Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => SUP Gear Reviews / Newly Acquired / On Order => Topic started by: Badger on April 20, 2019, 02:54:30 PM
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I've been looking for a bigger more stable board with a bit more glide that I can use on choppy big days and for getting to distant breaks and I think I may have found it with the Tom Carroll Outer Reef 10'6. I just ordered one for $1095 free shipping. I couldn't pass up the price. All sizes are in stock if anyone is interested.
https://shop.surfindustries.com/us/surf/stand-up-paddle-boards/all-rounder/tom-carroll-outer-reef-mx/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEfLo9lZUYo
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I am interested in this model too, but in an 11' length. When you get it, tell us how it was packaged for transit.
Some companies cut costs by skimping on packaging and the sup arrives damaged because of the packaging.
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I'll definitely give a full review when it gets here.
The shipping is my biggest concern, but they are a big company and ship thousands of boards so I expect they know how to ship them properly. I could not find a single bad review.
Of course a lot depends on how well it was packaged in Australia.
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Interested too !
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whats the difference between the MX and the X2 outer reef ?
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whats the difference between the MX and the X2 outer reef ?
The two videos below explain the differences between MX and CX construction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gdp3PkzFv4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stQyKj5nByw
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X2 is epoxy. MX is molded epoxy.
It explains it here. https://www.surfindustries.com/technology/sup-technology.php
The Outer Reef X2 is identical to the newer Outer Reef MX. The only difference is the construction. I'm not sure which is better, but the MX model is considerably less expensive. It appears that the X2 version has been discontinued with only a few left on sale.
The 10'6 Outer Reef X2 is 27.6 lbs. They don't say what the weight is on the MX. I hope it's not heavier.
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Jeez aren’t you the one who thought 32” was too wide for a 12’ 🙄
Heard bad reports about these.
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X2 is epoxy. MX is molded epoxy.
It explains it here. https://www.surfindustries.com/technology/sup-technology.php
The Outer Reef X2 is identical to the newer Outer Reef MX. The only difference is the construction. I'm not sure which is better, but the MX model is considerably less expensive.
The 10'6 Outer Reef X2 is 27.6 lbs. They don't say what the weight is on the MX. I hope it's not heavier.
Along with the review of how it was packaged when you received it, don't forget to weigh it and report back on it's weight.
Since I'm a detailed oriented person, every little detail is important to me when it comes to making decisions.
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Heard bad reports about these.
Do you have a link to those bad reports?
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Thanks Badger and NW , yea I wonder which is better. So it sounds like it comes in 3 constructions. CX MX and X2.
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No, I'm pretty sure it just comes in the MX construction. Last year it was the X2 construction but that model has been discontinued. I could be wrong.
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It's interesting that last years model, which is on sale is $200 more than this year's regular price?
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Jeez aren’t you the one who thought 32” was too wide for a 12’ 🙄
Heard bad reports about these.
Ultimately, if I had a choice I would have gone with 31" to match my other boards. It seems to be a good width for me in the shorter lengths. Stability increases with length, but the side to side motion would stay the same. An extra inch of width will make the Outer Reef a bit more stable and also a bit slower, but I think I can live with it. Plus, the beveled rails are supposed make it plane as if it were a much narrower board so that should add speed.
The reason why I chose a 10'6 and not a 12' is because in order for a 12 footer to have more glide than the 10'6, it would have to be narrower and have different shape characteristics to make up for the slower speed, and I could not find a 12' board with the features I wanted.
Thinking back, when I had the 14' X 30" Search for a couple weeks, I was surprised how unstable it was for a 14 footer. My 28" wide M-14 had almost the same stability. It must be in the shape of the rails. I can see your reasoning behind going 32" for the 12' Point Break Search. I hope it works for you. I can't wait to see it.
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I notice how pronounced the dihedral hull at the bow. Correct me if I'm wrong but I was always under impression that's an attribute of flat water/kind of beginners type of board?
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They are more integrated into the Aussie sup surf scene than the states’ . So on SeaBreeze you’ll find more references to them .... and favorable at that.
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I notice how pronounced the dihedral hull at the bow. Correct me if I'm wrong but I was always under impression that's an attribute of flat water/kind of beginners type of board?
They say it's to help alleviate bow slap in chop which does happen with bigger boards. It's extremely subtle and comes out of the water the moment the board starts to plane. You can see that in the video. I like it.
I don't think Blane would incorporate anything into the design that would interfere with its surfing performance.
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Hypothetic question. For 195/200 lbs beginner - would you suggest 11 or 11'6" ?
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I notice how pronounced the dihedral hull at the bow. Correct me if I'm wrong but I was always under impression that's an attribute of flat water/kind of beginners type of board?
They say it's to help alleviate bow slap in chop which does happen with bigger boards. It's extremely subtle and comes out of the water the moment the board starts to plane. You can see that in the video. I like it.
I don't think Blane would incorporate anything into the design that would interfere with its surfing performance.
Yeah, I’ve got a Gong 12-6 Perv, which is a crossover surf-tour board, and it has this feature too. It works well when paddling, and doesn’t interfere with surf performance because the midpoint of the first foot or so of the nose isn’t in the water when surfing.
