Standup Zone Forum

General Category => Foil SUP => Topic started by: exiled on December 08, 2018, 10:57:43 PM

Title: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: exiled on December 08, 2018, 10:57:43 PM
Okay, companies are rolling out foils faster than I can keep track, and announcing products that they don't actually have available even faster. My Ke Nalu 775 is about the same size as Go Foil's Iwa and I just can't get it up and flying unless the swell is pretty sizable. Most people I know around my size are riding a Maliko 200, but technically that foil isn't rated for the surf, or for people my size. I'm looking for a foil that is:

1) Available for order right now
2) Can lift a 240 lbs surfer in small surf (.8ft @ 9 sec)
3) Tuttle Mount
4) Not going to void my warranty by taking it in the surf

Is it out there and I'm just missing it, or am I dreaming?
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: steamroller on December 08, 2018, 11:53:56 PM
im 230# and can take off on  1'bumps and get 4 and 5 for.ones all.the time on the maliko 200...ALLthe big guys ride the maliko 200 on a SUP ...nothing else has anywhere nearly enough lift in small.waves....8.months now working GREAT...Alex did his research and development properly....little.guys can pretty much ride anything they want but big guys need the lift only the GoFoil has😁
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: clay on December 09, 2018, 08:48:52 AM
I'm 200lbs.  I have the ride engine/slingshot 84, I rarely ride it unless it's knee high or under, the 76 and smaller wings have enough lift for me.  I have taken the 84 in fast moving overhead surf just to see how it felt, blew me out of the water before I could get my feet set.

As far as warranty/durability.  What I like about these foils is they are modular and affordable, so if something breaks it's relatively cheap to repair/replace.  I have several masts, wings, fuse, and all holding up well.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: Evan Lloyd on December 09, 2018, 09:07:59 AM
The large Naish wing will fly you. Also both the Maliko 200 and the IWA will work for your weight. The Maliko 200 feels like youíre cheating because it flys so weíll and keeps you up on the smalles bumps. The down side is that once the waves get chest high or bigger, the M200 is really hard to keep from blowing out of the water. If you fly without footstraps you can get your feet forward enough to control the lift. With straps I found there was no way to keep the board down on even medium sized waves, even with my strap all the way forward. At the time I was on the Maliko my weight floated between 230-240. My wife put me on a diet and so Iím getting closer to 200 everyday.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: PonoBill on December 09, 2018, 09:24:40 AM
I'm 230lbs and I use the M200 and Iwa. M200 is fine for me in most conditions. I overfoil sometimes, but I think that's more from getting cocky and ignoring proper weight balance than wave size. I've used mine in waves to head high and I can keep it under control, but it requires concentration and lots of weight shift forward during takeoff. The critical element for me is shifting weight forward while I keep my head up and back straight. If I lean forward from the waist I might successfully survive the takeoff and get the foil flying, but converting to a proper position to fly and turn is beyond me--I typically straighten up and blow right out of the water--I manage to do more overfoil faceplants than anyone I know because of this flaw. I like the Iwa a lot in bigger waves. The biggest difference is speed. The M200 gives me time to think and react, the Iwa is faster at everything. LOTS of people here on Maui use the M200 for surfing, I've never heard anything about it being not rated for surfing. I see Alex frequently, I'll ask him about it next time I do, but he's never said anything. I wouldn't use a 280 to surf, but I've seen it done with a really heavy guy.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: PonoBill on December 09, 2018, 09:33:58 AM
From the GoFoil website: M200 

Designed as our primary downwind wing for endless glides on open ocean bumps and stiff offering smooth turning capabilities. The larger surface area of the Maliko 200 makes it the primary choice of those riders looking to take downwinders to the next level or needing maximum lift in the surf.

And yes, it says 210 pounds, no idea why, it's got plenty of lift, I've seen guys who weigh 280 or more riding it.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: exiled on December 09, 2018, 10:01:33 AM
The warranty disclaimer is pretty clear that being 240 lbs and taking it in the surf voids the warranty. I was looking for something more consumer friendly. Ke Nalu has taken very good care of me in that regard, but the current set of wings just isn't big enough for me.

https://gofoil.com/warrantydisclaimer/ (https://gofoil.com/warrantydisclaimer/)
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: Fishman on December 09, 2018, 10:48:09 AM
What actually fails on foils due to surf or heavery riders?
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: PonoBill on December 09, 2018, 01:00:32 PM
Nothing that I've seen. Early on some wings broke out in the socket, and I've seen a broken mast, but most of that stuff was from hitting bottom. Junya broke another company's prototype lightweight wing by pumping on it, but it was fairly light, and Junya could break the ears off a brass donkey.

