Standup Zone Forum

General Category => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: WhatsSUP on April 12, 2019, 08:49:46 AM

Title: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: WhatsSUP on April 12, 2019, 08:49:46 AM
You guys see this?  Interesting.......maybe old news(?)

https://www.surfertoday.com/windsurfing/naish-launches-the-wing-surfer-for-foil-boards?fbclid=IwAR1BeHVFLb_rUCnfMCVyzoiGDzKSNDLuextqmsJrGQPguvPpam5VPMMEltA
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: TallDude on April 12, 2019, 09:09:38 AM
Just ad difficult to difficult. First you have to become good at foiling, really good at kite foiling, and probably have a background in windsurfing, then you can take a beginning lesson with Robbie himself. I don't see them selling a lot of these. Might be fun to take out with my surf sup on a lake. I know how to windsurf and surf, so I'm half way there ::)
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: WhatsSUP on April 12, 2019, 09:25:32 AM
roger that TD!  I certainly won't be in line for one....I've got all I can handle with regular surf SUP.   I watch the kite surfers on crazy windy days at one of my local spots and they scream on the water....(to me) I can't imagine a quicker way to sever or jack up fingers/arm/leg, etc with those lines!  Scares me just thinking about it and some of the guys go waaaaaaay offshore....what the hell do you do it you get hurt, its crazy windy, victory at sea conditions, and alone.  Frig that!

8) 8)
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: yugi on April 12, 2019, 10:32:23 AM
Like Robbie says, hand-held wings have been around for decades but the time is right now. Why? Because foil has little resistance. So it probably works pretty well.

Just a simple inflatable one hand holds. The simplicity is intriguing.

Must try.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: TallDude on April 12, 2019, 11:06:14 AM
https://youtu.be/Fr1XFGCIMFA
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: yugi on April 12, 2019, 12:28:57 PM
^ Flash Austin

Cool. He's the first [good] guy I saw kiting.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: TallDude on April 12, 2019, 12:46:55 PM
Yah... Just switchfoot on a jibe while flying the foil and holding the wing with no mast!  Easy Peasy ::)
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: JEG on April 12, 2019, 02:30:08 PM
I reckon TallDude, two deciplane we have to learn.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: outcast on April 12, 2019, 03:40:48 PM
Makes total sense...
The whole windfoiling in serious waves is notably absent right now....Casey Hauser pushing it  a little bit

Have watched this genre evolve...
Windfoiling is great, but once on a swell, the rig has to go neutral (is useless)...Pop that thing above your head and luff it

It's just not going to feel rigid...mush baggy vs pumping a nice rigid wing

Please note the wrist leash because it'd blow downwind like a balloon if you loose it in the surf....but it'll sell
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: SanoSlatchSup on April 12, 2019, 04:56:12 PM
Yeehaw that looks fun!! Sign me up!!! Could have probably used it outside of the jumbled up windy mess of surf we were trying to fly on today.  :)

Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: TallDude on April 12, 2019, 08:31:10 PM
Could have probably used it outside of the jumbled up windy mess of surf we were trying to fly on today.  :)
I was there at 7:30 this morning and it was a mess. Peaky bombs outside with a mixed up crumbly mess everywhere else. Only two people out. I saw DD heading out with foil. Yesterday was sooo much fun. Head high glassy with some power. They where just throwing. Had great ride after ride with some steep drops. I didn't even wait around today. It wasn't worth it.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 13, 2019, 05:40:47 AM
Really cool.  It looks like Flash has gotten closer on keeping the sail/kite from folding under load.  The earlier guys were doing pretty well also but their sails were folding badly under load.  He has a lattice of what looks to be batten style tubes and two smaller had grip bars.  It looks like he is struggling with that a little (he obviously has amazing skills and is making it look as good as possible).

 I would love to see someone try a similar design but sew in a pocket just behind the inflatable leading edge for a thin but robust carbon tube batten.  Along with the inflatable leading edge it would act as a mast.  It would go from wing tip to wing tip and could be two parts joining at a coupler in the center.  a half boom could attach to that same coupler and would also attach to a sewn grommet about 3/4 back towards the trailing edge.  A batten in a sewn pocket would go from that grommet out to the leading edge batten on each side.  It think that would do it.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: outcast on April 13, 2019, 09:23:04 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDQ-LG6SE2E

Actually looks a little more rigid than i expected

I'm looking for the rig that will be best in 15 mph side on ....still playing with a mast -sail - boom....adding a short grab rope  at the boom for more mobility than a traditional uphaul,  but the wing is promising
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: SanoSlatchSup on April 13, 2019, 09:55:56 AM
I was there at 7:30 this morning and it was a mess. Peaky bombs outside with a mixed up crumbly mess everywhere else. Only two people out. I saw DD heading out with foil. Yesterday was sooo much fun. Head high glassy with some power. They where just throwing. Had great ride after ride with some steep drops. I didn't even wait around today. It wasn't worth it.
Musta just missed ya. Talked w/DD a bit before he had to head back to work. He's always stoked with a great vibe, and he said he "had fun...but it's been better". ;) :D

I too had fun, but yes, "it's been better". Lol. Anyway, with the "wing" I was thinking more like way outside...outside of any of the surf break, and see if a little wind in the "wing", and a little pump of the board would provide enough juice to pop up and keep flying in the pretty decent swell that was out there. Hmmm...

My only concern is that I've not "sail/wind sported" anything, and I have this unsettling picture in my head of me going in at the "OK" sign, and coming out at Trail 6.  :o :-[ :D
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 13, 2019, 11:13:01 AM
Anyone who does wind sports is familiar with the Walk Of Shame. It's inevitable at first. A foil craft should be able to go upwind better than most. Part of the equation is sail design, but the lift/drag ratio of whatever is opposing sideways force is a bigger deal. The rail of a windsurfer is off the charts in the bad direction, a foil is equally in the weeds in the good direction. I think the photo of Robbie wingfoiling with a beach umbrella is a pretty fair illustration.

Admin--no doubt people will built performance versions of a wingfoil, even though the likely market is a tiny handful of nuts like me. I think the Slingshot version that Ken and Rod were testing last summer in the Gorge is a precursor of that. I think the Naish version is in the inflatable SUP realm of performance. My ideal wing would pack down to a convenient backpack smaller than a kite, and have a keel bar that converts to a paddle for those unfortunate moments when everything dies off Wells Island. I don't want to swim this shit to The Hook.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: river on April 16, 2019, 04:55:33 PM
IMO this will be the easiest way to learn to foil board.  WAY easier than downwind foilboardsing at least.  I putin at least 49 hours of Work in at the Hatch and finally learned to DW FOIL.  I'm no pro but I am getting glides now after nearly 40 hours of taking beatings. 
The FoilWIng that Duotone has I was able to get up on the foil and get rides including sdtaying upwind in 1 hour!

After 5 sessions at the Hatch over the last week, I have had a lot of success.  This sport will be fun to watch grow.  I love all the Haters!  This reminds me of all the other cool sports that get big like snowboarding, sup, kiteboarding.  Now, where are my rollerblades because I am pretty sure the Duotone Foilwing would be fun with those on too. ROTFLMAO!
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 17, 2019, 09:13:29 AM
This guy has worked out a really smooth foiling tack and he does his jibe like a duck jibe.  I'm convinced.  The gear looks ready enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWne9kbROsA
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Beasho on April 17, 2019, 09:23:45 AM
OMG!

