Standup Zone Forum

General Category => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Rastaman3030 on June 19, 2019, 04:31:49 PM

Title: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Rastaman3030 on June 19, 2019, 04:31:49 PM
It looks like a lot of shops in the NW and national shops now have demos of Wind Wings from the major manufacturers - DuoTone, Naish, Slingshot. Who out there has had an opportunity to test or ride any of the wings? What was your experience and thoughts on each?

Do the floppy handles really detract from controllability in your experience? Does the Naish really have a loop on both the leading and trailing edge to hook up a paddle to use as a rigid boom? This seems like a great feature that is a nice compromise for travel. Does the Slingshot wing have that capability?

I have a deposit down on a 5M DuoTone Wing, but a shop I just talked to was saying their favorite is the Slingshot due to the rigidity from the inflated trailing edge. It looks like the next 4 weeks is when the first batches from big 3 brands will be reaching shops across the nation.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: supfoo on June 20, 2019, 06:17:26 PM
I think its going to be a while till there are some reviews.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: PonoBill on June 20, 2019, 06:28:45 PM
I like the looks of the slingshot prototype at Big Winds. It would be easy to add a paddle as boom to any of the inflated strut wings, and probably even to the Duotone, now that I sit here thinking about it. I see a nice easy path.

I would have had a review of the 3M Duotone this evening, but I got too excited and dropped my foil mast onto the bottom of Mr. Fugly while I was rigging it at Rowena--chopped a GoFoil wing mount plug-sized hole right through the glass. Damn.

All fixed and I'll be in the water tomorrow. Admin has three sizes of SPG to try. Maybe I can talk Big Winds out of the Slingshot proto.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Dwight (DW) on June 21, 2019, 03:55:15 AM
........ I got too excited and dropped my foil mast onto the bottom of Mr. Fugly while I was rigging it at Rowena--chopped a GoFoil wing mount plug-sized hole right through the glass. Damn.


Sorry to hear that. Thanks for admitting it. It helps me a lot. There are days when I think about going lighter on my bottom lam to save weight, glass only, like with regular boards. This keeps me on the path I’ve taken the past two years. Innegra bottoms to prevent any accidents while mounting 10 lb aluminum hammers.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Julie_Scheyer on June 21, 2019, 12:10:22 PM
I will add my input on the “adding a paddle in case”. 

First, the slingshot wing is 2lbs heavier(1kilo) than the 4m duotone.  So now, you want to add the weight of a paddle, for “just in case”.   Also think about the paddle blade wind drag and how it handles gusts as you are riding. 

I have no problem prone paddling out of Maliko from the boat ramp, on a 68L board to the wind line, that barely floats me, and I am a middle aged woman with no weight training.  The wing sits on your back.

Also, if the wind dies, it’s really easy to sit or kneel on your board, and hold the wing (like a spinnaker) and steer in.  I have done that into the harbor in fact when the wind lows dropped but I decided to go to my car anyways.  Unlike having to self rescue kite boarding.  Maybe Kiters and windsurfer need a paddle.  Hehe

I tried the Naish with a paddle attached, and it has lateral movement if you sheet in, and especially pumping, and then it also has feedback delay because of the webbing stretch.  Very inefficient! 

Especially a place like the gorge does not need a safety paddle.  Hitch hike. Even a channel crossing doesn’t because you have a rescue boat.   Honestly it would be impossible to not sense the wind is dropping on a Maliko run or most places and to head toward shore, and hitch hike. 

Nowadays I'm also riding boards so small that I would not be able to use a paddle if I had one. I can't even kneel on some boards and paddle them. If the wind drops, I'm pretty good at flying long enough to get to shore. If the wind goes dead without warning, I'm pretty much in the same fix as any windsurfer or kiter who's also out there.   

I would worry about the leashes breaking!  Need double leashes more than a paddle.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Beasho on June 22, 2019, 05:41:42 AM
I would worry about the leashes breaking!  Need double leashes more than a paddle.

