Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: toolate on February 20, 2019, 08:41:14 AM
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I recently stepped down from a JL SG 8'7 to a ST 7'10. I must say i had agonized about the move thinking it was going to be too small. Quite the opposite! First time out and I knew i had been on a board too big. (mind you i only weigh 155). But the feeling of control makes me realize that sometimes the larger board would get away from me. Now I know that in high winds and chop that longer waterline will come in very handy (especially I do miss the better tracking).
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This is a MUCH better feeling than the remorese and ultimate pain of knowing you went too small! (mostly for your wallet!) So congrats on that!!!!!
That's the rub with Sup Surfing Boards- Especially 4 season Sup Surfing. (Trunks to 6mm suits)
The balance of ability;weight and volume is so easily put out of whack. Its crazy to me I can surf on two prone boards all year (any conditions, any mount of wetsuit and give or take 10-15 lbs in weight)
Moving around 20 lbs in weight (either body or wetsuit) Could require a 3-4 board quiver of shapes and volumes for Sup Surfing.
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I recently stepped down from a JL SG 8'7 to a ST 7'10. I must say i had agonized about the move thinking it was going to be too small. Quite the opposite! First time out and I knew i had been on a board too big. (mind you i only weigh 155). But the feeling of control makes me realize that sometimes the larger board would get away from me. Now I know that in high winds and chop that longer waterline will come in very handy (especially I do miss the better tracking).
Give it a couple of months on the new board and you will probably feel you can go down in size again. The smaller you go the better performance you will get. You will notice a big jump in performance when you drop below a guild factor of 1.3. At 155lb a GF of 1.3 would be 92L.
I feel that many people ride boards with too much volume. If you can cruise the line up comfortably or stand without paddling then you can definitely go with a lower volume board.
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A matter of preference. I like being able to cruise the lineup and stand without paddling. When conditions permit I try to surf a wave aggressively, crank a bottom turn to a top turn and pump down the line. Then there is the Paddle pack out through beach break all for me at least take a lot of energy (especially in a 6mil suit) so when I get back out I can stand or cruise and recover. I’m sure I can go lower volume but for sup surfing at 55, volume is my friend.🙂
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I am with LBsup, volume in a SUP is no problem.
For me SUP is an easy going high volume affair. Cruising the lineup and rolling into waves is the whole point. You can still surf pretty vertical with the right board around 160L at my weight, but wobbling in the lineup or having to sit is not much fun for me.
If I go below 130L it needs to be a surfboard or I have to sit and wobble around, then stand up when it is time to surf and when I get on a wave it is at the same place I could have caught it on a prone board. Of course I weigh 70lb more than toolate so maybe this is all relative?
The most compliments I have ever gotten while surfing was while prone surfing an 8'+/- Riviera SUP I borrowed. The near 4" of thickness plus the 30" of width meant easy wave catching momentum and I could almost make no mistakes during the pop up and crank on the turns. I have been looking for a used one ever since.
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i suspect much of what you are saying is that 70 lbs difference.
But not all of it. I like the workout of a hard board to stand on. At my age i badly need it.
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Do you guys only surf in one type of condition and surf the same way every time you go out? I surf mostly my 10-4 but I also like my 9-8 and 8-0....all very different from one another. Conditions, how I feel like surfing, and simply how I feel that day dictate what I use. I often bring multiple boards and surf them all. Sometimes it's even the 14. Making a steep drop on my 8-0 (I have to be in with the shortboarders) or catching one 200 yards out on my 14...it's all good.
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Ever since I was a kid I had a quiver of boards. Once the two ends were a Local Motion 5’-10” twin fin and a 10’ Eliminator ‘60s log.
Now weighing 200# the range goes from 119l on the low end to 200l on top.
The differences are quite an enjoyment and also add much flexibility to deal with all the variables a session can bring.
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The smaller you go the better performance you will get. You will notice a big jump in performance when you drop below a guild factor of 1.3. At 155lb a GF of 1.3 would be 92L.
I feel that many people ride boards with too much volume. If you can cruise the line up comfortably or stand without paddling then you can definitely go with a lower volume board.
Absolutes do not exist in SUP.... absolutely ;D ;D
I understand that you are talking to the advanced SUPsters....
but many folks read these forums looking for Volume advice and I want to provide an alternative viewpoint
One thing I have learned after helping 1,000's of people select the proper board is:
everyone has different:
goals, surf ability, physical ability, waves, wind, weather
Their vision for where they see themselves heading, are as different as the waves they surf, or conditions they paddle
I do not experience a big jump in performance when I drop below 130
It works exactly the opposite for me.
