Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Downwind and Racing => Topic started by: puget sound on June 24, 2019, 06:54:12 PM
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Made our first trip to Hood River this weekend--holy smokes(!). It won't be our last. This is paradise. My wife was researching vacation homes and retirement locations before we'd left. It was my first proper downwinder.
I grew up surfing and racing outrigger canoes 25 years ago, but I've only been on a SUP for a year. For you lurkers like me, downwinding and flat-water SUP are two different beasts. Flat water is like road bike racing: economy of motion, timely application of power, maybe some drafting, etc. Technique, fitness, aerodynamics. Downwinding seems more like surfing or XC bike racing. Reading the water, creating the flow by moving on the board, responding to the many variables that nature presents. It had been decades since I've dropped in on anything resembling a wave and...I'm hooked!
Wind this weekend was around 25mph. I did a Viento run both Saturday and Sunday. Got dunked 25x the first day...mostly learning how to move around on the board. The key (on my SIC RS, at least) was learning to scoot way back as soon I caught a wave, and jump forward as soon as it petered out. Day two I was down to 8 dunks for the same run, and had several magical runs of connecting 2 or 3 bumps together. Continuous improvement.
Many thanks to PonoBill and the other locals who have written about the Gorge. I wouldn't have known about it without you.
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You can simply say it - down winding is FUN!!!!!
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We did a few circuits this afternoon on our 12’6 Bullets at the hatch. Fun and good work out. Cheers....
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The RS is a tricky board to downwind, in anything bigger than ripples. It can be quite frustrating in some conditions. I’d suggest getting yourself a Bullet, and making downwinding even more enjoyable. DW is what SUP was made for, IMO. It’s where all the skills from virtually all the SUP sub-genres come together - and then some.
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How would the Bullet be for paddling upwind or crosswind? Is it a DW-only board?
As much as I'm dreaming of the Gorge, a few trips per year is more realistic. It would be nice to have a board that could do those DW runs plus some local days (without shuttle).
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Bullets are great for paddling in any wind conditions. They are NOT a flatwater race board.
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How would the Bullet be for paddling upwind or crosswind? Is it a DW-only board?
I believe the Jimmy Lewis Rail will have better upwind/crosswind performance and will be just
as enjoyable as the Bullet Downwind.
With the board being dirt cheap due to their anniversary sale, it's not a huge financial commitment
https://jimmylewis.com/shop/rail/
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How would the Bullet be for paddling upwind or crosswind? Is it a DW-only board?
As much as I'm dreaming of the Gorge, a few trips per year is more realistic. It would be nice to have a board that could do those DW runs plus some local days (without shuttle).
Naish Maliko could be your ticket. From what I have gathered it is way more down-wind friendly than the RS, but I can attest that it can be paddled as an all-round board. Very flat long distance not been is forte.
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it depends if you want to replace one of your RS with another all-round board easier to downwind or if you simply want to add a more dedicated down-wind board and keep your 26" for touring and your 23" for flat water which sounds like the nicer option :-)
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How would the Bullet be for paddling upwind or crosswind? Is it a DW-only board?
[...] It would be nice to have a board that could do those DW runs plus some local days (without shuttle).
You're welcome to take my Bullet for a spin on Lake Union.
I bought its predecessor used. I chose it because it was basically impervious to the busyness of the cross chop, wind chop, boat wakes, etc. on Lake Union. When it came time to replace it, I went down to Big Winds, and for the first time took one out on the river... and was amazed how it caught bumps.
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it depends if you want to replace one of your RS with another all-round board easier to downwind or if you simply want to add a more dedicated down-wind board and keep your 26" for touring and your 23" for flat water which sounds like the nicer option :-)
I like that notion. If you'll go with the Naish Maliko, you'll end up with a board that really does it all.
It is by far my favorite board for the Gorge, but very capable in most conditions. Really good solution for
a one board quiver.
