's there ;)

Not even close......
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 09, 2020, 01:10:04 PM
It would be much more fitting if they included the MFC Kai DW at 20CM if anything.

I put an order for one of these KAI DR ó DOWNWIND RACING SUP 22cm.
After the success of running teh Mako 35 on my Maliko, I am curious to try this shape and a yellow fin :-)

Cool 8). I'd expect it to be more reactive than your Mako. I've been running the Dolphin Junior at 8" deep for anything over 20knots. Still looking into the Bump at 8" with a sweep somewhere between the the Kai DR and Dolphin.

The Maliko 2020 is really a fun downwind board up 25 knots in our conditions, but in general, requires a really good motor to perform in confused water.

Finaly got a chance to take the fin out on the Maliko with expectation of a 25 knots downwinder.....not to be  :'(
So as expected with the 4 inches base, not much "projection" when putting some effort into the paddle but no problem with tracking at all.
Got in a bit of a downbreezer, and the low end is a little bit missing on the other hand as expected, cutting across small bumps is like nothing.
no chance to see how it behaves when riding the tail obviously.
No problem with stability but these were not exactly trying conditions.....
I can this fin shining on criss-crossing clean bumps and stronger wind but a very limited range to make it shine.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 10, 2020, 03:58:29 AM
2+1 type fin setups are the only way to go for unruddered DW boards IMO.

Much more control and drive, and scope for experimentation. Use 50-50 foil side bites.

This fin might come into its own if you had side bites. Without it you are just not going to have any drive, and control in all but the lightest conditions will be reduced.

So many times, I hear people saying that smaller fins are ďfasterĒ. I can see the logic: less fin area = less drag. But actually, a fin is there to help you not hinder you. Even a small amount of loss of drive and control (ďdriveĒ being the name already used by the surf community in relation to fins) can had an absolutely paralysing effect upon your speed. Having too small a fin is just like having a loose steering wheel if you were racing a car on a track. Itís not going to make you faster, and you will crash.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 10, 2020, 07:32:59 AM
Currently these are the fins I have for downwinding/downbreezing with boards from 250L to 319L.

Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 10, 2020, 08:35:36 AM
Nice.

Iím ashamed to say that Iíve got too many fins to list :)

I must have a dozen different fins of one general design principle alone (Squirrel Cutaway/Fat Boy/Koalition Boomerang).
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 10, 2020, 09:01:05 AM
Squirrel Cutaway

I have been tempted to try a 8" one on the Maliko but we have not that many true >25 knots days so it is always a fight between 15 and 25 knots days and I think that it could be the same issue than the MFC DW fin, not enough low end to get the speed.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 10, 2020, 02:00:35 PM
Squirrel Cutaway

I have been tempted to try a 8" one on the Maliko but we have not that many true >25 knots days so it is always a fight between 15 and 25 knots days and I think that it could be the same issue than the MFC DW fin, not enough low end to get the speed.

The 8Ē is too small. 9Ē for light winds, 10Ē for full-on downwinding.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 10, 2020, 02:29:56 PM
Squirrel Cutaway

I have been tempted to try a 8" one on the Maliko but we have not that many true >25 knots days so it is always a fight between 15 and 25 knots days and I think that it could be the same issue than the MFC DW fin, not enough low end to get the speed.

The 8Ē is too small. 9Ē for light winds, 10Ē for full-on downwinding.

9" in the box of the Maliko so close to the tail, would it not kill the speed and stall the board?
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 10, 2020, 02:47:42 PM
Squirrel Cutaway

I have been tempted to try a 8" one on the Maliko but we have not that many true >25 knots days so it is always a fight between 15 and 25 knots days and I think that it could be the same issue than the MFC DW fin, not enough low end to get the speed.

The 8Ē is too small. 9Ē for light winds, 10Ē for full-on downwinding.

9" in the box of the Maliko so close to the tail, would it not kill the speed and stall the board?
No.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 10, 2020, 03:59:52 PM
Seems like getting a Squirrel Cutaway from the USA is a mission in itself, so ordered locally a FCS Fat Boy to play with.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on May 11, 2020, 05:42:28 AM
Squirrel Cutaway

I have been tempted to try a 8" one on the Maliko but we have not that many true >25 knots days so it is always a fight between 15 and 25 knots days and I think that it could be the same issue than the MFC DW fin, not enough low end to get the speed.

