Standup Zone Forum

General Category => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Admin on August 19, 2019, 05:58:59 AM

Title: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on August 19, 2019, 05:58:59 AM
Stoked to have some Axis foils on the way!  I recently spent a little time on a 28.5" (72.4 cm) GoFoil mast and found that a lot more comfortable (less twitchy) than the 32" that I have been using.  It makes leveling out so much nicer.  I didn't want to go back to the longer mast :).  I ordered 3 masts (all right around 100 bucks) to dial that in (60, 68, 75).  I see a lot of riders on ~65 (25.6") and I want to check that out.  It is amazing how a (seemingly) little mast length can change things.  I really like the simple modualrity of the Axis design.  It will be cool to check that out and see how these things work.   More parts!  Chan is thrilled :).
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on August 19, 2019, 06:34:37 AM
I hope you ordered a base plate for each mast. Thatís how I roll. I have a rack of masts in my van. Grabbing the length needed for the conditions.

Youíll want to cut up a beer can and use that to shim the base plate to the mast tight. Hammer it on. Then never take it apart. They donít fit tight by design anymore, from most brands. Too many kooks complained about not getting them apart when they were designed tight. I know of only one brand that press fit the base plates on the mast and supplied them with each mast.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on August 19, 2019, 07:58:16 AM
Hey Dwight.  I hadn't thought about that.  Are you changing mast length a lot?  I was thinking I would experiment a little and see which felt best and then stay there for a while.   What length have you been using with the wing?  What foil sizes?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on August 19, 2019, 09:02:15 AM
My experience is all surfing based....still no 5m Duotone.

I use a 70cm mast on Neil Prydeís biggest wing most often. Iíd switch to 75cm on bigger days or wind blown days, if I had one. Thatís when the wing breaches are more likely. 65-70cm reacts quicker surfing.

With my Axis 102 Iím using the 75cm. The idea is to wing sail it. Maybe SUP surf it on small days. I think wing sailing downwind will mean sloppy seas, so longer is better. Maybe even 80cm. Iíd cut one to hit 80cm. Donít care for 90cm, unless kite racing. So far, Iíve only taken the Axis for a spin with my kite. It didnít like being driven by a kite. Too stiff handling for such a small board (20Ē wide). The big NP wing is much looser, but itís smaller.

There is no need to be higher than necessary. I just want to foil with minimal ricochets off the water. Whatever mast it takes to hit that goal. Although when mixing in wind power, a longer mast lets you heel the board over steeper and that makes it point much higher upwind. Thatís why I go long for racing upwind.

I windsurf 80cm mast. Custom cut for Slingshot Infinity 76 wing.

So you need a full rack of masts in the van  ;D
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on August 19, 2019, 05:17:01 PM
Great info.  I am stoked to check out the different sizes.  I had a great day on my old 82 cm mast today (really nice 20-25 on my 4 meter wing) but I have to be very gentle with my front foot.  Push down and let up a little too much and it can really go drive-wild.  The 72 is much more mellow like that.  Don't get me wrong, it is exciting to feel that acceleration but I could stand a middle ground :).  Our group was ear to ear grins today.  This sport is stupid fun!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on August 19, 2019, 08:05:24 PM
I needed either 5 more mph of wind or a 5M (I sound like a broken record--is that even a useful metaphor anymore??) but yeah. Now that we're getting up and going long distances on the foil it's getting downright giddy.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on August 25, 2019, 02:29:21 AM
Cool video from Axis.  Adrian talks about their mast and shows the connection system.   Nice.

https://www.facebook.com/thekitemaginternational/videos/489265838315751/
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on August 26, 2019, 05:34:07 PM
I was very stoked to see my Axis stuff at my door today.  No wind today so a great afternoon for tinkering. 

I am very happy with how this stuff all assembled and there were a few surprises as well.  The slightly larger Axis wings (1020 and 920) are insanely light in comparison to my GoFoil wings (Go Foil M200 and Iwa).  This got me pretty stoked when I was setting up because I thought it was possible that even with the aluminum masts/fuselage of the Axis that the weight might be pretty close.  But I was really surprised that my largest complete Axis assembly (wings, fuselage, mast, board mount and hardware) ended up being 1.4 lbs lighter than the complete carbon Go Foil.  I believe the 1020 wing is actually bit larger overall than the M-200 and I have the 500 stabilizer and the longest Axis fuselage.  On the other side I do have the Tuttle adapter on the GoFoil.  So, not an exact apples to apples match but similar enough that I found it interesting.  So stoked to check this out on the water!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on August 26, 2019, 06:33:03 PM
I thought my SUP was more stable with the Axis under me, than any other foil Iíve tried. Iíd be curious if you feel any difference.

I did try the 440 rear wing with the 102 and didnít like the feel. The 500 rear felt better matched. I know some people love smaller rear wings, but I like my loads more balanced between the wings. I dislike putting my rear foot behind the mast to make a foil trim out.

I would like to try a shorter fuselage. Maybe Iíll get one when I splurge on the 1000 front wing.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on August 27, 2019, 01:26:53 AM
I have a Neil Pryde foil, Gofoil with 29.5 mast plus plate adapter and and an Axis 1020.
I think the NP foil is just as stiff as the Axis and the Gofoil is just a little less stiff.

All the other brands I tried including the Gofoil 28.5 mast were a no go for me.
I want to have a small board and that is only possible (for me) with a stiff foil.

The baseplate of my NP foil is stuck permanently on the mast and I really like it that way, I think the same will happen with my Axis mast and plate eventually.
I guess I will have to order 2 more baseplates for my 2 other masts to be ready for that.

Perhaps I should go the beer can shim route to get rid of the last bit of play between the mast and the plate...

I have the standard fuselage  and the 440 , I wanted to get the 400 first perhaps I should get the 500...
I  also want to get a shorter fuselage, hope the new fuselages will come out soon.

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on August 27, 2019, 02:18:48 AM
Interesting.  The standard Fuselage (~20.5 inches) on the Axis is 2.5 inches longer than the fixed fuselage on the GoFoil (~18 inches).  3 inches of "fuselage" is fused to the stabilzers on the GoFoil so I am measuring each to the junction of the actual wings.  From the specs the Axis Short fuselage is very similar in length to the Go Foil's fixed fuselage (.4 inch shorter).  The specs are a little odd here because they measure the whole of the fuselage including the mounts (which sit on the wings)  which would make it tricky to compare to another brand.  The 500 stabilizer looks a bit smaller overall than the Iwa all in (but the dimensions are very different shorter, larger chord, etc). 

The Axis wings are really impressive.  The max thickness is more constant than on the similarly sized GoFoils and the max thickness is a bit further from the leading edge as well.  The go Foils (M-200 and Iwa) are are thicker than the Axis at the mid line but thin more quickly as they move outwards.  I wonder if the 1020 will lift a bit more than the M 200.  Most interested to see if it is less work to keep flying when it is marginal.

Soekip, what was not working for you on the GoFoil 28.5.  I am not understanding what you wrote.  Does that mast flex more than the 29.5?

DW what are your plans for the 1000? 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on August 27, 2019, 04:09:24 AM
I think the 1000 and 900 wings will work better being powered by wind. They wonít fight the speed.

I also geeked out on comparing wings in the beginning. Calipers on all my wings, noting thickness, max draft location, spread sheets, etc. My hope was that Iíd learn something and be able to look at a wing and tell if it would suit me. Boy was I wrong!

I even dreamed of finding one brand that would work for all my sports. Jacky and I would share the foil quiver parts, and weíd be set. I was wrong again!

I have to ride everything and pick and chose the cherry wings. The best I can hope for is to reduce the foundations I work with. Neil Pryde and Axis for surfing, kiting, winging, and Slingshot for windsurfing.

Did you notice Adrain said the Axis 900 was designed for windsurfing. It just happens to be awesome for downwinding. Big clue right there. Wing ding wing! It wonít fight the speed. It should run smooth and steady being pushed hard.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on August 27, 2019, 04:47:20 AM
That 900 is a beautiful looking wing but it is much smaller (1184 outline).  That sounds like a lot of work!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: daswusup on August 27, 2019, 07:04:43 AM
I think the 1000 and 900 wings will work better being powered by wind. They wonít fight the speed.

I also geeked out on comparing wings in the beginning. Calipers on all my wings, noting thickness, max draft location, spread sheets, etc. My hope was that Iíd learn something and be able to look at a wing and tell if it would suit me. Boy was I wrong!

I even dreamed of finding one brand that would work for all my sports. Jacky and I would share the foil quiver parts, and weíd be set. I was wrong again!

I have to ride everything and pick and chose the cherry wings. The best I can hope for is to reduce the foundations I work with. Neil Pryde and Axis for surfing, kiting, winging, and Slingshot for windsurfing.

Did you notice Adrain said the Axis 900 was designed for windsurfing. It just happens to be awesome for downwinding. Big clue right there. Wing ding wing! It wonít fight the speed. It should run smooth and steady being pushed hard.
DW- I love the Slingy Infinity 76 with the 29"mast for kiting. I feel like I am doing a totally different sport than most of the kitefoilers I see. I like to go slow and completely shut the kite off and pump around downwind in search of bumps to slash. I also ride the time code 68 to do this but prefer the 76. There is a magical wind speed where there is no pull from the kite and I feel like I just pumped out to the middle of the lake. Most other kiters seem to be on smaller foils with a longer mast going really fast. That's fun too but once I outrun the bumps, I feel like I am throwing away a precious resource.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on August 27, 2019, 07:17:28 AM
Does that mast flex more than the 29.5?

Yes, a lot more
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on August 27, 2019, 07:41:11 AM
Huh.  When I read stiffer on the GoFoil site I though they were comparing to the smaller 24 inch with the same Tuttle attachment, not to the 28.5.  That is wild.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: JEG on August 27, 2019, 02:22:49 PM
I have the GoFoil 28.5 mast and I'm 80kg and its fine with IWA and M200 and I'm guessing if you are heavier than me I would get the 29 masts and to match with M280. It will be interesting to see those have 28.5 masts combining with the new GL wings like the 180, 210 & 240 & anyone done this combo and what's your weight?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on August 27, 2019, 09:59:52 PM
I'm going to run a pretty little bead of weld on my adapter to mast. No beer cans required, just a 250 amp TIG.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on August 28, 2019, 01:41:44 AM
What about epoxy to bond the mast and plate forever?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on August 28, 2019, 03:30:55 AM
Welding will kill any temper in the aluminum. I assume the mast has a T6 temper.

Epoxy doesnít stick to aluminum very well.

Beer (Rockstar Organic can for me) can sounds crazy, but works awesome. Cans are so thin, you can trim any excess aluminum sticking out, with a simple carpet knife. I never knew modern cans cut as easy as paper until I did this.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on August 28, 2019, 05:38:47 AM
Easy to retemper it, but I wouldn't. It's probably 6061, might be T6. If I were aiming for maximum strength I'd age it at 350F for four hours or 400 for one hour depending on how long I could expect my wife to be away from the kitchen (actually I have a kiln, but I wouldn't fire it up for this). But short welds, thick metal--I wouldn't bother and the anodizing might darken. The heat-affected zone will be small and in an area where the metal is doubled up. I'd be loathe to weld in the middle of the mast, but at the adapter--no problem. And there are lots of epoxies that do very well with aluminum, especially anodized--most developed for aerospace and motorsports. Gorilla Glue's competing product to JB Weld is in that family and works like gangbusters on aluminum. I just used some yesterday to make an aluminum frame for a light that I didn't want to weld.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on August 28, 2019, 06:17:25 AM
Hi guys, 

I know that there is a sliver of extra room on insertion but it seems to tighten down really well with the torx driver.  I am not seeing or feeling any movement in mine by hand.  Are you guys feeling any slop on the water?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on August 28, 2019, 07:34:57 AM
Your hand is putting perhaps 20 pounds of torque on the thing. You can resist that by shimming with Parmesan cheese if it's well-aged.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on August 28, 2019, 09:01:13 AM
Are you feeling any slop on the water?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on August 28, 2019, 09:22:30 AM
with the 280--lots. Of course I think my fuselage is cracked vertically. I felt some with the axis and the 1020, but I have a 90cm mast, so I don't know if it's actual slop or just me wobbling around on a too-tall unicycle.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on August 28, 2019, 11:25:17 AM
Donít check it with the bolts installed. Check it without. You paid for top of the line engineering with that fuselage connection, then throw it away on the plate connection. No way! Hammer that sucker on.

BTW, surfed the Axis today in waist high, sloppy windy surf. After surfing my Neil Pryde. So back to back test. For sure, the Axis made my board more stable than the Neil Pryde. Axis is my new gold standard for easy pee zee on a SUP.

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on August 29, 2019, 02:51:33 PM
The Axis 102 in 15mph wind today. My first day in enough wind to actually ride the wing ding.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1w2xrdHMkN/?igshid=1h32uejwikuub
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: gzasinets on August 30, 2019, 01:48:19 PM
Looking awesome Dwight! Is that 5m wing? I am on the gulf coast so looking for the right weather to take mine out. Stay safe for Dorian.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on August 30, 2019, 02:53:23 PM
Yes 5m. Wind about 15 mph
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on August 30, 2019, 07:43:55 PM
OK, I finally got a session on this Axis kit...and it's love.  What a difference.  3 hour session and I didn't want to quit.  So freaking fun.

So, how do I shim these adapters on?  Dwight, did you do a "U" with your cut beer can or something else?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on August 30, 2019, 08:37:46 PM
Was out today on my DW 5'11"x 28" and the Axis 102 in Miami Beach so I was able to ride the wind chop and was really stable in over 20 knots of wind. Ended up eventually going on a 5 meter kite with an impulse foil so I found there isn't really anything now that I can't paddle in with the Axis foil.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on August 30, 2019, 09:43:23 PM
Today was a good day. I started out on the GoFoil M280, which was working pretty well but demanded intense focus to keep it from porpoising into an overfoil or a slam-down. After a few too many overfoil faceplants I decided to switch to the Axis 1020 even though I think the 90CM mast is a bit of a handful and I haven't received my new bits yet.

The Axis is harder to get up on, but once I was up it was smooth and easy. With the 280 if I try to move either foot I'm doomed, with the axis I could fiddle around quite a bit without drama, and I was able to edge toward the middle of the board to go downwind and try jibing. Almost made it a couple of times.

Of course, I had the eventual overconfidence slam down. I was up on a starboard tack, where I still have a lot less control than is desirable. Just as I was congratulating myself for my mastery of the starboard tack I went out of control, foolishly tried to save it, and wound up diving off the board into my wing, smacking myself briskly in the mouth with the boom. I floated around a bit, recovering, did one more run across the river and called it good since the wind was getting punky. Of course as soon as I had taken all my stuff apart the wind picked back up. Oh, well, tomorrow.

Admin was showing some style, with lots of air between his board and the water. He did a run that was reminiscent of a stone skipping across the water. But we both made serious progress today and were babbling about our progress, complete with arm gestures, circles and arrows.

Chan has determined she needs a full set of Axis stuff. Today's success might push their combined gear bill into five figures.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on August 30, 2019, 10:23:08 PM
Pono, you need a shorter masts for sure. I have the 68 cm for normal riding and then the 45 cm for shallow breaks. Wasn't sure if the 45 cm would be too short but I can still pump it a bit, just not as easily to pump as the longer mast and I have to do a bunch more little pumps to equal one or two pumps from the longer mast.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on August 31, 2019, 03:21:19 AM
Bill, Iím surprised you havenít cut and retapped that mast already.  ;D
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on August 31, 2019, 03:34:07 AM
OK, I finally got a session on this Axis kit...and it's love.  What a difference.  3 hour session and I didn't want to quit.  So freaking fun.

So, how do I shim these adapters on?  Dwight, did you do a "U" with your cut beer can or something else?

U didnít work for me. I cut pieces for each side. Put them in the base. Made them tall and sticking out. Slid mast in and hammered. Trimmed excess aluminum sticking out with carpet knife. I think my Axis only needed aluminum one side. My Slingshot needed it both sides.

When I did this trick to my Slingshot base, one aluminum piece slid down and under the mast, but still smashed flat. I had a little aluminum blocking the bolt hole. But no worries because the aluminum is like paper. Stuck the knife in the bolt hole and dug the aluminum blockage out.