Count me in. 

That video looks like it was stripped out of the early 80's.  If it weren't for the foil you would swear it was an advertisement for the Wind Weapon. 
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 17, 2019, 09:45:08 AM
This one shows a couple of overhead starts.  All looks doable.  I'm in.

https://youtu.be/Xb1XbqxmusY
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Beasho on April 17, 2019, 10:53:04 AM
Where is the "BUY" button?

It does look like it requires 'windsurfer' wind.  I would expect the low threshold to keep dropping. 

8 - 10 mph sub white caps would be great. 
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 17, 2019, 11:24:35 AM
I agree, it looks like they could make it work in much less wind.  I think I saw 1.8 Meters on the wing in one of the vids (it was definitely in the high 1's, though, so very small) .  Robby has the wing leashed to his wrist but the other guy is just leashing the wing to the board. 

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57247006_2187140104696431_2526953702342787072_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=e3eaf2b493623cedc3560e6a75a45773&oe=5D2B25D3)

This video looks like slalom gear wind to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDQ-LG6SE2E
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 18, 2019, 06:38:55 AM
Looks like I had that wrong.  Chord is 1.8 on this one.  I am not sure what the size would be meters squared.  I read ~ $800 US for a wing.  Seems reasonable.  Does that look like a kite board to you guys or something new?  River, how are you getting up?  Waterstart or stand and lift?

Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 18, 2019, 09:23:32 AM
There are more photos of him around on that board. Appears to be 2020 model SUP under 6 feet.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: exiled on April 18, 2019, 10:27:38 AM
$800 wouldn't be too bad. I was expecting twice that from Naish.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 18, 2019, 11:03:03 AM
Oh yeah. At that price it's not worthwhile for me to butcher my unused kites.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: river on April 18, 2019, 03:50:19 PM
I only have been playing with the 3m Duotone foilwing so far.  I get the 4m tomorrow.  I will report more as I learn more. Yesterday was best session yet with jibs in both directions and almost a foiling tack.  So fun.  I saw this video and it looks like pretty damn light wind to me.  I believe this is the 5m.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dNWsSeKA-g
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: river on April 18, 2019, 04:03:46 PM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l1BzhL3lLmkJ3pRA9e2_9AlIUUwwGLRv/view?usp=sharing

Yesterday
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: river on April 18, 2019, 04:07:02 PM
Admin:  Stand or kneel and lift/uphaul the kitewing, get a little power and start moving the board forward get feet set in position and turn downwind and brace for the FUN!
 
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Rider on April 18, 2019, 06:53:45 PM
“It will change your life”. Tony Lagosz 1995. No nose windsurf board.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Rider on April 18, 2019, 07:00:45 PM
“It will change your life.”Tony Lagosz. 1992 flip tip windsurfing board.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Rider on April 18, 2019, 07:18:37 PM
If you like foiling, you’ll love pickle ball. 8)
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 19, 2019, 05:07:50 AM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l1BzhL3lLmkJ3pRA9e2_9AlIUUwwGLRv/view?usp=sharing

Yesterday

Looks good River.  Flying high!
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 19, 2019, 05:36:08 AM
“It will change your life”. Tony Lagosz 1995. No nose windsurf board.

...and so it did.  But it was '92.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Beasho on April 19, 2019, 04:54:23 PM
I only have been playing with the 3m Duotone foilwing so far.  I get the 4m tomorrow.  I will report more as I learn more. Yesterday was best session yet with jibs in both directions and almost a foiling tack.  So fun.  I saw this video and it looks like pretty damn light wind to me.  I believe this is the 5m.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dNWsSeKA-g

I ask again:  Where is the BUY button?

Do you guys have a secret number to the bat cave?
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Rider on April 19, 2019, 05:55:46 PM
Not sure if you remember admin, but Tony was into a super skinny nose with a ridiculous amount of nose rocker. “Flip Tipl”. We were team hot at the time. Major dimples in the gridlocks. $150 each and we would flip every year. Fun Times.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 19, 2019, 07:52:18 PM
I went by high tech today to talk to Patty Cadiz about the classes Allen is planning to give. I want to play, and I want to do it NOW. I'm sure I could flop around for a few days and finally get it. but I've learned the value of a few lessons from the best instructors, and that's generally Allen for anything in the water. He's still figuring out how to teach this, but I'm willing to be a guinea pig. On the minus side my flexibility and balance will be a challenge. On the plus side, if he can teach me, he can teach anyone.

I'll let you know how it goes. There's no question I'll have one of these things this year, and there's no question I'll be pumping out a lot of wings and other stuff to make downwinding work for fat 72 year olds who never give up on anything but diets.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: clay on April 19, 2019, 08:33:52 PM
I'm super stoked to give this a go, and suspect it might be harder than it looks...

I've been told July as a release date, anyone hear anything different?   And like Denton said where's the buy button?
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 22, 2019, 04:00:25 AM
Here is Kai having a go and a few guys toying with some swell/mush.  I am digging the old school styling of the vids. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0QUKp00HPg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2jsLScOHx8
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 22, 2019, 04:57:32 AM
Slingshot is in it.  They have a page up...and charts!  https://blog.slingshotsports.com/top-5-questions-answered-about-wingsurfing-and-the-slingwing-2019/

Their Wing looks great.  Looks like it may be the Summer of the wing.

A few from Slingshot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQXySPgWlj4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls4V4qob2sw

Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 22, 2019, 11:23:52 AM
Yup, it's going to be fun. Naish and Slingshot are going to a rigid keel tube and strap handles, Duotone with a boom like one side of a windsurf sail. I think both work OK, I like the idea of being able to collapse the kite into a backpack. Then again I can do that with the Duotone and convert the boom to a paddle. Anyway, I'm off to take lesson two. Wish me luck. My knee is screwed, this should be interesting.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 22, 2019, 01:50:31 PM
Good luck :).
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 22, 2019, 05:33:05 PM
Did great. One of the keys to learning something new is downtime and practice of little stuff in between lessons. I practiced a method of getting to my feet that doesn't include a walker rail. The lesson went great, flying the wing and using it to go upwind, wobbling through a slow speed jibe and back. I got the mongo windsurf board semi-planing a few times and almost managed something like a powered jibe--at least I was coasting fairly fast, so I'm counting it. We switched to foilboards and I used Mr. Fugly, which is great for learning on of course. I had the 280 on per Alan's advice. It seemed so draggy I kind of think the 200 would be better, but I didn't get anywhere close to real flying. I got up enough in a strong gust to feel the drag drop precipitously, but I sheeted out before I really got up. Then I fell in and got the leashes all tangled up and had my wrist tied to the board for a few moments.

Bottom line, I'm sure I can do this, and I'm sure it's going to be fun. I think it has much more potential than Sail foiling, both just for reaching back and forth and for downwind runs.

If the stars align, lesson three is tomorrow, and I expect I'll get up on the foil fairly quickly unless I screw up and fall on that giant B-52 wing. I'm pumped.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Beasho on April 22, 2019, 05:45:35 PM
Great report. 

Keep them coming PONO!
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 23, 2019, 03:04:04 AM
That all sounds like a great second day, Bill.  Nice!
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 23, 2019, 03:30:19 AM
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bwl_5JBHKJe/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=13ptsbxxnbyyf

11 videos of Robbie answering question appeared on this Instagram page this morning. Good stuff. Only one size for Naish 4m.