Worry about leash breaking between board or with wing? (I assume board)

PS: I do love the real world feedback vs. the unending fear-narratives being written by those of us with little or no experience. 

Just like foiling.  Aren't we all going to end up looking like this poor sod?
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Admin on June 22, 2019, 06:02:03 AM
Here is a first day rider's report (not a review, that would be silly at this point).

Yesterday, we tried both our SPG wings and Bill's Duotone wing.  Both are very cool looking products.  But, they could not be more different.  I should underline that.  There, done.  As a beginner, going back and forth was disorienting.  They sit in the water differently, they react to a leash pull diferently.  They fly differently from the leading edge handle.  The handwork to get them into lift position is different.  The hand position on the "boom" is different.    The single boom vs twin strut (dual boom) is very different.  I started on my SPG and when I swapped with Bill for his Duotone (both 3 meters) I basically went back to the beginning.   But, it did become more familiar after a while.  I think switching back and forth as a beginner won't be helpful.  Later down the line that will likely be no problem at all.  One thing is for sure. With your hands in the correct position, both wings will fly themselves and require almost nothing from your arms, even in strong, stupid wind.  My body is beat to shit today but my arms are fine. 
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: PonoBill on June 22, 2019, 08:25:03 AM
Honestly it would be impossible to not sense the wind is dropping on a Maliko run or most places and to head toward shore, and hitch hike.

My Maliko runs are all in winter, and there's a lot of times and places it's not wonderful to head to shore. I've had to come over the reef at Camp One and Kanaha a few times in spots I didn't choose and I've been tagged at Spartan's--didn't enjoy the experience. Doing it with a foilboard and a wing sounds like a disaster. I hear summer Malikos are a lot more civilized, without the ground swell, but I've never been there to do one.

Breaking down on a Viento run is not that big a deal, but there's a lot of other places in the Gorge where it's a bit more consequential. Hell's gate, the Wall, anywhere past Arlington, etc.. Might be nice to have options. And at my size and balance abilities I'm not likely to have a foilboard much smaller than little Fugly--6'11 X 30. I can paddle that.

Also, you've never seen me in a wetsuit. I'd be thumbing for a while. Not many people want an Orca in their back seat.

I've just talked myself back into doing this.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: PonoBill on June 22, 2019, 08:34:13 AM
........ I got too excited and dropped my foil mast onto the bottom of Mr. Fugly while I was rigging it at Rowena--chopped a GoFoil wing mount plug-sized hole right through the glass. Damn.


Sorry to hear that. Thanks for admitting it. It helps me a lot. There are days when I think about going lighter on my bottom lam to save weight, glass only, like with regular boards. This keeps me on the path I’ve taken the past two years. Innegra bottoms to prevent any accidents while mounting 10 lb aluminum hammers.

Glad to be of service...   ...not.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Julie_Scheyer on June 22, 2019, 11:31:29 AM
I would worry about the leashes breaking!  Need double leashes more than a paddle.

Worry about leash breaking between board or with wing? (I assume board)

PS: I do love the real world feedback vs. the unending fear-narratives being written by those of us with little or no experience. 

Just like foiling.  Aren't we all going to end up looking like this poor sod?
A leash breaking and losing your board is the biggest worry for sure!  Losing the hand held wing is second, and then you just lost your “just in case paddle” too :)

I always hang onto my wing when I fall and protect my face with the leading edge. I also feel holding onto it when I fall it keeps me farther away from the foil.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Julie_Scheyer on June 22, 2019, 11:43:09 AM
Honestly it would be impossible to not sense the wind is dropping on a Maliko run or most places and to head toward shore, and hitch hike.

