Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: PonoBill on December 18, 2018, 03:57:06 PM
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Really? Above the lip on a face that size? WTF.
(https://d14fqx6aetz9ka.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/18082808/BROOKS-67651.jpg)
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... And that hollow.
Nikki Brooks on both photos.
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On the day the comp was shut due to it being too big, he’s playing. So wild. Next level.
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what an excellent photo of kai--who is an exceptional unique athlete--but also excellent is the second photo, where the interior of the wave is so clear--window into a wildassed world!
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i put kai and alex honnold in the same boat--guys who are executing some of the most amazing athletic feats ever
if either of them dies, we will all be a part of it---but wow are they amazing--and both athletes are beyond well-prepared for the risks they take, but the risks are certainly part of what compels us to watch..........
my daughter had the good fortune to meet, interview and publish a piece on alex honnold---if kai gets involved in a feature film someday i'll put her on him!
btw--see the film "free solo"--seems just another climbing film, but it it so not--it's a film rich with climbing and natural mountain beauty, but also with human issues that surface in context of this guy's incredible mind and body, what he chooses to do with it, and how that affects his world and the people around him--as well the audience to his feats.
apologies that this is a bit highjacky
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On the day the comp was shut due to it being too big, he’s playing. So wild. Next level.
Wild indeed, and certainly next level, but that was tow-in. There's been a lot of criticism about these contest being canceled or delayed when conditions are too big or crazy, but the contests are paddle-in surfing, and the risks are different.
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btw--see the film "free solo"--seems just another climbing film, but it it so not--it's a film rich with climbing and natural mountain beauty, but also with human issues that surface in context of this guy's incredible mind and body, what he chooses to do with it, and how that affects his world and the people around him--as well the audience to his feats.
Not to hijack your hijack but did you see Dawn Wall? Incredible.
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btw--see the film "free solo"--seems just another climbing film, but it it so not--it's a film rich with climbing and natural mountain beauty, but also with human issues that surface in context of this guy's incredible mind and body, what he chooses to do with it, and how that affects his world and the people around him--as well the audience to his feats.
Not to hijack your hijack but did you see Dawn Wall? Incredible.
Highly recommend both of these. Couldn't wait for Free Solo to come out. Honnold is not of this world. Caldwell is close to that too. Pretty amazing stuff.
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Saw Free Solo and thought about this comparison with big wave surfing. I think Alex wins hands down.
If Kai surfed 120ft wave with no leash, no pfd, no jet ski to pick him up at the end it may come close.
But the fact that Alex is the only human known to ever climb El Capitan "free" all 3000+ feet without dying, while there are dozens who have done things similar to Kai says a lot.
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Saw Free Solo and thought about this comparison with big wave surfing. I think Alex wins hands down.
Absolutely. Look at what these guys are doing (in terms of nutsness - yeah, its a word) and it is no comparison. Same with the Rampage guys.
I love this stuff. No index finger, no problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLd_c4CjG44
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I love watching Kai surf. The kid is so talented. That ride was spectacular! But Honnold? What that dude does is not human and really isn't comparable to surfing- even big waves. Big waves can hurt if you blow it and of course it is possible to get killed but it really isn't likely. Dudes get macked all the time and come out relatively ok. Solo climbers are going to die. Period. There are other climbers who have done similar climbs, they just didn't have a film crew or a social media presence marketing their efforts. That is not a knock on Honnold, I love the guy and hope he keeps safely doing climbs I can enjoy watching from my chair but it is the current reality. He is public and marketed so we know about him but others have done very very similar stuff. Go read Jon Karkauer's account of his solo climb up the Devils Thumb in the late 70's. Or read Mark Twight's early accounts of some of his solo's in the Alps almost 30 years ago. The mind control these guys have is insane. Anyway, right now I can't decide if I want to go surf or ice climb.
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Kai has definitely proved that he is in the top league of multi-sport waterman on the planet...mind blowing performances...he's always been SUPer stoked and humble...it's been really fun to watch his progress...definitely a great subject for a feature film...
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On the day the comp was shut due to it being too big, he’s playing. So wild. Next level.
