Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: GL on August 11, 2019, 06:24:29 AM
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Hi. I am long time reader but never really had much to add. Since I managed to get hold of a Slingwing I thought my experiences so far might be of interest. I am a kite foiler and windfoiler. I am not great at either but but can do both. I weigh about 80 kg. The first go on the wing was in about 10 to 15 knots on an 11 foot single fin SUP. I could hold ground but could not make much headway upwind unless it was closer to 15 knots. I found I had to stand back a little on the board and hold the wing slightly behind me to make headway up wind.
The next session I was on 7' 10" by 30", 138 litre sup and the wind was 8 to about 12 knots. Anything above 8 knots and I could easily go upwind, although not high. No problem getting back to where I started.
My third session was in winds from above 17 knots gusting to close to 27 knots. I was on the foil board with and Slingshot Inifnity 84 foil wing and a 60 cm. mast. I was surprised how easy the wing was to manage in those strong winds. I had pumped up the trailing edge a little harder than the rest of the wing. No problem going upwind with the board on the water. After going upwind for a while on the water I attempted to pick up speed and fly the board. Shockingly the board jumped up on the foil and I was easily able to turn further upwind and keep flying. I was doing all this in a bay on a large lake so the wind was very gusty and the waves were small. It was very encouraging. I fly a few more times but did not have the energy for a long session as I had kited in the high winds first. I cannot imagine how hard it must be to have never foiled first and try this. Even with the foiling experience the first flights required a lot of focus.
The fourth session was in very gusty conditions. I am guessing 10 to low 20's. Again no problem holding ground but flying was a problem. Not sure if the wind was to low or the wing was the problem. I did not pump up the main portion enough and it was flexing a lot when I tried to get up on the foil. I did manage some flights but nothing extended this time.
I am not sure what my low end will be on this setup but right now I am guessing I will need 17 knots or above to get flying. On my third session the white caps were being blown air born at times and I still had no problem with controlling the wing. I also found on my last session that if a wing tip was dropping to towards the water if I pushed up on my front hand the wing tip would pop up and avoid hitting the water. It saved me from a lot of crashes. At least for now the 138 litre board is perfect for me and makes everything easy. I do think that I will want a larger wing next year to get foiling in less extreme winds. I am also wondering if a larger front wing on my foil would get me flying sooner with the Slingwing. I am quite pleased with the wing and am really enjoying it so far. Hopefully my experiences will be of use to those reading. If you have any questions please ask.
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Hi GL,
Welcome to the forum! I can feel your stoke. Sounds like you are doing really well! I under-pumped the wing for one session and I have not done that again. Lesson learned. At 80 kg I imagine that you will end up with a bigger wing as well. It sure makes those lighter days a lot of fun and it helps even out those lighter gusty days. I can confirm that learning to foil with a wing is challenging but it is also completely fun. Looking forward to hearing of your progress!
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Thanks Admin. I am very stoked! Cannot wait for the next windy day.
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Hi GL. I'm a complete newbie and am thinking about the Slingwing. I know the Slingwing is heavier than some of the others, and was wondering if you think it would be too heavy for a beginner? I'm not going to start off on a foil, but rather at first just use the wing on an SUP. Thanks.
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I had also read that the Slingwing was heavier. It may be but as far as I am concerned it is quite light to hold and once the wind hits it almost no effort at all until you sheet in a bit. Then of course there is some pull but you get to choose how much the wing pulls on you. It is easy to increase or decrease the pull. So I would not be concerned about the weight in my experience if that was the wing you wanted.
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Thanks GL. Much appreciated.
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QB, I too am curious... I was an excited, early-mover in kites in our area. Subsequently bought some really dangerous shit with very narrow powerbands and squirrelly controls - 3-line, 4-line, blimps, and foils. It wasn't for a few years 'till the major players had kites pretty much developed. This market is likely a lot smaller and yet there's a ton of entrants already. It seems a bit like a 'gold rush' or a Game Theory 'First Mover Advantage' play. Already, Naish is called 'lightweight for the recreational user' in a, somewhat disrespectful, REAL video, so the sorting has started.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FV-nImLI-U
And, it may not be quite as easy as presented by the young experts; even if your German is not perfect - you can see some of the learning challenges at about 24:30-on in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgjPjQYPmxM&t=1617s
Like watching the first few weeks of the Premier League, I like Duotone and Slingy at the moment. My hesitation is that I am not about to foil, so unless this is a lot more fun on a flat board or useful in the surf, like kites, then I may pass. ...tho' I don't want to!
Jim
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There was another showing its limitations toward the end... I think I would get more physical/mental exercise out of a paddle in those conditions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JOFUHAXbDg
Jim
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I finally managed to get another windy day. Very gusty but noticed a couple of things. I have minimal sucess with pumping. Maybe just poor technique. It seems either there is enough wind and it is easy to get on the foil or no chance. Once there is enough wind it is very easy to foil up. The thing that really surprised me this time was that once up on the foil on this gusty day I could keep foiling into very light winds. Winds there is no way I could get up on the foil. In that case I could lightly pump the wing and keep my speed up. I also liked that in huge gusts that it is so easy to spill power and foil under control. I am really looking forward to to a day with cleaner wind as so far all windy days have been really gusty and shifty here.