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on August 31, 2019, 03:35:31 AM
Axis 1020, Standard Fuselage, 500 tail, 68 Mast.  I spent the first half hour mostly surface bound and feeling very tentative but over the course of the next hours I started to relax into it and trust what it wanted to do.  The first thing that I noticed is the dramatic lessening of drag.  Even when surface bound this feels so sleek.  It picks up surface speed really well.  The increase in lift is very evident over the Maliko 200 and at at first this felt like it would be too much.  But that was thinking about it from my old foil perspective where a lot of lift = scary shit happening.  The Axis setup lifts so smoothly and leveling off is much more of an unconscious deal than a dramatic requirement.  The best part is that it feels like this foil increases the size of your dance-floor.  Minor missteps are not catastrophes.  That takes some getting used to but I love it.  I am slowly getting over my Post Aggressive Foil Syndrome. 

We did place another Axis order last night with a third wing for Chan (an 820 to add to the 920 and 1020) as well as enough kit to make three wing, fuselage, stabilizer steps that can stay assembled.  Those travel really nicely.  We keep masts on the boards so we will usually be two screws away from ready.  Bye, bye mallet. 

Bill and I had our first foiling pass-by on opposite tacks.  That must be a good sign.  We were both yelling something into the wind.  I think Bill was screaming, "Ipswich Watermelon" and I'm pretty sure I was saying, "I'm happy".
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on August 31, 2019, 06:29:41 AM
Bill, Iím surprised you havenít cut and retapped that mast already.  ;D

I thought of it, but decided it might be useful someday.

Admin--It was indeed "Ipswich Watermelon?" But it was a question. And I thought you said "I'm sappy" which didn't seem to merit further comment.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on August 31, 2019, 09:27:33 AM
Found some more video from the first day with the 5m and Axis. You can see how easy it pumped back into the air.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B11boWfHpY0/?igshid=13j0m7irbms8r
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on August 31, 2019, 09:08:55 PM
You can imagine what I have to do at 235 pounds to get up with a four-meter. And why I hate your guts right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB1a49TqWQ8
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Hilly on September 01, 2019, 12:36:39 AM
You can imagine what I have to do at 235 pounds to get up with a four-meter. And why I hate your guts right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB1a49TqWQ8
I have the 4m and at 105kg with the Armstrong 2400 it gets up super easy.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on September 01, 2019, 02:24:48 AM
At this point I should introduce the BDF (Babcock Drag Factor).  It is a multiplier that should be applied to any undamaged product  in relation to that same product being owned and used by Bill.  On his Axis Foils I am setting the BDF at 1.5 to account for the fact that it has flown from his truck bed at highway speed and is now covered in silver tape which he casually smooths back down each time before launching.  One guy came up to him on the beach while we were rigging and (smiling) asked Bill, "Watcha got under there?" :).  His 4 meter Duotone looks now like a hobo's hanky.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on September 01, 2019, 04:08:22 AM
I already feel 5m is NOT too big. What was that B.S. about 4m being the only size we need.  >:(

Where are the 6 and 7 meter wings  >:(

I just want to float down wind and feel like 80 lb Banzai Grom
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on September 01, 2019, 06:06:56 AM
At this point I should introduce the BDF (Babcock Drag Factor).  It is a multiplier that should be applied to any undamaged product  in relation to that same product being owned and used by Bill.  On his Axis Foils I am setting the BDF at 1.5 to account for the fact that it has flown from his truck bed at highway speed and is now covered in silver tape which he casually smooths back down each time before launching.  One guy came up to him on the beach while we were rigging and (smiling) asked Bill, "Watcha got under there?" :).  His 4 meter Duotone looks now like a hobo's hanky.

Ridiculous overstatement. Two patches and a new bladder. My hankies look MUCH worse than that.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on September 05, 2019, 01:20:36 PM
That big (1020cm) Axis wing really is awesome for learning to wing ding. I have faster and better turning wings, but nothing this easy for getting the hang of wing dinging.

This is day 3. This day was less work on the arms. I guess my feel for the Duotone is improving enough, the strain is going down a lot.

We are having post hurricane off shore wind. So Iím doing some pretend wave riding in the Banana River. Wind is 12-17 mph. 5m wing.

https://youtu.be/wdsJMnvdJp4
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on September 05, 2019, 10:36:47 PM
Impressive. If that was an M280 you'd be bouncing up and down like a porpoise in light air like that. the axis foil is smooth. I like the GoFoil GL 240 almost as well, now that I've learned how to get it up and flying. The foot position is completely different from the 280 (duh).

I just got a shipment of Axis stuff. Three masts, a shorter fuselage, a new 1020 to relieve the one I have patched back together, and a 440 tail. I'm going to modify the old road rash 1020 for a bit more lift and stability, I'm going to make a 1080 gullwing out of it. Now, all we need is some wind.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on September 06, 2019, 12:20:58 AM
Impressive. If that was an M280 you'd be bouncing up and down like a porpoise in light air like that. the axis foil is smooth. I like the GoFoil GL 240 almost as well, now that I've learned how to get it up and flying. The foot position is completely different from the 280 (duh).

I just got a shipment of Axis stuff. Three masts, a shorter fuselage, a new 1020 to relieve the one I have patched back together, and a 440 tail. I'm going to modify the old road rash 1020 for a bit more lift and stability, I'm going to make a 1080 gullwing out of it. Now, all we need is some wind.

That is pretty interesting about your feet on the 240.  I am thinking that wing foilers may have different priorities than pumpers.
 I know that I sure want to pump as little as necessary.  On the Axis 1020 I didn't notice that any foot position change was required from the GoFoil 200.  The Axis was just much better mannered in that position.  Smooth lift with sustained cruise.  Nice!
 We have been on the East Coast for the last week and I am stoked to get back for a second day on this kit.  We have the other tail sizes arriving today as well.  We will see how those go on the smaller front wings.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: obxDave on September 24, 2019, 05:09:50 AM
Where are you ordering your Axis foils from?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on September 24, 2019, 05:21:07 AM
We went through the website.  They have been quick and awesome to work with.  https://axisfoils.com/collections/all-sup
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on September 24, 2019, 05:57:50 AM
Also https://live2kite.com/

Same business. They distribute Axis.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: obxDave on September 24, 2019, 06:20:43 AM
Also https://live2kite.com/

Same business. They distribute Axis.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: bigmtn on October 21, 2019, 04:18:17 PM
Just picked up an axis set with a 900 wing. Wondering which of the bigger wings you guys prefer now? 1000 or 1020? And why? What's your daily driver?

I'm probably going to put in an order for a different size mast (got 68 and 90, but want the 75 for prone foiling), and a bigger wing, just can't decide which or if I should just stick with the 900.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on October 21, 2019, 07:33:26 PM
depends a lot on your weight. I like the 1020 but I'm 235.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on October 22, 2019, 01:12:40 AM
Just picked up an axis set with a 900 wing. Wondering which of the bigger wings you guys prefer now? 1000 or 1020? And why? What's your daily driver?

I'm probably going to put in an order for a different size mast (got 68 and 90, but want the 75 for prone foiling), and a bigger wing, just can't decide which or if I should just stick with the 900.

How heavy are you Big?  Will this be for Winging and surf foil?  The 1020 is awesome as a lighter wind wing for Winging at my 170 lbs.  Chan uses the 920 in this same wind and she is tiny.  The 1000 needs a little more wind. 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: bigmtn on October 22, 2019, 10:34:47 AM
165-170ish, thinking more for with a wing. I'd use the 900 in the surf.

I'm assuming you like the 1020 better because it doesn't drop out at slow speeds like the higher aspect wings do. Was thinking the 1020 would be better when the wind is lighter, and then the 900 when its cranking. (I have a 4.2 swing) Just wanted to hear others thoughts and experiences with the 2 wings.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on October 22, 2019, 12:02:50 PM
165-170ish, thinking more for with a wing. I'd use the 900 in the surf.

I'm assuming you like the 1020 better because it doesn't drop out at slow speeds like the higher aspect wings do. Was thinking the 1020 would be better when the wind is lighter, and then the 900 when its cranking. (I have a 4.2 swing) Just wanted to hear others thoughts and experiences with the 2 wings.

You nailed it. Both wings complement each other perfectly like that.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on October 22, 2019, 05:58:42 PM
I'm thrilled with the results of the Fatboy Axis. I used the 1020 today in blistering winds at Roosevelt in the Gorge (gusts to 40) because I thought using a 4.0M Duotone would push the 1020 along nicely. It did, but in the big swells I was bouncing around a lot even up on the foil, and I had to concentrate on what the foil was doing as well as trying to keep the wing under control in the gusts and trying to keep from getting wiped off the board with a big bump. I wound up coming down a lot more than I would have liked. After I was pretty thoroughly exhausted I came in and decided to do one more run with the Fatboy. Swapped it out, went back out, and ***+++NIRVANA+++****. Seriously, it was so awesome. As soon as I got pointed right and got the wing calmed down and pulling I just bent my knees and I was up. Zoomed across the river without a tap. I even managed to shuffle around on the foil a but to get the trim a little nicer.

I almost nailed a foiling jibe but it got a bit wet at the end. Got back up, flexed the knees and blasted back across the wide river. I played around a lot, turning downwind on the big bumps and riding them, then turning back and going hard upwind to regain lost ground. I overdid the upwind a couple of times and stalled out, but I was high enough to pivot the foil downwind before it came down, and then swoop to regain speed without touching down. That feels fantastic.

I'm certain what I was feeling is the same thing any 195 pound rider of similar skill level feels on a 1020. I might have gained a little roll stability in addition to more lift with my wanky gullwing design. But basically it just gets my fat ass up off the water without drama or much pumping, and I can ignore the foil and concentrate on the other fifteen things you need to think about in this sport.

When we get out of the water on days like this we just babble at each other. It's been a long time since I got this excited about mastering the basics of a sport. Foils surfing came close, but wing foiling feels like it opens the door to endless possibilities.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on October 22, 2019, 06:51:58 PM
165-170ish, thinking more for with a wing. I'd use the 900 in the surf.

I'm assuming you like the 1020 better because it doesn't drop out at slow speeds like the higher aspect wings do. Was thinking the 1020 would be better when the wind is lighter, and then the 900 when its cranking. (I have a 4.2 swing) Just wanted to hear others thoughts and experiences with the 2 wings.

Hi Big,

We are the same weight.  It was blasting today (and completely freaking awesome).  I used the 920 and it was perfect.  I would have been getting too much lift from the 1020.  It is an incredible wing but it has its limit.  Chan was out on the 820 and I grabbed her board and took a few (failed) runs on that wing.  Neither of us are in love with the 820 yet.  I really like the 920.  The 1000 is awesome but it overlaps the 1020 quite a bit and it really wants to be powered.  It is incredible when it is relatively smooth water or when you can keep pumping it.  When it gets super choppy and the swell is big it becomes a bit more work.  Probably awesome for running downwind on swells but more work for playing in place.  I only have a few runs on the 900 so far so I can't really comment on that one.  I don't think you can go wrong with the 1020. 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: paddlur on October 22, 2019, 06:53:56 PM
Bill Iím pretty much similar weight class as you, see you really like the 1020 axis front wing winging,but what rear wing are using?any comparisons to the GF 280 performance wise as that is my wing of choice usually but the axis definitely looks nice, are those masts sealed well as a few years back had a aluminum mast on one of my kite foils that leaked and trapped the water in the extrusion chambers and weighed a bit more than Iíd like after a session was not a big fan of the older aluminum mast, have they eliminated that with the new axis aluminum masts?Oh what mast are using 75cm?Thanks
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on October 23, 2019, 06:30:34 AM
I'm using either the 500 or the 440 Axis rear wing. I like the 440 for pumping and smooth water, the 500 is great for the crazy shit. Fatboy and 500 was the ticket yesterday (Fatboy is the 1020 extended to 1096 with no change in chord.

I sometimes get a little water into my mast, but it's a trickle, not a dump. The fittings on the Axis mast adapters is close and the mast is encased in the aluminum of the adapters. There's still a little wobble--the parts would probably stick if the clearance was a lot less--so shimming is a good idea. Most folks use beer can shims, I prefer aluminum tape which gives a full-perimeter shim and probably seals it as well. I have to use some care taking the masts out of the adapter, but the fuss is worthwhile and I don't take the mast apart often.

I'm using the 75 most of the time. I've tried the 90 and like it, but there a lot of rocks here in the gorge so I need to flip the board a lot more often and a lot further out. The shorter masts are resting comfortably in bubblewrap, I haven't used them other than a first test and them back to bubble.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: paddlur on October 23, 2019, 07:52:26 PM
I'm using either the 500 or the 440 Axis rear wing. I like the 440 for pumping and smooth water, the 500 is great for the crazy shit. Fatboy and 500 was the ticket yesterday (Fatboy is the 1020 extended to 1096 with no change in chord.

I sometimes get a little water into my mast, but it's a trickle, not a dump. The fittings on the Axis mast adapters is close and the mast is encased in the aluminum of the adapters. There's still a little wobble--the parts would probably stick if the clearance was a lot less--so shimming is a good idea. Most folks use beer can shims, I prefer aluminum tape which gives a full-perimeter shim and probably seals it as well. I have to use some care taking the masts out of the adapter, but the fuss is worthwhile and I don't take the mast apart often.

I'm using the 75 most of the time. I've tried the 90 and like it, but there a lot of rocks here in the gorge so I need to flip the board a lot more often and a lot further out. The shorter masts are resting comfortably in bubblewrap, I haven't used them other than a first test and them back to bubble.
Thanks Bill for the info looks like a good bigboy set up!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Surfside on October 24, 2019, 04:13:45 AM
Yesterday we went out in 15-20 mph sideshore and tried my buddies's fairly new GF 280 on my 7'4". It is so floaty that when you are not on board, it rises, resulting in the board floating on it's rail. My GF 200 does not do this. Is the 1020 as "floaty" as the 280?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on October 24, 2019, 04:53:11 AM
I found the GoFoil M 200 to be very floaty.  It stayed on its side with a fully exposed wing for a long while and I ended up manually forcing it under water so I could get started.  It also did not quickly submerge when I crashed so that also added a level of excitement.  The Axis foils are all very quick sinkers in comparison to the M200.  I sometimes do help it under but it goes right down with a little direction.   I haven't used a 280 but if that was even floatier than your 200 you should find an even greater difference to the Axis foils.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Surfside on October 24, 2019, 05:00:00 AM
Thx!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on October 24, 2019, 10:14:46 AM
The newer GoFoil foils are super floaty. My 280 is ancient (in SUP foil terms) so it's not too corky, but the new M200s float like a rubber ducky and my GL240 is irritatingly floaty, though it's fairly easy to shove it down. On the plus side, light wings seem to feel better once you're up, and they certainly carry easier. Carrying Mr. Fugly with a 280 was a major chore. Little Fugly with either the GL240 or the Axis is much nicer.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on October 25, 2019, 10:37:35 AM
Jacky had to work today....so I rode the 920 with 3.5m Swing. Wow, the 920 is nice. I see a new problem now.  ;D
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on October 26, 2019, 02:39:18 AM
Hah!  The 1020/920 combo does cover 10-35 really well.  We had an awesome 20-25 session yesterday with frequent lighter dips.  It was a bit up and down but all in the range.  I was on the 4.2 and the 1020.  I could easily have been on the 3.5.  We under-judged it a little.  The thing I like best about the 20's is how smooth they are.  I wish that we liked the 820 more.  Chan hasn't tried the 1000 or the 900 yet so one of those may be good for her as a higher wind wing.  When I am close to the high edge on the 1020 I can't imagine what that is like for her on the 920.  That is relatively a way bigger wing for her.  What is Jacky using when the wind picks up?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on October 26, 2019, 03:03:22 AM
Jacky is only 2 sessions back from her dislocated shoulder. She is still trying to learn pumping the foil and wing in sync. So she has another session of two before she is flying consistent. My advantage over her, when learning winging, was I was already a good SUP foiler, so I was quite good at pumping a SUP onto foil. She is way behind me in paddle SUP foiling skill. She still has a job. Iím retired. Winging just doesnít have the power of a kite to get on foil, so she has to learn a lot of new techniques. If she picks a huge wing, then she fears for her shoulder. So far, winging feels good on the shoulder.

