Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Sessions => Topic started by: Night Wing on June 25, 2019, 10:19:07 AM
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I received my board last Saturday morning and took it home. On Sunday, at 6:00 am it was a blue bird sky without any clouds and it was extremely hot and muggy.
I decided to take my BP Duke for a flat water paddle on Monday morning, but alas, a split in the jet stream brought us 4 hours of a steady rain which totaled 2.5" of rain from 4:37 am till 9:50 am. Then the sun came out and it got hot real quick.
Today (Tuesday) at 6:40 am, there was no rain on the radar close to me so I took my Duke down to the largest lake in our subdivision and went for a supposedly 2 hours paddling session, but since i was enjoying my new Duke so much, the session lasted 3.5 hours.
Now for the nitty gritty details. I will be comparing my Duke to my One World in this topic thread. I'm 5'8" and 146 lbs. My Duke's specs are 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 liters. My One World's specs are 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 liters. My Duke has a rounded nose and my One World has a pulled in pointed nose.
The paddle I prefer to use is a Naish Alana 75 Vario RDS adjustable paddle. I like the small diameter shaft of this paddle with it's 75 square inch blade. Also for this comparison, both boards were using a single 9" fin.
As for weather conditions, the temperature was 73 degrees F and the wind was dead calm.
The first time I stood up on my Duke, since the Duke is 32" wide, it was easy for me to find the "sweet spot" for me. I immediately felt how comfortable my feet felt on the deckpad of the Duke. More comfortable than my feet felt on my One World's deckpad.
I use a 77" paddle length when I'm paddling my One World for flat water paddling. However, it only took me about 10 paddle strokes paddling the Duke to realize the 77" paddle length felt "short". I lengthened my paddle length to 78" and then the paddle felt perfect me when paddling the Duke.
For the comparisons below, keep in mind the Duke has 190 liters of volume and the One World has 173 liters of volume.
Speed:
The Duke, with it's round nose and being 8" shorter and 2" wider than my One World, is slower than my One World.
Stability:
Since the Duke is 8" shorter and 2" wider than my One World, the Duke is "much" more stable than my One World.
Glide:
Since the Duke is 8" shorter in length and 2" wider than my One World, my One World has the better glide.
Maneuverability:
The Duke being 8" shorter and 2" wider than my One World, the Duke was much easier to turn than my One World. With both boards traveling forward at a good clip of speed, it was much easier to turn my Duke 90 degrees to the left or right than it was to turn my One World.
Tracking:
I'm right handed. When it came to tracking, this was a real "eye opener". When I paddle my One World, in order to track a straight line with a dead calm wind, I paddle 7 strokes on the right side and 7 strokes on the left side.
There is a tree on one side of the lake. I have a range finder and from my launch point, the distance to that tree is 145 yards. With the same dead calm wind, I could paddle the Duke from my launch point to that tree 145 yards away in a straight line by only paddling on my right side and never switching over to my left side.
If the nose of the Duke started to drift to the right or left of the straight line, all I had to do was change the angle of the blade on the stroke to keep the nose of the Duke going straight. I cannot do that with my One World. I think the Duke's rounded nose has an advantage over a pulled in straight nose when it comes to paddling a straight line when flat water paddling.
And now for a picture when I got back home.
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I needed to delete this message. Not the lake report with the photo in the previous message above. This one. Can a moderator do this for me?
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This post is mostly geared to anyone on the Zone and/or any unregistered lurkers on here who is close to my weight.
Keep in mind I'm 5'8" in height and weigh 146 pounds at this moment in time. I have had both my left and right shoulder joints surgically repaired and I have a cranky lower back that acts up sometimes.
I went flat water lake paddling this morning with my new Duke. The session lasted 2.5 hours and I had three, 10 minute breaks so actual paddling time was 2 hours.
The Duke's recommended poundage is for people between 180-210 pounds. From my experience, you can forget about the recommended poundage because my Duke works very well for me on flat water at my 146 pounds. I paddle my Duke with a woman's Alana Vario 75 (blade) RDS (reduced diameter shaft) paddle set at 78" in length.
Now for the nitty gritty.
Air temperature was 73 degrees F when I got to the lake at 6:45 am. It was foggy too and the wind was dead calm.
For flat water paddling, I like to keep the outside diameter distance between both of my feet equal to the outside diameter distance between both of my left and right shoulders. In the standing area of the Duke, for added strength, it has a black colored carbon deck which the soft deck pad covers from left rail to right rail.
