Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: spirit4earth on May 28, 2019, 07:24:35 PM
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I’m looking for a blade that is very forgiving on the shoulders. Can I get input on the Elite Wiki 74 vs the Mana 82 vs the Konihi 84 (which I have but might trade). What are the weight differences? Which blades require the more perfect technique?
Thanks in advance!
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Mana vs Konihi, the Mana is more forgiving both on shoulders and technic IMO.
maybe someone else has input on the Wiki 74 but it look like very surf oriented to me.
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I wouldn’t think of the Wiki as a particularly soft and forgiving blade, for the size.
With quite stiff blades like the Ke Nalu, it’s the shaft that will matter a lot. For you, I’d get the xtuf, ie. the softest they do.
As far as other brands go, the QB Trifecta is kind to the body, and the cheaper versions with softer material will be easier still.
Black Project now make a 72” Surge paddle that you can get with a flex shaft. It’s designed for light people in the 35 – 60kg range, and would be quite easy on the body for a smaller person (despite the blade angle they use).
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I have an xTuff, but I haven’t switched handles yet. Maybe that will make the Konihi feel softer.
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The handle isn't going to change the softness and
The Mana has a softer catch and more forgiving design
Wiki is more forgiving to paddling technique
OR
For less than you pay for a new MANA you could get a Chinook Thrust 82 just as light very forgiving.
PM me for more details
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
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Spirit,
We must have the same taste in sup kit as I have both the 84 Wki and 74 Wiki. I bought 84 first and then the 74 a couple of years later. When my shoulders aren't feeling too good the Wiki 74 is definitely easier. The cadance is quicker and that suits me when catching waves. The quality of both paddles are excellent and I'm very pleased with them!
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Spirit,
We must have the same taste in sup kit as I have both the 84 Wki and 74 Wiki. I bought 84 first and then the 74 a couple of years later. When my shoulders aren't feeling too good the Wiki 74 is definitely easier. The cadance is quicker and that suits me when catching waves. The quality of both paddles are excellent and I'm very pleased with them!
I also have both and agree completely with supcymru. I use the 84 in smaller waves when my cadence doesn't have to be as quick but i want to get the board planing. I dont use the Xtuf 74 much anymore because I bought the black project 77 Surge.
That paddle is very forgiving but doesnt give near the torque of the Wiki. I use the Surge for bigger waves when Im very close to the impact zone and maybe only taking 3-5 very high cadence paddles to pivot and takeoff on the face.
That said- im 215lbs so I'd be suprised if you would need the 84 for your application as I think you weigh a bit less from other posts.
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Spirit,
We must have the same taste in sup kit as I have both the 84 Wki and 74 Wiki. I bought 84 first and then the 74 a couple of years later. When my shoulders aren't feeling too good the Wiki 74 is definitely easier. The cadance is quicker and that suits me when catching waves. The quality of both paddles are excellent and I'm very pleased with them!
Is that the Elite Wiki or the xTuff? I don’t think I need the xTuff. Btw, this isn’t for surfing, but rather for lakes and a calm ocean. I do like the idea of smaller!
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Both have the xtuf blades and ergo handles but the 84 has the xtuf(s) shaft whilst the 74 has the 100 flex shaft. When I paddle on flat days the 74 feels great to me.
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I own a Wiki 74 with the x tuf stiff for surfing cut at head high; and a mana 84 with the x tuff stiff for flat water and the very occasional race.
My shoulders are 71 years young; total junk from baseball and hockey. There is a reason kids don't throw curve balls in little league now.
But in 58 since I grew early I was nasty..
Once I got the smallest blades possible problems of discomfort vanished..
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I don’t know if I should go with the Elite Wiki 74 or the xTuff Wiki 74.
I’d like to trade the Konihi 84 for one, if possible.
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Xtuf way easier on shoulders if that's your major concern.
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Xtuf way easier on shoulders if that's your major concern.
I thought this was just true of the shafts. The xTuff Wiki is fiberglass,right? I guess that would be slightly “softer” than the Elite carbon blade.
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Was just referring to the shafts.
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Elite is high grade carbon, more pretty fiber's & less epoxy, Xtuff is slightly lower grade carbon, not as pretty, like flat black, More epoxy to fiber ratio than the elite. So it is a little heavier than the elite.
Xtuff is not fiberglass, it is carbon.
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Elite is high grade carbon, more pretty fiber's & less epoxy, Xtuff is slightly lower grade carbon, not as pretty, like flat black, More epoxy to fiber ratio than the elite. So it is a little heavier than the elite.
Xtuff is not fiberglass, it is carbon.
I think we’re getting shafts and blades confused. I have the xTuff shaft, which is carbon, but the xTuff Wiki blade is reinforced fiberglass. So, I’m wondering about differences between the carbon Elite Wiki blade and the fiberglass xTuff Wiki blade.
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Elite is high grade carbon, more pretty fiber's & less epoxy, Xtuff is slightly lower grade carbon, not as pretty, like flat black, More epoxy to fiber ratio than the elite. So it is a little heavier than the elite.
Xtuff is not fiberglass, it is carbon.
I think we’re getting shafts and blades confused
For a good reason. They can't even get it right on their website. But you are right, the xTuf Wiki blade is a Fiberglass reinforced Blade and therefore heavier than the elite Blade.
It will affects the swing weight of the paddle and obviously, the overall weight. The xTuf shaft on both xTuf Wiki Paddle and Elite Wiki paddle is carbon.
