Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: seadart on January 09, 2019, 09:13:08 AM
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Anyone here have experience getting back into the surf after having BPPV attacks? I haven't had any symptons for about a week, and tried body surfing in cold water without it triggering dizzy spins. If you had BPPV, did falling, beatdowns and moving /head neck cause issues when you started surfing again? I'm mostly worried about setting off a severe attack again and not being able to get home from the beach.
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I've recently had issues with it. Mine was caused by inner ear inflammation. Actually had a MRI brain scan. I would hit me randomly. Hit me surfing and driving. Both scary times. For now my head is clear. Surfing and distance paddling, no problems.
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Welcome to my world....:)
Mine isn't BPPV but I have some level of vertigo all the time. From a minor feeling of lightness in my head to times when I can hardly walk....or actually can't....I've fallen more than a few times. It's gotten far worse in the last year or so. Worst part is waking in the middle of the night feeling like I'm falling. Nightmares from that shit.
I don't let it stop me....just the opposite actually. I started because of vertigo. SUP made a huge difference but the last year has been tough. I haven't been able to drive to the beach lately, worried about killing someone if my head goes south and I've had lots of days where I knew it could. I literally just ordered a bike before coming on here and seeing your post. I'll be converting the bike to an e-bike. Beaches are 1 and 1.5 miles in either direction. If I crash a bike it's just me.... :P
I surf dizzy frequently....I stay well away from anyone when I do.
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Welcome to my world....:) Mine isn't BPPV but I have some level of vertigo all the time. From a minor feeling of lightness in my head to times when I can hardly walk....or actually can't....I've fallen more than a few times. It's gotten far worse in the last year or so. Worst part is waking in the middle of the night feeling like I'm falling.
I'm sorry you keep experiencing this. I've had three bouts where things were spinning so fast I could not walk. First time it happened I asked my wife to take me to the emergency room, where I got the whole high tech exam for brain tumor, stroke etc. I think she thought I was dying because I usually refuse for injuries etc. After about a month of this I've learned attacks will pass in a few hours and just ride it out. Slowly seems to be going away for me, but I get random bursts of poor balance. Waking up in the middle of the night doing Mach 2 barrel roles is not fun, I hope they can find something to help you out.
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i have it and it ruined my entire last summer. did the whole brain scan thing and came up nothing. as most who have this find out, medical science doesn't really know what to do about it. BPPV is like getting a diagnosis of irritable bowel syndrome, which means: we know you're hurting but we don't know how to fix it. For me, the BPPV maneuvers made it worse. so you learn to live with it. i was amazed how many other people told me they, or someone they know, also suffers from it. There was no way I could SUP surf during this last bad episode of about 2 months. I started getting better when i decided not to let it trash my life and did as much physical stuff as i could; laying around completely inactive seemed to make it worse. Riding my mountain bike in the woods was the main activity that my head seemed to accept. it's always there, lurking in my head, but i try not to do sudden head movements. and when i'm SUPing, i immediately go to shore if i feel it coming on. The surfing part causes no problems, it's the waiting for the next wave and rocking on the water that can set me off. staying hydrated is very important.
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In case someone other than the affected wonders what the acronym means...
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/vertigo/symptoms-causes/syc-20370055
Thankfully, I have only had a few severe attacks, but I was either; 'having a stroke' ...'a heart attack' ...or the 'old ex' had somehow fed me rat poison. 'Hope things settle for you all.
Jim
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I'm stuck with mine....remnants of tumor radiation and surgery. No vestibular organs on the left side. Hard core paddling retrained my vestibular system. Once the bike gets here and I get it modified I'll be going every day I can. I need to get back into a routine of simply going.
I've given up some stuff...like skiing....I haven'yt biked much either but to hell with it....worse being stuck in the house.
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bob: are you still getting in the water, come what may? i had to stop about a year ago and have been miserable ever since but i really had no choice. did buy an infinity waveski and was able to manage on that but it's not SUP and i wasn't happy on it. had to pretty much give up on two wheels bikes, too, again for balance reasons, and am morosely contemplating an electric trike. i still float around here looking at vids and reading up on various adventures and exploits but i'd sure rather be having them instead. ah well. onward.
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My simple cure: I had terrible trouble with BPPV, so much that I couldn't surf, a few years ago and was able to cure mine. I struggled with it for months and then stumbled on my cure by reading about it online, and it was stupidly simple. I'm not saying this will work on anyone else, but I found my vertigo was related to letting myself get dehydrated. I started drinking lots of water and it totally went away. Now a few years later, when I start to get another attack, I drink lots of water repeatedly for a few days and the vertigo goes away.
