Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: Night Wing on April 20, 2019, 08:44:08 AM
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I've been toying with the idea of getting a "guest" sup so some of my friends can go flat water paddling and also do some sup surfing (if they are adventurous enough) with me. ;) Nothing is set in stone at this point in time.
I've been looking at production made, not custom made, sups. I've also got some "wants & needs" for my choices. They are:
1) Length between 10'10" & 11'2"
2) Width between 31" & 32.50"
3) Thickness between 4" to 4.75"
4) Volume between 175 to 190 liters (or there abouts)
5) At least 3 fin boxes
6) Durable construction
By doing lots of research, I've come down to three choices (at this point). They are the NSP Allrounder 10'11" in Cocoflax construction, Naish 11'0" Nalu GS construction and the Tom Carroll Outer Reef in MX construction. The links to all three are below for their specifications and where applicable, the construction links (I can find) as well.
For the NSP Allrounder:
https://www.nspsurfboards.com/product/cocoflax-allrounder/
https://www.nspsurfboards.com/new-cocoflax-2019/
The one big advantage why I made the NSP Allrounder 10'11" my "leading" choice is because it has 5 fin boxes and I love the versatility and customization I can do with 5 fin boxes in both flat water and in the small to medium type of waves on the upper Texas coast where I sup surf. And the 4.06" thickness is an added bonus. At 186 liters of volume with a 4.06" thickness at it's thickest part, it has to have thinned out rails so surfing this board should be pleasurable.
I don't know anything about Cocoflax construction so I'm a little in the dark about this type of construction.
For the Naish Nalu 11'0"
https://www.naishsurfing.com/product/nalu-110-gs/
I think the GS construction would be better for the "everyday bumps and knocks" (dings) if you get my drift. It has 3 fin boxes.
For the Tom Carroll Outer Reef
https://shop.surfindustries.com/us/surf/stand-up-paddle-boards/all-rounder/tom-carroll-outer-reef-mx/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gdp3PkzFv4
The Outer Reef also has 3 fin boxes The physical weight of the 11' Outer Reef in MX construction is "not" listed. However, an older 11' Outer Reef in CX construction is a heavy 30 lbs. I'm guessing the MX construction might be near 30 lbs also. But the guest board will always have two people around so this heavy weight will be discounted with help from the second person.
The main drawback to the Outer Reef is there is no US dealer so shipping this board from Australia or wherever they ship this board from, the shipping cost might be as high as the cost of the board itself.
So there you have it. Any comments are welcome both pro and con.
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You are eliminating a lot of nice boards by not accepting 10'6 into your size range. It's the most common size and is a good size for what you are looking for.
As boards get longer than 10'6, they become more difficult to surf, yet 10'6 is still long enough to be good for flatwater.
A 10'6 would also add a mid sized board to your quiver. You might end up surfing it more than your 11'1.
Why have a board that is going to sit around waiting for guests? Get something that you will use as well.
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I have the NSP 10’11” in Elements construction, It’s my do everything board. If you can find my posts on here you can see me on it on a few small waves and some shots of the rails.
Let me know what you want to know about it.
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I just checked the GSI website and it shows the Outer Reef - MX 10'6 in stock and on sale for $1095 with free shipping to NH. The MX is last years model.
No one is available to talk to being the weekend. I'll check back during the week and see if this is true. If so, I think I'll order one. I really like those beveled rails.
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Winger... I think Badger nailed it: get second for yourself. Most civilians I have seen renting them hardly know front from the back ...much less '5 fins'. If it is for 'anybody' that shows up - then I'd get a BIC or something similar - just not some rotomolded POS. Maybe even a 'Wavestorm" from Cosco via. Craigslist.
Get something better if you're planning on becoming an evangelist, but still pretty sturdy - have you ever seen 'real beginners' fall? I have often taken a second board to the beach, but only had one young guy from OH show any overt interest. He stayed with it for about a half hour doing 'man-overboard' drills*. Still, it's good to let people try.
Jim
*he might have been watching me - thinking that's the way it is done?
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My opinion, which won't be popular, has been well vetted. Get yourself a high quality inflatable, like a Red Paddle 10'6".
I have a little beach house on the Outer Banks of NC, and we have a bit of a quiver. In that quiver are a few boards we share with the neighbors that serve as "guest boards". These boards have taught a lot of people how to surf, have allowed flat water paddles in the sound, and have even done some light down wind runs both ocean and sound side. They have also been beaten to death and have attempted to do the same to their newby users. New users end up dropping, running aground, and otherwise damaging hard boards as they usually lack a surfing background. They also get hit and run over and injured by these boards causing, at least, a temporary halt to the fun.
A high quality inflatable is very hard to damage, and doesn't hurt when it hits you. They good ones surf well enough to entertain and they paddle nicely enough on flat water.
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You are eliminating a lot of nice boards by not accepting 10'6 into your size range. It's the most common size and is a good size for what you are looking for.
As boards get longer than 10'6, they become more difficult to surf, yet 10'6 is still long enough to be good for flatwater.
A 10'6 would also add a mid sized board to your quiver. You might end up surfing it more than your 11'1.
Why have a board that is going to sit around waiting for guests? Get something that you will use as well.
You live on the East Coast and the state of New Hampshire is my guess so your state borders the Atlantic ocean. I live near the upper Texas coast which borders the Gulf of Mexico.
Both a 11' board and a 10'6" board will do flat water paddling so we're in agreement. But sup surfing here on the upper Texas coast, the 11' board will have a slight advantage over a 10'6" board. I'll explain in the next paragraph.
Your "small" waves off the coast of New Hampshire are "taller" in height than our "medium" sized waves we have here on the upper Texas coast. In order to surf the waves in our location, it takes boards with a higher volume liter wise. So a 11' board will so slightly better than a 10'6" board.
To make my point, take a look at the video in the link below. And the guy in the video states you need a board with more volume for our type of waves we generally run into. And just look at the waves he ran into when the wave height waves which were forecasted, were wrong since they were smaller in height.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3ynBP6fQNQ
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I have the NSP 10’11” in Elements construction, It’s my do everything board. If you can find my posts on here you can see me on it on a few small waves and some shots of the rails.
Let me know what you want to know about it.
If you can find the link or links to those posts of your's concerning the NSP Allrounder 10'11", I would love to see them. In the meantime, I'll see if I can find them.
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Winger... I think Badger nailed it: get second for yourself. Most civilians I have seen renting them hardly know front from the back ...much less '5 fins'. If it is for 'anybody' that shows up - then I'd get a BIC or something similar - just not some rotomolded POS. Maybe even a 'Wavestorm" from Cosco via. Craigslist.
Get something better if you're planning on becoming an evangelist, but still pretty sturdy - have you ever seen 'real beginners' fall? I have often taken a second board to the beach, but only had one young guy from OH show any overt interest. He stayed with it for about a half hour doing 'man-overboard' drills*. Still, it's good to let people try.
I did a lot more digging this afternoon on the NPS Allrounder 10'11" and I ran into this video below. The title is wrong since it supposed to show a cocomat 10'11" Allrounder. But in the video, it is cocoflax Allrounder 10'11". When the guys turns over the board to show the underside of the board, it has the initials CFX which stands for cocoflax construction and when the camera pans downward, it shows 3 fin boxed and not 5 fin boxes. Bummer! :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL_5wOUmv48
Still, one has to look on the bright side and 3 fin boxes are better than 1 fin box. ;) And it meets my criteria of 3 fin boxes.
When I go to the beach, I only take one board. I never take two boards. This "guest" board is for when I take someone with me to go sup surfing. As an example. Our youngest niece, when she visits my wife and me, lives in Fort Worth, Texas which is 250 miles north of me. She water skiis, snow skies, etc. This would be a good "guest" board for her. She would ride with me for the 117 miles to Surfside, Texas from our home.
And I have some friends who would like to go with me, but since some of them are "balanced challenged", they need a wide board with good volume in it for our smallish type of waves.
Now, I'm old school so to speak. When I was 15 years old, I learned to surf on a 11' surf longboard. I'm a longboarder at heart. And I really like my 11' One World.
I'll give you an analogy. When I was about 16 years old, my parents told me I needed a formal suit which was fine with me. But I'm picky when it comes to "shoes". The most comfortable dress shoes I found at that age of 16 were.......dress penny loafers. Like wearing a nice comfortable set of slippers. My feet LOVE penny loafers.
I've been buying dress penny loafers all my life. I didn't care if penny loafers went "out of style" decades ago. My feet being "comfortable" was more important to me than "style". I've been wearing dress penny loafers with my dress suits for 53 years now (and counting).
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You are eliminating a lot of nice boards by not accepting 10'6 into your size range. It's the most common size and is a good size for what you are looking for.
As boards get longer than 10'6, they become more difficult to surf, yet 10'6 is still long enough to be good for flatwater.
A 10'6 would also add a mid sized board to your quiver. You might end up surfing it more than your 11'1.
Why have a board that is going to sit around waiting for guests? Get something that you will use as well.
You live on the East Coast and the state of New Hampshire is my guess so your state borders the Atlantic ocean. I live near the upper Texas coast which borders the Gulf of Mexico.
Both a 11' board and a 10'6" board will do flat water paddling so we're in agreement. But sup surfing here on the upper Texas coast, the 11' board will have a slight advantage over a 10'6" board. I'll explain in the next paragraph.
Your "small" waves off the coast of New Hampshire are "taller" in height than our "medium" sized waves we have here on the upper Texas coast. In order to surf the waves in our location, it takes boards with a higher volume liter wise. So a 11' board will so slightly better than a 10'6" board.
To make my point, take a look at the video in the link below. And the guy in the video states you need a board with more volume for our type of waves we generally run into. And just look at the waves he ran into when the wave height waves which were forecasted, were wrong since they were smaller in height.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3ynBP6fQNQ
Prone board volume and SUP board volume are two entirely different things that have absolutely nothing to do with one another.
I agree with your choice for going longer for your weaker waves, but it's not the high volume of the longer board that gives you more glide, it's the longer waterline. Excess volume just adds to the thickness of the board and has no added benefit for lighter riders such as you and I.
I looked into GSI. It appears to be a good company. I couldn't find a single bad review. So I went ahead and ordered a 10'6 Outer Reef MX through the website.
I thought these boards were from last year but it turns out the MX is the latest model. All sizes are in stock if anyone is interested.
https://shop.surfindustries.com/us/surf/stand-up-paddle-boards/all-rounder/tom-carroll-outer-reef-mx/
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My opinion, which won't be popular, has been well vetted. Get yourself a high quality inflatable, like a Red Paddle 10'6".
An inflatable sup like a Red Paddle is impractical for where we go. For a flat water saltwater marsh cruise, the marsh area is loaded with lots of oyster beds and these oyster beds grow upward from the marsh bottom. The water is so muddy, you can't see them. The sharp edges of the oyster shells will shred the bottom side of an inflatable sup.
Many saltwater kayakers know what "oyster rash" is when the plastic bottom of the hull of their kayaks contacts the sharp edges of an oyster shell. Those deep scratches in the hull's bottom isn't pretty to look at when the kayak bottom hull slides over the sharp edges of an array of oyster shells.
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Prone board volume and SUP board volume are two entirely different things that have absolutely nothing to do with one another.
I agree with your choice for going longer for your weaker waves, but it's not the high volume of the longer board that gives you more glide, it's the longer waterline. Excess volume just adds to the thickness of the board and has no added benefit for lighter riders such as you and I.
I looked into GSI. It appears to be a good company. I couldn't find a single bad review. So I went ahead and ordered a 10'6 Outer Reef MX through the website.
I thought these boards were from last year but it turns out the MX is the latest model. All sizes are in stock if anyone is interested.
https://shop.surfindustries.com/us/surf/stand-up-paddle-boards/all-rounder/tom-carroll-outer-reef-mx
The NSP Allrounder 10'11" is just 4.06" in thickness for it's 186 liters. That is not very thick for a sup of this length and volume. I'm guessing the rails on this sup are thinned out. Anyhow, more research is in order. ;)
BTW, since you ordered a 10'6" Outer Reef, I'd be "very" interested in seeing your review of it when you get it and take it for a "test ride". Inquiring minds, like mine, want to know. 8)
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Oyster Rash - check has some
Shot of the rails/rocker/outline.
