Standup Zone Forum

Stand Up Paddle => Technique => Topic started by: Bean on January 21, 2019, 08:31:52 PM

Title: Paddling Out
Post by: Bean on January 21, 2019, 08:31:52 PM
This video was just posted a couple days ago by Blue Zone SUP and Chase Kosterlitz.  Lots of great tips, some of which we’ve already seen by Clay and others.

https://youtu.be/wP-exrL1JAI
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: TallDude on January 21, 2019, 09:40:46 PM
Pretty much nailed it.. Well done. I totally agree with the switch to prone paddling rather than wasting time trying to stand when the sets just keep rolling in.
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: burchas on January 21, 2019, 10:18:08 PM
Thx Bean. Good refresher.
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: Badger on January 22, 2019, 03:37:38 AM
I wish I could prone paddle.  My back, neck and shoulders won't allow it. Thank goodness for point and reef breaks.

.
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: RideTheGlide on January 22, 2019, 06:31:10 AM
I wish I could prone paddle.  My back, neck and shoulders won't allow it. Thank goodness for point and reef breaks.
No chance with my shoulders either. My left was scoped a few days ago, my right ~3 years ago and at 60, rehab can get you back to the point where you can carefully use them. I had been babying the left trying to rehab it and one of the things that made me decide I had to get it done was "regular" prone surfing on a day when it was tough to get out.

What about knee paddling on the longer boards with a little more volume? For example, a 10' 6" Nalu at 160L?

Another question is about getting out on a big loaded touring board. Is that an entirely different subject?
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: supsean on January 22, 2019, 07:20:19 AM
Great video. Covered elsewhere, but watching Chase do it, with his signature J-Stroke, really brings it home.  Its so great having a master paddler cross over to sup-surfing instruction. Just watch his paddle bracing and J technique in a pool in his video about popping-up. https://youtu.be/R0FNl-Q7uks?t=288
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: Bean on January 22, 2019, 08:05:45 AM

What about knee paddling on the longer boards with a little more volume? For example, a 10' 6" Nalu at 160L?

Another question is about getting out on a big loaded touring board. Is that an entirely different subject?

Getting out for me is a mixed bag, standing, prone and on my knees.  What ever gets me out there fastest is generally what I will do.  You will be amazed though about size of foamballs that you will be able to paddle over while standing if you use your paddle effectively like Chase. 

The only problem with knee paddling is that you can not quickly change your balance front to back. 
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: Wetstuff on January 22, 2019, 09:09:51 AM
My surf boards are too wide to hand paddle.  I look like I am making a snowman face down with about the same forward progress.


Jim
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: PonoBill on January 22, 2019, 10:27:24 AM
The biggest problem I see with knee paddling is that when the wave rolls across your board it has lots to push against. If you are on your feet the resistance is greatly reduced and you can trim and/or catch the board when things go wrong. On your knees, you have limited control. I never prone paddle, my boards are too wide and my back and neck don't allow it. Making one hard stroke as I enter the base of the wave and then reaching across quickly with the blade reversed to give a firm brace, as Chase did on one wave, is the key for me. I get across whitewater that has better surfers falling right next to me--both on foils and SUP. I had to learn to be good at it--it's my only option. It takes me so long to get back to my feet that I would be back in fin-deep water before I got there.

Most of the people I see fall go down in the turbulence after the wave because they are relying on their balance to keep them up, but the turbulence is too random. My balance and flexibility sucks. I have to have an effective brace, and I need to be able to hold it until the turbulence abates. A little "butter the muffin" movement of the paddle keeps the brace positive as long as I need it.

Chase is a far, far better surfer and paddler than I am, with much better balance, strength and flexibility, but I didn't see anything in that relentless short period crap that I couldn't have gone through without getting my hair wet. I would have braced behind every wave because I have no choice. He's relying on skill and balance, I'm relying on a crutch.

Works for me.
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: RideTheGlide on January 22, 2019, 11:06:56 AM

What about knee paddling on the longer boards with a little more volume? For example, a 10' 6" Nalu at 160L?