I sure hope there are so few guys with SUP foils out there that we can all get one. It’s going to be crazy trying to get one. Prone foilers are out on this deal. 
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 23, 2019, 04:33:09 AM
I will summarize the videos so far:

1. Wingsurfing is best filmed in blurry sepia.  Yeti/Loch Ness style filming is preferred.
2. If you do use full color to film this sport please reduce the color using a pale filter and apply extra blur.
3. All spoken sentences and action sequences should be partial, preferably coming in mid-sentence and cutting out mid-sequence.
4. The sport has been around since 1932.  I became involved in 1945.
5. It is easy.  (30 years of foiling experience is not required.  World champion history in a related sport is not essential.)
6. One size fits all.  (More sizes will be available as soon as those containers arrive.)
7. Wind range: 4 + on a SUP.  12 - 25 on a foil (slalom, just capping).
8. No waterstarts or sinkers.  (except for kids)
9. It is fun, easy and uses simple gear.  (Large surf foil and Small SUP foilboard suggested)
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Fishman on April 23, 2019, 05:26:18 PM
Admin you nailed it  >:(
I think this video link will be better
https://youtu.be/UBePMBWU018
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Rider on April 23, 2019, 07:19:20 PM
“If you build it, they will come”.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: 808sup on April 23, 2019, 08:18:59 PM
Options...
https://youtu.be/jLxrtGsu5X4
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 23, 2019, 09:56:22 PM
Started off on Fugly today, after a few back and forth runs and some falling and flopping I finally got the wind trimmed right in the right amount of wind, and I was up--no pumping, nothing dramatic, just powered it off the surface and off we went. As soon as I was rolling I sheeted out a little and the small amount of push was plenty to keep the board up without pumping. I went about fifty yards, got into a lull, sheeted a little get through it and all was fine, but I didn't respond quickly enough to a gust, overfoiled, almost caught it on the forgi9ving nose of Mr. Fugly but I lot my balance and faceplanted. I got up a few more times, but I was kind of sloppy. Learning new stuff is exhausting. Alan called me in to do the walk of shame back to the top, but found a chafed spot on the wing where the boom intersects the bladder tube. It had actually worn through the cloth, so that was the end of the session.

I didn't feel tired, so I grabbed some salad at Whole Foods and headed to the west side to foil surf. Surf Lies said there would be some waist to chest sets, and there was. I paddled out and immediately realized that my legs were toast. I was wobbling all over the place. I got one nice ride and a few crap ones where I was all over the place, and decided to bail before I did damage.

My other option would have been doing a downwinder--either a Maliko with a friend from Hood River or a southside run with Bill Boyum. I'm glad I didn't do either. I would have been lying down on the board hoping it would take me to shore.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: 808sup on April 23, 2019, 11:21:45 PM
Quote from: PonoBill link=topic=34671.msg397662#msg397662 date=1556081782 I would have been lying down on the board hoping it would take me to shore.
[/quote
That would’ve been fine on a maliko as you likely would make it to kanaha.
On the south side you would be lucky to make it to  Kahoolawe. If not, it’s a long ride to Tahiti.😉
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 24, 2019, 04:18:56 AM
Here is Ivan's son Nathan Van Vuuren getting in on the action. 

His tacks are polished already.  https://www.instagram.com/p/BwZuFAUHKqJ/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: eastbound on April 24, 2019, 04:59:09 AM
no harness=quick exhaustion..........

Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: SanoSlatchSup on April 24, 2019, 08:13:05 AM
Wow, there sure are a whole lot of videos, of a whole lot of different folks, on a whole lot of different brands....of a product that's not coming out until the "summer of 2019".  >:(
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 24, 2019, 10:35:41 AM
Pulled the trigger on a couple of boards and foils today.  This should be fun.  :)
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 24, 2019, 12:56:37 PM
Only 2 foils!  :D :D

My van

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwpTpnkHeG0/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1un8nlo17qogt
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 24, 2019, 01:40:19 PM
Only 2 foils!  :D :D

Well, Go Foil had this nice little two pack wing offer so we went with 2 each.  4 wings and 3 wing sizes.    That and the two boards should get us started :).

We are ready to flop around.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: TallDude on April 24, 2019, 01:53:29 PM
Wow, there sure are a whole lot of videos, of a whole lot of different folks, on a whole lot of different brands....of a product that's not coming out until the "summer of 2019".  >:(
Probably not for use down here in South OC. One of the reasons I gave up windsurfing is I had to drive 2 hrs to get to any decent wind. Our little blown out capping 12 mph max winds may get you up on a gust, but it won't be sustained. Places that have downwinding like the Gorge (Venturi ) or Maui (Trade Winds) it will work. We get maybe 5 good kiting days a year. With the foil it may work?? :-\
 
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: burchas on April 24, 2019, 01:55:53 PM
That wingsurfer is the first time I see an application that makes me consider a foil.

I'll take one with DW setup :D

Only 2 foils!  :D :D

My van

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwpTpnkHeG0/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1un8nlo17qogt
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 24, 2019, 09:14:30 PM
Wow, there sure are a whole lot of videos, of a whole lot of different folks, on a whole lot of different brands....of a product that's not coming out until the "summer of 2019".  >:(
Probably not for use down here in South OC. One of the reasons I gave up windsurfing is I had to drive 2 hrs to get to any decent wind. Our little blown out capping 12 mph max winds may get you up on a gust, but it won't be sustained. Places that have downwinding like the Gorge (Venturi ) or Maui (Trade Winds) it will work. We get maybe 5 good kiting days a year. With the foil it may work?? :-\

A gust is what you need, once you get up you don't want much, I was sheeting with my fingertips because I overfoiled if I used my whole hand.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 24, 2019, 09:18:43 PM
Only 2 foils!  :D :D

Well, Go Foil had this nice little two pack wing offer so we went with 2 each.  4 wings and 3 wing sizes.    That and the two boards should get us started :).

We are ready to flop around.

Did you get 280's in the pack? You'll want at least one even though you're both skinny. I takes a little fiddling to make the wings interchangeable between masts. 29" masts I hope. Get dragged behind a ski or boat to start.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 25, 2019, 05:04:39 AM
Only 2 foils!  :D :D

Well, Go Foil had this nice little two pack wing offer so we went with 2 each.  4 wings and 3 wing sizes.    That and the two boards should get us started :).

We are ready to flop around.

Did you get 280's in the pack? You'll want at least one even though you're both skinny. I takes a little fiddling to make the wings interchangeable between masts. 29" masts I hope. Get dragged behind a ski or boat to start.

We didn't do the 280's but we can always add those if needed.  200 will have to lift me to begin with (when I get to the wanting lift stage).  I am 165 right now and Chan is really tiny so hopefully all of that will work.  We went with 28.5 masts.  I didn't want to mess with Tuttle adapter plates so we just grabbed the plate versions.  It made sense to me to try to keep the whole kit compact and light so we aimed for that.

My total foiling experience so far is 20 minutes on a friend's windsurfer.  I considered checking that out but long term I didn't think the stoke would be there and Chan wasn't that gripped by the look of it.  We have been watching this one come along and it looks just goofy enough for us.  I like it that there is not a lot of coordinated bouncing after the get up and it looks like the footwork is pretty minimal.  It looks like a lot of guys are staying switch footed on one tack.  I am pretty comfortable with that from sailing.  That should work for me.  My mind says yes (we will see what the body says).  It will be great to mess around with for sure.

Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: ukgm on April 25, 2019, 05:43:32 AM
Anyone who does wind sports is familiar with the Walk Of Shame. It's inevitable at first. A foil craft should be able to go upwind better than most. Part of the equation is sail design, but the lift/drag ratio of whatever is opposing sideways force is a bigger deal. The rail of a windsurfer is off the charts in the bad direction, a foil is equally in the weeds in the good direction. I think the photo of Robbie wingfoiling with a beach umbrella is a pretty fair illustration.

Admin--no doubt people will built performance versions of a wingfoil, even though the likely market is a tiny handful of nuts like me. I think the Slingshot version that Ken and Rod were testing last summer in the Gorge is a precursor of that. I think the Naish version is in the inflatable SUP realm of performance. My ideal wing would pack down to a convenient backpack smaller than a kite, and have a keel bar that converts to a paddle for those unfortunate moments when everything dies off Wells Island. I don't want to swim this shit to The Hook.

Hell, I've done the walk of shame with every sport I've ever tried ! Normally when I progress from the bascis and then use equipment way beyond my skillset.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 25, 2019, 12:15:58 PM

We didn't do the 280's but we can always add those if needed.  200 will have to lift me to begin with (when I get to the wanting lift stage).  I am 165 right now and Chan is really tiny so hopefully all of that will work.  We went with 28.5 masts.  I didn't want to mess with Tuttle adapter plates so we just grabbed the plate versions.  It made sense to me to try to keep the whole kit compact and light so we aimed for that.

My total foiling experience so far is 20 minutes on a friend's windsurfer.  I considered checking that out but long term I didn't think the stoke would be there and Chan wasn't that gripped by the look of it.  We have been watching this one come along and it looks just goofy enough for us.  I like it that there is not a lot of coordinated bouncing after the get up and it looks like the footwork is pretty minimal.  It looks like a lot of guys are staying switch footed on one tack.  I am pretty comfortable with that from sailing.  That should work for me.  My mind says yes (we will see what the body says).  It will be great to mess around with for sure.

Yeah, you'll probably want one though I did manage to get up on a 200 at Swell City for one glorious moment (then right back down again, just standing there, exhausted). Switchfoot is pretty necessary. With my zillion years of windsurfing I was kind of surprised to find I have no remaining muscle memory for which foot goes where and who gets tied up, but other than that it was fairly easy to sail in and out. The challenge is getting all the bits working together.

The getting up part with the wing is not like foil surfing, where you pop the foil wing into a steep climb to get up. Instead it's more like driving slowly off the surface, though some folks pump the wing and board to get up. I tried that and it didn't help me--too uncoordinated--just getting the speed and push up to the right level was all I needed to come up smoothly, like an overloaded airplane, which is probably less of a metaphor than I'd like. I also used the wing to help me get up--my knee is at the end of the six month cycle, needs another shot of goop and cortisone, so the assistance was appreciated.

I don't know where I got the idea that Ken Winner was doing Slingshot--he designed the Duotone (nee' North) wing, which is the one I want. I'll probably get a four and a five as soon as possible.

It's plenty goofy, right up Chan's and your alley.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 25, 2019, 02:12:19 PM
Bill, have you tried your 200 with the wind-wing yet?   I wonder how that is. 

Can you get a little support from the wind-wing when its neutral overhead (transitions) by sheeting in a little?  I am hoping so.  That would be pretty nice.  :)
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 25, 2019, 02:32:13 PM
Admin,

I’m not sure you’ll even need the 200. My Neil Pryde foil (IWA like) will glide in nothing. The issue with this sport is simply getting airborne to break the friction. Then I need near nothing to keep going. Going bigger once airborne is actually bad because you loose glide and momentum.

You actually fly through jibes easier, and stay airborne easier, and coast farther without power when you’re not oversized wing wise.

Hold tight where you’re at. No 280. You’ll see what I’m talking about when you add a little wind power to a foil.

I biggest issue will be getting the wingsurfer. I can’t understand why they sold out so fast. There are so few SUP foilers. Who is buying them? Are Proner mistakenly thinking they can use one? ‘Unless you SUP foil, I think you’re not going to enjoy a wingsurfer for long.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 25, 2019, 04:34:54 PM
I didn't think the wingsurfers were out yet.  Am I wrong about that?  Naish was saying a few in May more in June.  Good info on the foil sizes.  I went with the 200 and the Iwa.  We doubled up n the Iwa and Chan got the next smaller one as well.  Just guessing at this point. 
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 25, 2019, 05:07:17 PM
I think windsurfers are out. Their wings lift at higher speeds. The boards are not designed to allow pumping. When you put a GoFoil (or similar) in a windsurfer, it doesn’t work right. What’s the point if you have a real windsurf foil board. No way you’d choose the wing-surfer. It makes no practical sense.

But yeah, anything works. I’m talking about working right, versus working shitty. Shitty won’t sell wing-surfers long term.

This really is a SUP foil tool. My guess is all the other ways it could be used won’t last long term.

You’re right about them not being out yet, but I know the early shipments are getting sold out before they arrive. Kite shops claiming them that probably don’t even sell SUP foil boards or SUP foil themselves.  >:(

Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 25, 2019, 05:32:19 PM
Here is a much higher quality version of that Kai Lenny video.  Looking fun.  Ozone Wing?  Looks pretty good.

https://youtu.be/GJUlf0588Xk
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Rider on April 25, 2019, 06:01:12 PM
Have you’all thought about flying lessons? Not a whole lot more than boards and foils. Of course the plane costs a bit. When I fly, I go a bit higher than three feet.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 25, 2019, 06:18:40 PM
Bill, have you tried your 200 with the wind-wing yet?   I wonder how that is. 

Can you get a little support from the wind-wing when its neutral overhead (transitions) by sheeting in a little?  I am hoping so.  That would be pretty nice.  :)

I wanted to, but Alan convinced me to use the 280, which looks like I have a Cessna strapped under my board. I used it once in the surf and paddled all the way in from the Ka'a reef to get rid of it. Reminded me of the way Blue Herons glide--so slow they look like they're going to fall out of the sky. But it was fine with the wing.

Yeah, you can get a lot of support from the wing. My shoulders don't like me holding anything overhead for longer than 10 seconds. I could hold the wing above me as long as I like. Just angle it a little and it weighs about negative 40 pounds. That's why I'm thinking it will be fun for Viento runs. If I had to hold it up it would be a disaster. I'm counting on it holding ME up.

No surprise that Kai can rock the thing. Sky Lickle was up and flying in about ten seconds after a few minutes of trying the wing on the beach. If you're that good, you're that good.

It might sound strange, but the wing was kind of fun just sailing out and back on a huge windsurfer. Reminded me af thirty years ago when I was trying to kill myself with Wind Weapons. I've never fallen so far in all the dipshit stuff I've done since. I got so high one time that the mighty Columbia was a ribbon under me. Fortunately I didn't stall and fall like I was holding a hankie that time or I would have been flat and wide.