The m200 will meet the first three of your four criteria. Your choice of how you want to conduct business, but if I had a failure that looked to me like a manufacturing or design defect I'd submit the claim regardless of disclaimers. It's the manufacturers choice to decide how hard a line to take and if they want to honor it or not. When I was doing marketing for a living I'd tell manufacturers over and over that warranties are a marketing expense--the cheapest marketing a company can do. Warranty cost as a percent of sales is typically less than 1 percent and if it's more than three percent then there is a design problem.

I've been riding my M200 for about a year without no problems, including all the learner mishaps, big waves, whacking it into reefs, scraping it on rocks, dropping it and other clumsy stuff. Still fine.

Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: Evan Lloyd on December 09, 2018, 01:08:44 PM
I had a mast snap on me with a M200 wing attached. I fell while paddling out over the surf. The board got rolled by the wave and the mast snapped. Gofoil sold me another mast but it was still over $500 with shipping. It was  an expensive day of surfing.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: sea_mode on December 09, 2018, 04:41:20 PM
Im 270 and I switch back and forth btwn the m200 and the iwa when prone surfing. Standup would be m200. The warranty thing is definitely annoying. Especially since GoFoil frequently posts instagram videos of people on m200 (and even some Brett lickle on an M280!) in the surf. But its a great wing and I never feel like Im fighting to get it flying which was definitely the case on my old takuma wing.

Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: frenchfoiler on December 09, 2018, 06:13:28 PM
Remember that the board itself is super important, the lighter the better and easier to fly. So that might be the problem ?

Maybe the Kenalu 775 is the same size as Gofoil IWA but different (not as good ...) ???

Naish XL might be the one you want, from what I heard it is right between IWA and M200.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: PonoBill on December 09, 2018, 06:52:56 PM
It's not a matter of good or bad. Foil design is a tradeoff in factors.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: frenchfoiler on December 09, 2018, 07:28:42 PM
It's not a matter of good or bad. Foil design is a tradeoff in factors.

Yes you are right, a foil that is not good for somebody can be great for somebodyelse.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: SUPeter on December 10, 2018, 08:35:56 AM
It is unfortunate that wing, fuselage and mast building techniques have not kept up with riders needs, at least in the retail world.  There are only two  reasons manufactures do not create extra large wings, meant for the surf zone,  for extra large people.  Time and money.  Larger wings definitely need advanced construction techniques which I have found possible, while at the same time keeping costs down.  Time wise, It takes longer.  But hey, There will be people who will pay higher prices and be glad they did.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: steamroller on December 10, 2018, 03:04:27 PM
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4901/32383000938_bd8e48a017_z.jpg)



get  a GoFoil you will not be disappointed...ive been on head high waves full speeed and hit rocks square....PAAAANNNG!...many times whole learning....oahu...maui...malibu...all over socal....like 10+ times....board stops....i go right over the handlebars...come up thinking....oh shoot....oh Shoot....oh SHOOT!...hope i didnt just destroy my new toy...but...nothing...no damage...maybe a little nick of the paint on the wing..thats it!...Alex did his research and development properly...these things are built SOLID...i certainly do not recommend doing that but ever but im a believer....
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: WindJunkie on December 12, 2018, 04:49:39 PM
My 2 cents.  I started foiling at 235 pounds.  Been foiling for 9 months 4-5 times a week and can do so proficiently.  I started on an m200 but knowing what I know now, would have started on a 1600 wing.  Today, I ride a 1600 and wouldn't go back to a 2000 even in small surf.  I don't find it fun to constantly fight the amount of lift from such a 2000 wing.  I'm guessing it's not the answer you want to hear but if I were you I'd try to make your wing work.  A 1600 wing has plenty of lift.  Not sure how far along you are but a couple of things that may help.  First thing to check is your foot position.  Your front foot should be about 27 inches in front of the front tuttle screw.  If you're still not getting enough move the front foot back an inch at a time.  It's surprising how much of a difference moving your foot back 1 inch makes.  Your back foot should be on the back screw.  I use a foot strap in the front and a kick pad in the back to help find the right place.  Check out Sam Pa'e on youtube explaining moving his weight back and forth on the board.  Once you're on the wave shift your weight to your back foot to lift off then trim level and point down the line.  Last, stay high on the wave ride on the peak if you can.  Most of the time when it feels like I'm not getting power, I'm in the flat in front of the wave.  Anyway, hope that helps.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: PonoBill on December 12, 2018, 08:37:05 PM
Wow, all that is SO right on Junkie. It's easier to have initial success with an M200, but once you can get up on smaller stuff with an Iwa (about 180) you'll hate to bolt the 200 on--as I do when it's really punky. The biggest difference for me is NO faceplants with an Iwa and beaucoup with an M200. All the same, when it's weak, the 200 goes on.

