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Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: washingtonsurfer on May 04, 2019, 05:53:48 PM

Title: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: washingtonsurfer on May 04, 2019, 05:53:48 PM
After going out today I noticed water bubbles coming out of the vent plug. First time I've ever noticed it and it's not the first day it's been warm. I checked to make sure it was tight and pulled it out to make sure nothing was obstructing the o-ring. Am I worrying for nothing?
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: Badger on May 04, 2019, 06:36:01 PM
It's normal for a Goretex vent plug to bubble when it gets covered with water but non breathing vent plugs should not bubble.

If it was dry when you looked inside the board then it should be fine. If there was water inside the board then you might have a problem.

Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: washingtonsurfer on May 05, 2019, 01:37:18 PM
I sat it out today with the plug out to see if it was still bubbling and there's definitely water coming out of the vent hole. There's no dings or cracks on the board to let water in so I dont know where the water would have gotten in there. This is on a Sunova Creek.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: Badger on May 05, 2019, 02:07:43 PM
One thing I don't like about the Sunova vent plugs is that there is nothing to prevent someone from putting something into the hole and puncturing the Goretex membrane. You should be able to check the bottom of the plug with a magnifying glass and see if the membrane is punctured. While you're at it, make sure the rubber O ring is not missing.

Check the board for dark areas in the wood veneer that would indicate water ingress. These dark areas might be soft or spongy. Also check closely for cracks. The rails are the most common place for cracks to occur and can be difficult to see through the paint pattern. Your fingernails will often catch on any cracks.

.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: TallDude on May 05, 2019, 08:03:44 PM
My experience tells me the water almost always comes out of the place that it went in. If there is no damage or delam around the outside of the vent base, then it's probably a faulty or damaged vent insert plug. May have been cross threaded. ????   
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: washingtonsurfer on May 06, 2019, 01:25:30 PM
I've checked over the board a few times for tiny dings that I might be missing but haven't found any. I dont think a lot of water got in maybe a few tablespoons came out. What is a good replacement plug? Would it be better to go with a non-venting plug?
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: Badger on May 06, 2019, 03:11:54 PM
When I started standup back in 2013, most companies used non-vented plugs and I never saw any boards with problems from it.

I've been thinking about switching to non vented plugs but haven't done it yet. I guess because I haven't had any problems. All my boards are fine at the moment.

It's easy to find solid plugs to fit Sunova boards online. I did some research a while back and almost ordered some. It's a standard plug size that is used on many things, mostly automotive I think. They don't cost much and even come in different colors.

.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: Califoilia on May 06, 2019, 03:39:56 PM
Another possibility could be over-tightening, and crushing or mis-shaping the O-ring (don't ask me how I know :-[). Once you get it started correctly threaded, gently finger tighten (with a socket only, no wrench attached) until you feel it stop or come up against the O-ring, and then just a quarter turn more or so should be enough to seat everything correctly.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: washingtonsurfer on May 06, 2019, 07:31:18 PM
When I started standup back in 2013, most companies used non-vented plugs and I never saw any boards with problems from it.

I've been thinking about switching to non vented plugs but haven't done it yet. I guess because I haven't had any problems. All my boards are fine at the moment.

It's easy to find solid plugs to fit Sunova boards online. I did some research a while back and almost ordered some. It's a standard plug size that is used on many things, mostly automotive I think. They don't cost much and even come in different colors.

.

If your vented plug started leaking would you replace it with a non-vented? I like the idea that its user error not plug error if I had a non-vented.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: Badger on May 07, 2019, 01:39:23 AM
I don't know. I've brought this subject up a few times and no one has confirmed whether vented plugs are absolutely necessary. I never leave my boards in the sun so I assume I don't need them. I've been hoping someone who builds boards might know the answer.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: eastbound on May 07, 2019, 05:17:16 AM
my vented plugs have never caused a problem--of course, i dont touch them or mess with them

and i have never rinsed a board, ever---and put them in my bags all salty and wet--no problem ever

i weigh all my boards with a good digital baby scale---so if i saw a vent bubbling, i'd get that board directly to the scale to see wuttup

the bubbling could just be normal pressure relief--somthing id want to rule out before messing with and potentially actually damaging the vent

my fanatic aw has a non-vented plug--a relative hassle--gotta adjust before and after flights, and lose it? or over torgue the o-ring? problemo!

never touched my vented plugs--never a hassle--never a problem

could be im just a lucky man (i am)
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: washingtonsurfer on May 07, 2019, 09:10:59 PM
my vented plugs have never caused a problem--of course, i dont touch them or mess with them

and i have never rinsed a board, ever---and put them in my bags all salty and wet--no problem ever

i weigh all my boards with a good digital baby scale---so if i saw a vent bubbling, i'd get that board directly to the scale to see wuttup

the bubbling could just be normal pressure relief--somthing id want to rule out before messing with and potentially actually damaging the vent

my fanatic aw has a non-vented plug--a relative hassle--gotta adjust before and after flights, and lose it? or over torgue the o-ring? problemo!