My Maliko runs are all in winter, and there's a lot of times and places it's not wonderful to head to shore. I've had to come over the reef at Camp One and Kanaha a few times in spots I didn't choose and I've been tagged at Spartan's--didn't enjoy the experience. Doing it with a foilboard and a wing sounds like a disaster. I hear summer Malikos are a lot more civilized, without the ground swell, but I've never been there to do one.

Breaking down on a Viento run is not that big a deal, but there's a lot of other places in the Gorge where it's a bit more consequential. Hell's gate, the Wall, anywhere past Arlington, etc.. Might be nice to have options. And at my size and balance abilities I'm not likely to have a foilboard much smaller than little Fugly--6'11 X 30. I can paddle that.

Also, you've never seen me in a wetsuit. I'd be thumbing for a while. Not many people want an Orca in their back seat.

I've just talked myself back into doing this.

Sitting or kneeling on a board you easily can hold the wing to go where you need if the wind dies.  With the boom you can put it on the front of the board and use it like a spinnaker.  I think I need a photo.  My example of the hitchhiking is you aren’t seriously going to die, just inconvenienced.  This is so rare too.  The only reason it’s hard at the Maliko gulch is the wind is swirling in there.   
https://www.instagram.com/p/BzBhB7ynRb5/?igshid=5q49ufpvbdl
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: surfcowboy on June 22, 2019, 09:07:48 PM
Admin, thanks for that. One unaffiliated person, with no agenda, using two products and commenting on them honestly is way more valuable than all of the defensive marketing hype that reps and ambassadors put out. Truly, thank you.

Looking at this thread, I appreciate that people have strong opinions about technique and the various situations one may find oneself in. But I try to err to the side of hearing everyone out and letting people have their own ideas about how they will rescue themselves. I, at 52 and wafer thin, will have different concerns than Pono. (Mainly that I’ll die of hypothermia while he’s relaxed and balmy paddling safely home lol) but that aside, thanks to all who are posting here for those of us trying to decide if this is something that the non-wind sports folks want to even bother with, let alone what brand we might buy.

I’m also stoked to hear you put a stake in the heart of the idea that these things wear out your arms. It killed me to watch videos of people holding these wings with one hand and then have folks who’ve never seen one speculate about how hard it must be to hold. Glad we can move on from that into real ride reports.

I also love (LOVE) that this forum of largely cranky old folks have insanely sensitive BS meters. Post glowing reviews of one thing while running down others too strongly and we all tune out or worse start to ridicule the brand you’re promoting. (With glee I might add.)

Pono, I think having a paddle is a great idea. Especially for older riders whose shoulders may not work as well as they used to. Julie, glad you don’t need one as well. Different strokes, right? Literally.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: PonoBill on June 22, 2019, 09:49:46 PM
Pono, I think having a paddle is a great idea. Especially for older riders whose shoulders may not work as well as they used to. Julie, glad you don’t need one as well. Different strokes, right? Literally.

There's one HUGE difference between Julie and I. I've got about six sessions with a wing foil. But all last winter, every time I did a downwinder on Maui I'd see this lady running way out to the horizon with a wingfoil and then ripping back. I'm still in the stage of wobbling around and having theories about this stuff, while I'm pretty sure she's well up in the top ten most experienced wingfoilers on the planet. So assume from me you're getting the usual bullshit off the top of my head, while from her you're getting hard won experience.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Admin on June 23, 2019, 04:01:21 AM
I’m also stoked to hear you put a stake in the heart of the idea that these things wear out your arms. It killed me to watch videos of people holding these wings with one hand and then have folks who’ve never seen one speculate about how hard it must be to hold. Glad we can move on from that into real ride reports.

We should be considered (Myself and Chan) rank beginners (two days, now) with no foiling experience.  We have both windsurfed for a long time, surfed, SUP'ed, snowboarded, skied and skated a lot.  We have kited just enough to learn the basics (launch, back, forth, ugly transitions, land), but I would not call us kiters.  I think that a lot of those who will buy the first wave of production wings (which are just starting to show up) will have a similar group of related sports experiences.    We are basically trying to learn two new skills at once.  Foiling and Winging.  Robby Naish suggested against that (or maybe he said it would be the hard way to learn to foil) but the air wing is really our only current interest in foiling, so here we go.  I think that a lot of next entries will also be with us on that. 