The best sweet spot for me when flat water paddling, I like my big toe of my left foot touching the end of the black colored carbon deck where it meets the layer of bamboo veneer (going towards the nose of the board). For my right foot, I like my big toe about 2" below the top of the black colored carbon deck where it meets the bamboo layer (going towards the nose of the board). This basically means both of my feet are above the top of the sup grip handle (going towards the nose of the board). And my shoe size is (9.5).
I can leisurely paddle along in this stance or when the need arises, I can shift into a high cadence paddle mode for power when I want to paddle fast.
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Paddling in perfectly flat calm water is a Zen like experience. You can really take in your surroundings in a peaceful way. The glide is pure as well. Sounds like the perfect board and suits your specific needs well. Enjoy it.
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Just a short review today.
Went flat water paddling on the lake again this Saturday morning. This time, with the Duke at 190 liters and me at only 146 pounds, I wanted to see how many sweet spots I could have. This time my wife went with me and she sat on a bench on dry land as I paddled by.
Wind conditions were perfect at 6:45 am. Calm wind. Great for experimentation. Little warm though. Heat index was already at 80 degrees F at that time of the morning.
I found another sweet spot I liked. Basically half of my left and right feet were above the top of the sup grip and the other half of both feet were below the top of the sup grip.
My wife said I was burying the paddle blade too far under water. So I kept shortening the length of the paddle from 78" and settled on 75". Felt real short to me, but my wife assured me I was burying the blade just below the the water line.
My wife said in the back of my mind, I was aware of my cranky lower back and this is why I liked my 78" paddle length. I'll stay with the 75" length for now and "see how my lower back likes the new length".
And I could still paddle a straight line by paddling on my right side of the board without paddling on the left side of the board with the 75" length.
Left the lake at 9:15 am.
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Robert's shapes paddle well. I also like my Sunnovas where I could bury the rail and keep it there. My 10-9 Multi-Tasker is a totally dry-hair paddle; I still get knocked off by phantoms in the ocean. My 'cranky' back has become an interest of science. I have no desire to get cut but I'd fail any cop's drunk test - 'till they got to the part; I've had, maybe, three beers in 2019. I had to add non-skid strips forward of the pad where I could put my hand to get up into basically the same sweet spot.
I particularly like a shorter paddle in the surf, it forces me into a lower posture where I can dig with a lower C/G. If too long, I seem to fumble with it and not get the drive. Paddle on!
Jim
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I definitely agree Robert designs some nice sups that track very well. At least my Duke does with it's 9" plastic center fin. I can paddle a straight line just by paddling on my right side and not switching over to my left side as long as the wind is dead calm.
I've been looking at the webcams on the upper Texas coast and we are in a period where the waves are around knee high. I'm getting ready to go down to the upper coast in the near future so today (Sunday), I went into my garage, got the two sawhorses out and placed my Duke on them with deck pad side down.
Then I uninstalled the big 9" plastic fin from the center box. I then installed 4 Gerry Lopez (Futures GL2 Sup) quad fins in the front and rear sidebites.
I plan on taking my Duke down to the lake, hopefully Monday morning early and see how it paddles with a 4 fin quad setup. Then take my board down to the upper Texas coast and see how those 4 fins perform.
I'll take a picture of all 4 fins installed, but it'll have to wait until my wife comes home this Sunday night around 8:00 pm. I do not know how to operate her iPad and I don't own a smartphone.
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Nice write-up Wingman, glad you are enjoying some long paddle sessions in Texas!
I notice that I can paddle any board straight forever.... IF I can easily lean on the "paddle" side rail, dip the rail slightly and still paddle comfortably.
Longer boards tend to get trackie when I dip a rail during a one side paddle, so they tend to be hard to paddle in a straight line because "straight" requires the board to correct slightly to the "paddle" side
Also.... anytime you start a post and decide to delete it..... just hit the "back" arrow in the top margin of your browser. It is as if you were never there! :)
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Yesterday I installed my Gerry Lopez Futures GL2 SUP 5 Fin Set in my Duke. I had to wait until Monday so my wife could take some photos with her iPad.
My plan was to demo the fins on the lake "first" before heading down to the upper Texas coast. I wanted to see how the 4 fin quad fin setup would track on the lake compared to the single 9" plastic fin.
But "Murphy's Law" came into play. At 6:45 am this morning. When went into my garage to get my Duke and paddle, I noticed my wife's Camry had a right front "flat tire" and had to be fixed at one of the automotive shops that opens at 7:00 am. So this killed my Duke paddle session this morning.