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Guest board? Anything near the size you want that’s on craigslist.
It’s that simple. But if you travel at all the inflatable was a good suggestion.
Gulf coast surfing? I’d go with a 14’er and just roll in from way outside. ;)
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@ Scallop
Thanks for the photos of your NSP Allrounder 10'11. With the video I posted of the 2018 cocoflax constructed NSP Allrounder 10'11" showing 3 fin boxes and with your elements constructed 10'11" showing 5 fin boxes, I'm wondering why the elements constructed one has 5 fin boxes and the cocoflax constructed one has 3 fin boxes.
I guess I will have to contact NSP sometime this upcoming Monday with a phone call or an email and find out "what is what" concerning the number of fin boxes. If it comes down to the different types of construction for the 10'11' Allrounder which dictates how many fin boxes the 10'11' comes with, I would gladly switch to the elements construction if it comes with 5 fin boxes.
BTW, thanks for finding your photos. Those photos are much appreciated by me. :)
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Guest board? Anything near the size you want that’s on craigslist.
It’s that simple. But if you travel at all the inflatable was a good suggestion.
Gulf coast surfing? I’d go with a 14’er and just roll in from way outside. ;)
So far, nothing on Craigslist in my area for the length of the sup board I want.
I don't do much long distance traveling with my 11'1" sup. When I go down to the beach and stay overnight, on Galveston Island, I stay at the motel/hotel in the link below because I can get a first floor room with a door which opens to the parking lot where my truck is parked for the night in front of my room. I do this because I can bring my sup into the room with me for the night. This way I know it won't get stolen.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g1887325-d291286-Reviews-Gaido_s_Seaside_Inn-Galveston_Island_Texas.html
And when I stay overnight near Surfside, I usually stay at the motel/hotel at the link below in Angleton for the same reason.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g30171-d106170-Reviews-Best_Western_Angleton_Inn-Angleton_Texas.html
As for a 14' sup, this length doesn't appeal to me. Good downwinder length, but I don't think our small wave height waves on the upper Texas coast would make this length poor for sup surfing.
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sounds like a wait for an allrounder on Craigslist.....
or. Agree with above- get YOU another board that you would want that also serves an all-around or guest purpose.
I know every board that wasn't a dedicated surf sup I have ever bought i bought under the premise it was for guests or my wife but ALWAYS was a board I wanted to ride in certain conditions that filled a quiver hole for me.
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Badger, It will be interesting to see how you like it. Did not TC's rep take a hit on the first iteration of his boards? I remember Peter Cabrinha having a brief go ...and early departure. Sometimes these guys look like old jockeys signing autographs at the track.
Too bad about the oyster shells, Winger... Not my cuppa (memories of pumping 16-18meter kites is still too fresh in my memory), but something civilians can do Pro Wrestling move upon and not bust anything. ..the search is fun, I'm sure you'll find something.
Jim
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Badger, It will be interesting to see how you like it. Did not TC's rep take a hit on the first iteration of his boards? I remember Peter Cabrinha having a brief go ...and early departure. Sometimes these guys look like old jockeys signing autographs at the track.
Jim
I haven't been following the brand that closely.
It's really strange that there is nothing online about these boards other than the redundant sales info. The website is well done with good information about the boards. The boards look good and I like that Blane Chambers is shaping them. It's spooky how there are no reviews good or bad. If they were bad quality I would expect some bad reviews.
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You underestimate the toughness of modern inflatables. My Red Dragon has been abused in every way conceivable by teenagers for two years. Dragged over rip-rap, dropped in parking lots, crashed into rocks and sharp gravel. A quick rinse and I could sell it as a new board.
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Thought I would throw a video for the Naish Nalu 11'0" out as well.
I had to look at lots of Nalu 11' videos and he best collection of this board has been DavidJohn's videos. Since most of my friends are between 175-190 lbs, I picked this video since DJ is around 190 lbs and at the end of this video, the boards specs are shown.
Also, my custom built One World is 173 liters and 30" in width and the Nalu is 175 liters and 31" in width which would probably be better for me. ;) And it can surf small waves which are prevalent on the upper Texas coast.
https://vimeo.com/101201624
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Winger... I bought two Nalu a number of years ago ...there was some outfit down your way that sold 'damaged freight' and I got a 10-6 and 11' pretty cheaply. (minor issues) If I remember correctly (and he can correct me) DJ is like 6-4 'merican size, so that solid-teak feeling 11', would not exercise his biceps much. I should have kept the 10-6 but Yellow wore me out ...the 10-6 from Blue Planet is more suited to my clumsy form.
_________________ sorry for the hijack Winger
Badger, See if you can dig into the archives of the Breeze. I'd like to be wrong, but I think I remember his great name not equating into an above average board. I remember seeing Blaine Chambers shapes, and even a guy from the Upper Midwest can recognize a great sculptor, but I wonder if it takes a great rider to realize his vision? If I have learned anything the hard way: someone with lesser skills should not attempt to ride a high-level board in C'hit for conditions. It only slows your progress.
Jim
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Winger... I bought two Nalu a number of years ago ...there was some outfit down your way that sold 'damaged freight' and I got a 10-6 and 11' pretty cheaply. (minor issues) If I remember correctly (and he can correct me) DJ is like 6-4 'merican size, so that solid-teak feeling 11', would not exercise his biceps much. I should have kept the 10-6 but Yellow wore me out ...the 10-6 from Blue Planet is more suited to my clumsy form.
_________________ sorry for the hijack Winger
You didn't hijack anything. When I started looking at choices, I looked at Blue Planet's lineup and the Boss 10'8" at 36", Da Pops 10'10" at 33", Wave 11'0" at 34", Da Ohana 11'2" at 40" are all too wide because I set my maximum width limit at (32.5").
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NightWing
You will LOVE the Naish Nalu 11Ft rides wave and flatwater "As smooth as Silk" Easy to nose ride
I know you MORE than qualify for our ZONER DEAL to get it at a good PRICE
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
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NightWing
You will LOVE the Naish Nalu 11Ft rides wave and flatwater "As smooth as Silk" Easy to nose ride
I know you MORE than qualify for our ZONER DEAL to get it at a good PRICE
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
I already knew about your Zoner's discount pricing. Since I've been on this site, one day short of 2 years as of this date and I am a regular participant in posting here on the Zone along with being the owner of two sup boards, I already knew about your Zoner deals and had put this "detail" into my mind for "future reference" about a year ago.
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@ Scallop
Just curious.
Since you have the NSP 10'11" Allrounder and since it has 5 fin boxes, have you ever ridden it with a 4 fin quad setup?
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Never got to it. I looked for a Lopez set but couldn't find it in FCSI. Mostly ran it as a single with a 9" California Special or a 4A or with the 4A and 4 1/2 sides for the few times I have had it out over waist high.
I do think you are on the right track. I put a Sunova Mako 7 in it that I got with my Steeze and the performance increase was noticeable, easier to swing and MUCH faster on the wave and in flat water. I just run that in it all the time now when I use it and forgot about the quads.
If your are looking at this again the best thing I can say about the Elements layup is that it's cheap and easy to fix, wouldn't recommend it unless those 2 factors are the driver. But..... I also don't care so much when my wife or a guest runs it up on a scallop bed (I had a chuckle when you mentioned that, has happened) Don't know if the more expensive layups are better or not but they advertise as a lot lighter which is something.
All that being said it's super stable, easy to surf and paddles flat water pretty darn good when the chop's not too bad.
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@ Scallop
I asked about the 4 fin quad setup because when I sup surf, with the waves I "generally" encounter on the upper Texas coast, I use a 4 quad fin setup on my 11'1" One World. The quad fin setup makes my 11'1" board go faster speed wise when compared with a 2 + 1 fin setup.
And with the three boards I'm presently looking at in the topic thread, the options for all three boards are still open.
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NW, are you still looking? Craigslist rarely/never has anything where I live either. My JL deal might be falling through, thanks to fedex’s brutality, which leaves me on the search once again.
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NW, are you still looking?
I'm not really looking anymore. I'm basically biding my time. All three sups I've listed for my guest board are still being considered.
Beside, I'm waiting on Badger to get his Tom Carroll "Outer Reef" 10'6" from the shipping company to see how it fared in transit to his home. I'm going to see how it was packaged for shipment and compare it against how my One World was packaged for shipping since the Outer Reef 11'0" is still in the running as my choices go.
My One World, with a board bag, a new paddle leash and 6 fins I ordered came to around a total of 33 lbs. But when I got the confirmation on the tracking number, the info on the shipping label also included the weight of the package and it came to 99 lbs.
My One World, along with the new paddle leash and 6 fins, they were all inside the board bag. Then the board bag was wrapped in lots of bubble wrap and covered in taped cardboard pieces covering the bubble wrap.
Then all of this was put in one large rectangular heavy duty cardboard sup box for shipping. Then this box was then put into a second larger heavy weight rectangular heavy duty cardboard sup box. So it was "tripled wrapped".
And this is why there was no damage in transit from Santa Barbara, California to the shipping terminal in northwest Houston (Texas) where I picked it up at the shipping terminal and opened it up at the shipping terminal to check for damage.
I look at it this way. With a custom built board costing around $2200 and since I'm paying for the shipping, I'm the one who says how it is going to be shipped (like trying to get into Fort Knox). And if any company doesn't want to "heavy duty wrap" a board I'm buying from the company, then the deal is 'off". I discussed all of this when I was dealing with WarDog (Warren Thomas of Sup Sports) and he agreed to my shipping "wants, needs and likes" when I placed the order for my 11'1" One World.
If a custom board gets damaged, it would take another 8 weeks to get a second one and this is why I wanted my board to be packed........"to the hilt" if you get my drift.
My custom One World was ordered on Dec 7th, 2017 and it arrived on Feb 7th, 2018. That was 8 weeks (two months). If you want to see how my custom One World was packaged, go to the link below and near the end of the topic thread, you'll see how it was packaged since I took quite a few pictures of it at the shipping terminal. And there are 12 pages in the link below with 112 replies. You might find the below link interesting reading.
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,32850.0.html
BTW, I read how your two JL boards were damaged when you inspected them, but I think half the blame goes to FedEx. I have a nagging feeling though, when the board was shipped from JL, it wasn't packaged well enough for transit. Just a guess on my part since you didn't provide any pictures of the two packaged boards.
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I’ve sometimes wondered if distributors knowingly send boards that are damaged, to customers in inadequate packaging, in order to be able to claim from the couriers for what would otherwise be a virtually worthless item.
So, now (especially if a board is being offered at a huge discount) I ask the person selling the board to send me extensive pictures of the actual board, including the serial number, before I buy it. I suppose they could still fake the pics, if they have enough stock. But I can tell you that on a couple of occasions I’ve found that the board that was apparently available suddenly became unavailable once I asked for pictures... coincidence? Hmm...
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JL boards come from Vietnam. I've unpacked a few at my local dealer and thought they were packaged pretty well. Problems might occur if the board was unpacked by a dealer and then repacked and sent to a customer.
The Tom Carroll boards are made in Australia I think. The price of $1100 with free shipping makes me wonder what I'll be getting. I'll take pics of each step as I unbox it tomorrow.
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I think the JL boards were in their factory packaging, which was fine for air travel. The problem is with ground travel, and yes, fedex carries half the blame for the damage. I din’t th8nk any shipping company’s warehouses employees are going to give a fig about stickers like “no forklift please”. They just want to get the board from loading dock 2 to loading dock 32.
The JL warehouse is now out of the board I want, and as I see it, 2 boards have been wasted.
Night Wing, the bubble wrap idea is what is required. SOMETHING has to be put on the rails to protect them. A mere cardboard box won’t suffice. If I try again with JL, I’ll ask that the original shipping box be opened and either foam or bubble wrap is placed along the rail line. The problem now is there are no more boards like the one I want.