But yeah, if Steamroller can't bust it, it can't be busted. He's a fucking animal, and a blast to foil with.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: exiled on December 13, 2018, 02:13:55 AM
I'm catching waves fine, I'm just not getting enough speed to get off the water unless I have a steep drop. On these small days I'll just grovel along looking like I'm doing the worlds most ridiculous Huntington hop trying to pump the board into the air. I have a pad set 27 inches forward of the bolts. I can have my foot 6 inches short of the pad and still not get up, at which point my stance to too narrow to maintain any kind of balance anyway. The board can catch and stay on the wave, but I can't get the foil up for more than a couple of seconds unless it one of those steep peeling waves that I don't really need a foil for anyway.

I've been at this since May at least once or twice a week trying to make it work, broken two foils already. I'm trashed a lot of gear the internet told me was durable so I'm not too keen on buying anything from a company that has already written me out of the warranty.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: Dwight (DW) on December 13, 2018, 05:00:39 AM
Exiled, what you describe is typical of foiling a wing lacking enough lift for your weight.

Youíre going to need something else.

The only other monster wing game in town to my knowledge is Signature foils Albatross from Africa and Axis foils from New Zealand. Both available in Hawaii, but harder to find mainland.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: Dwight (DW) on December 13, 2018, 05:07:15 AM
Signature Albatross. Itís freaky how far and fast it glides with each pump with a normal size guy.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bqo_LZNHLb0/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=4xeru5p30p9
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: opie on December 13, 2018, 05:13:50 AM
I emailed Signature, they say soon they will be available in U.S., but not yet.  Their foils are all made in South Afrika now.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: Beasho on December 13, 2018, 06:01:06 AM
You can't go wrong with the Maliko 200.

I fell in love with this wing on the East coast in the 8 to 9 second interval waves that predominate.  I was reluctant to use my IWA for fear of missing out on all the flying when it got to be over 5 ft.  I am 'lighter' at 185 but this means you will get more headroom out of the wing.

Here is a video I made of the Carvability.  The TRACE overlays show the cutbacks.  I then added my 118 daughters ability to swing the wing around behind a 5 hp boat.  Any grown man who claims they can't turn the wing I just point to my daughter and say "she can turn it."  Did I mention she had NO experience on water skis or on a surfboard prior to to doing this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKx31uu2DPo
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: Dwight (DW) on December 13, 2018, 07:06:24 AM
I emailed Signature, they say soon they will be available in U.S., but not yet.  Their foils are all made in South Afrika now.

Thatís kinda funny. I guess Maui isnít part of the US. Malt Simmer on Maui is the importer there. Big Mike has one.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: PonoBill on December 13, 2018, 10:30:28 AM
Actually, there are quite a few in Maui. The reason Maui is different isn't geopolitical, it's concentration. If you want to see how your foil will do in the market, Maui is it. Lots of foilers on Oahu or in California as well, but Maui is more concentrated. If Ka'a point is really good the parking lot is packed solid with overflow to the street, and there will be 40 foilers out and 10 more on the beach, ranging from the best in the world to fakers like me. If the Cali waves are good there might be 50 foilers out--scattered along 800 miles of coastline.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: PonoBill on December 13, 2018, 10:38:20 AM
You can't go wrong with the Maliko 200.

I then added my 118 daughters ability to swing the wing around behind a 5 hp boat.  Any grown man who claims they can't turn the wing I just point to my daughter and say "she can turn it."  Did I mention she had NO experience on water skis or on a surfboard prior to doing this.