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Hypothetic question. For 195/200 lbs beginner - would you suggest 11 or 11'6" ?
The recommended rider weight for the 11' is 198lb or less for beginner/intermediate so the 11 footer would be perfect for someone 200 lbs. The width of 32.5 is also perfect for a beginner.
Not that 11'6 would be bad. It depends on how much stability the person needs, but it probably wouldn't surf as nicely as the 11'.
I was contemplating getting the 10 footer. Even though the recommended rider weight is 154lb or less, 152 liters would still be plenty of volume for my 175 lbs.
The 10'6 has a bit more volume than I need but that and the longer length should provide a little more glide.
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Not that 11'6 would be bad. It depends on how much stability the person needs, but it probably wouldn't surf as nicely as the 11'.
The 10'6 has a bit more volume than I need but that and the longer length should provide a little more glide.
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I'm a bit confused
"11'6 wouldn't surf as nicely as the 11'" vs " the longer length should provide a little more glide"
if the longer board (10'6) would provide more glide (than 10) then why 11'6 wouldn't surf as nicely as 11?
p.s. I'm not nit picking, but trying to figure it out
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Not that 11'6 would be bad. It depends on how much stability the person needs, but it probably wouldn't surf as nicely as the 11'.
The 10'6 has a bit more volume than I need but that and the longer length should provide a little more glide.
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I'm a bit confused
"11'6 wouldn't surf as nicely as the 11'" vs " the longer length should provide a little more glide"
if the longer board (10'6) would provide more glide (than 10) then why 11'6 wouldn't surf as nicely as 11?
p.s. I'm not nit picking, but trying to figure it out
If I weighed 190, the 10'6 would be perfect for me. If I weighed 200, the 11' would be perfect.
I weigh 175 which puts me between sizes. I can go either way. The 10 would surf better, but the 10'6 would provide more glide.
Volume helps glide, but too much volume can hinder surfing. I'm giving up some surfing ability with the 10'6 in order to get into waves early. What concerns me is that it might be too much volume in dicey bigger surf.
One thing that turns me off about the 11'6 is the 33" width. It seems unnecessarily wide which I think might hinder both glide and surfing. I'm not sure what the thinking was behind going wider on the longer boards since being longer should make them more stable to begin with.
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The longer boards will be made for heavier people, which is why they are wider. I suspect that Tom has been hurt by criticisms previously that his board designs were tippy, so he’s compensating.
It’s unusual to get a performance-oriented design in a 33” width. So he may have found a niche.
But 33” is too wide for me, for sure. I’d have bought the 11-6 (if I actually could: I don’t think that in reality they are available in the UK) except for that width. 31-32 would be fine. But I’m not sure that 33” adds much stability over 32 for the vast majority of people, but it certainly makes paddling distances less pleasant.
But maybe if I weighed 250lbs I’d feel differently.
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My mind has been struggling over whether I ordered the right one. I now think that I should have gone with the 10'. It's not the end of the world but I think I would be happier with the lower volume board.
The website says that once you make the order, there is no changing it. I guess that's one of the drawbacks of dealing with big companies.
We'll see how it goes with the 10'6. Maybe it will be alright.
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I think the get in early, catch anything characteristic comes from the added length of the board.
The bit of extra volume on more powerful waves just needs your back foot sufficiently on the tail for turning.
And this length really gives you a nice full quiver compared to your other board’s lengths. You’ll be ready for anything.
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Yes, that's what Blane Chambers said in one of his videos. The way to turn big boards is you have to get your back foot all the way back over the fin. 8)
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@ Badger
Do you have an ETA (estimated time of arrival) for when your Outer Reef will arrive at your place (home or shipping terminal)?
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My account says "Order processed, waiting for shipping".
Once it's shipped, they will give me a tracking number and an ETA.
If it's coming from the warehouse in Atlanta, GA it might be here by the weekend.
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Sweet, need a ride report ,hope you get a few
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Yes, that's what Blane Chambers said in one of his videos. The way to turn big boards is you have to get your back foot all the way back over the fin. 8)
Blane is the man. Oh if I could I would still get my boards from him.
My first sup was a first generation PSH 120l 9-3x28 Ripper.
I could only stand on it in flat water. A hopeless disaster in the ocean.
Sold it and got a 205l Big Easy. Double my minimum volume. This was the stable platform I used to learn on.
By the time I upgraded to smaller boards, the Big Easy was doing most everything even tube riding.
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I just had a chat with support @ GS site and he said 11 ft MX is 11 kilos and X2 is 2.5 kilos heavier because of bamboo inserts.
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I just had a chat with support @ GS site and he said 11 ft MX is 11 kilos and X2 is 2.5 kilos heavier because of bamboo inserts.
Wow, 11 kilos (24.2 lbs) is pretty light for an 11 footer.
Did he have anything else to say?
