Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: zacksc on October 12, 2018, 02:30:21 PM
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I am interested in getting a really good, kind of high-end paddle for SUP surfing. Someone steered me toward a quickblade V drive with like an 81 area. (I weight about 160 lbs.) Interestingly, they suggested that the V Drive Vector Net might be preferable to the V Drive All Carbon due to more flex. Also, any advice on whether an EVA grip is a good idea? And is an oval shaft preferable to a round shaft?
I also heard that ZRE makes really good paddles. Probably lots of other places too. What do you recommend for a high-end surf paddle?
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Any of those brand you mentioned are good. Just make sure you get the right flex shaft and blade size to your height to weight ratio? Best to ask the question direct to the brand you choose?
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Go with kenalu. Their parts interchangeability is awesome. You break quickblade blade you might as well toss it in the garbage. And I own 4 qb paddles. Their new shaft is too slippery too - they used to be better.
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Thanks. So like a Mana 82 or something? Do you like their ergo T handle? What about shaft?
Is that more of a race paddle or a surf paddle?
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The Mana and Konihi are designed for race but I know people that love them in the surf. I’ve used Ke Nalu since the first shipment hit the mainland and my preference for surf is the Wiki Elite 74 blade, xTuf S shaft and the Ergo T. With this combo you have an extremely lightweight paddle. You can swap out for an xTuf blade but for me the Elite holds up fine. If you’re in SoCal you can try mine.
I think EVA grips are a personal preference. I used to use oval shaft paddles mainly because the blades flutter and I needed it for control but it’s not an issue with Ke Nalu. I can almost paddle open palm and still get a good pull through the water. The texture on the shaft is great and I never get blisters but if you don’t like it you can sand it down with some very light grade sandpaper.
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The Konihi can be tough to handle in surf, especially for bracing--the side wings on the back of the blade catch the surface. Some people love it, I kind of got used to it, but I still don't like it. Great for downwind and racing though. The Mana has wings too, but they're shorter and more subtle, so I don't notice them, I use a Mana 90 to surf. The biggest advantage to the Mana is if I screw up the catch the Mana kind of self-corrects, whereas the Konihi just punishes you. Any of the original blades are fine for surfing, if your technique is good then the Wiki is great, if you tend to get a little sloppy when you're going for a wave then the Maliko is a better choice. The Molokai is a monster, the only person I know of that still uses it is Devin Blish--who probably weighs 120#. Go figure. She accelerates out of the hole like an F1 car, rarely misses a wave and blows my doors off downwinding, so I'm not giving her any paddle advice.
I think EVA or anything soft on a handle or shaft is a mistake. You wind up squeezing the grip, and that's the opposite of what you want to do. Relaxed hands is the goal.
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Check out 27North paddles. Absolute bomb proof surf paddles. I have had the Kevlar paddle for 4 years now and it still looks brand new. Comes with a lifetime warranty.
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Where are you located Zack. Not sure what opportunities you may have to demo but I think paddle preference is more personal than boards....especially once you start talking blade size and flex. Lots of good brands...not sure you go wrong with any of the better ones. I'm partial to Ke Nalu too but I have a bias since its all I've paddled since Pono and Lane started the Co. and haven't tried any others lately. As mentioned the interchangeability of the Ke Nalus is awesome.
Funny, I loved the Konihi for distance and race...but didn't like it for surf because of the catching and bracing issue.....but now it's all I use.....nothing braces better than the backside of a Konihi...like sticking it in cement. Once you learn to use it to advantage its great and I no longer catch the wings. I think we naturally get used to using what we have and problems can become features with time. I can't remember the last time I used my Maliko, been at least a year and I should give away my Molokai. Things change....it's all I used to use.
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Check out 27North paddles. Absolute bomb proof surf paddles. I have had the Kevlar paddle for 4 years now and it still looks brand new. Comes with a lifetime warranty.
+1. I snapped one of their Kevlar paddles and they replaced it straight up. Best warranty in the industry.
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I have destroyed 5 paddles since i started surfing in 3 years.
I have snapped clean in half 2 plastic ones and one v rubbish fibreglass one. Just by putting some real power behind them.
I have also broken one full carbon SIC (£££) and one Nash carbon fibreglass mix (£££)
The SIC snapped when it got caught between the fins of my board and the wave power torqued it in half. The naish got hit hard by the board and snapped. Both bad luck. I'm hard on gear.
I love the confidence a decent carbon paddle gives me in the water. It makes a huge difference. I will never surf without a carbon paddle if I can avoid it.
If I surf daily for a week- I get inflammation of my elbow. Carbon is tough on the joints.
Surfing is tough on kit. I wouldn't want to surf with a £400 paddle. Not when a £150 will work just as well.
Carbon is tough on joints. Flex helps a paddle. Use a shaft with at least medium flex. More may well be better here.
I now use a Gong paddle. For £150 it's fine.