I doubt serious altitude is in the mix, but one thing I missed after all my wind weapons turned to shreds of dacron was full power jibing in less space than it takes to tack. Alan does that on a foil. zip, flip, and he doesn't even switch feet.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 25, 2019, 06:29:30 PM
Have you’all thought about flying lessons? Not a whole lot more than boards and foils. Of course the plane costs a bit. When I fly, I go a bit higher than three feet.

I flew hang gliders for years. I prefer crashing in water.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 25, 2019, 06:34:18 PM
Don't be encouraging Rider, it's like laughing when a little kid farts in class.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 26, 2019, 04:19:40 AM
Have you’all thought about flying lessons? Not a whole lot more than boards and foils. Of course the plane costs a bit. When I fly, I go a bit higher than three feet.

You are probably looking at 3-4 grand all in.  That should cover you for Downwind SUP, Windfoiling and maybe surf.  That is pretty reasonable when you consider similar sports.  You don't need a car rack, not much storage space, no country club dues, no lift tickets, no boat, no tank to fill.  I have wasted plenty of money over the years but somehow I never feel like money spent on sports stuff is wasted (even for the sports that don't stick).  They all deliver some silly stories...and some will rewrite your life.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: eastbound on April 26, 2019, 05:02:00 AM
agreed---even if discarded, experience with sports gear is entertaining, and generally good for health, and not so expensive in the big picture

and, what's funny, is my gear obsession costs way less than the $$ i spend otherwise being "entertained"---like, eating and drinking unhealthy crap in expensive restaurants--a cost that easily eclipses the money i waste moving gear in and out of my life

and self-propelled watersports are cheap--gear costs, yeah, but engaging the activity is free!

analogous to back-country skiing--gear pricey, activity free--but get anywhere near vail, and get ready to puke more $$ on a couple of days "skiing", than foil gear for the whole family might cost

some day my foil lurking will lead to pricey gear!

Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 26, 2019, 05:23:45 AM
I hear you EB.  It probably goes beyond sport.  There is a group of us that like the process.  Figuring out the steps we need to take.  Measuring stuff, fiddling with positions, walking around in a half daze pantomiming air maneuvers, thinking about locations.  It is expansive.  It adds richness to your life.  What is feeling 8 years old worth?
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 26, 2019, 10:13:27 AM
They just reinforced my point made earlier. Kite shop gets one with no clue and no SUP foil to ride it with. Camera pans to kite foilboard.
https://www.facebook.com/fort2battery/videos/373926446546377/?sfnsn=mo
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 26, 2019, 12:22:14 PM
Alrighty...these might be easier to get than I thought. Cabrinha joins the party

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwulgjRo0rF/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1bgmtusi6s050
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: supnorte on April 26, 2019, 01:08:25 PM
It works. Thereps this guy in Portugal, his name is Arnaud van der Dussen (not a very Portuguese name...) and he is like the Portuguese Kai Lenny, ripping in kite, windsurfing, SUP and now foiling. This is his second ride with a DIY wingfoil

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bwp4MvUndwJ/
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 26, 2019, 03:52:50 PM
Alan Cadiz

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwJGZ-anpsw/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 27, 2019, 05:37:13 AM
Hey River,
When do you guys expect to have your wings out?  Is that something that is already available?
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 27, 2019, 07:44:31 PM
DW's video above is a production Duotone. Last I heard these would be available in July. How a kite shop has one now is a bit of a mystery. Time to give TJ a call at Big Winds and see what gives.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 28, 2019, 05:25:42 AM
From what I can gather, everyone is a little shocked by the interest in this.  I heard a few times, "we don't even have price lists or specs for these things yet" :)
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 28, 2019, 07:38:43 AM
Over on the Aussie forum someone told the Naish price. Converted to USD it was mid 900 range. I was hoping for $800 and fearing $1000.

I wish they’d just get these in the hands of SUP foilers first. Then it would easier to get one.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 28, 2019, 10:19:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T59kcg-A3Q
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 29, 2019, 03:04:19 AM
Who is buying into the idea that people spend close to a grand to do this on a longboard? Will I be eating crow, or does this become primarily a SUP foilers sport. Maybe adrenaline junkies just have a hard time seeing the world through of the eyes of low key people.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw1OnyJDVzB/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1vuemo60woiik
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 29, 2019, 05:35:40 AM
I mentioned this to a friend yesterday who was stoked that he could use one on his 10' SUP.  He thought $800 was a decent price (that is what I told him).  Some of these have the build cost or less of a reinforced 3 meter trainer kite with some added webbing replacing lines etc.  There will certainly be inexpensive options if this advances. 
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on April 29, 2019, 06:18:44 AM
A single strut 4m kite retails for $905.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 29, 2019, 06:36:49 AM
That sounds about right.  I paid $850 for my 5 Meter 3 strut kite (Naish Pivot, it was in-season at that time but it was with a bundle of 4 total kites).  These wings seem like a smaller, one strut, and less complex version of that in most cases.  $800 seems about right.  Will there be a newness tax?
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on April 30, 2019, 08:17:47 AM
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bwhm13OHZG6/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on April 30, 2019, 12:45:19 PM
The duotone kits have a little added complexity--an adjustable boom to tension the center strut and battens to shape the wing and minimize the taco effect.  The boom connects to the leading edge with a plate. the prototype wings I used had no particular reinforcement for the plate to wing tube area, which is how I knew that the wing in DW's video above is a production wing--the reinforcement is obvious in some of the shots.

I talked to the Maui shop for Duotones yesterday--they tell me they won't be getting their wings until June and dealers who DO get them early aren't supposed to sell them until the release date. Hopefully most will ignore that.

I do expect some SUP folks will get them just to play with on their boards. It's simpler to set up than a windsurf rig, and you get to play when the lineup gets blown out. It's pretty easy to go upwind if you use the wing properly--as a wing. It generates more lift than a typical sailing rig would create in the hands of a newb. The first day of lessons we were practicing using the wing on a big windsurfing board with a daggerboard. In the course of staggering around I accidentally raised the daggerboard for a number of passes in and out, and didn't notice the difference. If I kept the wing high and pointed so it was generating lift as well as thrust then going upwind was easy. As soon as I let the wingtip drop some into more of a sail position it was harder to go upwind and I had to stand hard on the rail to make any headway. Trimming the wing more for lift actually made the board tack if I stayed in that position.

It reminded me of my old wind weapon sails, which were a handful until you figured out how to trim them, but once you trimmed them right, sheeting them was a two-finger operation and they flew upwind with minimal rail pressure. They dragged me upwind. If they hadn't stalled so easily while riders were forty feet in the air, dropping like a stone with a hankie tied to it, we'd probably all be using them now. I went straight through my Lanny Schuler custom board in one of those falls. I don't think we'll be seeing any of that with the Wingfoils. Minimal potential for significant air time with no mast attachment.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 02, 2019, 04:24:14 AM
... and F1.  That is a lot of brands gearing up.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwWFcmzl3D6/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwW3fu7FjYJ/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: flkiter on May 02, 2019, 10:26:51 PM
I think after a few months a bunch will be available second hand. Plus being that I see people on Instagram making these out of old kites, soon enough we'll all be able to get our hands on them. Looks like something that would be easy to copy and not need the strength and testing it takes to make a kite.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 03, 2019, 03:44:47 AM
Here is that Duck Jibe style jibe on port.  That looks nice and less drifty especially for lighter wind.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwW7EWpljRI/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Bean on May 03, 2019, 08:26:54 AM
It's impressive how polished wingsurfing has become in such a short period.  Makes me wonder what's left to significantly improve in this niche.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 03, 2019, 09:19:31 AM
It's impressive how polished wingsurfing has become in such a short period.  Makes me wonder what's left to significantly improve in this niche.