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I was basically asking about diff between those two (MX and X2) and he reassured me that MX would hold hypothetical 190/200-pounder (me) just fine. BUm I'm still kinda skeptical that board lost 2.5 kilos (5.5 lbs! ) of wood veneer (intended for structural reinforcement) and still "very strong". I understand a desire to bring the price down by simplifying manufacruting process, but would it be still in the same condition as a board with veneer down the road? who knows
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I was basically asking about diff between those two (MX and X2) and he reassured me that MX would hold hypothetical 190/200-pounder (me) just fine. BUm I'm still kinda skeptical that board lost 2.5 kilos (5.5 lbs! ) of wood veneer (intended for structural reinforcement) and still "very strong". I understand a desire to bring the price down by simplifying manufacruting process, but would it be still in the same condition as a board with veneer down the road? who knows
I'll try to get an idea of how strong the MX construction is when I get my board.
200 pounds isn't all that heavy. The bigger boards are intended for heavier riders than you. I wouldn't worry about it.
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I just had a chat with support @ GS site and he said 11 ft MX is 11 kilos and X2 is 2.5 kilos heavier because of bamboo inserts.
Wow, 11 kilos (24.2 lbs) is pretty light for an 11 footer.
The above quoted weight sounds about right to me because the Outer Reef 11' is: 11' x 32.50" x 4.75" @ 185 liters in MX construction.
As an example, my One World 11'1" in ballis tec construction is: 11'1" x 30" x 4.50" @ 173 liters. With the deckpad and adding in my 5 fin configuration of (2, 5"), (2, 4") and (1, 2.25" nubster) fins and the total weight for my One World is 23 lbs.
Subtract the (1, 2.25") nubster center fin, so I can ride my One World as a quad fin setup, the weight comes down to 22 lbs, 14 ozs.
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I was basically asking about diff between those two (MX and X2) and he reassured me that MX would hold hypothetical 190/200-pounder (me) just fine. BUm I'm still kinda skeptical that board lost 2.5 kilos (5.5 lbs! ) of wood veneer (intended for structural reinforcement) and still "very strong". I understand a desire to bring the price down by simplifying manufacruting process, but would it be still in the same condition as a board with veneer down the road? who knows
Remember that the recommended rider weight is "Based On Novice To Intermediate Skill Level". They are well aware that much heavier advanced riders over 230 lbs will be surfing these boards.
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For what its worth, I had asked GSI whether they had any experience with pressure dings in the standing area of MX constructed boards, and their response was that they "have had no issues with the deck". It was in regard to a 10' x 32" Outer Reef which, btw, weighs approx 21.5 lbs in MX.
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@ Badger
Do you have an ETA (estimated time of arrival) for when your Outer Reef will arrive at your place (home or shipping terminal)?
The board is shipped and on it's way. It was picked up on Tuesday with an expected delivery on Monday the 29th.
Right now it's in HASKELL, NJ which is only 4 and a half hours away from NH. It may get here ahead of schedule depending on how many stops the driver has to make.
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I’m really looking forward to hearing about this board. I wish we could get them here, but it seems like all the GSI dealers in the UK are just selling their clothing etc ranges.
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@ Badger
Do you have an ETA (estimated time of arrival) for when your Outer Reef will arrive at your place (home or shipping terminal)?
The board is shipped and on it's way. It was picked up on Tuesday with an expected delivery on Monday the 29th.
Right now it's in HASKELL, NJ which is only 4 and a half hours away from NH. It may get here ahead of schedule depending on how many stops the driver has to make.
I'm looking forward to hearing all the "details" about this board from you. In the other topic thread I started, the Outer Reef is one of the three choices I'm looking at in the 11' range.
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It's Friday morning and the board is in Billerica Massachusetts just an hour from my house but the tracking still shows Monday for the ETA. I hope it's not going to sit there for three days.
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Call the shipping company an ask if you could pick it up at the terminal (if you have time/vehicle to do that of course). I drove to Woosta to pick up my Infinity. Didn't like the idea of 15 ft box would be sitting over the weekend in a warehouse where forklifts operators play NASCAR. Also avoiding one more ride and load/unload to the truck.
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Yeah, I’d go and pick it up. A very large proportion of the delivery dings that occur to boards occur in the final leg.
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There are a number of shipping terminals in Billerica. It's probably at Fedex Freight.
I would try to pick it up but my car has been having problems and I don't feel like being stranded on the side of rt 95 in the rain today. :)
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I’m curious what your initial sense is about the build quality... once you get your mitts on it. The downside with PSH was the heavy hand layups, then the less than stellar Boardworks constructions. If back then there had been a sturdy, molded 21lb Chambers shaped 10 footer, I would have jumped all over it.
Literally : )
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I’m curious what your initial sense is about the build quality... once you get your mitts on it. The downside with PSH was the heavy hand layups, then the less than stellar Boardworks constructions. If back then there had been a sturdy, molded 21lb Chambers shaped 10 footer, I would have jumped all over it.
Literally : )
I'm curious too. That's the first thing I will be checking. I will sound the deck like we do with sailboat decks to check the density and press on it with my thumb in places as well as check overall flex and/or stiffness.
Update - Trailer was unloaded today at freight terminal.
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Seems like just yesterday that Tino (owner of Sunova) and I hand delivered your 14' Search to your door :)
I am interested to see your Outer Reef when I get up your way this year.