Try it. What have you got to lose?
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Wow...I knew stoneaxe had vertigo but there's quite a few of you! Sounds scary. Not the kinda vert you wanna get. :(
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My wife and I have both had attacks over the years, but doing treatments like the Epley maneuver either by ourselves or with a skilled PT has always cured it within an hour, and then we are good for months or years. Both of us have gone surfing and skiing within a few hours of successful treatment, with no problems. For anyone who has this problem, I would suggest finding a skilled PT who specializes in it.
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My wife and I have both had attacks over the years, but doing treatments like the Epley maneuver either by ourselves or with a skilled PT has always cured it within an hour, and then we are good for months or years. Both of us have gone surfing and skiing within a few hours of successful treatment, with no problems. For anyone who has this problem, I would suggest finding a skilled PT who specializes in it.
i'm glad the Epley maneuver worked for you guys, and know it works for many, but for me (and others i've read about) it can make it much worse. i have no idea why this is so, but it's just a warning to anyone who might experience vertigo in the future. try it once and if it makes you worse, don't try it again. a set back dealing with vertigo can last for weeks, months, etc.
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i'm glad the Epley maneuver worked for you guys, and know it works for many, but for me (and others i've read about) it can make it much worse. i have no idea why this is so, but it's just a warning to anyone who might experience vertigo in the future. try it once and if it makes you worse, don't try it again. a set back dealing with vertigo can last for weeks, months, etc.
Me too, I went to a specialist, wore the goggles, took the tests and then they eventually performed a number of specific Epley maneuvers on me. Made me worse for a little then settled down into the same level of vertigo I had before. Only rehydrating myself to the extreme, as I mentioned above, cured me.
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bob: are you still getting in the water, come what may? i had to stop about a year ago and have been miserable ever since but i really had no choice. did buy an infinity waveski and was able to manage on that but it's not SUP and i wasn't happy on it. had to pretty much give up on two wheels bikes, too, again for balance reasons, and am morosely contemplating an electric trike. i still float around here looking at vids and reading up on various adventures and exploits but i'd sure rather be having them instead. ah well. onward.
Trying to anyway. The Bike is about making that happen again. I've even been thinking maybe we should move to get within easy walking distance of the beach but we love the new house.
Sucks that you can't get out. You didn't like the Waveski? I thought I might have to go that route eventually but I tried it and it kills my back.
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I love your spirit stoneaxe!
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Zoo.... 100%. De-hydration is linked to a lot of symptoms. I am the reverse of a 'leaky boat'. I am well ahead of most of you guys and have become Mr. Pee's-a-Lot in the last five years.
I was getting 120 bpm in the middle of the fricking night?! My typical resting is <60. (My wife is a retired RN, we have lots of hardware, O2, etc.) I can get massive, almost to tears, leg cramps in the middle of the night. I drink a couple of glasses of water and they go away. My cardio says my heart is fine; 'Drink more water.'.
Prost! Jim
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Drink more water is fine, but wearing knee-high compression socks during the day cured my wicked cramps, and helps hydration since you aren't pooling blood and fluids in your legs. Give it a try, you might be shocked at how effective it is.
I suspected a difference in waking up to pee, so I tracked peeing at night for 30 days for the days I did and didn't wear compression--days with compression I wake up to pee six nights out of 18. Without the socks, I wake up seven nights out of 12. Almost worth it just for that little improvement. My assumption is that laying down to sleep returns the pooled fluids to the rest of your body and it gets eliminated. Presto--pee. I doubt I'm really right, but it sounds good from an engineering perspective--which I've found is near useless for biology.
Kind of a pain in the ass to get the socks on, but the most effective ones I've found are also the easiest to get on--called Vitalsox, made in Italy with silver thread included in the weave to keep the stink under control. I also note that little cuts on my feet heal well wearing these. They are cheap/reasonably priced depending on how popular a specific color/size was on Amazon. Without the socks, I get cramps after almost every active day. With them, I don't. At all.
I can get away with not wearing them to surf or foil as long as I wear them for the rest of the day, so you don't have to emulate my "homeless mime" look when you get into the water.
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I can attest to the socks working too. I was getting terrible cramps. I drink plenty, not dehydration, and I was waking up with double leg cramps that were killer. Socks fixed them immediately. I just wear them occasionally. if I start getting cramps I wear them for a couple days 24/7....then I won't get any cramps for weeks or more.
Thanks Ninja but its basically just the alternative sucking toads....:)
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PB & Stone- Are the socks only for calf cramps, or do they help with quad or hammy cramps, as well?
