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General Category => Random => Topic started by: OUTSIDEWAVE on February 10, 2019, 10:03:03 PM

Title: Retiring But where?
Post by: OUTSIDEWAVE on February 10, 2019, 10:03:03 PM
Well  getting time to retire.  But it is going to be a challenge.  I spent the heart and soul and  27 years of my career. Building a business. Finally got there only to have a MF partner steal it out from under me leaving me with little to nothing to show for my the. Bulk of my lifeís work.  So I found my self starting over at 55 with nothing.  Now 10 years later  I am looking down the barrel of retirement.  At that time lost the house in the recession.
 The thing is I have lived in so cal since 1964 the same year I learned to surf.    Now I am thinking about retiring. And have scraped together a paltry down payment. And am looking to buy a house. Most likely out of state   I would like to be able to paddle. But maybe  more along some rivers or lake.  Looking at Oregon or Washington  maybe. Maybe along the coast. So what are your ideas on where? Given this is going to be a low budget affair?
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Zooport on February 11, 2019, 05:01:02 AM
This is probably way outside of what you were thinking, but I am pretty happy in the Charlotte, NC area.  Housing here is less than 25% of what it is in California and there's lots of lakes nearby.  A small, but beautiful lake is just 11 minutes from my house.  The drawback is that surf is 3 hours away and I rarely see really good waves by California standards.  I have some pretty bad surf withdrawals, but I'm filling it in with all the other cool things to do here.  If you are into mountain biking, you would be in heaven here.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: OUTSIDEWAVE on February 11, 2019, 06:54:53 AM
Hey zoo good to hear from you. Itís a thought. For sure  thing is our family  all the kids are out here in ca. And even though I donít see them a lot  we still see them. How are you adjusting to the colder winters.  Did you get snow? I looked at some possible places. And they all have snow in the forecast.   Wow!
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Night Wing on February 11, 2019, 08:19:03 AM
I think the West Coast is expensive. As an example, compare the housing prices in Oregon/Washington to say some places in the state I live in, Texas.

A great place to retire is near the small city of Port Aransas, Texas. PA is right on the coast though. But it not as expensive to live there as it would be in Oregon/Washington.

As of right now, gasoline is some where near $1.79-$1.95 per gallon (cash). Use a credit card for "convenience" and the gasoline is more expensive. Why is gasoline fuel so cheap? Because Texas has lots of oil refineries and these refineries make lots of gasoline. And a lot of this gasoline stays in Texas.

Housing prices are affordable too. My next door neighbor to the left of me paid $140,000 for a 10 year old used house (built in 2009) which has 3 bedrooms, 2 full baths, 2 car attached garage and the house has 2100 square feet of living area with a 500 square foot garage. His lot is about one-third of an acre.

Food is not expensive either. As for electricty, since my house is all electric, we pay $0.12 per kwh. My home is 1860 square feet with a 500 square foot attached garage and my January electric bill was ($230.63). City, school and county taxes came to a combined $1500 dollars. But I am a senior in age and get a homestead exemption. Texas has no state income tax either.

The only drawbacks; Texas has 6 months of Summer, 3 months of Fall and 3 months of Spring. My grass is starting to grow again and the trees in my are yard are starting to bloom.

Another drawback is the weather. Texas does get tornadoes and hurricanes. I can't do much about tornadoes, but hurricanes are manageable. I live 90 miles from the beaches on the Gulf Coast. Back in September of 2008 when Hurricane Ike's eyewall was 30 miles to the east of me, the wind speed at my house was 60 mph. Hurricanes lose at of their punch when they make landfall and start to move inland. This is why I live 90 miles from the coast.

And Texas is hot with lots of high humidity (if you live near the coast). Today's high temperature is going to be 70 degrees F. You can see what our temperatures for this week (which is close to me) are going to be. Not bad for almost the middle of February.

https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=30.2094&lon=-95.7508#.Vj6C1492Ols

And the surfing is good because most of our waves are wind generated. If there is no wind, you can always tanker bow wave surf at Port Aransas. With our mild winters, get yourself a wet suit and you can sup surf all year round. So if hurricanes bother you, live about 60 miles from the coast from Port Aransas.

BTW, the weather forecast for Port Aransas for the rest of this week is below.

https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=27.836&lon=-97.0682

The above is "food for thought".


Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: PonoBill on February 11, 2019, 08:31:30 AM
I started a book on retirement but never finished it. One of the big issues is where to retire. Oregon is a terrible choice as is Hawaii--both place that I have homes. So there's that. Washington is a bit better since it has no income tax, but retirees don't need to worry so much about income tax. Property tax and other expenses are a bigger deal.

Here's a link to as much of the book as I wrote. It's a bit of a mess, but there's some good stuff. https://retirement.pressbooks.com/front-matter/introduction/
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Wetstuff on February 11, 2019, 09:02:43 AM
Outs...  Sorry to hear about the 'partner' deal.  My wife and I reached the health plateau where it would be imprudent to live outside the country, but I (we) would in a heartbeat if we could.  We have an east coast orientation (and my wife was born/raised in the Canal Zone) so our choices (changing over the years) come down to Panama or the DR. 

A friend who resides in Fl, and still in the surf clothing trade, has had small factories in China, MEX, Nica and now the DR. He keeps a condo in the DR and raves about locals he's met and paddles out whenever he is there. He lives in Melbourne and pops back-in-forth quick and cheaply.  In contrast, flying into Panama is pricy. (Panama City and David have US-connected healthcare, but who wants to live in a city?!)

From everything I see, if MEX could crush the cartels - they would be building a wall: to keep us out.  My wife has friends with property in central MEX who love it there  ..and, Key'Ryst!, the weather and surf around Sayulita would keep my joints flexible well into the grim reaper's schedule. 

Rick Weeks (Creek) told me once; "Don't ever get a dog!"   We have a really wonderful animal that comes to work with me every day - life's restraints are also planned around him.   Good luck with your next choices.

Jim
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 11, 2019, 09:35:06 AM
I am 60 and starting to visit possible landing spots. I am in NC now and will probably head to Fl, where I have lots of family. With some sort of 'itis in just about every joint, I really don't like cold anymore. Probably space coast. There are options for just about every budget and mine should be decent. My sister and her husband live in a duplex just north of JAX about 5 minutes from an inshore access and 20 minutes from a beach on Amelia Island. It's a nice enough area not to be too concerned about crime. They have a really low budget. There are lifestyle trade offs if the budget is tight, but it is doable without much.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: stoneaxe on February 11, 2019, 10:06:01 AM
Ugg...sorry to hear the partner stuff. Starting over had to be tough. Wish I could help with suggestions but we're all over the place about what we'll be doing.....or where we'll be doing it anyway.

I'm also going to get away from the cold once my wife retires. We aren't in bad shape for retirement but we'll have to be frugal and plan well. I'm looking at creek and how he swings it and seriously think we'll head in the same direction, with our own modifications of course. Our latest thought is a summer cottage here near the beach and then go live someplace warmer but inexpensive for a few months...Portugal is looking nice. I have an old friend that is moving to Kalamata, Greece in a few weeks. I love olives....:)
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: TallDude on February 11, 2019, 11:09:47 AM
Close friends of ours have been living the Vagabond life in a nice (but not over the top) motorhome for about 8 years now. They have a space they own in and RV community in Palm Springs and one in Arizona. The one in PS has a small 9 hole golf course and a fixed patio cover/room with an outdoor kitchen, BBq, couch etc and a storage room. It has trees around it, very nice set up. They rent it out during the winter to snow birds from Canada. That's when they stay in there AZ spot. During the really hot summer days they travel all around the US and Canada following jazz and blues festivals. They stay at Doheny for the blues festival there every year. They do own a duplex in SoCal which they rent out year round. That brings in some income along with renting out the PS space for $2500 a month. They have one car they share and tow behind the motorhome. They never had kids and don't have pets. They basically travel a lot.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: SanoSlatchSup on February 11, 2019, 11:53:26 AM
They never had kids and don't have pets. They basically travel a lot.
Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner Pat.  ;D
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: PonoBill on February 11, 2019, 12:10:57 PM
Pets are a far bigger expense and restraint than most people realize--or care to acknowledge. I like dogs, but wouldn't have one if my wife wasn't so attached to them. I've been looking at our expenses per year and dog expense is big enough to pop up on the radar. That was a surprise. Add to that, there are a lot of things we don't do, or have to do in a contorted way, because of the dog. Our dog is a service dog--a diabetic alert dog, but with a continuous glucose monitor, the benefit is hard to justify on a medical basis.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Bean on February 11, 2019, 12:39:36 PM
Great observation PB, we have an English Bulldog...nuff said.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: supstoked on February 11, 2019, 01:39:08 PM
I have been retired for 13 years.  My home base is Deep South Texas.  Super cheap unless you live right on the water.  Too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter.  We spend the winter at our home in Mexico.  Very inexpensive and perfect climate.  Too hot in the summer.  We spend summer in Costa Rica.  Pleasant temperatures but very expensive.  Hawaii level prices unless you are eating rice and beans.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: lucabrasi on February 11, 2019, 01:54:35 PM
Ever check out the Idaho panhandle? Tons of water, tons of fishing and species, a less brutal winter overall than lots of places. Lots of smaller towns, small lakes, big lakes, rivers. March/April when days are starting to get long you can actually be out doing something instead of waiting for snow and ice to melt and able to get out on the water some and in Oct/November when days start getting shorter there are great days when everything isn't frozen yet either. It's definitely worth a peak. 
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: addapost on February 11, 2019, 02:10:41 PM
What about abroad? Lots of great countries where a retired expat can live quite well.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: DavidJohn on February 11, 2019, 02:21:57 PM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-16/melbourne-named-worlds-most-liveable-city-for-seventh-year/8812196
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Tom on February 11, 2019, 02:35:53 PM
It seem ironic, but for Americans retiring in the United States is very complicated and difficult. I've been very lucky but a lot of my peers are having a difficult time of it. Seems some of the best off are those that are living mostly or part time in foreign countries. 
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Zooport on February 11, 2019, 02:45:50 PM
Hey zoo good to hear from you. It’s a thought. For sure  thing is our family  all the kids are out here in ca. And even though I don’t see them a lot  we still see them. How are you adjusting to the colder winters.  Did you get snow? I looked at some possible places. And they all have snow in the forecast.   Wow!

Thanks OW!  We get a little snow, but not much, and it doesn't stay on the ground.  Not very cold this winter, light jacket needed most of the time.  But moving far from your family is something you would regret.  Being near my kids and grandkids is why I let them talk me into moving out here, away from the beach. 
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Zooport on February 11, 2019, 02:52:37 PM
Pets are a far bigger expense and restraint than most people realize--or care to acknowledge.