So, for holding the wings.  When you have them in the right position, they lift your arms.  This is very comfortable and strain free.  It is a very cool and satisfying feeling in itself.  The wing will tell you (decisively) when you have moved from that correct position (range).  You are going to do that a lot.  Not because you don't know, but because you will be focused on a lot different things.  If you are on shore and hold the leading edge handle of one of the wings (either of these two brands)  in neutral position with the leading edge perpendicular to the wind it will fly itself (provided that there is wind).  Move both hands from the leading edge handle to the "boom" and you will quickly find a hand position (where is important) where the wing flies itself comfortably.   Now change the angle of the leading edge to the wind.  If you move the leading edge too far downwind the front wingtip will drop.  Too far and it is on the beach (soon to be water).  Too far upwind and the back wingtip will angle off over your head and behind you back.   This is going to be the situation on water before you have forward momentum.  A lot of our first wipeouts have been from this.  If you try to fight the wing being out of position, that would tire your arms and it would never work.

I am convinced now that water people are going to love this sport.  It is really fun.  If you have no foiling experience, prepare to be humbled.  You are going to do some goofy shit.

Here are some kiters giving it a try.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ExWrbZs5Q
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: alap on June 23, 2019, 11:52:45 AM
Admin, Julie, Pono, the experienced people!

I am not interested in foiling whatsoever. So in many ways like  Admin, I did windsurfing, SUPing, even kiteskied on mountain lakes in winter untill it started to interfere with my skiing. I do now a lot of light air windsurfing on local lake. If the wind has some promise I go out on Formula + 8.5 Sailworks. If it is lighter I take big floaty board and small sail 4.0 or 5.0 or 6.0 and do some pivot jybes, helis, yahoos, backwinding - the entry level free style.

I am not interested in foiling whatsoever. I am interested in light days (and light days on the lake mean that it may drop to zero in 2 minutes) on the local lakes to go on big floaty board to go out with a paddle attached to the boom and goof around  and not to be blown downwind. Like I do now for entry level free ride wsrfng. Basically to substitute this light air wsrfng with this light air wing schlogging.

I have four boards that I can think about, but none of those has a dagger (Julie mentioned in other thread that Alan teaches  on old wsrfrs with a dagger to go upwind) - Formula (100 cm wide), free race Fanatic Ray 82 cm wide 145 litres, Naish Mana 9' long 30" wide, and ULI 9'3" and 32" wide.

I think I should be able to stand up on such wide floaty board easily. (Like the guys goofing around in the last Admin's vid are using the small board without foil and based on the kiters in background in a strong enough wind to go wsrfng...)

(Again, I prolly can buy an old wsrfr with a dagger if that is a requirement, but it will have a dagger but it will be probably very narrow, so it will be more difficult to stand up and paddle back when wind dies, so Id rather not...)

The Q is: is it possible to go upwind on those wide boards without a dagger (or at least not to go downwind, and again having paddle in light air even this is not a total disaster), and how? burrying the windward rail?
And because it is just shlogging it shouldn't be stressfull on my arms. Like right now light air wsrfng I shlog without harness under the power of my 5 m sail, and it is not tiring at all.

what do you think guys?
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Julie_Scheyer on June 23, 2019, 12:57:13 PM
@alap Why don’t you want to foil?  If you can do all the other things, you can definitely foil.  The foiling is the fun!  I wasn’t able to use a paddle, because it’s too physically hard and injures me.  The wing is just there to let me fly on the foil.

I would rather kite or windsurf, or mtn bike than slog around with a wing and a SUP board. Maybe it’s a good way to learn how to use the wing, but definitely not my idea of fun.

