Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Admin on May 31, 2019, 03:42:08 AM
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For those interested in how light of a wind you might be able to foil in, check this out. This is zero whitecaps on a 4 meter wing. Sub 10 for sure, and he is pointing. Also a good showing of pumping up onto a foil in ultra light conditions. Pretty much what you would imagine for super light wind wave foiling. That is for sure possible. Very impressive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KBVqNmIWwI
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Same Dude, slightly more wind. He is cranking in still mellow, just capping wind speeds (15?). He is staying switch footed for full reaches on port. Stoked to see that! The less footwork the better for me, and none sound just fine :). Our wings are shipping this week. Wooohooo. Hoping hard that we can pick up the basics of foiling. It is great to see that these things look prime for these light conditions. Here in the Gorge, all of the windsurfing beaches without easy kite launches (basically all of the beaches :)) are empty in these conditions.
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByLxV6rH52b/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByLxeqyHBUa/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByLxS_Bnehf/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
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PS: Question for you experienced foilers. He looks like he is trimming the board to be slightly downhill when he is reaching comfortably. Is that a thing?
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PS: Question for you experienced foilers. He looks like he is trimming the board to be slightly downhill when he is reaching comfortably. Is that a thing?
What does downhill mean? Downwind or riding down the wave face?
Anyway, I’ll ramble on what you might be seeing. You have to exert lots of effort to break free of the water, pumping the sail, or wing, and the board. Then once airborne, the last thing you want, is to have to do all that work again! So your first priority once up, let the speed build, then your stable and the safe flying margin is better for not dropping off foil. So then it becomes a game of reading the conditions and keeping the speed up and wave energy working for you. At this point you can actually stay airborne at much lower wind speeds, but you really have to be alert and keep using that wave energy wisely. The last thing you want, is to do all that hard work again to get airborne.
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PS: Question for you experienced foilers. He looks like he is trimming the board to be slightly downhill when he is reaching comfortably. Is that a thing?
What does downhill mean? Downwind or riding down the wave face?
Hi Dwight, He looks like he is keeping the nose of his board dipped slightly down and then if it starts to dive he makes a little back foot adjustment rises back up a bit and then back to that dipped position. Maybe not?
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Down for speed, up for height. You'll have a fairly easy time of this since you're a snowboarder. Front foot pressure keeps the foil under control by varying the angle of attack. An increased angle of attack gives a little more lift, but a lot more drag. If you're not trying to increase height you're generally trimming the wing flat or slightly down to get the speed up. The height above the water and your speed are where you're storing energy. Higher and faster means you can go longer if you run out of energy or if you want to turn.
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Down for speed, up for height. You'll have a fairly easy time of this since you're a snowboarder. Front foot pressure keeps the foil under control by varying the angle of attack. An increased angle of attack gives a little more lift, but a lot more drag. If you're not trying to increase height you're generally trimming the wing flat or slightly down to get the speed up. The height above the water and your speed are where you're storing energy. Higher and faster means you can go longer if you run out of energy or if you want to turn.
Cool. Thanks guys. So, I am understanding that you can change the foil angle up or down a bit without following that angle? That is how it appears but my mind does not grasp that. Or is it a series of mellow adjustments that I am not picking up on?
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Yes to the former. The wing is flying. In many respects it's just like an airplane--you don't make an airplane climb by pointing the nose up, you make it climb by opening the throttle. Foilers violate that all the time with pumping and popping the nose up to get the board up in a wave, but it's only a momentary thing. If you hold that pose too long the wing loses speed and stalls. Conversely if you have the angle of attack sharply negative, you will drive it down, but you'll be going very fast when you do. A little gentle downward tilt increases speed, decreases drag, and can wind up lifting you higher if you continue getting some kind of energy input--wave, sail, kite or wing. It's one of the reasons why kite foilers often seem to be tiptoeing around. It's relatively easy to outspeed the kite and get slack strings if it's high above you in something close to the neutral position. Same thing happens in a wave. If you catch a good sized wave and trim the foil so it won't overfoil and toss you, you have to turn right away or your speed will get you into the flats before you can react.