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Looking forward to it Rick, and I would love to try the Point Break if you have one to demo. 8)
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Okay, here it is. Fresh off the truck.
It arrived unscathed. It was wrapped in plastic with a sheet of Styrofoam on the bottom. Then cardboard on the top, bottom and sides and all that was inside a pretty rugged cardboard box.
My first impression was that it looks small for a 10'6. Very surfy looking. The nose and tail are very thin and narrow compared to most boards of this length. The beveled rails look nice.
The construction seems plenty strong and solid. A screwdriver bounced high when dropped handle down from a few inches. I could not flex the surface at all when pushing down hard with my thumb. The deck pad and paint job look good. The vent is inside the handle. I love the look and shape. I can't find a thing wrong with this board. It looks as good as any Starboard or other top brand. I'm very happy with the purchase.
I might take it out this afternoon. There's not much for waves but at least I can get the feel of it. I'll do a full review after I surf it a few times.
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Stoked!!!! You are going to have some great sessions on that. After surfing my 11'6 Nalu for the first time in years (Thanks to Cookie's visit), I realized how much fun it was. I used to troll breaks with it and have a blast just going out anywhere. I kinda fell into this only surf at a specific spot or paddle distance on my unlimiteds routine. That in between surf & cruise board really interests me more now.
I'll wait for your report.....
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Looks awesome... shape... graphics... simplicity
Can you share what it weighs in at? and a pic of the rocker?
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Stoked!!!! You are going to have some great sessions on that. After surfing my 11'6 Nalu for the first time in years (Thanks to Cookie's visit), I realized how much fun it was. I used to troll breaks with it and have a blast just going out anywhere. I kinda fell into this only surf at a specific spot or paddle distance on my unlimiteds routine. That in between surf & cruise board really interests me more now.
I'll wait for your report.....
Im going through the EXACT same thing now. got WAY to into surfing and forgot how fun a big board trolling and covering some distance for waves is. Especially in summer
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Great looking board, and it’s lovely to see Blane’s innovations again. The bottom of that looks very interesting indeed. Looking forward to hearing all about it. There’s a Loose Leaf V1 going for a very good price here, and I’m tempted, although it is very heavy for its size; must be lined with lead.
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Great looking board. Nice coloring on it too. Thanks for taking pictures of the unboxing. Looking forward to more comments from you on this board.
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Looks nice, hows the weight feel ?
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It feels pretty light. I'm guessing it's around 25 pounds maybe less. My bathroom scale died and I'm waiting for another one to show up at the dump.
It will be a couple of days before I have time to get out on the water.
Here's a rocker shot. Not the best angle. I wasn't low enough. I'll try to get a better pic tomorrow.
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That’s a Blane Chambers rocker, for sure.
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Sweet, I really like that thinned out nose
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Go hang out at the dump and get that scale : )
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Nice broadside photo shot of it. Shows enough to see the rocker.
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Go hang out at the dump and get that scale : )
When you and Ocean Addict chatted with the guy on the website he said the 10 footer was 21.5 pounds and the 11 footer was 24.2 pounds. If those numbers are correct, that should put the 10'6 under 23 pounds. The board didn't feel heavy at all so that sounds about right.
I'll try to find a scale. I want to know the weight as well.
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Sweet looking board there Badger.
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...and with fins its prob 25 ish, so you're spot on.
Maybe its better not to have a scale in the house.... speaking for myself...
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I was eyeing this board which is sold locally. So so construction, but I like the shape. Not as thought out as the Tom Carroll hull wise, but similar in use. Good price.
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@ TallDude
I've seen this 10'6" VESL board in a YouTube video. The video for it is below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=539ilvRt95s
And it does come in a 11' length also.
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I just went for a short flatwater paddle in the river on the Outer Reef. The board is very stable just as I expected. Even though water temps are still in the upper 40's, I didn't bother to wear a wetsuit and just wore my regular clothes and bare feet.
It's fast for a 32" wide 10'6. The slight semi displacement nose actually does part the water a bit, but I don't think that will interfere with how it surfs as it will be out of the water once the board starts to plane. It tracked along well and has excellent glide. It will definitely catch waves way early. The volume feels just right at 165 liters.
I didn't stay out long. I'm not into flatwater anymore. These days, all I want to do is surf. Looks like we might have some waist to chest high waves coming on Monday and Tuesday.
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@ TallDude
I've seen this 10'6" VESL board in a YouTube video. The video for it is below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=539ilvRt95s
And it does come in a 11' length also.
That's their all-arounder model in the video. Their Outerbanks model is more surf shaped, thinner and a little narrower I think?
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I just went for a short flatwater paddle in the river on the Outer Reef. The board is very stable just as I expected. Even though water temps are still in the upper 40's, I didn't bother to wear a wetsuit and just wore my regular clothes and bare feet.
It's fast for a 32" wide 10'6. The slight semi displacement nose actually does part the water a bit, but I don't think that will interfere with how it surfs as it will be out of the water once the board starts to plane. It tracked along well and has excellent glide. It will definitely catch waves way early. The volume feels just right at 165 liters.
I didn't stay out long. I'm not into flatwater anymore.
