Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: IslandRob on June 03, 2019, 01:34:47 AM
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Cold(er) water Noob question here:
What do people recommend wearing to SUP surf where the water is around ~65 degs and the air is 65-70? I have a fair amount of experience (in tropical conditions :) ) so I don't expect to be floundering in the water and realistically expect to stay out of the water and on the board for almost all of the session. Not terribly excited about piling on the neoprene, but rather be safe that sorry.
What's the gear to have?
-Rob
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Here in NH I wear a Hyperflex 2.5mm longsleeve spring suit for those conditions. Sometimes I wear trunks and a Koredry shirt over that and people can't even tell that I'm wearing a wetsuit.
https://hyperflexusa.com/product/vyrl-ls-back-zip-spring/
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Those are the temps that I have right now. If the air temp is going higher in the sun I'm using a shortie, legs and arms. It's 2mm thick.
For the early 7am go I'm in a full 2mm. And just about to put that away till fall.
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Cold(er) water Noob question here:
What do people recommend wearing to SUP surf where the water is around ~65 degs and the air is 65-70? I have a fair amount of experience (in tropical conditions :) ) so I don't expect to be floundering in the water and realistically expect to stay out of the water and on the board for almost all of the session. Not terribly excited about piling on the neoprene, but rather be safe that sorry.
What's the gear to have?
-Rob
Hi Rob,
I hear you on not wanting to wear rubber, I avoid it at all costs ;D
but:
Each person it is different.
People from a cold water area, may have a built up a tolerance to the cold.
Folks from warmer climates are usually more sensitive to the cold.
Sun is a big factor as well.
Experiment with light rubber at first, you will find your comfort level very quickly.
Note:
if you are paddling offshore or surfing where you may be separated from your board,
always wear a wetsuit that will protect you for a longer period of time.
An interesting guide I found when researching for a broad-spectrum answer this thread.
From the National Center for Cold Water Safety:
http://www.coldwatersafety.org/WhatIsCold.html
Cold water
Controlling your breathing and holding your breath becomes progressively more difficult as water temperature falls as water temperature falls from 70°F to 60°F (21°C to 15°C).
Fact: Cold shock is as extreme between 50-60F (10-15C) as it is at 35F (2C).
Most people who are unaccustomed to cold water will experience a maximum cold shock response somewhere between 50-60F (10-15C).
For some individuals, this happens at 57F (14C), for others, the peak occurs at 52F (11C) and so on.
This means that an unprotected immersion in this temperature range will cause most people to completely lose control of their breathing they will be gasping and hyperventilating as hard and fast as they can.
Since cold shock reaches its maximum intensity between 50-60F (10-15C), it cant get any more intense at lower water temperatures.
In other words, breathing control, once completely lost, cannot be lost to a greater degree.

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Cold(er) water Noob question here:
What do people recommend wearing to SUP surf where the water is around ~65 degs and the air is 65-70?
Really? That's boardshorts weather conditions as far as I'm concerned. But being in SoCal maybe our 65O is a little warmer than elsewhere...cuz I can't remember the last time I was in a full suit.
When it gets "cold" I'm either wearing sleeves and boardshorts, or a short sleeve spring suit....good incentive not to fall in. ;D
EDIT: But as creek said, "Each person it is different"...so just wear what's comfortable to YOU!
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That's a wild chart, Rick... Jeez! 55f in Lk Michigan as a kid was summer water. Needless - we did not stay in long or do 'real swimming'. We see people here in the mid-Atlantic in full suits when 'everybody' is skinning it; they are often from FL. Thin rubber makes a great sunblock.
Jim
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Cold(er) water Noob question here:
What do people recommend wearing to SUP surf where the water is around ~65 degs and the air is 65-70? I have a fair amount of experience (in tropical conditions :) ) so I don't expect to be floundering in the water and realistically expect to stay out of the water and on the board for almost all of the session. Not terribly excited about piling on the neoprene, but rather be safe that sorry.
What's the gear to have?
-Rob
Just did this today in NY. I wore a shortie wetsuit. Was perfect. I was out the week before when the water was a bit colder in my 3/2 wetsuit, and it was too hot, which I hated.
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Here on the upper Texas coast, I've done a lot of wade fishing wearing long quick drying pants, long sleeve quick drying shirt, tennis shoes and a flats hat with a 5" brim. Caught lots of, southern flounder, speckled trout (weakfish for the East Coasters on here) and redfish (red drum).
Even though I only weigh 146 pounds, the minimum water temperature for me is 66 degrees F since I don't shiver in this water temperature. At 65 degrees F, I start to shiver. So I have a "built in thermostat" to let me know how warm the water temperature really is. I do not wear a wetsuit.