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Yes to the former. The wing is flying. In many respects it's just like an airplane--you don't make an airplane climb by pointing the nose up, you make it climb by opening the throttle. Foilers violate that all the time with pumping and popping the nose up to get the board up in a wave, but it's only a momentary thing. If you hold that pose too long the wing loses speed and stalls. Conversely if you have the angle of attack sharply negative, you will drive it down, but you'll be going very fast when you do. A little gentle downward tilt increases speed, decreases drag, and can wind up lifting you higher if you continue getting some kind of energy input--wave, sail, kite or wing. It's one of the reasons why kite foilers often seem to be tiptoeing around. It's relatively easy to outspeed the kite and get slack strings if it's high above you in something close to the neutral position. Same thing happens in a wave. If you catch a good sized wave and trim the foil so it won't overfoil and toss you, you have to turn right away or your speed will get you into the flats before you can react.
Ooooh! I have a lot to learn.
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To further mess with your head.... >:(
I sometimes see guys riding along forcing the foil to fly instead of letting it fly. Powering along nose high, forcing it to fly near stall. Then sometimes you see the opposite. It’s whacky.
You really, really, should fly strapless to learn to feel the wing and learn to fly it with foot placement. Giving the wing what it wants at all times. Maximizing lift/drag and efficiency. When you truly understand trim and maximize the wing like a pro, add your straps if you want. Just don’t get trapped into fixed feet and forcing a foil to fly out of ideal trim.
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This could be you soon Admin. ;D
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByN9gLUnAzh/?igshid=1eg93z75dvdy7
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This could be you soon Admin. ;D
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByN9gLUnAzh/?igshid=1eg93z75dvdy7
I imagine there will be a long period of that and worse :). I'm just stoked to let the sucking begin.
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my worse nightmare and it's hard enough with the foil :o ;D
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That very well could have been me. We started out on the biggest windsurfer I've ever seen. I could barely carry it. On my knees, flying the wing, wobbling out to the reef and back, doing the walk of shame.
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Wrong thread
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The good news is that I can have a Duotone tomorrow. The bad news is that given my place in line, it's going to be a 3M or wait until the next shipment. Given my maturity and the fact that I'm pretty heavy for the 3M to be any good to me, and my order was for a 4M and 5M, I am of course, turning down the offer of a 3M.
Yeah, right.
Tomorrow will be nuking, and I'll be out in the thick of it, with a little hankie tied to a boom. It's going to be fine. I'm certain.
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The good news is that I can have a Duotone tomorrow. The bad news is that given my place in line, it's going to be a 3M or wait until the next shipment. Given my maturity and the fact that I'm pretty heavy for the 3M to be any good to me, and my order was for a 4M and 5M, I am of course, turning down the offer of a 3M.
Yeah, right.
Tomorrow will be nuking, and I'll be out in the thick of it, with a little hankie tied to a boom. It's going to be fine. I'm certain.
We have 3, 4 and 5 SPG wings ready to go. Back on Friday. Bring Advil. Are you ready?
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https://www.facebook.com/wingdotsurf/videos/1122860717911978/
https://www.instagram.com/p/By4wb8-HVdP/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
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Someday the kooks will start showing up at our park >:(
https://www.instagram.com/p/By4wb8-HVdP/?igshid=16u2evwsofw9z
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OK ,one question. I have seen a couple of videos now where the guys are pumping the wing and trying to get the foil going. I get that from windsurfing to get a little extra air. But wouldn't it be better to just hold the wing and pump the foil.
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Hey PonoBill,
Did you score yours from Bigwinds? I’m on “the list” with a deposit but am probably far down-haven’t heard anything from them.
Cheers
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Yes. I don't know if this is still true, but they have more 3M wings than they have people on the list. You might be able to score one if you call them today--that's how I'm getting mine. Talk to TJ.
Admin--yes I am very ready. Advil supply stocked. Impact vest fluffed and ready. Now we just need to figure out the beat place to flop around in.