Another question is about getting out on a big loaded touring board. Is that an entirely different subject?

Getting out for me is a mixed bag, standing, prone and on my knees.  What ever gets me out there fastest is generally what I will do.  You will be amazed though about size of foamballs that you will be able to paddle over while standing if you use your paddle effectively like Chase. 

The only problem with knee paddling is that you can not quickly change your balance front to back.
Every time I roll off the back, the front comes down quite nicely.  ::)  ;D
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: nalu-sup on January 22, 2019, 05:43:53 PM
I have a comment and question about the knee paddle option.
The comment is that I have a friend who used to favor knee paddling, until one day the wave kicked the nose of the board up and hit in the face damaging some teeth.
My question comes from my old days of paddling a long board out, either prone or good old knee paddling (anyone remember "surfer bumps" from knee paddling?). When encountering small to medium white water, a good move was to go into a push up position so that the water could pass between your body and the board, avoiding some of the impact that Pono talked about. My question is how to do this while holding onto the paddle, since the old way involved having both hands wrapped around the rails for stability.
Any thoughts or experience?
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: RideTheGlide on January 22, 2019, 06:50:58 PM
I have a comment and question about the knee paddle option.
The comment is that I have a friend who used to favor knee paddling, until one day the wave kicked the nose of the board up and hit in the face damaging some teeth.

I have only a little experience but I have been knee paddling out a few times when a wave tipped the front up. I fell backward, not forward. My shins were still flat on the board and my trunk was somewhere near 90 degrees from the board, so when it tipped back too far I rolled off. It's what I jokingly referred to a couple of posts ago. Bean was right - from my knees I can't shift much weight forward. I don't consider a face plant to be a viable option; I would rather go off the back.
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: PonoBill on January 22, 2019, 07:09:56 PM
You can catch a board to the chops standing as well as kneeling. I haven't been hit in the face in a long time, but I've blocked the board with a forearm even recently. If the wave catches you just right and your weight is a bit back, up it comes. And there's no time to roll off the back, it's in your face in a microsecond. The gods of wind and wave might spare you and toss you off the back, but a real speedbump kick is over before you can do much. One good reason to have an arm in position. which it will be if you're bracing with the blade forward. It won't be if you brace back and with your weight on the paddle braced back you'll be more likely to have a board kick up. It might bruise your arm a bit, but a slug to the face is an order of magnitude worse.
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: TallDude on January 22, 2019, 07:35:27 PM
I have a comment and question about the knee paddle option.
The comment is that I have a friend who used to favor knee paddling, until one day the wave kicked the nose of the board up and hit in the face damaging some teeth.
My question comes from my old days of paddling a long board out, either prone or good old knee paddling (anyone remember "surfer bumps" from knee paddling?). When encountering small to medium white water, a good move was to go into a push up position so that the water could pass between your body and the board, avoiding some of the impact that Pono talked about. My question is how to do this while holding onto the paddle, since the old way involved having both hands wrapped around the rails for stability.
Any thoughts or experience?
When I prone paddle SUP's into a wall of white water, I'll roll the board 45 deg into my arm pit (like i'm carrying my board on the beach). My paddle will always be in my right hand, so I'll be holding the paddle against the bottom of my board. I always hold the board closer past the midway, closer to the nose. When the white water hits the board up on edge there is very little impact. I've never hurt my shoulder or arm doing this hundreds of times. In some cases it will just slip through my arms, because I can feel the pressure and just let it go. The white water is only hitting a 3" wide section of board. This works on boards up to 19' with 300 plus liters of volume. I know... There is very little impact. Then I just roll back on the board and keep either prone paddling or stand up.
It's funny the mentality of paddling out changed when I started racing Standup where the race starts are through the surf. You are actually racing out and don't have the opportunity to sit and wait for the right moment between sets. You go when they sound the horn. No matter what size the waves are, or if a set is just hitting, or what board you're on. You learn to attack the wave in all different ways. You pickup a bunch new paddling out techniques and attitude. No prone paddling either! I would wait till the last minute, dive on my board, roll it on edge as I hit the white water, then back to my feet and repeat. I almost never lost my board doing that. Going up and over standing you'll definitely lose your board more times than not if the waves are big. 
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: Califoilia on January 22, 2019, 09:04:08 PM
Making one hard stroke as I enter the base of the wave and then reaching across quickly with the blade reversed to give a firm brace, as Chase did on one wave, is the key for me.