never touched my vented plugs--never a hassle--never a problem

could be im just a lucky man (i am)
The board weighed 25 lbs without fins. Online says it should weigh a little over 20 lbs. 5lbs of water seems like enough water that it would almost pour out if I pulled the plug out and tipped it upside down.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: blueplanetsurf on May 08, 2019, 12:39:42 AM
Sometimes vent plugs fail and need to be replaced, probably the membrane is compromised.  It's rare but we see it occasionally.
I would let the board fully dry out in a hot/ dry place but not in direct sun and then install a new vent plug.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: Badger on May 08, 2019, 01:37:56 AM
The water won't pour out. The open cell foam holds it like a sponge.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: washingtonsurfer on May 08, 2019, 07:50:31 AM
Sometimes vent plugs fail and need to be replaced, probably the membrane is compromised.  It's rare but we see it occasionally.
I would let the board fully dry out in a hot/ dry place but not in direct sun and then install a new vent plug.
Where would be a good place to let it dry out? It's barely reaching 70° throughout the day where I live in Washington. Inside by a window? Inside my vehicle? (Those are the only hot areas that aren't direct sunlight) Should I leave it vent side up or down? Sorry for all the newbie questions I just dont want to cause any further damage to the board.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: NorthJerzSurfer on May 08, 2019, 08:53:17 AM
if you have a heating room where your boiler is- thats a great place.  I have a whole home dehumidifier next to my boiler- I simply unplug it and let it run like mad and turn up the heat for a while.

remidied the one board that got water in it really quick.  Mine was from an in water ding.  So i wanted it fully dry before sealing the repair.

i have heard people have success with the car with the heat on high if all else fails and have a safe place to have your car idle.



Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: eastbound on May 08, 2019, 09:04:33 AM
5 lbs means it's clearly got water in it.

2 lbs might mean you got a heavy one from that production run--happens

dryout, for me, has always required patience--but i am always drying out after a ding---i have a room that's always hot, and i begin by hanging the board with the ding arranged to be lowest point--so the board drains out the dinghole--i shove toilet paper in to serve as telltale and to (hopefully) dessicant--after appx a week, if there's no more telltale of wet, i flip the board (google boardlady) so the ding is highest--then i leave it again for a week, so moisture can evap up and out of the board--then, if the weights back to normal, i repair--one time i left the board for several weeks before it reverted to nearly original weight

how to drain if in fact your leak is at the vent plug?? not sure

before you do anything rad, i would remove the vent plug, dry the immediate area and shove toilet paper in the hole to see if it saturates.......

Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: washingtonsurfer on May 08, 2019, 11:46:24 AM
Ok I'll probably use my vehicle because all I have is a wood stove in my house for heat and it's way to warm out for that lol. So how hot is too hot? And how long is too long?
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: Badger on May 08, 2019, 12:53:13 PM
I would say it should be warm to the touch but not hot.

.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: supthecreek on May 08, 2019, 01:56:13 PM
Hi washingtonsurfer

I got your email today, and have been off on a mini surf trip with a buddy for a few days, so I missed this.

The goretex vent will bubble if water is on the deck, because a goretex vent is designed to allow the board to breat as in heats and cools.
The problem with a "fixed vent" that must be unscrewed is:
All boards expand and contract.... if no "breathing" vent, the boards get bigger, then smaller.... over and over until the skin cracks.
Picture a a thin piece of metal.... if you bend it back and forth, it will crack, then snap.

The Sunova Goretex vent is designed so the expansion of the interior gas will simply exhaust out the vent, then breath back in when the temp changes again. The gortex lets the vapors pass through the membrane, but not liquid.
Sunova skin is spared the constant flexing that weakens the structure.

The board exhausting vapor will cause bubbles in any water on the deck as it escapes. totally normal.
The wrong thing to do is remove the vent, or tighten it.... just leave it alone, they rarely fail.
I have never heard of something going in that tiny hole and tearing the goretex.

Several questions before you decide anything:
Did you weigh the board when you got it?
What kind of scale do you use?

I have two scales in my bathroom.... hold on, I'll go weigh myself, tick, tock, tick, tock...
ok.... 235 on one scale and 238 on the other scale.... hummm, I weighed 228 yesterday  :-X
meaning 2 things
Scales vary
and.... I'm fat  :-[

ever wonder why you weigh so much at the Doctors?

ok, so here are some possible explanations:
The pics you sent me didn't worry me, I don't think there is any leaking there.

No manufacturer in the world achieves the same weight on every board they produce, and all aspire to keep with in a tolerance of +- 6%

so on a board suppose to weigh 20.5 lbs, so anywhere from 19.3 to 21.8
I have seen only one board that came in noticeably heavier... an 8'10 that weighed more than my 9'4. Unfortunately, sometimes that happens.