The 8Ē is too small. 9Ē for light winds, 10Ē for full-on downwinding.

9" in the box of the Maliko so close to the tail, would it not kill the speed and stall the board?

You answered it your self when you described your first try. If you haven't had any issue with tracking, it might suggest you have enough surface to push off of so the next culprit is depth, especially if you had it in the position posted in the picture.

Never had any tracking issues on this board, not even with a 4" fin. on the other hand, when it comes to downbreezing and light winds, haven't had a good experience on anything deeper than my 7.5" Dolphin Junior, regardless of surface area. The Dolphin Junior is 47sqi which is highest I've ever used on this board but it's working well on light winds, especially when there is less trimming and more rail steering which the 2020 Maliko is really good at. It's the deeper fins that I usually found under-preforming in these conditions.

As for the board it self, I found the 2020 Maliko to be a real joy in light conditions, it feels so much more buoyant than its volume might suggest so it's not surprising that its upwind performance are noticeably better than previous versions which in turn, makes upwind/downwind sessions much more agreeable. It's on the upwind part where I found the Dolphin Junior and its hefty surface area much better suited for this board.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 11, 2020, 08:54:04 AM
The MFC fin base is half the box so if I put it full forward, the pin at the back is very close to the edge of the opening. I am always worried to break the box if doing this....
To make matters more complicated, the Maliko box also has a slight wedge on the opening starting back. It makes it easier to get the fin in but it limits the fins that you can put right up front. i.e. SIC 7 or the GTM 6.5 cannot go all the way to the front....
Yes I had this sense on the bumps that the board is "holding" back instead of going. Still going fast but not the same feeling of release if that makes sense.
I wish one could rewind in time and do the exact same run with a different fin :-) just to test

I am curious to see if the 9" Fat Boy dear to Area10 would have the same effect. I need longer week-ends and more paddling days....
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on May 11, 2020, 09:24:03 AM
I am curious to see if the 9" Fat Boy dear to Area10 would have the same effect. I need longer week-ends and more paddling days....

I can't see it doing anything to improve on that. When you want better feeling of release as you described, you don't choose a fin with more hold. Maybe if you were to try some downwind nose riding, which would be cool, but the Maliko is not the board for that anyway :)
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 11, 2020, 09:32:32 AM
I am curious to see if the 9" Fat Boy dear to Area10 would have the same effect. I need longer week-ends and more paddling days....

I can't see it doing anything to improve on that. When you want better feeling of release as you described, you don't choose a fin with more hold. Maybe if you were to try some downwind nose riding, which would be cool, but the Maliko is not the board for that anyway :)

I remember - not fondly - these first downwind days when I tried to walk the nose of the board...with my face
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 11, 2020, 09:41:50 AM
The hold of a squirrel cutaway-type fin is when you are *on* the bump, not when you are off it. Remember that the fin also works to collect power from the bump too. So sometimes if you go too small you are missing out on that.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 11, 2020, 09:43:58 AM
Btw do you know for sure that FCSII fins fit in a Maliko? I assume the Fat Boy is FCSII click-in? They donít fit many SUPs.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 11, 2020, 11:24:54 AM
Btw do you know for sure that FCSII fins fit in a Maliko? I assume the Fat Boy is FCSII click-in? They donít fit many SUPs.

I have FCSII dolphin fins that I use on my Nalu and they fit the Maliko box (which look like a Bahne box).

Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 11, 2020, 11:30:03 AM
The hold of a squirrel cutaway-type fin is when you are *on* the bump, not when you are off it. Remember that the fin also works to collect power from the bump too. So sometimes if you go too small you are missing out on that.

I won't pretent that I understand anything about fin. I just try them :-)

This is what the spiel on the squirrel concept says:

Why does this funny fin work you say? This fin works purely by its design. The very narrow base (where the fin meets the board) allows water to release when you want the board to change direction quickly (and I mean lighting quick; can you say 360s). This same low drag at the fin interface to the board is what makes it so fast down the line (ever noticed the dimensional keel ratio of modern sailboats built for speed; small where it meets the hull for speed and quick tacking, large at the bottom for stability and drive). The large ball shape at the bottom of the fin is where the stability, drive and holding power comes from on heavy bottom turns at speed and when you are hanging ten over the nose. The narrow neck with the large ball shape at the end also allows the fin to flex and snap you out of your turns with tremendous acceleration; but with your complete control. Think of a dolphins tail when they whip it and how the snap of that large rear fin thrusts them forward at incredible speed.