I think that the guys who are coming from a kite foiling background have all of these skills already.  I do think riders will find new stuff that works uniquely well with this new combination of gear.  That always seems to happen.  I will happy if I can participate at a basic level.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on May 03, 2019, 12:58:24 PM
I guess you could call that a duck jibe, though it's pretty much the only kind of jibe available with a wing. The only way to get it to be neutral is to stick it over your head.

Hey, wait, never mind. I'm already duck jibing. Took me a couple of years to get there windsurfing.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 03, 2019, 04:36:55 PM
In this one I am seeing him dropping the leading edge towards the water.  Kind of like diving a kite or dropping the mast in windsurfing by grabbing the clew.  In most of the kite wing jibes i am seeing the leading edge is getting raised into neutral, gliding through the turn and continuing over to the new tack.  This is a cool option.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on May 03, 2019, 07:35:39 PM
Actually, it's not ideal. If you get the leading edge low it drops one wing tip low and to the front--automatically and hard to stop. Getting the wing tip low is a problem. In this case it just banged the board, but if it touches the water it's likely to grab and flip the kite over. You generally want to angle the wing center upwards, which keeps the tips up. You'll be experiencing this first hand soon enough. In the Kai Lenny video (other thread: https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,34706.0.html) you can see the effect at about 0:59. He catches the tip and the kite starts to flip. They cutaway before it went over completely, but I recognize the symptom and experienced the result a bunch of times. I called Big Winds today and got on their waiting list. Ten folks in front of me. I want two, perhaps all three, a 3.4 and 5m.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 04, 2019, 02:14:18 AM
I called Big Winds today and got on their waiting list. Ten folks in front of me. I want two, perhaps all three, a 3.4 and 5m.

We are somewhere in that Ten :).  I said we would be happy with whichever showed up first.  They were thinking Naish or Doutone first and there are things I like about both.  When are you back?
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: outcast on May 04, 2019, 06:22:35 AM
Ok

Three things i haven't seen in any vids....2 of three would make me pull the trigger

1.  Pumpability They all seem pretty baggy
2.  Light wind ...4.0s + 5.0's but only seen so far in wind that you could use otherwise....I wanna see 10 - 15 mph or less
3.  Someone luffing overhead on a macker swell...I am quite sure that this will happen soon...but that's what i wanna see...everything else is just another thing for the shed
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Beasho on May 04, 2019, 07:13:05 AM
Ok

Three things i haven't seen in any vids....2 of three would make me pull the trigger

1.  Pumpability They all seem pretty baggy
2.  Light wind ...4.0s + 5.0's but only seen so far in wind that you could use otherwise....I wanna see 10 - 15 mph or less
3.  Someone luffing overhead on a macker swell...I am quite sure that this will happen soon...but that's what i wanna see...everything else is just another thing for the shed

I agree with the Outcast!

Most of the videos are windsurfable.  The whole idea is to take advantage of the

1) Available and ready foil board

2) The low drag, and low speed potential of surf foils and

3) Light air
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 04, 2019, 08:17:09 AM
I like the sound of that as well.  This video shows a lot of promise.  Wavesailing I would be knee deep limping out on a 5.0 in this condition.  I love that condition.  Usually empty waves.  This woman is planing out.  That looks killer.  I imagine that you could point really well with that huge mast underneath even if you weren't on the foil.  That would mean easy outs in super light wind (5 MPH?).  Could you get it foiling with some wave assist?  I have to believe that you could juice it that much. 

https://youtu.be/2dNWsSeKA-g
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on May 04, 2019, 09:31:34 AM
Back on May sixth--flying monday. I've seen the Cabrinha, Naish and Duotone in person and used the duotone. That's the one I want. The others are a bit too floppy.

Outcast--yeah, the ones without booms and battens look too floppy to me, especially with heavier guys. The Duotone I used is pumpable, though my pumping looked like I was doing the macarena. Alan pumps onto the foil with two or three quick flicks.

Most of the people I've seen doing it, and all of my experience is in light wind. About 15 with gusts. I was using a 4M wing and I got up pretty easily once I stopped flopping around. I'm 235, creaky and clumsy. The 3M would take more wind, I'm thinking a 5M will probably be plenty in super light wind.

In a Macker swell I won't be hauling a wing around. Most foiling is in waist high or less stuff or in larger unbroken waves. When the wings get into the hands of guys like Dave and Junya you might see bigger waves being chased, but when I mentioned it to Junya he said "I've had one of these in my hands since I was three (holding up his paddle), I'm not a sailor." So maybe not him.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: 808 on May 04, 2019, 06:13:26 PM
Thanks PonoBill. I am on the list for a 4m Duotone. I am on the North Shore of Oahu and am hoping this might be the answer for fun downwind bump chasing.  Kind of zig zag down the coast surfing bumps.  Not to mention the side offshore surf foiling fun that clearly has lots of potential from watching those videos. 
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on May 04, 2019, 07:51:06 PM
That's my plan too.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 06, 2019, 04:45:16 AM
Here are a couple of vids on non-foiling boards in very light wind.  Interesting because the (very light) wings are supporting themselves in really light winds.  The guy with the attached paddle is heading upwind with ease.  I imagine the same is possible on a small SUP foilboard due to the huge underwater mast (Edit: I added some vids of the same guy headed upwind on a 6 foot board with no foil).  If you have any kind of channel, you are out!  Could you get that foiling on waves?  I bet you can with the additional wind that usually attaches to a wave face.  I imagine we will see some good video of that soon.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw9924VnQXY/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxE1X6enncS/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw4F9-on-AP/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw4GCCKHn3s/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw4GEB7Hlpo/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 06, 2019, 08:49:47 AM
Somebody figured out how to do it with prone board
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxH--s3ILSe/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=vtetezat4qa9
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 06, 2019, 09:49:47 AM
Cool.  Watching that it seems like in windy conditions you could just waterstart.  I imagine that will happen shortly.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: SanoSlatchSup on May 06, 2019, 12:29:21 PM
Wow, props to the prone guy getting for all the pieces working together as well as he did...that was probably a lot harder than he made it look.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: 808 on May 06, 2019, 01:16:00 PM
You all think you would ding your board starting like that with the hard mast of the Duotone wing?
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 06, 2019, 06:12:56 PM
You all think you would ding your board starting like that with the hard mast of the Duotone wing?

No more so than the hundreds of times we hit our boards with paddles.

I never truly thought I beat my board until I started using a Black Project paddle with red painted handle. I have so many red streaks on my foil SUP it’s hilarious
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: 808 on May 06, 2019, 06:35:55 PM
Thanks DW.  I am so excited for this thing. I have visions of my self zig zagging from Turtle bay to Haliewa chasing bumps. From what I gather I can put  the wing in neutral and just ride swell!  If not will be fun just to blast around behind behind my house. Either way it is another way to get me excited about getting in the water.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 10, 2019, 03:34:35 PM
You can order these NOW with 2 week delivery. Who’s going to bite? I am tempted. The stuff I’m hearing from the US brands is pissing me off. Long wait lists and no guarantees you will get one.

https://www.instagram.com/signaturefoils/p/BxSnIsLncsd/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=137c13h21n6i
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Fishman on May 12, 2019, 05:47:56 AM
That Signature air wing looks nice.  Looks like the duel struts could be a benefit.

