Standup Zone Forum
General => Training, Diet, and Fitness => Topic started by: RideTheGlide on January 18, 2019, 12:14:21 PM
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got home from shoulder surgery a few hours ago. it went well. only the labrum needed stitching, the rotator cuff will rehab okay with intact labrum. some bone spurs were also removed.
i am using sprix, choosing to walk around the opioid mine field. i have pt in 6 days. i should be able to use the hand, sling supported, as soon as the block wears off. after bandage comes off on monday, I can shower and use recumbent.
https://www.sprix.com/patient/about-sprix/
strange downside - nasal mist messes with stomach
i could be paddling sooner in april than i thought if rehab goes well.
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Nice! Hope you heal-up fast RTG.
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I know lots of swimmers and paddlers that have had that same surgery. You should be in good shape in about 3 months. Not the quickest recovery, but typically a full recovery.
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RTG- glad you are in good spirits post-op.
What kind of exam or imaging do they do to determine need for that kind of surgery?
I have a 'friend' who hurt their shoulder but is chicken to go to the doctor...
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Yea, I have a "friend" like that too ;D
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RTG- glad you are in good spirits post-op.
What kind of exam or imaging do they do to determine need for that kind of surgery?
I have a 'friend' who hurt their shoulder but is chicken to go to the doctor...
mri. first an x-ray and consult to determine likelihood of tear before expense of mri. my portion of mri was over $700 US. my portion of surgery a little over $1400. they also saw bone spurs on images. doc took pictures of arthritis he will show/give me at follow up. i think that is to explain why it will still hurt sometimes.
yeah, comparatively good news helps a lot with attitude
of course today was near 60 f with only a slight breeze; would have been a good day for a nearby lake paddle
edit - oh and thanks to all
another edit - at least pt is "free" for a few visits when it's rehab. they aren't being nice; the math works in their favor by limiting recurrence. sucks to pay all that, but i know these sorts of costs are inevitable in the US and have rainy day money that doesn't get spent on discretionary stuff.
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I've had numerous shoulder surgeries and I'll give you the same advice I give to any of my friends--do all the PT you are supposed to, and a lot more. Your insurance will probably only pay for a few sessions aimed mostly at teaching you the exercises. That's not really enough. You can do the exercises more frequently and for much longer to improve the end result, or you can arrange for additional PT and do what you can to get insurance to pay. If they simply won't, consider paying directly.
The reasons are long-winded, but suffice it to say that if you don't get movement of your shoulder, arms and core corrected and in synch, then the benefits of the surgery will be short-lived. You'll wind up recruiting other muscles to accomplish the movements you need to make, and your joints are not designed to work the way the recruited muscles do. I was curling my shoulder forward and curving my back to lift any weight above my head. My PT got me to engage my core, push my shoulder blades back and stabilize my shoulder to lift. I doubled the amount of weight I could lift in a stable fashion without straining my lower back with a week of practice.
I've read dozens of studies concerning the benefit of PT either in place of surgery or post-surgery. I had to keep digging out more studies because the results are so counter-intuitive. Even given that there is undoubtedly a broad spectrum of knowledge and capability among PT's and a lot of variation in how much the patients actually stick with the program the effectiveness is undeniable.
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not my first rodeo either. last time (other shoulder) i was whiny and did as little as possible. ended up scarring across bad places and doc had to go back in. he said as soon as i was zoned out he moved the arm through full range of notion and snapped all the scar tissue (it forms in bands). hurt like hell when the block wore off. i am not letting that happen. i was a fat lump feeling sorry for myself that time.
edit - this also resulted in me getting pain pills for quite a while, many of which were washed down with a poor choice of beverage. not my finest hour. that's why i am using sprix for pain this time and also a contributing factor in having gone 572 days without a drink.
another edit: my glide is pretty heavy. i ordered one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WAB7N2/
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Right on Glide!
Part 1 behind you, now it's do what you need to do, to get back on the water :)
Heal well and quickly!
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Good to see your shoulder procedure went well. Hope you have a good recovery with no complications. Work hard in PT since that is what is most important now after your operation.
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Day 2 - Not much pain except when I did pendulum swings (per doctor's orders) - leaning over hanging arm straight down and swing in about a 1' diameter circle a few times in each direction, then back/forth and side to side a few times. Allowed to use hand to type and do other light weight stuff with elbow against ribs and not too long.