Wild indeed, and certainly next level, but that was tow-in. There's been a lot of criticism about these contest being canceled or delayed when conditions are too big or crazy, but the contests are paddle-in surfing, and the risks are different.
Agreed, tow-in gives you much better maneuverability, and guts. When he was killing Pe'ahi last month, amazing everyone, that was also a tow-in sesh. But that doesn't take anything away from his amazing talent.
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Haley Fiske was on of the few 'surfers' to realize that Kai's aerial Prowess comes from his varied background - Specifically Windsurfing.
His 20 foot drop down the face at Jaws on his tow-in was little more than a Windsurfing Aerial without the sail.
Not that it makes it any less impressive rather the traditional surfers originally shunned all the aerials when windsurfers have been flying off the face for more than 20 years.
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Kai can prone surf big waves with the best of them...
Not to take away anything from Billy Kemper's WSL win at Jaws Challenge last month...but, there are lots of people that think Kai won the event...check out the vid comments and elsewhere on the internet...etc...regardless, it could have gone either way...
Check out the barrel ride at 1:42...
https://youtu.be/t08M-W6bc_w
In this interview Kai states how all of the other water sports that he is involved in (insert long list), prepared him for those huge waves and that huge air drop at Jaws...and, he's not done in the big wave aerial department...
https://youtu.be/aqRY-W9GYtg
https://www.facebook.com/WSL/videos/wow-kai-lenny/295399197746355/
Phenomenal big wave riding...the stuff surfing cartoons used to be about...;-)
https://youtu.be/SvISdYzhZCI
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All of the guys on the big wave tour and those who are out in mountains on their own have an unparalled
degree of bravery and skill. All one has to do sit in the channel on 20 ft plus day anywhere and it will quickly become all to real what these guy and gals do ! Fun to watch & admire ! Riding moving mountains of water !
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Yes...the gals have really stepped up their game in the big wave arena...
My buddy, Greg Huglin, filmed this HD slomo wipeout at 240 fps of Andrea Moller on that last Jaws swell...OUCH!!!
https://youtu.be/ecSeXiAi2lM
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All of the guys on the big wave tour and those who are out in mountains on their own have an unparalled
degree of bravery and skill. All one has to do sit in the channel on 20 ft plus day anywhere and it will quickly become all to real what these guy and gals do ! Fun to watch & admire ! Riding moving mountains of water !
The difference is consequences. "Everyone who has made free-soloing a big part of their life is dead now".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urRVZ4SW7WU
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It's also the concentration. Even 80' waves only last a few seconds. Honnold was perfectly locked in for FOUR hours. To me that is the piece that is unexplainable.
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I think that was actually 2016 Wardog. But that fall was much more "gentle" than the one that ripped up leg muscles when she did a freefall off the lip. She was hobbling around in a cast for many months. I can't find the video. That was one of the ugliest freefalls I've seen.
If consequence was the only thing that counted then Russian roulette or Opioid addiction would be top of the sports heap. I enjoyed Free Solo, but as a neurologically challenged guy, I recognized Honnold's motivation--nutty as a fruitcake. Or to put it in more PC fashion--a brain someplace on the autism spectrum connected inexplicably to a particular endeavor. He could just as easily be compelled to count every watch in every jeweler's window he passes, as someone I know well simply has to do.
Beasho--Kai said exactly that in a video I saw on Facebook--that the ability to do aerials on a wave like Peahi or Mavericks comes from his windsurfing experience, where it's common. Of course, the enabling factor is not just that he both windsurfs and surfs big waves, but also that tow-in boards have footstraps just like a windsurfer. Landing a bigt drop on a 10-foot gun with no straps would take more than experience--it would take luck and gecko feet.
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I think that was actually 2016 Wardog. But that fall was much more "gentle" than the one that ripped up leg muscles when she did a freefall off the lip. She was hobbling around in a cast for many months. I can't find the video. That was one of the ugliest freefalls I've seen.
Yes...I know...the most recent vid clip from the November contest, that I found when I posted that, was not very clear...but, Greg's showed the consequence(s) of her commitment...here it is...pretty gnarly...a pretty good still popped up on my Instagram feed but I couldn't find it...
https://youtu.be/YjrlOGTxT1k
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Wow. Andrea is tougher than boiled parrot in her sports but so nice in person that it's hard to connect the dots.