All this means is your board could be a bit on the heavy side, and your scale could be on the high side.
The only scale I trust, is a digital shipping scale I use.
Try another scale, to double check the board weight.
Could be you got a great deal on the board cuz it was built heavy.

check for leaks:
Any place that you think could have leaked, place in the sun and after it heats up a bit, pour a little water over suspect area and watch for bubbles there.... not in the vent

Your only problem may be a scale that's off and a board that's a bit overweight.
Since I designed it, overweight seems most likely  ;)

Please keep me posted, and I am sorry for any troubles you may be having!
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: Badger on May 08, 2019, 02:08:33 PM
I think all scales have a way to calibrate them.

I use a 20 pound barbell weight, set it on the scale and calibrate the scale to 20 pounds.

I no longer have that scale. I thought it was pretty accurate.

Body weight can fluctuate quite a bit depending on what you've ingested or excreted so you can't really use that for testing the accuracy of scales.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: TallDude on May 08, 2019, 02:28:18 PM
I had one board (I think it was a 10'6 Riviera) where I unscrewed the vent plug and noticed they had never drilled the base of it into the board. So it was doing nothing. I drilled it out.   
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: washingtonsurfer on May 08, 2019, 04:49:57 PM
Hi washingtonsurfer

I got your email today, and have been off on a mini surf trip with a buddy for a few days, so I missed this.

The goretex vent will bubble if water is on the deck, because a goretex vent is designed to allow the board to breat as in heats and cools.
The problem with a "fixed vent" that must be unscrewed is:
All boards expand and contract.... if no "breathing" vent, the boards get bigger, then smaller.... over and over until the skin cracks.
Picture a a thin piece of metal.... if you bend it back and forth, it will crack, then snap.

The Sunova Goretex vent is designed so the expansion of the interior gas will simply exhaust out the vent, then breath back in when the temp changes again. The gortex lets the vapors pass through the membrane, but not liquid.
Sunova skin is spared the constant flexing that weakens the structure.

The board exhausting vapor will cause bubbles in any water on the deck as it escapes. totally normal.
The wrong thing to do is remove the vent, or tighten it.... just leave it alone, they rarely fail.
I have never heard of something going in that tiny hole and tearing the goretex.

Several questions before you decide anything:
Did you weigh the board when you got it?
What kind of scale do you use?

I have two scales in my bathroom.... hold on, I'll go weigh myself, tick, tock, tick, tock...
ok.... 235 on one scale and 238 on the other scale.... hummm, I weighed 228 yesterday  :-X
meaning 2 things
Scales vary
and.... I'm fat  :-[

ever wonder why you weigh so much at the Doctors?

ok, so here are some possible explanations:
The pics you sent me didn't worry me, I don't think there is any leaking there.

No manufacturer in the world achieves the same weight on every board they produce, and all aspire to keep with in a tolerance of +- 6%

so on a board suppose to weigh 20.5 lbs, so anywhere from 19.3 to 21.8
I have seen only one board that came in noticeably heavier... an 8'10 that weighed more than my 9'4. Unfortunately, sometimes that happens.

All this means is your board could be a bit on the heavy side, and your scale could be on the high side.
The only scale I trust, is a digital shipping scale I use.
Try another scale, to double check the board weight.
Could be you got a great deal on the board cuz it was built heavy.

check for leaks:
Any place that you think could have leaked, place in the sun and after it heats up a bit, pour a little water over suspect area and watch for bubbles there.... not in the vent

Your only problem may be a scale that's off and a board that's a bit overweight.
Since I designed it, overweight seems most likely  ;)

Please keep me posted, and I am sorry for any troubles you may be having!

I hadn't been out for a few days when I noticed the water coming out of the vent that's why it worried me. I LOVE this board! Definitely don't want any delamination or anything like that to be happening.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: baddog on May 12, 2019, 01:11:09 PM
The board weighed 25 lbs without fins. Online says it should weigh a little over 20 lbs...

Listed weights are meaningless.  Gotta weigh your board brand new, so you have an actual baseline.  Bathroom scales are not accurate enough, period.  A cheapo travel scale is a much better option.  If it's feeling heavier, that's a tip off.  If it feels like the balance is off, it's another bad sign.  Have to say though, 25lb seems awfully heavy.

If you took the plug out, and hopefully with the plug recess dry, touch the foam below with a Q-Tip; if it comes back soaked, you've got a problem.

You still haven't mentioned if you checked to see if the Gore-Tex layer is intact???  Use a magnifying glass, but it's the least likely possibility.  Gore-Tex does not bubble water.  If air is bubbling through water in the plug, that's cool.  If water is bubbling out and onto your board and running off, that's not.

Besides what everyone else has posted already, check around any insert and especially the fins and the LiftSUP handle; give them all a good flex, looking for cracks, pinholes or water.  And I hate to mention it, but it's happens a lot, cracks can occur under the traction pad; and that will be a pain to find and fix.
Title: Re: Vent plug bubbling when dry
Post by: blueplanetsurf on May 20, 2019, 05:13:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6_cdksuytE
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