Ninja, I had more luck not pumping at all. Just power up on a reach and let the foil drive itself out of the water. That assumes enough wind to do that, but I was in gusty less than 20mph when I did it. I think a lot of pumping might be fine once I'm more used to the thing, but it worked to just let it lift and be stable.
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Aloha! I’m new to this forum. I have been hydrofoiling downwind using Foilwings for a few months. “how much wind” Here is Kane hydrofoiling just by pumping. It’s how much you can pump, and your hydrofoil board and hydrofoil wing size. I’m not much of a pumper, or paddler, so I need the wings...Duotone has a 5m and it is comfortable for mediocre non pumping athlete me, on a 2000sqcm front wing and 68l board in avg 12mph. A more skilled person can easily ride it in less.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BymrYM4nGRX/?igshid=mxen1tck9c6e
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more 3M wings than they have people on the list.
Here is a video of Ken Winner 190lb riding a 3m in the gorge gusty 28avg. This day Dan and Rod thought it was too windy for their 4m, so didn’t even go. The 3m was too big for me this day but didn’t have a 2m in the gorge. I think most people their will want a 3m if they want to ride 25+ which is when it’s the most fun.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BySZVePn06Z/?igshid=jtu2es0dmp6l
Here is me a less windy day on a 3m too. https://www.instagram.com/p/ByMid7THGZQ/?igshid=5nyu7dxm1ou3
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Very cool Julie. It's blowing pretty hard today, so I'll be able to try it out as soon as I get my hands on it. I'm making the bits to do two carbon booms. They'll be very light but should be strong enough. I'm using paddle shafts instead of the smaller diameter, thicker carbon usually used for windsurfing booms. I don't think that much strength is necessary--we'll soon know if I'm wrong. I didn't get the specs for the boom, so I'm kind of flying blind until the parts show up. Let me know if you or Ken sent the specs, my spam filter is fairly aggressive. Absent some big surprise they'll be tested and ready when you guys get here.
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OK ,one question. I have seen a couple of videos now where the guys are pumping the wing and trying to get the foil going. I get that from windsurfing to get a little extra air. But wouldn't it be better to just hold the wing and pump the foil.
You need flow over the foil to make it work. Just pulling the foil up and down does nothing without forward motion. So you need both. The wing sail making some forward motion, then the foil will doing something when you pump it. The more forward motion you make with the wing sail, the easier the foil will be to pump, and the more effective foil pumping will be.
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Hi Dwight, He looks like he is keeping the nose of his board dipped slightly down and then if it starts to dive he makes a little back foot adjustment rises back up a bit and then back to that dipped position. Maybe not?
What you’re seeing is a SUP being driven hard and fast by the wing sail. That makes it ride nose low. Lower than you’d see in normal paddle surfing with a foil.
The reason is that foil designers set wing and fuselage angles of attack so that boards ride level at target speeds. Ride too slow and the nose will ride high. Ride too fast and the nose will ride low (because the front wing has to take a lower angle of attack at high speed). Riders with hand-held wings can force their boards to higher speeds than a surfer will normally manage (at least after the drop), so it's not uncommon to see the nose of the wind-powered SUP or surf foil board riding lower than you would expect.
If there's a mismatch between rider weight and front wing size -- i.e, the rider is light and the wing is big -- the board's nose will ride more noticeably low at high speed. If the rider is heavy and the wing is small, the board may ride nose up at all but high speed.
There are other complicating factors (like back wing loading at high speed), but that's the essence of it.
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Thank you for the explanations Pono and Dwight.
Looking at the video Dwight posted on page 1 a little bit more. I know the water is mixed up and there is some cross chop in the video. But the guy looks like he his trying to take off going upwind rather than starting cross wind or downwind and then turning upwind. What it looks like to me anyways.
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Downwind doesn't work for taking off. As soon as you start moving your speed is subtracted from the wind speed so the wing gets less power. And the wing doesn't like being used as a sail, so if you want it to behave well you need to reverse it so the leading edge is facing you. More than a bit clumsy, but that's how people are downwinding with the wings. I think a broad reach will be almost as ineffective.