There are plenty of places on the web to where I go and which will give me a very close temperature reading of the water. An example is at the link below.
https://www.nodc.noaa.gov/dsdt/cwtg/wgof.html
One of my favorite places to sup surf at is Surfside, Texas which is a hop and a skip away from the city of Freeport, Texas. There is a NOAA weather station in the Surfside Ship Channel. The Surfside Ship Channel sits inbetween the Surfside Jetty and the Quintana Jetty. The link to the station is below.
https://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=fpst2
As of this posting, the beach water temperature is around 85 degrees F.
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Cold(er) water Noob question here:
What do people recommend wearing to SUP surf where the water is around ~65 degs and the air is 65-70? I have a fair amount of experience (in tropical conditions :) ) so I don't expect to be floundering in the water and realistically expect to stay out of the water and on the board for almost all of the session. Not terribly excited about piling on the neoprene, but rather be safe that sorry.
What's the gear to have?
-Rob
Hi Rob,
A few other factors are wind, sun and, umm, personal insulation. This chart nails it for me except usually trunks for the top two temp categories.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2034/7683/files/wetsuit-temp-guide_1024x1024.jpg?v=1509645747)
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I was out the week before when the water was a bit colder in my 3/2 wetsuit, and it was too hot, which I hated.
Sunrise in summer is often chilly where I am so I sometimes need a full suit in the morning, but as the day heats up, it gets too hot. When this happens, I just pull down the top half of my suit and let the arms dangle while I surf.
.
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62 degree air temperature and sunny (and not too windy) => board shorts no rubber,
This is with water temp maybe from 52 on up, but I don't spend much time in the water
- mostly water temp is 55 or higher. This is for surfing - so pretty close to shore.
Overcast and/or windy is trickier.
I've got a 1.5 mm vest I may wear.
Too cold for that a 1.5-2mm zip T-top I like.
I also have wetsuit shorts that I wear if cold or if waves are big for extra float.
Colder than that a 3/2 full suit - its a triathlon suit which is extra stretchy & floaty.
You "need" a quiver of rubber.
;D
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A few other factors are wind, sun and, umm, personal insulation. This chart nails it for me except usually trunks for the top two temp categories.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2034/7683/files/wetsuit-temp-guide_1024x1024.jpg?v=1509645747)
Agree - most places do require trunks. ;D
A couple of things I have that isn't on there is a 4mm vest and lycra pile trunks. The vest is something I rarely plan to wear but is easy to pull on if I miscalculated. Keeping the core warm helps a lot. It does work better for kayaking, which I originally got it for, than SUP. The lycra pile shorts don't suffer as much evaporative cooling as regular trunks and the black ones I have really soak in sunshine heating. I am proud to have little in the way of personal insulation these days and I'll be in the 3mm farmer john at 70 or below unless the air temp and sunshine are providing quick heating and I am near shore.
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Agree - most places do require trunks. ;D
Hah! Let me modify to just trunks.
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Thanks. So anything from naked to a full 2mm. :)
"Personal Insulation" will now going forward be a part of my vocabulary. Just paid Ripcurl a visit and a 1.5mm LS top and board shorts (maybe throw in some wetsuit shorts) is what I'm going with.
-R
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longsleeve rashie and trunks
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I started wearing either jammer swim trunks or compression shorts under my board shorts years ago. Helps a lot with the internal warmth. I have a lot of personal insulation as well. But at 65 degrees i get too warm in a 2mm so im usually in a too and shorts.
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In the NE, trunks and sunscreen.
In SoCal, a 4/3.
😂😂😂
But truthfully thats a weird transition temp range. Cover your head and keep paddling and Im alway surprised at what I can get away with, if Im at the beach. If its touring then you need to be more careful and Id err towards being warmer for sure. Ive really gotten to where I like a light shell over a rash guard. If I can break the wind Im good to way lower temps.
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I never bother with neoprene or tight fitting clothes for flatwater unless conditions are so extremely rough that I think I might fall.
I guess a lot depends on how stable you are on the board. My narrowest flatwater boards were 28 inches wide so I never worried about falling or losing my board.
For flatwater in 65 degree air/water, I would just wear my normal clothes such as shorts, long sleeve tee shirt, maybe a light fleece and carry a windbreaker on deck just in case.
Koredry shirts are excellent if you think you might get wet.
.
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In the NE, trunks and sunscreen.
In SoCal, a 4/3.
😂😂😂
HAHA this is so true. My cousins grew up in Manhattan Beach. I would visit and surf with them and they were in 3/2's when it was legit hot out, and would throw on a flannel after we surfed. I would be in baggies, and baggies at the cafe after we surfed!
