Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Technique => Topic started by: WhatsSUP on September 25, 2018, 02:20:08 PM
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Two of what I expect will be a total of 4 videos:
Video "PART I: First Steps……."
The first 4 clips reveal some my earliest attempts at cross-stepping forward…..the last 2 clips show a couple of the first attempts at backing up. SUP skill level at the beginning of this year was probably about Novice (ability to paddle and catch waves & initiate turns left or right and ride down the line….nothing fancy.
I made numerous observations from these as well as other clips not displayed during this timeframe. Most notably, a delay or hesitation in starting forward, and straying too far from the centerline.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ti55wMDJsk
Video PART II: Up and Back……
In this video, I start to combine cross-stepping forward with attempts to walk back and try to recover. Still having a fair number of waves pass underneath during this timeframe. And although still a full cross-step and a half from the tip of the board I am starting to become a bit more proficient at moving up and back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTo_quPtDPk
Looking Ahead:
I’ve already started to collect footage that I would consider consistent with a next level of progression - what will become my “Part III: Putting it Altogether” video which I’ll likely post in the month or so. I ultimately envision a final Part IV video (timeframe TBD) to capture some true nose-riding - gonna take a bunch more hours and sessions but I can sense that its not terribly far in the future….quite exciting!
Closing Comment:
Its been fun to gather and watch, rewatch, and rewatch again all the video I’ve amassed this year - and I only save a few rides from each session and delete the rest. And yeah, it can be a bit of a time sync, but on rainy and/or surf less day its pretty fun. One thing for certain, the Soloshot 3 has given me a great tool to carefully analyze rides in super slow motion in order to try and figure things out - not to mention document progress over time.
Hoping this might inspire others to post technique and other vids!!!!!!!!
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Whatz^.... really enjoyed watching your progress!
You have become a surfer in the past 6 months.... retirement suits you! ;D
Pretty cool to be able to see the small things that show up with the SoloShot 65.....
my old beach cams were grainy and too distant,
this camera is a great self help tool ;)
You have fast feet, so you will have this wired soon :)
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Very nice!
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Whats, nice progression. You're off balance while your stepping forward, you look more comfortable going backward. That's because your first step backward is short, and it's easier to keep your weight over the middle of the board.
If you make your first step forwards by pulling your front foot back, you'll both stall the board a little and make your first step forward a short one, which is easy to keep balance.
In your first videos, you're taking long steps and they're hurried. Now you're taking shorter ones, but they're still a little too long and a little too fast. Try sliding that front foot back before you take your first step, and while you're sliding it, make sure it's right across the stringer. Bend your knees a little more and keep your weight evenly on your heels and toes. If you can't quite get your weight even, then weight your toes to keep the rail pressed down.
Lots of things to remember, but once you have them in muscle memory you'll have it for keeps. Watch a few of wingnut's videos. He's the king of smooth cross stepping.
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That was fun...nice work.
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Great work man.
You made me think, I suspect that crossstepping with a paddle is harder than without. When I do it on a longboard my arms are up high and spread for balance. I’ll bet both hands on the paddle is harder like people describe from foiling.
One note. It looks like you are pretty far back in general for that sort of a wave. You could probably step to the front of the pad and ride those waves without stepping back at all. I always ride soft waves with my feet around or forward of the handle.
That said, I also have trouble getting on the tail to turn so there’s that. ;)
Keep it up, I’m jealous of your progression!
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WZ, have you found the accelerator on your B&B yet? That board is magic in the right conditions.
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Thanks all for the comments and suggestions!!
Pono and SurfC: Very much appreciate the observations/comments. They are duly noted and I'll try to to put them into practice!
Bean: "Accelerator"?.....I think so - I definitely sense that the board speeds up as I move forward. Do tell if there's some secret sauce that I need to try to release! ;D
On another note, I was describing my East Coast (RI) surf location to Jimmy's son, Marlon, at the time of my B&B purchase and he reco'd the flat nose model vice the concave nose. I know the concave is supposed to provide a bit more lift and he could put his hands on one very easily and quickly but we both decided to wait for production of a flat nose, which I ended up with...and extremely happy with. I suspect I'm still at a level of not being able to tell the difference if I had both but I do think about how one performs as compared to the other(????) Anyone with firsthand knowledge?
