Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Admin on June 27, 2019, 04:11:17 AM
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A thread for those interested in the Air Wing but not the foil. Here is a nice vid of a guy cruising and doing some basic transitions. I actually think there is a big group of people out there that will enjoy this a lot as a fun and mellow cruise activity. The wing is really nice to fly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QArz4CZ96zo
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I'll bet a fast downwind board would get up a little more speed.
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Maybe try that on my old Pro Tech Z27 formula board.
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I'm thinking foiling is out for me but I'd like to try this. Lots of days here with wind and without surf
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My friend picked up his 4M Duo-Tone Foil Wing yesterday and we headed out on Lake Union near Seattle to test it out on a 11' SUP (Jimmy Styx w/ a small tail fin). Wind was between 3 - 10mph. It was fun and mellow, a similar sensation to light-wind windsurfing on a big board. The wing felt great in my hands and I can't imagine using a wing without a solid boom. At this point I think DuoTone has the right design. I need another session in a bit stronger and steadier wind to determine whether it's as-fun or more fun than light air windsurfing. The harder the wind blew the easier it was to hold up the wing. In light air (less than 5 mph) it got tiring to hold up the wing.
We weren't staying up wind very well yesterday (we had a chase boat following us around). That could have had to do with the light wind, the small fin on the board, or lack of experience w/ the wing. I would be curious to hear others experience with going upwind w/out a foil.
(https://i.ibb.co/FqyfNrm/IMG-0036.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PzPb3LF)
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was thinking the same thing ;)
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I am thinking of this as an alternative to paddling for downwinders. On a 14' or 16' downwind board and Gorge winds it should be more than enough to get you into swells! Going upwind wouldn't even be necessary.
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Why mess with the drag bag? How about a little electric motor. Did you ever do the coffin surfing as a kid? That’s how I want to go..... 8)
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I didn’t invent the name drag bag. Blake at Northwave had a series of deep cut sails that he called drag bags. “To get the fat asses out of the water”
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I think they were called Surfturds GL extras........ ;)
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In answer to the request for experience going upwind.
My one time playing with the wing was on a beginner windsurf board with a daggerboard, in 20+ mph winds. Once I got steering down with the 3.0 wing, which only took a couple of short runs, going upwind worked pretty well, but we lost some ground messing around to get going, and some while figuring out how to tighten up the jibe. However, even in that much wind, the board was very slow (like 3-5 mph), and unstable in the cross chop; way to unstable to use the wing on any of my smaller SUPs in that much chop. Switched to my windsurf board with a 5.3, and was instantly going 25 with no instability issues. I sailed around with some guys who are very good at foiling with the wing, and their speeds were fairly close to the windsurf rig planing at full power.
As far as light wind; I have done a fair amount of wave sailing on my SUP boards with a 5.3 sail in 5 to 12 mph winds. No problem getting back upwind after each downwind wave ride, even on an 8'7" board with small quad or thruster fins. I could be wrong, but I don't think that the wing would go upwind as well as the windsurf rig on those same boards in that same wind.
For anyone who wants to get out on a SUP in light winds without a foil, I would suggest considering a SUP with a mast track that would make a good addition to your quiver, or have a mast track installed in one of your existing SUPs, and pick up a used 5.5 rig cheap. A little more gear, but faster, better upwind, more stable, and plenty fun if you come across any surf that was too windy and choppy to have fun paddling. Of course if you add a foil to the wing, that is a whole different story, and that combo makes a lot more sense IMHO.
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I've got the old 12-6 Starboard cruiser with the retractable dagger board. I need to get one or maybe borrow one and give it a shot.
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Did you get another 12'6" or are you talking about the one i gave you. If so, that's isn't retractable, it's a Tuttle fin. You can plug any tuttle fin in there, but a more vertical shape would go upwind best.
There really isn't much need for a centerboard once you get used to the wing, any board with a long straight rail is easy to get upwind. You move back a little on the board, get the wing a bit behind your center and it steams upwind. It's actually easy to push it into a tack.
Of course that Starboard 12'6" also has a mast attachment, so you can go any way you like. the old boards were versatile. I sailed that board without a fin on the All Aluminum Tour. When Starboard first shipped it to me they didn't include a fin, but did include the tuttle daggerfin. So I took it out on a lake and it worked surprisingly well. Touchy, but it worked.
This is your board, 9 meter superfreak sail in the sit-up-and-beg for wind position, no fin, tuttle daggerfin, middle of lake fucking Michigan. I didn't think I was going to make it back to shore.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66054525_10156590677773668_7334165980911763456_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_eui2=AeEFtDKwwX429r0hSq05vBA2SVc8g5Lq6Ml1fDd4Sf3xwJzpHIeYXLDOBiRL260auEggzewYyg0rpY0ojKNoW18jqJSTV-Uvz2WGTy6waKZkYw&_nc_oc=AQkNkVfK29-r_nTcwhst73ehzpYi1QgXDG01vCHWlaIxGcUJad7_XxsVVKTbeSpWzPE&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=d7b295bd40fc7641d2d89e03f159c78f&oe=5D7DDCC4)
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Great thread, Admin. I hope we can all help each other out.
Day one was less than successful.
I have the Naish Wingsurfer, Setup is so quick and easy - nothing compared to rigging a windsurf sail.
I've been windsurfing for many, many years on everything from long boards to slalom boards. I don't have a foil (yet). I figured 'who needs centerboard'? Well, I guess I go.
I took a 11' 3" surfboard SUP with a single fin. Went to a park on Lake Washington (Seattle) with a very long side shore breach. Wind was at most 10kt, usually less. But I don't think more wind would have helped - at least not yet.