Alan uses the daggerboard in order to help his students stay upwind.  I think you need the daggerboard or hydrofoil to stay upwind.

Wings have been around for years, and are only now fun because of the hydrofoil.  Ken Winner had been downwind foil paddling with Mark Rhapahost and Alan Cadiz and injured his shoulder paddling.  He wanted to keep going with them, and made some wings for himself.  He spent at least a year getting them designed to give him the power he needed(to be faster than his paddling buddies :)  the wings started floppy and with handles, and quickly made booms.  Alan made some metal front ends, then they wanted windows to avoid turtles and friends, then tighter leach tension, then battens.  He said it’s been at least 30 prototypes.  All because he wanted to hydrofoil downwind without paddle injuries.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: steamroller on June 23, 2019, 02:00:30 PM
@alap Why don’t you want to foil?  .


not a whole lot of waves where he is and lots of water rules...

aloha alap

UliUliUli!
 :)
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Lazz on June 23, 2019, 02:21:07 PM
Guys, do not understand why you do not try the Wing at least on a 12´6´´old raceboard with boxy rails. I think the easy way is to learn  proper sailing first
(starting, manoevers, upwind, downwind, pumping) before  kill yourself with a foil board.
In any case, my way of learning will be so, when the damned wings are finally arrived.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: alap on June 23, 2019, 03:00:52 PM
aloha steamroller!  love ULI....

Julie, I am not saying I can't learn, I just don't want to. Too many reasons... The absence of waves and downwinders in Calgary Alberta is one of those as steamroller mentioned. Couple others, like my body is not made from rubber anymore and the things that used to heal by itself in a matter of hours tend to stay forever... plus it is not even the fear of injury but rather a fear of cutting myself in the water (hint: I had some big surgery when they replaced original body parts with an artificial one... it doesn't like bacteria in the bloodstream). Plus do not want to "excite" my wife with a foil idea. And I totally agree if it is windy I rather wndsrf in harness and in straps, but not shlog. I thing the concept of wind in Maui is different than inland though.

Either way I don't plan learning to foil. Mtn bike involves a lot of sweating, no thank you. never was attracted to :)

But thank you for the info about the dagger. I of course can buy an old longboard with a dagger for 100 bucks... but at the moment looks like I am waiting to see where all this evolves. Reading this forum with a lot of interest and curiosity.

But Julie it is very interesting that you learned foiling and winging simultaneously. Just as an idea you should post your videos on youtube... not instagram...
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: PonoBill on June 23, 2019, 04:42:33 PM
Admin, Julie, Pono, the experienced people!

The Q is: is it possible to go upwind on those wide boards without a dagger (or at least not to go downwind, and again having paddle in light air even this is not a total disaster), and how? burrying the windward rail?
And because it is just shlogging it shouldn't be stressfull on my arms. Like right now light air wsrfng I shlog without harness under the power of my 5 m sail, and it is not tiring at all.

what do you think guys?

Absolutely. In fact, while I was taking lessons from Allen on his huge centerboard windsurfer I was going upwind very handily. When I came in after a few laps in and out we realized I had kicked the centerboard up when I first took off, I didn't notice the difference, went upwind just as well.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: alap on June 23, 2019, 04:53:02 PM
Pono, thank you  !
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Admin on June 24, 2019, 08:41:41 AM
Guys, do not understand why you do not try the Wing at least on a 12´6´´old raceboard with boxy rails. I think the easy way is to learn  proper sailing first
(starting, manoevers, upwind, downwind, pumping) before  kill yourself with a foil board.
In any case, my way of learning will be so, when the damned wings are finally arrived.