Agree.  I love our two dogs, but they are a money pit and an anchor, soaking up almost all of our opportunities to travel for pleasure.  I bought them for my daughter and, as you would expect, she did not take care of them, so they became mine. 
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Dwight (DW) on February 11, 2019, 03:08:15 PM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-16/melbourne-named-worlds-most-liveable-city-for-seventh-year/8812196

Last time I checked, you didnít let retired people in  :-[

Age 45 or close to it, was the limit.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: supthecreek on February 11, 2019, 03:12:56 PM
Outside..... I feel ya!

The good news is.... you don't have to settle for less.
There are plenty of places that would love to have you and give you an awesome full life!

Same thing happened to me.
Built a business from scratch... had a 30 year lease.
When lease came up for renewal, my landlady realized that if she didn't renew my lease.... it became HER bar.
So she stole it & I lost everything at 62.

I am in the process of starting life over with nothing at 70.... but it has to revolve around surfing and has to be cheap.... most of all, it has to be amazing. I don't settle for ordinary.

This winter is a big test at becoming an Ex-pat.
I chose Portugal because it is super affordable, stunningly beautiful and has endless waves.
The waves are very powerful and access is challenging, but there are plenty of options.
I ranged around this week a bit and found an amazing area near Lisbon, with waves that suit me, awesome people and very nice living for a congested waterfront community on the outskirts of the city.

To put living expenses in perspective....
Rent 700 yards from the beach = $550 per month - sweet 1 bedroom with garden patio, ground level, parking in front.... quiet and middle of everything.... and my landlady does my laundry and cleans my apartment every week!
dozen fresh eggs = $1
3 big fresh tomatoes = 75 cents
1.5 liters water = 28 cents
12 rolls of toilet paper = $1.99
1.5 lbs ground beef = $4

Lunch today
Big wheat bread club sandwich with ham, cheese, hardboiled eggs, lettuce, tomato = $1.90

I got a haircut, beard trim... full hour with complete with hair wash and straight razor edging by a true artist for $12

beautiful AirBnb in Nazare' this week for $31

Parking has been free wherever I go, beach or downtown.
Camping is allowed free, just about everywhere.... and many towns provide free toilet facilities for travelers.

There are places that look like Tuscany, Baja, or midwest farming country.
The entire coast is stunning and water around me looks like the Caribbean.
There are endless miles of green grass and beautiful trees with grazing free range cattle, sheep or horses.

I hike all the time.... I have never seen a snake or a spider
No sharks, jelly fish, urchins or stingrays
No leash laws... and dogs have never paid any attention to me as I ride by on my bike. BUT... they bark all night.

Gas is $6.50 per gallon and tolls are expensive. No one drives on the highways.

Residency requirement is only $500 USD monthly, per person.

You can buy a pretty nice place for $100,000 and Mortgage rates are maybe 2.2% for 20 years.

Enjoy the hunt..... maybe here, Greece, how about Ireland? or an Island somewhere... but it can be done!

Here's my Garden patio






Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: jsb on February 11, 2019, 03:18:22 PM
I started a book on retirement but never finished it.

[snip]

Here's a link to as much of the book as I wrote. It's a bit of a mess, but there's some good stuff. https://retirement.pressbooks.com/front-matter/introduction/

Pono- Good stuff!  Do you happen to have a PDF version (or better yet, mobi)?  It would be great to be able to read the book on a kindle, rather than having to click through a bunch of bite-sized chapters on a web site.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: WhatsSUP on February 11, 2019, 03:31:22 PM
Always a fun discussion!!!  After 30 years of moving every 2-3 years we had the benefit of living at multiple locations on the East and West Coasts as well as the Gulf Coast here stateside - courtesy of Uncle Sam. I honestly thought we might have a summer get away here in Rhode Island but never permanent year round.  Ended up buying here in late late 2016 and moved in August of 2017.  Since then (some 18 months) I've been surfing each and every month - most times 6-12 outings a month - haven't missed a month yet.  My beach commute is about 5 mins and although this time of the year it can be cold I can't remember a time when I felt compelled to get out of the water because I was cold...always seems to be just spent after 2-3 hours of water time. This time of the year its usually single digit participants.....love it!  One of the best choices we ever made. And the fact that its the place my wife was born and raised and still has family and friends is a huge bonus!

Your paradise is out there and awaits!!!!!!  Have fun!!
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 11, 2019, 05:31:36 PM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-16/melbourne-named-worlds-most-liveable-city-for-seventh-year/8812196

Last time I checked, you didnít let retired people in  :-[

Age 45 or close to it, was the limit.

I know someone from England who was getting frustrated going through customs in Oz and when the officer asked him if he had ever been arrested, he asked "Is that still required to enter your country?"  ;D
I don't think that sped things up much...
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 11, 2019, 05:43:01 PM
Hey zoo good to hear from you. Itís a thought. For sure  thing is our family  all the kids are out here in ca. And even though I donít see them a lot  we still see them. How are you adjusting to the colder winters.  Did you get snow? I looked at some possible places. And they all have snow in the forecast.   Wow!

Thanks OW!  We get a little snow, but not much, and it doesn't stay on the ground.  Not very cold this winter, light jacket needed most of the time.  But moving far from your family is something you would regret.  Being near my kids and grandkids is why I let them talk me into moving out here, away from the beach.

That's one thing that will probably keep me east coast. I have some FL family that I know is staying put. Only one of my kids is launched and he is in White Plains, NY for an outstanding job opportunity. It's a contract that has been extended a couple of times and he may get on staff but if he doesn't, he would likely be looking in CA because that's where the jobs are. He is a special effects animator and got a job with Blue Sky (Ice Age, Rio, Ferdinand, Horton, etc) right out of college. They are about the only large (they're #4 behind Disney, Pixar and Dreamworks) animation studio in the east. Pretty cool; this fall I will get to see his name roll by at the theater. Anyway, others are more likely to stay east.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on February 11, 2019, 06:31:38 PM
my partner died---he didnt steal from me, and was a great guy--but ive had to find new sources of capital and processing that he provided me--painful--i am currently 110% committed to restarting my business, with one foot out the door---i am on my way, but it had better launch quick and right, or bye bye--not enough time left, to waste flogging a horse that wont run---while im still running..........

where? CR is a nice place--and has good medical for good $$--lotta medical tourism there, in fact--still cheap in more remote places--fully priced in many at this point

how about a cheapo apartment in the mouth of little cottonwood canyon in slc ut?

35 min public bus ride to some of the best lift-serviced and backcountry skiing on the planet--same bus in the summer to world class granite--and quartzite a canyon over

salt lake, for years mormon-dominated, has gotten some good secular culture of recent--and it's certainly clean and safe----super cheap

lake-paddling only, but who says youd be there year-round?



Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: toolate on February 11, 2019, 10:19:56 PM
Pets are a far bigger expense and restraint than most people realize--or care to acknowledge. I like dogs, but wouldn't have one if my wife wasn't so attached to them. I've been looking at our expenses per year and dog expense is big enough to pop up on the radar. That was a surprise. Add to that, there are a lot of things we don't do, or have to do in a contorted way, because of the dog. Our dog is a service dog--a diabetic alert dog, but with a continuous glucose monitor, the benefit is hard to justify on a medical basis.

That book is well done Pono!
One question; why is HAwaii ranked so poorly for WEATHER? Some of the finest weather on the planet IMO
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: OUTSIDEWAVE on February 11, 2019, 10:27:24 PM
Wow guys alot to think about   for us we have 4 dogs and my wife says i was a dog in another life. but 2 are getting along in years and i will miss them terribly when they are gone. I am a geologist and work out doors so they have been constant companions and occaissional guardians.

 Family is  very important to us. We have 6 kids  blended family  and 4 are in calif 1 in flagstaff  1 more also  in cal but travels all over the world promoting  music .

 On top of all else  my wife is experiencing symptoms  that are looking like ms   so that may be the deciding factor is her health.

So for those of you that  moved out of your state or out of the country. Does it feel foreign  or are you adjusted?  Do you have kids  Or grand children? how does that work   ?

 I haved lived in socal since 1964. Its hard to imagine anything else  let alone another country.

  Ifigure i have maybe 2 years maybe 5  but not much more? 

 Along long time ago when i was maybe 23,   i was surfing in newport beach at the pier  it was a weekday   there was a grandfather and his 2 grandsons  maybe 9 and 10  just us 4  i didnt know them never saw them again   but i always remembered them   cause i really wanted to that someday.       One of the most fun days ever!  Thats why family is so important .   One thing is amazing  is how many stories plans and really good guys are on this site
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: surfinJ on February 12, 2019, 12:52:40 AM
I was lucky to have moved to a place a long time ago that I can afford to remain in when retiring this spring. Iíve got some buddies back in NY where that isnít the case and one is going to N Carolina and the other Panama. Panama seems very attractive for the pesionado benefits and a decent healthcare setup.

Moving has social challenges as most friends are formed when we are young and just showing up somewhere you start alone. If you speak the language contacts are easily made but deep friendships will require patience.  And you have to realize the bonds you have with your old school days buds won't be reproduced as a relocated adult.

Europe while very attractive is a bit financially difficult as they will require income and health insurance proofs.  While not as big of an obstacle as Oz or NZ there are minimums to be met. Basically they are trying to avoid newcomers going onto the very supportive social system.

After having moved abroad over thirty years ago and living in multiple foreign countries all I can say is, i feel like a world citizen. Kind of floating in between the different languages and societies. For me itís really home is where the heart is.

And family. Yea thatís a tricky one. In this mobile society it seems to be a rare one when we all end up in the same place growing old together.  My family back home is broken and scattered. A shame.  My two girls here are studying and though the idea of them staying local is nice it probably wonít happen. I guess if you have kids young they are settled by the time retirement rolls around you can plan accordingly.

All the luck with your search. 
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: SUP Leave on February 12, 2019, 10:12:30 AM
This is a great thread. The big question is do you need waves and how close of access do you need?

The thing I like about surfing is that it is a healthy pursuit and demands you to be in shape, flexible, strong, etc. So, I don't want to give it up as a retirement goal.  I love golfing, fishing and hunting as well, but these are sports that can be pursued pretty much in any state. Plus after a day golfing with my buds I generally come home half drunk and sick from eating a bunch of shitty bar food.

We really had fun down in South Texas and I could almost see myself down there for the long haul, but we could not leave our kids for that long and assume that they will be out on the West Coast somewhere. However a monthly rental for 4 people in Port Aransas or Galveston near the beach is going to be $3k so you can easily spend time there. The surf isn't great if you are used to the West Coast, but the people are really cool.