I'm reasonably7 sure that's Victor Lopez getting her out of the impact zone and a new loop retrieval thing that looks to work a lot better than the dongle most of the sleds use. Victor was telling us about it after a downwinder two days ago. Sounds like something all the sleds will use soon. It looks like the retrieval loops the Seals use.
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Wow. Andrea is tougher than boiled parrot in her sports but so nice in person that it's hard to connect the dots.
Yes...Andrea is a fantastic multi-sport athlete...first responder...love of dogs and horses...great human...she's been one of Deb's inspirations...
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It's also the concentration. Even 80' waves only last a few seconds. Honnold was perfectly locked in for FOUR hours. To me that is the piece that is unexplainable.
So cool. For the Caldwell "Dawn Wall" effort they were up there for 18 days. That is truly epic. A fall from El Capitan would last longer than a Jaws or Mavs wave (or a hold down). I cannot imagine a sport (or anything) that allows zero margin for error.
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i hope honnold can quit while he's ahead
i have a friend who was an amazing climber--put up many free solos, a few firsts even
he quit--wife got through to him after he had his first kid
i climbed a lot for years--was always meticulous with protection--roped up and put in protection based on how bad a fall would be, not the difficulty of the pitch
unlike free soloists, the knowledge that i had solid protection in was what allowed me to relax and focus
whatever honnold's wiring, the climb was an incredible feat
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Kind of a rambling story in Outside on the two climbers who died last June on El Capitan. Every time I read Outside I wonder if they have any editors.
https://www.outsideonline.com/2373551/death-el-cap
Not to make light of the difficulty and nerve required, but I'm reasonably certain I could prove climbers take bigger risks driving to enjoy their sport than they do climbing. Of course, that includes all climbers, not the specialty of free solo. I don't buy that risk is the ultimate qualifier of sport. If that were true, women texting and doing their makeup at 80 MPH on a two lane road should qualify for better TV coverage than F1 and Red Bull is wasting their time with all that bicycling off cliffs stuff. Self-adsorbed soccer Moms driving through neighborhoods--the ultimate thrill sport.
Oh, and Admin, I know they said there would be no math, but if you fell a thousand feet you'd reach terminal velocity before you hit, so the calculation is a bit messy, but if you ignore that for the first thousand feet (full velocity of about 180 MPH) the fall would take less than eight seconds. If you jumped off the top of El Capitan and cleared everything all the way to the base you'd fall 3000 feet. At terminal velocity (120 MPH/176 feet/sec) a body covers 1000 feet in less than six seconds, so 20 seconds top to bottom. That's both a very short wave and a very short hold down. I'm thinking chree to fi, max.
I doubt Honnold can quit, but he might be able to redirect somewhat.
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It's also the concentration. Even 80' waves only last a few seconds. Honnold was perfectly locked in for FOUR hours. To me that is the piece that is unexplainable.
concentration AND utter confidence beyond confidence...something different there. no possibility of any error
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Oh, and Admin, I know they said there would be no math, but if you fell a thousand feet you'd reach terminal velocity before you hit, so the calculation is a bit messy, but if you ignore that for the first thousand feet (full velocity of about 180 MPH) the fall would take less than eight seconds. If you jumped off the top of El Capitan and cleared everything all the way to the base you'd fall 3000 feet. At terminal velocity (120 MPH/176 feet/sec) a body covers 1000 feet in less than six seconds, so 20 seconds top to bottom. That's both a very short wave and a very short hold down. I'm thinking chree to fi, max.
These guys thought 18 seconds from 3/4 of the way up El Cap. They actually used Hannold as their example (which is funny because my search was just "calculate fall time" :)). They wrote, "Calculate how long Alex Honnold would be in free fall if he fell off 3/4 the way up El Cap. 18 Seconds is a long time to think about your mistakes". https://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1231475371
I agree that risk is not a qualifier for most sport and is certainly only a small element for just having fun. It is though for big waves and big walls. You might get a handful of people to see a movie with the same pitches at 100 feet and the level of surfing on big waves is actually pretty boring if you (could) take the danger out of it.