Close hauled will give you the highest apparent speed across the wing and the most lift when the contraption first starts moving, but I don't think the guy flopping around is really trying to achieve that. I think the people in the videos that are pumping away when they are barely moving are just trying too hard to get up too early. I got up on what I think was pretty much a beam reach--with the wind at 90 degrees to the board and wind. As soon as I got up the board kind of went more upwind on autopilot.
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I’m sure wing foiling is closer to windsurf foiling, than kitesurf foiling.
I windsurf foil a huge surf wing. I have to pump to get going most of the time. The pump is identical to regular windsurfing. A tick off beam reach is ideal.
Where foiling differs from regular windsurfing, is once up on foil, you want to make sure you had enough forward speed when you pop up to stay up and stay stable. A premature pop up (not enough flow across the wing) will make a beginner crash. A good foiler will continue to pump while airborne, if need.
Also, once up, a foil loves to go upwind and that makes it power up massively. So quick, and with so much power, it will shock you. Don’t panic, just head off the wind and the power is gone. I always tell my wife, don’t worry if the wind nukes once you’re out foiling, you can always ride downwind until it is all gone. A windsurf foiler can foil downwind at angles you would not believe. As close to a wing surfer as you can get. Probably 170 degrees. I just hold the sail across the board and surf the foil.
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I have high hopes for the park and play (shuttle free) downwinding side of things. These things point super high into the wind so getting back upwind for mile long mini circuits will be awesome. There are some Gorge locations with epic downwinding action and no (easy) kite launches that suck for shuttles. Those would be great spots for this.
As things progress I imagine we will lose the all luffing downwind thing. Powered, linked, swell carves will be awesome. At that point we will be using the gorge swells to the max. STOKED!
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As things progress I imagine we will lose the all luffing downwind thing. Powered, linked, swell carves will be awesome. At that point we will be using the gorge swells to the max. STOKED!
Not sure about that. We find the luffing, zero wind power mode the most satisfying part of foiling. That’s when you truly feel the wave energy. It is as close to real surf foiling you can get, when we can’t surf foil due to wind.
Wind powered-up foiling can get just as boring as all other forms of wind sports to those who’ve done it all their lives. Where we still find pleasure in wind powered-up foiling, is going great distances, exploring, and floating over the chop, riding on pillows, as opposed to getting beaten up the old way.
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I never got bored going SUP downwind and chasing bumps. My shoulders and back got tired/injured though. I went out downwinging yesterday and it wasn’t as windy as I hoped(could have used the 4m) but with the wing I could pump it and keep flying and gliding.
https://www.instagram.com/p/By7zo2tn_nq/?igshid=plmhwm0nn4aw
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Not sure about that. We find the luffing, zero wind power mode the most satisfying part of foiling. That’s when you truly feel the wave energy. It is as close to real surf foiling you can get, when we can’t surf foil due to wind.
Wind powered-up foiling can get just as boring as all other forms of wind sports to those who’ve done it all their lives. Where we still find pleasure in wind powered-up foiling, is going great distances, exploring, and floating over the chop, riding on pillows, as opposed to getting beaten up the old way.
I can't imagine it won't progress past that quickly. Watching the windsurf foilers here now they are in the mix with the kitefoilers and the standard kiters and windsurfers. They are powering through killer turns, carving on the swell 360's, doing most of the big aerial movess, etc. They have come a long way from the big board, uphaul style foil cruising. Right now the Wingsurfers are pretty much straight lining it downwind. Don't get me wrong, that is awesome for something that is brand new. I'll still have to learn to foil before I can get there :).
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Here is a really nicely produced video with a lot of drone footage and a number of sessions. The guy's stoke is evident. There a a few nice clips of him really working to get foiling.
https://vimeo.com/345997061
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Here is a really beautiful low wind video from Gong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJgr2QE05sY
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Wow, assuming those guys are about 6' tall, those Gong wings measure out at more than 6 meters, almost seven. I want a big wing, dammit. My 3M was a bad joke, the 4M is close, but the only time I get enough wind to get up easily is when the swell is nuts and the wind is gusty. I'm getting there, but I can tell absolutely that 5 and 6M are going to be my goto wings.
