Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: lopezwill on November 23, 2018, 09:08:25 PM
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Where I live has gotten very crowded with surfers in the last 4 years. Most of the time there are only a few stand up surfers out but plenty of lay down surfers. I have noticed a down swing of stand up surfing in my area in the last two years. There are only a few spots to surf so traveling to a less crowded location is out for me.
I'm polite out in the water and always try an spread the stoke. I give a lot of waves away, let entire sets go by and try and be patient. I've been surfing many years and I do get some good ones. I've shied away the last couple of years from the crowded spots on good days and chose to surf closed out beach break waves instead. I really have to psych myself up for surfing in these crowded areas but it's the sign of the times here in California. I've decided this winter I'm going to try xtra hard to fit into the crowded line up and sup surf it more often. Sup surfing the closed out bigger days that I used to has become dangerous and no fun.
I usually surf the crowded spots when the winds pick up, tide isn't right or when it looks less crowded. The stink eye I get and the bad vibe just paddling out really affects me when it happens... but it's just the way it is here. I'm a lifelong surfer with a bad neck and dodgy right shoulder. That's why I enjoy sup surfing so much. It doesn't hurt my body. I would continue lay down surfing in these crowds if I could but thats out. I'm coming to the Stand Up Zone for any good tips while sup surfing in the crowds.?
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You're doing all the right things (letting waves go,etc), so at a certain point, you've just gotta develop some thicker skin.
When they see that you can surf, it helps. I'm respectful, but not Mr Nice Guy and let them have all the waves.
Don't let them develop a bully mentality whereby you're nice, they take advantage, and vicious circle.
If they make a bone head move (e.g. drop in on someone, or miss a wave), I let him see me watching--put him in his place.
Stand up for your right to surf there.
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Hi Will
This is a good topic, because many folks experience the same concerns.
So I will write the long answer.... cuz it's as complex, as it is simple.
Simple:
Being a life long surfer, you already know the drill.
Just surf as you always did as a proner, without over doing your SUP advantage.
Complex:
Less SUPs in the water is a good thing.... if they were increasing, the anxiety from surfers would get worse.
I road trip a lot (frequently hours from home)
I always go to good breaks
I like it best when I am the only SUPster at a break
There are always "A"team breaks and "B"team breaks
I tend to leave the best "A" team breaks alone.... but will surf the best of the second tier breaks
Usually that breaks down to... super hollow are tube riding spots, that the best surfers prefer.
Points and reefs that break softer, are where most of the "B" team surfs
One thing you have to realize is that 80% of surfers in a "B" team line up aren't very good, and don't get a lot of waves.
Most of the good guys are decent people, so all you have to deal with is a few D'bags
Surfing is a "Big Dog" sport, so in order to compete at the peak, you must earn your place in any line-up, same as you did as a surfer.
That almost NEVER happens by being polite and giving away too many waves that you are in position for.
Etiquette is a fallacy that almost never happens in the surf world.
No one knows when it is your "turn"... it's always their turn.
Status is achieved by being respectful of the rules, but using all your wave and conditions knowledge to find waves you can "claim" by being in the best position, and go for it!
Don't backdown... surfers love that and will use that against you..
In the very infrequent times that someone gives me shit, just for being a SUPster, I paddle right to them and tell them to shut the fuck up... they usually just paddle away when you call their bluff.
Line-up politics aren't for the feint of heart.
It's been exactly the same for the past 54 years as a surfer.
I always traveled alone, to the best breaks in the world.
Sunset Beach, Pipeline, Hossogor, Noosa, Burleigh Head, Ragland, Swami's, Blacks, the Ranch, San Miguel, Sebastian Inlet...
doesn't matter, it always been the same... prone or SUP
My SUP tactics in a crowded proner line-up, at a good break:
Paddle out wide
NEVER be in the way. Period.
It happens... but really go out of the way to stay way clear of the rider on the wave.
survey the crowd... learn who's who.
There is always a dividing line between the chargers and the also-rans.
I will pick a spot where the biggest sets will swing wide of the main peak, where that surfers can't get to fast enough.
Usually outside of the also-rans
I don't worry about the also-rans and will take the best set waves....
just be aware that the also-rans will always scramble for the shoulder and get in your way.
After a I grab a good set wave, I might move right inside of the main peak.
Note: Surfers tend to push each other further outside to claim the best waves
That frequently means they get too far out to actually catch many waves
I simply snag some smaller inside ones they miss
(you have to know how to stay out of the way, when main peak guys get a set)
Then I'll go outside main peak and grab a prime set wave.... then I'll move back over to the "swing wide" spot again
Move around the break... so no one feels your presence for too long.