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Hi GL,
Are you turning downwind to pump when it is light?
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GL, If there was a way - see if you can determine the mph/kph at which the airfoil kicks in. I cannot imagine there's a total idiot signing up to determine the top-end.
Have you looked at other wings close up... The Slingshot appears really ruggedly, well-built compared to some others you see in videos.
'Fascinating potential. ...and, then comes winter!
Jim
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Admin, I have tried bearing slightly off the wind, a lot off the wind, using a swell to increase my speed off the wind but still have not had a lot of success. This could be partially due to the fact that it was so gusty that there just wasn't enough wind and when there was there was lots. I will know more when I've had more sessions, the windy season is coming here soon.
Wetstuff, I have not seen other wings in person so am not sure how how the construction of mine compared to the others. It certainly doesn't seem fragile to me. Sorry I have no devices to measure wind speed at takeoff. All I can say with some surety is that it is at least 16 knots and maybe bit more. All my sessions have been in gusty stormy winds so has been hard to tell. Friday looks good so I will try it again then and try to get a wind reading close by. One thing I really like while up on the foil is how stable the wing is with no flapping or fluttering. It feels very comfortable and seems to get upwind really well on foil.
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I need a bigger wing too, and I'm constantly pumping like a lunatic trying to get up in marginal conditions with a 4M Duotone. I have found a combination that works best for me in that underpowered state, and like you, I go from underpowered to just fine or even overpowered in the gusts with a little wing pumping in the lulls once I'm up on the foil. I don't know how people look so relaxed on the foil with a wing--my focus has to be 100 percent on maintaining the foil or everything goes to shit instantly.
The combination is: Turn downwind at about a 45-degree angle (straight downwind means not much wind in the wing if you have any significant speed), pump the wing and the board in sync--that is, pump down on the wing, pulling the tail of the wing down, not sheeting in, when you are unweighting your front foot in a board pump. Then shove forward and down with your front foot while you are letting the wing come back up. It helps to let the wing cycle like pumping a kite in sort of a flat figure eight. If I get it just right I gain speed on the first synced pump and get up on the second. If I don't get up on the second pump I relax a little, reset and go again. The third pump universally blows up. At least it does for me.
It does help to catch a bump while I'm pumping, but right now that has to be a lucky accident. There are enough balls in the air for me to juggle as it is.
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Thanks Bill. I will try that. It is a little different than what I was doing so maybe that's the problem. I'll let you know if it works. It would be nice to get going a bit earlier.
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Just came back from Corpus after 2 days of 20+. This was my forth day to fly and I am having a blast!
Now, what really put a smile on my face was learning to pump. What a game changer. Full Monkey soon :)
Admin, I was flying with a Van Halen tune in my head... :)
Hope Slingshot makes a larger wing in the near future.
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I just came in from a great session. The wind sensor close by said 19 knots gusting to 31. 31 was a little testing. Bill your tip regarding pumping was great. It made a big difference, thanks. I can fly constantly without breaching on the 60 cm. mast. Waves were close together and only a little over 2 feet as I was in a bay. Should have pumped up the trailing edge more but the wind jumped a lot after I hit the water. Learned something key about going upwind when it is that windy. At first I tried to muscle my way upwind and exhausted myself soon. Then the brain kicked in as a last resort and and reduced the upwind angle and flew the wing more flat over my head with reduced speed and then it was much easier to head upwind. I will jump to the 75 cm. mast next time. Thought I would be breaching more often but was not happening. So much easier to control the height than when windfoiling, especially in the gusts. I have not tried any foiling jibes yet as I was having so much fun did not want to waste time starting. I just drop the board on the water and pivot jibe. I really like the Takuma BX 7'10" board very stable and easy to pick up speed. I highly recommend it, although it is the only one I have tried.
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I found additional benefits to wing foiling yesterday. Really gusty wind, 7 knots up to about 27, and really unstable. I would get one or two pumps as a gust hit and then there would be almost no wind. Once up on the Infinity 99 foil I almost never came off the foil until I had to turn. Still cannot foil through a jibe although I am getting close. The temperature was 7C. or 45F. Windsurf foiling I was never able to wear gloves as my forearms would give out quickly. No problem with gloves and a wing. Also up on the foil I could adjust the power so quickly that I was never in danger of over foiling. The large hydrofoil wing is just slow enough that speed did not get out of control in the really difficult and gusty wind conditions. Having a board I can stand on while waiting for wind to get me up on the foil in cold conditions was also a bonus. I had a great session that would have been really difficult windsurf foiling and almost impossible kiting, at least at my skill level. I will try mitts rather than gloves next time as after an hour my fingers started to get cold. I really like the Slingwing in difficult condition as it is so stable and sheds the gusts under complete control. I will want a larger wing for next season that will go in lighter wind. Just waiting to see what the manufactures bring out in larger sizes without going really big. I would like a two wing quiver.