I didn't see anything in that relentless short period crap that I couldn't have gone through without getting my hair wet. I would have braced behind every wave because I have no choice. He's relying on skill and balance, I'm relying on a crutch.

Works for me.
Yep, the "...as I enter the base of the wave" is the key IMO (the "one hard paddle stroke" is an added bonus if you can time it right)....so for no better words...just a "SUP duck dive".

Sure, I'm not going to "duck" my whole body all the way under it like Kai's able to do...but I can "dive it" enough that getting the board (and up to waist deep at times) under the top of the white, I'm out the back on top is pretty easy, and not get blow over backwards when I try to ollie over the bigger stuff.

Yep, works for me as well.  :)
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: Fuzzy Boy on January 22, 2019, 11:38:47 PM
Great paddling tips.  Leaning back and pushing your Board forward over the oncoming wave for the most part is also safer for other paddlers and surfers near us. Like the video states, I also find that I can frequently get back on my board faster.

If you can paddle out prone, the “Paddle Belt” is another great option that I use. Your hands are free to hold both rails of your Board. It also saved my butt at Hanalei last winter when I had to swim after my lost SUP Board.  Super easy to swim in with the paddle.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzp7IpaBj6E








Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: Badger on January 23, 2019, 06:34:51 AM
I have a comment and question about the knee paddle option.
The comment is that I have a friend who used to favor knee paddling, until one day the wave kicked the nose of the board up and hit in the face damaging some teeth.
My question comes from my old days of paddling a long board out, either prone or good old knee paddling (anyone remember "surfer bumps" from knee paddling?). When encountering small to medium white water, a good move was to go into a push up position so that the water could pass between your body and the board, avoiding some of the impact that Pono talked about. My question is how to do this while holding onto the paddle, since the old way involved having both hands wrapped around the rails for stability.
Any thoughts or experience?


You can also get hit with the board when standing up. It happened to me two years ago when I had my Stun Gun. I stepped back a bit too far when going over the wave. The nose came up and slammed into my face. I tried to block it with my hands so actually got hit with my fists and paddle. Immediately after the incident, I felt a pain in my jaw. I thought it was an injury from the impact so I kept on surfing. When I got home the pain was still there. It turned out I was having a mild heart attack and had to go to the ER.

.

Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: Bean on January 23, 2019, 07:54:26 AM
Glad you survived it to surf another day Badger!
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: JEG on January 23, 2019, 01:24:30 PM
great tips everyone, thanks.

very lucky Badger, keep it on.
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: supnsurf on January 28, 2019, 06:59:18 PM
Seems like your paddle would beat up your board with it dangling from that paddle belt. 
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: stoneaxe on January 30, 2019, 07:33:40 AM
Vey lucky it was minor Badger. My brother died of a heart attack in the water, drowned after going unconscious. I think about it often anyway but especially when I get a pain that could be a symptom.

Even though I'm still a pretty mediocre surfer I'm pretty good at getting out. I enjoy practising it. That's really all it takes just like everything else. I never prone paddle, mostly try to stand up even when the odds are against me sometimes. I like the challenge of getting over. Best training for it is going out in heavy sloppy chop and fighting it...at least for me.

I'll still knee paddle if it's about scrambling to get going but that's usually about it. You have to read the wave getting over too...mostly depends on the phase the wave is going to be in as you go through that determines how. Sometimes it's best to step back and pop up and over (foamball), other times let the board slice through and take the lip on the body (just starting to break). A lip to the nuts sucks..... :o
Title: Re: Paddling Out
Post by: sflinux on January 31, 2019, 08:01:18 AM
Great topic. 
Joe Blair made a video on how he gets out in the surf on his knees (last minute of this video).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY9MytrZjhw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY9MytrZjhw)
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