Pick good waves... and make the most of them.
I don't get the whole "Wave count" thing.... I have always been a "set surfer".
Quality matters far more than sheer numbers for me.
When I am established at a break:
I am usually the furthest guy outside.
I have a video of a proner from New Jersey (who hates SUP) saying:
"You're the most invisible SUPer I have ever seen.... you don't bug anyone, but you get more waves than anyone in the water" ;D ;D
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Not much to add to Creek's post, great information.
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Surfing is a "Big Dog" sport, so in order to compete at the peak, you must earn your place in any line-up, same as you did as a surfer.
That almost NEVER happens by being polite and giving away too many waves that you are in position for.
Etiquette is a fallacy that almost never happens in the surf world.
No one knows when it is your "turn"... it's always their turn.
Paddle out wide
NEVER be in the way. Period.
Pick good waves... and make the most of them.
Great stuff Creek! Thanks for taking the time to put all that out there. I couldn't agree more regarding taking waves when you are in position. Especially here in SoCal where there are so many good longboarders who can catch just as many, if not more, waves then me. I take my time paddling back out and will even pick off a couple on my way back out if nobody is on them, but once I'm in position I take what comes to me. And most importantly, when you are in position and grab a nice one...don't f@ck it up :)
The only thing I would add is that I also sit down in the line up quite a bit. Lot easier to chat people up when you're not standing over them or paddling circles around them.
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When I’m at a proper spot I tend to go a little narrower, same length.
Ride single fin, too many fins calls attention to you.
Don’t use traction, wax only.
When paddling I try to use both sides and not favor one over the other. Also try to be a bit lower on my board.
Paddle placement is unusual too I keep it sort of tucked. In between the seats of my car.
Ok, just kidding. Creek really covered it. But I will say that if you can prone surf at all, showing up a few times and just sitting in the lineup prone does actually help me out here. When I do paddle, people say hey and note it but they know I won’t hog.
The note about not giving ground is right on too. You have to get in the mix from time to time and don’t miss waves when they come. People pay attention.
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I live in HB and surf the pier mostly or just north. They hate sup's here.
My tactics are to mostly prone paddle. I could paddle out in any size beach break standing up but it seems less obtrusive if i just paddle.out laying down.
I dont sit outside and paddle around standing up. I sit a little on the inside, wait for the second wave of the set and jump to my feet quickly and drop in deep in the pocket with only one or two stokes of the paddle. I can usually kick out and grab the wave behind it with afew strokes pulling wide of the pocket. That takes me out of the line up for a good 15 minutes and ill paddle back out on my stomache.
Sometimes people dont realize im even sup'ing. If im getting a lot of stink eye, ill throw my paddle out to deep water and catch a few really deep prone paddling, i purposely take off behind the foam ball and pump around and call off the stink eye'er.
It works for me,,,im 6'3 240 and really dont give a fuck about much,,,including getting hurt,,,so that helps as well,,,hahahha
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Taking off deeper prone is awesome and hilarious. What a great way to set your position. “Dude, you dropped in on me!” So good.
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Where in California are you surfing? California has more than 850 miles of Coastline. It's hard to believe there are only two spots to surf where you live. Two famous named breaks with crowds I believe, but the beauty of the paddle is it lets you go anywhere on the coast efficiently. If you have to paddle out on your belly and pretend you don't have a paddle, just skip and do the lay-down/proner thing. Windandsea, Steamer Lane, etc ... Some breaks you are not going to fit in no matter what, it just doesn't matter, there are more good spots than where the herds congregate. The herds formed years ago based on public parking availability. The best breaks that you have to hike or paddle to in California, you won't get any stink eye when you show up. If you show up at your local break both when it's bad and when it's good and people know you surf in control and don't hog waves, or paddle for waves you are not going to get, you won't have much of a problem.
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I personally live a couple blocks up from the pier,,,i dont like to travel, i have good waves with a 5 minute walk,,,it makes more sense, to me, to fit in and get my waves without the stink eye and paddle battle.
Standing over everybody, feels kinda dorky
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nuttin!
always a pleasure to hear from you, man
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Wow! These were great responses! Never thought about throwing the paddle out the back and prone surfing my sup. I'll give that a try.
Thanks Creek. I would have never been able to put into words what you wrote. It's mostly what I practice in the crowded line up now.
seadart. I live on the central coast and grew up surfing this small pocket of medium to good reef surfing spots that break in the winter. It's a good hour or more north and south to catch another surf spot. I'm in goodfornothin's camp. I'll just sup surf these few spots close to my house and deal with it.
