Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: Bean on February 23, 2019, 09:47:46 AM
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Just took delivery of a Black Project Hydro, ordered through Big Winds, but shipped directly from BP on Maui, 2 day air. Looking to get out this afternoon for a little test paddle.
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Hope you like it, it seems like you've been on that quest for a while now.
It's not the cheapest even with the sale.
The thing that stayed with me with Black Project was their T-Handle which
is the best in the business IMO. I saw they only offer it with the Palm Grip,
can't remember if their interchangeable but if it is would probably check it.
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It’s such a shame that so few brands off t-handles these days. I’m waiting for a brand to come up with swappable handles of different sizes and shapes, for different hand sizes and activities. Surely there could be some money in that? I used to be able to buy palm grip or t-handles for e.g. my Kialoas about 10 years ago, but since then we seem to have gone backwards in what customers can standardly order.
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Love the T on my Kialoas but the palm on the new Hydro is the best feeling grip I’ve experienced in a distance paddle.
I only had it out for a short paddle yesterday, but the 83 feels great, it’s a keeper for sure.
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I'm stating the obvious but KENALU has a Classic T handle available on all their paddles
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
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Yes, and I really like Kenalu paddles, but Black Project also offers several handle options and one of, if not the best 3 piece travel paddle on the planet.
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BP is a nice paddle, but they need more R & D with their shaft's and hopefully, the new shaft options might be better now though not 100% sure.
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I actually have the old design shaft and so far it works fine for me.
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It’s such a shame that so few brands off t-handles these days. I’m waiting for a brand to come up with swappable handles of different sizes and shapes, for different hand sizes and activities. Surely there could be some money in that? I used to be able to buy palm grip or t-handles for e.g. my Kialoas about 10 years ago, but since then we seem to have gone backwards in what customers can standardly order.
Ummm. I know no one ever talks about them here, but have you ever heard of Ke Nalu?
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It’s such a shame that so few brands off t-handles these days. I’m waiting for a brand to come up with swappable handles of different sizes and shapes, for different hand sizes and activities. Surely there could be some money in that? I used to be able to buy palm grip or t-handles for e.g. my Kialoas about 10 years ago, but since then we seem to have gone backwards in what customers can standardly order.
Ummm. I know no one ever talks about them here, but have you ever heard of Ke Nalu?
Yes, and I’ve owned two. But the handle options are limited in terms of size. And I can’t get Ke Nalu t-handles locally here in the UK anyway, which is a shame because I quite liked the extended ergo-T I had (which I imported from the US back in the early days). And I want oval shafts please :)
What I was envisaging was a size chart where brands would show hand size measurements like clothing brands would do for gloves, and then different handle sizes to suit. After all, we cut shafts to suit us and choose blade sizes to suit us. So why not have a range of different handle sizes and shapes to suit us? I’d pay extra for the option for sure. There must be a lot of women and men with smaller hands (or those who want a more flickable handle) who would prefer a smaller handle. And perhaps some who eg. do endurance events or have big hands who want bigger ones.
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...I’d pay extra for the option for sure...
Now you said the magic word, which opens up few opportunities for
you. I thought you'd get there sooner and get your self a custom
by now? It is the most important piece of equipment after all.
It's not like you don't already have 10-15 paddles, when I got there,
I started mixing & matching between parts of different manufacturers
and actually found some really good combinations.
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Yup, when you find a paddle that’s fits you, it’s magic. I’ve felt that a few times, the first, many years ago with a Kialoa Shaka Puu, then a couple of years later, a Kenalu Wiki, followed by an early Hulu and now finally the Hydro.
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...I’d pay extra for the option for sure...
Now you said the magic word, which opens up few opportunities for
you. I thought you'd get there sooner and get your self a custom
by now? It is the most important piece of equipment after all.
It's not like you don't already have 10-15 paddles, when I got there,
I started mixing & matching between parts of different manufacturers
and actually found some really good combinations.
I’ve got a lot more paddles than that :)
For most paddling, my QB vdrive 71 with oval tapered shaft suits me perfectly. But I’d like a paddle for surfing that has a t-handle, oval shaft, and small blade. It turns out that there aren’t many options like that.
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The feel of the oval shaft and proper T is what sends me back to my Kialoa surf paddles. There is nothing better for popping up between sets and sending it without even looking to align the blade.
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The feel of the oval shaft and proper T is what sends me back to my Kialoa surf paddles. There is nothing better for popping up between sets and sending it without even looking to align the blade.
Absolutely. If the GL Surf paddle I have had a smaller blade, I’d need to look no further. But Kialoa have stopped using oval shafts, unfortunately, so I can’t buy one with a smaller blade and the original GL puts too much strain on me.
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I do like the BP blades and if you can find a shaft to match it with or with other brand it will be magic.
I like both palm and T handle though the T does give you a better feel of grip but the palm is just as good, it's a personal thing.
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Oval shafts are just a bitch to make. The Kialoa oval shafts were made over soft urethane mandrels that get pulled out once the epoxy is hard. The stretching from pulling shrinks the mandrel so it can be removed. But the mandrels eventually wear or break so there is a consistent expense that doesn't decline with volume. Tapered shafts are built on metal mandrels and are relatively easy to make. As soon as the mandrel is upset laterally it comes loose so it's easy to remove. Oval tapered is a possibility but the mandrels would be eye-wateringly expensive. Those kinds of design choices can easily double the cost of a shaft.
The motorsports solution for complex hollow shapes is inflated bladders that press a woven sleeve into a female mold. Out of the question for anything that's supposed to cost a few hundred dollars. An aerodynamically shaped carbon fiber suspension strut is a few thousand dollars.