I think Kanalu can do a little better in the naming department
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+1 Burchas. I wasn't confused, but my minimalist style certainly could be confusing.
The additional weight as you pointed out will affect swing weight, but probably have a minimal, if any, impact on shoulder issues due to differences in stiffness between the blades..
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There is a difference in the weight with the Xtuf and the Elite Blade in a Wiki you are looking at 500 grams difference. But with +- diff in Manufacturing it might even be less than 200 grams.
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I think I’ll go with the Elite Wiki 74 when I get the money.
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Has anyone paddled both a Konihi 84 and a Wiki 74?
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I think I’ll go with the Elite Wiki 74 when I get the money.
I think you made the right decision. It’s not like you have many options
Available to you within the system at this range. If there was a Mana 74,
I would tell You go get it.
You already know you are not comfortable with the Konihi so going down
In size means going up in comfort level.
If you’re willing to look outside the system then you have more options
But it is almost certain you’ll have to spend more money for the quality
Since you’ll be buying a whole paddle rather than just a blade.
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Elite is high grade carbon, more pretty fiber's & less epoxy, Xtuff is slightly lower grade carbon, not as pretty, like flat black, More epoxy to fiber ratio than the elite. So it is a little heavier than the elite.
Xtuff is not fiberglass, it is carbon.
I think we’re getting shafts and blades confused. I have the xTuff shaft, which is carbon, but the xTuff Wiki blade is reinforced fiberglass. So, I’m wondering about differences between the carbon Elite Wiki blade and the fiberglass xTuff Wiki blade.
It's been a long time since I had anything to do with the company other than using the paddles, but I think this is atill true: The xTuf shaft is a fiberglass core wrapped with unidirectional carbon. The design gives it early flex until the uni carbon engages and then it's very firm, The standard xTuf is 60% carbon, the xTuf(S) is 70%. Uni gets very stiff very fast. The Elite shaft is 3K Carbon twill instead of Uni. The 90Flex is a layer of glass and the rest carbon, the 100Flex is all carbon. The xTuff blade is fiberglass, or at least it used to be. Elite blades are 100 percent 3K carbon twill.
I paddle a Koni 82 for downwind--it's a very powerful blade if you engage it fully, might not be great for you. The Wiki probably makes more sense.
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Thanks for the explanation, PonoBill. Is this the right order of Kenalu shaft stiffness?
xTuff....xTuff(S)....90Flex....100Flex
flexible..................................stiff
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Thanks for the explanation, PonoBill. Is this the right order of Kenalu shaft stiffness?
xTuff....xTuff(S)....90Flex....100Flex
flexible..................................stiff
That’s right.
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Pretty much. The xTuf(S) is kind of weird in that once it finishes it's initial flex it's almost as stiff as the 90Flex.
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All the Ke Nalu paddles are quite stiff though, compared to some.
I’ve got paddles by Jimmy Lewis and Naish, for instance, that are like noodles compared to my xtuf wiki. Some of my QBs are flexier, too.
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I LOVE KeNalu paddles and I really can't stand "Noodly" paddles (or "noddly anything)
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
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i have wasted a lot of $$ straying from my kenalu mana xtuf---i always return--i have ceased straying
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I’m just going to switch my Konihi to an xTuff shaft. Lane believes the Konihi actually has the softest catch of all the blades.
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coming from a crap paddle, i bot a konihi and loved it, but the mana i bot next beat it out pretty clearly---for other than surfing, the Konihi may shine, but i only surf
i still keep a konihi in fl and it's fine, but the mana is the shit
and spirit, whatever you do, err on the small side with blades--i think burchas would agree---the big bad blades days are long over---smaller with good catch is better than big and dumb
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👍👍👍👍
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I’m just going to switch my Konihi to an xTuff shaft. Lane believes the Konihi actually has the softest catch of all the blades.
It has a difficult catch to set without burying the blade and it is actually more difficult to get a feel for it on a very stiff shaft compared to a slightly softer one. The Xtuf(S) is likely the best combination in that regard.
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I’m just going to switch my Konihi to an xTuff shaft. Lane believes the Konihi actually has the softest catch of all the blades.
If he thinks that he's just using it wrong. If you don't bury a Konihi it doesn't catch well. Bury it, and do the Kalama/Puakea stroke (pushing down with your upper hand, lower arm straight, pull with your core) and it's a catch monster. I have the 95 and the 82 Konihi. When I got back from Maui I didn't take the time to assemble the 82 before my first downwinder and just used the 95. It about killed me. Not only did it feel like it was set in concrete, I pulled myself off the board several times--which really sucks in cold Columbia water. The Mana is much more controlled for catch and can be used in a sloppy manner--more forgiving. I assume the shorter wing is the reason.
An xTuf(S) shaft is very good on a Konihi, but I think it actually increases the catch. Maybe the slight hesitation in flex lets more air get off the blade. Whatever, it works very well. I like the 100Flex on the Mana better, enough so to keep switching back and forth--xTuf(S) when my shoulder is toast, 100Flex when it's better. I've been using these paddles so long an inch of shaft length is noticeable. I set up my Mana too short for my foiling trip to the Oregon Coast. Drove me nuts until I got back to the hotel and the hair dryer. It's been a long time since I used a hair dryer to adjust a KeNalu paddle, and I forgot how long it takes to get it warm enough.
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Thanks, Bill. If I can score a Mana, I’ll get one!