I have the 900 for her, when she is ready for it. Iím going to wait (I think) on ordering smaller wings, until I see the 2020 Axis lineup. For 2020 the wings we already own stay the same. I want to see the sizes of the new Gul wing style wings.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on November 01, 2019, 01:55:59 AM
Some new kit for 2020:

https://www.facebook.com/AxisKiteboarding/videos/2557587157622955/
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on November 07, 2019, 04:40:38 AM
Somebody got one. I want the 880 version of this wing.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4jnwy9Hsi1/?igshid=12nuc1eqvmt5z
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on November 07, 2019, 05:10:36 AM
I preordered a couple of the new carbon 76 cm masts and new short fuselages and with the adapter spigots they will work with the existing masts as well.  Those look great.  The ultra short 2020 fuselages are in stock now and the other are coming soon. They said that those have extra milling in the head and tail for additional weight savings.  SOLD :).
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on November 07, 2019, 05:22:37 AM
I'm guessing the 880 wing will be a 1500-1600 wing. I have the 1010 on order along with the 880. It's awesome that we don't have to wait a full year for new product to progress the sport
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on November 07, 2019, 07:33:06 AM
What are they aiming for with these new designs?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: surfinib on November 07, 2019, 08:10:32 AM
Admin, where are you getting the 2020 gear ordered from? Axis direct and Live 2 Kite (West distributor) only have 2019 gear listed on their sites.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on November 07, 2019, 08:15:57 AM
What are they aiming for with these new designs?

I heard awhile back, from another brands rep, Gul wings surf amazing. Thatís all I know, plus itís so much fun to try new wings.

Dealers got the 2020 info this week. You have to know somebody to get a peak. Ordering from Live2kite and axisfoils.com is the same people.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on November 07, 2019, 03:20:23 PM
The Fatboy wing is a variation on a gullwing. The variation is because I wanted plenty of margin for the carbon joint where I sawed the wing apart. It's a little more stable and turns oddly, but nicely. First, it resists the turn a little, then it kind of "locks" in and turns very smoothly, then it resists not turning. Once I got used to it I found that to be advantageous. Like cruise control.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: exiled on November 07, 2019, 04:45:56 PM
That gullwing axis looks a lot like the Ke Nalu Iwa foils. How down turned are the tips?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on November 08, 2019, 02:39:36 AM
Axis actually had a couple of the new Short fuselages come in and they sent those to me with the spigots for our current masts.  I am stoked to try those on our new little boards...and I am running out of usable days  :-\.  I am interested to see how much weight savings the carbon setups will offer.  I love it that they eliminate the track adapter.  Axis wings are incredibly light with most of the overall weight coming from the mast/adapter and then the fuselage.   Lighten up one or both of those parts and this could become a really light setup.

I asked Axis about the new wings and they let me know: In regards to the new Front Wings coming out, there will be many new items in store for 2020! That 1010 is going to be part of our Downwind Performance Series. It will be a super easy Downwinder Wing which will have early lift and endless glide! The 880 will be in our Surf Performance Series so great for Surf and SUP. Will be a great Wake wing as well. Insane gear coming out we are Stoked!

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: supnorte on November 08, 2019, 04:51:30 AM
I brought the new 660 wing from a meeting with the Axis guys at Paddleexpo in Germany for big-wave rider Rafael Tapia to use in Nazarť. It's for big wave tow foiling and also for high-performance prone foiling, since you can do really tight carves with it.
Here's some videos from Nazarť sessions:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=460534811487645

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=409871569697765

And since it's already out there I'm posting some top-secret photos from some of the new products  ;D


Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: SanoSlatchSup on November 08, 2019, 03:02:29 PM
Ohhhhh.....foil porn!!  :o ;D
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on November 08, 2019, 05:33:51 PM
Admin, where are you getting the 2020 gear ordered from? Axis direct and Live 2 Kite (West distributor) only have 2019 gear listed on their sites.

I had been communicating with them by email. I asked and they replied:  Awesome to hear about the riders looking for more AXIS. You can always direct them to us here at AXIS Foils, axisfoils@gmail.com with any questions and needs.  Also they check in with their local dealers that sell AXIS Foils.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on November 11, 2019, 02:12:34 AM
After a few days of stronger wind and smaller gear, we had a light westerly breeze yesterday accompanied by perfect 64 degree air and sunshine.  The Gorge is so beautiful in those conditions.  This was a soft and agreeable wind.  It was mostly 12 MPH, ranging from 8 to 18 but without edgy gusts.  Perfect Swing 5 meter weather with the Axis 1020.  I had the big 500 tail on with the Standard fuselage (in Axis speak the Standard is their longest fuselage) so this is their biggest kit.  That combination is silly fun in light wind.  It pops up so effortlessly and responds so well to pumping.  It takes a little adjusting to because the rhythm of the pump can be so much slower with this bigger gear.  I was practicing one quick little down push and slowly riding it up. Keeping the up angle really low.  Doing it like that and bring the air wing overhead you can feel it all accelerating you upwards for 30 or 40 feet on a tiny little downpump.  That momentarily weightless sensation right there is unique to this sport.  It really does feel like your flying.  These things are so freaking efficient.  I was also amazed by how the big foil would pick up the little microcups that were forming.  Go into a jibe and you can feel the tiniest slopes accelerate you with no wing involvement.

I stayed out for two hours, completely overheated in the sunshine and my winter rubber and stumbled up the beach like a goofball but jeez was that fun.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on November 11, 2019, 03:25:34 AM
Wait til you feel those sensations paddling into a wave!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: surfinJ on November 11, 2019, 06:21:29 AM
After a few days of stronger wind and smaller gear, we had a light westerly breeze yesterday accompanied by perfect 64 degree air and sunshine.  The Gorge is so beautiful in those conditions.  This was a soft and agreeable wind.  It was mostly 12 MPH, ranging from 8 to 18 but without edgy gusts.  Perfect Swing 5 meter weather with the Axis 1020.  I had the big 500 tail on with the Standard fuselage (in Axis speak the Standard is their longest fuselage) so this is their biggest kit.  That combination is silly fun in light wind.  It pops up so effortlessly and responds so well to pumping.  It takes a little adjusting to because the rhythm of the pump can be so much slower with this bigger gear.  I was practicing one quick little down push and slowly riding it up. Keeping the up angle really low.  Doing it like that and bring the air wing overhead you can feel it all accelerating you upwards for 30 or 40 feet on a tiny little downpump.  That momentarily weightless sensation right there is unique to this sport.  It really does feel like your flying.  These things are so freaking efficient.  I was also amazed by how the big foil would pick up the little microcups that were forming.  Go into a jibe and you can feel the tiniest slopes accelerate you with no wing involvement.

I stayed out for two hours, completely overheated in the sunshine and my winter rubber and stumbled up the beach like a goofball but jeez was that fun.

So although the vids have been ever more enticing from foil world, it might be this post that pushes me over the edge.
Only details to be worked out is an honest tally of time available, and the family administrator.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: obxDave on November 11, 2019, 01:52:44 PM
After a few days of stronger wind and smaller gear, we had a light westerly breeze yesterday accompanied by perfect 64 degree air and sunshine.  The Gorge is so beautiful in those conditions.  This was a soft and agreeable wind.  It was mostly 12 MPH, ranging from 8 to 18 but without edgy gusts.  Perfect Swing 5 meter weather with the Axis 1020.  I had the big 500 tail on with the Standard fuselage (in Axis speak the Standard is their longest fuselage) so this is their biggest kit.  That combination is silly fun in light wind.  It pops up so effortlessly and responds so well to pumping.  It takes a little adjusting to because the rhythm of the pump can be so much slower with this bigger gear.  I was practicing one quick little down push and slowly riding it up. Keeping the up angle really low.  Doing it like that and bring the air wing overhead you can feel it all accelerating you upwards for 30 or 40 feet on a tiny little downpump.  That momentarily weightless sensation right there is unique to this sport.  It really does feel like your flying.  These things are so freaking efficient.  I was also amazed by how the big foil would pick up the little microcups that were forming.  Go into a jibe and you can feel the tiniest slopes accelerate you with no wing involvement.

I stayed out for two hours, completely overheated in the sunshine and my winter rubber and stumbled up the beach like a goofball but jeez was that fun.

Need.........to........see...........video.......
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: surfinib on November 11, 2019, 03:41:38 PM
Admin, where are you getting the 2020 gear ordered from? Axis direct and Live 2 Kite (West distributor) only have 2019 gear listed on their sites.

I had been communicating with them by email. I asked and they replied:  Awesome to hear about the riders looking for more AXIS. You can always direct them to us here at AXIS Foils, axisfoils@gmail.com with any questions and needs.  Also they check in with their local dealers that sell AXIS Foils.

Thanks! I talked with the Live2Kite folks that I got my original Axis setup from and placed an order and preordered the carbon mast and 880 wing.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on November 11, 2019, 03:57:05 PM
Need.........to........see...........video.......

Just imagine a Gazelle as an aquatic animal and you will pretty much have it. 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on November 12, 2019, 02:45:14 AM
So although the vids have been ever more enticing from foil world, it might be this post that pushes me over the edge.
Only details to be worked out is an honest tally of time available, and the family administrator.
Thanks.

The real clincher then should be that you can go on almost any available day.  The wind forecasters here have not caught up with that at all.  They are still saying things like, "light and variable, plan on Golf" and we are scouring the NOAA models for how light? how variable?  Aside: those public models are freaking awesome for finding wind.  I have had 7 or 8 really good days in November many of which have had a stay home forecast. 

Another thing is that the light wind experience is one of the most incredible aspects of the sport.  You don't want to miss that.  It is when the flying sensation is in full soaring mode.  This is incredible on flat water, better with bumps, but I can't even imagine an 8-12 MPH day with even the smallest ocean groundswell.  When we lived on Maui I used to paddle OC1 out at lower Kanaha when it was 1 foot and windless (no one out surfing).  A few other canoes did this sometimes and we would pick up these super smooth waves and glide and glide.  It was an amazing feeling.  Can you imagine that with sideshore wind and a wing at 8 to 12 MPH? 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on November 13, 2019, 11:29:40 PM
  It was mostly 12 MPH, ranging from 8 to 18 but without edgy gusts.  Perfect Swing 5 meter weather with the Axis 1020.  I had the big 500 tail on with the Standard fuselage (in Axis speak the Standard is their longest fuselage) so this is their biggest kit.  That combination is silly fun in light wind.  It pops up so effortlessly and responds so well to pumping.
I have the same Axis foil setup for light wind , just not the 500 rear wing but the 440...
Should I get a 500 to be able to go in even lighter wind conditions?

Axis has another 500 rear wing for windsurf foiling , The 500 Anhedral.
Would that one be a good choice , we are wing foiling but also windsurf foiling...
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on November 14, 2019, 01:49:03 AM
  It was mostly 12 MPH, ranging from 8 to 18 but without edgy gusts.  Perfect Swing 5 meter weather with the Axis 1020.  I had the big 500 tail on with the Standard fuselage (in Axis speak the Standard is their longest fuselage) so this is their biggest kit.  That combination is silly fun in light wind.  It pops up so effortlessly and responds so well to pumping.
I have the same Axis foil setup for light wind , just not the 500 rear wing but the 440...
Should I get a 500 to be able to go in even lighter wind conditions?

Axis has another 500 rear wing for windsurf foiling , The 500 Anhedral.
Would that one be a good choice , we are wing foiling but also windsurf foiling...

Hi Soekip,

My big kit is 68 mast, standard (long) fuselage, 1020 front and a 500 rear.  That setup is amazing for really light wind.  The 440 doesn't pop up as effortlessly with the 1020 and it doesn't feel as balanced.  I don't use the 500 on any of the other wings but on this one it is magic.  We leave the 400 on the 920 with a standard fuselage and keep those two assembled all the time.  I consider those really solid combinations.  We also have a Short fuselage with the 1000 and a 440.  That one we switch around.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on November 14, 2019, 04:22:53 AM
I didnít like the 440 with the 1020 either. The 500 works better with it. I donít like the feel of anhedral tail wings. I have used standard and short fuselage with it. Standard is extra stable. It makes feet shuffling easy.

With our 920, we have it setup with short fuselage and 440 tail. I donít have a 400 to try. 440 feels good to me. I prefer the short fuselage. It makes pumping the board into the air much easier than the standard fuselage.

I need to sell my standard fuselage and go all short.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on November 14, 2019, 06:22:35 AM
I need to sell my standard fuselage and go all short.

We just got two of the new short ones and they are awesome.  The head is entirely milled out.  There is a little milling on the tail.  The mast pedestal has been completely removed.  The new mast attachment point on the fuselage is female.  The doodad is highly milled and has a Gene Simmons tongue.  They took off a surprising amount of material over the old style.  These are nice and light in hand.  This is going to be awesome with the new carbon masts. 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: exiled on November 14, 2019, 09:14:34 AM
If I just order from the axis site am I going to get a new style fuselage or are they still selling the outdated ones?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on November 14, 2019, 09:39:32 AM
If I just order from the axis site am I going to get a new style fuselage or are they still selling the outdated ones?

It don't think that you would get this style.  I am not sure if the older style is discontinued or if they are keeping both.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on November 14, 2019, 12:54:09 PM
With my last order, they sent 2019 standard fuse and 2020 short fuse. When 2019 stock is gone, 2020 ships. So youíre safe with a short fuse order.

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: exiled on November 14, 2019, 01:38:46 PM
I was hoping to order a 2020 ultra short. I want the option to switch to carbon later. Hmm
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on November 14, 2019, 02:55:26 PM
The 2020 fuselage takes the dodad to be used in the metal mast. If you're going carbon, it'll attach directly.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on November 14, 2019, 11:02:38 PM
The new S1010 wing is 1010 mm wingspan ;D and projected area is 1430 cm^2

The amazing thing is that the actual area also is 1430^2 ...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17xbTGEWSVeRhnYb_4vz_Gmby8UnrDys7Q1iB-6rC6F4/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17xbTGEWSVeRhnYb_4vz_Gmby8UnrDys7Q1iB-6rC6F4/edit?usp=sharing)

The S1000 is 1310/1388.
So the S1010 is not much bigger than the S1000 and a lot flatter aka completely flat

There is also a new 460 rear wing coming that also seems to be completely flat
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on November 16, 2019, 04:49:46 AM
This looks like the 101 wing with 460 tail.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49072868218_d6a914e03a.jpg)
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: bigmtn on November 16, 2019, 11:44:34 AM
What's the info on the 880 wing?? How's it compare to the 900 or the 920/820?  Haven't seen any pics or really any info about it. Is it high aspect?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on November 16, 2019, 12:39:51 PM
880 is surf performance series. Same as the 660 photos posted here
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on December 16, 2019, 04:11:47 AM
The new S1010 wing is 1010 mm wingspan ;D and projected area is 1430 cm^2

The amazing thing is that the actual area also is 1430^2 ...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17xbTGEWSVeRhnYb_4vz_Gmby8UnrDys7Q1iB-6rC6F4/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17xbTGEWSVeRhnYb_4vz_Gmby8UnrDys7Q1iB-6rC6F4/edit?usp=sharing)

The S1000 is 1310/1388.
So the S1010 is not much bigger than the S1000 and a lot flatter aka completely flat

There is also a new 460 rear wing coming that also seems to be completely flat

Some interesting updates on the 1010 here https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Foiling/Axis-101?page=1#14 .  More area than the 1000 but the lowest of the 3 in volume.

S1000 area 1310, volume 1904 cm^3
S1010 area 1430, volume 1732 cm^3
S1020 area 2013, volume 4161 cm^3

(https://www.seabreeze.com.au/img/photos/stand_up_paddle/15909696.jpg)
Title: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: toejammer2 on December 20, 2019, 03:16:57 PM
Ready to get into Axis foils for winging-1000 and 1020 wings etc. Just wondering if I should wait for the new stuff  i.e. carbon masts to come out. I emailed live2kite but they never answered back.
Also, anyone know if all of the mast sizes will come out in carbon?  I willing to gamble the money on a 48 cm beginner mast to see if I can supfoil some luscious insiders at our beach break without breaking my face.

Iíve been using my Kai and Iwa with my floaty but heavy 8í hypernut. Iím going to start using my 7í4 carbon hypernut and my 6í6Ē Kalama when I feel more confident with the wing.