The most effective performance band for me is loosely best at 1.4, but can be lower if surface area is sufficient and rocker flatter.
At 70, I find that I lack the muscle resources to make up for "low power" moments on a wave.
I bobble and stall on low liter boards.
I need more "carry" to keep me "powered up" for carving.
My observation after paying attention for the entire "Short SUP revolution":
The really advanced SUPsters get better on low liters
Everyone else surfs exactly the same, no matter what board they are on..... but struggle more on their "hot new shortboard"
We all love the search for the next board, and that keeps us stoked and renewed!
Shapes improve constantly and give us alternatives to simply lower liters or short length.
also:
While I agree that low liter boards can be good for our fitness.....
in cases of bad knees and hips etc, they can do serious damage to weak joints.
My quiver shows that I agree with everyone on "proper" board size ;D ;D ;D
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Yes. You can still have fun on a board that is bigger than you need. But a board that is smaller than you need is miserable.
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Put me in the big board camp. Everyone is different but for me SUP surfing is about cruising, comfort, and long board feel. I love surfing a 14' board and my favorite surf SUP is a 10 year old 10' 6" Laird (154 Liters). For me I have never enjoyed going smaller. But enjoy what works for you, just don't fall into the FOMO trap that smaller is always better for everyone.
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As a new 50 year old two things really ring out to me about this thread. One is Creeks point about the extra wear and tear on joints adapting to smaller boards. I had a partial knee replacement 9 weeks ago and the instability of paddling narrow boards was the final straw for an already deteriorating situation. Two is the ability to get in early or cruise off to distant breaks which I think SUP is ideally suited for.
And I am not knocking someone who can go tiny and rips it. I did not get into SUP until I was 40. I will never know what it might feel like to be a 25 year old in the sport.
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The only thing that prevents me from having a foolish number of boards to pick from is not having a foolish amount of space to store the boards. There are so many good craigslist deals now, It takes real self control not to bite at the first wiggle.
I'm happy with 11-1 200L cruiser down to a big guy 9-6 x 165L. My wife can ride down into the 7-6 x 110L range but is happiest with a longer board with more float. She's about to order a custom 9-0, 31" w x 130L for her everyday surf use on the reef/point waves we ride. She calls my 9-6 a barge. I refer to her 9-2, 150L as my "biggest loser" target board. If I ever listen to all the good diet voices in my head, I'll take over that board from her and be happy as an eskimo in a hot tub.
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I like short & longboard & the choices of a board are ridiculous, so keep simple and once you find the board your set ;)
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"and that is what makes a market" or something along those lines
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I think most folks who have a lot of boards tend to go to the same one or two.....boards that you know will give you the fun time.
I’m still to find my one board quiver so to speak.....but I am getting closer.
I’m still of the view that watertime makes you a better surfer...not the board...but we all like something new ;D
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sound advice
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If I could afford it, I would have a different board for every type of wave and let the conditions dictate what board I would choose.
Small clean waves
Small choppy waves
Big clean waves
Big choppy waves
Powerful waves
Weak waves and/or bumps
Distant waves
Having a "one board quiver" is very limiting.
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Having one board in the middle that always works can be a good thing. For me 8'3 / 135L is my normal board. I am 175lb / 51 Years old. I thought about how nice it would be to have: Nose rider, early wave catcher, something smaller ... But at some point you need to take all this stuff to the beach.
JP
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Having one board in the middle that always works can be a good thing. For me 8'3 / 135L is my normal board. I am 175lb / 51 Years old. I thought about how nice it would be to have: Nose rider, early wave catcher, something smaller ... But at some point you need to take all this stuff to the beach.
JP
I weigh the same as you and am 10 years older. I would consider 135 liters to be way too much volume for an 8'3. I wouldn't want anything over 115 liters max for that length of board. I know a lot of it is preference, but from a performance perspective, all that extra volume is working against you for both stability and surfing the wave
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If I could afford it, I would have a different board for every type of wave and let the conditions dictate what board I would choose.
Small clean waves
Small choppy waves
Big clean waves
Big choppy waves
Powerful waves
Weak waves and/or bumps
Distant waves
Having a "one board quiver" is very limiting.