This is from Longboard House which seems to be teh only one doing these fins anymore and it is based of course on surfing.

That said I am planning to look funny with my friends by pulling out the small GTM 6.5 and the FatBoy at teh same time  ;D AT the end of teh day I might end-up just putting the Mako 35 or teh GTS 7.5 instead but still will make them scratch their head....
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on May 11, 2020, 11:48:39 AM
That said I am planning to look funny with my friends by pulling out the small GTM 6.5 and the FatBoy at teh same time  ;D AT the end of teh day I might end-up just putting the Mako 35 or teh GTS 7.5 instead but still will make them scratch their head....

Don't you have a Spartan in your quiver? Big head, moderate base and leading edge more upright than the dolphins. Put it in and see how you like it. Although better suited for higher volume tails, it should give you some indication before you go and spend more.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 11, 2020, 01:38:26 PM
That said I am planning to look funny with my friends by pulling out the small GTM 6.5 and the FatBoy at teh same time  ;D AT the end of teh day I might end-up just putting the Mako 35 or teh GTS 7.5 instead but still will make them scratch their head....

Don't you have a Spartan in your quiver? Big head, moderate base and leading edge more upright than the dolphins. Put it in and see how you like it. Although better suited for higher volume tails, it should give you some indication before you go and spend more.

The Spartan is way too much fin for the Maliko. If it was a "mini" Spartan now that could work.
I don't mind the Fat Boy because:
1) I can get it locally without shipping (getting a fin from the US is just a killer now with 1.4 exchange, freight and clerance supe rexpensive...)
2) I wanted to try one on my Naish Nalu anyway
3) It says flex....I like flex and fin together
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 11, 2020, 03:29:13 PM
Some data on the Javelin and Maliko.
Left is anything from flat water to upwind to choppy to 25 km day tour.
Push is something like a downbreezer
DW is more wind obviously
Tide is when w ehave a strong tide like 4  meters and a serious push as a result
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 11, 2020, 03:31:56 PM
Squirrel Cutaway

I have been tempted to try a 8" one on the Maliko but we have not that many true >25 knots days so it is always a fight between 15 and 25 knots days and I think that it could be the same issue than the MFC DW fin, not enough low end to get the speed.

8Ē is too small. Too small. Too small. Too small. Too small.

The 10Ē would be a much better choice than the 8Ē. I wonder if you are actually losing drive because you are using fins that are too small. Just donít use wide-based fins for downwind. Having too little fin area, especially low down in the water, actually makes it harder to get into small bumps because the fin is not helping collect the energy and lift from the bump, and you lose forward drive because your rear end moves about too much.

A friend of mine who is a very experienced DWer fitted a thruster setup in his custom DW board. The logic was that he wanted to enhance the turnability of the board. But he found that the board became *less* manoeuvrable not more. This was because fins are there to help you turn, and go forwards, not hinder you. Stick a ridiculously small fin in your Maliko (eg. a 5Ē surf fin), and youíll see what I mean - itís not easier to get into bumps, itís harder.

Btw, Koalition now make the ďboomerangĒ fin, which is basically extremely similar to the Squirrel Cutaway. Except they are a thinner foil and are lighter, both of which are better for SUPs.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 11, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Squirrel Cutaway 8Ē is too small. Too small. Too small. Too small. Too small.

That is probably why I ordered a 9" Fat Boy :-)
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 11, 2020, 03:42:44 PM
I wonder if you are actually losing drive because you are using fins that are too small. Having too little fin area, especially low down in the water, actually makes it harder to get into small bumps because the fin is not helping collect the energy and lift from the bump, and you lose forward drive because your rear end moves about too much.

So far it did not feel like it except with the GTM 6.5 (unles it is fairly clean and very small conditions).
My go to fins for now for light conditions are the Sonic (7" depth, 33 sqi) for teh Javelin and the Mako 35 (8.25 depth, 35 sqi) and GTS (7.75 depth, 39 sqi) for the Maliko. Except that the box of teh Maliko and teh Allround are different so I have to pick which one I want to use so for now teh GTS is going for the Allround.

