Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: mal2050 on July 16, 2019, 03:59:13 AM
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I have a unique situation with my board. Storing this board at my brothers beach house this board was placed near the roof of an uninsulated out building. So the area where there was a black strip down the middle heated up and melting the foam.
I am hoping I could get some ideas on how best to approach a repair.
What ever I do will be covered with a deck patch which I already ordered.
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It is a board clearly worth saving... I am a 'try anything' type, but I'd suggest you carry it to the best repair person in your area.
I am not sure she is still doing it, but this site is a trove of DIY info... https://boardlady.com/repairmenu.htm
I'm sure it will work out perfectly ...especially covered with a big pad.
Jim
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Great project!
I used the following pad removal and application process on a 9'4 Creek this weekend.
This project was installing a "Shark Shield" for a friend.
I have filled large voids in folded boards, by removing the crushed foam at the fold, then filling the hole as described below, with the EPS block described below
Clean the deck well....
Scrape off all pad remnants
Put Goo Gone on the adhesive that is left..... leave on for several hours.
Wipe off glue with an old heavy towel.... cuz it is good at collecting the sticky residue. Throw it away.
Clean up area with 70% Isopropyl Alcohol
Flatten and square off the area of melted foam
Get a long piece of EPS foam from a surf shop that does repairs.
Cut to fit, leaving it higher than the surface of the board
Clean hole
Tape arount the entire hole and surrounding area to keep glue off off it.
apply Gorilla glue all over the hole, sides and corners... according to directions....
Too much will be a mess.... too little will leave voids.
set foam piece into the hole
Set something heavy on the foam block to keep the expanding Gorilla glue from lifting it. Tape the weight around the board to insure it won't lift
Make sure to leave space around the entire hole... so the glue can expand out.
Allow to fully cure
cut away excess glue
sand the foam insert flush with the deck
glass the repair as usual, with slow cure Epoxy resin. Mix resin and catalyst properly!!!
Sand down, smooth to deck.
Tape off area where you will apply the new deck pad (I like the FCS Dimple Pad)
Glass as usual with epoxy resin.
Apply new deck pad
Go Surf your awesome new board :)
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...Flatten and square off the area of melted foam
Get a long piece of EPS foam from a surf shop that does repairs.
Cut to fit, leaving it higher than the surface of the board
Clean hole
Tape arount the entire hole and surrounding area to keep glue off off it.
apply Gorilla glue all over the hole, sides and corners... according to directions....
Too much will be a mess.... too little will leave voids.
set foam piece into the hole...
Good stuff Rick!
Another approach would be to cut a rectangular block of EPS just a bit bigger than the damaged area. The block can then be traced over the damaged area. Using a router, cut the damaged area out to match the replacement EPS block. While this will give you a close enough fit to glue down with epoxy, I would still opt for Gorilla Glue.
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helpful, creek---an easy fix
but pls--what are your thoughts on this shark shield?? since youre boots on the ground (in water) on Cape Cod??
https://sharkshield.com/product/freedom-surf-bundle/
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Great writeup Creek. The trickiest part is going to be routing the melted foam out to achieve a perfect rectangle with straight sides and a flat bottom. You'll need to bridge the wide gap. I'd hot glue or clamp guide rails to the board that a template can slide between. the template could be just plywood with a slot cut out for the router bit to extend through. The rails can guide the router body along the long sides of the rectangle and you can do short rails for the ends. You're going to need a very long router bit. If you haven't done board repair before I'd bring it to a pro, but it's going to have to be a truly fine pro who likes a challenge.
At the risk of sounding mean, I'd say looking at the cuts you made to expose the damage that you aren't up to fixing this. You've made the job harder already.
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As far as shark shield goes, at least it's legitimately effective, sort of, unlike the ridiculous Shark Banz (yes, I know, someone's Aunt Susie was saved by a Shark Banz, and the aliens at Site 51 are real). Something to consider though is that electrical signals stimulating the Ampulae of Lorenzini is a way that sharks locate prey. These devices attract hunting sharks and then repel them from YOU. Your satisfaction with the device may depend on your level of altruism and what you think of the other folks in the lineup. This might be an effective response to their sneers at your sweeper ways.
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Easty:
I have no opinion on the Shark Shield Freedom+
There is no real way to know if they work... so there's that.
Expensive
If you put on one board for full price, you can add additional boards for around $195??
Let's see..... I have 24 boards so that would run me around $5,000 total
The down side is.... just have it on one board
Never use your other boards
Never sell the one you have it mounted on..... that should kill board sales around here :-\
Hopefully don't feed the fishy's
I have installed 3 Shark Shields for friends, but have no interest in what is very possibly, a very expensive placebo.