8) 8) 8)
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Thanks all for the comments and suggestions!!
Pono and SurfC: Very much appreciate the observations/comments. They are duly noted and I'll try to to put them into practice!
Bean: "Accelerator"?.....I think so - I definitely sense that the board speeds up as I move forward. Do tell if there's some secret sauce that I need to try to release! ;D
On another note, I was describing my East Coast (RI) surf location to Jimmy's son, Marlon, at the time of my B&B purchase and he reco'd the flat nose model vice the concave nose. I know the concave is supposed to provide a bit more lift and he could put his hands on one very easily and quickly but we both decided to wait for production of a flat nose, which I ended up with...and extremely happy with. I suspect I'm still at a level of not being able to tell the difference if I had both but I do think about how one performs as compared to the other(????) Anyone with firsthand knowledge?
8) 8) 8)
Yes, I had a similar conversation with Jimmy at the surf expo a couple years ago. He also thought that the flat nose would be better for my NJ beach breaks. But, I'm still stoked on my 9'6" x 28" with the concave nose!
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I miss my Stewart 9'6" longboard, though my neck and back don't miss surfing it. It had a deep concave in the nose and some V in the tail and even a faker like me could sort of nose ride it. Or at least ten on the logo. Some tweeker sliced the straps in Lahina and probably got fifty bucks for it. Love those guys.
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Ouch Bill, I still have a Stewart 9'6" (Tipster) - it behaves a lot like my 9'6" JL B&B Machine.
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If you make your first step forwards by pulling your front foot back, you'll both stall the board a little and make your first step forward a short one, which is easy to keep balance.
The stall was the key for me. It was always hard to take the first step forward. It's subtle and doesn't need to be a step as you get better, but it's there. Watch the first guy in this vid - drops the back knee to add weight/stall and then goes forward
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8o9Aunf6SY
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Whatsup, so nice peaceful and stoking video.
Now that you have the nose more under control it’s time to get to the tail. Then your nose riding will advance more.
You are catching the wave from the middle of the board, turning from the middle and then stepping up.
If the takeoff is into the steep part of the wave you’ll be pointed down the line and can move straight to the nose.
When you are in the wave early, like most of the waves in the vid, being in the middle of the board is fine. Head straight in for a moment, build a little speed, then take a step back and turn not so gentle to get the whole board going down the line.
You’ll lose a touch of speed in the turn, like a little stall, this is when you walk back up the board past the middle towards the nose to trim and accelerate.
Nose riding is back and forth from nose to tail to nose.
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whatsup: glad to see that you're keeping the noseriding flame alive. i have had one successful noseride in my life and fortunately it was caught on film. i post a link to it every time i can, ha ha, but this time i'm going to resist
in any event, for it to be truly noseriding, i subscribe to the thought school that says you've got to have toes over for it to count. i've had numerous discussions about this was jimmy lewis and we're both agreed that 5 or 10, cheater on the 5 or not, is what cha gotta do. the sensation is entirely different than the one you get riding 2/3 of the way forward.
this is not to take away from your accomplishments, which are great and fluid. and lord knows it took me years to get that first complete step down. but if you're happy with it as is, the next step, imho, is to take another step and try for five. it drove me batty trying to get it right. i had all kinds of gorilla tape stuck on my board here and there to help me figure out where my feet were supposed to go. some days i'd look down and see that my big toe was but 2" from the nose and i'd curse at myself over and over for my failure to get those last couple of inches.
have you been to the gong sup site's forum to look at what patrice has to say about supping from the nose? he was incredibly helpful to me with my efforts. and i know he's got a short instructional video up that looks great but he's speaking french so i'm missing that. if you speak fr, perhaps you could write up a translation and post it in the forum and send it to me.
also see: http://alohaki.jugem.jp/ the author here, ramrod, and i have had many exchanges over the years and he's been very helpful too. his blog seems to be mostly short board stuff now but if you head back in time you'll find some great posts about noseriding and the physics of it and so on.
good luck out there, and i wish i could be joining you!