However, after returning home when it was getting hot outside, I did get to use my wife's iPad to take 6 pictures which I will now post. I'll have to post them in three messages since this site can't handle lots of big pictures in one post.
The first four pictures are of my Gerry Lopez quad fins along with WarDog's 2.25" nubster fin.
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This post will have the 5 fin setup.
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And last, but definitely not least, "Spirit4Earth" wanted to see my two Naish Alana 75 Vario RDS paddles which are adjustable from 64"-84".
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Thanks, Night Wing! That is a gorgeous board. I really like it!
I’m going to try to sell my KeNalu paddle so I can get an adjustable. The Alana will be perfect.
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Those gl2’s are sweet in a big board. If you have some controller rears laying around toss those in if you want the tail a little looser.
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FYI - Knubsters are made by FCS.
WarDogs version is called the StubNub.
Futures has the TMF (The Middle Finger).
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Those gl2’s are sweet in a big board.
When it became clear to me the Duke was going to be the choice, with the Duke's 5 fin boxes, I was leaning towards the Gerry Lopez fins. I was just lucky Blue Planet had them in stock.
And I was also lucky in finding a YouTube video for them. Although the video below is for the FCS fins, I knew the fins came in Futures too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGyqrHFTeWQ
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FYI - Knubsters are made by FCS.
WarDogs version is called the StubNub.
Futures has the TMF (The Middle Finger).
The "Nubster" fin has another name also. And that name is "guitar pick".
https://vimeo.com/31007305
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FYI - Knubsters are made by FCS.
WarDogs version is called the StubNub.
Futures has the TMF (The Middle Finger).
The "Nubster" fin has another name also. And that name is "guitar pick".
https://vimeo.com/31007305
I think Von Sol coined the word Nubster. Guitar pick was a nickname. FCS no doubt added the K for legal reasons.
That was over seven ago. A lot has changed since then.
Kelly Slater helped to make tiny center fins popular and they sold a ton of them. I doubt Kelly uses one now.
.
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Another great day for paddling. Wind was dead calm at 6:45 am. But, it wasn't cloudy. The sun was rising and even at 6:45 am, I knew it was going to get hot fast.
But, before I got to the lake, I weighed my board with all 4 Gerry Lopez fins installed. The board weighed an even 25 pounds. With WarDog's little 2.25" StubNub and the other 4 fins, the board weighed 25 pounds, 2 ounces. Pretty light in weight for a 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 liters production made board.
Today, Tuesday, was the first day I paddled my Duke with the Gerry Lopez quad fin setup on the lake. The board tracked straight. The glide was definitely shorter than with the 9" single plastic fin, but that was expected because the 4 fins produced drag.
I didn't paddle my board with 5 fins though. My next paddle on the lake will be with 5 fins.
I also did some "cheating" on paddle length. I decided to look down as I was paddling along and when the blade of my paddle was vertical with me, I still had plenty of 75 blade below the waterline.
So I began shortening the paddle length. Long story short, I was able to paddle a straight line with a 68" paddle length with a semi surf stance and using supthecreek"s method of "leaning on the paddle side rail while dipping the rail slightly".
I left the lake 8:45 am when the sun was coming over the tops of the tall pine trees which line the lake.
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Maybe I've missed this, but have you experimented with a single fin on the Duke, on flatwater?
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Maybe I've missed this, but have you experimented with a single fin on the Duke, on flatwater?
I did state I was using a 9" single fin in my very "first" post in this topic thread. In the very first post, it is in the 5th paragraph. The exact quote is:
"The paddle I prefer to use is a Naish Alana 75 Vario RDS adjustable paddle. I like the small diameter shaft of this paddle with it's 75 square inch blade. Also for this comparison, both boards were using a single 9" fin."
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Today, Wednesday, I tried out my 4 Gerry Lopez 4 fin quad fins with the 1 single 2.25" stubnub to test the tracking of my board in a straight line. Keep in mind, 2 of the GL front fins are 5.13"" and the other 2 GL rear fins are 4.75". BTW, you can read about the GL fins in the link below.
https://www.paddlesurfwarehouse.com/futures-fins-gerry-lopez-gl-5-fin-set.html
Even though a 5 setup is for sup surfing, I wanted to see how well I could paddle a straight line with them. Glide was not that good, but that was expected with 5 fins.