4.2 Fone,5.0 Fone and 7m Gong
Weight: 190
Cheers
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on December 20, 2019, 03:33:52 PM
There is no reason to wait. 1000 and 1020 are the same for 2020.

They are already supplying the 2020 short fuselage with all orders. Thatís what you need, should you decide to go carbon someday. Iím not going carbon.

Mast is the same for 2020 in the aluminum.

You donít need a short mast for shore break. You ride high on foil in the shallows, then kick the board airborne on exit. Pretty easy to execute.
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: Admin on December 21, 2019, 02:12:06 AM
Also, anyone know if all of the mast sizes will come out in carbon?

When we ordered the Carbon 76 masts Axis had written, "sizing will start with the 76cm at $788 and 96cm at $857 and then later in 2020 will come out with the 86cm and 106cm."
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: Paddle On on January 03, 2020, 08:36:13 AM
I bought a full kit from Live2Kite. For me as a beginner, it was recommended I get the Aluminum $100 mast as opposed to the $800 carbon. He said in order to get the stiffness the carbon mast would only be 15% lighter and I would never be able to tell the difference for a while. I also got the Axis 7'6" Carbon board. I have not had much time on it and am now injured and out for the next month or two so no report.
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: soepkip on January 03, 2020, 11:18:42 PM
Are the S820 and S920 obsolete now that the S900 and S1000 are out?

Or are there still conditions that the older front wings are the better choice?

Perhaps they  are turning more radical  have better lift in light wind and small waves?
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 04, 2020, 03:35:55 AM
Are the S820 and S920 obsolete now that the S900 and S1000 are out?

Or are there still conditions that the older front wings are the better choice?

Perhaps they  are turning more radical  have better lift in light wind and small waves?

They are very different wings. The 102 and 92 and really easy to ride. Early lift, without too much lift. Great for small waves and light wind winging. The 1000 and 900 are good for more skilled users, in better quality waves and higher winds. My guess is the 82 and smaller sizes will be less desirable when the 880, 780, 680 arrive soon. Not sure how the new 101 will fit in. It might be more desirable than the 1000.

102 and 1000 is a good quiver. 92 and 900 is another good quiver pair.
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: toejammer2 on January 04, 2020, 10:12:52 AM
Finally called and talked to Lenny at Live2Kite. Nice to have someone spend the time to explain things.  Felt good to know enough to tell him what I wanted based on a summer of reading on the Standupzone! Got the 1020 with the 500 rear wing for now. Along with the 60cm mast I got the 45cm for low tide. Saving for the 920 or 1000 and the 440 rear wing.
Cheers!
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: Admin on January 05, 2020, 01:56:24 AM
Are the S820 and S920 obsolete now that the S900 and S1000 are out?

Or are there still conditions that the older front wings are the better choice?

Perhaps they  are turning more radical  have better lift in light wind and small waves?

Axis just put out a nice video which describes what they have found with the 900 but also how it fits with the 1000 and 920. 

Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: Admin on January 05, 2020, 01:57:10 AM
https://www.facebook.com/axisfoils/videos/599173527322140/
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: obxDave on January 05, 2020, 10:41:09 PM
Has anyone measured the weight of their full Axis foil rig (say 1020 wing, short fus, 75cm mast, etc) or whatever theyíre specifically using? Really curious where they are coming in at.
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 06, 2020, 12:36:10 PM
Has anyone measured the weight of their full Axis foil rig (say 1020 wing, short fus, 75cm mast, etc) or whatever theyíre specifically using? Really curious where they are coming in at.

You can try them all when you come down here.
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: obxDave on January 06, 2020, 03:09:11 PM
Has anyone measured the weight of their full Axis foil rig (say 1020 wing, short fus, 75cm mast, etc) or whatever theyíre specifically using? Really curious where they are coming in at.

You can try them all when you come down here.

Cool! Iíll bring my scale. :)  My Gong rig weighs in at ~10.5 pounds (pro XL, 65cm mast). My Moses rig with a 70 cm mast and the 790 front wing weighs in at ~6.75 pounds. The difference is really noticeable. I figure just like the board, all that swing weight of the foil starts to add up.
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: PonoBill on January 07, 2020, 10:53:29 AM
I'm loving the 960 in high wind. I'm going to have to try a 1000 next. I don't get as much glide through the lulls with the 960, but it turns on a dime.
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 07, 2020, 12:34:10 PM
I'm loving the 960 in high wind. I'm going to have to try a 1000 next. I don't get as much glide through the lulls with the 960, but it turns on a dime.

Do you mean 920?  There is no 960 with Axis.
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: PonoBill on January 07, 2020, 04:39:54 PM
Probably.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: cnski on January 16, 2020, 10:30:53 AM
Anyone have a 500mm rear wing they want to part with? Went to the Axis website and put a new one in my cart and it automatically calculated shipping with UPS 5 day for $68. $68 dollars to ship a rear wing?? WTF!!!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 16, 2020, 12:52:16 PM
Anyone have a 500mm rear wing they want to part with? Went to the Axis website and put a new one in my cart and it automatically calculated shipping with UPS 5 day for $68. $68 dollars to ship a rear wing?? WTF!!!

Email them. They will correct it. They also do free shipping if you contact them, on most stuff.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: cnski on January 16, 2020, 03:52:07 PM
Thanks. They changed the shipping to $18. Ordered one.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on January 16, 2020, 11:12:01 PM
Anybody tried the new S1010 ?

I really hope it will be easy to lift but it is only 1430 cm2 , just a little bit bigger than the S1000
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 17, 2020, 02:30:28 AM
Anybody tried the new S1010 ?

I really hope it will be easy to lift but it is only 1430 cm2 , just a little bit bigger than the S1000

Ericfoil has ridden it. He says I will love it. It will not be easier to get airborne than the 1020 or 920. Itís in the same class wing as the 1000, just the next level, specific to down winding, super glider style.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on January 20, 2020, 04:28:55 PM
Package from Axis showed up today.  The new carbon mast looks sweet!  They really cleaned up all of the joints and have eliminated all of the ledges and hard edges.  No potential for a sloppy pedestal connection now.  I get the weight at .5 lb. lighter than the aluminum (with pedestal and doodad and hardware). 

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 20, 2020, 05:48:14 PM
But now you have to remove the t nut from the screw. Nooooooo

Slotted based plate is GOLD.  ;D
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on January 20, 2020, 10:23:30 PM
Yes it will take a few minutes more to attach it to the board, not so nice.

Please test the stiffness of the mast, .5 lbs lighter (226 gr) is nice but the stiffness is much more important to me , especially when I use a paddle and not a wing

I suppose the carbon mast will be faster when flying because the part in the water is thinner and narrower?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 21, 2020, 12:42:13 AM
Soepkip,

The carbon flexes more than aluminum mast. My buddy rode the carbon already. He is staying Aluminum.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on January 21, 2020, 02:07:26 AM
The carbon flexes more than aluminum mast. My buddy rode the carbon already. He is staying Aluminum.

Was the difference in stiffness so big that it was also not nice when winging? Or just paddling?

In that case I will have to wait for carbon mast V2 with integrated fuse

I have a Gofoil 29,5 carbon mast , stiff enough but not as stiff as Axis aluminium masts, but the new Gofoil wings are too expensive to build a quiver...
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on January 21, 2020, 03:04:35 AM
I suppose the carbon mast will be faster when flying because the part in the water is thinner and narrower?

The carbon mast is .5 inch narrower at the fuse connection and it is significantly thinner up there as well.  The thickness difference is really noticeable (with the exception of the base) The last foot and a half are greatly reduced in comparison with the aluminum (which are obviously constant over the entire mast). 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 21, 2020, 03:07:17 AM
My buddy prone surfed the carbon mast.

So far, I know of no company making a carbon mast as stiff as the axis aluminum. Slingshot is working on some trick tech carbon mast for windsurfing they claim will be the stiffest carbon on the market.

Just avoid carbon until the day comes someone figures out how to match the Axis aluminum. For us anyway.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on January 21, 2020, 04:11:28 AM
But now you have to remove the t nut from the screw. Nooooooo

Slotted based plate is GOLD.  ;D

Slotted base is really nice.  For our use, we leave our 76 masts on all the time.  That way we only have to attach the two fuse screws and we are off.  The fuse screws on the carbon have less than half the thread length, so that is nice.  We never shimmed our bases so these may be stiffer for us  :)
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 21, 2020, 05:23:42 AM
We never shimmed our bases so these may be stiffer for us  :)

Say what....you crazy. You donít drink beer? No access to aluminum shim stock. Hell, I shimmed and hammer my Dodad in. I like everything solid as a rock.

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 21, 2020, 04:38:58 PM
The Gul wing explained. Sounds good to me.

They are sending my 1010 wing  ;D

https://youtu.be/1bmEuy1hliU
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: cnski on January 21, 2020, 06:07:33 PM
Hard not to agree with Exiled who posted earler in this thread at how similar the 660mm Axis wing is to the KeNalu IWA wings. Very similar in appearance and size to the IWA 580. Not to say that it was a copy of the KeNalu wing but I wonder if there was some inspiration there? I know that KeNalu is very popular in Australia. Lots of people there must have tested the KeNalu IWA series. And I know how good the KeNalu 580 is for kiting. That is a great video and Adrian explained much of what I experienced kiting on the KeNalu 580. That thing rips in the turns. Very easy to lay it over and drive through a turn without excessive lift. I'm sure the 660 will be a great wing. Not blistering fast with that thickness and a bit draggy but will excel in large surf or kiting in windy conditions where control in gnarlier conditions is needed. George at Delta Foils can make a VERY stiff carbon strut from his knowledge making kiteracing foils. He has Aluminum stuts as well. He just finished an 1880 cm2 and 2200 cm2 wing ready for testing.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on January 21, 2020, 07:11:32 PM
The design elements of wings have been researched for 120 years, there isn't anything proprietary or unique about them, it's a matter of "do you want cheese with that", a set of well-worn compromises. Of course, while there is at least 100 years of hydrofoil research, the massive body of design testing is in air, where you have to worry about Reynolds number and compression, plus that little 1000 times more dense thing. So no, we don't need a wing the size of a hang glider to fly low and slow, but everything else is just picking from the menu.

Dihedral on a foil, especially in the context of a surfing foil, is a sensible choice in certain applications. Self-stability and banking for turns are two benefits. A flat wing will always be more efficient, but they don't bank and they don't self-correct. Anyone who has ever flown a rudder-only RC sailplane knows you can make banked turns with only a rudder if your wing has dihedral, and you need ailerons and an elevator if it doesn't. We are more or less rudder-only. Yeah, we manage pitch like we had elevators and some people bank flat wings with body weight as if they had ailerons, but that's them. the rest of us are rudder-only as far as turns go. A flat wing will just skid through a rudder-only turn. We might not sense that with a foil since we're standing two feet above a tiny (relatively) wing, but that gull wing should enable some wicked smooth turns. That's what I was aiming for with the fat boy wing, but didn't really get there since I wasn't able to start the dihedral close to the wing base. Next time I'll do a better one. 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on January 22, 2020, 12:42:53 AM
They are sending my 1010 wing  ;D

Nice!  Stoked to hear how that one goes.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on January 22, 2020, 01:00:52 AM
The Gul wing explained. Sounds good to me.
They are sending my 1010 wing  ;D
The 1010 is all about speed it seems , I just hope it will be not too difficult to fly and turn for normal human beings

Adrian doesn't mention winging , I wonder how good the 660 (and the 770 and 880) will be for winging ?
When will the 660 be available?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 22, 2020, 05:15:44 AM
When will the 660 be available?

My guess is now, because the buy button went live.

https://axisfoils.com/collections/surf-foil-wings/products/s-series-660mm-carbon-front-wing
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on January 25, 2020, 08:25:00 AM
1010 front and 460 rear showed up yesterday.  Here are some comparison shots. 

The first couple are self explanatory.  The shots with 4 wings are 900, 1000, 1010, 1020 front to back.  The last shot is the 1000 with the 1010.  The 1010 and 460 flat almost flat on the ground. 

I had prepared myself for the 1010 to be paper thin.  It is not.  The 460 tail is super thin.  Gotta say, together they look badass....and very fast.

We still have to wait 2 weeks to get anything wet.  Arggghh!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 25, 2020, 08:42:23 AM
UPS shows my 1010 arriving Wednesday.

I passed on the 460 tail based on my experience riding my GoFoil team rider buddies GL setup and his feedback on all his custom tail wings.

I want the pump and glide, but will sacrifice some of that, to remove the skittishness of all flat front and rear setups.

The next time flkiter and I ride together, will can do some back to back testing of 460 flat tail versus 440 curved.

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on January 25, 2020, 04:42:45 PM
Once those foil wings come in I'll be heading up your way DW. Going to have you try the 370 rear also. Speeds up the 1000 wing and makes it loose but the turns seem to be tighter.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: liv2surf on January 26, 2020, 10:52:13 AM
I am a kite foiler, SUP surfer. I just got a wing. I wanted to understand why mast stiffness is so important to people in this thread and how and when sufficient or inadequate stiffness. is noticed (how it affects the feel and performance). Thanks

The carbon flexes more than aluminum mast. My buddy rode the carbon already. He is staying Aluminum.

Was the difference in stiffness so big that it was also not nice when winging? Or just paddling?

In that case I will have to wait for carbon mast V2 with integrated fuse

I have a Gofoil 29,5 carbon mast , stiff enough but not as stiff as Axis aluminium masts, but the new Gofoil wings are too expensive to build a quiver...
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on January 26, 2020, 11:01:12 AM
In my opinion, the less stiff the mast when you're sup'ing with big wings gives more wobble to the board. You may not notice it till you get on a stiffer mast. You'll usually use up more energy standing waiting for waves with a more flexible mast. I was getting like 30-40 mins of water time with a naish set up. Went to an hour or so with the Neil Pryde but still couldn't handle ocean conditions in over 10 knot wind conditions. Went to Axis and now I can sup for hours, be out in 20+ knots of wind and went from a 6'4" to a 5'8" board.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: obxDave on January 26, 2020, 09:40:59 PM
I am a kite foiler, SUP surfer. I just got a wing. I wanted to understand why mast stiffness is so important to people in this thread and how and when sufficient or inadequate stiffness. is noticed (how it affects the feel and performance). Thanks

IMHO we all tend to get a bit preoccupied with technology of our gear over basic wing foiling skills

Iím most likely riding with the most flexible mast out there, Gongís Al mast. Itís a thin kite foil mast developed when the average recreational kite foil wing was in the 500-700 sq cm range. I had the exact same mast on a 600 sq cm RRD kite foil 2 years ago :o (all from the same Asian factory). Iím now using that same mast on a 1900 sq cm foil. All you have to do is grab the foil wing tip and push on it gently to feel how easy the mast flexes.

So you can readily feel some minor wobble foiling in choppy water, or stomping on the rail to carve a turn. Does it make huge difference for learning to wing in choppy flat water conditions? I donít think so at all. Heck, the Gong team riders were/are doing moves on those same aluminum masts that 99% people on this forum will never achieve, myself included. For  paddle down winding and wave riding I think the flex would be more of a issue, and at a certain skill level, flex will certainly be a bigger issue. For most of the readers here, I doubt it

But we do love to talk about our techie gear, and spend money as fast as we can on even more techie gear! Itís what we do.....
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 27, 2020, 04:16:00 AM
If you SUP, then the mast stiffness helps a lot. It makes it way easier to stand on the board.

Other sports, with something more than just a paddle blade to lean on for balance, the lack of mast stiffness is a lot less important. So wings, sails, kites, donít worry about it. But if you buy a SUP to start winging, with plans to SUP one day, then do yourself a favor now, and get a stiff mast.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on January 27, 2020, 08:13:10 AM
If you SUP, then the mast stiffness helps a lot. It makes it way easier to stand on the board.

Other sports, with something more than just a paddle blade to lean on for balance, the lack of mast stiffness is a lot less important. So wings, sails, kites, donít worry about it. But if you buy a SUP to start winging, with plans to SUP one day, then do yourself a favor now, and get a stiff mast.

Also, the more you weigh, the more you notice this. 200 lb club for sure.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on January 27, 2020, 11:26:45 AM
With these questions about stiffness, I thought, "say, we can do some testing".

Yes, my test setup does include "B Is For Bedtime" and more appropriately, "Stupidity Should Be Painful".

