Standup Zone Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zooport on November 23, 2018, 03:43:53 AM

Title: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: Zooport on November 23, 2018, 03:43:53 AM
Where do you see the sport going?  Foiling looks like so much fun, is it gong to replace regular SUP?  Reading the Zone, it looks that way. 
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: beached on November 23, 2018, 04:28:14 AM
i don't think so. SUP foiling is very limited in my area because we just don't get those types of rolling waves (e.g., Hawaii) that would make it interesting. as a kite foiler, i still prefer to use my regular surfboard if conditions are actually good. the foil is a tool to get out there when conditions suck. i think the same applies to surfing...if conditions are good enough to just surf without a foil, that's what we'll do. a few have tried SUP foiling around here, and stopped pretty quickly.  a few still do it.  personally, i don't want to be in whitewash with a big ginsu knife under my board. my legs have enough scars from kite foiling as is.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: Night Wing on November 23, 2018, 04:32:30 AM
I think it depends on a few factors such as where you surf, the depth of the water and the color of water. I'll explain with some examples.

Here on the upper Texas coast where I sup surf, Galveston Island and the Bolivar Peninsula, the water is very shallow. In some places you can wade out over 100 yards from the beach and still be in waist deep water. The waves aren't really waves either. Since the bottom contour is so flat, there aren't any waves to speak of. Maybe 1' waves in height if the wind is blowing around 10 mph. The color of the water is sandy brown to chocolate color.

Since a person can't see the bottom to determine how deep the water is; if a person "could" foil, if the foil hits the bottom, the person is going to go "head first over the board" when the board suddenly and violently stops and the tail end of the board, since the board is connected to the foiler by a leash, means the tail end of the board has a very good chance of landing on the foiler.

So the chances of foiling where I sup surf is almost non existent. Watching the streaming webcams where I sup surf, I've seen exactly "one" foiler in all of 2018 up to this point in time.

I will say this, the only place I think foiling is feasible on the upper Texas coast is at Surfside, Texas where the water is deeper and the waves are bigger when the inshore wind is around 20 mph or higher. But the problem remains with the water color because if one foils into shallow water, because they can't see how shallow the water is, they're just asking for trouble which will put themselves in harm's way.

Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on November 23, 2018, 04:34:54 AM
i don't think so. SUP foiling is very limited in my area because we just don't get those types of rolling waves (e.g., Hawaii) that would make it interesting. as a kite foiler, i still prefer to use my regular surfboard if conditions are actually good. the foil is a tool to get out there when conditions suck. i think the same applies to surfing...if conditions are good enough to just surf without a foil, that's what we'll do. a few have tried SUP foiling around here, and stopped pretty quickly.  a few still do it.  personally, i don't want to be in whitewash with a big ginsu knife under my board. my legs have enough scars from kite foiling as is.

Agreed with all of this - it's a great tool, but it's just like everything else, conditions and skill-dependent, much more so than normal SUP surfing. You can essentially SUP surf just about any conditions, whereas SUP foiling has a pretty limited range of conditions that work well IMO. Also, the skill/cost level right now is still prohibitive to gain market share over SUP surf.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: Dwight (DW) on November 23, 2018, 05:06:34 AM
Nightwing....some encouragement from South Padre

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpxIVTtH-Ul/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=110v3z6y2n9x5
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: Ichabod Spoonbill on November 23, 2018, 05:32:58 AM
People are starting to windfoil where I am, but I don't think SUPfoiling will make it on the Hudson. No waves, but lots of wind.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: Wetstuff on November 23, 2018, 06:49:02 AM
SUP/Foil ...may somewhat resemble Poleboarding/Kiteboarding:  Windsurfing seemed massive in its early years - the masses, whether farm pond or Ocean could do it - easily.  "Everybody is having fun!"  Either it was not quite so easy or back-n-forth got boring after X rounds, but suddenly it seemed only Euros or performance titans like Robbie did it.  Kites kicked in ...in, what appeared to be smaller, public-participation numbers.  ...almost cutting out women generally.