I sometimes get excruciating adductor (and/or medial hamstring) cramps. I've played around with hydration, electrolyte balance, stretching, and a few other variables, and none of them seem to be correlated with the cramping. The cause seems to be repeated loaded hip flexion (snowshoeing is a prime culprit, but sometimes I get them after just hiking uphill all day). Fortunately, SUP doesn't involve much hip flexion against resistance (mostly the reverse, ie, using your muscles to *resist* hip flexion while under compressive load, similar to an isometric squat).
Do you think that compression socks would help for adductor/hammy cramps? I've also considered trying compression shorts, but haven't got around to running that particular experiment yet...
TIA for any pearls of wisdom -- leg cramps are a bugger!
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Ok I’ll pitch up my experience as well. I had vertigo my 40’s and started using Flonase and that helped a lot. It’s not overnight, it takes a few weeks to work. Try it as it has no real side effects and is over the counter now. I’m assuming like TallDude that it reduced the inflammation in my ears as well as sinuses.
I now believe mine has a viral component. (Eva the board lady posted up about that and apparently it’s common.) Again, since the drugs are not that serious you might ask your doctor for a round of one of the commonly prescribed anti-virals.
Eply didn’t help me but reducing inflammation in my ears did. I still have it in mild form when I travel sometimes but it’s not enough to treat generally and passes in a few hours.
Hope some of this helps people.
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amazing how many folks here have experienced vertigo! The medical literature is clearly WAY OFf in terms of incidence of this symptom. I too have had scary run ins with vertigo. In my case thought to be BPPV but i later diagnosed as migraine associated vertigo. For me, avoiding dietary triggers such as MSG was the key.
On the subject of vertigo, do others notice that their balance changes from day to day a LOT even when there is NO vertigo?
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JSB, I get cramps all the way up to my abdomen if I don't wear the socks, and the worst cramps are in my quads and hamstrings. You wouldn't expect calf-high socks to help with that, and initially, I wore compression tights, but I tried the calf-high and found they worked to eliminate the cramps. I was still concerned that I might be courting problems down the road since my vein doc recommended tights, so when I went for a followup I asked about them. He had me come in with the socks on after wearing them for a morning and did an ultrasound check for reflux--no problem, the socks were working all the way up my leg.
Cowboy--Flonase is a very useful drug. I've used it to help my balance and to make clearing my tubes easier while diving. It also substantially improves my sense of taste, which is pretty cool. Years ago I caught a virus that gave me a month of intense vertigo. I fell down helplessly if I turned my head. The virus makes the hairs in the balance sensor sticky and they trap and randomly release the crystals that act as a level indicator. It cleared up, but when I had a minor return bout a few years ago I used Flonase and it cleared instantly.
Toolate--my balance changes EVERY day. Some days I can barely stand on my foil board, and some days I am the Master of Balance. I'm going to get some Flonase, I don't know why I didn't think of that sooner. The warning paper that comes with a box of Flonase has the shortest list of side effects I've seen--no anal leakage, no sudden death--the most worrying is over-reliance on it. Fortunately, my ADD ensures I'd never over-rely on anything because I forget it too often.
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Warning:
Not specifically discussing vertigo.... but from what I have read on this thread, I feel it may have some value.
It seems like inflammation may add to the vertigo problem?
folks always seem to take the following advice with a grain of salt,
because it doesn't sound like a solution at all... but I will put it out there again.
My background:
Swim team in a community pool since I could walk
Ear infections became chronic.
Swim team through High school as a distance swimmer.
Started surfing at the same time.
From 1965 to 2014
My ear canals were getting smaller as "swimmers ear" evolved into "surfers ear"
Consequently, they were always blocked up with wax and trying to unblock them always led to inflammation, then infection.
As a result I spent at least 75% of every year deaf in one or both ears.
I don't know one person who has had more ear infections and blockage than me.
Medically known as "exostosis of the external auditory canal,
" surfer's ear is caused by repeated exposure to cold water and wind.
Cooling of the ear canal stimulates bone growth that narrows the canal and blocks the eardrum"
That blockage led to trapped water and wax, which alway became inflamed, then infected
I tried it all:
Doc's Pro Plugs
Silicone plus
vinegar
wax remover
burning cones stuck in my ear (at least that was fun)
ZERO success, no matter what I did.
I wasted untold amount of money getting antibiotics from doctors
Then, in 2014..... it all stopped.
I have NEVER had an infection or hearing loss since.
What changed?