The wing is very easy to fly - just pick it up and it hovers easily is just about any position with one hand. And it's easy to move from the front handle to the strut, and up and down the strut.
This is where things didn't go as planned. When I get up on the board, wing flying, it immediately turns downwind. Of course when that happens the apparent wind goes to near zero, and wing isn't supplying much turning force. I tried kneeling and standing.
So I spent a couple of hours blowing downwind, and walking back upwind. I didn't get enough speed to rail the board, and didn't find a position for the wing to counter the wind and waves pushing the nose of the board downwind. I tired pumping the wing, but didn't find anything that worked yet.
Next time I'm going to take my Kona One board and put the daggerboard down. I would have used it today, but it's not currently at home.
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@cascade
I find starting on my knees, holding the leading edge handle, and adjusting the angle of the wing, is a good way to point at first learning
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I really can't imagine this catching on without the foil. It might be a great way to learn how to use the wing but beyond that it looks like it would be frustratingly slow and boring even with a centerboard. I'd like to try it though.
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I can see a lot of people wanting one. Particularly those who own larger SUP's. Great fun for the whole family. Super easy setup. I can see them being common at lake/beach houses and as a popular rental/activity at resorts. When we hand them to interested people on the beach they get an immediate smile. It is a pleasant feeling.
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I think in a years time you'll see these wings being sold at Costco and West Marine. Jimmy Sykes will probably offer them in a sup package. They can't be much to produce and it's something a person could give a 1-3 meter sized wing to a child to play with.
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Has anyone else been flying a wing with a plain-old-SUP board? If you haven't tried it yet, I'd strongly suggest you have a plan for getting back to your start as blowing downwind seems to be a common problem.
I've been out a several times, gaining more control, but still not able to stay upwind. I've also practiced flying the wing from a dock a few times, and I think that helps.
To get past the downwind problem, I've been paddling upwind to start. I clip the center handle of the inflated wing to the handle of my SUP board so the wing rests on the board about a foot behind my feet. It stays there just fine when paddling straight up wind.
This morning I measured the wind at 10 gusting to 16 mph, and I paddled 3/4 mile upwind to start sailing. That's about as much wind as I want paddle against. But I've found it easy to fly the wing in that wind, and you're just starting to feel some power in the wing.
When flying the wing, I've had best luck standing behind the handle, and weighting the upwind rail, like in the Naish photo below. But if I have the wing out front and sheeting the back hand down, that makes me go further off the wind. If I rotate so it feels like the wing is behind me, I can keep the board pointed higher. But that's a awkward feeling position, and the wing seems less stable there.
If anyone is having better success, let us know what is working for you. I'm particularly interested in the board and wing position.
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Has anyone else been flying a wing with a plain-old-SUP board? If you haven't tried it yet, I'd strongly suggest you have a plan for getting back to your start as blowing downwind seems to be a common problem.
I've been out a several times, gaining more control, but still not able to stay upwind. I've also practiced flying the wing from a dock a few times, and I think that helps.
To get past the downwind problem, I've been paddling upwind to start. I clip the center handle of the inflated wing to the handle of my SUP board so the wing rests on the board about a foot behind my feet. It stays there just fine when paddling straight up wind.
This morning I measured the wind at 10 gusting to 16 mph, and I paddled 3/4 mile upwind to start sailing. That's about as much wind as I want paddle against. But I've found it easy to fly the wing in that wind, and you're just starting to feel some power in the wing.
When flying the wing, I've had best luck standing behind the handle, and weighting the upwind rail, like in the Naish photo below. But if I have the wing out front and sheeting the back hand down, that makes me go further off the wind. If I rotate so it feels like the wing is behind me, I can keep the board pointed higher. But that's a awkward feeling position, and the wing seems less stable there.
If anyone is having better success, let us know what is working for you. I'm particularly interested in the board and wing position.
What I know about sailing can fit in a shot glass with room to spare, but...
I'd think I'd look for the biggest fin I could find and slide as far forward as possible and see if that helps with the up wind travel. I wonder is a straight up and down fin wouldn't be best? Or even mounting something like a gladiator fin backwards would help? I'm thinking just getteing you back foot behind the fin could help.
Didn't wind surfers at a time have a big fin near the center of the board to leverage against to go up wind?
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If you're used to sailing a windsurfer upwind, you'll have no real problem using the wing to go upwind. A centerboard would make it very easy, or a ventral fin, but if you are used to using your rail as a keel and know how to keep the center of thrust of the wing rearward, then they go upwind just fine.
CascadeSup, try this. Stand on your board in a surf stance with your feet as close to the centerline as you are comfortable with. Get the wing flying, keep the nose up, and move the wing as far behind you as you can and still keep it flying. Steer the board upwind with your hips while you fly the wing to get power and keep the center of force as far back as you can. Don't try to steer the board with the wing, steer with your hips--the wing and board should be managed separately--maneuver the wing to get the most thrust you can get while keeping it raked aft. Steer the board where you want to go with your hips and feet.
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Fishman, I had the same thought and put a 34cm True Aims Slalom Pointer fin on today. Hard to say how much difference it made as I'm doing different things with body and wing position too. When windsurfing I can point pretty high without a centerboard, but the leverage with an attached mast and sail is pretty different. And years of practice.
Bill, thanks for this, I'm taking notes. That gives me something to work on.
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Fishman, I went with an 11" Allison pivot fin on my 10' board. That seem to make difference for me to some extent but also contributed to how much I can work the rails without falling off while trying to maneuver. Probably need a smaller board.