On that note, I want to thank everyone who has advised and supported me on my board quest. You know who you are! I want to thank supthecreek, ponobill, and stoneaxe for their amazing generosity, which got me started on this great stand-up trip.
Now, I need to find an alternative to the JL Cruise Control.....
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Really sorry to hear about your bad luck with both of the boards - such a shame. I hope that you get some better luck (and better service from the courier) with whichever board you go for!
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Night Wing, the bubble wrap idea is what is required. SOMETHING has to be put on the rails to protect them. A mere cardboard box won’t suffice. If I try again with JL, I’ll ask that the original shipping box be opened and either foam or bubble wrap is placed along the rail line. The problem now is there are no more boards like the one I want.
Just keep this in mind. There are different grades of cardboard, from light to heavy duty, just like there are different grades of stainless steel. Sup Sports (StandUp PaddleSports) uses heavy duty cardboard boxes to ship their customer's sups world wide.
The heavy duty cardboard they use to ship their sups; plus the other material used in conjunction to protect their customer's boards, is the reason why the total weight of my board when it was shipped for transit, weighed 99 lbs.
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The shipping weight for my Outer Reef 10'6 (containing just board and fins) is 41 pounds.
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The shipping weight for my Outer Reef 10'6 (containing just board and fins) is 41 pounds.
I guess you're looking forward to Monday's delivery. ;)
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The shipping weight for my Outer Reef 10'6 (containing just board and fins) is 41 pounds.
I guess you're looking forward to Monday's delivery. ;)
uh oh. thats basically shinkwrapped!
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NW did you not like the one world board ? It looks nice .
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NW did you not like the one world board ? It looks nice .
I love my custom built Sup Sports "One World". A production made One World is 11'1" x 30" x 4.6" @ 200 liters with 3 fin boxes. My custom made One World is 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 liters with 5 fin boxes with the rails thinned out.
My custom One World was built for my physical weight between 144-146 lbs with thinned out rails so it would surf well with the waves I would encounter on the upper Texas coast on a "regular basis". And I even added a Blue Planet Sup Grip to make it easy to carry. With deckpad installed, which includes a kickpad and using a 4 fin quad setup (2, 5") (2, 4") for sup surfing, my One World weighs 22 lbs, 14 oz. And I even added 2 vent plugs because southeast Texas gets real hot during the months of July and August with heat indexes between 108 degrees F and 115 degrees F.
Let me be clear about this. My guest board is not for me. My guest board is for my guests who aren't used to being on a 30" wide sup. This is why when I was looking for a guest board, I was looking at production made boards between 31" to 32.5" wide and volume between 175 to 187 liters (or there abouts). I think my "balanced challenged" guests can handle these two parameters. I also wanted the guest board to have 3 fin boxes and the length of the board would be between 10'10" to 11'2".
This is why I am looking at the 10'11" NSP Allrounder in CocoFlax construction, 11' Naish Nalu in GS construction and the Outer Reef 11' in MX construction as my choices for a guest board.
If the NSP Allrounder 10'11" x 32.25" x 4.06" @ 186 liters comes with 5 fin boxes, with the thinned out rails of this sup, this is my first choice for the guest board. I still have to call NSP to find out if this 10'11" model comes with 5 fin boxes. I think this sup would make a good flat water paddler and if it does come with 5 fin boxes, it would surf very well with a 4 fin quad setup. And I have to find out if this board has a vent plug since a vent plug is not listed in the specifications and the picture of it does not show a vent plug either.
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My “guest board” is a 11-6 x 31” 209L JP Australia longboard.
Super stable, but also fun for me to surf in small waves - it’s so stable that even a kook like me can do coffin rides etc. It paddles flat water fine, comparable in speed to other all-rounder surf shapes, and possibly slightly better than some (eg. the Starboard Blend) because the rocker is a bit flatter.
I’ve also got inflatables that guests can use. They can be good for guests because they are less dangerous when they fall. The problem with iSUPs however is that they will be falling more often: The dreaded “iSUP wobble”. But I can lend my iSUPs to guests and never have to worry about dings. That’s a HUGE advantage.
Guests rarely realise how fragile hard SUPs are. So something like the super-tough BIC Board is also a good idea. But guests also typically struggle to carry heavy boards, and tough epoxy boards are heavy.
Has anyone tried the Bounce boards? What happened to them - haven’t heard anything for a while?
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My “guest board” is a 11-6 x 31” 209L JP Australia longboard.
Super stable, but also fun for me to surf in small waves - it’s so stable that even a kook like me can do coffin rides etc. It paddles flat water fine, comparable in speed to other all-rounder surf shapes, and possibly slightly better than some (eg. the Starboard Blend) because the rocker is a bit flatter.
I’ve also got inflatables that guests can use. They can be good for guests because they are less dangerous when they fall. The problem with iSUPs however is that they will be falling more often: The dreaded “iSUP wobble”. But I can lend my iSUPs to guests and never have to worry about dings. That’s a HUGE advantage.
Guests rarely realise how fragile hard SUPs are. So something like the super-tough BIC Board is also a good idea. But guests also typically struggle to carry heavy boards, and tough epoxy boards are heavy.
Has anyone tried the Bounce boards? What happened to them - haven’t heard anything for a while?
Bounce is still around. They haven't come out with any new models in years though. I think they're content to just sell to rental fleets.
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My “guest board” is a 11-6 x 31” 209L JP Australia longboard.
Super stable, but also fun for me to surf in small waves - it’s so stable that even a kook like me can do coffin rides etc. It paddles flat water fine, comparable in speed to other all-rounder surf shapes, and possibly slightly better than some (eg. the Starboard Blend) because the rocker is a bit flatter.
When I was looking to get my second board, I was looking at a board at around 10'6" in length and was all set to purchase a custom built Sup Sports 10'6""Hammer". But then "Fate" stepped in with the tearing of my right rotator cuff being 90% torn through (based on the MRI). After surgery my orthopedic surgeon told me to stay off my 8'11" board for one year since I had a lot of damage in the right shoulder and I was double stitched inside. He didn't want me surfing down at Surfside and somehow re-injuring my right shoulder.
With all of that time on my hands and getting (pardon the pun here) "board" because I wasn't allowed to ride my 8'11" Hammer, I went down to the Palms Marina on Lake Conroe on a Sunday morning where I knew there would be some flat water paddlers riding their boards. BTW, the Palms Lake marina has a streaming webcam and it is at the link below.
Now, I don't know if the streaming webcam uses Flash or not, but I have Flash installed on all of my 4 computers since I dual boot Linux Mint and Windows 7 and I'm usually 95% of the time using Linux Mint. I have never had any problems with Flash so I'm not as worried about Flash like some people are.
http://www.lakeconroewebcams.com/palms-marina-webcam/
While down at the marina on that Sunday morning, "Lady Luck" was with me. There was a woman down there who had just came back to the marina from her flat water paddling session. To make a long story short, we struck up a conversation. She was 5'11" and weighed 145 lbs. I'm 5'8" and at the time, I was 144 lbs.
She was paddling a 2009 year model Starboard Blend 11'2" x 30" @ 168 liters. She asked me, right then and there, if I wanted to demo ride her Blend around the marina's boat slips. I took her up on her offer and hoped nothing would happen to me since I remembered my surgeon's words about not paddling a sup.
The first 5 minutes of paddling her 30" wide Blend was an "adventure" for me since I was used to paddling my 8'11" x 31" Hammer. After 5 minutes, I got used to the longer 11'2" length and the 30" width. When I came back after 20 minutes, I asked the woman about sup surfing her board down at Surfside, Texas.
She told me Surfside is the best place to surf her 11'2" Blend. But she made a point to tell me in choppy water conditions, she wished her Blend had 5 more liters of volume in it which means her Blend would have been at 173 liters instead of 168 liters. I remembered her words when I ordered my custom One World 11'1" x 30" and I told Wardog (Warren) I wanted my One World 11'1" x 30" to have 173 liters of volume.
So my parameters for my One World was patterned after the Starboard Blend 11'2" x 30". Below is a video of Scott McKercher surfing a 2014 year model, 174 liters Starboard Blend. My One World has some modifications to it when compared to the Blend. I think the Blend's rails in 2014 were 50/50 but my One World's rails are 60/40 to take advantage of the small waves I usually encounter here on the upper Texas coast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUkgWgGCbtw
Speaking just for myself, at my 146 lb present weight, I find when sup boards have 200 liters of volume or more, I find these boards are "corky" in feeling to me because of the high boxy type of rails so this is why I'm a fan of thinned out rails. When I got the idea of a guest board, I had to look at all of my friend's "physical weight". My next door neighbor has relatively good balance and he weighs 180 lbs. My wife's youngest niece weighs 125 lbs and she has excellent balance since she snow skis.
This is why I chose as my upper liter volume to be around 187 liters to avoid the corky feeling any of my guests might encounter at their weight and also, the length of the boards I'm thinking about, would surf well at Surfside with a minimum 3 fin boxes.
In my personal opinion, I think in choppy water conditions, standing closer to the waterline is better. This is why I really like the 4.06" thickness of the NSP 10'11" Allrounder in CocoFlax construction with 186 liters of volume.
I'm a detailed oriented person and to me, "the Devil is in the details" and if one doesn't pay attention to the small details, those details can sometimes come back and bite someone in the rear end. ;)
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The 11-6 JP Australia longboard has thinner rails than you’d think. It doesn’t feel corky at all, and is super-stable even in chop. The Litres of a board is not a very good guide to how a board feels.
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My second board was a 2013 174 liter Starboard Blend which I had for a few years. I never liked the way it surfed, mostly because of the parallel rails.
Ever since then I've avoided longboard shapes and have always gone with a curved outline no matter what the length because they are so much easier to turn.
What I like about the Outer Reef is the continuously curved outline. The reason why I went with 10'6 is because as you go longer with that same shape, the board gets slower, requiring modifications to the shape to improve glide which is not apparent on the longer Outer Reefs. Modifications such as narrower width, harder rails, flatter rocker, etc.
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Outer Reef is a good price too !
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The 11-6 JP Australia longboard has thinner rails than you’d think. It doesn’t feel corky at all, and is super-stable even in chop. The Litres of a board is not a very good guide to how a board feels.
The reason you're saying the JP 11'6" @ 209 liters is super stable (for you), is probably because you don't weigh 146 lbs like I do. Just a guess on my part since you didn't state your weight. That is a "detail" you left out.
I'll give you an example. Keep in mind that the 2009 year model Starboard Blend I originally demoed on Lake Conroe was: 11'2" x 30" x 4.3" @ 168 liters. This board did not feel corky to me at my weight.
I have demoed one other board, a Starboard Blend Wide Point and it's specs were: 11'2" x 32" x 4.6" @ 198 liters. This board did feel corky to me even though it is 32" wide and with it's width, it should not have felt corky to me.
Nothing scientific, but my "gut feeling" tells me this board felt corky to me was because the 198 liters of volume is just too much volume for my 146 lb physical weight. For me, it felt like "trying to stand and balance on a round ball".
So "feel" (corkiness and/or stability) is subjective depending on the individual. In other words, "what feels stable to you, may not feel stable to me and vice versa".
Now for "chop". When water conditions get choppy, I'm more comfortable with a board with less thickness and a lower volume of liters in the board in conjunction with my physical weight because I want to be closer to the waterline on the rails. It makes it easier to paddle (for me) and I feel stable on a board in these water conditions with the parameters I have given.
But, many times a production made board won't have both criteria for my liking. Then I have to compromise. So I will choose a slightly thicker board if I can get a lower volume of liters in a board with thinned out rails. This is why I chose the parameters for my custom One World.
My One World is the board I will paddle and the guest will be paddling the "guest board" in whatever sup I choose for I want think the guest will be best suited for. And this "guess" is a calculated and educated guess.
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My second board was a 2013 174 liter Starboard Blend which I had for a few years. I never liked the way it surfed, mostly because of the parallel rails.
Ever since then I've avoided longboard shapes and have always gone with a curved outline no matter what the length because they are so much easier to turn.