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conditions matter
i will dress for air temps if surf's clean and smaller, and i could easily swim in if necessary
big, less clean?? i overdress for the air temp, in case i end up in the water for a while after a leash break or unexpected turn of events
i deal with being overheated occasionally, in exchange for safety--you will not last long in boardshorts in 60F water temps---65? same thing, unless you are a serious athlete, driven to survive--and even then, survival time would be limited
with a 3/2 it's easy to flush to cool down---my thicker suits are dry so i just deal with the heat---hood down, ill splash my face and head with water for a cooldown---works
floppy sleeves/wide open suits dont work so good ducking waves where there's some size on it
generally, I dress for water temps--in case i need to spend a long time in the water, which can happen
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conditions matter
i will dress for air temps if surf's clean and smaller, and i could easily swim in if necessary
big, less clean?? i overdress for the air temp, in case i end up in the water for a while after a leash break or unexpected turn of events
i deal with being overheated occasionally, in exchange for safety--you will not last long in boardshorts in 60F water temps---65? same thing, unless you are a serious athlete, driven to survive--and even then, survival time would be limited
with a 3/2 it's easy to flush to cool down---my thicker suits are dry so i just deal with the heat---hood down, ill splash my face and head with water for a cooldown---works
floppy sleeves/wide open suits dont work so good ducking waves where there's some size on it
generally, I dress for water temps--in case i need to spend a long time in the water, which can happen
Point very well taken. As I am only in my second spring of surfing, I will take this under advice. When it is small and I am not going in the drink a lot I can dress accordingly. But it it gets rough I'll dress more conservatively. Already I have experienced 2-3 foot waves that were, because of high frequency and amount of chop, quite a challenge both to stand up in as well as get back to shore in front of, even without losing my board.
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it is a bit of a shock when, in big surf, you realize you board is gone!
what i dont do and should, is take care to be able to swim with paddle
some have loops sewn to their suits, i used to carry a piece of cord with which i could tie paddle to my waist
so you can swim like a mofo
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Like Eastie says, surf size will def play a factor. 4' and up a 3/2 spring or full for 65 deg water. Water temps above that, I'm board shorts, rash guard, and a truckers hat even in OH stuff:)
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I hate wearing a wetsuit to paddle, especially for downwinding, but right now, with the water temp at 59 and the air temperature being highly variable I'm in a full 3/4 for downwinders and foil surfing. Not so I can stay warm when I'm on the board and connected to it, but in the unlikely even that I'm swimming a long distance.
If I hadn't had a somewhat scary and seriously uncomfortable session with hypothermia at the end of last season I'd probably be in tights, boardies, rash guard and paddle jacket--like I was then. But I got a wakeup call. So I'm dressed for the worst case, like Eastie says.
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In those conditions I might use my 2.5 mm farmer john. I like that the farmer john keeps the lower part of my body covered but leaves my arms free.
I like a farmer john wetsuit because it's really versatile. If you pair it with a wetsuit jacket you can use it in a wide variety of temperatures. When things are warmer you leave your shoulders bare. You can use a long sleeve rash guard under the wetsuit too, which works when maybe the jacket is too much.
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Denim, of course.
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Now that I have said my responsible answer above.....
me personally? I hate rubber and will take every opportunity to avoid it.
As I get older, every little bit helps, so I opt out of wetsuits when the water is above 50*
My guide is air temp and sun.
When everyone else is in full gear, Hoods, boots, gloves.... I am very happy in a 2 mm top.
if sunny and 65 air, just a rash guard.
I can easily handle falling in.... which I do often.
Being big has limited advantages..... this is one.
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Rick, that's a great picture !
Mon am in Eastham I was sweating in my 5/4 ... but my bare feet were COLD!!
JP
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longsleeve rashie and trunks
yep.
It's around 60 now in So Cal and I'm in a 1 mm LS top and 2 mil shorts beneath trunks or a 2mm long john. At 65 it's just trunks and a paddle shirt.
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Wore my 4/3 this morning. Cloud cover kept me from overheating. Surf was O.H. so I was swimming a bunch. I was nice to float in. Super fun session surfing Nuc's! Just me and one foiler. I'm sure the man in the grey suit was under foot. They love the reef at Nuc's. One of the local sup surf chicks was putting the 'eye stickers' on the bottom of her board ::) Hey if it makes you feel safer, why not....
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I wish I had this problem. Just put the 5/4 away in Nova Scotia....
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For the past week or so I was wearing 2mm long sleeve top and trunks, we must have had some serious upwelling overnight cause this morning the water was freezing! Common occurrence this time of year in nj when we have persistent south winds blowing.