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Bean.....had a little birdie tell me that Jimmy prefers the flat nose model even where he surfs.... but whatever I know they're equally amazing boards. And I'm told told yellow is faster than blue! ;D ;D ;D
Thanks Digger...good advice - can't tell you how many times I've watch that vid - and nice to see youngsters carrying on.
Surfin-J : I've read your this comment half a dozen times (and will likely continue another dozen)....For relative few words I know there's a TON of information there!!!
Erik: So glad you jumped in! I watched your 5-over video several times today (probably several dozen since I first saw it) and I have an appreciation for how important I think it is to you! Its an inspiration for me for sure! Lot's of time and energy to get to that point - you should be proud!!! And I'm with ya....I'm just starting to scratch the itch on cross-stepping/nose-riding. I can taste the front end if the B&B and will not stop until I'm camped out as stylishly-styling with toes over on a fairly consistent basis. I'm progressing, which is the important thing, but more importantly I'm just having fun trying to work/figure out the nuances - I'm only half way there or so with cross-stepping at the point of video #2....#3 will be better! I've been to that website before and its very good - time for a refresh. Best!!!!!
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Jimmy is one hell of a noserider, in fact, it's what he does with 99 percent of the waves he catches. I've known him a long time--probably getting on 20 years--and I don't remember any flat nosed boards. But he changes them up fairly often, I might be out of date.
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Here is a picture of us discussing the B&B a couple years ago. Those who say you should never meet your hero's have never met Jimmy Lewis. ;D
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Bean, nice! I can't say enough about the service I got from Marlon....top notch!
As a side, had a fun 3-hours session with Mr. Big today....lots of hoots and hollers from the small mix of pruners and the two of us geezers. ;D Great longboard day with lots of super fun rides by all!!!!! Was still fairly breezy at the end of the session when we decided to ride one in. Got to my truck and put the ol' B&B up in the rack like I've done a ton of times this year....than, WHA-BAM...wind launched the SOB and send her crashing to the parking lot pavement one spot over. Fortunately, the spot next to me was vacant!!! Big saw the whole thing which happened stupid fast! Inspected her and said I wanted to vomit about 10x's and put her back up and drove her right to the local shop. I'm gonna be B&B-less for about two weeks - oh well, could have been wayyyyyyy worse....could have smacked a person, car, etc. LESSON LEARNED: put the board up and maintain control at all times until securely tied down! Son of a beee-ach-oo!
Well, back to the Creek for the weekend....which is not a bad thing!!!!
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Yesterday was head+, today small and clean. Fun with tip time boy! We discussed the stall as the move that puts you in the right spot.
Was horrified when I saw in slow motion a beautiful yellow JL get picked up spun like a top
and hit the ground hard.
A pic from yesterday is attached. Maybe..
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Fun session... windy for sure, but some nice sets!
I caught the tail end of MrBig's last wave...
sorry biggie, my camera was off when you caught that wave.... but its shows the conditions.
Nice aerial Whatz^ ;)
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That’s brutal WZ, hope you get ‘er fixed up quick!
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All good...2 weeks and I'l have her back. Remaining quiver contains a couple of other very viable wave riding options between now and then (to include my 9'4" Creek)! 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Recently posted......the move at min 2:22 is soooo awesome! Love it!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhMAyov9PIA
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been there WS--rack can be a launchpad for the next gust
actually drove off years ago with my 9'6" widepoint unstrapped on the roof in a thin, crappy daybag, fins attached
i was going around 20 when it launched onto the road--no other car complications, in my case also, thk God
upshot that the board was totally fine.... go figure--obvi the fins didnt hit--but the hrs sure did, and the board was fine
lemonade from your lemons is that the board didnt fill with water--youll have it back soon, without a 6 week dryout period!