The MFC DW left me a little bit unsure. It felt like more work to keep speed than another fin but on the other hand the average speed was good and there was no issue with tracking. It was just this subtle feeling that at certain time, the board should have "taken-off" and I should have had to go back more. I have been enough on teh Maliko by now to feel that I could have got more from that session. Going across chop was on the other hand quite easy and keeping some speed. That said I have become better at it and for once it could be the paddler be efficient rather than teh equipment :-)
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 11, 2020, 03:52:58 PM
The Mako 35 is ok for light DW.

Most specialist SUP fins on the market have too wide a base for ďproperĒ  downwinding. And/or they have too little area at the tip.

Link to Koalition. They have international distribution. They are made beautifully, and are a lot cheaper and more durable than eg. the Black Project or VMG fins.

https://koalition-project.com/produit/boomerang-9-0/

If Iím using this type of fin as a single fin I use the 10Ē unless Iím paddling in just ripples. I use the 9Ē with 50-50 foil side bites and it is beautiful - low drag plus good tracking and manoeuvrability. If I had a Maliko Iíd fit side bite finboxes to it.






Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 11, 2020, 04:01:05 PM
The Mako 35 is ok for light DW.

Most specialist SUP fins on the market have too wide a base for ďproperĒ  downwinding. And/or they have too little area at the tip.

Link to Koalition. They have international distribution. They are made beautifully, and are a lot cheaper and more durable than eg. the Black Project or VMG fins.

https://koalition-project.com/produit/boomerang-9-0/

If Iím using this type of fin as a single fin I use the 10Ē unless Iím paddling in just ripples. I use the 9Ē with 50-50 foil side bites and it is beautiful - low drag plus good tracking and manoeuvrability. If I had a Maliko Iíd fit side bite finboxes to it.

Funny I almost pull the trigger on the 9" orange boomerango but at GBP 70 plus shipping it was a little bit too rich (1 Pound sterling equals 1.73 Canadian Dollar!).

https://www.surfsurfsurf.co.uk/longboard-and-retro-surfboard-fins/koalition-boomerang-longboard-surfboard-fin-9-inch-orange (https://www.surfsurfsurf.co.uk/longboard-and-retro-surfboard-fins/koalition-boomerang-longboard-surfboard-fin-9-inch-orange)

I might not have a Maliko at the end of the season but an option on a Sunova Torpedo........with a properly located fin box.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 11, 2020, 04:44:48 PM
Area10, Burchas,
By now you realize that you guys are both experienced downwinder and have both "opposite" approach to (light) downwind fins to some extend :-)
One is going for wide base, surface at the bottom and shorth depth (i.e. Junior Dolphin, GTS)
The other for short base, surface at the top and longer depth (i.e. Squirrel, Fat Boy)

Mako 35 and others are likely somewhere in the middle.

But you guys agree on one point - we want FLEX in our fins :-)

You also agree on side bites for >30 knots

WE shoudl list all teh points that you are agreing and disageing upon and why. That would be a great tool for DW fin selection.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 11, 2020, 11:25:36 PM
I think it just depends on your local conditions, as with your choice of board. My local conditions are very rippy, with lots of refraction and multiple directions of swell. The bumps are also steep, caused by (often strong) wind acting against strong tides. In those kinds of conditions, wide-based fins tend to get caught by the currents, so you need a narrow base. But at the same time you need some hold to prevent spinning out, and fairly low drag, especially since getting into bumps created by wind acting against currents takes a lot of effort and you have to get well forward on the board to angle it - further forward than most ruddered boards will allow, if you want to have your foot on the tiller. Also, steep short period bumps are surfed pretty much exactly like waves. So itís handy to be using a longboard fin designed for surfing.

So, squirrel cutaway type fins are a unique combination of characteristics that work really well for these conditions. But as with everything else about downwinding, what is right for you will depend a lot on your conditions. For instance I have been tempted by the thought of getting one of the new SIC Bayonets or Bullets. But bitter experience tells me that high-sided boards round here feel like you are balancing on a log, and the thick rails catch every little bit of cross-wind and messed-up swell going, meaning you are constantly fighting to stay going in the direction you want to.