 My question about these air-wings, is a clear viewing window important or not?
I have zero experience with wind sports but I've seen wind surfers with windows in their sails. The only brand I've seen so far with a viewing window is Duotone.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on May 12, 2019, 07:46:37 AM
Given the general position of the wing, I doubt a window is necessary, but it might be handy sometimes. I've seen some surprising angles that the wings get put into that I didn't contemplate. For example, some of the people going downwind have the wing reversed ahead of them. It makes sense to have the wind coming over the leading edge, but I didn't think of that.

I like the looks of the Signature wing, if I can't get some definitive information about Duotone delivery in the next few days I might cancel my order for one of the two wings I'm waiting for and order a Signature. We haven't been getting enough wind in Hood River for a good downwinder, but there's enough for kiting and windsurfing. I'm going a little stir crazy cleaning up my shop and getting my many projects rolling again, so I might have to go windsurfing or foilsurfing if the wings don't show up soon.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 13, 2019, 03:39:05 AM
I like the look of those a lot.   It looks to be very stable under load.  I can't quite see it in the video but at :06 it looks like they have added some structure or material above the strut that is holding the foil shape near the leading edge.  Ivan mentioned a harness attachment in the vid.  I am unsure how that works.  Great to have clear video to look at! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUJrd36rNwo
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: supunk on May 13, 2019, 05:06:11 AM
Anyone out there using one of the hard framed, original kitewings? Have just picked one up cheap off ebay to try until I can get my hands on an inflatable one.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 15, 2019, 03:58:37 AM
We ended up ordering a set of the SPG wings.  They look really nicely done.  Ivan and Nathan are genuinely stoked on this and are a pleasure to deal with.  I am sure we will get to swap gear this summer with some of the other new stuff coming out.  This is the loft that is producing the SPG wings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnxrwzPThSY
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 15, 2019, 09:39:45 AM
I can't quite see it in the video but at :06 it looks like they have added some structure or material above the strut that is holding the foil shape near the leading edge.

I think you’re seeing, what Naish calls a luff strut. It’s used in their foiling kite, the Boxer. The Boxer is a fantastic foiling kite. We own the 5, 6, 7, 8, 9m Boxers. Jacky and I share those foiling.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 15, 2019, 09:44:52 AM
I can't quite see it in the video but at :06 it looks like they have added some structure or material above the strut that is holding the foil shape near the leading edge.

I think you’re seeing, what Naish calls a luff strut. It’s used in their foiling kite, the Boxer. The Boxer is a fantastic foiling kite. We own the 5, 6, 7, 8, 9m Boxers. Jacky and I share those foiling.

That's cool.  Is the material between the round strut and the canopy firm of just fabric?
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 15, 2019, 12:27:14 PM
I can't quite see it in the video but at :06 it looks like they have added some structure or material above the strut that is holding the foil shape near the leading edge.


I think you’re seeing, what Naish calls a luff strut. It’s used in their foiling kite, the Boxer. The Boxer is a fantastic foiling kite. We own the 5, 6, 7, 8, 9m Boxers. Jacky and I share those foiling.

That's cool.  Is the material between the round strut and the canopy firm of just fabric?

Just fabric. It locks in the profile, while allowing the wing to depower better by luffing.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on May 15, 2019, 04:43:22 PM
We ended up ordering a set of the SPG wings.  They look really nicely done.  Ivan and Nathan are genuinely stoked on this and are a pleasure to deal with.  I am sure we will get to swap gear this summer with some of the other new stuff coming out.  This is the loft that is producing the SPG wings:

What did they tell you for delivery? Duotone is saying June, but I'm impatient, and they won't say June what???
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 15, 2019, 05:30:34 PM
Ivan said they are at about two weeks out with current orders (I took that to mean that they are building to order).  I am going to have them DHL'ed so that should be quick. 

Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 16, 2019, 04:35:44 AM
I can't quite see it in the video but at :06 it looks like they have added some structure or material above the strut that is holding the foil shape near the leading edge.

I think you’re seeing, what Naish calls a luff strut. It’s used in their foiling kite, the Boxer. The Boxer is a fantastic foiling kite. We own the 5, 6, 7, 8, 9m Boxers. Jacky and I share those foiling.

It looks like it is working well.  I liked that they were ready to go but more importantly they really look to be holding shape.  That sold me.  He mentions trailing edge flex battens in the video which I had not noticed before. 
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on May 16, 2019, 08:02:52 AM
Yes, I'm back in HR, no, I haven't talked to Dan yet, I haven't seen him around town. I've bugged everyone else though.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: alap on May 28, 2019, 11:12:27 AM
what about the following scenario, that nobody talks about.

No foiling whatsoever. Regular SUP. More specifically I have an ULI inflatable 9'3" prob 32" wide, volume who knows, I am guessing 180 l
Served me very well for last 8 years travelling to various places.
Nothing dramatic, just classical SUP surfing. Chest high, head high, knee high.

Here is the Scenario, and its common. Cross wind, strong enough to make SUP miserable.
Looks like I can take this thing, and I can go upwind. Nothing dramatic upwind, no planing, may be even shlogging, still probably faster than with a paddle,
go out cross the surf spot that will not be crowded, make U-turn, catch the wave, depower this thing, come in, repeat.

Sorta like they were doing (or rather advertising doing this) on SUP with windsurfing sail, only instead of sail, this thingy.
Plus everything still fits in a hockey bag.

If I hear that this is doable in practice (not in theory) I probably push a buy button.
what do you think guys?
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Bean on May 28, 2019, 12:42:13 PM
One (big) reason why this works well for foiling is the relatively light load on your arms due to the low drag of the foil.  Translate that to an ULI, and you had better have the arms of a silverback gorilla. ;D
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: river on May 28, 2019, 03:34:02 PM
Here is a little video we did at BW's the other day.  A few good tight shots of the Duotone wing so you guys can see it.  One thing you're gonna like better in the Duotone Foilwing is that you can ride One-Handed with a boom. I don't think you can do that with floppy handles:)  ;D 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=FYxx2wehI0E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=FYxx2wehI0E)
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: surfcowboy on May 29, 2019, 07:28:46 PM
River, not to start anything or be rude but the Naish Instagram videos a few pages back show the guy one handing a Naish.

Also, he’s on a longboard and isn’t getting much arm pull. I think this and an ULI would be a fun rig for when the wind sucks.

