Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Quickbeam on August 06, 2019, 07:22:15 PM
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I’m definitely getting ready to pull the trigger on one of these. At first I will not be on a foil. My plan is to get a wing and then get used to it and the wind on a regular SUP, as I’ve not done much in wind previously. I’m hoping at some point to graduate to a foil, but that won’t be right away.
One of my concerns, is what size wing to get. I am leaning towards the Slingshot Slingwing, but from what I can see it only comes in one size, that being 4.2 meters. However, at the lake I live on, we don’t get the kind of wind conditions a lot of you get. I’d say our wind in the summer averages between 15 km. per hour and 20 km. per hour. So that would be between 9.3 miles per hour and 12.4 miles per hour. This reviewer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JOFUHAXbDg)
says you need approx. 18 miles per hour to get the Slingwing up on foil. And on the F-One website, in determining the correct size F-One wing to get, for their 4.2 meter wing they say you need wind speeds between 15 knots and 30 knots, which I believe equates to 17.2 miles per hour and 34.5 miles per hour.
Again, I don’t plan on being on a foil right away, but I hope to at some point. It looks to me, from the information I can find, that a 4.2 meter wing is going to be too small for my conditions. And if this is the case, it would rule out the Slingwing.
Does it matter that I’m a smaller guy (I’m 5’ 8” tall and weigh 150 pounds)? Given my smaller size, can I get away with a 4.2 meter wing? Or does the size of the individual not count for much?
You might also note from another thread I started that having a window is important to me, so that really narrows the options I have for different wings.
Any thoughts?
Thank you.
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I think windows are really important, so get the slingwing then. Some beginners don’t understand how to use the windows but when you get more dialed in you will use them.
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Hi Quick,
Your weight matters a lot. We had light conditions when we started yesterday (probably 8-12 with some real lulls). The forecast was for a steady build at our spot and it was very hot so we went out. I was on a 5 (165 lbs) and Chan was on a 4 (she's tiny). These wing sizes will fly at this windspeed but it is a different experience then when there is more wind. We don't get as much wind assistance for knee starts at the lower speeds so that is a different technique. Everything changes when the wing hits its range. You can feel the wing lock in. It becomes way more relaxing and way more fun. It also provides stability that you can pump against. This is also where you start feeling real directional control and where you will be able to practice the stuff you will need for foiling.
Rider weight matters a lot. At your size I would go for a 5 in those conditions. It will make everything more fun.
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Quickbeam,
I can pump onto foil with a 5m windsurf sail in 15mph wind, but at your 9-12 mph I use a 7m.
You may be disappointed.
But next season, lots of bigger sizes will be available. I’ve already seen used wings hit the web. I’d hate to see you be the next casualty of unrealistic expectations.
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In your conditions a 5m seems best for you for sure.
Dwight though, I would say you really need to try an actual Foilwing. And I just read you have one :)
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Thanks everyone. This looks like such a cool sport I really wanted to jump right in. But in taking a step back, our season really only lasts maybe another month. So I guess I'm probably better off waiting a bit and see what else comes up. So thanks again for the words of wisdom and helping me gain some perspective. The wait is going to kill me, but it's probably the wise thing to do. I'll just keep scanning these pages and hopefully pick up some extra knowledge along the way.
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Yes, weight is important. Big guys, big wings. I've carried backpacks that are heavier than Chan, so she doesn't count.
If the cost is going to change your life in some negative way, then wait. If not, jump in. I look at things like this the way Warren Miller used to put it. “If you don't do it this year, you will be one year older when you do.”
Of course, he also said: "If at first you don’t succeed, failure may be your thing.”
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Based on my limited experience with the wing and no background in Wind/Kite surf
I can say that my F-One 3.5M is more than I can handle even in 15 knots wind.
I'm 190LB with a 25 pounds 10" surf board and that wing doesn't seem to have any problem moving me. Without proper technic I was cruising today at a "blazing" speed of 4-5mph and the wind was about 10knots.
It might sound like a sick joke to long time windsurfers but from the perspective of someone new to this sport learning at 10knots wind is more than sufficient to get you started and if the 3.5m can move me I'm pretty sure the 4.2m Slingwing is going to be a handful at the learning stages.