So I canít guarantee that the fat boy will be the perfect solution for you. But it is very versatile and strong, and you can use it for surf too. Maybe youíll want to go back to wide-based fins. But just maybe you will put it in, and like I did, you have a lightbulb moment. This is most likely to happen if your waters are ďdifficultĒ. It is a ďdifficult watersĒ fin. Many other fins work well in nice little well-mannered ripples, including the Mako with the cutaway (although it is ridiculously expensive and fragile).

I use the 9Ē Koalition boomerang (which is pretty good value here in the UK) with FCSII carver quad 50-50 foil rears in my Hypr 14 gun. Itís a highly unlikely but crazy good setup for just about everything - surf, downwind, flat water.  Sounds nuts, I know, but it actually works great. You have to be open-minded when it comes to fins, and experiment with a lot of different combinations. I spent an absolute fortune on multiple specialist fins before finding that the much cheaper and more durable squirrel fin that has been around for decades actually works great. The fat boy is also pretty good, and if it fits your finbox perfectly, being able to pull/push it simply in and out is a boon for DW where you might be stacking boards on vehicles etc. But the foil is slightly thicker so itís a tiny bit more drag than the squirrel cutaway or the boomerang. Still works great though - but reserve judgement until you have a day where the conditions are tricky. Thatís when it shines. On a low wind easy-conditions small day you might as well use the small Mako or the SIC 7.0 weedless.

So, in short, Iím not sure there is a difference of philosophy from burchas. I think any apparent differences is more likely because of the different conditions we paddle in. On a nice summer day with a gentle breeze around high tide (when currents are least and water is deepest) I sometimes use the same fins that you have got, and more besides. For instance the FCSII Kalama 9Ē SUP fin works quite well in my 16ft boards in very light conditions - itís low drag for its size and doubles as a decent touring fin. So, itís not as if I only use the fat boy/squirrel design: You match the fin to the conditions, as with surfing.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 12, 2020, 07:23:30 AM
My local conditions are very rippy, with lots of refraction and multiple directions of swell. The bumps are also steep, caused by (often strong) wind acting against strong tides. In those kinds of conditions, wide-based fins tend to get caught by the currents, so you need a narrow base. But at the same time you need some hold to prevent spinning out, and fairly low drag, especially since getting into bumps created by wind acting against currents takes a lot of effort and you have to get well forward on the board to angle it

That is pretty much the Squamish Harbor on a windy day, with wind and tide bouncing off the cliffs, river and sand banks. It gets more difficult when the wind abates some and that leaves the churn but not the push. We have both outflow and inflow, sometime in teh same day. The few times I got into some clean aligned  bumps, it was like Heaven and so effortless.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 12, 2020, 09:41:48 AM
But the foil is slightly thicker so itís a tiny bit more drag than the squirrel cutaway or the boomerang. Still works great though

In the big picture, how much difference does the thicker foil makes IYHO?

ps:
I just checked base dimensions.
The Boomerango pins would come right at the opening in the middle of the fin box so I woudl have to position the fin in the middle of the box.
The Fat Boy FCSII system will fit in the front of teh box with the fin right at the front. This should more than make it for a thicker foil.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on May 12, 2020, 02:47:25 PM
In the big picture, how much difference does the thicker foil makes IYHO?

Depends how much thicker. Too thick and you'll feel like you're towing seaweed. Can shut down your ability to catch bumps but can be useful for control if you're dealing with power.
Too thin and you'll be fighting the fin. I was talking to one of the carbon fin companies sales guy about how they control flex on their downwind fin so he says: "Flex? we have flex fins" He showed me how their fins
are flexing right from the base... ??? So that was a very thin foil.

I gave one of my custom fins done by a specialist to a general water sport manufacturer, told them I want to replicate the fin. The layup was different and they couldn't replicate the intricate foil whiteout grinding too much
material. After two attempt they gave up. Needles to say the difference was noticeable. Foil matters a lot.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on May 12, 2020, 02:59:26 PM
Debates about equipment in general are interesting but it's more of disservice to anyone sifting through the thread trying to find helpful tips about the Naish Maliko 2020 in particular or about the Naish Maliko in general since the differences between the boards are incremental year over year.