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im going to finish the piece, pb, but it's gon be a challenge
i thought this might be about your high standards--nope!
im getting my machete out so i can get thru the rest of this
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"The difficulty of the terrain in the section of rock leading to Mammoth Terraces is relatively moderate and would lend itself to experienced climbers placing less protection. However an unprotected fall in any terrain has catastrophic consequences.”
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In my mid 50's, we were servicing some a/c equipment on top of Gas Company Bldg in downtown L A, 55 stories.
There is 5' parapet wall around the top you can look over and window cleaning davids the window cleaners use to repel their scafolds from. I watch these guys with no hesitation lower them selves off to work, wow. I took a look over the edge and the view buckled my knees staring down on a mild windy day, yes these bldg do sway some. All things being equal or not, riding 50 ft waves, climbing cliffs all is speculation for most of us because we have never done nor will we. I surf with a friend on sup in some ( to me giant waves 20ft faces ) the sets are making my knees shake and he telling jokes. I've seen him in bigger stuff alone, then I found out in his younger days he was Half Dome climber among other things.
These guys and gals are wired different than we average thrill seekers. They have a different view of the skills needed, the consequences of failure and the dedication required to attain the goals they strive for. Most are very calculating individuals. All in all a different breed ! The most impressive are the ones who do it with out the pressence of the cameras, sponsors and glitch. In my book the Jeff Clarks of the world are king of pioneering !
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I always think about Alex Honnold’s view on free soloing. He says that a lot of people call him a risk taker but he says that free soloing isn’t risky. He’s calculated and there are things in life that are low-risk but high consequence. His confidence and mental approach assures that the physical act of what he is doing is low risk (to him). You could probably say the same about the big wave folks? Chances of them being in a very bad, inescapable situation are probably low but will usually be high consequence. I’m sure PWC and inflation vests have affectsd this quite a bit in the past 10 years.
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In my mid 50's, we were servicing some a/c equipment on top of Gas Company Bldg in downtown L A, 55 stories.
There is 5' parapet wall around the top you can look over and window cleaning davids the window cleaners use to repel their scafolds from. I watch these guys with no hesitation lower them selves off to work, wow. I took a look over the edge and the view buckled my knees staring down on a mild windy day, yes these bldg do sway some. All things being equal or not, riding 50 ft waves, climbing cliffs all is speculation for most of us because we have never done nor will we. I surf with a friend on sup in some ( to me giant waves 20ft faces ) the sets are making my knees shake and he telling jokes. I've seen him in bigger stuff alone, then I found out in his younger days he was Half Dome climber among other things.
These guys and gals are wired different than we average thrill seekers. They have a different view of the skills needed, the consequences of failure and the dedication required to attain the goals they strive for. Most are very calculating individuals. All in all a different breed ! The most impressive are the ones who do it with out the pressence of the cameras, sponsors and glitch. In my book the Jeff Clarks of the world are king of pioneering !
When I was a whitewater kayaker in my youth, I portaged some rapids that some of the better kayakers didn't even scout. Some of these guys would catch an eddy to surf a wave in the middle of a class V rapid. Sometimes I thought I did get intimidated too easily. When I did the Grand Canyon, I got lost in the haystacks in Hance (rapid) and couldn't spot any of the landmarks that were so easy to see while scouting from above the river. I finally figured out where I was when I came over the top of a wave and found myself on the tongue leading into the "avoid at all costs" hole. I lashed my kayak to a raft for a couple of the bigger rapids after that, though I did convince myself to do a clean run through Crystal. Anyway, the biggest waves I have ever been on the face of were not in the ocean. There is some pucker factor coming over the top of a wave and looking at the next trough about 2 stories below you. Some guys just shrug their shoulders talking about it. I am not sure it is something you can learn to do. There were other kayakers who were just as skilled but showed a lot more concern.
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So how did Alex take a water or potty break during the free solo? He was climbing for hours. I didn't notice a hydration pack on him. Do they plant water bottles or do the camera people carry?
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So how did Alex take a water or potty break during the free solo? He was climbing for hours. I didn't notice a hydration pack on him. Do they plant water bottles or do the camera people carry?