I live in Washington and can tell you that it would almost be impossible to not have some kind of paddling within 15 minutes of you anywhere in Western WA. If you want surf you are going to be looking at Westport for the closest and most consistent surfing. There are lots of other spots, but Westport is going to be your most consistent. It is my home beach. I live 45 minutes away. A little too far for pre-work surf unless I can get a meeting in the area apres surf.

So right now we are looking at staying with some form of home here in WA. I would like a camping van as part of that to allow multi day trips to OR coast and spots North. Probably winters in AZ/FLA for golf. We will spend summer and fall in WA. I will be managing a cranberry farm and probably hanging on to my commercial real estate during my retirement which is out here on the WA coast. Leaving the spring for the surfing getaway months. I will surf WA/OR during the summer.

I don't want to work too much, but I think the farm and rentals are going to spin off enough extra cash to do whatever we want.

Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: fly2surf on February 17, 2019, 06:37:08 AM
So what are your ideas on where? Given this is going to be a low budget affair?

Since you got screwed financially, will you still be working some to make ends meet?

These are the only states that donít have income tax:
Alaska
Florida
Nevada
New Hampshire
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Washington
Wyoming
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: maxsonic on February 17, 2019, 07:39:11 AM
So what are your ideas on where? Given this is going to be a low budget affair?

Since you got screwed financially, will you still be working some to make ends meet?

These are the only states that donít have income tax:
Alaska
Florida
Nevada
New Hampshire
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Washington
Wyoming

We're planning Washington State Residency...Kitsap or Olympic Peninsula...Spring/Summer/Fall weather is beautiful there IMHO, even into late Fall. We can handle Taxifornia while working, but not in retirement.  We'll still snowbird and spend the coldest winter months in warmer climate seaside locations in the South Pacific, i.e. SoCal, Hawaii, CR, (other country suggestions ?) .... 

Four more years to financial independence and total freedom!

MAX 
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: puget sound on February 17, 2019, 07:47:44 AM
I grew up in southern CA and now live in western WA. SUP Leave is right...there is no shortage of water here. Lakes everywhere, plus the Puget Sound. The Sound has crazy tidal currents and sea critters that make it more interesting than lakes, and salt water will feel right if you have a surf background. Downwinding is also an option if you can drive to the Gorge (3 hours for me). I plan to try that this summer.

You can SUP year round here, no problem. I'm wearing a wetsuit this winter but might upgrade to a dry suit for convenience. The downside of western WA is a long gray drizzly winter. Temps are fine...we rarely get below freezing...but the constant gray can wear you down emotionally. Eastern WA is a different beast. It's more like Nevada.

Cost of living is reasonable and frugality is way more accepted here than SoCal. No need for flashy cars or clothes, for example, unless you count rain jackets.

Summers are glorious. It's our best kept secret. Air quality is great. No income tax. Cheap flights to CA to visit family, or drivable if you have the time.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 17, 2019, 08:02:29 AM
So what are your ideas on where? Given this is going to be a low budget affair?

Since you got screwed financially, will you still be working some to make ends meet?

These are the only states that donít have income tax:
Alaska
Florida
Nevada
New Hampshire
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Washington
Wyoming

The only savings a state gets from not taxing income is the elimination of the costs associated with collecting income taxes. If they eliminate one source of revenue, they will likely have to increase others in order to meet expenses. You have to look at the overall tax burden. Lack of income tax is a pretty good indicator; 3 of the lowest 10 states ranked by tax burden have no income tax. But there are other factors that cause some of the states (most notably TX and OK) to be a lot further from the bottom of the list than you would expect:

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on February 17, 2019, 08:45:37 AM
great chart--the differences state to state are impressive

depressing--as a property owner in ny and ct, and an income earner in ny--ouch
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: PonoBill on February 17, 2019, 09:01:32 AM
That's a great link RTG, and anyone retiring needs to look at how their income sources fit into the tax anc cost matrix of the state and city they choose to move to. A lot of analytically wise retirees move to Iowa, which at first glance seems like a poor choice. But if your income comes from tax-free sources and your property cost is low, then it looks fine. Retirement income from pensions, social security and post-retirement jobs is taxable and relatively easy to calculate, but income from tax-free bonds, annuities, an IRA/401k is more complex, and varies with how you take money from them as well as where you live. Not a simple choice and it might be worthwhile to get some tax advice before you uproot and discover you moved from one frying pan to another.

EB, on the bright side, if/when you retire almost anywhere you go will be cheaper. My choices of Hawaii and Oregon to retire to are about as stupid as it gets from a financial standpoint, but not many people tell me how dumb I was, other than myself and my budget spreadsheets.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 17, 2019, 09:29:19 AM
Pono,

I could be wrong, but I suspect there are highways narrower than the financial tightrope you are walking in retirement.  ;)

I think the tightrope has to be pretty small or the COL unavoidably high before you give up on a location where you really want to retire. For most of us in the US wanting to retire in the US, HI is off the table; that's what I mean by unavoidably high COL. You can make most other *general* locations work with some trade offs. By general locations I mean further from the coast than you might like in SoCal, but still close enough to go to the beach for day trips, maybe having a smaller place than you had dreamed of if that's something you didn't feel as strongly about. I look at the tax hit further down the list than other aspects of the COL.

Also keep in mind that the crazy high income tax rates are progressive; if you are just drawing enough to make ends meet, there won't be that much tax.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Wetstuff on February 17, 2019, 09:31:30 AM
"analytically wise retirees move to Iowa" ... I am glad you injected that, Bill.  Even in the 60's it was kind of a running joke: 'Lots of people got speeding tickets driving away from Iowa - almost none headed to...'    I would liken those people to the ones you hear about living in squalor and leaving $1mil to 'the church'.  Who'd want to sit in a cornfield waiting for 'the big one'? (...it's close to the real Mayo Clinic!)  I suspect your quality of life is substantially better than had you chosen Iowa and PR.

I have a kind of paralysis - we have the money to leave but all my junk is here and 'still enjoy the work/play life I have created.  'If' - I was closer by air, there would be plenty of places to zip off to, but it takes nearly as much time to get to MEX as Portugal  ...and, the dog.


Jim
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: maxsonic on February 17, 2019, 10:39:33 AM
So what are your ideas on where? Given this is going to be a low budget affair?

Since you got screwed financially, will you still be working some to make ends meet?

These are the only states that donít have income tax:
Alaska
Florida
Nevada
New Hampshire
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Washington
Wyoming

The only savings a state gets from not taxing income is the elimination of the costs associated with collecting income taxes. If they eliminate one source of revenue, they will likely have to increase others in order to meet expenses. You have to look at the overall tax burden. Lack of income tax is a pretty good indicator; 3 of the lowest 10 states ranked by tax burden have no income tax. But there are other factors that cause some of the states (most notably TX and OK) to be a lot further from the bottom of the list than you would expect:

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/

This table is misleading...it shows California Individual Income Tax Rate at 3.65%...???

The California State Tax Bracket for <4% is only for those earning $38,990.00 or less. It is 8% or above for middle income earners. 

Check State Income Tax Brackets here: https://www.tax-brackets.org/californiataxtable

The new limit of State and Local Income Taxes (SALT) as a Federal Income Tax deduction makes living in Taxifornia even more painful...which is why many of us nearing retirement are developing our exit strategy.

MAX
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: fly2surf on February 17, 2019, 11:04:01 AM
So what are your ideas on where? Given this is going to be a low budget affair?

Since you got screwed financially, will you still be working some to make ends meet?

These are the only states that don’t have income tax:
Alaska
Florida
Nevada
New Hampshire
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Washington
Wyoming

But there are other factors that cause some of the states (most notably TX and OK) to be a lot further from the bottom of the list than you would expect:

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/

It’s always good to look at the big picture, but that chart is flawed. 

Just at a quick glance, California income tax is higher than the chart number, Texas property tax is lower than the chart number, real life sales taxes are almost double the chart number (NY, CA), etc.

Back to the original question, the OP sounds like he will have low savings hence my question about working for income. 

It is highly likely most of his money will be coming from Social Security and part time work, so state income tax is a much bigger deal than those fortunate enough to have savings, tax free accounts (Roth), municipal bonds, paid off properties, etc. 
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 17, 2019, 11:20:37 AM
So what are your ideas on where? Given this is going to be a low budget affair?

Since you got screwed financially, will you still be working some to make ends meet?

These are the only states that donít have income tax:
Alaska
Florida
Nevada
New Hampshire
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Washington
Wyoming

The only savings a state gets from not taxing income is the elimination of the costs associated with collecting income taxes. If they eliminate one source of revenue, they will likely have to increase others in order to meet expenses. You have to look at the overall tax burden. Lack of income tax is a pretty good indicator; 3 of the lowest 10 states ranked by tax burden have no income tax. But there are other factors that cause some of the states (most notably TX and OK) to be a lot further from the bottom of the list than you would expect:

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/

This table is misleading...it shows California Individual Income Tax Rate at 3.65%...???

The California State Tax Bracket for <4% is only for those earning $38,990.00 or less. It is 8% or above for middle income earners. 

Check State Income Tax Brackets here: https://www.tax-brackets.org/californiataxtable

The new limit of State and Local Income Taxes (SALT) as a Federal Income Tax deduction makes living in Taxifornia even more painful...which is why many of us nearing retirement are developing our exit strategy.

MAX

It is really difficult for these articles to apply to multiple audiences. According to this 2016 article, the median income for retirees is ~ $32K:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/powell/2016/07/14/retirees-low-income-social-security/83934392/

so for the majority of the population, the chart is accurate. However, most retirement articles do have an expected audience of high earners and the median income of people who actually look at that chart is probably much higher. It's hard to say what numbers to go with in a simple chart. It would be nice if it were interactive - what income, will you rent or buy? What price range? etc...
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: fly2surf on February 17, 2019, 11:42:49 AM
So what are your ideas on where? Given this is going to be a low budget affair?

Since you got screwed financially, will you still be working some to make ends meet?

These are the only states that donít have income tax:
Alaska
Florida
Nevada
New Hampshire
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Washington
Wyoming

The only savings a state gets from not taxing income is the elimination of the costs associated with collecting income taxes. If they eliminate one source of revenue, they will likely have to increase others in order to meet expenses. You have to look at the overall tax burden. Lack of income tax is a pretty good indicator; 3 of the lowest 10 states ranked by tax burden have no income tax. But there are other factors that cause some of the states (most notably TX and OK) to be a lot further from the bottom of the list than you would expect:

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/

This table is misleading...it shows California Individual Income Tax Rate at 3.65%...???