I would buy the warranty Kevlar paddle if I could but I'm UK so not an option.
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I'm using a Chinook Thrust (v-drive imitation) 92 all carbon for surf. This is my first paddle with an oval shaft and I love the self positioning feature for quickly and automatically (85% of the time) getting the paddle in the right orientation. I will buy a Chinook Thrust (v-drive imitation) 82 3 piece travel paddle for a trip to Maui in late Nov and will see if I like the smaller paddle area for quicker strokes. Don't really know much about shaft stiffness for surfing but trying to learn more. I am guessing the oval carbon shaft in above paddle is quite stiff.
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I used a Ke Nalu Xtuf(s) shaft with the adjustable Ergo T handle off & on for 6 years, from the learning stages to the intermediate stage in the surf. Started with a Maliko blade, went down to a Ho'ola 84.
I used Werners extensively throughout my paddling career, but always went back to the Ke Nalu for surfing because of the flexy shaft, smaller blade, & adjustable handle.
Lost the Ke Nalu a couple weeks ago (sh*t happens) & impulsively ordered a Werner Rip Stick 79 w/ their new leverlok adjustable system. The Werner shaft used to be too stiff, but apparently they've softened this one up. Hopefully it's good.
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I'll throw my 2 cents in - I've tried both the 27N paddles and the KeNalu, as well as what I'm paddling now - a Hippostick Al Pro 8.0.
Paddles are very individualized, so if you can't demo one, I'd look at the features you are interested in. I'll add in I've broken 2 paddles before the KeNalu and Hippostick, no issues with either of those.
KeNalu is great because of the modularity, the downside being that I've had handles that eventually leak/move. It's not a huge deal, you just re-glue, and it could just be me not gluing properly. Case in point with modularity, I started with a bigger blade (95 sq in), when I moved down to in blade size, I bought an extended handle and re-purposed it for my race/distance paddle.
27N is rock solid, nice guys, and I really liked how the paddle performed, but that Kevlar comes at the cost of weight. KeNalu/Hippostick will be in the 14-15oz range mostly, 27N is 20oz.
Hippostick is my primary surf paddle right now, mainly because when I tried several paddles back to back (QB, my Kenalu at the time, and one other against the Hippo) I liked the Hippo better.
The main things to look at beyond that is blade size, I'm in the mid 80's at 78kg/170 lbs. and length obviously - I'm even with my head, and I'm 6'0".
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We sell alot of different(QB, Kialoa, Chinook ect...) Paddles and they are all good BUT...
NO ONE HAS EVER COMPLAINED ABOUT A KENALU PADDLE.
It is that simple
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
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Not sure if you have a Blackfish paddle dealer in you area. They have a full carbon 1 piece Nootka coming for 2019 for $399 CAD
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Update - got the Werner Rip Stick 79 and had it out for a 2-hr session. Definitely works for me & checks all my boxes - shaft has good flex & coupled with the small blade, felt easy on my shoulders. No lack of power for me at only 165 lbs.
The leverlock adjustable with t-grip is nice, too, allowing for adjustability on the fly (unlike the hot glue I'd gotten used to). I cut the shaft so that it starts at head high & adjusts 8" up from there. Obviously the leverlock system adds some weight to the equation, but I like being able to adjust 1-3" between boards, etc.
The paddle weighs 20.3 oz., with the leverlock accounting for 6.75 oz of that total. Not in the super duper ultralight category, but I'm fine with it for surfing as I don't do distance touring or racing at all these days.
If I ever dial it in for one specific board, I can always order a carbon handle and glue it in, too. That would cut the weight substantially. So if you get the one-piece, it will be in the ultralight category.
Solid option in the low $300 range. I don't paddle surf that often these days so I didn't feel like dropping $400+ on a Black Project or new Ke Nalu.
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Thanks everybody. I just got back to this, sorry about the delay. I am actually thinking about the hippostick blur at this point. 82 sq inches, I believe, designed for surfing. Anybody have any thoughts on the Blur Pro? Is the shaft flexy? I would like a flexible shaft to diminish shoulder strain.
Also, here is a weird thing. I am 5'10.5", that is, 70.5" tall, and my current paddle, which feels right to me, is 79.5". (I actually dialed in on this length using a Kialoa with an adjustable T-top.) Is that crazy that my preferred paddle length is so long? Maybe I need to revisit that? (I want to be sure before I spend $400.)
PS. I ride a pretty long board, 10' infinity new deal.
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My surf paddle(s) are 4" over my head. My distance / racing paddle is 14" over my head. Pretty much set that way for over 5 years now. I've gone shorter (chin high) with my surf paddle but it caused back pain and felt awkward. I gave it a few months before I realized it wasn't better for me to go that short.
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Thanks everybody. I just got back to this, sorry about the delay. I am actually thinking about the hippostick blur at this point. 82 sq inches, I believe, designed for surfing. Anybody have any thoughts on the Blur Pro? Is the shaft flexy? I would like a flexible shaft to diminish shoulder strain.