I might try this before learning to foil as I’d love something to do when it’s windy and can’t fathom figuring out a kite or windsurfer. Keep this in the car and if you get to the beach late just pull this out and go. At my weight I’ll bet I could make a 9’0 regular longboard work with a knee start and popup.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 30, 2019, 03:25:31 AM
I think the videos are getting better as the riders get more time in these. Why do these embed sometimes, but not all the time? Admin...
https://www.instagram.com/tv/ByEBuFYHATd/?igshid=1wujn6y69tnkx
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 30, 2019, 04:00:13 AM
My instructions:

Copy the Instagram title.  Go to YouTube and paste it into the search field.  :).  I will look into improving our site recognition of all Instagram URL's.  But, sheesh, look at the YouTube quality difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67JgSz1bIk0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItYsnHMByyQ
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: river on May 30, 2019, 10:14:11 AM
@surfcowboy
I was only referring to riding one-handed while foilboarding.  I see in the video he is indeed riding one-handed around at 5 mph, which is one thing but I just don't believe you will have the control to ride with confidence with one hand using a handle style/center strut style wing.  Time will tell and I would put $$$ on the fact that the boom system will outperform all other inflatable center strut ddesigns.  They will either copy or innovate which is cool.  I believe Ken WInner has prototyped more wings over the last several years than all other mfg's combined.  It's a wide open field right now so lets see what happens.  Pretty cool how far SUP has come in the last 10 yrs.  I am just stoked to see and experience the evolution ;D



Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on May 30, 2019, 01:24:50 PM
WTF, in stock, in the UK

https://www.thesupco.com/accessories-c4/windsurf-rigs-c91/duotone-wing-foil-p628
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: JEG on May 30, 2019, 02:43:52 PM
a lot of nice wings out though I'm gonna wait and see but I'm keen to get this new buzz.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on May 30, 2019, 04:15:07 PM
Boomless one handed foiling here. 

https://youtu.be/pUJrd36rNwo?t=77
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: surfcowboy on May 30, 2019, 07:40:01 PM
River, all good man. I can see the advantage of the boom.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on June 16, 2019, 04:37:45 AM
Some windier action and (River ?) getting down to the water and putting in with the full kit. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByxIo6YnJyr/
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Beasho on June 16, 2019, 08:18:00 AM
Good video on Duotone wing:

https://youtu.be/FYxx2wehI0E
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Wetstuff on June 16, 2019, 12:27:45 PM
Dwight - that was 'pre-order' ...looks like late June delivery. 

Jim

Revised: Boom appears to be in stock.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Wetstuff on June 16, 2019, 12:52:29 PM
I sorta cannot leave this alone...  Is Bean not correct? 

There is no mast set into the hull like a windsurfer, iceboat, skiff, etc. transferring drive to the hull thru the mast step ...there is no harness to leverage against like in kitesurfing  ...therefore you may need the arms of a gorilla if you are not running a foil that has a lot less drag as he mentions ..or you spill a ton of the available power.

Dwight, you're an engineer ...can you transfer useful power with one hand, if you are not already overpowered?  I would like to think this might work in less than Tenerefe conditions.

Jim
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on June 16, 2019, 05:48:51 PM
I sorta cannot leave this alone...  Is Bean not correct? 

There is no mast set into the hull like a windsurfer, iceboat, skiff, etc. transferring drive to the hull thru the mast step ...there is no harness to leverage against like in kitesurfing  ...therefore you may need the arms of a gorilla if you are not running a foil that has a lot less drag as he mentions ..or you spill a ton of the available power.

Dwight, you're an engineer ...can you transfer useful power with one hand, if you are not already overpowered?  I would like to think this might work in less than Tenerefe conditions.

Jim

Yes indeed, Bean is NOT correct. I think I kept track of the negatives there.

What you're missing is the amount of force required when you are up and flying. Anyone who has done windfoiling already understands it--you control the boom with your fingertips. And that's a sail, not a wing. With the wing flying the control forces are very light, and with the foil flying the amount of energy required to keep it going is ridiculously low--which is why you can surf unbroken swells and go three times faster than a surfboard.

Wingfoiling requires even less pressure on the booms. In the video of Dan herking around at Dougs beach (I think) it looks like he's using a lot of force, but as soon as he jibes you see what's really going on--fingertip control. One hand on the boom--for a long way--and when he gets his second hand back on the boom he's giving it tentative little fingertip pulls. How often do you see that with a windsurfer? Never comes to mind. Yeah, I'm going with never. No harness required.

It's going to be 99% a foil sport I expect. Even people that buy one to play around on a SUP are going to come to their sense pretty quickly. Of they'll grow Gorilla arms.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Wetstuff on June 17, 2019, 09:20:21 AM
Copy that, PB...   I can see plenty of 'no resistance' off-water methods of conveyance, but I also see plenty of maxillofacial surgery from the inevitable faceplants.  As an ex-kiter, I find this very attractive, but I'm not about to flop around on a SUP luffing a wing.

Jim
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: PonoBill on June 17, 2019, 10:25:28 AM
I'm a pro at face plants, they're actually safer than falling off the side. At least that's what I keep telling myself.

And yeah, the wing adds a lot of moving parts. I was surprised that it's as manageable as it actually is--at least the Duotone is. I didn't have much luck with the Naish.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: laszlo on June 17, 2019, 10:47:19 PM
I was thinking that a wing on a regular downwind SUP board might be just the ticket for Gorge downwinders. All you need is enough momentum to get you into a swell, and a wing would be more efficient than paddling. Turning a 16' board would be challenging, but you don't really need to make any hard turns downwinding.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Fishman on June 18, 2019, 03:23:23 PM
People comparison opinions are interesting. This from surfer forum "I got a Signature twin strut wing from the guys on that website spacestick.
Rode the Naish demo in Hawaii and it was so fun. But then rode a twin strut and it has WAY more control.
One hand on top strut and one on bottom."

From SB
"Long vid in german language.
They gave a Duotone and a Slingwing to absolute beginners to test and compare.
Verdicts:
- Duotone easier for beginners, softer, easy to pump, easy to vary grip position
- Slingwing more stable in flight
- Duotone light (2,9 kg) and a little "fragile" materials ("like a kid rig")
- Slingwing heavy (3,8 k) but build with solid materials
- No substitute for light wind windsurf/kite foiling, needs at least 15 knots for easy flying
- shi...y to watch but fun to do

gleiten.tv/index.php/video/action/story/v/3275/s/63/page/436/ "
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Dwight (DW) on June 27, 2019, 12:26:43 PM
https://youtu.be/d2LYjCYdD7s

I like what he says
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on June 27, 2019, 02:02:18 PM
That is a great video from Slingshot.  I am on board with what he is saying about roll.  I still haven't made my little roll bar but I will.  Before you are moving this would be a great feature.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: JEG on June 27, 2019, 02:23:52 PM
https://youtu.be/d2LYjCYdD7s

I like what he says

slingwing sounds like a great wing.
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Admin on June 27, 2019, 02:30:07 PM
The nice videos are coming quick now.  Some great action in here:

https://www.facebook.com/wingdotsurf/videos/2419994851611889/
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: Surfside on June 27, 2019, 05:55:01 PM
Just saw this in their promotional email...Delivery starts August 1st so visit your local Slingshot Dealer to see it LIVE

Darn, another month...
Title: Re: "Wingsurfer" for Foil/SUP
Post by: clay on June 28, 2019, 07:13:36 AM


From SB
"Long vid in german language.
They gave a Duotone and a Slingwing to absolute beginners to test and compare.
Verdicts:
- Duotone easier for beginners, softer, easy to pump, easy to vary grip position
- Slingwing more stable in flight
- Duotone light (2,9 kg) and a little "fragile" materials ("like a kid rig")
- Slingwing heavy (3,8 k) but build with solid materials
- No substitute for light wind windsurf/kite foiling, needs at least 15 knots for easy flying
- shi...y to watch but fun to do

gleiten.tv/index.php/video/action/story/v/3275/s/63/page/436/ "

I found it really helpful seeing how they get up in this video, here's the YouTube link:
https://youtu.be/zgjPjQYPmxM