The California State Tax Bracket for <4% is only for those earning $38,990.00 or less. It is 8% or above for middle income earners. 

Check State Income Tax Brackets here: https://www.tax-brackets.org/californiataxtable

The new limit of State and Local Income Taxes (SALT) as a Federal Income Tax deduction makes living in Taxifornia even more painful...which is why many of us nearing retirement are developing our exit strategy.

MAX

It is really difficult for these articles to apply to multiple audiences. According to this 2016 article, the median income for retirees is ~ $32K:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/powell/2016/07/14/retirees-low-income-social-security/83934392/

so for the majority of the population, the chart is accurate. However, most retirement articles do have an expected audience of high earners and the median income of people who actually look at that chart is probably much higher. It's hard to say what numbers to go with in a simple chart. It would be nice if it were interactive - what income, will you rent or buy? What price range? etc...

Just trying to help the OP with his predicament..... low savings due to business partner, lost his house, etc. 

I stand by my advice that avoiding state income tax is important to his situation and that the article and chart someone else posted is not accurate.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: spirit4earth on February 17, 2019, 04:39:29 PM
So what are your ideas on where? Given this is going to be a low budget affair?

Since you got screwed financially, will you still be working some to make ends meet?

These are the only states that donít have income tax:
Alaska
Florida
Nevada
New Hampshire
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Washington
Wyoming

Meaning, these states donít tax 401k income, if you have that.  I have a tiny bit, and Iím thinking about leaving NC just so I donít have to pay state taxes.  My 401k is so tiny that state tax would take too big a bite.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: spirit4earth on February 17, 2019, 04:49:51 PM


Just trying to help the OP with his predicament..... low savings due to business partner, lost his house, etc. 

I stand by my advice that avoiding state income tax is important to his situation and that the article and chart someone else posted is not accurate.
[/quote]

I agree.  Low and SSI and still working part-time means an income tax-free state might help. 
A place like Seattle, though, is an example of where local taxes take big bites out of your net.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: PonoBill on February 17, 2019, 07:29:47 PM
Pono,

I could be wrong, but I suspect there are highways narrower than the financial tightrope you are walking in retirement.  ;)

I think the tightrope has to be pretty small or the COL unavoidably high before you give up on a location where you really want to retire. For most of us in the US wanting to retire in the US, HI is off the table; that's what I mean by unavoidably high COL. You can make most other *general* locations work with some trade offs. By general locations I mean further from the coast than you might like in SoCal, but still close enough to go to the beach for day trips, maybe having a smaller place than you had dreamed of if that's something you didn't feel as strongly about. I look at the tax hit further down the list than other aspects of the COL.

Also keep in mind that the crazy high income tax rates are progressive; if you are just drawing enough to make ends meet, there won't be that much tax.

You're right BUT, I've been poorer than most at one time, and frugal habits are good ones to keep, even if you don't think you need them.

As you infer, the problem with charts relating a percentage of tax is that they don't show the whole picture. Property taxes might look super high, but if your home in eastern Washington cost one third what your California home sold for, the resultant tax is probably about 33 percent of what you previously paid--or less. I know people who moved to a low-income tax state and then realized that their low retirement income put them in a very low bracket but the sales tax (regressive) and property taxes (semi-regressive) were eating them up. Or you could move to Alaska for the tax benefits and then spend a lot of money staying warm and getting the heck out of there when it's horrid.

Take your time and figure it out.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on February 18, 2019, 04:29:56 AM
true that, pb---and over the years i always thought that if one leaves NY or somesuch high-pay, high-cost rat-race, one will never be able to come back---like, get off that train carefully, cuz you aint getting back on--now lotta questions beg from that--like, what would make a person think they would WANT to get back to a rat race they pulled out of? etc etc

and i just signed a new deal for my business (in NY!--worst tax state in the country).......hope it proves a good one--i am committing precious time and $$$--less worried about the money, that's capped---more worried about precious time and keeping physical and intellectual fitness to enjoy life.....

now this is why a showrunner needs to get on creek--none of this shit matters to him, and nothing tragic is happening to him, and he's happy and relaxed all the time---not sure i can say that about my self....he lives the "fuck it" life we all fear--but he's fine..... love to live vicariously through him--he represents hope for us frightened oldsters---"fuck it" can work

pay no tax? surf? go to PR---a guy in my business moved there---laughable how little tax he pays--laughable the palace he got for a song for him and his 7 kids--

now i will begin a 12 hour day getting my new biz going-----hope i dont die before i check all the other boxes i want

and RTG, yeah, one's bracket and income types will confuse, as might levels of "progressiveness" in state and local income and other taxes--tho i may have that wrong--could be most states hew to the fed brackets

brackets---come on polticians??---250k and up is the highest bracket?? dates back to the 1970's---i have no problem with high marginal rates an income 5mm, 10mm, and 20mm and higher--somebody makes 50mm a year??--i have no problem taxing the amount above 10mm at a 60 or 70% rate

why do we have billionaires? to me it all boils down to simple math--taxes on the wealthy and corps have been cut hugely since reagan--surprise:: our wealthy are much wealthier, and our middle class is much poorer--and when we talk about taxing the wealthy, that's the scary commie "redistribution" boogieman--but for the last 40 years that's exactly what weve been doing:: we've been redistributing UP for the last 40 years!!!

and the "float everyone"s boat by handing out money to rich people" is fallacy--working class people spend all they earn--they earn more (or get taxed less) they spend more--goes right into the economy--hand money to rich people?? they add it to savings--they have plenty of sneakers food and medical care

woops--sorry for another hissy fit!  clearly i need to start work


Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 18, 2019, 06:10:26 AM
Pono,

I could be wrong, but I suspect there are highways narrower than the financial tightrope you are walking in retirement.  ;)

I think the tightrope has to be pretty small or the COL unavoidably high before you give up on a location where you really want to retire. For most of us in the US wanting to retire in the US, HI is off the table; that's what I mean by unavoidably high COL. You can make most other *general* locations work with some trade offs. By general locations I mean further from the coast than you might like in SoCal, but still close enough to go to the beach for day trips, maybe having a smaller place than you had dreamed of if that's something you didn't feel as strongly about. I look at the tax hit further down the list than other aspects of the COL.

Also keep in mind that the crazy high income tax rates are progressive; if you are just drawing enough to make ends meet, there won't be that much tax.

You're right BUT, I've been poorer than most at one time, and frugal habits are good ones to keep, even if you don't think you need them.

As you infer, the problem with charts relating a percentage of tax is that they don't show the whole picture. Property taxes might look super high, but if your home in eastern Washington cost one third what your California home sold for, the resultant tax is probably about 33 percent of what you previously paid--or less. I know people who moved to a low-income tax state and then realized that their low retirement income put them in a very low bracket but the sales tax (regressive) and property taxes (semi-regressive) were eating them up. Or you could move to Alaska for the tax benefits and then spend a lot of money staying warm and getting the heck out of there when it's horrid.

Take your time and figure it out.

I am in the middle; I have saved about 4 times the median amount and I have 30 cap years for SS. I don't expect nor deserve any sympathy from those struggling to figure out how to make it work, but from the experience of others I think the trap I have to watch out for is retiring with a lifestyle I can't afford long term. I have seen others burn through a few hundred thousand pretty quickly in the early years of retirement, cutting future interest income in half when they are barely out of the gate. I should be able to retire comfortably, but still have to watch expenses closely.

The other thing that's hard to figure in this situation is when to start taking SS. If you have a big retirement account, it's a no brainer to wait until 70. If you don't have much you have no choice but to start taking it when you retire. In the middle it's a dicier question. 4-5 years of expenses out of the retirement account is too big of a hit. I will wait until FRA at the least, which is 66+8 for me. I am hoping not to work past 65 full time. OTOH, I have no guarantee I will have full time work until 65. I hope I can hang on where I am for the next 5 years and not have to find anything else; would likely take a cut and find out about ageism first hand looking for something else.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 18, 2019, 06:26:45 AM
why do we have billionaires? to me it all boils down to simple math--taxes on the wealthy and corps have been cut hugely since reagan--surprise:: our wealthy are much wealthier, and our middle class is much poorer--and when we talk about taxing the wealthy, that's the scary commie "redistribution" boogieman--but for the last 40 years that's exactly what weve been doing:: we've been redistributing UP for the last 40 years!!!

and the "float everyone"s boat by handing out money to rich people" is fallacy--working class people spend all they earn--they earn more (or get taxed less) they spend more--goes right into the economy--hand money to rich people?? they add it to savings--they have plenty of sneakers food and medical care

I always hated that analogy - "a rising tide floats all boats". Actually it sinks the ones that are heavily anchored. We are in an oligarchy disguised as a democracy right now. Between gerrymandering, vote suppression, misleading or outright dishonest propaganda and the slant of voter participation by age and income strata, a minority is in charge. Yeah, I have some strong opinions about that also.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Bean on February 18, 2019, 09:02:50 AM
The other thing that's hard to figure in this situation is when to start taking SS.

Yes, thats become complicated but out of the multiple scenarios that exist, there is an opportunity for optimization based upon specific individual circumstances.  Best to get a SS expert to assist on that part of the puzzle for sure.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 18, 2019, 10:12:09 AM
The other thing that's hard to figure in this situation is when to start taking SS.

Yes, thats become complicated but out of the multiple scenarios that exist, there is an opportunity for optimization based upon specific individual circumstances.  Best to get a SS expert to assist on that part of the puzzle for sure.