I started wearing a Kook Hat, held on by chin strap with mesh over the ears.(pic)
That's it! Nothing fancy or exotic..... just a kooky looking strapped, trucker Hat.
no... it doesn't keep the water out and it doesn't filter anything...
But what it does do, is keep the WIND off my ears... and keeps my inner ear warmer.
And protects my ears from excessive water pressure during a nasty wipeout.
I don't wear it sometimes.... I wear it ALL the time.
A lifetime of deafness and pain stopped overnight.
I hope this helps someone with ear inflammation or who knows... maybe even vertigo issues.
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I started wearing a Kook Hat, held on by chin strap with mesh over the ears.(pic)
It doesn't keep the water out and it doesn't filter anything...
But what it does do, is keep the WIND off my ears... and keeps my inner ear warmer.
And protects my ears from excessive water pressure during a nasty wipeout.
I hope this helps someone with ear inflammation or who knows... maybe even vertigo issues.
+1 on the trucker hat. Mines an FCS cap...the DaKine looks equally as effective and comfortable.
Four drill outs for me and countless visits to the ENT office for wax dig outs (quite uncomfortable) has me preferring the trucker style hat over the bucket also for that exact reason....BIG help to cover and protect your ears. Only problem is when you prone paddle it obscures your vision quite a bit.
I know nothing of vertigo having never experienced it at all, cept maybe when I went rock climbing like 25 yrs ago, helping out there.so I can't say anything about the trucker hat. Vertigo sounds really frustrating!
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Surf Ears are an other (hear-through) alternative
https://surfears.com/
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I wear a bucket kook hat, mostly because my dermatologist told me I was turning my ears to leather and he'd be cutting the tops of them off pretty soon if I didn't take better care of them. The bucket kook hat is the ultimate in geek nerd tool kook wanker fashion, but it has two advantages over the trucker billed hat--I can flip the bill up out of the way when I'm getting back up to my feet and would like to see the horizon (stability) and it shades my neck, which is a strong secondary reason for wearing one.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46831357_1033749476796290_4892128055503355904_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=573789374723e9e3f38cea44ddd219e9&oe=5CB9AF4E)
My particular bucket has a full-crown pocket in the top of the hat. I don't know what the makers intended me to do with that, but I cut a full-sized circle of 1/4" closed-cell foam that gives me a tiny bit of impact protection, lets me carry boards on my head a little more comfortably, and floats the hat a bit better.
To Creek's point, I have noticed that my hearing has been better lately. I didn't think about why.
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That's an outstanding shot of you on that Kalama board Bill! Thats a good PSA, I have to start wearing my bucket on a regular basis. Having said that, I could not help but be reminded of this gem:
https://youtu.be/vmEV1d7RPvg
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I wear the same hat but your idea for foam on top is a good one.
When it is really windy or big i do wear a helmet I wear a bucket kook hat, mostly because my dermatologist told me I was turning my ears to leather and he'd be cutting the tops of them off pretty soon if I didn't take better care of them. The bucket kook hat is the ultimate in geek nerd tool kook wanker fashion, but it has two advantages over the trucker billed hat--I can flip the bill up out of the way when I'm getting back up to my feet and would like to see the horizon (stability) and it shades my neck, which is a strong secondary reason for wearing one.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46831357_1033749476796290_4892128055503355904_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=573789374723e9e3f38cea44ddd219e9&oe=5CB9AF4E)
My particular bucket has a full-crown pocket in the top of the hat. I don't know what the makers intended me to do with that, but I cut a full-sized circle of 1/4" closed-cell foam that gives me a tiny bit of impact protection, lets me carry boards on my head a little more comfortably, and floats the hat a bit better.
To Creek's point, I have noticed that my hearing has been better lately. I didn't think about why.
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i was also diagnosed with exostosis and now push silicone into my ears every time i go into the water, including every shower. i don't allow water or wind in there. been doing that for about 10 years now. it pretty much eliminated my hearing problems...but my vertigo lives on. fortunately, it is sporadic.
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I've always hated hats....big head, everything looks like a beany. And now with my balance so vision dependent even things like the brim of a hat being a false horizon screws me up. I should get one of creeks hats and cut the brim short or off. Worth a shot and saving my remaining ear/hearing is important to me.
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teah stoney, given your issues, take care them ears--i find pb's hat, with brim flipped up allows best vision--despite that i live in a hood this time of year, when i first cover my ear at end of summer, i notice the effect on balance right away--seems not an issue once ive been hooded for a while
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I hate being hooded. My hearing sucks anyway but I hate not being able to hear with a hood and it definitely effects my balance. Just have to roll with it this time of year.