I'd much rather have a smaller foil and a bigger wing than the other way around. The M280 GoFoil wing is super draggy, so I need a really hard push to shove it to lift-off speed, and generally, I need to pump both wing and foil as hard as I can--which isn't all that effective since the 280 feels like I'm pumping in peanut butter. Then as soon as it comes up that big push is WAY too much and I need to get the wing to neutral while I'm still unstable. I'll get there, I'm making progress every day that there's wind, but the less than ideal gear sizes makes it much harder. I'd try another manufacturer's wing, but I'm really sold on the Duotone design. It feels more controllable to me, with more power for a given size than the others I've tried.
The Axis foil is a better compromise in many ways, there's much less drag and it comes up with less drama than the M280, but the 1080 Axis wing more like the M200 in its lift characteristics, so it takes a lot of speed to get my ass up and flying. At my size, it isn't a silver bullet. I only have a 90CM mast for it, which is great in the swell if I get reasonably high, but the river has a lot of weed in it this time of year, and hitting a patch of weed at speed is a remarkable experience.
My theoretical solution, which I dreamed up for downwind foiling, but would be fine for wing foiling, is to build my own foil wings to suit my size, aiming for the highest lift/drag ratio in a grande size. It's the reason I bought an Axis setup to begin with--the attachment method makes it feasible. But my current obsession with wing foiling means I'm spending very little time at the shop. It's a goofy situation.
The positive outcomes of having a wing that's too small for me is that I'm learning to sail the thing fairly well, and I am highly motivated to lose weight. Unfortunately losing weight is a long term solution and I want to fly NOW. I did a long set of downwind reaches two days ago that felt really good. With the relatively small angle I was jibing through I could easily try out ways of riding heel first or switchfoot. Now if I could just do that up on the foil.
Yesterday the wind was light everywhere, but it was extremely steady around noon, and most of the places I looked at had minimal swell. It would have been an awesome day for a big wing, but as it was, it was simply no go.
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I doubt that a bigger wing would have helped yesterday. Gusty 3-7 seems to be below the fun threshold for the wing. Even if you could fly the foil, the wing won't provide any lift. Holding the surf wing aloft in sub flight conditions is exhausting. Maybe some gear tweaking could extend the range, but for now I'm pegging my fun conditions wind range at 10-30.
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Yeah, yesterday sucked. Temira blew it, and so did iWindsurf. There was a little more out east, but not enough to keep me driving. The forecast is good for noon on today. Gorge Champs is going to run today, I'd rather wing foil, so I'm bailing.
Oh, and it's a 1020 Axis wing.
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Wow, assuming those guys are about 6' tall, those Gong wings measure out at more than 6 meters, almost seven. I want a big wing, dammit. My 3M was a bad joke, the 4M is close, but the only time I get enough wind to get up easily is when the swell is nuts and the wind is gusty. I'm getting there, but I can tell absolutely that 5 and 6M are going to be my goto wings.
I'd much rather have a smaller foil and a bigger wing than the other way around. The M280 GoFoil wing is super draggy, so I need a really hard push to shove it to lift-off speed, and generally, I need to pump both wing and foil as hard as I can--which isn't all that effective since the 280 feels like I'm pumping in peanut butter. Then as soon as it comes up that big push is WAY too much and I need to get the wing to neutral while I'm still unstable. I'll get there, I'm making progress every day that there's wind, but the less than ideal gear sizes makes it much harder. I'd try another manufacturer's wing, but I'm really sold on the Duotone design. It feels more controllable to me, with more power for a given size than the others I've tried.
The Axis foil is a better compromise in many ways, there's much less drag and it comes up with less drama than the M280, but the 1080 Axis wing more like the M200 in its lift characteristics, so it takes a lot of speed to get my ass up and flying. At my size, it isn't a silver bullet. I only have a 90CM mast for it, which is great in the swell if I get reasonably high, but the river has a lot of weed in it this time of year, and hitting a patch of weed at speed is a remarkable experience.