Hats off to you goodfornothin! I've surfed Huntington pier many times back in the 70's and 80's. It's a rough crowd. Excellent idea prone surfing a few waves on the sup!
I'm not bragging but a few years ago while sup surfing this crowded spot I was paddling back out after catching a wonderful wave. A prone local I've known for years said to me," Don't you ever surf like you used to? What a waist of talent." He was pissed off. His attitude is typical of some of the locals here. They are greedy and don't want to share waves with anybody. As I'm older this selfish, non sharing of waves attitude sickens me.
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I have given up trying to fit in at Santa Cruz breaks. I put my ear plugs in and do my thing. For me to understand what someone is saying they have to be close and loud but even then if I see their lips move I just smile and point to my ear and shake my head. Its a great way to disarm them and it forestalls any more engagement. You just never now who is the asshole at a break. It could even be me :)
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at my local break I usually paddle out an paddle around say hi to a few strangers then paddle out side sit for a set and then cactch a few. usually works pretty well. at 65 I am not going to get into it with any one just not worth it and not going to back down just gonna surf but I do try and be low key.
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at my local break I usually paddle out an paddle around say hi to a few strangers then paddle out side sit for a set and then cactch a few. usually works pretty well. at 65 I am not going to get into it with any one just not worth it and not going to back down just gonna surf but I do try and be low key.
That is exactly how I do it. Saying hi to people is important, I do it even if they ignore me. I like to keep moving, catch a few inside, then outside and always let a few go and try to wait my turn. I surf at a point break so it's easy to sit inside and catch the waves they pass up or miss, then I slowly move out through the pack. I'm often the only standup. They generally accept me as equal, but this is New Hampshire where everyone is courteous and polite. :)
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Hey Will,
Just wondering where you're at on the Central Coast? Morro Bay/Cayucos area or Pismo? I live up in the Bay, but I learned to ride waves down there and still am down there at least a few times a year. Seems there's always plenty of areas to surf in Morro Bay and not have to be in a crowd, particularly further north towards Cayucos which is where I prefer to go out, although right near the Rock and the Cayucos pier it's always ridiculously crowded. Same at the pier in Pismo, but there's always Shell Beach and down by the dunes, right? I've also gone out at spots in MB where there's a group or two of older guys out SUS'ing with no young groms around.
This discussion is also funny for me as someone who bodyboarded before SUS'ing. I never surfed prone. While body boarding is more popular in SoCal and Central Coast (where my custom Toobs board was built), hardly anybody sponges in the Bay Area. Twenty years ago when I first moved here to the Bay, I felt like an outcast on my sponge and tried to make myself scarce. My friends who surfed seemed embarrassed to be seen with me. Also had to get used to surfers constantly heckling me for sponging, mainly because I sat inside and got all the waves they were too far out to catch.
I'm often times the rarity on my stand up at my local breaks, although there's still quite a few people who SUS up here. I tend to paddle out on my knees because I'm lazy and stay on my knees until I see sets rolling in. Otherwise I'm literally towering over people. I've noticed that now in my 40's with lots of grey in my beard, people don't talk shit to me much, but it also helps that I'm 6'5" @ 280. I've definitely gotten a bit of stink eye near the Rock in Morro Bay, but nobody had the balls to say anything to me.
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I'm thinking you've probably already tried it, but back when I lived in Pismo (where I'm pretty sure you're close to), back before SUPs, it would become packed on both sides of the pier on good days. I'd go way north of the pier, like more than 100 yards north, or more if needed. I always seemed to find some good waves, alone, there are some sand bars along there that aren't obvious when looking at that area from the beach, but they are there. I'd often end up out in front of the Kon Tiki, just me, or sometimes with a couple of my close friends.
Palisades was also a good alternative if St. Ann's and Sewers was crowded, but I'd deal with the crowd at St. Ann's if it was good, that was my spot.
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Hi Mark
I live near Pismo and I'm referring to the Pismo Beach pier and reefs at Shell beach area. These spots have gotten very crowded. I usually surf Oceano dunes area but when it gets to big I head for the reefs. It's 1 hour north to Morro Bay and 1.5 hours south to Santa Barbara. I much prefer to surf close to home.
I have made a decision. I'm just going to surf the local reefs a lot more this winter. Crowds and attitudes is just the norm here now. 8)
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What Creek said. except for all the experience stuff....:)
I'm laid back on the water for the most part but I'm not out there to fit in or please anyone but myself. I stand up and paddle almost constantly, standing is the reason I'm out there. On my knees or prone does nothing for me.