But the Blend you owned was built with 3 fin boxes. If your Blend would have had 5 fin boxes, I think you "might" have liked the way it surfed if you could have surfed your Blend with a 4 fin quad setup.
This is why I am a big fan of a long (close to 11') board with 5 fin boxes, thinned out rails with a pulled in nose and a pintail.
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I doubt that a quad set up would help the Blend.
The Wide Point is a much better shape than the Blend IMO.
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Nothing scientific, but my "gut feeling" tells me this board felt corky to me was because the 198 liters of volume is just too much volume for my 146 lb physical weight. For me, it felt like "trying to stand and balance on a round ball".
Since this is a "guest" board, what happens if your guest weighs more than 146 pounds?
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Nothing scientific, but my "gut feeling" tells me this board felt corky to me was because the 198 liters of volume is just too much volume for my 146 lb physical weight. For me, it felt like "trying to stand and balance on a round ball".
Since this is a "guest" board, what happens if your guest weighs more than 146 pounds?
Go back to Page 2 in this topic thread and read Reply #20 on: April 22, 2019, 10:58:53 AM, which is my post and you'll have your answer where I mentioned the physical weight range of my friends.
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Nothing scientific, but my "gut feeling" tells me this board felt corky to me was because the 198 liters of volume is just too much volume for my 146 lb physical weight. For me, it felt like "trying to stand and balance on a round ball".
Since this is a "guest" board, what happens if your guest weighs more than 146 pounds?
Go back to Page 2 in this topic thread and read Reply #20 on: April 22, 2019, 10:58:53 AM, which is my post and you'll have your answer where I mentioned the physical weight range of my friends.
I’m puzzled, Night Wing. It seems like you have an extremely detailed idea of what you want and what you feel would be right for you. So why ask us?
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I'm puzzled by "physical weight". ;D
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Oh, thats easy Badger, between 175-190... ;D
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Lol, I understand that part. It's the phrase he uses that has always made me wonder. "Physical weight" as opposed to what? ;D
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The gravitas brought by the guest 8)
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Luckily i leave my 'emotional weight' on land before I surf, if I didnt I'd need a 500L board ;D ;D
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Baggage weight limit! ;D
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Carrion baggage is often subject to both physical and emotional weight...
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Nothing scientific, but my "gut feeling" tells me this board felt corky to me was because the 198 liters of volume is just too much volume for my 146 lb physical weight. For me, it felt like "trying to stand and balance on a round ball".
Since this is a "guest" board, what happens if your guest weighs more than 146 pounds?
Go back to Page 2 in this topic thread and read Reply #20 on: April 22, 2019, 10:58:53 AM, which is my post and you'll have your answer where I mentioned the physical weight range of my friends.
I’m puzzled, Night Wing. It seems like you have an extremely detailed idea of what you want and what you feel would be right for you. So why ask us?
1) You're puzzled? I'm not.
2) And this topic thread isn't about me. It's about a guest board for some of my friends where some of them are "balanced challenged" so trying to choose a board they "all" can ride and enjoy is the first priority.
3) When I take a guest for a flat water paddle on Lake Conroe or Lake Woodlands or even sup surfing down at Surfside; if the guest board works for them where they enjoy flat water paddling and sup surfing, if by chance the guest board also works for me as well where I enjoy it, then that is an added bonus for me.
4) And why ask us? I like getting opinions and I'll analyze the info I get, but it still comes down to me when it comes to making the final choice.
5) Lastly, there are unregistered lurkers on this site and they're looking for info on standup paddling. So topic threads like this one just might help them out. I was a unregistered lurker on the Zoner site for awhile and then I decided to register to become a member because the info on various paddling topics helped me out.
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Lol, I understand that part. It's the phrase he uses that has always made me wonder. "Physical weight" as opposed to what? ;D
Two months ago my next door neighbor asked me how much I weigh. I told him 144 lbs in the winter time and 146 lbs in the summer time. So I asked him how much he weighs. He told me 168 lbs. I looked at him and told him, "I seriously doubt that".
He then asked me how much I thought he weighed. I told him, "You told me you weighed 168 lbs, but I think your physical weight is 180 lbs....or more. I then asked him if he had a digital weight scale at his home. He told me he did.
I then asked him when was the last time he weighed himself? There was a very long pause from him. He looked at me and said, "Lets go to my home and I'll get on the scale".
So we did and he did. The "tale of the scale" said he weighed 183 lbs. I then told him, "Looks like you're going to be doing a sweaty 20 minutes every night on your Stairmaster". :D
He told me; "No, 15 sweaty minutes nightly on the Stairmaster and I'll quit drinking 3 beers every night as well". ;D
My neighbor is now down to 170 lbs.
Hence, my propensity for the term "physical weight". ;)
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2) And this topic thread isn't about me. It's about a guest board for some of my friends where some of them are "balanced challenged" so trying to choose a board they "all" can ride and enjoy is the first priority.
Winger, your assumption that you'll be able choose the right balanced board for your guests based on your own habits and taste, especially being a very particular person with a certain physic, might be misguided.
your guests being at physical weight range of 175-190 and at different experience level make this even more of a crapshoot, especially when you designate this board to be both flat and surf.
From what I've read it looks like your heavily relying on your own experience. You'd probably have more luck taking the manufacturer description of board target audience, they are better at aiming for a wide range
target audience, otherwise, you'll end up with another board that you really like but your guest not so much. Just don't be surprised if they would not come and surf with you.
and while at it I'll throw the Jimmy Lewis Cruise Control into the mix. Great price great construction and great shape. Don't get hung-up on fins, specifically, YOUR choice of fins. With such a casual big board you'll
cover a lot with solid single fin.
http://jimmylewis.com/shop/cruise-control/
Our longest running, best selling Cruise Control SUP is the original “All Around” board. Many have copied the basic dimensions, but you have to try one to realize what a tremendous difference there is. This is the best board for the paddler who wants to do a little bit of everything. Full nose, squash tail and parallel outline gives this board maximum stability and tracking (paddling straight) performance . Perfect rocker for maximum glide.
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2) And this topic thread isn't about me. It's about a guest board for some of my friends where some of them are "balanced challenged" so trying to choose a board they "all" can ride and enjoy is the first priority.
Winger, your assumption that you'll be able choose the right balanced board for your guests based on your own habits and taste, especially being a very particular person with a certain physic, might be misguided.
your guests being at physical weight range of 175-190 and at different experience level make this even more of a crapshoot, especially when you designate this board to be both flat and surf.
From what I've read it looks like your heavily relying on your own experience. You'd probably have more luck taking the manufacturer description of board target audience, they are better at aiming for a wide range
target audience, otherwise, you'll end up with another board that you really like but your guest not so much. Just don't be surprised if they would not come and surf with you.
and while at it I'll throw the Jimmy Lewis Cruise Control into the mix. Great price great construction and great shape. Don't get hung-up on fins, specifically, YOUR choice of fins. With such a casual big board you'll
cover a lot with solid single fin.
http://jimmylewis.com/shop/cruise-control/
Our longest running, best selling Cruise Control SUP is the original “All Around” board. Many have copied the basic dimensions, but you have to try one to realize what a tremendous difference there is. This is the best board for the paddler who wants to do a little bit of everything. Full nose, squash tail and parallel outline gives this board maximum stability and tracking (paddling straight) performance . Perfect rocker for maximum glide.
The Cruise Control is a great choice, but the inventory on the website isn’t accurate. I’m still trying to get one from Jimmy, and he’s having to go through a shop for me to see if they’ll honor the sale price. I imagine more will be coming in from Vietnam, but I don’t have the scoop on that yet.
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@ burchas
We're having some windy weather here this week. Today the wind was blowing a steady 24 mph with the gusts around 30 mph. More heavy wind for Wednesday. For the rest of the week, there is a percentage of rain forecasted everyday including next Tuesday.
If there is a break in the weather for this upcoming Sunday, I'm going to put my 170 lb neighbor on my 11'1" board and see how he handles it's 30" width, along with it's 173 liters of volume, on the lake I paddle in our subdivision.
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We're having some windy weather here this week. Today the wind was blowing a steady 24 mph
With that kind of wind you should take up Windsurfing or at least WINGsurfing
Just a thought
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
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We're having some windy weather here this week. Today the wind was blowing a steady 24 mph
With that kind of wind you should take up Windsurfing or at least WINGsurfing
At my age of 69 and with a cranky lower back, I'm afraid if I attempted windsuring, I'd get hurt.
In my WebCam favorites folder, I have the streaming webcam for Surfside which is my favorite place to sup surf on the upper Texas coast. But, the webcam requires Flash. Many people don't like Flash, but I'm not one of them. I've got Flash installed in all of my linux and windows browsers and it's setting is "Ask to Activate".
If you've got Flash installed, then go to the link below. Once on the page, you'll have to activate Flash to see the streaming webcam. You can control the web camera too. Before the webcam is seen, you'll have to listen to the "short advertisement" for Galveston College. This ad helps to defray the cost of the camera.
At the bottom right of the window, click on the camera button and it should say "wait" or "1 ahead" if someone else has control of the camera. The camera can only being controlled for one minute of time.
If you have control of the camera, look at the upper right of the window and you'll see "Position". Click on that and there will be a drop down menu which appears with various position choices. My favorite is the "Jetty Base Zoom" and you'll see the waves in conjunction with the wind speed.
Play around with the different camera positions if you like.
https://saltwater-recon.com/surfside-cam/
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...I'm going to put my 170 lb neighbor on my 11'1" board and see how he handles it's 30" width, along with it's 173 liters of volume...
I suspect that if your neighbor does well on your one world, he would do even better on the Cruise Control based on the difference in the outline of the two in terms of stability.
That should give you better chances for a surfing companion :)
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...I'm going to put my 170 lb neighbor on my 11'1" board and see how he handles it's 30" width, along with it's 173 liters of volume...
I suspect that if your neighbor does well on your one world, he would do even better on the Cruise Control based on the difference in the outline of the two in terms of stability.
That should give you better chances for a surfing companion :)
Well, I’m soon going to look at a 12-6 x 30” 170L gun. But it is a thing of great beauty so you wouldn’t lend it to some ham-fisted newbie :)
But I’m not telling you any more details until I’ve actually seen it in the flesh... then I’ll post some pics.
Mmm... 12-6x30 170L Gun. Tell me you don’t want one :)
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The 11' Cruise Control is only $924.
http://jimmylewis.com/shop/cruise-control/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugSnrcLEZHY
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Well, I’m soon going to look at a 12-6 x 30” 170L gun. But it is a thing of great beauty so you wouldn’t lend it to some ham-fisted newbie :)
But I’m not telling you any more details until I’ve actually seen it in the flesh... then I’ll post some pics.
Mmm... 12-6x30 170L Gun. Tell me you don’t want one :)
I do not mind letting my neighbor try out my 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 liters board. He has to learn some way and this way he can learn without having to purchase a board. It will be a good learning experience for him. I'll just tell him if he is going to fall, fall away from the board and make sure the paddle falls with him. I'll make sure the lake water he'll be testing my board out will be around 4' in depth. I'll give a "review" on here after the event. Either in this topic thread or I'll start a new one. Right now, my thinking is to keep it in this topic thread.
My first sup was a Hobie ATR-2 model with a single fin. It specs were" 12'2" x 32" x 4 5/8" @ 238 liters. It was a great sup for "hauling" lots of gear and I took it overnight camping on Lake Conroe. Transporting a folding tent, sleeping bag, a pad under the bag to keep my shoulders from hurting, a few pots, utensils, etc and with me on the board with all of the gear, the ATR was quite stable.
But, if it was just me on the board, it was tippy as all get out and I attribute that to the 238 liters of volume and my light 144-146 lbs. I never liked it's big boxy type of rails either. Hard to turn turn on flat water. Never liked the way it surfed either. The 12'2" length of it bothered me too. Just too long for my tastes. After one year of owning it and taking it out many times, I sold it So this board was my "first hand learning experience".
With your 12'6" x 30" @ 170 liters gun to look at; speaking just for myself, I like the 30" width. I like the 170 liters of volume as well, but the 12'6" length of it, that is what I'm having reservations about it.