They often give my least favorite answer - "Just work longer." Uhm, I am asking for retirement advice because I want to retire, have the means but want to optimize what I have.  ::)
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Bean on February 18, 2019, 10:33:52 AM
The old "just work longer" spiel is a cop out for sure.  It's hard to plan your future with somone (a professional) who has their own plan for you.   ;D
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 18, 2019, 11:39:21 AM
The old "just work longer" spiel is a cop out for sure.  It's hard to plan your future with somone (a professional) who has their own plan for you.   ;D
It's also quite often the case that continuing to work really isn't a viable option. I wouldn't take a low paying job that just made the gap smaller and could have trouble finding one that pays close to what I make now. Timing for it to last until I am 65 could even be tricky because of a product phase out. I am trying to make myself relevant to another project, but so are some younger less expensive guys.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: LeeBee on February 18, 2019, 03:10:43 PM
OK some thoughts from an old retired guy, who made enough money to retired to where I wanted (SW Colorado) at 65 over 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: LeeBee on February 18, 2019, 03:35:10 PM
OK, some thoughts from an old guy, who made enough money to retire to where I wanted (SW Colorado) at 65 over 10 years ago. I paddle on a beautiful 15 mile long reservoir 20 minutes away and sell Mistral paddleboards on the side. Just bought an OC-1 canoe and looking forward to the spring thaw in April o get back on the water. I do go over to Arizona in the late fall and early spring to extend my season. Some points:
1. Stop complaining about all your wrong choices in the past, learn from them, and be honest in where you are in life today.
2. Look at where you would like to be at retirement, both in location and how much you will need to make to live at the economic level you would like to be at.
3. Have someone you trust listen to points 1 & 2 and tell you if you are full of crap or being reasonable in both assessments. Adjust as needed.
4. Put a plan in place to get there. A good starting place is to read (and reread) some books like "Minimalism vs. Consumerism" and cut back your spending. You will save more and retire able to spend less and still be happy.
5. If you find that place you want to be retiring to, and especially if undeveloped property, buy it. The odds are it will appreciate faster than most investments and will further motivate you towards figuring a way to get there.
6. Develop some skill that will allow you to make some money after you move there, and per point 4 enjoy life (and paddling) not "things'.
7. Per point 6 read books like "Deep Work" for hints on how to succeed in the future in an "on-line" business, by developing a skill needed in the future.

Enough lecturing, time to get my snowshoes on and go for a walk with the dogs...good luck
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: PonoBill on February 18, 2019, 05:37:51 PM
I wrote about that a little bit in my retirement book. I'd quote it, but I don't recall where it is, so these numbers are off the top of my head. One way to think about SS is to contrast the money you collect from SS to the same amount of money invested in an annuity. Say you collected 25K in social security and invested the money in a simple annuity. The return you could expect would be about 4 percent. Your SS increases about ten percent for each year you defer. Viewed this way, deferring as long as you can makes the most sense. There are other complexities involving employed spouses, differential ages, and how long you expect to live, but generally,  deferring SS puts you in a better situation later, though the value of that might be a bit slim.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: epoxybrain on February 18, 2019, 08:25:25 PM
And this is why I tune in to the zone! Such a wealth of good perspectives, all united by a shared love of water.

I've read Pono's book on retirement a few times over the last few years, and I had it back onscreen just last week. Well done, Pono, and thank you. I've been a fan of your no-BS approach across many posts, and it was a nice discovery to find you tackling retirement in the same way you've handled a hundred other problems. In fact, this whole thread is full of good insight that is lacking from sources that aren't putting access to water at the top of the hierarchy. 

Once all the spreadsheet dust settles, I'm hoping that when I roll into whatever near-water town I end up in, I discover a 'zoner a couple doors down with a garage stacked with watercraft and littered with odd projects in various stages of completion.

To me, that sounds like a good place to be.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Beasho on February 18, 2019, 08:49:17 PM
Your SS increases about ten percent for each year you defer. Viewed this way, deferring as long as you can makes the most sense.


I am nowhere near retirement age but have been planning for it for 25+ years.  A surfer friend of mine said "Beasho you are good with numbers what should I do with regards to taking my Social Security for retirement?"  His name was Rocky he was 62.

I asked him a few questions and we concluded what you wrote 'The returns are better the longer you wait.' 

I then said "Do you need the money?"  He answered "No!"

So I replied "Then wait".

6 months later Rocky had a heart attack face down in the surf at the Half Moon Bay jetty. 

As sad as it was he didn't need the money. 

https://vimeo.com/158776035

Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: surfcowboy on February 18, 2019, 09:19:39 PM
I also want to point out that even in CA, if you arenít near the coast you can still find an inexpensive lifestyle.

We own a place in the desert that we bought for less than any of you guys in Texas or Wisconsin can boast. Itís a 2.5 hour drive to the coast and the area has none of the ďmore, bigger, fasterĒ culture that people associate with SoCal (itís mostly a lie btw, the South has as much or more of that stuff really from what Iíve seen.)

You can go up the coast and live in a manufactured home 10 min from the beach for not much more than what folks pay on the Gulf coast and still be close to your family and the surf.

Look beyond the McMansions and the 90 miles of coast near the most expensive cities and you can score. The Central coast has tons of great little towns not more than 30 min from the beach. California isnít just LA/OC and SF.

But if you like the desert at all, you can live in this great state for next to nothing and travel when and where you like.

Iím a few years behind you guys but my wife and I are building a low cost real estate portfolio where we can rent them short term for income and travel between them during the various off seasons of each to reduce the income loss. Youíd be surprised whatís out there if you look.

Kudos to those of you who remind us to live and not regret the past. Life in the US can be pretty sweet at most any income level if you have your head right. Also, there are some beautiful places out of the country to go for cheap. Especially if you can fly and stay long term. I love Creekís adventure and urge others to look at the option of a low cost permanent residence and a modest travel budget to get you to warm, great places where you can live for much less than the US.

Costa Rica is expensive in town (but you can still do way better out of the tourist areas.) But it opened my eyes to Central America as a whole.

So many good ideas and attitudes here.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 19, 2019, 05:32:59 AM
I wrote about that a little bit in my retirement book. I'd quote it, but I don't recall where it is, so these numbers are off the top of my head. One way to think about SS is to contrast the money you collect from SS to the same amount of money invested in an annuity. Say you collected 25K in social security and invested the money in a simple annuity. The return you could expect would be about 4 percent. Your SS increases about ten percent for each year you defer. Viewed this way, deferring as long as you can makes the most sense. There are other complexities involving employed spouses, differential ages, and how long you expect to live, but generally,  deferring SS puts you in a better situation later, though the value of that might be a bit slim.

It is complicated. Yes, there is that increase, but it will take a while to catch back up to make up for the money you didn't receive while deferring - the break even point. You likely know this but it's not as much a purposeful incentive to delay as a flaw in the calculation. They calculate it so that at the end of an average life span you will receive roughly the same amount no matter when you start taking it. But they use a number that is too low, given that you have already reached an advanced age. If you are able to defer, you either are healthy enough to continue working or have above average wealth, both of which also increase average life span. The percentage of people who reach retirement age and then live past the break even point is more than 50%, but the percentage of people who live more than 5 years past the break even point is less than 50%. But with a couple the odds of one of you reaching your 90s are much higher. Anyway, the odds of coming out ahead by deferring are in your favor. The odds of coming out way ahead are not.

Whether the draw on my funds to meet expenses while deferring exceeds 4% is a big factor also. Market timing could even make 4% bad. Nearly all my funds are tax deferred, which complicates it further. If I have little to no other income besides the draw on those funds, I will pay the least possible amount of tax on it. When I put it in, I was protecting it from the highest rate I paid at the upper end of my income. My head hurts...

I am almost certainly not taking it until FRA (66+8).
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Tom on February 19, 2019, 09:20:01 AM
I agree with Surfcowboy and he looks like he has a good plan. California also has easy access to Baja, where can stay full or part time near quality surf for about as much as you want to pay. I know a few retired surfers that live in Scorpion Bay for less than they would pay almost anywhere else. 
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: PonoBill on February 19, 2019, 11:21:56 AM
Probably the most important factor in deciding timing for SS is what you'd do to your savings without it. If you are withdrawing more than 4 percent per year then there's a good likelihood it won't continue to support the lifestyle you are living. That's based on some academic research that is probably a bit dated, but I consider it to be still fundamentally valid. If you consider all the risk aspects you generally wind up with the same number even with limited data. You are probably always better off adjusting your lifestyle lower early rather than late. The fundamental investment approach of cost averaging works against you when you are retired--you tend to sell more investments when their value is low. Fortunately, you aren't buying when they are high, but all the timing-related risk elements work against you.

Go cheap early.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on February 19, 2019, 01:28:46 PM
have we all roth'ed our ira's??  if you have sig $$ in, check into this asap

brooklyn is one of the cheapest places to live in the country---if youve lived in a house youve owned for a loong time, and filed no bldg permits, the ratio of face value to annual RE tax is insanely low--lower by far than anything ive ever seen anywhere else

ex: an old brownstone nearby my brooklyn house closed at 3.1mm$, 6 weeks ago--taxes on the house were 6566$ per year--same appx annual tax as one of my houses in CT, which id be hard-pressed to sell for 450K$

now one could sell said brooklyn house and move south (or pretty much anywhere), and get a lot more house for a lot less $$, but the taxes risk being much higher

so there are quirks to the analysis

and like pb, who pays a lotta tax in HI and OR, i am willing to forgo some tax advantage to live where i like, but RTG's damned chart, with NY's winning position, will haunt me!!!
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 19, 2019, 01:39:51 PM
Probably the most important factor in deciding timing for SS is what you'd do to your savings without it. If you are withdrawing more than 4 percent per year then there's a good likelihood it won't continue to support the lifestyle you are living. That's based on some academic research that is probably a bit dated, but I consider it to be still fundamentally valid. If you consider all the risk aspects you generally wind up with the same number even with limited data. You are probably always better off adjusting your lifestyle lower early rather than late. The fundamental investment approach of cost averaging works against you when you are retired--you tend to sell more investments when their value is low. Fortunately, you aren't buying when they are high, but all the timing-related risk elements work against you.

Go cheap early.
In an odd way, it would almost be a good thing if my current job falls a year or so short and I have to take something for significantly less for a year as an adjustment stepping stone. Almost. I had a discouraging conversation today. Management at my current company doesn't think I have much chance of making it to my target date with the current client whether I become relevant on the new project or not. If the client goes away, they will not have anything for me. This is not an urgent situation; it is almost certain that nothing will happen this year and it is unlikely that it would be next year. It's after 2020 that it would get dicey and I want to make it to late 2023.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on February 20, 2019, 04:28:22 AM
Probably the most important factor in deciding timing for SS is what you'd do to your savings without it. If you are withdrawing more than 4 percent per year then there's a good likelihood it won't continue to support the lifestyle you are living. That's based on some academic research that is probably a bit dated, but I consider it to be still fundamentally valid. If you consider all the risk aspects you generally wind up with the same number even with limited data. You are probably always better off adjusting your lifestyle lower early rather than late. The fundamental investment approach of cost averaging works against you when you are retired--you tend to sell more investments when their value is low. Fortunately, you aren't buying when they are high, but all the timing-related risk elements work against you.