I prefer to walk that wire, without the iffy security of a safety net that may, or may not, work.
A local family filmed 19 Great Whites on a day trip around here this weekend
3 beach closings
nothing to worry about.
I went out at dawn this morning in conditions that I call "Shark worthy"
Tiny gutless almost non-waves, in pure glass with good friends..... Perfect! :)
Ha ha Pono.... that is exactly the question I asked on this forum years ago..... "Does one persons safety (using the Shark Shield) actually increase the risk of those around them?"
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Hi
I am just checking at lunch right now so I can only take a quick look at your suggestions
so thanks for all the good ideas and thank you Creek for the tutorial. I will digest this tonite.
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Great project. I've got a collection of misfit boards that need major surgery like this. Fun to build skills and save something from the dumpster.
Very thorough write up from Creek. The only step I think he omitted was--spray water on the EPS block before you insert it in the void. That's what makes the Gorrilla Glue do it's magic. (right?)
Great tip on hotgluing router guides, Pono! I'll use that. I've been making way too many templates I only use once.
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ha ha... that was covered in:
"apply Gorilla glue all over the hole, sides and corners... according to directions.... ;D
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LOVE this post and subsequent comments - both repair and sharky comments!!!
Creek, your "Shark Worthy" picture is AWESOME! I Love it.....the vibe transcends the pic. You/we all do what we do for the feeling and love that Mother Ocean brings and surfing brings us.....I'm guessing not many can contest that we feel better getting out of the water than we did prior to going in.....I know I do and that's what keeps me going back over and over and over and over again....
And now I have an idea how to address a deck pad replacement/repair on my own Creek should I need.
Nice, Thanks!!!!
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After reading your comments Pono and looking back at the way I cut the glass I can say it looks bad and I should take your advice and pass this on to a proper repair person.
Now to sound like a real gremmie the foam block has to be EPS specific? I been holding on to some styrofoam blocks that came with a computer and was hoping to use that. Man it has been a long time since doing any serious repair, like before surf cords.
Thanks for all the advice on this and whether I do this repair or pass it on I learned some things here like not surf with Creek on Cape Cod.
Though do you think it is any better up in Maine.
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Shark Shield Freedom+
There is no real way to know if they work... so there's that.
I see one can get a 3 year warranty... protecting you if it doesn't... you know... work... : )
Mal - I look forward to seeing the 'after' photo...
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EPS stands for expanded polystyrene which is basically the same thing as Styrofoam, though most styrofoam used in packing is very light and has an inconsistent and large grain, which makes it hard to sand with any precision. If you can find a local EPS supplier they generally have offcuts which you can get free or cheap--you probably want to get 2 pound EPS (it's generally available as 1, 2 and 3 pound which refers to the density. Two is easy to work, 1 is a bit fluffy. You can generally get it a large construction supply companies. If you can't find white EPS then the blue or pink insulating foam you can get at any lumberyard works well. I use a lot of it. It's actually stronger than EPS and has a more consistent grain, but it's also heavier.
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I’ll break it down like this.
$1,500 board. $20 tops in 2 lb eps if you buy it new.
The other option (and consider this) is to buy another board used and give that one to the repair guy to recycle of fix and sell. Might be a decent use of your time & money unless you really want to learn to do this stuff, have good tools (a good sander and sanding pad) and access to $100 plus in materials (resin ain’t cheap.)
That’s not a little ding, that’s a serious rebuild and it on the deck where it has to support your weight. For reference, my first repair was the size of a dime and I did it wrong lol.
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Mal 2050
There are some shots of my first attempts to use foam block inserts for serious repairs.... on this page
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,29651.msg318507.html#msg318507
I had never done a major repair before, but figured, what the heck why not try?
It's mostly common sense and with all the "how-to" vids on Youtube, the info you need is readily available.
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Thanks Creek, I think your right that with tutorials and advice given that I could get the board back in the water. I am trying to carve out the time for this and if not I will hand it off to a professional.
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for me it's, surprisingly, about convenience---i just go to my garage and begin repairing---pro repair from Brooklyn is a 90 minute drive to and fro, and good pros are hard to find, can not care to thoroughly dry out a board, and get backed up---i may require a few extra sanding/glassing/epoxy coats, but i get it right in the end
now, your repair is a bit more challenging than a big ding, but id still take it on---the issue will be to end up with a repair that is clean flush smooth level with the undamaged portion of the deck---and youll want to use an extra glass layer or two for under foot reinforcement---all NBD, tho you will certainly do an extra pass or two vs a pro
since creek's over here---much as i like rsp railtape, it's an annoyance to deal with when one has a rail ding---and somehow i end up with dings, try as i might to be careful---wtf does one do with that shark shield if there's a ding nearby all dat stuff??