All my comments are related to my experiences on the Maliko in various conditions, so inline with trying to keep the debate within the context of the thread. This is where I suspect the differences in opinions derived from.
Having access to various types of boards in these conditions gives me some base for comparisons describing the Maliko but only putting the hours on the board really gives one a sense of what may or may not be an accurate assessment imo. Same goes for fins, what may work well on a surfy type of downwind board may not work well on race board such as Maliko.

With this in mind the Dolphin mini 6.5" deep with a 5.75" base and 29sqi area is my go to DW fin for the most part. It might be on the smaller size but it would work for most conditions you'd think about taking the Maliko. when it gets to a point that I can really surf the faces of  the bumps, I'm going to a different board anyway. I would go slightly deeper like 7.5" but I feel that the 5.5"-6" base size is the best compromise between paddling and riding bumps, for this board that is.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 12, 2020, 03:27:25 PM
Thank you both.
Yes I am looking strictly within the context of the Maliko for downbreezer and downwind in up to 25~30 knots.
Mostly the challenge that the positioning of the fin box at 6" from the tail can represent fro the enjoyment of the board.

The closest I can see for the size of Mini Dolphin I have is the GTM 6.5 x 6.5 28 sqi roughly
I am mostly trying to optimize both end of the range.
Bumps are too valuable to waste :-)

I could likely just put the GTS or the Mako 35 at all time and be happy but if I can get this little bit extra glide on a downbreezer that brings you toward the tail or the added control in 25 knots that allow you link and keep the glide across confused bumps without ending up against a cliff face instead of my landing spot....or stalling and doing the mad elevator

I think that for the summer, I will try the Fat Boy in the whole range and the GTM in the lighter conditions too. I already know that the GTM cannot quite cut it in the steep confused stuff.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 12, 2020, 03:33:53 PM
Foil matters a lot.

I do agree. I am just not sure if a small difference in thickness is a totally deciding factor. i.e. "thinner foil are faster" not that it is what you guys have been saying of course.
In any case seing that the Boomerang would not work in my fin box....Fat Boy it is.

Anecdotally, when I ride my Javelin 2014 (an ancestor of the Maliko) I can feel a difference between the SIC 7.0 and the Sonic. The Sonic is a bit faster and the SIC gives a bit more control if down winding. Outside of teh different shape both fins are 7" deep and the SIC is thicker than the Sonic.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 12, 2020, 04:11:15 PM
The foil differences between the Fat Boy and the Boomerang arenít so big as to exclude the fat boy. I use both. Sometimes the convenience of the FCSII click-in system is pretty darned useful on a multi-board, multiple-run DW day. The Fat Boy is also a pretty strong fin. When Iím DWing in over 30 knots Iím usually coming ashore on stones and having to put the board down on tarmac etc., and it can be a real PITA in those situations to have some insanely expensive super-fragile carbon fin. Itís just asking for trouble.

You really should try a 10Ē fat boy sometime. I know you think it is waaay too much. But I just ask you to be open-minded about it, and give it a try if you get a chance. These fins feel much smaller than they are. The 9Ē on its own is still a low area setup.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 12, 2020, 04:22:59 PM
The foil differences between the Fat Boy and the Boomerang arenít so big as to exclude the fat boy. I use both. Sometimes the convenience of the FCSII click-in system is pretty darned useful on a multi-board, multiple-run DW day. The Fat Boy is also a pretty strong fin. When Iím DWing in over 30 knots Iím usually coming ashore on stones and having to put the board down on tarmac etc., and it can be a real PITA in those situations to have some insanely expensive super-fragile carbon fin. Itís just asking for trouble.

You really should try a 10Ē fat boy sometime. I know you think it is waaay too much. But I just ask you to be open-minded about it, and give it a try if you get a chance. These fins feel much smaller than they are. The 9Ē on its own is still a low area setup.