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Don’t care how much it costs, I just want an oval shaft! I have never broken a paddle in 12 years of frequent SUP. So I’ll take the risk of the extra expense. I’ve got a load of round shaft paddles sitting around unused because, at the end of the day, oval shafts give you so much more control, precision, and feedback.
So please make a few. By all means charge an arm and a leg for them. But to not even bother is just... disappointing. QB manages it. ZRE manages it. Some others do too (Chinook?). So, yep, it’s hard. But it’s not *that* hard, is it?
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You could build a one off shaft out of foam any shape you want any grade CF you want - simply dissolve the foam once the CF is cured with acetone.
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Don’t care how much it costs, I just want an oval shaft! I have never broken a paddle in 12 years of frequent SUP. So I’ll take the risk of the extra expense. I’ve got a load of round shaft paddles sitting around unused because, at the end of the day, oval shafts give you so much more control, precision, and feedback.
So please make a few. By all means charge an arm and a leg for them. But to not even bother is just... disappointing. QB manages it. ZRE manages it. Some others do too (Chinook?). So, yep, it’s hard. But it’s not *that* hard, is it?
I don't have anything to do with Ke Nalu anymore--not for at least five years, other than still using the paddles. So NO.
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Don’t care how much it costs, I just want an oval shaft! I have never broken a paddle in 12 years of frequent SUP. So I’ll take the risk of the extra expense. I’ve got a load of round shaft paddles sitting around unused because, at the end of the day, oval shafts give you so much more control, precision, and feedback.
So please make a few. By all means charge an arm and a leg for them. But to not even bother is just... disappointing. QB manages it. ZRE manages it. Some others do too (Chinook?). So, yep, it’s hard. But it’s not *that* hard, is it?
I don't have anything to do with Ke Nalu anymore--not for at least five years, other than still using the paddles. So NO.
My post wasn’t aimed at you specifically. It was aimed at all the (many) brands who currently do not offer oval shafts. As I said, Quickblade have done extremely well out of theirs. So there must be money in it, even if not a lot. If Ke Nalu or any other brand finds making oval shafts too difficult then fine, you won’t be getting my money. I guess this is one of the reasons why QB are top of the tree right now.
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Don’t care how much it costs, I just want an oval shaft! I have never broken a paddle in 12 years of frequent SUP. So I’ll take the risk of the extra expense. I’ve got a load of round shaft paddles sitting around unused because, at the end of the day, oval shafts give you so much more control, precision, and feedback.
So please make a few. By all means charge an arm and a leg for them. But to not even bother is just... disappointing. QB manages it. ZRE manages it. Some others do too (Chinook?). So, yep, it’s hard. But it’s not *that* hard, is it?
I don't have anything to do with Ke Nalu anymore--not for at least five years, other than still using the paddles. So NO.
My post wasn’t aimed at you specifically. It was aimed at all the (many) brands who currently do not offer oval shafts. As I said, Quickblade have done extremely well out of theirs. So there must be money in it, even if not a lot. If Ke Nalu or any other brand finds making oval shafts too difficult then fine, you won’t be getting my money. I guess this is one of the reasons why QB are top of the tree right now.
The reason I stopped using Quickblade was their shafts, especially their oval tapered. IMO
It doesn't come close to a true oval shat like the ZRE where you have a solid grip in your palm.
That is until I converted my QB blades to fit into my ZRE shafts, same goes for my KeNalu Mana.
Now that I have 6 oval shafts each with a different flex and 3 different finishes including a true
textured. All of them are travel ready with 10" range of adjustment and can accept 6 different
grips including a ZRE T, a Kialoa T and double bend extended T, QB Small P40 and the other 2
ZRE ergo plam grip in different sizes.
Now the possibilities are endless and I can use my favorite blade and grip for a certain discipline
or condition. I use several blades with 2 different grips but the one constant is the shaft.
The adjustability comes really handy when the range of boards I use it with goes from standing
at water level to 4" above the water level.
If you're looking to spend some extra money which obviously you are willing to, you can
really cover all your bases. Alternately you can keep buying more paddles and keep bitching
about the lack of options. Personally, I'm not one to bitch but my wife tells me it's really fun
when you get to a certain level of mastery, she is a true master as in master Yoda level ;D
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But wouldn’t it have been easier if you hadn’t had to go to that trouble?
I had a ZRE oval shaft, but it was too big a diameter and too stiff for my liking.
My point was that I’ve stopped buying paddles now, because I can’t get what I want.
Yes, maybe I’ll consider some Frankenstein option, using the bits and pieces I already have. But I’d rather be able to buy what I want off the shelf. I’m surprised that that suggestion is proving so controversial.
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But wouldn’t it have been easier if you hadn’t had to go to that trouble?
I had a ZRE oval shaft, but it was too big a diameter and too stiff for my liking.
My point was that I’ve stopped buying paddles now, because I can’t get what I want.
Yes, maybe I’ll consider some Frankenstein option, using the bits and pieces I already have. But I’d rather be able to buy what I want off the shelf. I’m surprised that that suggestion is proving so controversial.
I know you had it and I still have that one. Things change you know and products progress
If you're willing to spend a little more. Mine is a smaller diameter than the original shaft and
as far as stiffness, I have one more flexible than the QB flyweight shaft, do you need more?
Your suggestion is not controversial just unrealistic apparently. If there was enough demand
companies would turn up with these options, I know, I called and bugged just about all of them.
It seems like only you and I care enough for this judging by the amount of paddles we have
between us but once realized nothing is going to happen I decided to go another route which turn
out to be very successful for my needs.
Bottom line, you already throwing around a lot of money in a search for unicorn, seems to me it
would be more productive to spend some more and get exactly what you want, if enough people
see it and like it, companies will wake up, that's exactly what happened with shaft texture, started
with grip enhancers and now I see companies turning up with real textured shafts.