I guess you’d be bringing a bunch of boards to the beach? It frequently happens to me where clean waves turn to choppy waves or big waves go small, hollow waves to fat waves due to tide change, calm winds to howling offshores. I think the good board AND skill level play a role how you adjust. Makes it fun too imo.
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I will likely be the 3 board quiver - I have an all around inflatable and an over sized touring board that I feel secure taking offshore touring/fishing and using like a station wagon to caryy people/gear. The 3rd board is still to come - a surf oriented all around or "surf cruiser". Not sure how quick that will be. I can borrow and rent to surf. One friend of mine has become a die hard proner and has some boards he is happy to loan hoping I will buy one of them, but he hasn't been a very motivated seller (I think he has his eye on pricey prone boards). I run all the numbers, I read all this discussion, I browse vendor sites and look at reviews. But the truth is that as soon as I have the cash to spare, I am probably getting the first thing that "will probably be okay" in my price range that is near by.
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come to my house in Brooklyn, and I'm lucky that one board fits in without making the rest of the family crazy...
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come to my house in Brooklyn, and I'm lucky that one board fits in without making the rest of the family crazy...
Ha SupSean....My original 8'5 pocket rocket existed because it was the only board i could get in my UES apartment and also fit in my car.
It ended up being stored in my sons Nursery (Despite some obvious opposition). The only time my wife told me to 'go back to surfing with the small boards'
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Having one board in the middle that always works can be a good thing. For me 8'3 / 135L is my normal board. I am 175lb / 51 Years old. I thought about how nice it would be to have: Nose rider, early wave catcher, something smaller ... But at some point you need to take all this stuff to the beach.
JP
I weigh the same as you and am 10 years older. I would consider 135 liters to be way too much volume for an 8'3. I wouldn't want anything over 115 liters max for that length of board. I know a lot of it is preference, but from a performance perspective, all that extra volume is working against you for both stability and surfing the wave
I rented an 8'5 125L quad while on vaca last year and expected to feel some performance over my 135L twin. I cant' say I really felt much difference.
Keep in mind that my 8'3 is an unusual craft. AHD Sealion made for 51% sailing and 49% supsurf. The twin tails make it feel smaller than it really is in my opinion.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ahd+sealion+8%273&FORM=HDRSC2
JP
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Having one board in the middle that always works can be a good thing. For me 8'3 / 135L is my normal board. I am 175lb / 51 Years old. I thought about how nice it would be to have: Nose rider, early wave catcher, something smaller ... But at some point you need to take all this stuff to the
JP
I weigh the same as you and am 10 years older. I would consider 135 liters to be way too much volume for an 8'3. I wouldn't want anything over 115 liters max for that length of board. I know a lot of it is preference, but from a performance perspective, all that extra volume is working against you for both stability and surfing the wave
I rented an 8'5 125L quad while on vaca last year and expected to feel some performance over my 135L twin. I cant' say I really felt much difference.
Keep in mind that my 8'3 is an unusual craft. AHD Sealion made for 51% sailing and 49% supsurf. The twin tails make it feel smaller than it really is in my opinion.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ahd+sealion+8%273&FORM=HDRSC2
JP
JP
That Sealion is an interesting looking board. If you could write and post a review that would be great!
Bob
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The Sealion is definitely something different. The website calls it a concept board.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBqwHLo5yks
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Fish shaped large swallow tail SUPs were being made years back....the French company Nah Skwell were making them....twin fins, big swallow tails etc.
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The Sealions were introduced 10 years ago, so not a NEW concept board.
Compared to other SUPs, they are built heavy to handle the sailing abuse and have a thicker tail. 29.25 wide at the middle is narrower than a lot of stubby boards, but 1 foot off the tail it's super wide. So in theory the thick tail rails would make it not turn well, but the width at the tail enables more leverage for the turn.
Sailing wise they are slow as hell until you catch a wave, the it gets fun.
JP
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Haha! Wow. That is extreme. At least we have a foyer that can fit a board fairly easily.
come to my house in Brooklyn, and I'm lucky that one board fits in without making the rest of the family crazy...
Ha SupSean....My original 8'5 pocket rocket existed because it was the only board i could get in my UES apartment and also fit in my car.
It ended up being stored in my sons Nursery (Despite some obvious opposition). The only time my wife told me to 'go back to surfing with the small boards'