With my paddle length set to 68", I just couldn't paddle a straight line. I could get 10 strokes on the right side and then had to switch over to my left side. Since the 2.25" stubnub was all the way back in the long 10.5" middle fin box, I didn't want to move the fin forward.
So I decided to see if my paddling technique was to blame so I tried to "fine tune" my technique. Trying as best I could, I still could not paddle a straight line on my right side like I could with the big single 9" plastic fin in the middle fin box. I was close, but not close enough.
I decided to decrease the length of my paddle from 68" to 67". That did the trick and I could paddle a straight line with this 5 fin surfing configuration. When I go back to just using the GL 4 fin quad setup, I will see if the 67" paddle length will paddle a straight line when I had my paddle at 68" with quads.
BTW, I thought I would show you all 5 fins with the Futures GL@ SUP 5 Fin Setup. Of course, the 5.13" fin that installs in the long 10.5" middle fin box is not installed in this picture.
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My wife had some company over the weekend (Friday, Saturday, Sunday). Her sister, her sister's two daughters (my wife's nieces) and the adopted girl (now 2.5 years old) of my wife's eldest niece.
The youngest niece wanted to try her hand at flat water lake paddling. I knew she would have an easy time since she can snow ski so balance would not be a factor. She is 5'5" in height and weighs 135 pounds.
So Saturday me and the youngest niece went flat water paddling on the largest lake in our subdivision. We took my One World 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 liters sup and my newly acquired Duke 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 liters and she would paddle both. We were using my two Naish Alana 75 Vario RDS (adjustable) paddles. The "plan" was to paddle for 2 hours. We got down to the lake at 6:30 am to beat the heat and the high heat index (as the morning wore on). The air temperature at 6:30 am was 81 degrees F with a heat index of 97 degrees due to the high humidity and high dewpoint. Water temperature of the lake was 88 degrees F.
She had absolutely no trouble standing up on the first try without falling in the lake and I was expecting no trouble. Since she doesn't have any shoulder problems, she liked her adjustable length paddle set at 71" and she used this height for my One World and the Duke.
She could easily paddle both of my sups without any problems with the 75 paddle blade and with a parallel stance. When paddling a straight line, she had to paddle 6 strokes on the right side and then 6 strokes on the left side in order to paddle a straight line. Turning both boards right or left was not a problem for her since she is a fast learner using the paddle.
She liked how the deck pads on both boards were comfortable for her feet. Since she wasn't haven't any sore feet and her legs were not tired, we kept paddling. We did take some rest breaks on the water to take in some gatorade from our water bottles to keep hydrated. We also changed boards to let her decide which board she liked the most.
At 8:30 am I told her we had been paddling for 2 hours and I asked her if she wanted to keep paddling or go back to the house. She told me she was having a great time paddling and since she wasn't tired, could we keep paddling some more as long as I wasn't tired. I told her I wasn't tired so we paddled for 1 more hour.
After paddling three hours and with the heat index rising rapidly, we quit paddling and went back to the house" at 9:30 am. Once back at the house I cleaned up all the boards and paddles, I asked her what sup she preferred. She told me it was a tough call to make, but she preferred my One World over the Duke. I asked her why and she told me it was a little easier to paddle my One World with it's 30" width than the Duke's 32" width. Since she is short in height, she had to paddle with her arms out farther out from her body with my Duke than my One World so this is why she preferred my One World.
BTW, since she was having a great time on the water, she asked me if we could go paddling Sunday morning and I told her it was fine by me. So we paddled for 2 hours and she had another great time. But on Sunday morning, she padded the entire 2 hours using my One World while I paddled my Duke.
Now for an interesting quirk about me. Since this is my 8th and 9th time paddling my Duke, I like flat water paddling it with a 67" paddle length. But with my One World, I like flat water paddling it with a 68" paddle length. And with both of my eyes closed when paddling both sups, I can tell the difference if I'm paddling my Duke at 68" instead of 67" and the same is true if I'm paddling my One World at 67" instead of 68". And this is why I prefer an adjustable rate paddle over a fixed length paddle.
With both of my preferred paddle lengths for each sup, I can paddle a straight line while paddling on my right side if there is a calm (no) wind. And I don't have to "fudge" with my right foot closer to the right rail since I've been concentrating on better paddle stroke technique.
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Sounds like you're really dialing in your paddle sizing. Have two boards so you can paddle with friends and family is perfect. Now you're the favorite Uncle.....