Thanks for taking your Outer Reef out for a flatwater paddle. I can glean some info on it from your comments. You're the only person who I know of who owns an OR here on the Zoner site.
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Is VESL the same as ISLE ? They seem very similar .
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I don't think so. VESL is produced by the Paddle Surf Warehouse as their house brand. The guys at PSW are pretty surf savvy. Their shapes are an evolution of what people like and what works. They have a standard all-around line, but their surf shapes are almost exactly what I would want. They vacuum bag with a carbon /veneer composite, but no PVC sandwich. They sort of took over the Riviera's spot as far as local popularity, and the right price point.
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@ TallDude
I surfed on over to the VESL site and saw the 10'6" Outer Banks model you mentioned in a previous post. I took a loo at the hybrid design and the board has 3 fin boxes.
But I also ran across another 10'6" model, the Paddle Surf Performer. It does not look like it has the hybrid design and is more tuned for surfing the waves, but I think it might do well for flat water paddling. And what really caught my eye, it has 4 fin boxes. The link to it is below.
https://veslpaddleboards.com/paddle-boards/sup-surf/vesl-paddle-surf-performer-series-10-6-x-32-wide-sup.html
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@ Badger
I forgot to ask you this, but when you took your new Outer Reef for a quick flat water paddle, did you paddle it with one single fin or did you paddle it with a 2 + 1 fin setup?
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I had all three fins installed.
The side bites are very small, typical of many boards this size. They are FCS II so they just snap in without the need for an Allen tool.
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Badger, did she paddle pretty straight ?
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Yes, it tracked well. I think the bottom contours helped this, especially the V in the nose. I doubt this will in any way inhibit how it surfs but I won't know for sure until we get some waves.
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The vent is inside the handle.
You know I'm a stickler for details. ;)
If you need to replace the screw in vent plug inside the handle for whatever reason, can you easily get to it and replace it?
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It's a "DF Sports Air Vent". All I could find on the internet about it is this Zone thread from 2015. No website or anything else.
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,26695.0.html
The top of the threaded plug measures one inch in diameter. I took it out and inspected it. Everything looked clean and dry. It appears to have a membrane but for some reason, light won't shine through the plug. It has two O rings, one on the bottom and one above the threads, which I lubed with silicone grease before re-installing.
I've always been leery of vented plugs even though I've never had one fail.
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@ Badger
Thanks for taking the picture of the vent plug. Hope the vent plug works like it is supposed to. Keep an eye on it and report back if you have problems with it.
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I've run across that vent plug before
1) its a non standard thread So DON'T LOSE THE PLUG
2) IMHO Do not mess with that just let it do its job Maybe take it out once a year to relube the oRings
Just my 2 cents
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
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@ Badger
I would imagine if you ever have problems with your Outer Reef air vent plug, Global Surf Industries should have them if you need a replacement.
I do not like having "all of my eggs in one basket" so to speak. So I did a little "digging" on that DF Sports Air Vent plug. Just in case my final choice is the Outer Reef 11'.
If you ever need a replacement DF Sports Air Vent plug for your Outer Reef and Global Surf Industries doesn't carry them anymore, another place that has them (at the time of this posting) is SupATX. Not sure if it is the same size, but I'm guessing it is. If not sure, call SupATX and get in touch with one of their customer service reps.
http://checkout.supatx.com/replacement-vent-plug-free-shipping.html
And if I do choose the Outer Reef 11', I'd get a second DF Sports Air Vent plug from Global Surf Industries as a backup should something go wrong with the original plug.
As they say; "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it". ;)
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Thanks for finding that Mr Wing. 8)
It looks like the same exact plug. I bookmarked the link for future reference.
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Thanks for finding that Mr Wing. 8)
It looks like the same exact plug. I bookmarked the link for future reference.
Don't thank me. Thank yourself because you posted the picture of the DF Sports Air Vent Plug for us (me) to see. Without the picture of the vent plug, I would not have known what the vent plug looked like. Once I knew what the vent plug looked like, I was "like a K9 bloodhound hot on the scent trail". ;D
And I also bookmarked the link............for future reference. ;)
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You should BUY ONE now..... it's only $9.00
That won't seem like much if you have an issue, and they are "out of stock" :)
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Good thinking Rick.
Okay. Done.
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@ Badger
I'm going to revive this thread after a week. I've got a question which (I think) you have not answered since I cannot find it in your comments in this topic thread or in your surfing report topic.
Did you get a chance to weigh your Outer Reef with all three fins attached?
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NW, I would like to know that too. I don't have a scale at the moment but I'm guessing 23 - 24 pounds.
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Is it going to need some rail tape ?
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Funny you should say that. I just finished taping it.
I'm not sure I like the black. White might have looked better. Also the black gets hot.
I tried the clear and it looked terrible. It had hundreds of micro bubbles that could not be rubbed out. I put it on dry. I doubt the other methods would have done any better. Clear only works well on a glossy surface.
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I really like the broadside picture shot of your OR when it was enlarged to 1526 x 1309 pixels. Really shows the rocker.
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Yes, that thing is sweet !
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how was it putting on with the beveled rail ?