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here's my current repair issue--minor hit to my straby flax pro, right by the seam btwn the rail and the edge of the bottom---not sure if it leaks---sucked it and seemed ok, but last thing id want is water in this billion dollar board---so i put a puka patch on for good measure and continued to use the board---got the board nice and cool and prepared to put in sun with soapy water on the hitspot--effin puka patch was stuck tight---peeled it slowly and carefully, got it off--problem: the GD pull to remove the puka patch separated to surface skin of the board from the interior foam, so, now there a soft spot where the puka patch had been---MURPHY RULES!!!-and it's new--there was no soft spot prior to the puka patch pulloff---sux--now i have a repair---if it's still watertight, ill use the bert barger softspot method (see youtube--love the guy's act) inject epoxy into the soft spot with a syringe put a phone book with a block on top--then little glass/epoxy patches on the entry/exit syringe holes---found great industrial blunt tipped syringes at amazon for like 3 bux--if it's leaked, ill have to cut out the soft spot and let the board dry a while, before doing a std repair
oh---and i know very well to avoid melting the foam on the interior, when injecting---low temp resin research epoxy, with mucho micro balloons, so thick it'll barely squeeze thru the syringe
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While there are expert repair guys out there who are well worth the money, I encountered many who appeared to have inhaled lots of resin. Figured if they could figure out how to fix boards, I could too. Amazing how much you learn just by doing a few. The first few are expensive but over time, you end up with lots of material on hand and your skills develop.
Sure, mal, this is a big one to learn on, but worst that can happen is you screw it up. Grab the router, rout it clean and start again.
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eastie
if you find anyone that can repair carbon well within 100 miles of NYC let me know. I have a guy who can do anything with eps or ply right in my town- but he wont touch true carbon like a starby
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much as it cost like carbon!! i am not sure where the carbon is in the surface of the 2019 flax carbon models---i dug into the board minimally and found a "woody" substance, likely the "flax" or the end-grain balsa, with no obvious black layer in the very thin skin----was able to keep the wound small (say 1" x 1/4"), something creek taught me: "why hack the board apart? cut it back little as necessary, and let dry for a long time--be patient")---once dry, i stuffed the wound with plumbers' "tootsie roll" epoxy (a surf cowboy trick--works a charm for small repairs)
and then just glassed it as normal--i have used glass on innegra carbon repairs (AW LTD Innegra, that is) with no problems so far--not sure you need to sweat this NoJerz
surfed the board for the first time in months 3 days ago--repair looks good and solid
now ima have a lovers' quarrel btwn the starby and my 8'7" creek which ive been loving since the starby got dinged--starby's seething with jealousy
bring on the storms!
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but he wont touch true carbon like a starby
Some folks still think carbon is all about pre-preg and autoclaves. Then there's others who just pile on wraps of fibre to fix a bike frame. The sweet spot is somewhere in the middle where our boards are.
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but he wont touch true carbon like a starby
Some folks still think carbon is all about pre-preg and autoclaves. Then there's others who just pile on wraps of fibre to fix a bike frame. The sweet spot is somewhere in the middle where our boards are.
+1
Fiberglass cloth disappears when you lay it up, so there's no weave matching issues. If the finish is clear over CF then you have to try to line up the CF pattern, weave, weight etc. to make it match / blend. If you have lots of various types of CF laying around you can usually find a match. If you don't you're going to be hunting for a piece. Most CF boards these days are painted, so there is no matching anything and it's just as easy as any fiberglass cloth. 6 oz range CF is cheaper than 3 oz range but it's like laying up Burlap, but the 6 oz (5.8 3K) thick and needs to have a layer of glass over it to sand it properly. Actually any CF should have at least one layer of glass over it for finishing.
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Really more like 2 unless you have a very light and consistent touch. I used some old Kevlar I had kicking around the other day and laid one layer of 4oz on top to sand. Went through in a spot and wound up with a fur ball.
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Great project. I had a similar one during the spring when I fixed the void in a carbon fiber rail after a sun melt. My patching was 3 times as long but the void left behind was something that seemed to be most easily fixed with Q-Cell laden epoxy. The project was a lot of work but it was also great practice and a lesson in patience to get the rail back as close to the original as possible. I have zero experience with carbon fiber, so I just painted to match the other rail when I was done with the S-Glass Patch.
I gave the board away upon completion and the person that got it was quite happy. We used it for several sessions during their visit and the patch job held up nicely. Guess that's all that matters in the end. :D
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The whole bottom delamed on my buddy's LB. A little swirl hides a ton of imperfections in this case.