My theoretical solution, which I dreamed up for downwind foiling, but would be fine for wing foiling, is to build my own foil wings to suit my size, aiming for the highest lift/drag ratio in a grande size. It's the reason I bought an Axis setup to begin with--the attachment method makes it feasible. But my current obsession with wing foiling means I'm spending very little time at the shop. It's a goofy situation.
The positive outcomes of having a wing that's too small for me is that I'm learning to sail the thing fairly well, and I am highly motivated to lose weight. Unfortunately losing weight is a long term solution and I want to fly NOW. I did a long set of downwind reaches two days ago that felt really good. With the relatively small angle I was jibing through I could easily try out ways of riding heel first or switchfoot. Now if I could just do that up on the foil.
Yesterday the wind was light everywhere, but it was extremely steady around noon, and most of the places I looked at had minimal swell. It would have been an awesome day for a big wing, but as it was, it was simply no go.
I am going to try the Iwa wing again today all the way forward in the track. I reread the info on the GoFoil site https://gofoil.com/wings/ and it might explain some of the all at once lift we are noticing. Lets see how that goes.
PS: for the video above I measured the length of the number "7" printed on the wing, multiplied by 0 and then added 7 to determine that it was a 7 meter. I used a similar equation to calculate that in some scenes they were using a 5 :).
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Yeah, yeah. I'm good at math, not so good at paying attention to detail.
I note the GoFoil site mentions weights up to 210. Fat boyz need not apply. Obviously, they work fine at higher weights, there are some dudes who make me look little ripping it up on GoFoils.
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Bill, you and Big Mike should be pen pals. He keeps me in the loop. He is always testing the latest big boy wings. GL-225 has more lift than Signature 250. GL-240 he thinks will be ideal for him.
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Is that the new GoFoil wing? If so I've been offered a chance to try it. I hate to do that, I'm hard on equipment so I don't like to use other peoples stuff--especially when it's made of unobtainium, but I can make an exception.
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Yes. Big Mike says the GL GoFoil wings work great. He has a GL-240 coming from China. They feel limitless when pushing them fast, towing, kiting, etc. Of course he’s in constant search for pump monkey foils that work at his weight. The Signature 250 feels like zero drag, but still not enough lift for him to pump back out. He tries everything. Armstrong, Axis, GoFoil is still king at his weight.
I plan to get some GLs when they are easier to get. I’m hopeful they are the perfect wing surfer foils. The bonus will be paddle SUP use.
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I plan to get some GLs when they are easier to get. I’m hopeful they are the perfect wing surfer foils. The bonus will be paddle SUP use.
Dwight, I like your plan, have some similar in mind.
In addition, I like to know with which smallest surface front wings the most speed with the HandWings are feasible.
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I'm going to try one tomorrow. I'd do a second session today but I went home for a little break and some nutrition and walked in on the birthday party Diane was having for a friend of hers. Three beautiful women drinking martinis. What to do?
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That's a pretty tall mast the Gong folks are using. Hmm... the bigger the wing, the more mast area needed?
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No, the tall mast helps with overfoiling and big swell. I've been using a 24" mast and it was a bitch, I kept hitting the crests of the swells.
I had a good day today, the wind at the hook was fairly steady, about 20mph with gusts a little higher. I was able to foil in both directions, regular and switchfoot. My switchfoot runs didn't last very long and resulted in some spectacular crashes, but I was able to do it better than expected.
Good progress.
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Great, I'll use the 29.5 mast. Received notice that the wing will ship today. Bird island trips soon. Yay!
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Great, I'll use the 29.5 mast. Received notice that the wing will ship today. Bird island trips soon. Yay!
With the Tuttle to plate converter it ends up at 33.5 inches. I am not sure if that is good or bad but it is what I've got.
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With the Tuttle to plate converter it ends up at 33.5 inches. I am not sure if that is good or bad but it is what I've got.
Caught some chest to head from TS Barry with light side off conditions this past weekend. Breached a couple of times with the 29.5....scary! I might follow your lead and also get the converter to get some extra height and foil placement while winging it.