I'm not considering foiling with the wing at this point. I'll worry about that when I have enough control and knowledge of the wing.
And BTW, a window would be helpful for sure for a beginner, even though many say it's not necessary.
Also, I've found it very helpful to have an 11 inch pivot fin to make upwind possible with a surfboard as anything less wasn't good enough for me to work the rails and make the board go the direction I wanted.
Even at this stage this is good fun to learn, and oh yeah, bring a paddle with you as you might get carried away literally ;D having fun cursing before you'll realize you need to go back and you are not good enough to do that
Just my 2 cents
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I think this is from Ozone.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2062/5873/products/wasp4_x700.png?v=1565011382)
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Based on my limited experience with the wing and no background in Wind/Kite surf
I can say that my F-One 3.5M is more than I can handle even in 15 knots wind.
I'm 190LB with a 25 pounds 10" surf board and that wing doesn't seem to have any problem moving me. Without proper technic I was cruising today at a "blazing" speed of 4-5mph and the wind was about 10knots.
It might sound like a sick joke to long time windsurfers but from the perspective of someone new to this sport learning at 10knots wind is more than sufficient to get you started and if the 3.5m can move me I'm pretty sure the 4.2m Slingwing is going to be a handful at the learning stages.
I'm not considering foiling with the wing at this point. I'll worry about that when I have enough control and knowledge of the wing.
And BTW, a window would be helpful for sure for a beginner, even though many say it's not necessary.
Also, I've found it very helpful to have an 11 inch pivot fin to make upwind possible with a surfboard as anything less wasn't good enough for me to work the rails and make the board go the direction I wanted.
Even at this stage this is good fun to learn, and oh yeah, bring a paddle with you as you might get carried away literally ;D having fun cursing before you'll realize you need to go back and you are not good enough to do that
Just my 2 cents
Thanks Burchas. Good to hear the opinion of a fellow beginner. One question. I know you said you found the Slingwing to be substantially heavier than the F-One. Putting the size of the wing aside, do you think you still could have handled the weight of the Slingwing, or would it have been too cumbersome? And I'm asking from the point of view of a beginner, because that is certainly what I will be. And like you, I'll be a beginner to both the wing and to wind sports in general.
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I'd say that when you employ good technic, the weight of the Slingwing will not be an issue but as a beginner you do a lot of muscling of the wing and so in this situations I think weight will become more of an issue getting you fatigue quicker. But that stage should not last long as you progress so I would not be too worry about it. My beginner opinion of course.
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Thanks Burchas. I think I would probably go ahead and get the Slingwing if I knew I could get one in a timely manner. Seems everyone I call is waiting for stock. Just spoke to one shop in Bellingham and they are sold out, as are Big Winds in Hood River. Looks like I may be waiting until next year no matter what. Should also mention to other beginners out there, that when I spoke to the fellow at Big Winds, I asked if he had any recommendations for me and he suggested that something he thought would be very helpful would be the "Drift Stopper" Julie posted about in another thread. I think at the very least I'll invest in one of those when they are available.
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Try windance in Hood River. They had some in stock.
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Thanks Burchas. I just got off the phone with Windance and unfortunately they are also sold out. :(
The fellow I spoke to said they went very quickly.
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These guys should have them. The web site stock is always accurate.
https://isthmussailboards.com/slingshot-slingwing-classic-v-1.html
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Another option, says in stock
https://forcekiteandwake.com/products/slingshot-slingwing
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Here is SPG's chart. Mine is simpler. Over 30 I am looking for another spot. Over 20 I am using the 4. 12 to 20 I am using the 5. Under 12 I'm lighting up.
(http://signaturefoils.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/wing-size-chart-.png)
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Here is another one, specifically for using a SUP without foil. From Gong site
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What does "nds" refer to?
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What does "nds" refer to?
Noeuds ,knots
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You are going to need some large noeuds to wingfoil a SUP in 60 knots.
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Finally some wind... Drove down to BIB for some 20 mph wind. Setup the Maliko with the 4.2, went out and the wind went to 20 - 30... Couldn't keep the foil down so I came in to change to the iwa. Wind increased to 25 - 35...beer thirty time. Hoping for lighter winds this morning. I wonder if the new tails can be adjusted for less lift.