I'm considerate by nature, on the water or off. I try do be as my Mom taught me. Do unto others and all that. I'm definitely not a wave hog but when I get one that's mine...it's mine. But please don't fuck with me....especially just because I'm on a SUP. Very happy to live on the east coast where it's less of a problem but so tired of the anti-SUP shit still. Zero patience for it. Glad it so rarely comes my way.
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if I lived in Cali I would wear a TRUMP T shirt and MAGA hat just to pissemoff more! :D
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At 6'7 there is nothing I can do discretely. Evening sitting in the lineup, I look like I'm standing.
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Just showing up regularly at any place helps too. Familiarity seems to diffuse uncertainty in people.
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Just showing up regularly at any place helps too. Familiarity seems to diffuse uncertainty in people.
Good tip. I agree.
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Be confident but make sure you only take your fair share, do not take every wave just because you can. Show that you're actively leaving waves by sitting on your board ( kneeling looks like you're more of a beginner). Keep away from an obvious surfers peak. Surfers tend to follow SUP'ers for some reason - I think it's sometimes because we can see sets coming and tend to find the best point to catch a wave , but there's certainly an element of hostility- don't let it wind you up - its just like crows buzzing a bird of prey, so just keep moving. Avoid confrontation - nothing is guaranteed to ruin your day more.
I've been Sup surfing regularly at a very hostile surf beach for 12 years. Following these rules I've only been involved in 3 verbal exchanges over this time - all of which ruined my day.
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All good stuff! I'm still waiting for someone to show me their deed to the ocean! I am very fortunate to have several sup friendly breaks but regardless I'm not giving in until someone shows me that deed.I have only had one run in and I'm not sure about all the appearance stuff of kneeling vs. standing but I wear Sup Surfing as a badge of courage. I remember when I started sup surfing hearing in an interview, I think with Dave Kalama, "the best surfer is the one having the most fun." So I don't want a run in and I am sure to do the right things, paddling around, giving waves away that are mine, saying hello and alerting the proners to an approaching set but I am also always sure to have the most fun. I really think thats why proners get ticked because we can have fun in so many different conditions. So sometimes (when I'm in the mood which is rare) that means being "a big dog", sometimes I paddle a few blocks down and get a smaller wave all to myself! Maybe I'll go get an outside wave that you can only catch on a sup and sometimes I'll get a late take off on a wave everyone let go. But I'm not letting anyone steal my fun because I'm on a SUP having fun! I gave that away in my one run in....it will not happen again!
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runins are to be avoided
even if you shut a dbag down, it detracts from, or may even ruin any positive psychology (STOKE!) that can be enjoyed...........
funny to read a lot of what i do---like, often if a dbag says something, i point at my ears and shake my head---so funny.....
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I've been watching this for awhile
I kinda approach this a little different.
BEFORE I paddle out I look at the conditions, Crowd and who/where they are lined up
Then I decide on EXACTLY how many waves I'll catch (I also consider my time frame due to shop hours/ personal responsibilities)
Then I paddle wide sit down reassess my waves projection and just flow with the group Not wave hogging but when it rolls to me I take it (making sure I don't screw it up) I knee paddle out (its easier and safer for EVERYONE) I sit on my board till I'm ready to catch a wave (makes me less of a standout) When it looks like one is coming my way I stand up and catch it
Missing waves is a NO NO!
I also have a kind of weird relationship with the lineup.
Since I'm the retailer promoting all aspects of SUP in my area.
Surfer/SUPers/Life gaurds/ grandmothers and every other "Tom, Dick & Harry" come up to me (on the beac,h on the water, when I'm half dressed on the street afterwards) and say "You gotta tell "That guy" to ......."
OK I make polite, quiet & discreet "suggestions" to SUPers who are really out of their comfort zone and have always been received well. But in most cases I respond "THIS IS NOT MY OCEAN I'm not going to try to legislate it"
Even other retailers in other surf spots want to tell me to legislate a surf spots I only rarely surf.
Moral of the story:
Be considerate, catch what you paddle for ride it as well as you can, Be safe and stay out of other people BIZ.
Sorry for the rant
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
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Right on Jim! My philosophy is, if I miss a wave in a full line up, its get out of the way and back to the end of the line.
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if i miss a nice one (that was, in fact, mine) and others have deferred, i not only go to the very back of the line, i might even slither away from the main peak for a self-imposed timeout
sadly, many dont practice this--i am amazed at guys who miss a wave, where everyone lets them have it, and then they just figger they'll go and grab the next one, since after the miss they are finally in good position---why not?? .........dbaggage
and i stay off the main peaks when it's crowded--slide by a grab a setter now and then, but dont linger----and when the proners are so tight they could be holding hands, i just go elsewhere---why mess with their polyamorous romance?