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Taping around the beveled rail was slightly more challenging than a round rail. You have to go slow and make the tape conform to the rail as you go or you might get air pockets. When you get an air pocket, you have to pull back the tape and smooth it out with your hand. I decided not to use the wet method because I don't think the tape would want to conform to the rail if it was slippery.
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Try using a glassing squegee to press it on.
I have done 3-4 now with this method and barely get a bubble. The Texture of RS pro ruins the squeegee for glassing- but they are maybe 99 cents and do an amazing job.
(Note half moon in center from the board rail)
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I've done 8 or 9 boards now and have used lots of tools like that to rub out the bubbles. In this case I think it was the surface texture of the flat paint that prevented the clear tape from sticking properly at least aesthetically.
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From another thread.....
I just bought a 4 3/4" +- FCS II Thruster set for the Outer Reef. This should speed it up a bit. I also bought an inexpensive 6 inch Futures center fin just to play around with and see how it affects it.
It came with a big 9 inch longboard fin with two small quad rears and it felt over finned. I've never understood the reasoning behind having big fins on longer boards. I don't think board length affects fin dynamics all that much, at least for the way I surf.
The ad copy for the Outer Reef states... " custom 9″ TCPS single fin that’s big enough to offer an efficient flat-water stroke rate, while still allowing for easy turning."
So if you don't care about flat water tracking...
Also, how big (tall/deep) are the quad rears that came with the board? Interesting to know if those supplied are the same size as the "recommended" 4.26" quad rears that you are urged to buy separately.
The quad rears that came with the board are 4.26". I guess they're not really that small. What bothers me is that they are rears when I would think they should be fronts. There must be a difference or they wouldn't call them different names.
So this is what I ordered. Technically not an actual Thruster set. The blue and white should go well with the board.
4.48 inch FCS II quad fronts. https://www.surffcs.com/collections/replacements/products/replacement-fcs-ii-performer-fins?variant=7543211982909
4.78 inch FCS II Performer PC Longboard center fin. https://www.surffcs.com/collections/water-sports-longboard/products/fcs-ii-performer-pc-longboard-centre-fin
6 inch Futures Thermotech Performance center fin. https://futuresfins.com/surfboard-fins/thermotech-performance-6-0.html
I can always throw on the 9 inch and pop off the side bites for flatwater.
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After surfing the Outer Reef a few times, I'm still happy with the purchase but there are a few things about the design that I would change.
First, it has too much volume. Being 175 pounds, this has been a problem with every board I've ever bought but even more so with big boards. It seems to be an industry wide misconception that big boards need to have a lot of volume. I suppose part of the intention behind it might be to improve flatwater paddling. For surfing, I think it would benefit this design if it had 10 or 20 liters less volume. Yes, it might leave some heavier riders out of the picture, but it would surf better for the majority of riders and still be able to paddle distances fairly easy.
The displacement Vee shape in the nose is more pronounced than it has to be and may not even be necessary. It also detracts from the look of the board.
The arch bar on the tail on this particular board was installed an inch off center. I haven't used it yet so I don't know how much affect it will have on controlling the board but the flaw will always bother me.
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Badger, thanks for starting this thread.
I like looking at guild factor. This website gives a rough guide:
https://www.supconnect.com/tips/volume-in-stand-up-paddle-surfboards (https://www.supconnect.com/tips/volume-in-stand-up-paddle-surfboards)
Basically says:
a beginner should have a guild factor (gf) = 2
intermediate (gf) = 1.7
advanced (gf) = 1.3
Earlier in the thread, OceanAddict asked about a beginner board for someone 200 lbs (91kg). The 11' was recommended, which would give a gf = 2.03.
For Badger (175#) who is 80 kg, the 10'6" has a gf = 2.06. His other boards JL has a gf = 1.43, and his Sunova Flow has a gf = 1.48. He contemplated ease of use & glide, versus surf ability. The 152L 10' Outer Reef would have given him a gf = 1.9. Whereas the 152L 10' Outer Reef would be in the intermediate range for a 195# rider (gf=1.71). The 145L Deep Dogman 10'2" x 29" model would give Badger a gf=1.81. And the 133L Deep Jackson Close 10'1" x 30" x 4" model would give Badger a gf = 1.66.
The only comment I would have is the industry in the last decade has moved to wider boards, which adds volume. My guess is this was to make it easier for the entry level paddler. For SUP surfing, I prefer narrower (i.e. 29-30").
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It came with a big 9 inch longboard fin with two small quad rears and it felt over finned. I've never understood the reasoning behind having big fins on longer boards. I don't think board length affects fin dynamics all that much, at least for the way I surf.
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The quad rears that came with the board are 4.26". I guess they're not really that small. What bothers me is that they are rears when I would think they should be fronts. There must be a difference or they wouldn't call them different names.
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Yeah, generally, people would use quad fronts in a 2+1 setup, at least for surfing moderate and smaller waves.
Quad fronts are usually flat inside foil while quad rears are a 50/50 foil.
The flat inside foil sidebites are more turny/snappy but have more drag and on bigger faster waves can make a board twitchy.