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@ TallDude
I have a neighbor who lives three houses down from me and he stopped me one morning a few weeks while I was going to the lake to ask me about my (at that time) One World sup. He is from Florida and he knows how to surf. He wanted to know how much my One World cost and other generalities of supping. I talked with him for 5 minutues and offered him to try out my One World. He said he would think about it.
Fast forward to last Sunday and after the sup session with my youngest niece; he drove by and saw I was cleaning both boards, swung his truck into my driveway, got out of his truck and asked me more questions. I answered his questions and he noticed my new Duke sup. I again offered to let him demo my One World and also my Duke.
He told me he would "take me up on my offer". With a nice little cool front that just came through last night, this upcoming Wednesday and Thursday mornings, the low air temperature for us is going to be in the mid to upper 60's. This is quite rare since we hardly ever get a weather front come through in the month of July. The last time we had a high of 90 degrees F (or more) and then the next morning was in the upper 60's in the month of July was in the year 2002.
I'm hoping he has one of these two days off so we could go paddling together. I will go down to his house about 2 hours from now, see if he is at home and if he is, offer to take him flat water paddling on these upcoming days. I saw his 2002 year model Chevy Silverado pickup truck was is in his driveway earlier this morning when I went outside to check on the weather. Hopefully, he'll be at home.
BTW, a little about him. He is 6'0" in height and weighs 150 pounds so my One World and Duke will be a good fit for him guest board wise since he has never been on a sup.
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For the last couple of weeks, we've been under a dome of high pressure which suppresses the wind so no beach waves. Finally, last Sunday the forecast was for waves down at Surfside so I made plans for a Sunday sup surfing session.
So Sunday morning arrives and as I am loading up my new Duke on my truck's roof racks at 4:00 am to take it sup surfing, I got careless and suffered a deep cut on the inside of my right thumb below the knuckle (going towards the tip of my nail on my thumb).
With the beach water temperature at 85 degrees F, I knew if I went down to Surfside, I had a better than a 50/50 chance of contracting the flesh eating bacteria in the very warm water.
After tending to my injured thumb, I unloaded my truck, but I got an idea and decide to load my Duke, with a quad fin setup already installed, in the bed of my truck and the Duke was resting on a 4'x4'x8' single piece of polyfoam.
When my wife awoke, she lent me one her waterproof right hand glove. I put it on and then she taped the end of the glove to my right wrist with some Gorilla tape. This made a water tight seal. I then headed on down to our private lake in our subdivision.
The reason I kept the quad fin setup was a simple one. All fin boxes are made of plastic. This means to install a fin in the fin box, the fin has to be fit snug in the fin box and the plastic threads is how this is down.
I've always felt the plastic threads in the fin box was the "weak link" so to speak because I have no idea how long those plastic threads will last before they fail.
Why was I thinking of this? When I was 15 years old and learning how to prone surf, I learned on a 11' surfboard with one long 11" single fin (if my memory serves me correctly) which was glassed in permanently into the board.
Since I prefer a quad fin setup which works well on the small waves I run into on the upper Texas coast, I figured I'd use the quad fin setup for flat water paddling as well. The only things I would give up with this setup for flat water paddling would be "glide and speed" which was the case. But I would never have to worry about those fin threads failing ever again as long as I surfed on the upper Texas coast.
To make sure if I fell off my Duke, which didn't happen, I paddled in water that was between 3'-4" in depth so my right hand would never be in the water. I figured if I fell off, I would just raise my right arm to the sky and this would keep my gloved right hand out of the water.
When I got back from the lake, to make a long story short, I uninstalled the lone single 9" fin in my 11'1" One World as well and installed a quad fin (2, 5") (2, 4") setup in my One World.
I don't always follow conventional wisdom and this is another case where I haven't. BTW, my injured cut thumb is starting to heal nicely.
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I'd be interested to know just how fragile the fin threads are. I've never looked at them closely, BUT I always treat them with kid gloves because I do not want the ordeal of stripped threads.
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Looks like BP is using Futures boxes. Stripped threads do happen but it's pretty rare. Any good surf shop should be able to do the repair. I know one guy who stripped one on a JL Super Frank and the local shop fixed it good as new.
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Looks like BP is using Futures boxes. Stripped threads do happen but it's pretty rare. Any good surf shop should be able to do the repair. I know one guy who stripped one on a JL Super Frank and the local shop fixed it good as new.
Blue Planet is using Futures boxes. And I'm glad they do since I prefer a Futures fin box over an FCS fin box or the newer FCS-2 fin boxes.
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I'm loving the FCS-2 system on my Outer Reef. No tools needed. 8)