Are you finding board length helps with lift off or tracking upwind while shloging? We got hold of the shop demo for an afternoon and set it up with DW's 5'11" Falcon, 24" mast and 280. Wind was 10-15 mph. After 2 hours of playing around and many "walks of shame", I was able to track back upwind to the launch. Was unsuccessful at foiling with the 4.2 wing....that 7 meter looks like it might help here in our low wind environment.
BTW, DW's board ROCKS! Can't believe how stable it is for this 215lb geezer!
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With the Tuttle to plate converter it ends up at 33.5 inches. I am not sure if that is good or bad but it is what I've got.
Caught some chest to head from TS Barry with light side off conditions this past weekend. Breached a couple of times with the 29.5....scary! I might follow your lead and also get the converter to get some extra height and foil placement while winging it.
Are you finding board length helps with lift off or tracking upwind while shloging? We got hold of the shop demo for an afternoon and set it up with DW's 5'11" Falcon, 24" mast and 280. Wind was 10-15 mph. After 2 hours of playing around and many "walks of shame", I was able to track back upwind to the launch. Was unsuccessful at foiling with the 4.2 wing....that 7 meter looks like it might help here in our low wind environment.
BTW, DW's board ROCKS! Can't believe how stable it is for this 215lb geezer!
Hi Surf,
I would love to see a pic of your board. Post it up!
I just switched down to my 6'6 Slingshot board and only have one session on it. Chan switched down to her 5'10. It went better than expected. With really gusty winds we were making reaches across the swell/current line (trying not to foil) and working on foiling on the far side (no current). My board is a little harder to knee start from but it is actually easier to manage when schlogging because the chop and current don't mess with it as much. That is a big issue here. I look at the real 5.0 conditions and the long stretches of flat water in that Gong video with envy. We are not getting that here. The boards are comparatively light so we are actually fighting early foiling. They are short enough that there is a very small range of foot positions that will work without overweighting the tail or digging the nose. We had tried the foils further back on our "old" boards and that helped a little. We are going to try one wing size down on the smaller boards as these are foiling even easier. We are looking for a feeling that we are initiating foiling rather than getting foiled. In my very limited experience I think you will have a hard time foiling a 4.2 in 10-15. That seems about the minimum for the sport as a beginner. My 5 is perfect at 12-17 (I am 165 lbs). That may change as we all add experience. :)
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That may change as we all add experience. :)
I sure hope so. :) I can just imagine fighting the chop to get going. We have the Texas City Dike where you can ride close to 5 miles in flat water. Sadly, the wind doesn't blow the right direction frequently enough.
Here's a pic of DW's board...the owner let me borrow it while he was out of the country.
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BTW, that's my windowlicker in the pic that was built by my Deadbeat buddy. He builds for the fun of it.
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Great progress for a single day in light wind Surfside. Going upwind with these wings is tricky, but once you get it, it makes sense and gets easier. The most efficient position for upwind without foiling puts the wingtip close to the water--very easy to drag the tip which is hard to recover from once it starts dragging. I pump the wing lightly when going upwind off the foil, which makes a wingtip drag easier to recover from since you are already lifting it when the drag happens. That will all sound like babble to anyone who hasn't tried a wing, but probably makes sense to those that have.
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Thanks, I'll apply that technique next time. My ah ha moment was the straightening of the forward arm with slight torso rotation towards the nose. I am looking forward to it getting easier....
Also the spot I was at is leeward of a low lying island. Water depth is waist to chest. Location helped a lot I'm sure :)
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That may change as we all add experience. :)
I sure hope so. :) I can just imagine fighting the chop to get going. We have the Texas City Dike where you can ride close to 5 miles in flat water. Sadly, the wind doesn't blow the right direction frequently enough.
Here's a pic of DW's board...the owner let me borrow it while he was out of the country.
Sweet! I like the strap placement. I put a front strap on my board and I am loving that. I am finding it really helpful for take offs (the landings are pretty much the same :)). I am going to try the back strap as well. Mine are just straight up the stringer (only option).
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Sweet! I like the strap placement. I put a front strap on my board and I am loving that. I am finding it really helpful for take offs (the landings are pretty much the same :)). I am going to try the back strap as well. Mine are just straight up the stringer (only option).