When you take a look at it, take some pictures. Since I'm a detail oriented person, take "lots" of pictures. ;) And if you purchase this gun, just test it out on flat water and surfing it and then make a review of it.
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Winger... I have had one of those boxy cruisers - a Tahoe comes to mind. 'Probably great for tour/camping but it got slapped around in the very short duration chop we get behind the barrier island. The nose kept getting kicked sideways in a quartering wave.
I would not be concerned with the length too much (except cartopping in a breeze) Most surf shape boards have nose kick so the effective waterline is less and they handle chop better in my mind.
The answer to 10 is: YA! I am crying that I had not waited (..didn't know to wait) for the Sunova Pt. Break. I could surely use the extra 2" of width over my Venom.
Jim
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I just got off the phone from after talking with one of the NSP reps. And after talking with him, I got good new and bad news.
The Good News:
The 10'11" CocoFlax model does come with 5 fin boxes. 8)
The Bad News:
There is no vent plug. :o >:(
The rep told me it would be a good idea to put this board in a board bag, not zipped all the way, in the extremely hot Texas months of July and August for transport. I told him that was all well and good, but even that idea has a drawback.
The drawback is; if one comes out of the water after the last ride, our Texas coastal water has a lot of suspended sand in it. That means putting a not yet dry board, with lots of sand clinging to the diamond deckpad, straight into the board bag. The inside of the board bag is going to like a mess when I get it home.
The rep told me he doesn't know why there is no vent plug, but he told me he would pass along the question to the "powers that be" who make these calls whether to add a vent plug or not.
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My 11' Cruise Control should be flying in here next weekend, so I'll be able to give a report on that board in a couple weeks. It's flying from Maui to Charlotte----hopefully with better luck than the ground journey from Cali to NC!
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I'm still not a fan of single fin sup boards which the Cruise Control is. One single fin is fine and dandy for flat water paddling, but I have to keep in mind the board will have to be able to surf our "not large waves" which is prevalent on the upper Texas coast. I've found a 4 fin quad setup or a 2 + 1 fin setup is better suited to our upper Texas waves whether I'm using my 8'11" Hammer or my 11'1" One World and both boards specifications are in my signature.
I've sup surfed my big 11'1" board with a 1 single 9" fin, a 4 fin quad setup (2, 5") (2, 4") and as a 2 + 1 fin setup (2, 5") (1, 9"). The 4 fin quad setup has no problems with tiny, small or medium sized waves. I've never surfed it in large waves 7' and over (yet). The 4 fin quad makes both of my boards (11'1" & 8'11") go faster and is my overall choice for fin setups for the waves I generally run into.
I'm looking forward to this upcoming Sunday afternoon. My 170 lb neighbor and my 190 lb friend are both going to demo my 11'1" board in the largest private lake in our subdivision. But, I'm going to throw them a curve ball as well. They don't know it, but I'm also going to have them demo my 8'11" Hammer as well.
We should be on the lake for 4 hours. This will give me some valuable feedback from them for "their" preferences for: length, width, thickness, volumes of liters and different fin setups for flat water paddling.
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I'm still not a fan of single fin sup boards which the Cruise Control is.
I thought it's about your guests, not about you ??? If you really care about your guests you should look into
the best all-around shape rather than what is the best surf shape, since you were not sure they'll even
want to join you.
But if you secretly want a third board and the only way you can get it by the Mrs. is if you claim it a
"Guest" Board then we should be privy to the fact ;)
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I loved my JL Cruise Control 11ft. It was durable but light with a superb paint finish, and probably one of the most adaptable boards I’ve ever owned. I remember circumnavigating an island near me on it, with a friend also on a Cruise Control, which was the first time anyone had done it on a SUP. That trip was only about 15 miles but this was in the very early days of SUP, long before the invention of race/distance boards, when 15 miles was considered quite a long way. But I could never get used to the fact that the dimensions written on the board only mentioned the length and width of the board. What would happen if a guest wanted to check the full specifications to see if the board would be too corky for them? Everyone would be totally at sea. The worry of it completely ruined the circumnavigation for me.
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@ burchas
This guest board is about "them". I'll know more after Sunday afternoon. I'll have their preferences by then. All of my friends are the outdoors type of people. They fish, they crab, they kayak, they hike, they camp, etc, etc.
They both know I flatwater paddle and sup surf both of my boards. Both are highly curious about surfing a sup since I have so many webcam favorites for the upper Texas coast I regularly look at on my computer.
As for my wife, we are as opposite as night and day. I'm the outdoors type, she definitely is not. She has her hobbies, I have mine. I'm a home body and she is not.
So when she told me she has booked another New England trip in 2020 for herself with some of her friends, my answer to her was; "just tell me when you're leaving so I can stock up before hand on essentials like: food, alcoholic beverages, etc". My wife already knew I would be staying home by myself. I think the last time we both took a vacation together was way back in 1981.
I never get upset when she wants to spend money on the things she enjoys in life and she does the same for me. When we were both working, we both made good money. We both spent and we both saved for retirement. She retired before I did. She retired in 2006 and I retired in 2010. She worked for 33 years and I worked for 37 years.
And since we've been married for 45 years, if I was a bean counter accountant, I think it would be safe to say she has outspent me by about 10 to 1 during our 45 year marriage (and counting). ;)
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I loved my JL Cruise Control 11ft. It was durable but light with a superb paint finish, and probably one of the most adaptable boards I’ve ever owned. I remember circumnavigating an island near me on it, with a friend also on a Cruise Control, which was the first time anyone had done it on a SUP. That trip was only about 15 miles but this was in the very early days of SUP, long before the invention of race/distance boards, when 15 miles was considered quite a long way. But I could never get used to the fact that the dimensions written on the board only mentioned the length and width of the board. What would happen if a guest wanted to check the full specifications to see if the board would be too corky for them? Everyone would be totally at sea. The worry of it completely ruined the circumnavigation for me.
So, you loved the board, right? But you were worried that your guests might want more information about the board before trying it out? How did it handle your circumnavigation?
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I loved my JL Cruise Control 11ft. It was durable but light with a superb paint finish, and probably one of the most adaptable boards I’ve ever owned. I remember circumnavigating an island near me on it, with a friend also on a Cruise Control, which was the first time anyone had done it on a SUP. That trip was only about 15 miles but this was in the very early days of SUP, long before the invention of race/distance boards, when 15 miles was considered quite a long way. But I could never get used to the fact that the dimensions written on the board only mentioned the length and width of the board. What would happen if a guest wanted to check the full specifications to see if the board would be too corky for them? Everyone would be totally at sea. The worry of it completely ruined the circumnavigation for me.
So, you loved the board, right? But you were worried that your guests might want more information about the board before trying it out? How did it handle your circumnavigation?
Yes, it was a great board, and that circumnavigation was less tiring than many that followed it, on narrower boards. The Cruise Control had a good cruising speed for a surf-shape. I remember that when the original Naish Glide 12’0” came out, I spent an afternoon doing multiple alternating speed runs on the 11ft JL and the Naish and analysing it statistically in a lot of detail, coming to the conclusion that the Glide was not significantly faster, in flat ocean conditions. The Glide had a huge amount of nose rocker and extremely hard rails, whereas the CC has much less nose rocker and softer rails that make it a comfortable cruising board for an all-round shape. I suppose the fact that the CC is still in production all these years later (I’m guessing it is 10-12 years since I bought mine) and that Glide isn’t, says a lot, really.
A friend of mine really loved the way it surfed. And I did have quite a few good sessions on a head-high offshore bombora on it, where the waves are fat and the relaxed rocker helped it to get into the waves. But the tail was a bit too wide and soft for me for surf, really: it needs someone with a bit more weight than me to get the best out of it in beachbreak type conditions. But for small mellow beginner-type surf it was a good companion for someone starting out.
However, it definitely wouldn’t be the right board for Night Wing, for the reason I described. I guess that some boards are destined to be enjoyed by certain people, and some are not. Night Wing should stay a very long way away from the Cruise Control. Maybe hundreds of miles away, just to be on the safe side. It’s funny, but you can sometimes tell a lot about the priorities of a person from the board they ride, just like you can the vehicle they drive.
Hope this helps :)
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This is going to be a l-o-n-g read.
So my two friends came over today we went down to demo both of my boards, the 8'11" Hammer and my 11'1 One World. Keep in mind my two boards are:
Hammer 8'11" x 31" x 4.0" @ 140 Liters and my One World is 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters. I took all of my fins with me for both boards. Each of my friends paddled with a one single fin setup, a 2 + 1 fin setup (2, 5") (1, 9" for Hammer) (2, 5") (1, 9.25" for One World) and a quad 4 (2, 5") (2, 4") fin setup when demoing both boards.
Both of my boards already had single fin in each to start the demo rides. The Hammer with a 9" single fin and the One World with a 9.25" fin.
I first demoed my Hammer to show them how to standup on it (on the sweet spot for them), with parallel stance and then with my adjustable length paddle, how to adjust the paddle length for each of them. Then the paddle stroke. This was the basics.
My 170 lb next door neighbor is designated "A" and my 190 lb friend is designated as "B".
Both "A" and "B" didn't like my 8'11" Hammer since they said it was too short in length for them feeling wise and I had already anticipated this since my Hammer was designed for surfing. They did like it's 31" width. The 4" thickness was really noticed by "B". He wasn't fond of this thickness.
The best glide was with the single 9" fin. The second best glide was by the 4 quad fin setup just edging out the 2 + 1 fin setup.
Then came the acid test. My 11'1" One World.
The best glide was with the single 9.25" fin. And oddity was next since the second best glide was with the quad 4 fin setup
"A" and "B" liked the length. But both of them were not fond of the 30" width. Too narrow for both of them. Both liked the 4.5" thickness. "A" had no problem with it's 173 liters of volume. But "B" thought he needed more volume. So I asked him how much volume and he said, while looking down at the waterline on the rails when he was standing on the board in shallow water, he thought somewhere between 185-190 liters.
Both of them liked the 5 fin boxes on my 11'1" One World which could accommodate both flat water paddling and sup surfing. But they both inquired about a little shorter length board, say around 10'6".
Then after the 4 hours of demo riding, then came the "questions" about my One World. Long story short, I told them my One World was custom made for my weight and it's 5 fin boxes and why I wanted 5 fin boxes.
After a long discussion, concerning the small waves on the upper Texas coast where more volume is needed for sup surfing depending on a person's weight and the ability of a board to handle flat water paddling, both of them asked if there was a production made board around these parameters: 10'6" x 32" x 4.5" @ 185-190 liters with 3 (or more) fin boxes.
They both knew I have looked at a lot of boards and were hoping I could remember something off the top of my head, close to the specifications above. I told them I did and I told them about the Blue Planet Duke model and it's specs are: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 liters and it came with 5 fin boxes.
So they came inside my home and I showed it to them on my computer. Then they asked me if I could handle 190 liters of volume since they both know I'm not a fan of high volume liter boards and I told them I could adapt to it and handle it if need be.
So they are going to "think on it" for awhile and get back with me.
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My two friends have gotten back in touch with me concerning my "guest board". Here are their views along with mine.
Both "A" and "B" are not that thrilled with my 11'1" One World's length, but they could live with it especially since I'm the one who would be buying the "guest board". Both "A" and "B" would like a slightly shorter board. "A" does not mind my OW's 173 liters, but "B" would like a little more volume somewhere around 185-190 liters.
Both "A" and "B" know I like the length of my OW along with it's drawn in hybrid type nose. They also know if a board has 5 fin boxes, they know I prefer that. Since they have looked at the waves "generally" found at Surfside, via the Surfside streaming webcam, they both said they could be happy with both a 10'6" or 11' board.
This basically gives me two choices in my way of thinking. These two choices are:
1) Tom Carroll (Outer Reef): 11' x 32.50" x 4.75" @ 185 liters, 3 fin boxes and pulled in hybrid type nose.
https://shop.surfindustries.com/us/surf/stand-up-paddle-boards/all-rounder/tom-carroll-outer-reef-mx/
2) Blue Planet (Duke): 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 liters, 5 fin boxes with a fuller planing type nose.
https://www.blueplanetsurf.com/105-x-32-duke-2019.html
These two boards above would be good for flat water paddling. Both of my friends are like me when it comes to sup surfing waves. They are not into shredding waves. Just a little slow carving of waves and they don't mind a nice long glide type of ride which are found on roller type of waves as well as tanker bow waves.