Go cheap early.
In an odd way, it would almost be a good thing if my current job falls a year or so short and I have to take something for significantly less for a year as an adjustment stepping stone. Almost. I had a discouraging conversation today. Management at my current company doesn't think I have much chance of making it to my target date with the current client whether I become relevant on the new project or not. If the client goes away, they will not have anything for me. This is not an urgent situation; it is almost certain that nothing will happen this year and it is unlikely that it would be next year. It's after 2020 that it would get dicey and I want to make it to late 2023.
How quickly things can change; it could become urgent based on another conversation yesterday. They may rework the relationship with the client so that they aren't billed for specific individuals at varying rates. Flat rate for support and maintenance for the phase out and not pursue a smaller role in the new project (management here is unconvinced that will amount to anything). The only reason the client would consider this is if it would cut their costs. The only way my company could lower the bill and still have the project be profitable would be to cut their costs. If the small role in the new project is eliminated, we are overstaffed. I am doing most of the work related to the new project. There is a pretty good chance the client will turn that down, though.  They have some control on who is doing what work now and they would lose that. They can cut costs by choosing an individual themselves and they have been asking some questions about people they have little interaction with.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Caribsurf on February 20, 2019, 10:38:12 AM
jumped in on this thread late and slightly off topic but..in regard to pets/retirement , we have been using trustedhousesitters.com and it's been a blessing.  We used to spend thousands in kennel and doggie day care when we traveled , which is a lot of travel for work and to our home in the Grenadines where I type this today. Not only the cost, but the guilt of leaving our pets was hard, but this makes it much easier when we have to travel knowing we have great sitters and pets are comfortable at home and for free...

It's a website that has  scores of people from all over the world  looking to house/pet sit in exchange for a free vacation in your home.  Now it helps if you live near the coast like we do in Florida and Maine and attract many applicants, but even so, people are always willing to travel and see the country.  All prospective sitters who join the website pay a fee and  have thorough police back ground checks and credit checks and they get reviewed by those who they have sat for so you know who is reputable.  It's really amazing.  We have used this service 11 times now and had sitters from Australia, Canada, Italy and of course the U.S. and we have never been disappointed. In fact a few are repeat sitters who enjoyed their stay and our pets so much.   The number of applicants we get is crazy, but we weed them out and then use Skype to interview them.     

It's really a great cost saving and peace of mind..

So before you say no to the pet, check this website out
http://trustedhousesitters.com
   I think I will also post this in the travel section...It works both ways as you can also sign up to be a sitter as well.  Might be a great way to travel the world on a budget
  I think we may sign up to be sitters eventually..
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: PonoBill on February 20, 2019, 02:39:46 PM
RTG, your employer has made it fairly obvious they have no sense of loyalty to you, so perhaps you should look at this as an opportunity. I don't know what kind of business you're in, but if you have any entrepreneurial bent, a client being marginalized is an opportunity.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: surfcowboy on February 21, 2019, 08:03:19 PM
Amen Pono.

Iíve built my client base on helping companies who were left fallow by another company. Weíve moved up to where we get our pick but we still get a half dozen a year that someone left lying half done.

RTG, it changes fast for the good too. Especially in tech. Ride the glide man, all the glides.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: OUTSIDEWAVE on March 09, 2019, 11:50:59 PM
Rtg  based on your description  management  is just waiting for a chance to
cut costs   and that sounds like  you.  Think long and hard be honest   if this client goes,  is there a place for you?   If  the answer is no,   Maybe  dont wait ,  jump ship now!  Competitor perhaps? Can you take that client with you?

 Its a strange and  unforgoving world    i surf with this guy who worked at a municiple job low to medium  field  manager or maintenance   20 years  and gets a very good pension   owns 2 houses  in Oceanside.   Me  worked my way up owned a company only to have  it stolen  pretty much    at one time i made 10 times his salary..  some times  i think  20 years low stress then .......retirement    seems some of our public service folks had the right idea..

My wife loves the trees so we are looking hard at Washington.   We plan on living frugally  we dont travel now and I dont see that changing    in cold weather how much can your heating bill  run   ?  What are utility  food gas   eg  cost of  living  like in Washington?  Any one know?p

Do any if you ever look at the crime stats?  Thats another consideration  but not sure howvreal it is?  While  camping up the coast we went through Eureka   that placevwas scary  easily identifiable meth heads on the street needles condoms and god only knows what other stuff  littered all over.   And just a very bad vibe!
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on March 10, 2019, 04:13:54 AM
20 years low stress...pension....retirement....

no such thing anymore
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 10, 2019, 07:09:43 AM
Just checking in, seeing that I got 3 pieces of advice since I last did.

I am too risk averse at this point in the game to step out on my own. My latest Indeed estimate is that for my position with my experience in my area, I am paid 134% more than the going rate. I have done some poking around and they aren't wrong; a cut of 50% or more is likely if I wanted to be hired anytime soon. So jumping ship before it is blatantly obvious that I need to start packing up is not likely to work in my favor.

The good news is that the client has given me some very positive feedback about my work with their new project. I found the cause of a couple of big problems during a time crunch and one of my contacts tells me she hears my name a lot in a good way. There is no such thing as truly firm footing these days, but I am feeling a lot better than I did not long ago. I don't think the idea of contracting for a generic resource to do my work is going to fly. If they contract for me specifically, management would work the contract to make a profit and be happy to keep me around. There is a chance of that requiring some negotiation though.

The main topic of this thread is really important if you are in good, but not stellar, shape for retirement, which kind of describes my situation. If I land the right place and stay reasonably healthy, I should have a comfortable retirement. The right place would mean that I am happy there and my costs are close to what I expected. Moves are a gamble; sometimes people sell quickly for a profit, but all too often it goes the other way. Having to pay for a move and still paying upkeep, insurance and payments for the place you left for a while can burn through some cash.

I will have to be careful about falling in love with a specific town and/or house too quickly. I have a bad history with used vehicles just "feeling right" and ignoring warning signs. That's just the most obvious example; it's happened with other things. I am going to start doing visits to spots on my list this year geared more toward researching them as places to live; staying at an AirBnB in an area that is a likely candidate for a home, driving in traffic, seeing what there is to do when I am not paddling, fishing or just hanging out at the beach. Do at least a day or two of looking at homes in my range. I will also do some paddling and fishing.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: SUP Leave on March 11, 2019, 10:29:06 AM
Rtg  based on your description  management  is just waiting for a chance to
cut costs   and that sounds like  you.  Think long and hard be honest   if this client goes,  is there a place for you?   If  the answer is no,   Maybe  dont wait ,  jump ship now!  Competitor perhaps? Can you take that client with you?

 Its a strange and  unforgoving world    i surf with this guy who worked at a municiple job low to medium  field  manager or maintenance   20 years  and gets a very good pension   owns 2 houses  in Oceanside.   Me  worked my way up owned a company only to have  it stolen  pretty much    at one time i made 10 times his salary..  some times  i think  20 years low stress then .......retirement    seems some of our public service folks had the right idea..

My wife loves the trees so we are looking hard at Washington.   We plan on living frugally  we dont travel now and I dont see that changing    in cold weather how much can your heating bill  run   ?  What are utility  food gas   eg  cost of  living  like in Washington?  Any one know?p

Do any if you ever look at the crime stats?  Thats another consideration  but not sure howvreal it is?  While  camping up the coast we went through Eureka   that placevwas scary  easily identifiable meth heads on the street needles condoms and god only knows what other stuff  littered all over.   And just a very bad vibe!

WA is pretty temperate on the West side and so your heating/cooling is largely provided by the Pacific Ocean. I pay probably $300 per month average for gas and electric for my antiquated commercial building and roughly $250 for a more updated house. As far as costs of living rural WA is more expensive than Texas, and much less than California. I'm not sure how to encapsulate it. There is no state income tax, but an 8+ percent sales tax.

Property and personal crimes are not horrible, but it depends on where you are just like anywhere.

Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 11, 2019, 06:51:29 PM

Top of my list right now is the FL Space Coast and the first place I plan to visit/look is Melbourne:

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2018/12/07/melbourne-makes-100-best-places-retire-list/2229499002/

That's a recent article, obviously biased, but the list covers a lot of areas. It scores high for value as well as having recreation and weather I want. I plan to head down there for several days within a year to do some serious scouting.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: spirit4earth on March 11, 2019, 07:04:52 PM
Florida sounds good.  They donít tax SSI or retirement income, either.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Caribsurf on March 11, 2019, 08:25:43 PM
I own a home just south of Melbourne in VERO Beach.  I surf in Melbourne a lot and itís a nice, relatively quiet laid back surf town with plenty of great beaches and good surf.  You can always find a beach to surf by yourself. Plenty of good restaurants and even a decent airport for travel.

Much less crowded than south Florida, and while the water isnít always that beautiful tropical blue that south Florida gets, the surf is much, much better and fewer crowds and traffic.  There iare many retirees in the area and as a result plenty of good medical care.  The weather is perfect in the winter when we spend time here.  I am far from retired, but I highly recommend this part of Florida.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Wetstuff on March 12, 2019, 06:40:14 AM
RTG,  A young friend who stayed in the private label trade for the surf industry lives there.  He has had plants in China, NICA, MEX and now the DR.  He says Melbourne is perfect from the standpoint of not being either too rednecky or gated/guarded compoundey.*   If you want his number before heading there for a sniff send me a PM.

Jim

*I asked the same question about looking for a winter escape   ..but, I am about ten years too late, and still have some ideas to play with.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 12, 2019, 07:09:50 AM
Thanks for the feedback!

I visited my sister in Jax back around New Years and paddled in the surf at Amelia island. It wasn't exactly balmy, but I was toasty warm in my 3mm farmer john. I could deal with that, but I want further south. I also have a lot of family in the pan handle (aka Redneck Riviera) but definitely want further south and I am not a huge fan of the local vibe. Beaches are very nice, fishing is incredible and waves are scarce. I have spent a lot of time in FL with people who live there and I have been in the summer and can deal with that; lots of retirees decide the dream is a nightmare when their first long summer rolls around.

I will follow up as it gets closer. I will go twice, once in summer and once in winter, but don't know if I will do this summer or the next.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Caribsurf on March 12, 2019, 07:21:23 AM
Not there in the summer, but even with the long hot summers, there are sea breezes that make it bareable .  Certainly cooler than living inland. 
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Scallop on March 12, 2019, 07:42:08 AM
You can get cold spells even in the FL Keys in the winter, that being said there's definite temperature cutoffs as you travel South through FL.

I live on the same latitude as Melbourne although on the opposite coast, lived on the Southeast coast for 20+ years. The weather here is definitely different from the lower latitudes. Colder in the winter by enough to notice but also more mild in the summer, although it is Florida so....

I think if I were moving for waves it wouldn't be this state but the East coast is better by far. Paddling opportunities in the state as a whole are very diverse, from sheltered bays to spring fed rivers, ocean paddling, etc.

Property tax is low here, in my county if you are over a certain age and you live in your primary residence you are property tax exempt so that's a plus.