SUP -  "Everybody is having fun!"  ...'till it became work or they need a new thrill.  Interestingly, women paddled away from the 'Show me your ___s.' guys and did their own thing - like Yoga.  In my (surf) area, women appear to participate in slightly higher percentages than kited, but that is also true for surf generally compared to the 80's. The one hardcore kiting lady I know (who also taught Pole) does not foil. 

There does seem to be more energy in the Foil SUP column here. There's a few like Rick (Creek) who seem willing to put a little effort to keep the general columns afloat, but it seems many have, perhaps not lost their stoke, but the eagerness to share it.  Remember when even the paddle designers had a shoulder into it?  Those were exciting times, here and Youtube.

Jim

...a quick Youtube search of 'SUP Paddle Technique'...  of the top 14: 8 were older than 3 years  ...3 - 2yrs  ...2 - 1yr ...and, the only recent one deserves a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWpMbf5tH7s

There seem to be (I have not watched yet) a number of decent instruction videos, so look at their whole list. 
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: Roundhouse on November 23, 2018, 08:08:28 AM
SUP is God's gift to older men and I assume women. I don't think SUP is going anywhere.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: Night Wing on November 23, 2018, 09:23:18 AM
Nightwing....some encouragement from South Padre

The Texas coastline is divided up into the Upper Coast, Middle Coast and Lower Coast. Where I sup surf, this is the Upper Coast. South Padre is considered the Lower Coast. The water color is clearer so you can see the bottom to determine how deep the water depth is. At South Padre one can foil, but generally speaking, not on the Upper Coast of Texas.

In the short video you posted, the guy is foiling, but he has to "pump his legs" to keep foiling. At my present age of 68, if I had to pump my legs for three of those rides, my energy would be "spent". I'd be done for the day totally worn out.

For "old codgers" like myself, we are mostly interested in (I'm assuming we are) the leisurely type of sup surfing. Shredding waves and/or pumping our legs, just saps our energy. Nose riding for us old codgers is about as adventurous as we get.

Since you posted a short video of a foiler, I'll post a nice short leisurely sup surfing video where I'm sure we will all recognize "supthecreek" (Rick) in his video below on his 10' Sunova longboard and which I ran across on YouTube. I also think he hasn't yet posted this video here on the Zone. I hope Rick forgives me for "stealing his thunder" so to speak, if he hasn't posted it here on the Zone.

BTW, the only thing I do different than Rick does in his video, I don't do his "dismounts" at the end of his rides in this video.  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRTTyc0BT7w
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: stoneaxe on November 23, 2018, 10:28:33 AM
I may try foiling some day but I'll never stop SUPping until I have too. Not dying...not even close...just not the new thing anymore.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: SaMoSUP on November 23, 2018, 11:07:31 AM
My desire to go down the foil path is partly driven by FOMO which I suspect is what drives the hype. But my foil budget just went to the Sunova Insane 8'5 below so guess am not that FOMO. Will post about it in another thread...


Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: exiled on November 23, 2018, 11:47:33 AM
Honestly, on any day where it is marginal, I foil. On nice days I Sup Surf. For some of the guys I know who do it all, I think Sup surfing was the fall back for marginal days and they would short board on the perfect days. For them, foiling is claiming their sup days.

As far as online presence goes, when it comes to SUP surfing, my quiver is pretty locked in, so the drive for new info has faded. There is a lot I have to figure out about foiling, and most people are doing the same, so that is where my attention is.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: supthecreek on November 23, 2018, 12:48:06 PM
I agree with exiled.... most SUP stuff has been discussed for years, where Foil is the new kid, and everyone is in the learning stage.