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Hey Glide,
Just wanted to wish you well on your recovery. Hope you are healed and back out on the water soon :)
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Thanks. Thinking/hoping a demo day at the Carolina Cup on Friday 4/26 might be a good time to start paddling on water. No loading/unloading or pumping, short distances with frequent breaks and more things to do than just paddling. But I will have to play it by ear as it gets closer.
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RTG.. I don't know if you noticed but you woke the bots. This was at the bottom of the thread.
"Heal Rotator Cuff Pain - Fast, Safe, At Home
Video: What You Must Know Before Attempting To Relieve Rotator Cuff Pain shouldertherapyinstitute.org"
A speedy recovery to you.
Jim
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Heal well....always sucks being out of action.
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RTG.. I don't know if you noticed but you woke the bots. This was at the bottom of the thread.
"Heal Rotator Cuff Pain - Fast, Safe, At Home
Video: What You Must Know Before Attempting To Relieve Rotator Cuff Pain shouldertherapyinstitute.org"
A speedy recovery to you.
Jim
Thanks!
We each have our own set of bots also, based on our own posts and searches. Every now and the you just have to feed them posts or searches with phrases like Fiji beaches and tropical getaways and Caribbean vacations. Then you get nicer ads. Never type wreck tile dust funk shun...
Day 3 going well. Just finished the day 1 vial of Sprix nasal mist; didn't need it first day until block wore off and used it sparingly day 2. Even though it is an NSAID and keeps me out of trouble, the warnings about how much your internals hate the stuff are spooky. It comes in a 5 days supply, but I don't think I will even open the second vial. I think I can switch to ibuprofen from here. I have cabin fever bad, which is purely because I know I can't go anywhere; it's really no worse than other weekends when I have nothing to do. Not really a great day to be outdoors:
(https://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/weather/2019/01/20/18136413/15070-WEBWX-DMID1-5hjcz7sa6-640x360.jpg)
Wind chills are 10 to 15 below those temps and supposed to feel like single digits in the morning. It's that old what you can't have syndrome - I never want to go out and paddle worse than when I know I can't. YouTube only helps so much. But I see creek has another post up; those help...
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Update after 10 days. Was able to start driving last week, holding the wheel at 7 o'clock with left hand when re-positioning right. Started using it a little more than I should have and had some pain. I didn't do any damage to repair, just aggravated muscles that weren't ready for action yet. Backed off. I had PT on Thursday; that's where I got the low down on the pain. See doc this afternoon for stitch removal and follow up with the pictures. I may post some of that later.
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I never come over to this section of the forum but noticed your post in the recent thread activity. Both my shoulders have rotator cuff issues and I know how painful that sh!t can be.
pretty much what prompted me to full time sup w/occasional regulars surfs. My right shoulder was so bad in summer 2008 that I had to hit the ER cuz of the pain. Dilaudid is some strong ass pain kill!
didn't realize you were post-op shoulder surgery. GL on a speedy recovery.
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My right shoulder, around 4 years ago, was at a levitation pain level. This one hasn't been nearly as bad. No opiates just NSAIDs, mostly because I grew a little too fond of opiates dealing with the shoulder pain 4 years ago. But it has been manageable. The muscle pains I have had since the operation are not unexpected and the doc was very pleased with how much I can move. Another 2.5 weeks in the sling, then about 2 weeks after that I will start getting some strength exercises. Just mobility in the meantime, with the PT moving it for me to slowly increase range of motions. 3 months to paddling is realistic if I am not too aggressive. He said after about 4-5 months I will be back to normal except for trying to reach between my shoulder blades in the back. That comes back the slowest. This is all assuming I do everything the PT tells me to, which is absolutely my plan.
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Meant to post this a few days ago after my post op visit.
The tear and the repair:
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The tear and the repair:
Empathy pain cringe response activated! Hope you ain't hurting too bad RTG. Heal quick!
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The tear and the repair:
Empathy pain cringe response activated! Hope you ain't hurting too bad RTG. Heal quick!
The stuff they do while you are out is pretty hair raising. It makes sense to look under the tear before he lashes it to the bone in case there is some loose matter under it, but holy crap that woulda hurt. A lot of the muscle pain isn't from repair, but from pushing muscles aside when he ground off some bone spurs. Didn't bother with those pictures; there is a whole series and I am not sure what is what.
I am actually doing pretty good. I don't wear the sling to sit at the computer and sometimes I forget when going to the kitchen or whatever. I am only 10 days or so from not having to use the sling at all any more. The main reason for it now is to prevent me from extending up and/or out without thinking about it.