So in review, the Outer Reef has a nice video which I will post (again).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEfLo9lZUYo
However, there really isn't a video for the Blue Planet "Duke" so I had to try and get an idea what a Duke would surf like in the wave conditions "generally" found at Surfside, Texas.
The closet Blue Planet model I could find for comparison's sake to the "Duke" is the Blue Planet "Easy" and the specifications for it are: 10'2" x 32" x 4.5" @ 181 liters, 5 fin boxes with a hybrid nose. The video for it is below. Just keep in mind most of the sup surfing I mostly do and what my friends also like, in the video below, the woman surfing is what me and my friends favor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuMD1dGdGNc
Both boards, 11' Outer Reef and 10'5' Duke, would be good for a "guest boad". As for me, I like both boards. And this makes it a "not so easy decision". Right now, I'm "sorta" leaning towards the Duke.
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I know that you will say that it is too wide, but the blue planet multi tasker 10/6 has great reviews here.
Also check out paddle surf Hawaii, Blane shapes for Tom Carroll
https://paddlesurfhawaii.shop
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I know that you will say that it is too wide, but the blue planet multi tasker 10/6 has great reviews here.
Also check out paddle surf Hawaii, Blane shapes for Tom Carroll
https://paddlesurfhawaii.shop
I had already checked out the Blue Planet "Multi-Tasker. You are right in saying I'm not fond of it's width of 34". Many people consider 32" wide, a barge. But for me, 34" wide, that is what I call "an aircraft carrier" width wise. But there is another slight drawback for the Multi-Tasker. It is only 170 liters and my friend "B" wants something closer to 185-190 liters. And with a 4" thickness, he might have problems with the board being "tippy" for him for flat water paddling.
Thanks for mentioning the Paddle Surf Hawaii site (PSH). Somehow in my research, I missed this site. So I took a look at the site and the one board which caught my eye, is the "All Arounder 11'0" - Painted PVC.
https://paddlesurfhawaii.shop/collections/all-around/products/all-arounder-110-pvc-painted
It definitely has the Chambers shape which I'm fond of and which reminds me of the Tom Carroll "Long Grain V2". The PSH All Arounder 11'0" specifications are: 11'0" X 32" X 4-5/16" @ 178 liters, 5 fin boxes and planing nose. Nice specifications, but one item is missing. The site does not list the physical weight for this board. I don't know why companies don't list important info like this on their websites. I'm guessing the weight is not listed is because this is a PVC board and at 11' in length, I'm guessing the board is at least 30 pounds or more. I could find out though by calling PSH.
The sticking point is the 178 liters. Not for me, but "B" might have trouble with it since he didn't really care for my OW's 173 liters. But he was also on my 30" wide OW. The PSH All Arounder is 32" wide and with 178 liters, this "should" have a different feeling for him, than when he was on my 11'1" x 30" OW.
Unfortunately, there is no way to demo the PSH All Arounder 11'0" so this presents a quandary for me. So I thought I would get on YouTube and see if there was a video of it. I did find "one" old (years wise) video, but it is from a GoPro point of view. The GP view doesn't let me see anything of the board.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Srmp-_FpM
And I couldn't find any videos for the All Arounder, in any length, on Vimeo either.
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I had already checked out the Blue Planet "Multi-Tasker. You are right in saying I'm not fond of it's width of 34". Many people consider 32" wide, a barge. But for me, 34" wide, that is what I call "an aircraft carrier" width wise. But there is another slight drawback for the Multi-Tasker. It is only 170 liters and my friend "B" wants something closer to 185-190 liters. And with a 4" thickness, he might have problems with the board being "tippy" for him for flat water paddling.
I rented the Blue Planet Multi Tasker in Waikiki and what you have to consider is that not every companies volumn measurements are the same. Just because Blue Planet says it's 170 liters, doesn't mean it would be equal in float to a Wardog 170 liter board.
They list this at only 170 liters, but in my experience it is as floaty as any of the 190 liter boards I've ever ridden. There is no way anybody would find this board tippy with a flat deck and 34" inches wide.
Also for such a big board, it surfed small waves surprisingly well.
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Glowing reviews for the multi tasker and 0 reviews for the duke.
Just sayin.
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Glowing reviews for the multi tasker and 0 reviews for the duke.
You've mentioned the reviews for the Multi-Tasker "twice", but you haven't provided me with a link in either of your two posts where you mentioned those reviews.
Just saying.
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https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,32025.msg357607.html#msg357607
My choice would be a cruse control
Sorry man
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https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,32025.msg357607.html#msg357607
My choice would be a cruse control
Sorry man
:) :)
The Naish Nalu 11-0 is another board that should definitely *not* be considered here.
But I’d love to have one, for my newbie friends, and then I could use it for surf too.
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https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,32025.msg357607.html#msg357607
My choice would be a cruse control
Wetstuff chose the Multi-Tasker because he has a few issues which affect the mobility of his left leg so he needed a wider platform and the 34" width of the MT is perfect for him.
I have an issue with my lower back and it gets "cranky" at times. My lower back issue rears it's ugly head every now and then. Although I haven't had an issue with my lower back in months, I'm always aware of it since it can flare up without notice.
I'll give my my reasons for not making the MT one of my choices.
With the MT's 34" width, at my 5'8" height, I would have to lean further over to the left and the right side of the rails to keep my paddle length and paddle blade perpendicular (straight) to the water when flat water paddling. The 34" width just might cause issues with my lower back.
My Hammer is 31" wide and it gives me no lower back issues.
When I look at a board to purchase, I look at a few factors such as: stability, glide, maneuverability, tracking.
So lets compare the Duke to the Multi-Tasker. For both boards in the links below, there is a chart for each which gives info for stability, glide, maneuverability and tracking. The values given are from "0" to 9".
https://www.blueplanetsurf.com/105-x-32-duke-2019.html
https://www.blueplanetsurf.com/106-x-34-multi-tasker-2019.html
For STABILITY, the Duke gets a "7" and the MT gets an "8". Slight advantage to the MT because of the 34" width compared to the Duke's 32" width.
For GLIDE, the Duke gets an "8" and the MT gets a "7". Slight advantage to the Duke because of it's 32" width compared to the MT's 34" width.
For MANEUVERABILITY, the Duke gets a "6" and the MT gets a "6". Even steven.
For TRACKING, the Duke gets an "8" and the MT gets a "7". Slight advantage to the Duke because of the slightly shorter length, 10'5" than the MT's 10'6". But I suspect the the 32" width of the Duke comes into play against the MT's 34" width to go hand in hand with length.
In the final score, the Duke scores 2 and the MT scores 1 with an Even draw for both boards in MANEUVERABILITY.
Since there are no YouTube videos of the Duke, there is also no videos of the MT either.
Another factor comes into play as well. Me and all of my friends live about 100 miles from the Gulf of Mexico. It takes 2 hours 15 minutes to get to Surfside because we have to skirt the heavy traffic going to work in Houston even at 5:00 am in the morning. And Houston is a very big city which sprawls over a wide distance. I have a shortcut to get to Surfside, but there are lots of traffic lights we have to contend with.
And with the small mushy type waves which are found at Surfside at times, I think the 190 liters of the Duke will be better than than the 170 liters of the MT mainly because "B" weighs 190 pounds so the small waves are going to have to generate the dynamic lift needed to get "B" going when sup surfing tiny to small waves.
So the "guest board" will do more (a lot more) flat water paddling than sup surfing and this is why I'm favoring the Duke over the MT which you tend to favor.
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https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,32025.msg357607.html#msg357607
My choice would be a cruse control
Sorry man
:) :)
The Naish Nalu 11-0 is another board that should definitely *not* be considered here.
But I’d love to have one, for my newbie friends, and then I could use it for surf too.
The Nalu is a sure crowd pleaser and should definitely *not* be considered here just as the Cruise Control
which could probably be considered as the Swiss Army Knife of Sups and therefor should definitely, without a question
*not* be considered here. I'd love to have one for my friends and family.
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https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,32025.msg357607.html#msg357607
My choice would be a cruse control
Sorry man
:) :)
The Naish Nalu 11-0 is another board that should definitely *not* be considered here.
But I’d love to have one, for my newbie friends, and then I could use it for surf too.
The Nalu is a sure crowd pleaser and should definitely *not* be considered here just as the Cruise Control
which could probably be considered as the Swiss Army Knife of Sups and therefor should definitely, without a question
*not* be considered here. I'd love to have one for my friends and family.
Longboard style SUPs are fine for flatwater but I've never liked the way they surf. :)
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Can you even get PSH boards anymore ?
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theres a Wide Ripper for sale locally here in NJ. They dont come up often
https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/spo/d/beach-haven-paddle-surf-hawaii/6880031381.html
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Can you even get PSH boards anymore ?
The name is still around but I don't think it's the same company or boards as back when Blane was involved.
https://paddlesurfhawaii.shop/
.
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Longboard style SUPs are fine for flatwater but I've never liked the way they surf.
Back in 1965 when I first learned how to surf, the longboard was all that we had and there were tons of longboards around back then. I've always liked a longboard style shape and I like the way they surf.
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Longboard style SUPs are fine for flatwater but I've never liked the way they surf.
Back in 1965 when I first learned how to surf, the longboard was all that we had and there were tons of longboards around back then. I've always liked a longboard style shape and I like the way they surf.
I’ve got several longboard surfboards and longboard SUPs, and I understand exactly what Badger was getting at. Why do some brands put the leash plug bar at 90 degrees to the stringer, whereas others put it in the same orientation? I would never consider owning a board where the leash plug bar was at 90 degrees. My friends would probably not like it.
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Longboard style SUPs are fine for flatwater but I've never liked the way they surf.
Back in 1965 when I first learned how to surf, the longboard was all that we had and there were tons of longboards around back then. I've always liked a longboard style shape and I like the way they surf.
I was born in '57. My brother surfed in NH from '63 until 68' when he joined the Navy which allowed him to surf all over the world. He used to take me surfing with him and on small days would put me on his Dewey Weber and push me into waves. NH had quite a surf scene back then and I grew up around it. Those were great times for me.
I didn't really learn to surf until '75 and that was on longboards then as well. Shortboards were very popular by then and I wanted one but I couldn't afford a board or a car at the time. It wasn't until 2013 that I finally became a surfer. I like the shortboard outline because of the way it turns and carves. Parallel rails make no sense to me.
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Nightwing,
This is a very interesting topic to me, that someone would buy a SUP specifically to accommodate the needs of friends that they surf with. Like most, I let friends borrow older models that are generally past their prime and won't break my heart with a ding or two. I probably have five to six sessions a year where I'm out with friends and family learning to sup surf. Having access to up to 6 boards of varying sizes is handy to fit the size of the newby rider. We currently have: 10-6 x 31 hammer, 10-3 x 33 mahalo, 9-6 x 33.5 stoke (my main), 9-2 x 32 stoke (wife's main), 8-11 x 31 hammer.
This march I sent my 9-5 x 33 hammer home with my niece (to Washington) for her to use in the surf and flat water recreation.
She already has our old 11-1 x 31.5 One World.
I've sold another two boards, including a 9-0 x 31 North Pacific (wife's old board), and 10-0 South County (my first). Wish I still had the North Pacific, but we're getting my wife a new board with almost the same dimensions, minus about 35 liters.
One of the late 20-year-old guys we were teaching was out on the 9-5 hammer for 2 straight days when I asked if he'd like to experiment with the 9-6 Stoke. Completely changed the way he surfed and in all ways an improvement. I'm guessing he'd have been rocking on the 9-2 stoke if my wife would have offered it up to him. Everybody is different and will have different preferences. Options help.