Great! Yeah, they're spot on for surfing but I like the straight up the stringer for winging or what Robby has in his latest video.
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https://www.instagram.com/tv/B0OWmwpHFj2/?igshid=13nivpbona8o8
Kane on the GL-240 with Big Mike’s 4’11
These wings sure look like the future to me.
Big Mike said Kane rode for 13 minutes like that, then got bored and stopped. He never paddled. He launched from the beach too.
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This vid show the F-one Swing in action. This may be the most reduced wing out there. Very minimal and I imagine very light. The F-one team is riding these with tiny boards and straps in higher wind, boosting big airs, and making it look great. This shows a much lighter day and a full float board. 4.2 wing and an 1800 water wing. Those seem like very smart sizes. Something right between an M-200 and a Iwa sounds delightful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw0Q6CcFHeU
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Impressive! The new foils, wings and the guy in the video!
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This vid show the F-one Swing in action. This may be the most reduced wing out there. Very minimal and I imagine very light. The F-one team is riding these with tiny boards and straps in higher wind, boosting big airs, and making it look great. This shows a much lighter day and a full float board. 4.2 wing and an 1800 water wing. Those seem like very smart sizes. Something right between an M-200 and a Iwa sounds delightful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw0Q6CcFHeU
That guy only has one arm, too.
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Maybe I am wrong, but the F one wings seems to me to have the most beautiful profiles on the market.
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In addition, I like to know with which smallest surface front wings the most speed with the HandWings are feasible.
The smaller the hydrofoil wing, the higher top speed of course then it’s your skill to get it flying. Ken Winner has used 900sqcm and at his weight 190lbs that seemed too small. He’s now riding a 1250 dutone spirit surf kite hydrofoil and loves it. I at 125lbs still am not efficient to get flying, so I like a little bigger wing Fanatic 1500 aero surf for more lift, and I feel it’s as fast as I want to go :) we both use long 80cm fuselage and 90cm Masts
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Julie, thanks for the insider info. I think the new HA front foils will speedwise shake up the market in the future. As a beginner (160lbs), I bravely ordered the Axis 1000 with 1388 cm2, just trust the Duotone propulsion.
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This is just beautiful to watch. This is a 6 Meter wing and I want one!
https://www.facebook.com/fonekites/videos/2320143114966539/
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Me too admin. The 4.2 for my 215 lbs with the Maliko 200 is 20-25 mph. I definitely need a bigger wing for our conditions here.
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This kid is making a good argument for ultra light wings. He is on the foil here on a small wing when big kites are just slowly cruising. That is a 4.2 and the wind is 8-12 MPH! I originally didn't see much advantage. That is likely due to the fact that we started in a super windy stretch. :) Even in modest wind small weight differences don't seem to matter much. But, when you are at the very low end of the range for a wing it seems like it can make a big difference.
https://www.facebook.com/wingdotsurf/videos/2354190954903154/
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don't be fooled - some of these kids have Helium bones.....we have a kid here who paddles out on his prone foil board with wing in tow, prones into a wave and then keeps on going by pumping with both wings - too little wind to get on foil.
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....and superman knees, Peter. Who needs a damn wing?!
https://www.instagram.com/p/B09SIQaHHV_/
Jim
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don't be fooled - some of these kids have Helium bones.....we have a kid here who paddles out on his prone foil board with wing in tow, prones into a wave and then keeps on going by pumping with both wings - too little wind to get on foil.
We stopped by the Event site late afternoon yesterday to watch a group of Wing Surfers that went out in really light winds. There were 7 or at people out all drifting around and occasionally trying to pump onto a foil. It looked too light. Then this kid, Titouan, launches, pumps a few times, pops up on the foil and proceeds to carve 8's through the group. It was incredibly impressive. I am sure there will be some video soon as the beach was packed with event goers. Eventually the wind notched up (still very light) and more people started to move. He may actually have helium bones. :)
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I used to have helium bones when I rode Berky boards but at some point they filled in with lead.
Now I have to use bigger boards for windsurfing.
Lets hope after I learn to Wing Foil I can use a small board again.
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https://youtu.be/-SBhZLIiNLw