Also, here is a weird thing. I am 5'10.5", that is, 70.5" tall, and my current paddle, which feels right to me, is 79.5". (I actually dialed in on this length using a Kialoa with an adjustable T-top.) Is that crazy that my preferred paddle length is so long? Maybe I need to revisit that? (I want to be sure before I spend $400.)
PS. I ride a pretty long board, 10' infinity new deal.
Yeah, you definitely need to try a shorter paddle. I'm around head high on my paddle and 6' tall. A longer paddle doesn't allow you to bend your knees properly and to get low on a wave, and it throws your stance off. Have someone film you if possible.
I'll agree with TallDude, I went down too short (for me around nose or so) and it caused a bit of back pain. Head high seems to be the sweet spot (although I could probably go down another inch).
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Thanks APPST. I realize you are correct. My problem is I want to get a lighter paddle now, and I am not what length to get exactly. (Like how much shorter to go.) With a Ke Nalu, can I change the length every week by unglueing and cutting until it seems right? Is that a realistic thing to do?
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If you get the extended handle you cut just once....if you cut the shaft so that it's head high with the handle all the way in all you need to do is heat it and adjust until you find what you like. The extended handle allows for 10" of adjustment...more than enough for most needs.
If you don't get the extended handle then you start long and take off small amounts until you find what you like....not as simple and there is a risk of going too short....but if you do then you buy an extended handle.... :)
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Thanks a lot Stoneaxe. This is really helpful!!! I replied on the other post.
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I ended up getting a Ke Nalu and I have to say it is an awesome paddle. Much much better that anything I have used in the past. Not to name names, but I have had a lot of paddles. Originally I was thinking that I would not get a Ke Nalu, because I did not want to mess with hot glue. Then a few people mentioned how great Ke Nalu paddles are. I am glad I took the plunge. The feel of the blade is beyond awesome. (Manu 82 sq inch). The xTuf shaft feels just right to me. Not too flexible at all and I glad I did not get the xTufS, which is stiffer. The handle is nice. The overall feel of the paddle is really beyond what I thought possible. I felt like I was surfing a smaller board than I actually was, because the paddle just makes everything feel nimble and responsive.
I really appreciate all the people who pushed me toward Ke Nalu. I feel pretty confident that it is a lot better than the V-drive or really any other paddle, including the hippostick. Learning how to hot glue is totally worth it.
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Update - got the Werner Rip Stick 79 and had it out for a 2-hr session. Definitely works for me & checks all my boxes - shaft has good flex & coupled with the small blade, felt easy on my shoulders. No lack of power for me at only 165 lbs.
The leverlock adjustable with t-grip is nice, too, allowing for adjustability on the fly (unlike the hot glue I'd gotten used to). I cut the shaft so that it starts at head high & adjusts 8" up from there. Obviously the leverlock system adds some weight to the equation, but I like being able to adjust 1-3" between boards, etc.
The paddle weighs 20.3 oz., with the leverlock accounting for 6.75 oz of that total. Not in the super duper ultralight category, but I'm fine with it for surfing as I don't do distance touring or racing at all these days.
If I ever dial it in for one specific board, I can always order a carbon handle and glue it in, too. That would cut the weight substantially. So if you get the one-piece, it will be in the ultralight category.
Solid option in the low $300 range. I don't paddle surf that often these days so I didn't feel like dropping $400+ on a Black Project or new Ke Nalu.
I just received my Rip Stick 79 1-piece with the smaller shaft, I went with 73" in length (1" OH) just to make sure I wasn't going too short with the smaller blade. I'll post a more complete review later (when we get surf this weekend), but I took it out on flatwater yesterday afternoon along with my normal Hippostick surf paddle and compared back and forth.
It's pretty interesting the contrast, the thing that stood out the most was that the smaller shaft felt lighter and more agile in my hands. The downside is the handle is a bit too small, it would be nice to have a normal handle with a smaller shaft. It's definitely faster in/out for high cadence, which is what I wanted. I also felt like I was getting a nice solid catch and smooth in/out with it. I simulated some quick starts as if catching a wave, and it's preferable to my Hippostick. Going back to the Hippostick felt like swinging an axe compared to the smaller blade (89 sq. in Hippostick to 79 sq in. Rip Stick).
So, all in all, I'm initially pleased, it's basically like changing gears, and I think in the long run it will help with surfing and my shoulder pain.
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I just picked up a Quickblade V drive 91 last week at their sample blem sale. Man what a difference versus the generic adjustable paddle that i had. They custom sized it for my height. It has the oval tapered shaft with some extra grippiness on the shaft. Not sure what they did but feels like scales or something that makes it easy to hold on to and not slip. the paddle design with the scoop seems to work better too and the size/weight helps my cadence. Really happy with my decision to upgrade my paddle.
Jim is a really good guy too, he showed me around the shop. If you are in the area, you should check them out.