If I were you, I'd pick up a couple used boards in a variety of sizes and see how they work. That way you're not dropping your next new board cash on something you may never use more than a couple of times. You know the size of your friends best. The group you described would generally be comfortable on 10' surf shapes in the 30 to 33-inch wide range. I've surfed the Laird models and Naish boards at a demo day and liked a number of them. Try to pick a surf shape in the 9-6 range too, if you can.
There are so many used boards out there now. Grab a couple and see how they work, and don't break your bank doing so. Best of luck mate.
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@ SlatchJim
I'm glad you're fining this topic interesting. Sorry if I go off on a tangent, but since I'm detailed oriented, I do have a tendency to go "in depth".
I could go with a couple "used boards", but I decided against it. You may wonder why I would do this. My answer is very simple. When I was entering the maritime field, I had a few people who liked my detailed analysis of why I did things and the way I did them when I had to use "second hand equipment".
These people in the maritime industry saw lots of potential in me and wanted me to reach that potential with actual results and the only way to do that was with "top notch equipment". And they made that happen for me. The only thing they asked in return was to "pay it forward".
Getting back to my two friends, I've known them since we were sophomores in high school. That is now 53 years (and counting). I don't want them to learn on second hand boards that "might" fit them. In other words, I don't want them to fit into the board. I want the board to fit them.
But, and there is always a "but" with me. With the specifications they suggested, I think I can make the board fit me so that would be added "bonus" as well.
The specifications they suggested would work well for both flat water paddling as well as sup surfing on the waves we normally run into on the upper Texas coast. These types of waves need lots of volume in a board. My 11'1" OW can surf a tiny 1' wave.
My two friends are close to me in age since we were sophomores in high school when we first me. They, like me, enjoyed their flat water session. This upcoming Sunday morning; if the weather cooperates, we are going to take my truck and my two sups down to Surfside. And I'm going to let them sup surf them...........and see how it goes. Since they both have been looking at sup surfing waves on YouTube, it isn't about the ride for them. They told me it is about the "glide". I'm the same way.
If sup surfing goes well for them, then this is why I'll go with a new board. It is my way of "paying it forward" like those who did the same for me when I entered the maritime industry.
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I’m pretty detail-focussed myself, Night Wing, but you take it to a whole new level. The potential issue with being so detail-focussed is that it is sometimes possible to miss the bigger picture: a decision can be made (or more usually, not made) because of some detail which actually matters far less than one assumes. In this way, the search for perfection can become the enemy of good.
Also, the information that brands supply is often just wrong. This is especially true of the volumes quoted, but often boards are not actually the dimensions of weights quoted either. For instance the SIC Bullet 14ft V1 is actually only 13ft 10”... and widths are notoriously inaccurate too. At one time it was a fun sport on here to spot the errors in the Starboard catalogs each year.
There are so many boards to try. And it is virtually impossible to tell exactly how a board will feel, from the data. The variables all interact in such complex ways. The best way therefore is to try the boards. Well, it’s the only way to be sure, if you are someone like you who wants to make the perfect choice. Try not to exclude boards beforehand, and just try as many as you can of all shapes and sizes. It might surprise you where you end up.
I appreciate that choosing for you is part of the fun. But a priori choices only work if the information you have is correct, and your assumptions are too. Very often it isn’t, and they are not, even for the most knowledgeable SUPer.
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@ Area 10
In the maritime industry, companies hire people like me because they need and want people focusing on the details no matter how small or large, "first" and the big picture "second". If a boat captain piloting a platform supply vessel (PSV) makes a mistake, it is a big deal. Mistakes can damage a vessel, put the lives of the crew in jeopardy and can attribute to the damage or loss of cargo.
And if the US Coast Guard gets involved, that is a nightmare for anyone who is the main target of a Coast Guard Board of Inquiry. If wrongdoing is confirmed, the penalties are severe. Captains of platform supply vessels take their boats out in all types of weather, wind and water conditions. This is why they make very good money because of the responsibilities they must innately have, their piloting skills, their smarts, their common sense and their ability to think on the fly to make the correct decision when all hell is breaking loose, even if that decision goes against conventional wisdom.
Getting back to a used sup board, used boards can look good, but if they have a pinhole in them which allows water to enter the board. With a crack in the board which can create a pinhole, water is easy to get into a sup, but getting it out is not easy. This is why in the discussion of guest board, I would rather purchase a new board.
As for manufacturers "fudging" on the weights of their sup boards, there aren't too many places in Texas which sell sups. So there is no way to "try the boards" as you suggest. The nearest largest supplier of sups in Texas is SUP Atx in Austin which is 160 miles from me. But their selection of sups isn't that good (in my opinion).
The next place which has a much better place is Mariner Sails located in Dallas, Texas. And they are 250 miles from me. Mariner carries Hobie, Bote, etc.
But if I buy a sup board from Global Surf Industries (Tom Carroll Outer Reef 11'0") or Blue Planet (Duke 10'5"), it will be shipped to a shipping transport company near me or to a major airport (Houston Intercontinental-IAH) where I can pick it up and inspect it "first" before taking possession of it.
Badger has the Outer Reef 10'6" and I can rely on him for his reviews on his new board. With Blue Planet, since there are not any reviews or videos of his "Duke" model, I have to rely on Robert's knowledge with regards to his designs and I know he tests his own designs on the water. If his designs pan out, they those design plans are shipped to his factory location. I know Robert visits his factory to make sure the specifications to his designs are being carried out to the letter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMcjF1qrpaQ
Although I searched high and low for a video of the Duke and it's predecessor, the Nirvana which was tweaked to then released as the Duke, I couldn't find one.
But I'm persistent. After googling the Duke and Nirvana for "images", I found a site which at the time was selling the Nirvana so I took a look at the site. And it just so happens on that site, I found a short overview video of the Nirvana. At least I could actually see a video of the Duke's predecessor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Yd4Es_0RM
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The board in this category that I’m currently drooling over is the SIC Saber 11-6.
That’s a real do-it-all board, and it has the truly wonderful SIC handle too. It’s one of those details that makes such a difference for day-to-day use, and I’ve also been amazed at how often having deck bungees is really useful on my all-round boards as well.
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Night Wing, the Houston airport allows you to inspect freight before signing for it? They wouldn’t let me do it at the Delta/United cargo terminal in Charlotte. Had to sign first.
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Night Wing, the Houston airport allows you to inspect freight before signing for it? They wouldn’t let me do it at the Delta/United cargo terminal in Charlotte. Had to sign first.
I was all wigged out about my board coming freight when the shop's policy said if I signed for it I was accepting it and they had no further liability and the freight company said no inspection before signing unless there is container damage. The shop said if I was really worried then refuse it, but that 14' cartons never show up without exterior damage. It had exterior damage, I was allowed to inspect it and the interior packaging protected it fine. BTW, I hung on to the box; the damage isn't so bad that I can't use it as a sleeve in my crawlspace.
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... BTW, I hung on to the box; the damage isn't so bad that I can't use it as a sleeve in my crawlspace.
That's a great idea RTG. Just keep in mind, as I'm certain you already know, cardboard will hold grit and can be abrasive.
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... BTW, I hung on to the box; the damage isn't so bad that I can't use it as a sleeve in my crawlspace.
That's a great idea RTG. Just keep in mind, as I'm certain you already know, cardboard will hold grit and can be abrasive.
I have rail tape and I haven't had a noticeable problem yet. It's cocked to one side, so the bottom may get some wear also. If you have to slide it in to where you keep it instead of carrying it and setting it there, something retained in or lying on whatever surface (cardboard, carpet, linoleum, etc) can be an issue.
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Night Wing, the Houston airport allows you to inspect freight before signing for it? They wouldn’t let me do it at the Delta/United cargo terminal in Charlotte. Had to sign first.
I have no idea if Intercontinental Airpot (IAH) will allow me to check for damage before taking possession any board that is shipped air freight. I will have to look into that which means a phone call to Blue Planet will be in order.
If a person buys a BP board, BP pays for the shipping and BP insures it.
For discussion's sake, lets say the air freight company won't allow me to look at the board "first" to check for damage. In that case, "if" I have to sign first and then open the box containing the board, then I will tell Blue Planet I will pay for the shipping costs so I can have the board protected with a lot more than bubble wrap. This lets BP off the hook so to speak.
And below is a short video of how BP ships their boards for air freight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAHDwj9pDAQ
When I bought my Hammer and One World from WarDog (Sup Sports), I paid for the shipping costs and both boards where packaged like they were inside of Fort Knox. My Hammer's packaged box weighed 85 pound and my One World packaged box weighed 99 pounds. At the truck shipping terminals where I picked up my Hammer and OW, I signed for the board, but I also wrote a disclaimer on the signed form.
The disclaimer below is what I wrote below my signature for both of my boards:
Possible Concealed Damage Pending Full Inspection
So when I signed for my two boards, me and two employees from the shipping company watched me open the heavy duty boxes containing my boards.
If either of my two boards were damaged in transit, the disclaimer would leave me out of the equation so WarDog (Sup Sports) and the shipping company would be the ones talking with one another over a damage board. But WarDog takes tremendous care in how he packages his boards for shipment whether it be for air freight or truck freight.
Most people do not use disclaimers when they sign a form to receive their goods from shipping companies. Shipping companies do not want people to check for damage at the shipping company. Once people leave the premises of the shipping company, when people get an item home and after the item is unboxed, if the item is damaged, the shipping company is off the hook. Without a disclaimer, this is how most people get "stuck" when an item is damaged.
I do not let any "shipping manager on duty" force me to accept what I do not want to accept without opening the packaged item at the shipping terminal. Basically, the disclaimer I write on the form gives me legal "leverage".
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I love this stuff.
Thank you Mr. Night W. This has been a very enjoyable read.
I can't wait until it we all find out the results.
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FYI, if you sign without inspecting, then need to return it. You may not be able to simply because YOU cannot ship via airline. Only a business who has been TSA approved can ship on an airline.
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Yes that, and your "disclaimer" or otherwise modified shipping terms might not be enforceable.
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I love this stuff.
Thank you Mr. Night W. This has been a very enjoyable read.
I can't wait until it we all find out the results.
I'm glad you like reading my topic thread. Since I'm so detailed oriented, when I make a topic, I pack a lot of details into it. Sorta like a good "meat and potatoes" dinner. ;)
There has been a change of plans. My original plan was to take my two friends down to Surfside early Sunday morning for some sup surfing with my two boards, stay about 3-4 hours and then head on back home.
It looks like a heavy weather front is heading our way Saturday night so Sunday might be a little dicey down at Surfside. Now the plan is to drive down to Surfside early Saturday morning. We'll leave my home at 4:30 am in the morning to catch the sun coming up on the horizon at the beach.
https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=28.9433&lon=-95.2977
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I thought I was being overly fussy with my Bic Pocket Cruiser thread. Night Wing, you are in a whole different category!
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I thought I was being overly fussy with my Bic Pocket Cruiser thread. Night Wing, you are in a whole different category!
I'm don't think I'm being fussy. I'm just trying to "meet the needs and wants of "A" & "B" coupled with my own like and dislikes of the guest board because I plan on using the guest board myself for flat water paddling, sup surfing and bow tanker wave sup surfing". :)
So in retrospect, "there is a method to my madness". ;)
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I thought I was being overly fussy with my Bic Pocket Cruiser thread. Night Wing, you are in a whole different category!
I'm don't think I'm being fussy. I'm just trying to "meet the needs and wants of "A" & "B" coupled with my own like and dislikes of the guest board because I plan on using the guest board myself for flat water paddling, sup surfing and bow tanker wave sup surfing". :)
So in retrospect, "there is a method to my madness". ;)
I understand. I'm more of a “paddle what you got” kind of person. I try make my rides work for the conditions, probably because I can't afford to do anything else.
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As of today, May 16th 2019, I've got the "tentative" surf super forecast for Surfside for Saturday, May 18th, 2019. This site gives surf forecasts in 3 day increments. Click on the link below and find the date for May 18th.
https://www.windfinder.com/weatherforecast/surfside_beach_freeport
It looks like a nice surf forecast for surfing Saturday since the waves will be around 3.9' in height for the time period we will be there. And it will also be windy with a falling tide.