Thanks fro the confirmation. And yes sometime not to have to look for the FCS key and not drop a nut in teh grass from frozen fingers are small blessings.
If the 9" works nicely then.....I could see a 10" maybe for both my Nalu and my Allround or for 30 plus knots when we have that chance.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 13, 2020, 11:15:38 AM
I have been loking at wether I should run the MFC fin with the pin close to the opening of teh box.
The fin all the way upfront sure do look like a better option.
Have you had any experience breaking the corners of a box if the pins are not just in the middle in between opening and end?
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on May 13, 2020, 01:32:33 PM
Never had any issues, even when it was the other way around where the plate was around that area. As long as the fin is really firm and has no wiggle whatsoever I think you'll be goo.
You could alter the position of the pin if really want to put your mind at ease. It's pretty straight forward and quick.

BTW, what's the distance from the middle of the fin to the rail line of the board?
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 13, 2020, 01:34:35 PM
Never had any issues, even when it was the other way around where the plate was around that area. As long as the fin is really firm and has no wiggle whatsoever I think you'll be goo.
BTW, what's the distance from the middle of the fin to the rail line of the board?

Thnaks Yuval, that is great.
You mean sideway or to the tail?
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on May 13, 2020, 01:35:16 PM
Sideways
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 13, 2020, 03:13:34 PM
So it is 7" both side (which is great).
ENd of the box to tail is just under 6"
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on May 13, 2020, 08:57:08 PM
With these measurements you might feel the fin in small downbreeze bumps. That usually means itís holding you back. might translate better in bigger bumps.

How stiff is the fin or how far down does it flex when you push it sideways when firmly in the box?
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 13, 2020, 09:48:02 PM
With these measurements you might feel the fin in small downbreeze bumps. That usually means itís holding you back. might translate better in bigger bumps.

That was my first impression

How stiff is the fin or how far down does it flex when you push it sideways when firmly in the box?

Not bad at all, the last third of the fin is fairly flexible with a good deflection
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 15, 2020, 08:02:13 AM
The rabbit ear has arrived.
So here are the test subjects for this summer downbreezing and downwinding the 2018 Maliko:
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 15, 2020, 09:11:28 AM
Looks good. One of those three fins will be great for surfing your board too :)
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 15, 2020, 10:55:18 AM
Looks good. One of those three fins will be great for surfing your board too :)

You had in mind something along these lines:
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: DavidJohn on May 15, 2020, 01:14:06 PM
Looks good and should work great.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 15, 2020, 01:35:33 PM
Looks good and should work great.
I couldnít agree more.

But then again, DJ is always right :)
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 15, 2020, 01:37:59 PM
But then again, DJ is always right :)

Yes and he lives in the land where they are at least two used Maliko 14x28 for sale....versus none here....
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 16, 2020, 04:38:32 AM
But then again, DJ is always right :)

Yes and he lives in the land where they are at least two used Maliko 14x28 for sale....versus none here....
I tried DJís yellow/orange era 14x28 Maliko and really liked it. How does the construction of the 2020 model differ from the earlier designs?
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on May 16, 2020, 07:03:42 AM
But then again, DJ is always right :)

Yes and he lives in the land where they are at least two used Maliko 14x28 for sale....versus none here....
I tried DJís yellow/orange era 14x28 Maliko and really liked it. How does the construction of the 2020 model differ from the earlier designs?

It's lighter and stiffer than previous models (2019/2018) closer to the 2017 in specs. If you are a serial abuser of equipment, probably not a good match for you :)
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 16, 2020, 07:20:12 AM
Ok, so itís not full PVC sandwich?

Iíve been pretty impressed so far with the construction of my 2020 SIC RS (made in the Kinetic factory I think). Full PVC sandwich but still nice and light.