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Went out this morning, the report said water temp 61, so just a 3/2 no boots/gloves. Wish I would have had my boots, the temp was at least 5 degrees colder. We had a pretty substantial upwelling due to the overnight south wind.
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I have a 2ml zipperless that I wear a lot. And a shorty.
Neoprene shorts under baggies. Like to have neoprene over my ICD so a vest I wear to avoid
incidental contact.
Zzzzztt. Feels like a 220 dryer line hit. Not fun!
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ouch--yeah, may that damned thing not hit you!
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Saturday mornings dawn patrol session was a just 3/2 with no boots, gloves, or hood. Water and air both about 60...not cold at all. Nice......I likely won't be in a rash guard and trunks till August. ::)
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Anywhere from trunks to a spring suit.
Factors:
Wind
Air temp
How often you'll end up "in the water"
Water temp sensitivity
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With water temps, I think a lot depends on what you're used to.
In Florida, 65 degree water might be considered cold, but in NH that's quite warm.
When water and air are about the same temperature, you can ignore the water temp. With 65 degree air/water, if you try to dress for hypothermia in the water, you will quickly overheat and be miserable. I like to be as warm as comfort will allow to minimize the risk. It's better to be sweating than shivering. Whenever I start to overheat, I just jump in the water and flush my suit with water to cool off. The bigger the temperature difference between air and water, the higher the risk of hypothermia.
Right now in NH, the water is in the low to mid 50's. We won't see 65 degrees until August.
In June, if the air is between 60 and 70 I'm wearing a 3/2 full suit, 3mm boots and no gloves. 75 and sunny, I can probably get away with my 2.5mm long sleeve shorty and no boots.
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With water temps, I think a lot depends on what you're used to.
It really surprises me how much difference that makes. The table I copied and pasted below came out all jumbled up but you can see the ranges in time are very significant based on differences between people. The article it came from (http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/coastal_communities/hypothermia (http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/coastal_communities/hypothermia)) lists cold tolerance as one of the factors.
Water Temperature Expected Time Before Exhaustion or Unconsciousness Expected Time of Survival
(°F) (°C)
32.5° 0.3° < 15 minutes 45 minutes
32.540° 0.34.4° 15 30 minutes 30 90 minutes
4050° 3.310° 30 60 minutes 1 3 hours
5060° 1015.6° 1 2 hours 1 6 hours
6070° 15.621.1° 2 7 hours 2 40 hours
7080° 21.126.7° 3 12 hours 3 hours indefinite
> 80° > 26.7° Indefinite Indefinite
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interesting, rtg--i thought the survival times were much shorter than those shown--not sure how i got that wrong
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Whats also true are the individual differences. Most of would agree that not getting cold is the key. That can vary from person to person. My daughters boyfriend has absolutely no extra meat on his bones and gets cold real quick.
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I get cold really easy too. I doubt I would survive 30 minutes in 55 degree water with no wetsuit.
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With water temps, I think a lot depends on what you're used to.
It really surprises me how much difference that makes. The table I copied and pasted below came out all jumbled up but you can see the ranges in time are very significant based on differences between people. The article it came from (http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/coastal_communities/hypothermia (http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/coastal_communities/hypothermia)) lists cold tolerance as one of the factors.
Water Temperature Expected Time Before Exhaustion or Unconsciousness Expected Time of Survival
(°F) (°C)
32.5° 0.3° < 15 minutes 45 minutes
32.540° 0.34.4° 15 30 minutes 30 90 minutes
4050° 3.310° 30 60 minutes 1 3 hours
5060° 1015.6° 1 2 hours 1 6 hours
6070° 15.621.1° 2 7 hours 2 40 hours
7080° 21.126.7° 3 12 hours 3 hours indefinite
> 80° > 26.7° Indefinite Indefinite
> 80 Indefinite? A well trained diver knows that > 80 is not indefinite!
I use hooded 4/3 for air/water in 60's, esp. because we have wind in side-offshore direction and no extra fat insulation. Do not overheat at all, and can survive extensive swimming if necessary.
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I just switched from my 2/3 full to a 1/2 spring now that the water in the Columbia has warmed a bit and it's getting hot. The 1/2 is a crusty old O'Neill springer that actually feels stiffer than my 2/3 technobutter but doesn't boil my brains.
I get my wingfoil tomorrow, which will likely mean a lot of time spent face first in the water, so I don't know exactly what to wear for that.
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I get my wingfoil tomorrow, which will likely mean a lot of time spent face first in the water, so I don't know exactly what to wear for that.
For that youll need goggles & a swim cap. If nothing else at least youll look good.