Ruby's got some great reactions to overfoiling. body forward, head up. That's hard for an old surfer to adapt to.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: WindJunkie on December 13, 2018, 10:54:20 AM
Sounds like you have the foot position.  Maybe there is less energy in the waves there.  Have you tried riding on the hump of the wave?  I mean on the very top, where you are on the verge of falling off the back?  Even on a powerful wave, if you're in the flats in front of it, you wont get any lift or speed.  You also want the foil high in the water, just below breach.  Even on a tiny wave you can unweight by leaping off the board and get the foil up high. 

In retrospect I found the m200 was just masking my shortcomings.  Riding the right size wing makes you chase the wave energy.  If you're going holy crap fast on a knee high wave, you're doing it right.  Can you have someone take a video of you riding?
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: Dwight (DW) on December 13, 2018, 11:23:19 AM
exciled....Iíve got a story you can relate to.

Yesterday I was foiling, when I spotted a new guy on the water. He appeared to be young, talented, and very good. Pumping into every wave he paddled for with ease. Yet, each flight was a dud. He could not keep it airborne. I could tell he was a good foiler from his technique. I was sure he was on a tiny foil, maybe a kite foiler trying to SUP his kite wing, I thought. Waves were waist to head high. Good power.

We met up on the beach, only to discover he was on a huge wing, with the same span as my wing, but mine being a different brand. His wing is a known dud. So we swapped gear. He foiled like a hero on mine.

Wings matter. There are duds out there. Not saying yours is, havenít ridden yours. Just a possibility.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: digger71 on December 13, 2018, 11:38:48 AM
His wing is a known dud.

Feel like naming names?  Am shopping for foils and would like to know before I buy a dud.  Even a PM would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: SanoSlatchSup on December 13, 2018, 12:38:46 PM
I emailed Signature, they say soon they will be available in U.S., but not yet.  Their foils are all made in South Afrika now.

Thatís kinda funny. I guess Maui isnít part of the US. Malt Simmer on Maui is the importer there. Big Mike has one.
I guess not, because apparently when talking about watermen sports, Hawaii is its own whatever...
(https://i.imgur.com/DIx0dRT.png?1)
...nice flag though (even if it does have the GB flag in it, and not the US...but anyway ::)).
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: SanoSlatchSup on December 13, 2018, 12:46:13 PM
I'm catching waves fine, I'm just not getting enough speed to get off the water unless I have a steep drop. On these small days I'll just grovel along looking like I'm doing the worlds most ridiculous Huntington hop trying to pump the board into the air. I have a pad set 27 inches forward of the bolts. I can have my foot 6 inches short of the pad and still not get up, at which point my stance to too narrow to maintain any kind of balance anyway. The board can catch and stay on the wave, but I can't get the foil up for more than a couple of seconds unless it one of those steep peeling waves that I don't really need a foil for anyway.

I've been at this since May at least once or twice a week trying to make it work, broken two foils already. I'm trashed a lot of gear the internet told me was durable so I'm not too keen on buying anything from a company that has already written me out of the warranty.
Not sure what you've tried exiled, but from the sounds of it, you're in the same position I was back in March of this year...not enough foil for the weight it was trying to carry.

I had the Slingshot H2 that I couldn't maintain lift on, and when I finally compared what I had to the Go Foil Maliko 160 out at the time (wardog had this pic I found later)....
(https://i.imgur.com/1wn7bWR.jpg?1)
...I immediately sold all of my stuff, and bought the Iwa/M200 combo, and have had no problem with either flying me great (use the Iwa 95% of the time, and the M200 when there are little to no waves out there).

Please try a larger wing before throwing in the towel, I think you'll be amazed at just how easy it really is with the right equipment.
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: steamroller on December 13, 2018, 11:19:39 PM
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4848/46258212512_d9e62b17e4_z.jpg)



i havent ridden the Iwa wing very much...only 2 times when the waves were reeeeeeaaally BIG...guess im gonna have to try it out soon too....BUT...i got a 6 for 1....1 mile run yesterday on the Maliko200....GoFoil...the best....of the Best...of the BEST....SIR!
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: surfcowboy on December 14, 2018, 07:20:06 PM
Dude, did you ride and pump the entire length of that break?!
Title: Re: Foil for a 240 lbs surfer
Post by: PonoBill on December 15, 2018, 09:58:51 PM
Steamroller has pumping DOWN. I guess that new knee works OK.