First I did a few pushups on the mast.  Nothing.  Then I stood on it.  I felt zero flex.  Nothing.  I asked Chan to stand on it.  This thing is extremely stiff.  Way stiffer that our other carbon masts were. 

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: JEG on January 27, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
that's stiff indeed though I heard some people said they flex a little.
It would be interesting to do a flex comparison with the gofoil 29.5 mast?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on January 27, 2020, 10:15:26 PM
That is not a good way to test the stiffness of a mast, the moment-arm is only half the length of the mast

Attach the base to a wall , attach a fuse with an S1020 and apply force to the wingtips....
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on January 27, 2020, 11:29:27 PM
That is not a good way to test the stiffness of a mast, the moment-arm is only half the length of the mast

Attach the base to a wall , attach a fuse with an S1020 and apply force to the wingtips....

Hi Soepkip,

Our other carbon masts would noticeably flex under just a pushup (not kneeling or standing) supported in the same manner at both ends.  This is just a quick and easy test that offers a comparison that anyone can do at home in a few seconds without mounting anything.  You probably don't want to try standing on an aluminum mast supported like this if you think it might bend :)
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on January 31, 2020, 11:27:11 PM
When will the 660 be available?

My guess is now, because the buy button went live.

https://axisfoils.com/collections/surf-foil-wings/products/s-series-660mm-carbon-front-wing

I wonder how good th S660 will be for winging in waves?
Would you need to take a bigger wing and more than 15 knots to to get flying?
It would of course help if you are 65 kg/140lb but what if you are 85 kg/ 190 lbs?
@85 kg it is perhaps better to wait for the S770 and S880?
I like the idea of a foil that turns really well for winging.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on February 01, 2020, 03:49:48 AM
I wonder how good th S660 will be for winging in waves?
Would you need to take a bigger wing and more than 15 knots to to get flying?


The primary reason a 4m wing ding works, when kite foilers are using 8 meters, is we use massive foils.

Take away the massive foil and use that S660 Adrian kites with, and now you need an 8m wing ding.

Or very high winds. Better move to the Gorge.  The S880 will be my wave riding foil for winging.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: bigmtn on February 01, 2020, 08:38:42 AM
Was just talking to the guys at live2kite yesterday. He said the 770/880 wings are still in production/testing, so it'll be a few more months before they are available.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on February 01, 2020, 10:14:53 AM
I wonder how good th S660 will be for winging in waves?
Would you need to take a bigger wing and more than 15 knots to to get flying?


The primary reason a 4m wing ding works, when kite foilers are using 8 meters, is we use massive foils.

Take away the massive foil and use that S660 Adrian kites with, and now you need an 8m wing ding.

Or very high winds. Better move to the Gorge.  The S880 will be my wave riding foil for winging.

It depends on your weight and skill as well. Kathy Shipman was out at Ka'a foil surfing with a S660 that looked like a toy compared to my 1020. She was rocking it, flying swells all the way to the beach and getting on the waves with no apparent effort. The waves were dying on the reef, so the swells in the lagoon were generally tiny. I was getting about 100 yards before the waves petered out as far as my skill level permits. Kathy was going as far as she wanted to, at least three times further than I was.

I don't compare myself to people like Kathy, or Dave Kalama, or Eddie Ogata, but I do pay attention to what they do and try to emulate some of their skills. Flying a S660 is not something I'm going to aim for, but if you are light and very skilled, then apparently it works.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on February 01, 2020, 11:44:13 AM
I wonder how good th S660 will be for winging in waves?
Would you need to take a bigger wing and more than 15 knots to to get flying?


Or very high winds. Better move to the Gorge. 

or to Cape town , ohh I am already there...
@ 85 kg 190 lbs I use my 2.8 swing very often in combination with an Axis s1000
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on February 01, 2020, 02:33:06 PM
So if S1000 and 2.8m then you might need the 4.2m to power the 660. What bothers me personally about using these Swings super lit, is the canopy flapping. These canopies are going to break down in 2 years. Need more design evolution.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on February 01, 2020, 02:44:13 PM
In two years we'll be on V3.0 and all the stuff I've been flinging money at with both hands will be obsolete junk.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on February 01, 2020, 08:35:16 PM
So the 101 fucking rocks. Looking at it I thought there was no way this was going to be my goto downwind foil. Not enough there to lift my 230# ass. Wrong. In fact, it's a bit much. I paired it with the standard fuselage and a 500 stabilizer I had kicking around. The weird thing is that I can FEEL the more balanced lift coming from both wing and stab.

The wind was blasting at Ka'a--way more than forecast, and I stupidly rigged my 5M because I thought I'd need all the help I could get coming up. Wrong again, I got up on the foil when I was still on my knees. I ripped around for a while on the edge of control and beyond, doing a few extremely high speed faceplants. The waves were pretty festive in the lagoon, and I could get on the face of the waves and just stuff the foil into it, getting power from both the wave and the wing. Nutso. But I decided broken bones might be in my future, so I went in and rigged down to the 4.2. Should have gone for the 3.5.

The wind continued to build, and soon the entire lagoon looked like the old "Victory at Sea" intro footage. Wave peaks coming from both the swell coming over the reef and the sideways wind swell that was rapidly growing to waist high. Even though I was well up on the foil I was still bashing off waves constantly. Crazy fun, but yeah, crazy.

I nailed a tack kind of accidentally on the way out to the reef and then failed at least ten more times trying to do one on purpose. I didn't make a single jibe--had to touch down to turn out.

The 101 performed flawlessly--fast, stable, turns beautifully if not quickly and glides for days. I'm going to surf this puppy. This could be one of those things, where the nutty outlier you think will never work, or only work for one silly thing (downwinging) turns out to be the goto.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on February 02, 2020, 01:19:40 AM
He Bill,

That is awesome to hear!  Try it with the 460 on a windy day and let us know. 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: obxDave on February 03, 2020, 03:32:22 AM
Hey Bill, where would you say the Axis 101 falls in size wise (and profile thickness) compared to the GoFoil GL wings? GoFoil doesnít publish any useful  numbers on the GLís which is a pain :o  Do you still have any GL wings to compare side by side? Thanks!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on February 03, 2020, 06:56:58 AM
I'm hooked on the 1010, speed of the 1000 and pump pattern and glides of the 1020. Needs a little more speed than the 1020 but if you pump quickly, it'll pop right up onto foil. The 460 rear speeds it up onto foil faster than a 370 rear. Took a little practice to not pump as much as the 1000 and trust that it would keep gliding. Was getting doubles with the 1000 now triples are easy and if the waves line up, no limit. I was on a ultra short fuselage but, I'll test it on a short fuselage soon to see if the glide is better. Found the glide allowed me to rest more between pumps and glide over income swell easily to get the next wave.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on February 03, 2020, 07:52:57 AM
I am not sure if it is obvious in the image but the 460 is not going to give any real downlift / negative lift especially in relation to the 500, 440 (pictured).  In relation to the others it is wafer thin and very low angle. 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on February 03, 2020, 08:51:10 AM
Hey Bill, where would you say the Axis 101 falls in size wise (and profile thickness) compared to the GoFoil GL wings? GoFoil doesnít publish any useful  numbers on the GLís which is a pain :o  Do you still have any GL wings to compare side by side? Thanks!

The only GL wing I have is a 240, and that's a weird one. I'd say the lift is like a Iwa, but it's a lot faster a glides better.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on February 05, 2020, 02:12:16 PM
I laid the 1010 on top of the GL-210 today. Surface area looks the same to me.

The 1010 is a little wider, with a shorter cord.

My current thinking is, Iíll use the 1010 more for SUP, and the 1000 more for winging. I like the way curved tip front wings jibe better. Itís like the difference in a slalom fin versus wave fin.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on February 06, 2020, 03:10:13 PM
I sold my 1010 to a buddy today. That wing style (flat) is not for me. I much prefer the better surfing, better turning 1000. I will give up a little raw pump and glide, for what is more important and satisfying to me.

Like I said before, itís like the difference between a vertical race fin and a swept back wave fin. Iíll take the wave fin every time.
Title: Re: 2020 Axis foils
Post by: Rastaman3030 on February 20, 2020, 01:09:27 PM
Has anyone measured the weight of their full Axis foil rig (say 1020 wing, short fus, 75cm mast, etc) or whatever theyíre specifically using? Really curious where they are coming in at.

You can try them all when you come down here.

Cool! Iíll bring my scale. :)  My Gong rig weighs in at ~10.5 pounds (pro XL, 65cm mast). My Moses rig with a 70 cm mast and the 790 front wing weighs in at ~6.75 pounds. The difference is really noticeable. I figure just like the board, all that swing weight of the foil starts to add up.

Has anyone had the opportunity to weigh their Axis foil setup yet? I currently have the Gong XXL setup and am interested in getting a lighter weight foil, such as the Axis 1020. But I want to know just how much lighter it is to see if it's worth it.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on February 20, 2020, 01:44:56 PM
10.5 lbs for 102 with short fuse, 500 rear and 75cm mast.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on February 20, 2020, 07:03:04 PM
I switched my 101 to the short fuse with the 440 tail. Cowabunga. Pumps way better, picked up another increment of speed, and gets up quicker and easier. I don't see any downside. I put my 1020 on the standard fuse and 500 tail, and it seems very happy with that combo. Not much change. Now I have a light wind and strong wind combo I can stick on the mast with minimal fiddling--two screws and done.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on February 21, 2020, 04:40:25 AM
I switched my 101 to the short fuse with the 440 tail. Cowabunga. Pumps way better, picked up another increment of speed, and gets up quicker and easier. I don't see any downside. I put my 1020 on the standard fuse and 500 tail, and it seems very happy with that combo. Not much change. Now I have a light wind and strong wind combo I can stick on the mast with minimal fiddling--two screws and done.

Buy another short fuse and use it with the 102 and 500. It just makes pumping easier without any downside at your skill level. I just did the same for myself. I was being cheap in not buying another short fuse for that combo. I finally coughed up the cash.  ;D
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on February 21, 2020, 10:46:54 AM
Yeah, I've been fooling myself. the standard fuse pumps like it's in mashed potatoes with the 500 tail. I'll have to fork over some bucks I guess. When I get back to Hood River I'll convert that standard fuse to ultra short. Whack out a chunk and TIG weld it back together. I've only got a MIG here in Maui or I'd be out in the garage with a hacksaw instead of typing this.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Rastaman3030 on February 22, 2020, 07:19:29 AM
10.5 lbs for 102 with short fuse, 500 rear and 75cm mast.

Thanks for weighing it. I'm surprised the Axis setup isn't significantly lighter than the Gong. I'm not sure that this would be worth the upgrade for me changing over to the Axis foil setup. Has anyone had a Gong foil and switched to Axis? Or ridden both?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Fishman on February 22, 2020, 10:19:16 AM
10.5 lbs for 102 with short fuse, 500 rear and 75cm mast.

Thanks for weighing it. I'm surprised the Axis setup isn't significantly lighter than the Gong. I'm not sure that this would be worth the upgrade for me changing over to the Axis foil setup. Has anyone had a Gong foil and switched to Axis? Or ridden both?
I wonder how much difference weight makes in the water. Its not really "swing weight" being in the center of lift area.  The XL pro is about 2.4 lbs lighter than your XXL standard smaller area but it's a option if lighter is important to you.  The Axis foil is just a better quality foil, stiffer mast, better connection points, lots of wing designs and options... 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on March 05, 2020, 12:45:01 AM
I have been itching to check out the new 1010 alongside the 1000 and the 1020 and yesterday was the perfect day.  Slow build light wind and really steady. 

The place we are staying has a big garage style cabana right on the sand so we can do super easy gear swaps and stay fully rigged.  Love that!  I just mounted a 75 mast and then swapped assembled fuselage, wing, tail assemblies onto it.  Such a nice way to go.  Always 2 screws away from ready.

First up I took a few runs on the 1020, 500, standard fuselage.  That is such a great kit.  Super stable, easygoing and cruisy.  I used the Swing 6.0 and then changed out for the 5.  The wind speed hadn't really changed, I just wanted to see the difference and they were both still inflated form the day before :).  I went back and forth between wings a few more times

Went back in and grabbed the 1010 with the 460 and a short fuselage.  This was my first outing with those wings and man, they blew my drawers off.  They are still off.  That is an outstanding combo.  How that wing generates that much lift with that reduced area, volume and thickness is a mystery to me.  I had read that it was close to the 920 in terms of lift but my first reaction is that it is pretty damn close to the 1020...and whoahoo, is that a fast combo.  I had to narrow my stance a little (that is still confusing me, maybe the quick change to the short fuselage?) but  other than that it  was pretty well adjustment free.  If I was amazed by how easily it gets up I was doubly amazed by how it slides through lulls.  It feels like there is no resistance to slow it down.  Maintenance pumping is super easy and relaxed.  This slippery, slidey setup is going to get a lot of use.

So, now I want to see what it feels like with a 440 tail.  I go in and make that change.  That setup wasn't for me. It worked, but it took away that unbridled loveliness of the 460.  A lot of the slippery feel vanished and it felt more boxed in and tight with noticeably more drag.  The wind had picked up a little but with the 440 it was slower to get up and took more effort.  That 460 is a tiny tail with almost no drag and it is magic with the 1010.

It was blowing 15ish now and I went in and swapped for the 1000, 440 on a short fuselage.  That is still a great setup but more on par with the 1010 and the 440.  It was a little off of the all out magic of the 1010 with the 460.  So, I went in and put the 460 on the 1000.  Holy shit!  Wanna set a firecracker off behind your horse?  Holy shit!  That is a super fun combo as well.  The 460 tail is so drag free.  Switching to it feels like you have lost a piece of weed that you didn't know you were dragging.  I am ordering a few more of those and some of the smallest tails as well (370, 340). 

I also want to try all of these with standard fuselages but that will have to wait for another day. 

So happy to be back at it!




 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on March 05, 2020, 05:17:17 AM
Hey Admin,
If you get a chance, try the ultra short with the 1010 and 460 and 370 rear. Those are my favorite set ups right now. I use that for wing, sup, and even prone. I didn't like the 1010 on the short fuselage as much, felt like the potential speed was being held back. That 460 rear really helps with the stability using the ultra short.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Beasho on March 05, 2020, 06:18:29 AM
You Axis guys will like this.

Adrian Roper founder of AXIS Foils on the Progression Project. He discusses his history windsurfing, foils and technical chat.

Its interesting how balanced his perspective is with what he knows works and what people just seem to really like.  Things are still evolving.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-progression-project/e/67787091?autoplay=true
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on March 05, 2020, 07:22:31 AM
That is really cool Beasho!  Adrian must have pointed out the variation in personal preference 100 times in that hour. 

flkiter, I am wondering if there are some elements of foiling that are sport specific to winging.  You said that you are liking the added speed of the ultra short,  Is that mostly due to the quick cadence of the pump or something else as well?  I was really interested in what Adrain was saying about the cadence of the pump that goes along with fuselage length and rear wing size.  I was thinking that it might be nice for winging to have a fuselage on the longer side with a very small rear wing.  I want to try that. 

I think the 460 is actually Axis' smallest area tail, probably lowest volume as well.  It is really tiny, wafer thin little thing despite the 460 length.  That thing is an eye opener. 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on March 05, 2020, 08:46:06 AM
I use the 1010, ultra short fuselage and 460 or 370 rear for everything but, if I'm going to just be winging in waves doing DW runs between the waves and swell then I also like the 1000 on a short fuselage and 370 rear. I find the longer fuselage lets me glide more. The wing is giving me the speed when I want it so I'm not worried about going too slow and stalling the foil. I haven't tried the 460 flat wing with the 1000 yet so maybe today or this weekend I'll get on it. Been loving the 1010 so much, forgot all about trying that 460 with the 1000.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on March 05, 2020, 11:41:29 AM
I'm going to have to get a 460 to try. I've got a 340 that I haven't used yet--Mark was out of 370s.