I owned a bar for 30 years.... every time a new bar opened in town, everyone would flock check out the fresh new spot.
They always came back when the shine left the newbie :)

Only a handful of foilers will ever get past the smooth "glide" stage IMO.... high degree of difficulty and risk.
Apologies to adopters, but I am already bored with foil videos, even the good guys.....but I never get bored with SUP vids.
I also have no desire to glide 500 yards, then paddle back out on a 7' board   ;D

I think I would enjoy the feeling of "flying".... but personally, surfing where my feet are connected to the water by a board, will never get old to me. I have loved surfing for 54 years and that flame has never dimmed.

I'd like to know what percentage of Zone Guests are here for Foiling vs SUP..... that would be a good indication of where new interest fall.

Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: PonoBill on November 23, 2018, 03:38:18 PM
I love foiling but I doubt it will really be a lot bigger than it is right now. Geezers, pros and rich kids are the only ones that can afford it. And then the first five times you try it you wish you were wrapped in bubble wrap with a full coverage helmet. Everything you know about surfing is wrong, and it's a bitch just to get up never mind head off in a straight line, don't even think about turning.

Watching the good guys do it is interesting for about ten minutes. It honestly looks pretty lame. Swooping back and forth. Yay!

I don't see it being a big threat. There's a temporary dip, because a lot of the better SUP surfers bailed to try it, and a lot of them won't be coming back, but wholesale replacement? I doubt it.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: exiled on November 23, 2018, 05:36:49 PM
I think there is still some more room for the market to grow as the price point for entry level foils trends down. I expect entry level foils around $500 to be common soon and that will bring more people in, but the degree of difficultly will keep the market small unless we see someone bring a really easy to use foil to market.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: PonoBill on November 23, 2018, 06:08:42 PM
^^That doesn't slice into your leg or knock out your teeth.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: exiled on November 23, 2018, 06:39:49 PM
Well yes, but I don't get the sense that we are seeing a ton of gruesome injuries from the current generation of foils.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: PonoBill on November 24, 2018, 12:40:54 AM
Not quite as wicked as thin kite foils, but still plenty of injuries. I'm limping around from getting whacked in the thigh two days ago. Tomoko is out of the water for a month with a sliced leg. Lots of stuff to hit, and while they aren't blade-sharp anymore, still unforgiving.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: JEG on November 25, 2018, 01:30:51 AM
Foiling, maybe oneday?
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: connector14 on November 25, 2018, 09:34:39 AM
I love SUP,  but I have zero interest in trying anything like foiling that might injure me and end my paddling days forever. Life is WAY TOO short.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: devon_sup_surf on November 25, 2018, 03:13:38 PM
I think one of the following criteria are required for sup foiling- and they are all pretty narrow/rare

experts who have mastered many other forms of watersport and just want to learn something new

those who see it as the best tool to use in certain conditions (either in crappy surf where they can link shirt wave period swell together and glide above the chop, or where it's busy and they can avoid surfers by riding unbroken waves far out back/ahead of surfers

Both the above is rare. Add the danger factor, the difficulty, the expense and extra hassle of transport I can't see it being a huge thing IMO.


I also think it's easy to confuse two largely independent occurrences

1) decrease in sup surf (if this is true)
2) increase in foil

I don't think the two are particularly related.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: surf4food on November 27, 2018, 07:59:08 AM
SUP surfing is in decline simply for the same reasons all other new sports eventually fall in popularity.  How far it will decline remains to be seen but I donít think itís going to go the way of rollerblading.  It will probably reach a comfortable medium and stay there.  As others have said in previous threads, the novelty of surfing with a paddle as worn off for some and theyíve returned to regular prone surfing.  Foil on the other hand has a VERY narrow scope and only the most athletically inclined will master it.  SUP surfing would likely see the decline itís going through with or without foiling.

Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: JEG on November 27, 2018, 03:49:20 PM
SUP surfing is in decline simply for the same reasons all other new sports eventually fall in popularity.  How far it will decline remains to be seen but I donít think itís going to go the way of rollerblading.  It will probably reach a comfortable medium and stay there.  As others have said in previous threads, the novelty of surfing with a paddle as worn off for some and theyíve returned to regular prone surfing.  Foil on the other hand has a VERY narrow scope and only the most athletically inclined will master it.  SUP surfing would likely see the decline itís going through with or without foiling.

it depends where you are in the world.
Were I'm at sup surfing is on the up.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: Zooport on November 27, 2018, 06:45:31 PM
SUP surfing is in decline simply for the same reasons all other new sports eventually fall in popularity.  How far it will decline remains to be seen but I don’t think it’s going to go the way of rollerblading.  It will probably reach a comfortable medium and stay there.  As others have said in previous threads, the novelty of surfing with a paddle as worn off for some and they’ve returned to regular prone surfing.  Foil on the other hand has a VERY narrow scope and only the most athletically inclined will master it.  SUP surfing would likely see the decline it’s going through with or without foiling.

it depends where you are in the world.
Were I'm at sup surfing is on the up.

Cool!  Where are you?
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: surf4food on November 27, 2018, 07:11:23 PM
SUP surfing is in decline simply for the same reasons all other new sports eventually fall in popularity.  How far it will decline remains to be seen but I donít think itís going to go the way of rollerblading.  It will probably reach a comfortable medium and stay there.  As others have said in previous threads, the novelty of surfing with a paddle as worn off for some and theyíve returned to regular prone surfing.  Foil on the other hand has a VERY narrow scope and only the most athletically inclined will master it.  SUP surfing would likely see the decline itís going through with or without foiling.

it depends where you are in the world.
Were I'm at sup surfing is on the up.

Cool!  Where are you?

San Diego.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: JimK on November 28, 2018, 09:37:34 AM
Surf SUP is definitely UP in SNJ I even see new faces in the cold as we head into winter here

JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: Tom on November 28, 2018, 10:12:22 AM
I see a decline in SUP surfing by those that were into SUPs only because they'd SUP when surf was small. A lot of the short boarders I know that use to SUP now ride Costco Wavestorms when its small.  In my area, the summer is when we have smaller surf and there are now a lot of very good surfers on Wavestorms.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: JEG on November 28, 2018, 12:51:36 PM
SUP surfing is in decline simply for the same reasons all other new sports eventually fall in popularity.  How far it will decline remains to be seen but I donít think itís going to go the way of rollerblading.  It will probably reach a comfortable medium and stay there.  As others have said in previous threads, the novelty of surfing with a paddle as worn off for some and theyíve returned to regular prone surfing.  Foil on the other hand has a VERY narrow scope and only the most athletically inclined will master it.  SUP surfing would likely see the decline itís going through with or without foiling.

it depends where you are in the world.
Were I'm at sup surfing is on the up.

Cool!  Where are you?

Australia mate  ;)
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: PonoBill on November 28, 2018, 04:47:03 PM
I see a decline in SUP surfing by those that were into SUPs only because they'd SUP when surf was small. A lot of the short boarders I know that use to SUP now ride Costco Wavestorms when its small.  In my area, the summer is when we have smaller surf and there are now a lot of very good surfers on Wavestorms.

It's a sick thing, but I love surfing Wavestorms.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: Zooport on November 28, 2018, 05:09:10 PM
Haven't seen any foiling here in North Carolina. 
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: JEG on November 29, 2018, 12:18:18 PM
one of this days I'll get one of those Wavestorms
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: Zooport on November 29, 2018, 02:45:12 PM
They are quite fun.  I have an 9'6 Wavestorm that I surf when the water is really crowded.  Gives me peace of mind knowing that I won't hurt someone badly if I hit them, so I relax and enjoy the surf more when its crowded. 
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: SlatchJim on November 30, 2018, 09:25:04 AM
SUP conversations and threads are dying and Foiling threads and conversations are taking its place.  I doubt that there are more than 5 places on the planet that will rent you a foil set up to learn on.  I know of zero.  That should keep the foil mystery mysterious.
Title: Re: Is regular SUP surfing dying and foiling taking its place?
Post by: stoneaxe on November 30, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
I'd like to try foiling....I think it could be great for my local...but I'll SUP as long as I can stand and hold a paddle.