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Reminds me of the early days of windsurfing, when I had one board and two tri-radial sails--One for every wind condition except nuking, and a nuker. Probably the only time being big and fat helped in a sport because it gave me more range. The wind would pick up 10mph and everyone would bail to the beach to rig smaller. I just hung my fat ass out a little further and carried on.
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This is the wind range from F-One
Not as detailed as the signature chart but seems realistic.
I only have one wing, a Duotone 5m , I need 12 knots to get on the foil and at 25 knots it gets dangerous , the F-one 3,5 m would be a nice second wing I wouldn't mind getting rid of the boom in rough conditions...
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For the first time I have seen the need for a 2M.
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In rough conditions at the hatchery I was using my 2m and was able to extend the boom out to flatten the wing. The boom allows me to adjust the wing tension. I need it flatter going upwind also, so with a new adjuster I have, I can go upwind with a flatter wing and then when I want to go downwind, I can “bag out” the wing to be full, kinda like a spinnaker and get more power while I’m flying. Also in high winds the boom has less flex than a strut and you don’t have to think where to place your hand. You can schooch it left and right as needed without un-gripping. Windy Wednesday if I had to let go at all it was crazy wild so was moving my hands without releasing them
https://www.instagram.com/p/B08whE3nspD/?igshid=ui2omy1nn0tj
Then when I had enough survival 2m, I let Ken use it and be used it with the boom set mid range and in the end it got so windy he extended the boom
All the way out too.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B08zCGonV1h/?igshid=enko1u00tg6c
There is a reason windsurfers use booms and it is very safe and you have more control and adjustments. They won’t ding your board that was a ridiculous thing for someone to say who has been using booms his whole life :) the reason other brands don’t have them is Ken has been riding his wings for a lot longer than other brands and had time to design them. Handles are quick and simple and cheap to manufacture. No special molded parts either.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BzgGCfInFFU/?igshid=1iz0x5n7eygr
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Does the boom feel floppy when you loosen the adjustable outhaul?
Oops, never mind, already thought of the solution to that. I’ll add one to my boom.
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The boom does not feel floppy, the boom is rigid. The wing has less tension on purpose, so is that what you mean to feel floppy? Like a boat spinnaker when it has wind in it, then it feel stable. This is maybe more advanced techniques to try when you have good wing control and want to dial in more precise control.
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Dwight you don’t need to add anything you can adjust the boom a couple clicks. I can do it in the water sitting down. The on the fly is nice but not necessary
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it's interesting that Duotone's the only brand to boom and the rest without. I guess will see how the market demands to boom or not to boom? Can Duotone do a carbon boom in the future and I'm guessing it's coming soon?
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I think we are still in the adaptation of existing products phase. Check out the Kitewing. Boom, lots of Dihedral, battens, windows. That was the most immediate predecessor to wingsurfing.
The inflatable leading edge is on all wing-surf wings but how much they have strayed from the kitewing design has varied. It is possible that there will be room for many flavors but we will certainly see improvements over time. It will be really interesting to see what new materials such as Alula bring in terms of design. That might allow much slimmer leading edges, less weight and improved stiffness. We have a workable start but this is in its infancy and there will be a lot of changes and tweaks.
(https://kitewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/3.0-1.jpg)
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I have a 5 m2 Duotone, share it with my daughter, very nice to be able to adjust like a windsurf sail.
The foil pumps very well with the boom in short position and is more controlable with a longer boom.
But still I would like to get rid of the boom for rougher conditions , and we , esp my daughter needs a smaller wing .
And a longer mast, 90cm because 65 cm is too short when the chop is big...
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I need a 5m, will trade a 3M for it in a heartbeat. And yes, longer masts are a near requirement unless you have great pitch control. I was out on my Axis foil yesterday and loving it, even though it takes a lot more speed to get my ass off the water. the 90CM mast is why. I managed to overfoil it, but it was an extreme situation. Lost my mind going downwind and ran over the top of a four-foot swell while flat out. The educational correction was immediate.