The 50/50 foil sidebites have less drag and are less twitchy on bigger faster waves - I've read that is what they use at Mavericks, for example. I've pretty much verified this over the last couple of months of surfing bigger, faster storm surf.
So, for flat paddling the quad rears would make sense, since less drag - also less drag for catching a wave but
not as turny/snappy for smaller wave surfing.
Always dealing with the trade off - flat water paddling and easier take off versus on the wave surfing.
I'm almost always trying to noseride - so another issue into the mix. In my case, a larger middle fin with smaller site bites works pretty well & for bigger faster waves - 50/50 sides. I have some real small ones that can help a narrow (front to back) bigger fin be able to hold a bottom turn.
Also, I've found that fatter foil fins seem to paddle slower (more drag) than thinner foil fins.
(but people say fatter foiled fins turn more easily and they probably do). If it is crowded (and it often is where I surf) I like a thinner foil (and smaller sides) for faster paddling speed to help me catch waves more easily.
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sflinux, thanks for going to the trouble of posting that. Very Helpful. I need to incorporate the GF into my board purchases more.
If I had a choice I would have preferred a narrower width but the 32" does come in handy in rough conditions.
I probably should have gone with the 10' Outer Reef but I'm still happy with the 10'6. If anyone wants a brand new 10'6 Outer reef with RSPro, I'll sell this one for $900. Then I can order the 10'.
Subber, the FCS II quad rears on the Outer Reef are flat sided which makes me think they are probably fine to use, but it still makes me wonder why they are labeled rears. The JL quad rears on my Super Frank and Kinetic Racing quad rears on my Flow are 50/50 and I like how they ride.
I haven't surfed for a couple of weeks and was dying to get out this morning so it took it out in some knee to thigh high waves with some heavy offshore winds blowing 20+ mph at a slight angle to the break causing some small chop.
The board handled the conditions really well. I doubt I would have been able to catch any waves or paddle against that wind with my shorter boards. The Vee in the nose actually seemed to help the board cut through the chop. It does look different but doesn't adversely affect the way it surfs at all. I think I'll eventually get used to the way it looks and grow to like it over time.
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Hot session today. Mid 80's. Instant summer after a long cold spring and I'm not used to it. The water is still cold but I was sweating in my 3/2. I had to keep jumping in the water to cool off.
Knee to thigh high. I tried the 6 inch center fin and it worked great. I doubt I will ever go back to the stock 9 inch. The board felt more fluid. Nice smooth turns. It feels a little faster. Less worry of the fin hitting bottom or catching on rocks.
I'm totally over any doubts I had about the Vee in the nose. Blane Chambers shaped it that way for reason and it works. It cuts through chop with ease. It keeps the board going straight when paddling into waves. It adds buoyancy when you want to power paddle those last few strokes into the wave from the nose. When on the wave and you stand forward of the handle, it holds a nice steady line just like TC does in the video at 1:01. I'm liking this board more each time I use it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEfLo9lZUYo
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@ Badger
Just curious.
Since you seemed to have had a good session with it in knee to thigh high waves, have you now changed your mind about selling your 10'6" Outer Reef in favor of the 10' Outer Reef?
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No, I think I would still sell it and get the 10'.
Six inches shorter and 13 less liters would be perfect, but the extra volume of the 10'6 does not detract from the surfability much and gives it the advantage of slightly more glide. I think I will always lean towards the 10' but no so much that I would be disappointed with the 10'6.
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I've been looking for a bigger more stable board with a bit more glide that I can use on choppy big days and for getting to distant breaks...
What do you think you'll gain with the 10' version? Surly not more stability and glide.
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I've been looking for a bigger more stable board with a bit more glide that I can use on choppy big days and for getting to distant breaks...
What do you think you'll gain with the 10' version? Surly not more stability and glide.
I wouldn't gain a lot, but 13 liters less volume might make it a little more surfy allowing me to sink the rails a little deeper which would make it a little more maneuverable and slightly less threatening to others in the line up. These are very subtle differences. Each length has it's advantages.
I'm not bummed out with the 10'6 at all. I'm the type of person who, if the differences were major it would really bother me, but in this case, I'm cool with it. 8)
The 10'6 is going to open up a lot of spots that can't easily be surfed on shorter boards. A great way to escape the crowds and have all the waves to yourself.
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...if the differences were major it would really bother me, but in this case, I'm cool with it. 8)
I think you got it right the first time if in fact you are paddling it to distant spots. I spent a month
in a spot requiring 2 mile paddle out, I could have used those extra liters and inches on my 10 footer.
Otherwise, selling it only to get the 10' for a minor bump in performance seems like a lot of effort.
If you do go that route, would be interesting to learn if you think it was worth it in hindsight.
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Badger, That's a quick bail; you were about the be the public break-thru. I wonder what he meant by 'hindered by their equipment'? Guys like him could surf sheets of plywood.
I figure most people I see, self-included, are limited by athletism, talent/skill, and time-on-the-water. We have a guy here that surfs a no-name, 11' log like he's surfed Huntington Pier the last 30 yrs... Some got it.