That should be a nice way to learn.  I still think that you will have almost the whole learning curve ahead of you when you switch to a foilboard, if that is your goal. 
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Lazz on June 24, 2019, 09:15:43 AM
Guys, do not understand why you do not try the Wing at least on a 12´6´´old raceboard with boxy rails. I think the easy way is to learn  proper sailing first
(starting, manoevers, upwind, downwind, pumping) before  kill yourself with a foil board.
In any case, my way of learning will be so, when the damned wings are finally arrived.

That should be a nice way to learn.  I still think that you will have almost the whole learning curve ahead of you when you switch to a foilboard, if that is your goal.

Admin, no doubt about the learning curves, but to learn a new sport with two different components with different movements and unpredictable forces in once makes the learning success much more difficult in my opinion.
Including unnecessarily danger for you self  and for the equipment.
So if we learn to use and control the Wing to gain confidence, the lifting  and riding experience on the Foilboard becomes a piece of cake I guess.
If you guys love to learn it on the hard way becouse your mind is younger than your body ( me too with 64) is admirable, possibly gives you when succeed  lot more satisfaction. Please keep going, we'll push our thumbs. ;D

PS: Of course is my goal  Foiling, but  through smallest effort with  greatest success
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Admin on June 24, 2019, 09:38:05 AM
Admin, no doubt about the learning curves, but to learn a new sport with two different things with different movements and unpredictable forces in once makes the learning success much more difficult in my opinion.
Including unnecessarily danger for you self  and for the equipment.
So if we learn to use and control the Wing with confidence, the lifting experience and riding on the Foilboard becomes a piece of cake I guess.
If you guys love to learn it on the hard way becouse your mind is younger than your body ( me too with 64) is admirable, possibly gives you when succeed  lot more satisfaction. Please keep going, we'll push our thumbs. ;D

I think that you will find that the wing on your knees, even on a small foilboard,  is comfortable and relatively easy (reaching, transitioning, returning and light pointing).  I think you will learn that and what can be gained from a large sup in a day or two.   On the foilboard, hoisting the wing with significant wind and chop is a fumbly experience at first and you lose a lot of ground.  What you know how to do with the wing on your knees or on a big stable board may not happen as smoothly when you are balancing and controlling direction on the smaller gear.  The board will want to turn downwind and you have to correct for that.  That is also one of the things that can cause problems with the wingtip getting snagged on the water if you don't adjust.   Getting up from one knee can help keep you upwind, but that is a little dicey sometimes on a smaller board and may lead to some swimming.  Because you won't know how to foil yet, you are going to end up downwind.  I am not sure how easy the foilboard will be with less chop but I am guessing quite a bit easier.  I am looking forward to some 15 to 20 and finding out.  :)
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Dwight (DW) on June 24, 2019, 09:59:48 AM
I am not sure how easy the foilboard will be with less chop but I am guessing quite a bit easier. 

Like a thousand times easier. A foil feels every once of energy in the water. Slick glass water is ideal for wind power foil riding. Good luck finding that!  ;D
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: ninja tuna on June 24, 2019, 10:18:51 AM
when the damned wings are finally arrived.


 ;D ;D ;D, you have to almost be an instagooglefacesnap person.  have money burning a hole in my pocket.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: ninja tuna on June 24, 2019, 10:25:23 AM
I was able to try a demo slingshot one over the weekend.  Unfortunately the wind was not very cooperative and light. Under 10 knts. Like the, the gusts were 10knts.  Used a big inflatable. Light wind absolutely sucked.  When a gust came and got me moving a little bit it was kinda nice.  When it was not blowing, it gave you a work out.   Set the edge of the wing on the board until a gust came made it easier.  Inflatable board is not the most controllable thing either.  All in all it was good just to get one in my hands and satisfy my craving to see what it could be like.  Definitely want more of a taste.  I might get a few more opportunities to try it here in the future but I don't know.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: ninja tuna on June 24, 2019, 10:33:42 AM
I will add my input on the “adding a paddle in case”. 

First, the slingshot wing is 2lbs heavier(1kilo) than the 4m duotone.  So now, you want to add the weight of a paddle, for “just in case”.   Also think about the paddle blade wind drag and how it handles gusts as you are riding. 