More and more these days Iím looking at construction as a selling point of a board. Itís good to know what you are actually paying for. Or maybe the customs and Hypr Hawaii boards I now own have made me realise what a weight off my mind it is to know that a board can take a bump of two without shattering like an eggshell, or disintegrating all by itself just sitting in storage. Durability is something Iím willing to pay for.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 16, 2020, 07:28:58 AM
The 2018 is heavy - 29 lbs for 267L - but it is strong and I have no worries downwinding.
In comparison the 2014 Javelin LE is light at 23~24 lbs but I hold back as it always feel that I will break it.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 16, 2020, 07:53:51 AM
Was the 2018 the PVC sandwich one?
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 16, 2020, 07:55:54 AM
Was the 2018 the PVC sandwich one?
Yes it was. WIth just one "stringer" of carbon.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: burchas on May 16, 2020, 08:07:57 AM
I wasn't impressed with the Maliko 2020 construction to say the least. They could have definitely taken a page out of SIC's construction book, and the finishing touches book for that matter.
extra leash plug on the front, bungie cord, multiple handles options and a GoPro mount goes a long way, would make it much more complete board. I'm not sure how haven't they realized these are good and useful selling points.
At least they realized that a 29LB for a 263L board is not a selling point ;D
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 16, 2020, 08:24:42 AM
Yes from a fixtures point of view it is a bit of an odd ball.
Excellent perfromance design but weight should disqualify it as a race board.
No extra at all, barebone.
Weight does not help for light conditions.
Ok fro downwinding but not everybody wants to DW a 26" wide board.
If that board could have been manufactured by Jimmy Lewis......
It seems diffiuclt sometime to have great design and great construction into one package.....
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 16, 2020, 11:13:17 AM
Yes from a fixtures point of view it is a bit of an odd ball.
Excellent perfromance design but weight should disqualify it as a race board.
No extra at all, barebone.
Weight does not help for light conditions.
Ok fro downwinding but not everybody wants to DW a 26" wide board.
If that board could have been manufactured by Jimmy Lewis......
It seems diffiuclt sometime to have great design and great construction into one package.....
The SIC boards (and Infinity) are made in the same factory (Kinetic, Vietnam) as Jimmy Lewis now I think. They use a high pressure moulding system, and as far as my experience goes, this factory manages the best lightness-to-durability ratio of any of the bigger brandsí factories. The quality of the finish is superb too. IMO they make the Cobra-built stuff look like slapdash crap. I wouldnít have bought a 2020 SIC RS if it hadnít been full PVC and made in that factory. But since I knew it would be light and durable, it was worth it to upgrade from my older RS. PVC wrap is typically quite heavy so itís surprising that they manage to make them so light, really.

I had a Jimmy Lewis 14x23 Sidewinder that was built in that factory. Man that board was light, and it took a real beating yet still looked great. If the Naish Maliko was built to those specs, and had all the trimmings (itís amazing how handy bungees can be if you use the board for training a lot, isnít it?) it would be a real step up in performance and ownership delight. I suspect that SIC gets the little details right simply because Mark Raaphorst paddles so much himself.

My Hypr Hawaii 14 has bungees at the back, which works surprisingly well for touring because when side winds hit the load it is doing so where the fin is, so you donít get as much of a windvane effect as when the load is at the front.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 16, 2020, 06:46:01 PM
Yes the factory Infinity are of super quality.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 24, 2020, 03:15:37 PM
The rabbit ear has arrived.
So here are the test subjects for this summer downbreezing and downwinding the 2018 Maliko:

So I had one ride with the FatBoy and one ride with teh MFC (positioned at the front of the box).
I did not feel that the FatBoy even at 9 inch was really slowing down the board on "flat" nor did I feel that it was specially beneficial - neutral. In confused waters, definitly working good with the tip acting as a sideway stop. I need more wind to get a better feel taking glides.

I had an interesting paddle with the MFC fin this time push all the way to the front of the box. I say that the couple of inches make a big difference. I had a bit of micro bumps, the kind that requires a lot of finesse to get anything out of it. I was pleasantly surprised by the fin this time. Definitly a different feel, but working these at a bit of an angle was very pleasing. Straight at 90 degrees to the bump was neither good nor bad, just like many fins.

Both fins are very good when cutting across quartering of side chop, tide, wind.

I want to try the Fat Boy on the Javelin, I have a gut feeling that it will either work perfectly or suck big time and put the brakes on, no middle ground.

I also have a Boomerang on its way from the south of England :-) might as well complete the testing this summer.......


Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Area 10 on May 24, 2020, 11:36:29 PM
I see - you thought that the orange Boomernang would go well with the Naish course, did you, so couldn't resist? :)

Koalition must be wondering why there is such a rush on boomerangs. I've bought 4 of them myself and friends have bought more. Before, I had to import True Ames/Longboard House Squirrels from the US, or the Netherlands etc.
Title: Re: Maliko 2020 porn pics and mini review
Post by: Luc Benac on May 25, 2020, 07:05:10 AM
Went for the clear 😊