I do love the 1010 once I'm up. It has plenty of lift even for a moose like me, but I have to get it going extremely fast to get up. Once I'm up the speed differential to the 1020 means there is almost too much lift. We fat guys all get save by lift being a function of the SQUARE of speed.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on March 05, 2020, 12:14:18 PM
The less drag the 1010 has behind it, the faster and better it performs. I felt like it had a governor on it with the longer fuselage and bigger rear wing. With the set up I do now, it can ride balls to the walls. You'll get quicker lift also. I found if there's 3 rolling swells that are less than a foot high, by the 3rd one I have enough speed to pop onto foil with the paddle. It's not for everyone but for my location it works really well.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on March 06, 2020, 12:45:23 AM
The less drag the 1010 has behind it, the faster and better it performs. I felt like it had a governor on it with the longer fuselage and bigger rear wing. With the set up I do now, it can ride balls to the walls. You'll get quicker lift also. I found if there's 3 rolling swells that are less than a foot high, by the 3rd one I have enough speed to pop onto foil with the paddle. It's not for everyone but for my location it works really well.

The lack of drag, even with the short fuselage is amazing and a little shocking.  To me it feels like less drag than even the 900 with the 440 but the 1010 has that effortless lift.  I rode this setup for an hour yesterday in increasing 5 meter wind and it is blowing my mind up.

The 460 tail is so narrow that the trailing edge is a full inch inside the end of the fuselage.  It's leading edge is so straight in comparison to all the other tails that a lot more of the leading edge is forward as well.  Same is true of the 1010 front wing so together a lot of leading edge and a lot of area is getting shifted forward in relation to the mast (when comparing to the 1000/440).  Once I saw that I moved my mast back and voila, my stance issue from the previous day corrected.  It was a full inch which I thought was pretty significant.  This really surprised me.  I had imagined if anything that I would be moving my stance back or the mast forward to adjust for lower lift from the wings.  In actuality I had to move my weight forward (which wasn't great) or the mast back (which ended up being awesome).  Now I just need to learn to keep up with this thing and to try breathing every once in a while :).
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on March 09, 2020, 12:48:20 AM
Are any of you already using the carbon mast?

Any new insights on stiffness, less drag than the alu mast?

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on March 09, 2020, 02:57:18 AM
Are any of you already using the carbon mast?

Any new insights on stiffness, less drag than the alu mast?

We only have the one so far so we left it home for this trip.  The other one is stuck in Caronavirus limbo.  I will check it out first thing when I get back though.  Water is almost 43 degrees at home now :).
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on March 09, 2020, 11:55:51 PM
Corona virus yeah , I pre ordered the s1010 in November....still not sure when I will get it.

Did anyone weigh the new and the old fuselage ?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on March 10, 2020, 02:47:47 AM
Hang in there for that 1010.  It is really cool.  Grab the 460 tail with it as well.  It is an eye opener.

I had another session on the 1000 with the 460.  That is an outstanding combination.  I also had another very light wind session yesterday with the big 1020 and I put 460 tail on it on the longer standard fuselage.  Amazing.  Kind of like increasing wheel base but going to a single rear wheel on a pivot.  It is crazy what 3 inches of fuselage and a seemingly small tail wing change can make. 

I am having a ball geeking out on this stuff but Chantalle had to tell me to leave her gear alone :). 

I asked they guys at Axis for more details on all of their tail wings and they are going to put something together for us.  They are a really responsive crew and I dig how they live this stuff. 

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on March 28, 2020, 04:43:11 PM
I got in an amazing 2 hour solo session today.  My first on the new 76 mast.  I was using the 1010, 460, short fuselage and the Swing 6.0.  This setup is outrageously slippery both on the surface and on the foil.  There is so little drag.  It is immediately evident when you get any forward motion.  It was super light when I launched (actually, a new low for me).  The smoothing at the mast base (and the lack of all ridges, bumps, joints, pockets) make more difference than I had imagined.  What I hadn't considered is that the mast would feel noticeably faster when flying...but it does.  That must be due to the significant taper.  The carbon mast progressively tapers to much less thickness and width at the fuselage where the aluminum mast is constant over its entire length.  Once you are up and flying there is a lot less meat in the water and it is very noticeable.  What a feeling.  Does mast taper provide extra lift?  There is a sensation of extra lift but possibly that is reduced drag that I am feeling.  I am not sure but I am stoked about it.  I am 168 lbs right now but I didn't notice any reduction in stiffness while winging.  I want to get us set up so we are 100% on these carbon masts.  Damn, I am going to need a couple new fuselages.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0076/2006/7439/products/axis-foils-all-together-16mm19mm-carbon_ae0b7e46-bc5e-4862-a322-8ebae5aebc9d_1024x1024@2x.jpg?v=1582662256)

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0076/2006/7439/products/axis-masts-top-down-standing-on-white-background_80b119ce-299d-473a-9558-cbf407844e61_1024x1024@2x.jpg?v=1582662256)
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 23, 2020, 01:11:55 PM
3.6m winging today, with Evan from Axis in town, with lots of prototypes to try.

I finally found my magic tail wing. The flat tail 460 wasnít for me.

This new tail turns the 1000 into magic for me. I had the most insane wave riding, just holding the 3.6 by the nose, connecting and surfing and connecting......in the Banana River! Longer connections than Iíve had in the ocean on down winders. Magic day, magic session.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49810900016_5361aee161.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49810898916_abbf306ec6.jpg)
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Phils on April 24, 2020, 03:05:00 AM
Sounds great Dwight.  Little off topic but do you use the same handles on the 3.6 that you use with your 6?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 24, 2020, 03:43:24 AM
Sounds great Dwight.  Little off topic but do you use the same handles on the 3.6 that you use with your 6?

No...with the 3.6 my front hand is on the 2nd handle. Harness line on the 4th. Rear hand on the 6th.

BTW, the wind was 25-35 mph, eventually hitting 40 on the sensor. I was done by the time it hit 40.. Anyway, in the harness (Upwind) tamed the ride and was easier than unhooked, buffeting and bucking with just my arms. We really are reaching windsurf sail levels of control when itís nukin. Once I got way upwind to the deep water and big wind waves, it was all down wind amazing wave rides unhooked, working on reading the water, going farther and farther holding the nose handle with each run.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 24, 2020, 03:52:42 AM
The man, the myth, the legend, Piros, just gave his approval on my Instagram account. ďThe best Axis rearĒ.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_V0xlQDoAk/?igshid=1iyzp3e3ih4oj
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Thatspec on April 24, 2020, 09:11:51 AM
That 390 looks great, almost an exact replica of my Gong 40cm.

I was going to pick up a second 100cm carbon mast from Gong but who knows when or if those guys will ever ship internationally again. The "Access to Axis" may win out assuming there is access and I wanted a slightly shorter mast anyway.

Admin or PB, as Oregon folks, who's your favorite dealer of this stuff (pm me if you feel that's better)? I Don't think anyone in the Gorge is a dealer, assuming it has to be mail ordered.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on April 24, 2020, 09:39:35 AM
That 390 looks great, almost an exact replica of my Gong 40cm.

I was going to pick up a second 100cm carbon mast from Gong but who knows when or if those guys will ever ship internationally again. The "Access to Axis" may win out assuming there is access and I wanted a slightly shorter mast anyway.

Admin or PB, as Oregon folks, who's your favorite dealer of this stuff (pm me if you feel that's better)? I Don't think anyone in the Gorge is a dealer, assuming it has to be mail ordered.

Hi thatspec,
What pieces do you need?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Thatspec on April 24, 2020, 09:48:02 AM
Hi Admin,
I would need a complete setup but just poking around it looks like it might be a custom package. The 1010 front wing would be the main reason to move in this direction. Ultra short fuse, 90cm mast and a stab to be determined. Assume the 390 is not likely an available item yet and probably want something longer for the 1010 anyway.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 24, 2020, 10:01:33 AM
The 460 tail is the designed mate for the 1010.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on April 24, 2020, 10:02:35 AM
Hi Admin,
I would need a complete setup but just poking around it looks like it might be a custom package. The 1010 front wing would be the main reason to move in this direction. Ultra short fuse, 90cm mast and a stab to be determined. Assume the 390 is not likely an available item yet and probably want something longer for the 1010 anyway.

Got it.  We have a bunch of Axis that we are going to unload but none of those items.  We order directly from the Axis site: https://axisfoils.com/ .
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Thatspec on April 24, 2020, 10:11:39 AM
Thanks for the info guys! What I've learned about myself is it's best to draw out the research and purchase phase as long as possible. Once the item(s) are acquired I'll start looking for what might be better ::)
That said, it's my civic duty to spend money right now :)
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on April 24, 2020, 12:50:59 PM
If anyone wants the 1010 set up, I highly recommend the ultra short fuselage and 460,370 or 340 rear. You won't get the full potential of the 1010 without a fast rear.
The 390 rear is my main rear wing for winging on the 1000 and 900.
Different gear for different styles and conditions. Some like carving waves, others pumping for 3's and more, some just winging so if you know what you'll be using it for, that'll help when getting the right set up for you. Also don't forget about the original surf series, still my favorite wings for easy learning of the wing and catching tiny bumps. If you're just getting into the foil stuff, don't go super performance just cause the wing is new, it'll impede your learning.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on April 24, 2020, 09:14:36 PM
I've been using the 1010 with the 460 or the 340 rear. The 460 lets me get up a little quicker and is more stable, the 340 is just silly fun and loose. It won't settle into a smooth altitude, a do a lot more swell bashing and bobbing up and down, but it's fast without feeling like it's promoting overfoiling. I swapped back to the 500 just before the COVID lockdown when coming back in to swap stuff was no big deal. Solidly locked in place, and I can see why I used to like it, but it felt like I'd put a speed limiter on.

460 feels like the right stabilizer for the 1010, but I think I'll probably wind up using the 340 more, just because it makes the combo feel so responsive. Now if I can just learn to calm it down a bit.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on April 25, 2020, 05:53:43 AM
I did a fun session on the 1010/460 yesterday and reminded myself that this is a big wing.  In terms of lift it is a beast.  I mention that because for mid weight riders this may sound like a step down (lower lift) wing but I don't think it is.  This is an alternate big wing.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on April 25, 2020, 08:21:33 AM
I didn't realize you were on the 1010/460. We were on the same setup. I thought you were on the 1020 since mine seemed a lot faster. Probably just a wing size issue--the 6M is a beast. I was catching you quickly on the starboard tack. Hard to say on the port tack since I was falling on the jibe. I think I see what DW was saying about the flat wing (1010) losing speed on turns. Even when I committed to the jibe my speed dropped substantially as I turned downind. I need to either turn harder or maintain speed better. I'm always looking for equipment to compensate for my shortcomings.

I think I'm going to drop back to the 1020 to work on jibes. I also need to either ditch my front straps or learn to foil heel/toe instead of switchfoot. I can't get my foot out of the strap until I move my back foot forward, and even then it's a concentration break. If I try to slide the front foot back the board rises and keeps my foot in the strap. I'm really pissed that my jibes have been set so far back--I was getting close while I was on Maui, now I'm back to square one.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Thatspec on April 25, 2020, 09:58:25 AM
Temira was way off on the forecast yesterday, wind kicked in just as I turned around to head into it on my paddle ::)

Thanks to all you guys again for the personal experiences! I wasn't able to draw out the research and shopping experience as long as I'd hoped and after an almost instant response to queries from 'Lenny" at Axis, a 1010 / 390 combo should be on the way next week when 390's come in  (went to directly through the Axis site).
Nobody specifically mentioned that combo but if 340's and 370's work ok... I just like the shape of it, one I'm used to and no pointy carbon bits pointing upward toward me ;D
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on April 25, 2020, 10:21:39 AM
I didn't realize you were on the 1010/460. We were on the same setup. I thought you were on the 1020 since mine seemed a lot faster. Probably just a wing size issue--the 6M is a beast. I was catching you quickly on the starboard tack. Hard to say on the port tack since I was falling on the jibe. I think I see what DW was saying about the flat wing (1010) losing speed on turns. Even when I committed to the jibe my speed dropped substantially as I turned downind. I need to either turn harder or maintain speed better. I'm always looking for equipment to compensate for my shortcomings.

I think I'm going to drop back to the 1020 to work on jibes. I also need to either ditch my front straps or learn to foil heel/toe instead of switchfoot. I can't get my foot out of the strap until I move my back foot forward, and even then it's a concentration break. If I try to slide the front foot back the board rises and keeps my foot in the strap. I'm really pissed that my jibes have been set so far back--I was getting close while I was on Maui, now I'm back to square one.

Bill, you were screaming on starboard.  I was cheering for you on one run.  It was hysterically fast.  I was edge of disaster most of the time on the 5.0 / 1010.  The 1000 / 4.2 would have been the call for me.  My 4.2 is getting repaired or I would have been on it.  I need to improve a lot at going downwind overpowered to kill the wing.

Thatspec, it is going to be good again today.  Come join us.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Thatspec on April 25, 2020, 11:29:33 AM

Thatspec, it is going to be good again today.  Come join us.

Thanks, I will in the very near future, still kinda recovering from "something" and I'd be in the water too much. SUPing on glass is a different level of commitment. Next 70+ sunny day though...
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on May 01, 2020, 04:07:42 AM
I've revisited the 920 this week.  Chan is liking the 820 more now so the 920 may have some vacancies going forward.  The 920 may not be the sexiest Axis wing but it is great compromise wing for super gusty spring conditions.  We have had a lot of 12-30 with fairly strong current (choppy unsettled water).  I have been finding the 1020 and 1010 to be like bronco riding when it is like that.  The 1000/370 is so fun once it is going but it is definitely more work to get started in this current.  I am really digging the mellow consistency of the 920/400.   
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 01, 2020, 04:47:00 AM
Yeah, I lost access to my (her) 920. Jacky retired, she can ride everyday.

Did you order the 390? Mine shipped yesterday.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on May 01, 2020, 05:33:42 AM
No, we just got the 370 and 340 which are great additions.  One thing that I hadn't considered is that a smaller tail lets you pressure your back foot more or spread out your stance when you are overpowered.  Having to be too forward or narrow stanced when it is really bumpy and gusty is a pretty awkward thing and these new (for us) tails mellow that out a lot. 

Right now I am using:

1020/440 when it is super light.
1010 /460 also for really light conditions.
920/400 as my windier but junky setup.
1000/370 windy and steady.

The conditions here have been fun but nutty.  The only legit Covid launch is wind shaded by an island and then once you are past that the river is flowing at 300 beneath the Dalles Dam but we are also just below the Hood and the White Salmon rivers so we are getting that extra flow and confusion.  It is really fun but also really challenging. 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 01, 2020, 07:06:10 AM
I asked Evan why the 390 was so magical. The anhedral? He said itís a different foil section than the others. The testers liked it so much, they ordered a production run right away.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Solent Foiler on May 01, 2020, 07:16:16 AM

Right now I am using:

1020/440 when it is super light.
1010 /460 also for really light conditions.
920/400 as my windier but junky setup.
1000/370 windy and steady.


If you had to choose two of the four (I know it's probably like choosing between children right  ;))

Interested to see if you'd choose both HA foils (given the market hype) or you'd still keep a high lift shape...
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on May 01, 2020, 09:45:58 AM
When the wind is good (over 18 and not too rangy) the 1000 is my favorite.  It is really fun, quick and smooth.  The downside is that I would miss days if it was my only wing.  You could match that with either of the big wings (1010 or 1020) and cover a very wide group of conditions.  Both of those big wings are great.  I haven't outgrown the 1020 yet.  It foils in surprisingly little wind and is a very stable wing.  It is not a speedster but I am still at the point where it all feels exciting and all foiling is fun foiling.  When it is really light I end up putting it on more than the 1010 because it is a sure thing.  The 1010 lifts almost as much, stays foiling almost as long and is noticeably faster but the key there is almost.  I am starting to think that if I could have only one it would have to be the 920.  It gets up really well and stays manageable until it is crazy windy. 

We also have the 900 and the 820.  The 900 takes a lot of wind for me to get going and it wants to drop pretty quickly at any lull.  We also have the 820 which I only have one day on.  It was also too much work for me.  Chan uses the 920, 820 and 900 like I am using the 1020, 920 and 1000.  The 1010 is kind of redundant but I loved it when we were getting days of 12-15 and no current down in Baja. 

Consider these as new foiler comments.  I am sure that riders who can really work the foil could get a lot more out of each one of these. 