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It may not be the most accurate but Swell Info is just showing choppy, onshore winds all week for Surfside. I guess that's common for Texas.
Saturday morning does look doable though and Wednesday might not be bad.
https://www.swellinfo.com/surf-forecast/surfside-texas
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I understand. I'm more of a “paddle what you got” kind of person. I try make my rides work for the conditions, probably because I can't afford to do anything else.
👍👍👍
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It may not be the most accurate but Swell Info is just showing choppy, onshore winds all week for Surfside.
Saturday morning does look doable though and Wednesday might not be bad.
https://www.swellinfo.com/surf-forecast/surfside-texas
I've found the Windfinder surf forecast for Surfside as well as the other places I sup surf at (Galveston Island, Bolivar Peninsula) to be more accurate than the Swell Info site. This is the reason why I use Windfinder.
BTW, I emailed my two friends earlier this morning and when they see the 3.9' forecasted wave height, I'm expecting a phone call from both of them telling me they think the wave height is going to be too much for them to handle since they've never been surfing before.
But, if they do call with a case of "cold feet", I've already got a "Plan B" for them since I always think ahead.
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Around 10:30 am this morning, "B" called me, after seeing the surf forecast for Surfside this upcoming Saturday morning in his email. While I was talking on the phone with him, "A" beeped in so I hooked both of my friends up to a conference call.
They both told me they were worried about the 3.9' height of the waves for Surfside for Saturday morning. I told them both I understood that. But since they both know me very well, they asked if I had a "Plan B" concerning a different place.
I told them both I had a "Plan B, a Plan C and a Plan D". So I told them about going to Crystal Beach on the Bolivar Peninsula. While we were on the phone, I emailed them both the surf forecast for this upcoming Saturday (May 18th) for Crystal Beach where the height of the waves would be around 2.6' from the time we arrive till the time we leave Crystal Beach.
https://www.windfinder.com/weatherforecast/crystal-beach_bolivar-peninsula
And I also gave them the streaming webcams, which do not need Flash, for Crystal Beach, Bluewater Beach and Sunrise Beach.
Plan B: Crystal Beach
https://www.bolivarpeninsulatexas.com/Webcams/Crystal-Beach-Surf
Plan C: Bluewater Beach
https://www.bolivarpeninsulatexas.com/Webcams/Bluewater-Beach
Plan D: Sunrise Beach
https://www.bolivarpeninsulatexas.com/Webcams/Sunrise-Beach
I told them the wave heights at Bluewater Beach and Sunrise Beach would be a little lower than at Crystal Beach since I know all of the beaches very well. They liked this idea.
"B" said he would stop by at REI Friday afternoon to rent an adjustable standup paddle since I only have one adjustable paddle. This way both of them can surf my Hammer and my One World at the same time.
I told them to come to my home Friday night and spend the night at my home so they both could get a little more sleep.
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I told them both I had a "Plan B, a Plan C and a Plan D".
You sound like a good friend to have 8)
I hope you all have a blast.
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My two friends "A" and "B" have arrived at my home and they're loading up my truck. Since there is a "Jeep Event" down on the Bolivar Peninsula this weekend; if you've seen the links to webcams to the beaches on the Bolivar Peninsula then you've seen all the vehicles parked on the beach and most of them will be camping out on those three beaches, I'm going to switch to a "Plan E" and take my two friends further down on Bolivar to the old Meacom's Fishing Pier which Hurricane Ike destroyed in 2008.
We should have nobody down there with us. Unfortunately, there is no streaming webcam because it is a deserted place now. Just the three of us along with the usual residents of the beach area (coyotes, gators, wild hogs, rabbits, rattlesnakes).
I may post back Saturday night if I'm not too dog tired, but if I am, I'll post back Sunday for sure.
Since we're all getting up at 4:00 am, we're going to "hit the sack" and get 7.5 hours of sleep and be gone by 4:30 am. We should arrived at the beach between 6:30 am-7:00 am.
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Before me and my two friends left for the upper Texas coast, I checked the wind speed, wind speeds down at the cold Meacom's Fishing Pier and it was way high. Speed was around 19 mph, gusting to 32 mph. Yellow flag warnings were in effect.
https://www.galvestonislandbeachpatrol.com/flag-warning-system/
I knew of another spot on Galveston Island where the water was very shallow. Since the Galveston Fishing Pier is open 24 hours this time of the year, I called the pier.
They guy at GFP said they had green flag warnings at the pier. Wave height was 3.5' about 200 yards out from the beach. I told them I wanted to do so sup surfing with two newbies. He told me to go to 8 Mile Road and the waves at the beach there would be around 2.5' about 100 yards off the beach. So the beach at 8 Mile Road became "Plan F".
When we got to 8 Mile Road, it was 6:45 am and the waves were around 2' in height so it was good sign. Wind was about 17 mph gusting to 28 miles per hour. The waves were breaking into "beach wash" about 75 yards out. I told my two friends to surf the smaller waves closer to the beach.
I sup surfed with my Hammer and then my One World just to get a feel for the waves. I thought the small beach break waves would work for my two friends. While I was sup surfing, both of my friends watched me to see if they could duplicate my moves. I reminded them about what I had taught them on our flat water paddling session.
"A" started with my 8'11" Hammer and "B" started with my 11'1" One World. Both my Hammer and One World were using a 4 fin quad setup (2, 5") (2, 4'). I told both of my friends to paddle out on their knees, then turn around watch for a wave that was forming and then stand up and start paddling fast.
All was going good until they tried to standup. The fell off in the water, lots. When they fell into the water, it was about 4' in depth. Thank heavens for leashes too. But they were persistent and finally after 25 minutes, both of my friends were able to stand up and enjoyed being propelled along with the beach break white water. "A" had no problems with my 8'11 Hammer and my 11'1" One World.
"B" was not doing so good with my Hammer, but my One World was more to his liking. We took quite a few rest breaks so they could pick my mind on what they were doing and how they could do better. After being there 2 hours, they were doing quite well in my opinion. Both of my friends just wanted to "glide to the beach" which they did. They didn't have to change directions since they came straight to the beach.
Around 9:30 am, they felt bolder and wanted to go out to the bigger waves. I told them I didn't think that was a good idea since the waves further out were very choppy and they were all of 3.5" in height. But they wanted to try. So I took my Hammer out and "A" was using my One World. I figured if something went wrong, I would be right there for help. I did the same for "B".
They only thing that did go wrong, they couldn't stand up in the choppy waves since the time between waves further on out was around 4 seconds. Just a little too rough for both of them.
Around 10:00 am, we got out some sub sandwiches my wife made for us the night before that was in the cooler I brought with us. Out came the Gatorade too. At 11:00 am, both of them were back surfing the smaller beach break waves closer to the beach. They were having a blast. They even learned how to turn the boards right and left by leaning their upper bodies right and left. One other item, both are regular footers, "not" goofy footers.
At noon, I asked them if they wanted to return to my home. They said, if it was alright with me, just one more hour of surfing. I said, "its ok with me". At 1:00 pm, I could tell they were tired and they were ready to leave.
On the way back to my home, I asked them which of my two boards did they like sup surfing the best . Both of them told me they liked my 11'1" One World the best.
The one thing they did notice was how "floaty" both of my boards felt. I told them saltwater is more buoyant than fresh water. The other thing they noticed, how nice the glide was with my One World and the speed of it also.
So I asked them would they like to go with me again, both of them said they would. Then I asked them about the length of my One World and they said it surfs "real nice". But I reminded them that a guest board is going to spend more time doing flat water paddling than surfing. They both said they understood that.
They both said for flat water paddling, they thought they would be more comfortable with a 32" width because of the 31" width of my Hammer versus the 30" width of my One World.
Then they asked me if a 10'5" Blue Planet "Duke" would surf ok. I told them the Duke is 190 liters and my One World is 173 liters and it would surf very well for each of their weights for the smallish waves we have here on the upper Texas coast. And I also told them I can handle 190 liters.
By the time we reached home, they were both very tired. I wasn't that tired so I cleaned up both boards and everything else that needed to be cleaned equipment wise. So instead of going to their homes, they are both staying with me this Saturday night and will go home to their respective homes Sunday morning.
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You did good NW. Maybee this thread should be in the share the stoke area.
So when your friends leave, stop by a sup store. I bet they got enough stoke they will buy
their own. No store near close, War dog near online.
I have over 14 sup. You could call them guest boards, but all were purchased for my various
uses and upgrades. I have it covered so to say. No problem bringing friends, but mostly used
by the 4 grandkids we are raising and the other dozen we are not raising. Gotta have a few
paddles for the crew.
Your friends were able to use your two very different boards. They must
have had good balance and strength, especially to handle the hammer the first time.
I would ask if they are ready to make their own commitment.
Round out your quiver. I don't see a 14' or 8', how about a inflatable like ULi
or maybe even the hobie peddle board. That would be interesting for flat water
and probably be popular with your crew.
I started surfing around the same time you did. Only break was serving Uncle Sam.
I give you an invite to head to PNW and try some of our offerings and friendships.
Bring your wetsuit.
You make it interesting NW. Keep sharing the stoke.
Sea ya
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@ 1tuberider
When it came to my 8'11' Hammer, for the first hour, both of my friends spent more time "in" the water than riding my Hammer. The wind was blowing on shore from the southeast with a steady 18-20 mph, gusting to 28-30 mph. The wind gusts were the worst for my two friends.
Everytime they would stand up from a kneeling position to catch try a wave on my 31" wide Hammer, the wind and choppy water would make them lose their balance and in the water they would go. I also suspected, their different weights and the Hammer's 140 liters weren't meshing well. I kept telling them once they stood up, immediately go into a small crouch with a surf stance to negate the effects of the high wind.
Both of my friends did much better on my One World with it's 30" in width. The length of my 11'1" One World came into play here along with it's 173 letters. "A" finally got the hang of riding my Hammer, but he had to get into the smallest waves out from the beach, say 100 yards out where the waves were around 2' in height.
I spent more time riding my Hammer since it was just "A" and me riding it. "B" liked my One World. So "A" and "B" shared riding time on my One World. When "B" was riding my One World, "A" was content to ride my Hammer while I cooled my heals on the beach keeping an eye on both of them. When "B" got a little tired, "A" rode my One World.
There were other prone surfers out there, but their low liter and short in length surfboards weren't getting the rides like we were. My 11'1" One World easily got 75 yard rides just about anytime there was a 2' wave. With the choppy waves being driven by the high wind speed, I didn't want my friends going out where the bigger waves of 3.5'-4.5" were. My gut feeling was not to push our luck. When I first saw the choppy waves and felt the high wind speed, "safety" was the primary factor and having "fun" was the secondary factor.
There really isn't any sup places to looks at a sup in my area. Prone surfers rule the roost on the Texas coastline and there are quite a few surf shops carrying lots of surfboards, not sups. I'm not a fan of inflatable sups or pedal boards. These two just don't appeal to me.
I did find out one thing about my two friends. They, like me, love the "glide" of a sup. Especially the glide of my 11'1" One World. As for my friends' balance, they can both roller skate quite well so I knew they had balance. Just getting their balance used to the dynamic lift of a wave underneath a sup was something their balance never encountered before. But they caught on quick in not optimum wind and water conditions.
When both of my friends left for their homes this morning, they both told me they would keep in touch with me when it comes to a guest board because they want to "pick my brain" on what I like and dislike when it comes to purchasing a sup.
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I put both of my friends on a conference call and we had a nice 20 minute phone conversation for the Guest Board. I took in my physical limitations along with my two friends likes and dislikes and came up with a sup board that all three of us will like for flat water paddling and sup surfing. Might even try tanker bow wave surfing too.
The board we all agreed upon was the Blue Planet "Duke" and it's specs are 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 liters. The link to it is below.
https://www.blueplanetsurf.com/105-x-32-duke-2019.html
I'll give my reasons why I chose the Duke in a new topic, but that will have to wait until tomorrow (Thursday) morning. I'll put the topic in the "Sup Gear Reviews / Newly Acquired / On Order" child board.