The West coast is busy like South Florida in the winter all the way up to my area in Tarpon Springs. It's similar in population density in the winter as points Southeast. Southeast Florida you get no break, it's slammed all year round Palm Beach County South. Here it backs off in the Summer, we much prefer the Summer.

The current plan is to keep our home base here and travel in the Winter on retirement. We are fortunate on the house location and can vacation rent our place easy in the winter and cover any overhead on it.



Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Scallop on March 12, 2019, 07:43:40 AM
Not there in the summer, but even with the long hot summers, there are sea breezes that make it bareable .  Certainly cooler than living inland.

Inland is rough in the summer.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: spirit4earth on March 12, 2019, 08:46:15 AM
And the possibility of recurring Red Tide is a consideration.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 12, 2019, 09:45:16 AM
And the possibility of recurring Red Tide is a consideration.

The Gulf seems to get the worst of that, but yeah, there is some concern on the Atlantic side as well.

Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 12, 2019, 09:58:34 AM
Not there in the summer, but even with the long hot summers, there are sea breezes that make it bareable .  Certainly cooler than living inland.

Inland is rough in the summer.

Interestingly enough, nearly all the Southeast is just as bad except for duration. Other than the Big Bend, FL's humidity levels are not consistently higher than Raleigh, where I currently live. We actually get more of the 100+ days here, but average summer temps are about the same. But "summer" is ~2 months shorter here. Sea breeze definitely helps. I think Sarasota has gotten to 100 once since they started keeping records. We have a few 100+ days every year; we have even had 6 in a row in some recent years. I lived in Atlanta in the late 70s when they had ~40 100+ days in a row. I am okay with moist heat. My arthritis is more than okay with it, though 100+ is kind of pushing it.

Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on March 13, 2019, 06:07:41 AM
retiring?

watch the budget carefully, if you plan on using medicare

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-white-houses-new-budget-exposes-donald-trumps-lies-about-protecting-medicare-and-medicaid?utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_031219&utm_medium=email&bxid=5bea06be24c17c6adf12005c&user_id=18891305&esrc=&utm_term=TNY_Daily

this'll open in incognito if you get paywalled (i subscribe--want nyer to be in business)
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 13, 2019, 07:29:27 AM
retiring?

watch the budget carefully, if you plan on using medicare

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-white-houses-new-budget-exposes-donald-trumps-lies-about-protecting-medicare-and-medicaid?utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_031219&utm_medium=email&bxid=5bea06be24c17c6adf12005c&user_id=18891305&esrc=&utm_term=TNY_Daily

this'll open in incognito if you get paywalled (i subscribe--want nyer to be in business)

Yeah, I have been reading about that. I don't see any serious cuts to Medicare actually passing in Congress. IMO, about the only way such a move has a chance would be to have a future effective date and grandfathering for those already in by that date.

What I do have concerns about is the Medicare rates being substantially raised. that further complicates the decision on when to start taking SS. If you sign up for Medicare and have not started taking SS, you are still subject to rate increases. As soon as you start taking SS, you lock in your rate.

What makes it a good idea to start SS as late as possible is the increased payment. But the increased payment starts from behind and takes a while to make up for all the payments you would have already received at the reduced rate. No matter when I start taking it, I will have received the same amount of money at around age 81 or so. Then delaying pays off because I keep receiving more. But if delaying causes me to absorb a Medicare rate increase, it pushes the catch up date out further and makes the bump smaller once I do catch up.

Then there is the matter of drawing down the retirement account faster while delaying. A lot of articles that push delaying mean delaying retirement, not just starting SS. If you are going to retire either way, then you must choose between taking SS or drawing the full amount to live on from your retirement account or both - supplementing your SS by drawing a smaller amount from retirement savings so the income matches what it would have been if you delayed. If the amount you draw is a small enough percentage of your account, it is very likely it will never run out. That's a hell of a lot more likely if you are just supplementing.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on March 13, 2019, 07:48:41 AM
very interesting--hadnt considered this detail, and I need to at my fair age

thx for the prompt
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: PonoBill on March 13, 2019, 12:17:43 PM
Quite correct RTG, which is why the easiest way to look at SS (though not the most obvious way) is to view it like buying a simple annuity, which is a common decision for people who haven't saved enough to live off when they retire. Annuities suck, unless you need one, and social security looks and feels a lot like an annuity that pays out at eight percent or so if you look at delaying your start date. You do have to take potentially higher medicare payments into account, but be sure to adjust your income expectations to do the calculation for payment. Absent the administration doing something nefarious (likely) the calculation doesn't change dramatically.

The simplest answer generally is that if you can afford to--delay or at least consult an expert, if you can't, then don't.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 13, 2019, 01:46:31 PM
Quite correct RTG, which is why the easiest way to look at SS (though not the most obvious way) is to view it like buying a simple annuity, which is a common decision for people who haven't saved enough to live off when they retire. Annuities suck, unless you need one, and social security looks and feels a lot like an annuity that pays out at eight percent or so if you look at delaying your start date. You do have to take potentially higher medicare payments into account, but be sure to adjust your income expectations to do the calculation for payment. Absent the administration doing something nefarious (likely) the calculation doesn't change dramatically.

The simplest answer generally is that if you can afford to--delay or at least consult an expert, if you can't, then don't.

Running through the scenarios, it is extremely unlikely that I would come out ahead by taking it earlier. Incredibly bad market timing (see 2008) is the only scenario and even then you can't be sure how long it will take to bounce back. There is a slightly more likely scenario that I don't like to spend too much time thinking about where my heirs come out ahead if I don't delay taking it.  But slightly more likely than that is the scenario where I do come out ahead. There is also the added bonus on my account of minimizing tax. When I put it away I was/am protecting it from the highest rate that the upper part of my income is subject to. If I withdraw it as the sole source of income for a few years, it will be taxed the lowest possible rate.

The hard part will be wrapping my mind around the concept that it is okay to touch it after considering it untouchable for the better part of 40 years. I started in my late 20s when it was first available to me. I was surprised at how few people did. Did you not hear the part about the matching being free money? If I wasn't such a conservative chicken about investing for a long time I would be doing very well. I am still doing pretty good. A lot depends on how things go the next 45 months as far as employment, health and unforeseen major expenses.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on March 13, 2019, 02:23:23 PM
investment entry and exit timing is tough--i counsel my kids to NOT attempt to market time, but to mechanically invest monthly to smooth out avg cost, where all will be fine 40 years out

problem with retirement is that sell timing is arbitrarily pegged to age--if you need the money and at least a part is in stox, youve got to sell, even if the market is on a 10 yr low, due for a strong rebound

this is why bogle says--at least your age as percentage of portfolio shd be in fixed income--and better to ladder maturities to anticipated cash need timing--even if FI goes against as rates increase, it always pulls back to par value at maturity


Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 13, 2019, 05:58:37 PM
If the market takes a dive, you shouldn't pull out unless you absolutely need the money. Is using it to delay starting SS an absolute need? It depends...

Probably it is; you will likely still come out ahead. But really bad market timing is about the only scenario in which not delaying when you can afford to might be the better play. It's unlikely, but possible. That's all my point was about various scenarios.

According to this article

https://www.businessinsider.com/social-security-life-table-charts-2014-3

that uses data from SS, at age 60, a man has a 58% chance of living past 80 and a 20% chance of living past 90. Odds are you will come out ahead if you delay, but the odds are against you coming out way ahead. But it's not an even playing field. I don't smoke, my BMI is just under 24, I exercise regularly, have never been treated for a heart condition, high BP or cancer and my dad is about 5 months away from turning 90. There are no guarantees, but my odds are higher than average of making 80 and 90.

There is also the spousal consideration. The spousal benefit doesn't increase past FRA, which is 66 & 8 for me. It remains to be seen if that makes any difference, but that's another story. Something to figure in if it applies to you.

Less than 2% of SS recipients who could have waited until age 70 chose to do so, so as much sense as it makes, there aren't a lot of people doing it, though the chart below indicates that more recently more are waiting; still less than 4%. 57% of people claim SS before their FRA.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2018/06/12/USATODAY/USATODAY/636643892727712218-061218-Claim-ONLINE.png)
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: PonoBill on March 13, 2019, 11:34:11 PM
Of course I waited until 70.5 because, hey, math. We geeks kind of rock that. Most people--okay, say 50 percent, are as dumb as a bag of hammers. Mean but true. When someone says "fifty percent of the public thinks this" my immediate thought is "fifty percent of the public can't find their ass with both hands". A graph like that is the last thing I'd pay attention to.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 14, 2019, 05:08:11 AM
The graph is not part of my decision process. Another factor is comfort zone with remaining balance in retirement accounts when I start taking SS. The math on what that balance can provide annually with a very slow or no decline has some voodoo involved. And it could take an unexpected hit. There is no way to predict how much that could be if it happens. I cannot cover all the "what ifs?" so I have to pick and choose and try to cover the ones with the highest likelihood but factor in costs. The closer I get, the harder it is to be completely objective.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: PonoBill on March 14, 2019, 10:13:59 AM
Yes, but there's body of investment research going back about a hundred years that's relevant to the decision process. The simplest number is you can spend four percent of your savings per year, which is both historically "safe" and makes sense mathematically. I aim for three percent to stay on the conservative side of that.

There's not much point in trying to plan for world economic collapse, which I consider going short on Armageddon. I keep the entire process very simple, with index funds and very low expense for the investments. Being careful about asset allocations is pretty easy and sets the level of risk/reward.

I should clean up my retirement book, bring it up to date and publish it. Most of the stuff I've read is either dated or flat out wrong. One of the better sources is the Bogleheads website--a forum about investing and retirement. Some of the senior members published a book that's pretty useful. I'm permanently (apparently) banned from posting to the forum because I offered my book for free, asking people to review it and comment. My intentions were honorable but stupid. I should have realized the site gets inundated with investment scammers. The material on the site is generally well thought out and useful. A lot of the members are whackjobs, but they don't really harm the content, though they probably have little home altars to Saint Bogle.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 14, 2019, 11:58:50 AM
One of my problems is that I often make logic based decisions and emotional actions which are not always in concert with the decisions. I think that is called being human but I am a little too good at it. No book is going to fix that.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: PonoBill on March 14, 2019, 03:21:39 PM
Tell me about it. I live in Hawaii and Oregon--about the worst places to retire to--unless you're hooked on wind and waves.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 14, 2019, 05:22:07 PM
Tell me about it. I live in Hawaii and Oregon--about the worst places to retire to--unless you're hooked on wind and waves.