I have no problem prone paddling out of Maliko from the boat ramp, on a 68L board to the wind line, that barely floats me, and I am a middle aged woman with no weight training.  The wing sits on your back.

Also, if the wind dies, it’s really easy to sit or kneel on your board, and hold the wing (like a spinnaker) and steer in.  I have done that into the harbor in fact when the wind lows dropped but I decided to go to my car anyways.  Unlike having to self rescue kite boarding.  Maybe Kiters and windsurfer need a paddle.  Hehe

I tried the Naish with a paddle attached, and it has lateral movement if you sheet in, and especially pumping, and then it also has feedback delay because of the webbing stretch.  Very inefficient! 

Especially a place like the gorge does not need a safety paddle.  Hitch hike. Even a channel crossing doesn’t because you have a rescue boat.   Honestly it would be impossible to not sense the wind is dropping on a Maliko run or most places and to head toward shore, and hitch hike. 

Nowadays I'm also riding boards so small that I would not be able to use a paddle if I had one. I can't even kneel on some boards and paddle them. If the wind drops, I'm pretty good at flying long enough to get to shore. If the wind goes dead without warning, I'm pretty much in the same fix as any windsurfer or kiter who's also out there.   

I would worry about the leashes breaking!  Need double leashes more than a paddle.

Hey Julie,

One reason I could think of carrying a paddle is the fact the the leading edge on all of these wings are inflatable.  If Murphy  catches you and he eventually does and usually at the worst time.  If out in the ocean a fair way, trying to paddle a semi submersible board in from a ways off shore in good seas and wind could be a bad situation with a big limp piece of canvas.  Most of the time I would say the there would be no reason for the bladder to get punctured but it is just something that could happen.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Julie_Scheyer on June 24, 2019, 10:52:37 AM
A condom can break also!  I live in Maui and paddle or wing now the ocean almost every day.  I have been kiting for 18 years.  I had a leash break that is bad!
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Julie_Scheyer on June 24, 2019, 11:20:48 AM
Admin, Julie, Pono, the experienced people!

I am not interested in foiling whatsoever. I am interested in light days (and light days on the lake mean that it may drop to zero in 2 minutes) on the local lakes to go on big floaty board to go out with a paddle attached to the boom and goof around  and not to be blown downwind. Like I do now for entry level free ride wsrfng. Basically to substitute this light air wsrfng with this light air wing schlogging.

The Q is: is it possible to go upwind on those wide boards without a dagger (or at least not to go downwind, and again having paddle in light air even this is not a total disaster), and how? burrying the windward rail?
And because it is just shlogging it shouldn't be stressfull on my arms. Like right now light air wsrfng I shlog without harness under the power of my 5 m sail, and it is not tiring at all.

what do you think guys?

I see people on Instagram doing this. Give it a go
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Julie_Scheyer on June 24, 2019, 12:29:31 PM
I will add my input on the “adding a paddle in case”. 

First, the slingshot wing is 2lbs heavier(1kilo) than the 4m duotone.  So now, you want to add the weight of a paddle, for “just in case”.   Also think about the paddle blade wind drag and how it handles gusts as you are riding. 

I have no problem prone paddling out of Maliko from the boat ramp, on a 68L board to the wind line, that barely floats me, and I am a middle aged woman with no weight training.  The wing sits on your back.

Also, if the wind dies, it’s really easy to sit or kneel on your board, and hold the wing (like a spinnaker) and steer in.  I have done that into the harbor in fact when the wind lows dropped but I decided to go to my car anyways.  Unlike having to self rescue kite boarding.  Maybe Kiters and windsurfer need a paddle.  Hehe

I tried the Naish with a paddle attached, and it has lateral movement if you sheet in, and especially pumping, and then it also has feedback delay because of the webbing stretch.  Very inefficient! 