Jim
(removed an unkind comment I should have posted)
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...if the differences were major it would really bother me, but in this case, I'm cool with it. 8)
I think you got it right the first time if in fact you are paddling it to distant spots. I spent a month
in a spot requiring 2 mile paddle out, I could have used those extra liters and inches on my 10 footer.
Otherwise, selling it only to get the 10' for a minor bump in performance seems like a lot of effort.
If you do go that route, would be interesting to learn if you think it was worth it in hindsight.
Well, Badger, if you want it, you want it. But the 10ft is apparently the same width and thickness as the 10-6, so you’d only be losing 6” of length going to the 10. I doubt that would make much difference to the performance of the board. If the 10ft was 30” or 31” wide (rather than 32) and, say, a quarter inch thinner as well then it might make a noticeable difference. But just 6” of length? I’d rather have it for the long paddle-outs. Whether it’s 10 or 10-6 you aren’t going to be surfing it like it was an 8ft x 27” board anyway.
So I reckon you got the right one, personally.
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Badger I can see your point about the 10’, but your points of reference for surfing sups are 7’6 and 8’10. I imagine that’s hard to shake when you’re suddenly on a 10’6. I think you made a great choice for a quiver addition on the lengthier end of the spectrum.
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Yeah, I'm confident that I got the right board. I wasn't really going to make an effort to sell it. I was just throwing that out there in the post to see if anyone might be interested.
Both the 10' and the 10'6 are 4 1/2 inches thick. It's not so much the volume but how high the deck is above the water. That probably wouldn't change much with the shorter board.
All this going back and forth between the 10'6 and the 10' has helped confirm that I made the right decision with the 10'6. I often have to do this after major purchases to set it right in my mind. Everyone's input has been very helpful. That's the great thing about forums.
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I had an awesome waist high session this morning and got to try the new thruster set up. It surfs much better this way. The board is noticeably faster and turns sharper with these fins, more like the shorter boards I'm used to. I have a lot more control of the board so less worry about using it in a crowded line up compared to the the stock fin set up. It doesn't feel like a big board at all.
The 32" width provides more stability than I need most of the time. I think 30" would be perfect for most conditions and would no doubt add some speed but I'm thankful for the extra width when conditions get difficult which is the main reason I bought the board. Overall, I still love the board and have no complaints. I can't wait to get it out in some overhead waves.
The fins I'm using are FCS II Performer PC, XL (4 3/4") center fin with matching quad fronts, Large (4 1/2").
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Is it tippier with those fins ?
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I didn't notice any change in stability.
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Hi Badger
I have boards the sizes your talking about. A different brand.
I have the 10'6 at 158 liters the 10' @ 150 liters and now another
10' at 125 liters. All boards under 30" width. All boards carbon builds.
I weigh 20 to 30 pounds more than you.
The smallest liter wise is the best. I can paddle in wind, down the beach a mile
or so to surf. It has the bow like the outer reef which I see works really well.
Maybe consider a smaller 10'er. If you can't find the pop out, then go custom.
All of these (my boards) are the high end carbon pop outs. To me, worth the extra
cost for the build.
My suggestion keep the 10'6. Look at a smaller volume wise 10'er or get
the OR 10'er. My larger 10'er's don't see much sun anymore. They were and are
fun, but I found something better.
You know this won't be the last one. Not for me either. I have
a point break inbound. Totally different board.
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The smallest liter wise is the best. I can paddle in wind, down the beach a mile
or so to surf. It has the bow like the outer reef which I see works really well.
That sounds interesting. Who makes it? I haven't seen any other boards with a similar nose. Can you post a photo so we can compare the two?
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Picture Attached
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Thanks for the pic. 2019 Starboard Longboard. Double concave to Vee in the nose. Yes, it really is very similar. I had a look on the website and watched the videos. Pretty cool. 8)
The Outer Reef has a slightly more pronounced Vee but other than that, it's the same idea. Good to see other shapers are using it.
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UPDATE - I'm still liking the Outer Reef. I've had about eight sessions so far. I love the way it surfs. It gets into waves early and is super stable. It probably has more stability than I need most of the time. I think the only things I would change would be to decrease the width from 32" to 30" and lower the volume by taking a half inch off the thickness. The extra width seems to slow the board down just a bit and the added stability isn't really necessary in normal conditions. There were a few choppy sessions though where the stability did come in handy and the slightly slower speed gives it some added control on bigger days.
The board is still really fun on small days and it's often the board of choice when I want that extra glide and early wave entry. It's is easy to control allowing me to weave my way around the other surfers with confidence. When the waves are steep enough to get back on the tail, it feels like a much shorter board than you would expect from a 10'6.
Overall, it's a really fun all around board.
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Badger how is GSI's 'MX' construction holding up, durability-wise and appearance/wear - wise?
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The construction seems rock solid. I haven't dropped it on the rocks yet but I think it would survive a drop better than most. The paint job is also well done and rugged. So far it only has one tiny scratch near the nose where it grazed the pavement last week. It's amazing how they can build it so strong and still keep the board relatively lightweight. I haven't weighed it yet but I'm confident it's under 25 pounds.
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Cool. Thanks. The original x2 construction is touted as tough (and is heavy-ish). I’m glad the lighter, newer mx is holding up well.