Making trade offs, you can retire within your means almost anywhere. HI would be tough; more trade offs than I would like for my budget, especially with regard to housing. I don't care that much about having a big high end place, but I want some semblance of a yard and probably a detached garage out back. I want a sun room. I can get this in an older home in the Space Coast for a very reasonable price. But the point I was making is that I need to be careful that a piece of property fitting that description is sound, in a location I will be happy with and a good financial decision. I could easily fall in love with a house too quickly and ignore some warning signs.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Caribsurf on March 20, 2019, 10:30:48 AM
Melbourne gets top ratings 

 https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/local/2019/03/19/melbourne-named-u-s-news-world-report-top-place-country-live-near-beach/3213085002/?fbclid=IwAR2NZdon9c4FNHMSBAQEICsnIjOuGijQJhlbE4CqekTl_rD51FIf25qdCmE

I  hate when articles like this expose places to the otherwise uninformed 
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on March 20, 2019, 12:59:35 PM
good on florida is it assesses no state inheritance or estate taxes--worth considering, if you are relocating an elderly relative who might have a sizeable estate, or youre relocating an elderly YOU, and YOU might have a sizeable estate

fed is now exempt up to appx 11.5mm--so a person has to be somewhat rich to be affected--but some 16 states, like CT, have estate taxes, wher they assess an effective rate of > 10% on estates in the 3-11.5 mm range--that's real money! and 6 states still have an inheritance tax--maryland is the only state with both!!   ya let's move to baltimore!!

i always giggle when working class trumpians and tea partiers start carping about the "death tax"---they are so conned..........

same giggle when i hear "she wants to tax you 70%" being spoken to a bunch of trumpians--where the avg income in the crowd might be 100k at best.....and they boo mightily!             so funny

Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Rider on March 20, 2019, 06:13:29 PM
eastbound.....I can picture you giggling, and itís a very UGLY picture. Thatís your best shot? It sucks to be you. Cheers
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on March 21, 2019, 04:49:10 AM
did i touch a raw nerve, rider?

sorry if youre one of those folk bitching about the death tax, when you dont even have an ira!!

troll on--and cue up the part (again) where you tell us how wealthy you are

no more giggle--laughing hysterically--thanks much

keep em coming--you make it fun to be me!! yay
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: spirit4earth on March 21, 2019, 06:58:01 AM
good on florida is it assesses no state inheritance or estate taxes--worth considering, if you are relocating an elderly relative who might have a sizeable estate, or youre relocating an elderly YOU, and YOU might have a sizeable estate

fed is now exempt up to appx 11.5mm--so a person has to be somewhat rich to be affected--but some 16 states, like CT, have estate taxes, wher they assess an effective rate of > 10% on estates in the 3-11.5 mm range--that's real money! and 6 states still have an inheritance tax--maryland is the only state with both!!   ya let's move to baltimore!!

i always giggle when working class trumpians and tea partiers start carping about the "death tax"---they are so conned..........

same giggle when i hear "she wants to tax you 70%" being spoken to a bunch of trumpians--where the avg income in the crowd might be 100k at best.....and they boo mightily!             so funny

I want to get out of NC before cashing out my paltry 401k.  North Carolina doesnít need more of my tax money.  Certainly not until the state gov starts doing something helpful with it.

Isnít it amazing how many of the people who support trump are actually going to potentially be hurt by his policies.  I saw a bumper sticker yesterday, ďPrison for HillaryĒ, that was irritating because these people arenít giving a damn about trumpís crimes and general crookedness. 
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Bean on March 21, 2019, 07:46:55 AM
...yay

Clearly we need a kinder gentler Zone... ;D

FL has a great advantage over many other states in that it garners a large chunk of tax revenue from the tourism industry. 
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: spirit4earth on March 21, 2019, 08:02:21 AM
Florida is tempting, but itís so crowded.  I think it might be worth the crowds, though.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: SlatchJim on March 21, 2019, 08:16:09 AM
I'm in the camp that stays put.  I'll probably never move closer than a 45 minute commute to the beach here in So Cal, but I can afford my little house, and should be able to retire before everything goes completely south.  Knowing what's required to live in So Cal, and having done so all my life certainly makes staying more plausible than moving here to retire. 

We do have a rather cool option for future beach access/staycations.  Due to absolutely zero brilliance on my part, my daughter went to school in Santa Barbara (Westmont, no UC Isla Vista) and now has found herself with a career and a strong desire to stay permanently in the area.  We might be called upon to "assist" with a down payment on a house at some distant point in the future.  We've discussed terms: Our bucks buy us lodging for up to a predetermined time limit where we don't wear out our welcome.  A few days a month should be all that's needed to keep the stoke alive and offer a nice break. 

This clever ruse will allow the other part of the plan to come to fruition; going from full time employment to something like 75%, 66%, 50%, done over a few years as my 60's turn into my 70's.   I look at Pono and think to myself "I gotta find a hobby or just keep working."  I think my wife would feed me a high velocity lead pill if I was home all the time.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 21, 2019, 09:59:09 AM
A few comments on some recent posts...

About FL crowds - I am looking at the Space Coast of FL - Brevard County. It is kind of middle ground as far as population/crowds. Big enough to have quality healthcare, ample goods/services available locally, plenty to do and some like minded folks to do things with. But no sprawling metropolis or crazy crowded tourist areas. They get tourists there but the area isn't overwhelmed by them.

I don't have a problem with a large sum of money being taxed when it changes hands, especially when the person or persons receiving it did nothing to earn it.

The biggest recent expansion in US manufacturing seems to be manufacturing facts. The trouble is that everyone agrees with this but fingers are being pointed in all directions. So it is not surprising that some people support politicians who don't seem to have their best interests at heart.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on March 21, 2019, 10:57:14 AM
<<Clearly we need a kinder gentler Zone... ;D>>

actually, i think we already have a very kind zone---as far as these things go

trolls will be trolls---no effect but for fun-or to be ignored---nbd by me

in this case the trolling added laughter, a good thing!

re florida--not for me due to wave scarcity, tho my blue hair would fit in nicely

i will be sure to keep my estate out of CT, which means i have a couple of houses for sale some time before they toe tag me--maybe ill throw em in with the next bklyn blowout!




Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Bean on March 21, 2019, 11:44:59 AM
...re florida--not for me due to wave scarcity...

Same here EB, we actually do live in a very underrated surf destination here in the Mid Atlantic/NE.

On the other hand, hearing PB say that he lives in HI and OR somehow got me totally frothing.  We of course already knew this from his posts over the last few years, but reading it now somehow magnified the effect to total envy. 

I recently had a perfect opportunity to establish a better foothold in HI, but I blew it.  Last month I could have converted (1031) a rental property here in NJ that became vacant.  Instead of finding something on Maui, I found a new tenant, so the cycle continues for at least another year or so.  Did I mention, I blew it...
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Dwight (DW) on March 21, 2019, 12:37:08 PM
Florida is tempting, but itís so crowded.  I think it might be worth the crowds, though.

Florida is crowded if youíre a tourist, because you went to worst places. There are miles of empty beaches and cheap housing.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on March 21, 2019, 01:15:56 PM
totally agree------if you dont need the "right" community and the "right" club, fl is cheap---i prefer "wrong" anyway---less 'tude

problem is wave quality/frequency----since we're "choosing" where to live

Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: burchas on March 21, 2019, 01:56:10 PM
totally agree------if you dont need the "right" community and the "right" club, fl is cheap---i prefer "wrong" anyway---less 'tude

problem is wave quality/frequency----since we're "choosing" where to live

I would agree with that for Southern FL, total junk when it comes to waves. That was my experience.

I recently came back from Northern FL and that was a different world, total joy. 5 great breaks in a radius of 1 hour driving.
I found a working break almost everyday. variety of waves almost no crowds, I was told Floridians are wimps when it comes
to cool weather as to the reason. Definitely worth look.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Caribsurf on March 21, 2019, 02:33:18 PM
Florida is tempting, but itís so crowded.  I think it might be worth the crowds, though.

South Florida is really crowded, and the rare times they get surf it's PACKED .   Melbourne and surrounding areas are great because there are so many empty beaches to choose from and I typically surf alone.  Many times I wish I had  company to lessen my odds of a shark attack   ;D
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: Dwight (DW) on March 21, 2019, 03:41:15 PM
Florida has the most consistent surfable wave on the entire east coast according to Surfer Mag.

https://www.surfer.com/surfing-magazine-archive/surfing-originals/the-10-most-important-waves-in-america/

Foilers paradise too.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BuhwVAnBiIe/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1aozjv9xfukfm
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 21, 2019, 05:29:41 PM
Florida is tempting, but itís so crowded.  I think it might be worth the crowds, though.

South Florida is really crowded, and the rare times they get surf it's PACKED .   Melbourne and surrounding areas are great because there are so many empty beaches to choose from and I typically surf alone.  Many times I wish I had  company to lessen my odds of a shark attack   ;D

I am going to start making somewhat regular trips to Melbourne possibly starting as soon as this summer and definitely next winter. I want to spend time there in different seasons, look for AirBNBs in areas that I can likely afford and make sure I feel like I will enjoy living there and not just visiting.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 21, 2019, 05:37:17 PM
totally agree------if you dont need the "right" community and the "right" club, fl is cheap---i prefer "wrong" anyway---less 'tude

problem is wave quality/frequency----since we're "choosing" where to live

I would agree with that for Southern FL, total junk when it comes to waves. That was my experience.

I recently came back from Northern FL and that was a different world, total joy. 5 great breaks in a radius of 1 hour driving.
I found a working break almost everyday. variety of waves almost no crowds, I was told Floridians are wimps when it comes
to cool weather as to the reason. Definitely worth look.

When I went to Amelia Island, just north of JAX, around New Year's there were a fair number of people out.  I was in a 3mm farmer john and long sleeve rash guard and was toasty. It was reasonably nice out. The Gulf side is really flat and the Atlantic side is flat a lot, but gets more good days.
Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: eastbound on March 21, 2019, 07:17:33 PM
you could be right DW, in that i go to florida for short stints so i am just not there for the swells--so it feels like there is more surf at home--otoh home for me is the break listed first in the article you linked

" if you like big cities and hypothermia......"

and the article understates the area-----btwn monmouth county nj and longbeach ny, mostly within an hours drive of Brooklyn, are breaks that handle 200 degrees plus of wind direction--it's got to be pretty south for there not to be a break that works if there's any sort of swell coming in--like bean said

Title: Re: Retiring But where?
Post by: RideTheGlide on March 22, 2019, 10:02:21 AM
I am not ashamed of being happy with long boards and little waves; the east coast is fine. I am still detoxing from adrenaline overdoses that occurred in the 70s and 80s. If it's dead flat then it's time to fish offshore.