Especially a place like the gorge does not need a safety paddle.  Hitch hike. Even a channel crossing doesn’t because you have a rescue boat.   Honestly it would be impossible to not sense the wind is dropping on a Maliko run or most places and to head toward shore, and hitch hike. 

Nowadays I'm also riding boards so small that I would not be able to use a paddle if I had one. I can't even kneel on some boards and paddle them. If the wind drops, I'm pretty good at flying long enough to get to shore. If the wind goes dead without warning, I'm pretty much in the same fix as any windsurfer or kiter who's also out there.   

I would worry about the leashes breaking!  Need double leashes more than a paddle.

Hey Julie,

One reason I could think of carrying a paddle is the fact the the leading edge on all of these wings are inflatable.  If Murphy  catches you and he eventually does and usually at the worst time.  If out in the ocean a fair way, trying to paddle a semi submersible board in from a ways off shore in good seas and wind could be a bad situation with a big limp piece of canvas.  Most of the time I would say the there would be no reason for the bladder to get punctured but it is just something that could happen.

Sure, carry paddles. To each his own. 

Most inflatable hand-held wings have bladders like the ones in kitesurfing kites. These are usually made from polyurethane film about 0.1mm thick. This has been the case with kites for more than two decades now. Yes, a bladder can get a hole. Fortunately, the leaks are usually slow enough that the rider can see that there's a problem, and can go to shore before it becomes a big problem.  Maybe good to check what bladder the brand you buy is using.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: JEG on June 24, 2019, 02:32:13 PM
for me to start I will focus on one at the time, a wing with no foil (board only) and be good at upwind/downwind/sidewind, etc or be good at hydrofoil without the wing. Once you are good at both then its all good but if you are good at one but not the other suk it up or not good at both best you go home and think about it and reset haha.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: alap on June 24, 2019, 10:17:29 PM
so I bought today a Fanatic Ultra Cat, aka FUC, in excellent condition, mast track moves, mast base and extension, seems to work really nice. Weighs 15 kilo.
A 70 cm carbon daggerboard that slides easily, carbon fin, original straps.

It was an envy of board engineering 30 years ago. Original owner. Last 20 years was sitting on the rack.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Fishman on June 26, 2019, 08:16:34 AM
I was wondering when Is these air-wings weight really an issue?

I can imagine in light wind were you and you want to disengage it... Is there other times were a heavier wing would be a con.

I haven't seen much feedback on the heavier Slingwing. Looking at the latest Mackite wing video the slingwing looks  like it could be good in higher wind conditions but I don't know squat about wind toys.
Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Admin on June 26, 2019, 09:26:25 AM
I was wondering when Is these air-wings weight really an issue?

I can imagine in light wind were you and you want to disengage it... Is there other times were a heavier wing would be a con.

I haven't seen much feedback on the heavier Slingwing. Looking at the latest Mackite wing video the slingwing looks  like it could be good in higher wind conditions but I don't know squat about wind toys.

So far, I would say no.  Mostly because the wings lift not only themselves easily but lift your arms as well.  They are also very light.  Have a look at the images below.  This is our SPG 3 under our Duotone 3.  The cut is different and they look to be a skosh different in overall size as well.  The materials seem very similar and possibly the same on some materials.  The SPG get the dual struts and the Duotone gets the aluminum boom, full battens and and windows.  I am weighing the Duotone at 2/10's of a lb lighter on my bathroom scale with the boom (4.6 lbs).  The boom itself weighs 1.8 lbs.  The single strut wings from Naish, etc. may be marginally lighter again.  That would make sense if they are using similar materials and if the actual sizes are really spot on between brands. But, unless one of the brands is doing something to add a lot of weight I would think that the difference there will be negligible.



Title: Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
Post by: Surfside on June 26, 2019, 12:41:12 PM
We got our hands on the sling wing and it seems light. Sadly, so was the wind.