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it depends if you want to replace one of your RS with another all-round board easier to downwind or if you simply want to add a more dedicated down-wind board and keep your 26" for touring and your 23" for flat water which sounds like the nicer option :-)
I like that notion. If you'll go with the Naish Maliko, you'll end up with a board that really does it all.
It is by far my favorite board for the Gorge, but very capable in most conditions. Really good solution for
a one board quiver.
I was as impressed with your performance on the Maliko as you were, so I tried it. Meh. For me it was just OK. I think it strongly benefits lighter riders--you were wicked fast on it. For Clydesdales it's just another board.
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The Mehliko?
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pdx haha!
cant beat the px on the JL!
in case $$ matter
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The Mehliko?
You made me check my spelling. Funny.
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My garage and wallet like the idea of a two-board quiver. I'm thinking the RSx23 for anything calm to moderate, and a DW-friendly board for everything bigger, including the real DW runs. I haven't had the RSx23 for long, but I have a blast on it and now wonder if I'm heavy enough to do the RSx26 justice.
Bullet, Maliko, JL Rail all sound fun.
Wow...the JL Rail new is cheaper than the used Bullet on craigslist. Anyone have experience on both boards? Or thoughts on JL width for a 175lb guy? It comes in 26.5" or 28".
[Dusk Patrol]...thank you! I might take you up on that. I'll PM later this week.
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^ Yep, sounds good.
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My garage and wallet like the idea of a two-board quiver. I'm thinking the RSx23 for anything calm to moderate, and a DW-friendly board for everything bigger, including the real DW runs. I haven't had the RSx23 for long, but I have a blast on it and now wonder if I'm heavy enough to do the RSx26 justice.
Bullet, Maliko, JL Rail all sound fun.
Wow...the JL Rail new is cheaper than the used Bullet on craigslist. Anyone have experience on both boards? Or thoughts on JL width for a 175lb guy? It comes in 26.5" or 28".
[Dusk Patrol]...thank you! I might take you up on that. I'll PM later this week.
I am 6' and 170 lbs.
I briefly tried a Rail 26.5 in Howe Sound on light~ish and messy chop downwind conditions. It did not pick-up bumps as easily as I was expecting and I was thinking that I would be better on the 28 based on the shape (pointy nose/rocker/pintail). Granted I am not an expert down winder but no slouch either and I downwind successfully the boards I have. My disclaimer is that I have gotten used to downwind different type of nose on a board and I am addicted to it (Maliko, Vapor, Javelin,...) and I have sold some time ago my Riviera Downwind board.
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Wow...the JL Rail new is cheaper than the used Bullet on craigslist. Anyone have experience on both boards? Or thoughts on JL width for a 175lb guy? It comes in 26.5" or 28".
If we're talking Gorge only use I would choose the Maliko first, JL second and Bullet last.
I agree with Luc about the JL but I would attribute it to timing. The Rail forced me to work
on my timing where Maliko or other race boards I could muscle my self on a bump.
The reword with the Rail is superior surfing and the ability to handle big conditions much easier.
The Bullet V2 would be the faster choice imo, but I just don't like the feel of the board and I'm not to
concerned about speed when downwinding, I always treat it as good surf session.
Obviously it's all personal so YMMV.
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Yes. Downwinding is downwind surfing. And just as no-one would claim that a particular surfboard is going to be perfect for all possible wave conditions, so too is it the case that no one downwind SUP will be perfect for all downwind conditions. Quite often, a board or design that is perfect for one particular day at one particular location, can really suck on another day, even sometimes at the same location.
And then there are the personal preferences for the feel of the board. Some people prioritise speed at all costs. Some prefer control and/or stability. Some prefer to use footwork and surf a bump, others want to plough ahead while almost rooted to one spot. Some like to “pilot” a board, while others want to “surf” it.
The Rail is relatively low rocker, yet is a surf shape outline, and has quite specific rail shapes. I suspect that for many people, gunny surf outline boards work best for steep bumps and when they have a lot of (nose) rocker. So a low rocker surf shape might have a fairly narrow hand of optimal useability. Just as you’d have to be suicidal unless you are an elite paddler to try some of the DW runs near me on a typical dugout like the Ace: steep and rippy head-high bumps with occasional almost vertical drops, plus winds well over 30 knots make flat rocker, big-nose, sort-railed dug-out boards a real challenge for most. But one mile down the coast on another (smaller) day it might be perfect.