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I appreciate all the advice on this thread.
Am not 6'7" at 280# (more like 5'10" and 185#), but would stand up to those lay-down stinkeyes if I could just advance to a proficient level of SUS'ing and feel more confident.
Problem is, on my Sunova "Creek" 9-1, in anything but very glassy conditions, I fall in alot and miss alot of waves. After 8 months, I'm still pretty unstable in chop. Granted, riding waves, I love it. But, it's definitely not a stability machine, nor was it advertised as such. I was hoping for both: stability and performance.
It makes hanging out in the lineup uncomfortable, so, I hang out to the sides and get the leftovers.
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I appreciate all the advice on this thread.
Am not 6'7" at 280# (more like 5'10" and 185#), but would stand up to those lay-down stinkeyes if I could just advance to a proficient level of SUS'ing and feel more confident.
Problem is, on my Sunova "Creek" 9-1, in anything but very glassy conditions, I fall in alot and miss alot of waves. After 8 months, I'm still pretty unstable in chop. Granted, riding waves, I love it. But, it's definitely not a stability machine, nor was it advertised as such. I was hoping for both: stability and performance.
It makes hanging out in the lineup uncomfortable, so, I hang out to the sides and get the leftovers.
Until you can control your board on the wave and pull out of a wave when it belongs to someone else, you need to stay far away from everybody. The 9'1 Creek should be a very stable board for someone your size. Maybe some flatwater time will help you get used to it.
If that is your first board, you may have started too small. A lot of us started on boards around 10'6 x 32. Bigger boards are easier to learn on. Then you can transition to smaller and smaller boards.
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Hi Mark
I live near Pismo and I'm referring to the Pismo Beach pier and reefs at Shell beach area. These spots have gotten very crowded. I usually surf Oceano dunes area but when it gets to big I head for the reefs. It's 1 hour north to Morro Bay and 1.5 hours south to Santa Barbara. I much prefer to surf close to home.
I have made a decision. I'm just going to surf the local reefs a lot more this winter. Crowds and attitudes is just the norm here now. 8)
Yeah, I feel you on this one. Seems like Pismo has always been crowded, at least as long as I can remember. From my memory, it's usually a lot of college kids from Cal Poly on shortboards. My buddies and I would head to Shell Beach to avoid the crowds, but sounds like that ain't possible anymore. But if it's your break, then it's your break. Familiarity and respect should help, no?
I often look at the cams down there on Surfline just to see how it's breaking and have noticed there's rarely anybody riding stand ups at the pier. I only asked about MB/Cayucos b/c I've been out and seen a lot more older guys riding longboards and Sups in that area.
If you want to see the ultimate shit show, check out the Pacifica cam on Surfline on a decent day. I don't know how anybody has any fun or catches any waves. Even on a weekday at 11am, it's stupid crowded.
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Somewhat related, the area in discussion. I just saw this depressing pic the other day, which makes me glad I moved farther up the coast, it makes me feel sorry for the surfers I left behind when I moved. However it does make it easier for the SUP surfers, but also to the chagrin of the proners, unless the surf is small when they aren't out.
New steps.
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socalgremmy, the performance foil in the rails, give all Sunova's a bit of tipsiness ... your problem may be corrected by your stance.
Feet too close to the rail, make for over correcting when you tip.
my stance:
Both feet close to center
One foot just forward of handle
One foot just behind the handle - toes turned slightly out
That gives me fore and aft control, as well as side to side
Close together means tips are not to dramatic and can be corrected with minimal movement.
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Thanks STC; I'll try that.
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I will offer what not to do.
I was surfing prone at a very remote outer reef.
Three SUPs paddled out. Two of them were on their knees cause they could not stand up in the chop because the wind was from the East.
All three were in over their head and got obliterated at the first set that came in when they were unprepared.
The spot is rocky, shallow, dangerous, and very far offshore. They were in over their head surfing a spot where they should not have been.
They put other people in danger and would make others risk their life to assist should it have went further south. luckily they paddled in on their own accord after that set.
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I will offer what not to do.
I was surfing prone at a very remote outer reef.
Three SUPs paddled out. Two of them were on their knees cause they could not stand up in the chop because the wind was from the East.
All three were in over their head and got obliterated at the first set that came in when they were unprepared.
The spot is rocky, shallow, dangerous, and very far offshore. They were in over their head surfing a spot where they should not have been.
They put other people in danger and would make others risk their life to assist should it have went further south. luckily they paddled in on their own accord after that set.
Life lession....The Ocean is a great teacher.