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Solent Foiler on May 01, 2020, 10:54:42 AM
When the wind is good (over 18 and not too rangy) the 1000 is my favorite.  It is really fun, quick and smooth.  The downside is that I would miss days if it was my only wing.  You could match that with either of the big wings (1010 or 1020) and cover a very wide group of conditions.  Both of those big wings are great.  I haven't outgrown the 1020 yet.  It foils in surprisingly little wind and is a very stable wing.  It is not a speedster but I am still at the point where it all feels exciting and all foiling is fun foiling.  When it is really light I end up putting it on more than the 1010 because it is a sure thing.  The 1010 lifts almost as much, stays foiling almost as long and is noticeably faster but the key there is almost.  I am starting to think that if I could have only one it would have to be the 920.  It gets up really well and stays manageable until it is crazy windy. 

We also have the 900 and the 820.  The 900 takes a lot of wind for me to get going and it wants to drop pretty quickly at any lull.  We also have the 820 which I only have one day on.  It was also too much work for me.  Chan uses the 920, 820 and 900 like I am using the 1020, 920 and 1000.  The 1010 is kind of redundant but I loved it when we were getting days of 12-15 and no current down in Baja. 

Consider these as new foiler comments.  I am sure that riders who can really work the foil could get a lot more out of each one of these.

Great to have your insight - thanks for sharing. I will be getting a HA foil later this summer but not yet sure how it would fit into my current setup or if it really is HA for everything, even for 'new' foilers.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: obxDave on May 05, 2020, 01:12:10 AM
So I have a question on the 1000 and 1010 wings. Is anyone in the 170# and up range tacking (not jibing) to both sides (toe-to-heel and vice versa) on this wing and consistently staying up on the foil throughout the tack?

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 05, 2020, 03:40:58 AM
So I have a question on the 1000 and 1010 wings. Is anyone in the 170# and up range tacking (not jibing) to both sides (toe-to-heel and vice versa) on this wing and consistently staying up on the foil throughout the tack?

Never tried with those. But can rank them in two categories.

The 1010 will stay airborne at a slower speed than the 1000. Then pump back up after a fail easier.

The 1000 will glide farther ďwhen bankedĒ. So if enough wind, the 1000 should carry more speed, farther through the eye, without wing power. The 1000 is my 18+ wind wing.



Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: obxDave on May 05, 2020, 05:36:27 AM
So I have a question on the 1000 and 1010 wings. Is anyone in the 170# and up range tacking (not jibing) to both sides (toe-to-heel and vice versa) on this wing and consistently staying up on the foil throughout the tack?

Never tried with those. But can rank them in two categories.

The 1010 will stay airborne at a slower speed than the 1000. Then pump back up after a fail easier.

The 1000 will glide farther ďwhen bankedĒ. So if enough wind, the 1000 should carry more speed, farther through the eye, without wing power. The 1000 is my 18+ wind wing.

So Dwight, here is what Iím grappling with. I ride a lot in these gusty 17-30 mph ish conditions. Good ole OBX.  And I think in the higher winds I should be riding a smaller wing than my 1900 sq cm XL pro.  So I rig my smaller Moses 790 (1550 sq cm, Mid aspect ratio and thin profile). It works great for general riding and jibing. Jibing always seems to be a no brainer regardless of foil or wing-a-ding for me since the ďwindageĒ is helping to keep the speed up. 

But with tacking itís just the opposite.  Itís like Iím not carrying enough extra speed going into the transition with the smaller 790 wing to compensate for the higher stall speed and screaming headwind, so I end up coming off the foil easily.  Turning into a 25-30 mph direct head wind while tacking is like riding into a brick wall!  Even with a couple of extra mph going into tack, that head wind slows me down friggin fast regardless of how ďglideyĒ my foil is.  For some reason that XL pro has just enough high end and low end to get me through the tack on the foil (albeit, with a pretty tight turn) so much easier.

I watch really good wingers floating around on tacks effortlessly but they seem to be doing it in what seems like far more tame winds, perhaps on far more efficient wings than my XL pro and more efficient wing-a-dings than my well worn V1 Duotones. I keep thinking I want a foil like the 1000 thatís easy to carve, but I want it even thinner (less volume) and one notch up in size at around 1500-1700 sq cm. Maybe that is what Axis is working on. I listen to Fanatic talking about their new HA winging foils and Patrice at Gong also talking about his new HA Veloce foils and think, ok maybe thatís what Iím looking for.  Mostly I think I have too much bloody time on my hands geeking on this wing stuff, and that my skills are lacking!

Here are some tacks Iím talking about where the XL pro keeps me up on foil. I just canít pull them off as easily with my 790.
https://youtu.be/4aDOVcl5z70
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 05, 2020, 08:29:57 AM
Next high wind day Iíll try tacking the 1000 with my new 390 tail.

In the mean time, VB_foil needs to come down and let you try tacking his Armstrong HS1550  ;D
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: obxDave on May 05, 2020, 01:27:29 PM
Next high wind day Iíll try tacking the 1000 with my new 390 tail.

In the mean time, VB_foil needs to come down and let you try tacking his Armstrong HS1550  ;D


Ok, cool. Maybe these new Duotone Echos will up my speed some as well.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on May 05, 2020, 11:45:30 PM
In the mean time, VB_foil needs to come down and let you try tacking his Armstrong HS1550  ;D

It would be very nice to compare the Armstrong HS1550 with the Axis S1000 and S1010 : early lift, speed , turning , pumping and glide 

And a comparison between the Armstrong CF 2400 v2 and the Axis S1020 please ,  for wing , sup and prone.....
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 08, 2020, 03:17:21 AM
Next high wind day Iíll try tacking the 1000 with my new 390 tail.

In the mean time, VB_foil needs to come down and let you try tacking his Armstrong HS1550  ;D


Ok, cool. Maybe these new Duotone Echos will up my speed some as well.

Well I rode the 1000 yesterday, but I let you down. I was too chicken to try a tack with my 2.8m. Plus it was cold. 74 degrees! Felt like Winter.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: VB_Foil on May 08, 2020, 02:09:53 PM
Next high wind day Iíll try tacking the 1000 with my new 390 tail.

In the mean time, VB_foil needs to come down and let you try tacking his Armstrong HS1550  ;D


Ok, cool. Maybe these new Duotone Echos will up my speed some as well.

Booked a trip down to Rodanthe for the week leading up to July 4th.  Staying 1/4 mile from Real.  Let's try and meet up for a session!  We can swap wings around and I can take notes on tacks  ;D
Title: Re: Axis Foi
Post by: obxDave on May 08, 2020, 04:09:46 PM
Booked a trip down to Rodanthe for the week leading up to July 4th.  Staying 1/4 mile from Real.  Let's try and meet up for a session!  We can swap wings around and I can take notes on tacks  ;D

Sure! Hopefully the sea grass levels will still be minimal by then in the sound. Then again the ocean should be a lot warmer. Good time for some downwinders...

Well I rode the 1000 yesterday, but I let you down. I was too chicken to trying a tack with my 2.8m. Plus it was cold. 74 degrees! Felt like Winter.

No worries :). Must have been much of the east coast. It was blowing 22-35 here today and yep, colder water. Plenty overpowered on the 4m, and crazy things tend to happen when I try to tack well overpowered.  My success for the day was finally getting rid of my spongy Gong Al mast and replacing it with a nice stiffy 19 mm Axis mast.  Night and day  difference in feel and control, and especially noticeable on a really choppy day like today. Happy camper. I added a 3.3m echo to my new wing order for the really cranking days!
Title: Re: Axis Foi
Post by: Thatspec on May 08, 2020, 05:25:13 PM
My success for the day was finally getting rid of my spongy Gong Al mast and replacing it with a nice stiffy 19 mm Axis mast.  Night and day  difference in feel and control, and especially noticeable on a really choppy day like today. Happy camper. I added a 3.3m echo to my new wing order for the really cranking days!

So Dave, the 19mm Axis mast just drops into the Gong fuse slot with no machine work?
If so that opens up a lot of interesting options :)
Title: Re: Axis Foi
Post by: obxDave on May 09, 2020, 01:31:25 AM
My success for the day was finally getting rid of my spongy Gong Al mast and replacing it with a nice stiffy 19 mm Axis mast.  Night and day  difference in feel and control, and especially noticeable on a really choppy day like today. Happy camper. I added a 3.3m echo to my new wing order for the really cranking days!

So Dave, the 19mm Axis mast just drops into the Gong fuse slot with no machine work?
If so that opens up a lot of interesting options :)

Nope, machine shop required to go from the (spongy!) 14.5 mm width Gong mast to the 19 mm Axis. I never knew what a really stiff mast felt like since that Gong has been all Iíve basically ridden. I just got used to the ďwobbleĒ. Amazing difference. Ordered a 68 and 90 cm Axis mast to go with my current 75cm. Itís definitely not light compared to my Moses stuff, but what can I say, love that XL pro, and the foil rig weight doesnít bother me for now.

If I wanted to really geek out, I could have a much lighter fuselage made (the Gong fuselage is just heavy, clunky straight bar stock) and adapt it to my Moses carbon surf masts. Easily shed a bunch of weight. Maybe a summer project.....

Also really looking forward to trying the new Gong Veloce foil wings. That XL will be 1600 sq cm with just 1.35 liters of volume. I want one!





Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Phils on May 09, 2020, 12:43:12 PM
Apparently there is a new Axis front foil around the corner:  "1115".  I saw a quick video and it looked pretty high aspect and large.  Not sure where it fits in.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on May 09, 2020, 06:15:25 PM
That looks pretty easy, Wouldn't work for me though because the main reason I went to the Axis over GoFoil and everything else is the fuselage. Super solid and precise wing mount, excellent stabilizer mount.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 09, 2020, 06:26:12 PM
That looks pretty easy, Wouldn't work for me though because the main reason I went to the Axis over GoFoil and everything else is the fuselage. Super solid and precise wing mount, excellent stabilizer mount.

Ah, good point. The foil I rode before Axis, had a stiff mast, but I could push on the wing tips and watch the fuselage twist.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: obxDave on May 09, 2020, 11:27:51 PM
That looks pretty easy, Wouldn't work for me though because the main reason I went to the Axis over GoFoil and everything else is the fuselage. Super solid and precise wing mount, excellent stabilizer mount.

Completely understand. Axis has super quality well thought out parts. But that clunky Gong foil wing has helped me progress faster than the other front wings Iíve tried so far.  The Live2Kite guys also told me Adrian was testing a slightly larger version of the 1010 (guess that would be the 1115 Philís mentioned), and that the 1010 itself was hopelessly backordered. Oh well, the Gong/Axis combo works great for now, and lots of new gear appearing on horizon to feed the addiction :P
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on May 10, 2020, 12:01:22 AM
A slightly larger 101 would be a good thing, though what I'd really like is a bigger 1000. I rode my 1020 today in pretty good wind. Mostly I used a 4.2 F-1 and it was fun, but a bit of work in the lulls. I switched to the 5.0 wing but kept the 1020 purely for "try one thing" purposes. I wish I'd switched to the 101. Love that speed.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 10, 2020, 02:34:25 AM
A slightly larger 101 would be a good thing, though what I'd really like is a bigger 1000. I rode my 1020 today in pretty good wind. Mostly I used a 4.2 F-1 and it was fun, but a bit of work in the lulls. I switched to the 5.0 wing but kept the 1020 purely for "try one thing" purposes. I wish I'd switched to the 101. Love that speed.

When more gen 2 wing dings hit the market, upgrade. The 102 will become faster. Youíll lose the urge to get off it.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on May 10, 2020, 03:14:40 AM
Apparently there is a new Axis front foil around the corner:  "1115".  I saw a quick video and it looked pretty high aspect and large.  Not sure where it fits in.
Have You got a link?

I want an 880!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on May 10, 2020, 04:03:31 AM
A slightly larger 101 would be a good thing, though what I'd really like is a bigger 1000. I rode my 1020 today in pretty good wind. Mostly I used a 4.2 F-1 and it was fun, but a bit of work in the lulls. I switched to the 5.0 wing but kept the 1020 purely for "try one thing" purposes. I wish I'd switched to the 101. Love that speed.

You looked solid the whole time.  I was liking the 920/400 a lot.  What a great combo.  That East wind is really different in the spring when the current is running.  With wind and water clipping along in the same direction it seems like you lose a wing size.  My 3.5 was just on the edge of too small in the lulls. 

I am interested to see where Axis goes with that 1600 to 1800 range. 

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on May 10, 2020, 04:23:32 AM
When more gen 2 wing dings hit the market, upgrade. The 102 will become faster. Youíll lose the urge to get off it.

With my 1020 I went from a 440 to a 370 rear, seems faster to me now and I am almost not breaching anymore
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 10, 2020, 05:24:29 AM
With my 1020 I went from a 440 to a 370 rear, seems faster to me now and I am almost not breaching anymore
Unfortunately that doesnít work well for heavy dudes in light wind.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: surfwingsteve on May 10, 2020, 07:16:24 AM
Pono Bill:
 "I'm always looking for equipment to compensate for my shortcomings."

I think this is so unique and hilarious for this sport.  Can't get upwind?  I need a harness.  Can't get up on the foil?  I clearly Need a bigger foil. Can't tack in low winds?  I need a bigger kite.....and It goes on and on doesn't it?  It did take a bigger kite, a bigger foil and a decent chunk of my daughters first year tuition in college to fly this thing.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on May 10, 2020, 12:05:43 PM
With my 1020 I went from a 440 to a 370 rear, seems faster to me now and I am almost not breaching anymore
Unfortunately that doesnít work well for heavy dudes in light wind.
I have no problems in light winds @190 lbs . I have the feeling that a good pump technique is more helpfull than a big stabilizer.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on May 10, 2020, 06:56:56 PM
Pono Bill:
 "I'm always looking for equipment to compensate for my shortcomings."

I think this is so unique and hilarious for this sport.  Can't get upwind?  I need a harness.  Can't get up on the foil?  I clearly Need a bigger foil. Can't tack in low winds?  I need a bigger kite.....and It goes on and on doesn't it?  It did take a bigger kite, a bigger foil and a decent chunk of my daughters first year tuition in college to fly this thing.

Totally not unique to this sport--at least for me. I'm always looking for ways to buy a bump in expertise, from rollerblades to race cars. One of my heroes, the great Kas Kastner said: "Never be beaten by equipment". I take it a step or ten further. At age 73 it's no brag to say I have more money than time. If I can advance a step with my checkbook, I'm in. It doesn't always work, and you have to pick your horses carefully because a lot of stuff is a waste of both time and money, but sometimes...

Today was big fun. East wind at 20-25 with some big holes, but if you found the right place it was blowdryer wind--steady state. I used my 6M wing, which was too much, but I don't mind being a bit overpowered. Admin was nearly making his switchfoot jibes. Chan looked like she was so relaxed, she was probably mentally writing a to-do list. We seem to be getting to that point where little stuff matters more--I can feel little things, like I know my stabilizer was too big. It wasn't that long ago that all that mattered was "can I get up".
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on May 11, 2020, 03:17:01 AM
Geez that was fun.  That was 4.2 perfection for me.  Also my first day in the spring suit which is so liberating :).  I am really enjoying the 920 in these conditions.  It is a such a relaxed wing and it feels super predictable for turns.  It stays flying really well trough lulls.  Chan is turned on to the 820 now so when it hits 18 the 920 is available.  Both the 400 and the 370 tails are working great for me with this one.  I think I am going to use this as a middle ground between the light wind kit and the 1000/370.  Kind of my 18 to 25 setup.  Those bigger blasts on the Oregon side have been getting in to the low 30's and that was the only time that I was really on breach alert.

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Phils on May 11, 2020, 04:06:41 AM
Geez that was fun.  That was 4.2 perfection for me.  Also my first day in the spring suit which is so liberating :).  I am really enjoying the 920 in these conditions.  It is a such a relaxed wing and it feels super predictable for turns.  It stays flying really well trough lulls.  Chan is turned on to the 820 now so when it hits 18 the 920 is available.  Both the 400 and the 370 tails are working great for me with this one.  I think I am going to use this as a middle ground between the light wind kit and the 1000/370.  Kind of my 18 to 25 setup.  Those bigger blasts on the Oregon side have been getting in to the low 30's and that was the only time that I was really on breach alert.