And on this note, no-one is mentioning the Bayonet. Is it simply too specific a design? I have found that I much mostly prefer low volume thin boards for downwinding, so I am suspicious of the thick rails and high standing position especially with the relatively narrow width. It looks like it would feel like downwinding a log??? Is this design best as an unlimited, for people whose conditions aren’t too steep, and who like to use a rudder?
Incidentally, Hypr Nalu Hawaii are rumoured to be bringing out a 14x26 version of their gun SUP soon. That might well be an extremely interesting proposition for those of you who like a low volume, “surfy” downwind board like I do. There might even be a 16ft version... :) :) :)
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I am pretty keen to see some feedback from people after they ride the ONE EVO 2.0 in the Gorge as i feel this board will suit the river really well. Bigwinds has a few of these so hopefully as the session over there really heats up some crew might get the chance to really test them out in some good bumps.
Jacko
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I am pretty keen to see some feedback from people after they ride the ONE EVO 2.0 in the Gorge as i feel this board will suit the river really well. Bigwinds has a few of these so hopefully as the session over there really heats up some crew might get the chance to really test them out in some good bumps.
Jacko
^ 8) I'll be sure to put some runs on this board Jacko. I'll be there very soon and hopefully
no one will hold them hostage like I tend to do with good boards when I'm there.
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I read up on the Jimmy Lewis Rail--sounds just right for me--and bought a 28" this morning at their killer sale price. A few hours later received a refund and a note: out of stock in both constructions, both colors, for at least 4 months. The website is updated now. Bummer.
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I read up on the Jimmy Lewis Rail--sounds just right for me--and bought a 28" this morning at their killer sale price. A few hours later received a refund and a note: out of stock in both constructions, both colors, for at least 4 months. The website is updated now. Bummer.
That is a let-down....
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That's too bad. And at this price it was really a steal.
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I just finished tarting up my ancient hollow Chinese autoclaved F16 to trade it to Joel Yang for his OneWheel. I sanded all the scabby carbon patches I put on it over the past eight years and then misted it with rattlecan white. One more light sanding and it's good to go. It's so light and looking so pretty that I'm loathe to give it up now, but he'll get more use out of it. And if I fall on the deck with my knees it will probably crack from nose to tail. Joel doesn't like rudders, so I took off the A.S.S. system and locked the rudder. I have to admit it looks more purposeful that way, and of course it's even lighter. I rarely use my rudder in the gorge, it's more like a security blanket for me, and a way to stay in a bump longer by keeping the board on the edge of rounding up. It should be great in the short period gorge bumps without the rudder. The Chinese F16 has an Alladin's slipper nose that was a mistake--the plug Mark sent them got damaged and the nose got pushed up. Makes it perfect for Gorge waves. If ever there was a place-optimized board, this is it.
These boards must be as rare as hen's teeth now. The boards were made in a Chinese OC1 factory and were vacuum bagged carbon done in an autoclave. Light and stiff, but brittle. I used it for hundreds of Viento runs and then retired it because it looked like a checkerboard with all the carbon I slapped on to it. Easy to damage. Joel is a lot more careful than I am (low bar) and it will be a heck of a good board for him.
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I still have my hollow F16 that I bought from Rod back in the day. Still my favorite downwind board.
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This one is from the same batch. It's a winner for sure.
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Well, fancy that: all the criticism I have got over many years for saying that UL boards could be more fun with fixed fins in short period stuff, and now hey presto, everyone is at it.. hmm...
Now suggest to the guy who is buying your board to fit a 2+1 fin system. If he does, he’ll love you for it.
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It's not really reasonable to fit fin boxes, at least it isn't an effort I'd undertake. It's a hollow board. I locked the spitfire shaped rudder.