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Doc told me I could come out of the sling this week. I wore it to the gym this morning and did an hour and a half of cardio. I changed into my work clothes and looked at that stinky sweat soaked sling and decided it was time to stop using it. I have been in and out as I have been allowed to take it off when I am sitting in a chair with armrests at a desk. Last PT visit started on very slight strength training. Should get a little more today. As soon as I am allowed to, I am going to attach a band to the top piece of a cheap two piece paddle so I can do paddling motion traning.
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I got my PT person to work with me doing a "paddlish" move with a light cable - both "kayakish" and "sup-like" moves.
Hurray for no sling day! :D I remember when just the teeny circles felt soooooo goooood....
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I got my PT person to work with me doing a "paddlish" move with a light cable - both "kayakish" and "sup-like" moves.
Hurray for no sling day! :D I remember when just the teeny circles felt soooooo goooood....
I am done with kayaking. Too much extension up and/or out. I only kayaked twice in 2018 and regretted it the last time I was out. Both shoulders were tweaked and it was just flat water.
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Might be technique? Some? I hardly move my arms now - after 30-plus years of leaning back and using my arms 90%, I caught some training video on Olympic kayaking - it seemed weird when I started (paddle ends up waayyy out away from the boat - or seems to) but my stroke is like 90% torso rotation now. This also has been fantastic for some lower back issue I have. Come to think of it, I was still doing it wrong when I worked with my PT person after my shoulder work.
This video has some good slo-mo - but I apologize in advance if you already have a good stroke :D I'm no expert and don't want to be a know-it-all :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB753_ZEZU0
But I'm glad for you that SUP is working - it's a fun way to flatwater workout. I keeping on SUP is part of why I work hard to keep my shoulders and back happy - it's a reward to myself.
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Might be technique? Some? I hardly move my arms now - after 30-plus years of leaning back and using my arms 90%, I caught some training video on Olympic kayaking - it seemed weird when I started (paddle ends up waayyy out away from the boat - or seems to) but my stroke is like 90% torso rotation now. This also has been fantastic for some lower back issue I have. Come to think of it, I was still doing it wrong when I worked with my PT person after my shoulder work.
This video has some good slo-mo - but I apologize in advance if you already have a good stroke :D I'm no expert and don't want to be a know-it-all :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB753_ZEZU0
But I'm glad for you that SUP is working - it's a fun way to flatwater workout. I keeping on SUP is part of why I work hard to keep my shoulders and back happy - it's a reward to myself.
Freeze frame at 1:17 - that's the worst of it - up and out. Reaching across the body to a vertical paddle with the top hand a bit lower and pushing down is a lot easier. Also my full list of ailments makes it sound like I am falling apart, but most are not that bad if I don't do things to aggravate them. I have bursitis in both hips, herniated discs at L4/L5 and L5/S1 plus spinal stenosis. Sitting in a kayak for very long does cause some back and hip pain. Being able to stand, move around on my feet and sit in various positions or even lie down when taking a break helps tremendously. I also have bursitis in both shoulders; I think that is what gets me the most about the position at 1:17. I think one reason I am susceptible to tearing tendons at the shoulders is that I work hard at keeping the ball from grinding in the socket. Chronic elbow tendinitis. Strong bones held together with rubber bands seems to run in my family. I broke a bone in my hand in my 20s. None of my 3 siblings has ever broken a bone, nor has my dad. All of us have joint problems.
All that stuff is far from debilitating if I take care in what I do, how I do things and exercise to strengthen the muscles around the joints without aggravating them while I do it. I think I screwed up on the last part at the gym in the fall, getting stronger but with too much aggravation.
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Yesterday morning at the gym, I was adjusting a piece of equipment (bodyweight back hyperextension; no arm/shoulder involvement) one handed and I tweaked my right shoulder. So yesterday afternoon PT was adjusted to cover both shoulders. It was only a slight adjustment as a lot of the exercises were already symmetric.
The good news is I actually got a couple of resistance band exercises added in. Just yellow band, but it's a start...
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/2p4AAOSwfxFbiajX/s-l1600.jpg)
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good luck, and yes, advil and all nsaid's have proven to not be the pain panacea they were always said to be
i quit em 2 years ago, after years of taking "vitamin a" pretty much anytime i had severe muscle soreness, or if i wanted to play through pain---like day 3 of a surf or ski trip--hell surf and ski trips i used to just take the crap--no mas--not one dose in 2 years--i get a massage at the excellent cheap chinese place on my block if my pain is overwhelming
nsaids have always been known to seriously irritate, if not damage digestive tract. now compelling research is picking up that nsaid's increase heart attack and stroke risk. and given we are learning that inflammation plays a serious role in health and disease, i dont like taking a med that effs with that process--havent looked back---just dont take any pain relievers anymore--if/when i get serious pain, ill cross the decision bridge then.......