Are you guys on your Fanatic wing boards yet? 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on May 11, 2020, 04:12:24 AM
Not yet.  They called last week to say that the container was arriving this week so it should be soon now.  Stoked to see how that goes.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: cnski on May 11, 2020, 10:36:57 AM
Apparently there is a new Axis front foil around the corner:  "1115".  I saw a quick video and it looked pretty high aspect and large.  Not sure where it fits in.
Interested in hearing more about this wing. Any link to the video you mentioned?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: RobM on May 11, 2020, 12:34:52 PM
I'm wondering what everyone is finding for range of the 1000/370/short fuse setup which I have.  I'm 185 (85kg) and using it from ~14 - 25 knots so far. I'm sure I'll be able to get going on it in lighter wind with better technique and time, finding it a bit unruly/breachy into the mid 20's and higher.
Cheers, stay healthy!  Rob
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 11, 2020, 01:22:28 PM
RobM,

The 1000 has no top end control limit for me. Try a smaller wing surfer when itís super windy.

Just had an ocean session with the 1000 and 390 today. The 390 is a freak. So good......

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: RobM on May 11, 2020, 02:05:08 PM
RobM,

The 1000 has no top end control limit for me. Try a smaller wing surfer when itís super windy.

Just had an ocean session with the 1000 and 390 today. The 390 is a freak. So good......

Thanks for info Dwight, only been using the Naish 5.3m as I've sold my v1 4m and waiting to get a 3.6m (none around at the moment), so I guess I'm just getting the 1000 foil a little "powered up" with the 5.3 in those 24+ kn days.  Rob
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 11, 2020, 03:18:37 PM
Itís not so much the foil is too powered up.

Itís more the wing-surfer is man handling the rider and taking away the touch, finesse, and feel, needed to ride the foil as well as you could. Going down a wing size, puts you back in command. You do a better job flying the foil, so you push it to the max with complete confidence.

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on May 12, 2020, 05:11:54 AM
RobM,

The 1000 has no top end control limit for me. Try a smaller wing surfer when itís super windy.

Just had an ocean session with the 1000 and 390 today. The 390 is a freak. So good......

I thought I was ok with my 370 / 400 / 440 ...

How is the 390 with the S1020 and S1010 ?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Thatspec on May 14, 2020, 11:04:27 AM

How is the 390 with the S1020 and S1010 ?

After two sessions, one kite, one wing, the 390 with 1010 combo is working great. A lot better support back there than expected, even at a near standstill a few times. Would also mention since it was my first time on the 1010 that the slower roll rate with that wingspan definitely makes it easier to switch feet. Interestingly to me at least (and I can't quantify this yet), the 1010 definitely feels slower than my Gong L pro (which is 100cm2 smaller though), was really expecting to feel the opposite.

More testing today hopefully with the kite. Won't be winging two days in a row until I get the harness figured out, I'm really sore :(
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on May 14, 2020, 05:07:37 PM
The 390 rear wing is making the 1010 slow, try it on a 340 and it'll speed it up.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: wrighty on May 14, 2020, 06:17:29 PM
How is the 390 with the S1020 and S1010 ?

I have been using 1000 and 1020 with a 400 tail but just got my hands on a 1010 plus 390 and 460 tail wings.
I've spent a bit of time SUP surfing some small waves with them but looking forward to some wind to try out some different combo's with the wing.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on May 14, 2020, 07:13:00 PM
I was trying to get a 390 but all Mark had in Maui was a 340. In theory, I was just trying it out, in practice, I thought it was fine and kept it. For some reason, I haven't used it winging yet, but as soon as we have some brisk wind instead of the semi-light or strong but east wind we've been having I'm going to give it a go. I expect it will be great.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Thatspec on May 14, 2020, 07:40:22 PM
Hey Bill, we should trade stabs for a session, my 390 and your 340. Maybe next week, looks like we get back into a more predictable wind pattern.

 FL, it could be the larger board is just making it feel slower. Everything happens with a delay on the 6'11" vs the 4'5" which is 1/3 the weight. I think the 1010 is going to be a superb downwinding wing for our larger sized swells (winging). I pushed it into turns a little harder today and it will likely tighten those up even further with practice, that will be good enough for our conditions. Was afraid I'd be breaching tips but on the 90 mast so far it's been no problem. It's mine for at least the summer and I'm happy about it ;D
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on May 15, 2020, 08:19:23 AM
You definitely need to push the 1010 to turn it, my 1020 turns without thinking, the 1010 takes commitment and intention. I learned to turn it better by doing a lot of swooping around on it while mowing the river.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: liv2surf on May 16, 2020, 09:57:42 AM
I wonder if Axis will introduce a wing bigger than their 1020 like Armstrong CF2400?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on May 16, 2020, 11:12:10 AM
The difference in size between the 1020 and 2400 isn't much. From looking at profiles I think the 1020 has more projected area. The bigger the foil gets, the slower it's going to be. With the way markets are moving, I think faster profiles, more glide, maybe wing specific shapes and down winder racing will be where there attention in design is going.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on May 17, 2020, 02:06:56 PM
The 390 rear wing is making the 1010 slow, try it on a 340 and it'll speed it up.

Fl what tails are you pairing with your various front wings?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Phils on May 17, 2020, 02:51:20 PM
I wonder if Axis will introduce a wing bigger than their 1020 like Armstrong CF2400?

The 1020 has a much higher aspect ratio than the 2400.  Armstrong is the one that needs to make a wing like the 1020.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on May 17, 2020, 03:00:59 PM
For 1010 the 460 if I want more distance and stability in the pump with a little bit of turn. The 340 for super good turning. The 370 I let my buddies use when trying the 1010 so it's not too loose but still has good speed.
The 1000 I'll use the 370 or 340. The 1000 is for if I'm winging. If I drop in swell, I'll cut back and forth on the same swell, with the 390, it's more of a drop in swell and keep on it without going back and forth, sort of just ride the pocket.
All this is preference, you really need to try a few wings to see what fits your riding style. Once you feel it, you'll know instantly. Also what is good on a sup, prone, wing can all be different. The 390 also adds stability to the 1010 and helps with the aggressive turns in high winds but that's with the ultra short fuselage. So change of fuselage is a whole switch up of feeling also.
My main set up is the 1010 ultra short fuselage and 340 rear. Lets me pump quickly in the flat sections and get the turns in fast with continuous lift in the turn for catching the next wave
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on May 17, 2020, 04:32:21 PM
Good to know.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on May 18, 2020, 04:19:28 AM
Saw this wing on the Axis Facebook page. 

Maybe a 760?  They are calling it part of the surf performance line but no mention of size.  That looks really good.

760 and 860 may be a great blend for winging.

(https://scontent.fhio3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/96772545_622053108389088_4215918160924114944_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=12--liwBbCUAX8evDb2&_nc_ht=scontent.fhio3-1.fna&oh=309b3f6961983ea5b25e3f7a356b106c&oe=5EE82621)

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 18, 2020, 05:41:59 AM
Looks like Florida. Flkiter has probably ridden it. He is here today with the 1150 for me to try. He also brought me two more 390 tails. Iíve got 4 of them now. One to go with every front wing we own.

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on May 18, 2020, 10:53:03 AM
Can't really give out details on the stuff coming out yet. Soon Axis will let us but all I can say is you will not be disappointed with what's coming. I've been really happy with what I've been able to test so far. If you want to see the 860, I think it was the 860 in action, check out Larry foiler. He has an awesome vid of it.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on May 19, 2020, 12:41:46 AM
I put us on the order list for the two upcoming '60 sizes.  Those look great.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on May 23, 2020, 12:31:20 AM
I put us on the order list for the two upcoming '60 sizes.  Those look great.

You mean the 770 and 880?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on May 23, 2020, 01:43:53 AM
I asked Axis about the 880 and 770 but they responded about the upcoming 860 and 760.  They had mentioned that those are the models approved for production. 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: soepkip on May 23, 2020, 01:57:02 AM
I asked Axis about the 880 and 770 but they responded about the upcoming 860 and 760.  They had mentioned that those are the models approved for production.

Interesting, perhaps they just change the names or they came out one and two cm less wide...

I heard that these foils don't go straight, sounds interesting!
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on May 23, 2020, 02:32:53 AM
I am not sure if those are/were other prospects or what.

It must drive Axis nuts to be pumping out a steady stream of cool kit and having us out here going, "you know what they should do next?" :)  I dig all of their foils so far and I am stoked to see what they do between the 920 and the 1000.  Something like a 920 on a diet or a 1000 that started on protein shakes.  A middle ground between their high an low aspect stuff for winging.  I am not sure if that is where the 860 or an 880 comes in but I am open to try. 
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: cnski on June 14, 2020, 06:44:03 AM
OK so the cat's out of the bag about the HA series 1150 wing and it's on the website. Any thoughts from you people who have ridden it?
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on June 14, 2020, 07:25:32 AM
Which site is it on? I'll write a review up later. The 1150 has become my main foil for Florida waves and winging. The 1010 is also amazing and now with what I've learned on the 1150, I'm going to see if it transfers to the 1010.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Phils on June 14, 2020, 08:16:26 AM
Based on the numbers I have seen, the 1150 has a SA between the 1020 and 1010 but the highest AR among the 3.  Should be interesting.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on June 19, 2020, 04:06:51 AM
I have been having great sessions on the 1000 wing and the new 960 carbon mast this week.  That is one amazing combination for normal wind (18 plus) but it can still hold its own down to 15 if the wind lessens.  I have been using the 920 if it is really light air.  I think that the ultra low drag of the carbon masts and the easy break from the water of the the new 5'4 Fanatic board are allowing smaller foil (and air wing) sizes.  I sold my larger foils, tails and I think my 6.0 Swing will be next.

My goal is to be able to use the 1000 in lighter winds as well.  The 1000 is requiring a very different takeoff technique for me, particularly in lighter wind.  It is like two wings.  Pre-takeoff 1000 and post-take off 1000.  I am finding that I need to generate pretty significant board speed on the surface before applying any lifting pressure or doing any board pumping at all.  If I go to early I get a swift "no".  Basically a kick and a slap.  When I have speed I have to ease it up softly.  I am actually moving my back foot forward when accelerating on the surface.  That keeps it from lifting prematurely and potentially stalling.  Once it is airborn, it is almost the opposite. Anything goes and it stays flying really well. So quick an nimble.  It is very addictive!

I still have some experimenting to do.  I have been using the 370 and 400 tails.  My original thought was that the larger classic tails would help ease it up in low wind but that took me in the wrong direction.  I ordered a 390 tail to see what that does. 

Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: flkiter on June 19, 2020, 07:44:08 AM
Been trying to up load a pic of the stats of the 1150. So here they are.
Wing span 115 cm for the world, for Americans 45inch
Actual area 1778 cm
Projected area 1713cm
Volume 2116cm
This has become my main wing for sup and wing'ing since it's summer time. I have it on the 370 rear and ultrashort fuselage. Tune it for your pump stance, a 1/4 inch off can make or break the endless pump and glide.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on June 19, 2020, 07:52:31 AM
I have the same experience with the 101, I have to get it really galloping to get up and can't push liftoff or I get denied--Maybe a quick pop but generally nothing. Once it's up it won't come down. It's a pure expression of lift being a function of the square of velocity, and the simple fact that we go a lot faster once we're in the air than we do on the surface. "Galloping" speed is probably no more than 5 or 6 mph if that. Once we're up and flying with these sleeker wings we probably are going at least double that speed. That means we have four times the lift force on tap which we're controlling with AOA to keep the wing wet. When the wind dies a bit the biggest problem is that the wing starts getting in the way. Otherwise, we'd keep flying for a long time. Any speed slightly over our liftoff speed supplies plenty of lift.

The 101 was designed for downwinding, and if you can pump it off the surface in a bump it's going to rock as long as there's any energy at all. The super-low drag of a 1400 sq in, thin airfoil wing lets it coast a silly long way between pulses of energy.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: supnorte on June 19, 2020, 10:31:19 AM
We had a 1150 pre-production wing here in Portugal. And my friend that's an expert on downwind and wing. This was his veredict:

"A mandatory wing for downwind. Used it in light downwind (10 knots) and it suprised me a lot; super easy lift, keeps the speed while flying with no oscilations or vibrations, which is impressive for it's huge span. Flight speed is moderate but I was able to pass to the bump ahead of me. Ok manouverablility."
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: bigmtn on June 22, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
So after months of not using it, I finally took my 4m f-one out yesterday and got my first flights.  I'm about 165 lbs, and was using my buddies axis 920 wing.  I have a 900, but feel like most days I don't have enough wind to get up on it with my 4m and my lack of skills at this point.  North Shore Oahu, winds are prob in the 15-20 range or less most of the time.  So now I want to get a bigger foil wing, and can't decide what I want?  920, 1020, 910, 1010, 1150?  My gut says 1020, but I'd like to be able to use whatever I get for prone foiling on tiny days too, and I know I won't like the slowness of the 1020.  Any thoughts? Anyone been able to try the 910, from what I've heard it's an amazing wing for prone surfing/downwind.

I sold my larger foils, tails and I think my 6.0 Swing will be next.
Admin, I'm interested when you're ready to sell.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on June 23, 2020, 03:04:24 AM
My gut says 1020

Hi Big,

What did you think of the 920?  That may be a better bet for 165 lbs if you are already up and riding.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on June 26, 2020, 05:11:27 PM
Caught a very powered 2.8 session today.  Meter was reading 32-40 when I launched and it held there for an hour and then slowly dropped.  Chan has been using the Axis 820 lately with a 370 tail so I took that out.  She has been loving it and I had not tried that wing since last year.  I had pretty well written it off but I realized that our smallest tail last year was a 440 and it seemed like I should give it a try with a smaller tail.  Stoked that I did.  That is a great wing.  It took me a few minutes to adjust to it but once I felt it, I really liked it.  Not bad to get flying and really loose and playful when its is up.  Plenty quick as well.  A half hour after the wind started to fade and it was 4.2 conditions for me.  The cool thing was that I could still get this thing going, even really underpowered.  Sweet.  I wonder what the real range is on this one.  July seems like a great month to find out :)
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: PonoBill on June 26, 2020, 09:02:23 PM
My evening session last night was on the 1010 front wing, 90 CM aluminum mast, and 440 tail shimmed to 3 degrees. Amazing. I suppose at some point I'm going to find something better, but that was so very cool. I discovered I can get going very fast (no GPS, sorry) by heeling out and giving little pumps with my back foot. I overtook a few of the less talented kite foilers that way, or perhaps they just didn't see me coming.

I have lots of hang time to get a switchfoot jibe done, but haven't figured out how to keep the turn going as I switch feet. The 1010 doesn't really want to turn--I get halfway into the jibe and the thing straightens out or even starts to turn back onto a reach, even with the wing overhead and fully feathered. I'm sure I'll figure it out. Until I do, it stays up until I completely run out of speed, and then it slams down to the surface.
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Thatspec on June 26, 2020, 10:41:24 PM
Caught a very powered 2.8 session today.  Meter was reading 32-40 when I launched and it held there for an hour and then slowly dropped.

Days like today I could see using a 910 or even a 900 instead of the 1010. The first half hour was terrifying, then it slowly came down to  fun 3.6 wind. Lots of mini downwinders over at the white Salmon (the kitesurfers must hate me, I'm so in the way ;D )

I was greedy though and didn't heed the warning signs, did the entire width of the river on my knees over to Wells, then deflated and paddled to the hook. By 3 it was coming back, had I just sat on my board for 1/2 an hour...

Tomorrow looks downright dangerous :o
Title: Re: Axis Foils
Post by: Admin on June 27, 2020, 03:10:25 AM
Caught a very powered 2.8 session today.  Meter was reading 32-40 when I launched and it held there for an hour and then slowly dropped.

Days like today I could see using a 910 or even a 900 instead of the 1010. The first half hour was terrifying, then it slowly came down to  fun 3.6 wind. Lots of mini downwinders over at the white Salmon (the kitesurfers must hate me, I'm so in the way ;D )

I was greedy though and didn't heed the warning signs, did the entire width of the river on my knees over to Wells, then deflated and paddled to the hook. By 3 it was coming back, had I just sat on my board for 1/2 an hour...

I have a 900, 1000 and 820 with me so you can grab one if it is nuts like that again.  I saw you when you were cranking.  The swell in the channel was super fun.  2.8 is a hysterically small wing. The great thing about the 820 is how quickly and smoothly it turns.  It is 1443 projected but a little beefier so that may work in mellower winds as well.  I am interested to see.

It is supposed to stay very strong for a while.  We started winging and foiling exactly a year ago and we had a nuts week like this to kick off our adventure.  What a year!
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