While the overall level of difficulty of that climb is a very hard 5.13a, there are spots that are ledgy scrambles where you can just stand there and pee, or even lie down and nap if you wanted. Those sections don't make the editing cut for obvious reasons, the real climbing, the overhanging hard stuff is the goods. I'm sure he had plenty of water and probably food stashed along the way. He had climbed the thing roped up probably a hundred times before the solo.
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I always think about Alex Honnold’s view on free soloing. He says that a lot of people call him a risk taker but he says that free soloing isn’t risky. He’s calculated and there are things in life that are low-risk but high consequence. His confidence and mental approach assures that the physical act of what he is doing is low risk (to him). You could probably say the same about the big wave folks? Chances of them being in a very bad, inescapable situation are probably low but will usually be high consequence. I’m sure PWC and inflation vests have affectsd this quite a bit in the past 10 years.
We filmed windsurfing at Jaws for many years. In 1998 we were shooting video there and on the biggest day of the season (massive west sets) an unskilled sailor sailed up from Hookipa without ski support. He positioned himself about as poorly as you could and got dumped on an absurd # of times without his gear breaking. He finally trashed his gear and went up on the rocks. He was fine. Could you get hurt, sure, but it exceptionally rare (especially with support and a vest) and dead is almost non-existent. If you fall from height free soloing the outcome is 100%. That is a huge difference.
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These guys thought 18 seconds from 3/4 of the way up El Cap. They actually used Hannold as their example (which is funny because my search was just "calculate fall time" :)). They wrote, "Calculate how long Alex Honnold would be in free fall if he fell off 3/4 the way up El Cap. 18 Seconds is a long time to think about your mistakes". https://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1231475371
That's a dandy resource. I just used the venerable s=1/2at*2 solving for t for the first thousand feet and then assumed a thumb rule for terminal velocity for the last 2000. And had him inexplicably dive from the top. By my method, 2000 feet would be 14 seconds.
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adding to addapost: the extent to which he studied the climb, memorizing details about every single hold, was incredible---the preparation was beyond comprehensive--appropriately so, given the urgency that the feat be accomplished without error
i am anything but an advocate of free-soloing---as an observer, and an ex climber, i am in awe---but i am also concerned that it may be some slow version of suicide--including all the implications for friends and family, and the "complicity" of anyone invested in any way in the process, right down to simply the person who watches the media honnold was paid to be a part of
big mountasin climbers die alot---even those who dont free solo---effing avy took out one of the best, and smartest---one swoop and alex lowe was gone.......
one can flirt with death, yeah, but even well-prepared and very careful, in the mountains death is a random moment away at all times--avy, rock fall, storm, icefall, lightening....................
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adding to addapost: the extent to which he studied the climb, memorizing details about every single hold, was incredible---the preparation was beyond comprehensive--appropriately so, given the urgency that the feat be accomplished without error
i am anything but an advocate of free-soloing---as an observer, and an ex climber, i am in awe---but i am also concerned that it may be some slow version of suicide--including all the implications for friends and family, and the "complicity" of anyone invested in any way in the process, right down to simply the person who watches the media honnold was paid to be a part of
big mountasin climbers die alot---even those who dont free solo---effing avy took out one of the best, and smartest---one swoop and alex lowe was gone.......
one can flirt with death, yeah, but even well-prepared and very careful, in the mountains death is a random moment away at all times--avy, rock fall, storm, icefall, lightening....................
That's why I enjoyed "The Dawn Wall" so much better than "Free Solo". I get that those guys are all professionals and get paid (probably) big bucks to produce something occasionally but Tommy Caldwell and Kevin Jorgenson's Dawn Wall climb was way more like watching two guys work really hard to just climb (oh just the hardest rock climb on earth) while watching Honnold was like a voyeuristic peek at a failed suicide attempt. If you haven't seen "Dawn Wall" it is definitely worth the $5. In my opinion, the best climbing movie yet.
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saw it last night---nice film---very happy kevin finished pitch 15
ive been away from climbing for many years---incredible the extent to which the sport and athletes have evolved:
https://www.outsideonline.com/2344706/dawn-wall-documentary-tommy-caldwell-review
you seen meru?