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A big dose of ibuprofen or naproxen, or worse yet predisone if the inflammation is really bad, does reduce inflammation, but the NSAIDs don't really do much for taking the edge off of lingering pain. I usually don't have much inflammation unless I get a bursitis flare. The Sprix was better than most as far as reducing pain but had all sorts of warnings, and the other NSAIDs are just less bad, which is a long way from being okay. After my previous surgeries, I grew overly fond of the opiate pain killers so those are off the table now. Ice it and suck it up.
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Another update...
I have moved up to the red band plus a half step back so it is stretched further for a little more resistance on low rows, which is about the only exercise I get to do with resistance except for the ones done interactively with PT. But I am doing lots of exercise and stretches with no resistance. PT says I am still rehabbing at about the max rate he is comfortable with. I see the doc next late this month.
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Stay on it RTG!
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Stay on it RTG!
The PT was concerned at first when he asked how long it stayed sore and I told him pretty much all the time. But then I explained that every time it stops hurting I exercise again. He suggested I give it a day off every now and then, but as long as I am not continuing to push it past the point of mild pain it's fine. I am not making above average progress because I am lucky.
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After I had my right shoulder rotator cuff repaired and removal of a very large bone spur which caused my problem, my PT schedule was every Monday, Wednesday and Friday in one hour sessions. My PT therapist told me the tendons, ligaments need a day to "rest" after PT. She told if I did PT everyday, I was going to prolong the recovery time.
I did my PT at the Sports Medicine complex where I live for 1 month, 3 times a week for 4 weeks for a total of 12 sessions. After that, I did PT at my home by myself for 11 months with the same time frames, 3 times a week for 48 weeks for a total of 144 sessions.
The result, total range of motion in the my right shoulder and absolutely no pain in the shoulder. The reason for my long PT time was because I was double stitched inside along with the removal of the bone spur which had cut my rotator cuff 90% through.
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I saw the surgeon a couple of days ago, which was a little over 2 months after surgery. I had already burned through my PT (20 visits), but I see a chiro who also does sport medicine (he is team doctor for a couple of local MMA groups) and had done a couple of more with him. I am still going to him once or twice a week and I am very compliant with exercises at home.
My surgeon was very pleased with my progress. I just have to be careful when stretching to increase range of motion. The pain inside the range is muscle weakness; he said the repair is pretty much healed. Paddling toward the end of April should not be a problem as long as it isn't too aggressive. I can ramp it up through May and should be able to do reasonably long touring paddles in June.
This shoulder (left) only a partially torn labrum and some bone spurs, which is why it is rehabbing quickly. When I had my right down a few years ago, the labrum was 60% torn, the rotator cuff 80%, lots of bone spurs, scar tissue and he shaved the end of a shoulder bone to limit impingement. I was in so much pain I didn't do PT hard enough for the first month or so and he had to go back in to clean up scar tissue that formed. Very long rehab on that one.
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Oh yeah, I did get the warning that the tear was not an injury from a single incident but from numerous impingements and rough use when I know my tendons are fairly easily damaged. Loading, unloading and carrying my big board can be rougher on my shoulders than paddling. The danger zones are elbows at or above shoulder height or hands anywhere behind me while bearing any strain. Also, the surgery did nothing for the chronic bursitis. I got a big board padded carrying strap and I will be loading/unloading with help and/or better technique. I have looked at a few ways of loading an end at a time to reduce overhead load.
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First post surgery paddle today, about 100 days since surgery. Felt good. I paddled on a nearby lake, put in 4.4 miles and did one short sprint paddle staying over 5 mph for a little over 30 seconds (per Strava). Bald eagles were pretty active today; saw 3 fairly close up and a few others further away. One of my boys went along and did very well for his first time. He's young, fit and he kayaks so it wasn't that surprising. He couldn't hang with the old man on sprints though. Sticking him on my inflatable all around while I paddled the Glide may have had something to do with that, though... ;)
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youre soon to be history rtg--your boy gon dust you--it's just a matter of time--but itll be a joy when he blows by you!
my girls wait for me at alta these days! hey, it's their turn............