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What's -- spending time in Hood River means occasionally dodging the flying boards from the newbs--not meaning newbies at whatever board sport, but newbs at dealing with Hood River parking lot winds. Likewise, Maliko runs and Southshore Maui downwinders--lots of times it takes three people to get a board on and off a car for a southside run. Seriously.
The whole "rope instead of straps" thing is to prevent exactly what you just experienced. Next time you see Stoneaxe ask him to show you how quick and easy it is to get a rope across the tail and eliminate the possibility of a launched board. I load my 17 foot downwind board on the super-high rack of my F350 by myself almost every day in the spring and summer, in 25kt gusts in the Hood River Event Center, with no drama. And my torn up shoulders make me very clumsy at it. If I was doing that with straps I'd be replacing my board weekly.
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Its been a GREAT weekend on many fronts.....
Late week started with the bow hunt harvest of a nice 9-pt buck. Spent Friday night and a good bit of Saturday butchering meat cuts....tenderloins, backstraps/chops, steaks, and stew meat. Thank you Lord......my family and I will thoroughly enjoy this bountiful harvest!
Then yesterday morning it was back to nose-ride practice. My progression continues and I'm getting more and more consistent and stable with moving up and back. I'm now able to start/stall move up a step, then back a step followed by several steps up to the nose at will if I desire - kinda like a dance move. I've shortened my crossteps a bit as suggested here and its made a distance. I planted my forward foot on several rides yesterday and then squeaked it forward another coupe of inches within 2"'s of the very tip. I sense no barriers at this point to get my toes another 2"'s or so over the front. I did it yesterday on a couple of waves but pearled the board so I can't count it as a full on toes over ride. Its just gonna take a bit more practice.....I think I need to crouch my body a little lower extend my whole leg bit. Of course every wave is different so its just gonna take a bit more time. I also really like to ride backside in an exaggerated crosstep if that makes sense....posted a pic. I feel VERY stable and can trim and turn a bit - fun. I continue to gather video clips for my ultimate #3 video. Release date TBD. :)
Then to top off the weekend my niece delivered a healthy baby boy last night so we made the short 3 mile drive to the Newport hospital and made a quick visit. Very Cool!
Life is good!!!! Stoked!
Hope everyone had a good weekend as well!!!!!
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60's style'n there Todd!
Looking good!
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Thanks Creeker! As a product of the 60's (born in 1961) I take that as a compliment! ::) ;D
8) 8) 8)
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Wow. I've seen of SUP fishing, but SUP bow-hunting is a new one. It must take a lot of liters to get that buck back home!
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Wow. I've seen of SUP fishing, but SUP bow-hunting is a new one. It must take a lot of liters to get that buck back home!
;D ;D ;D
I can tell you it takes a good number pints (as in beers) to cut, pack, and wrap!
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I remember not too long ago when Zane Schweitzer paddled BACk from Molokai (no one does that) with a boned out deer in bags on his board. Totally insane for half a dozen reasons, but that's Zane.
Of course, he could have shot a dozen deer here on Maui with the same amount of effort (no limits on deer on Maui, if you shot a hundred they'd pin a medal on you). but that wouldn't have made all of us crazy.
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Hey all....quick update FWIW....
I've been steadfast in my quest and continue to make progress although in smaller bits these days.....still VERY happy. I'm not sure why I just VERY recently noticed I've got my JL B&B fin placed about half way back in the fin box. Biggie suggested I push it all the way back and try that..... HOLY HELL!!! What a difference! I went out yesterday for a few hours in some small stuff and it was quite challenging....the board was considerably more difficult to turn than its been with the fin located mid-box. The new placement resulted in something (to me) as akin to catching an edge on skis where the ski tracks one way and you another resulting in the stumble and bumble and attempt to recover.
REALLY curious to thoughts as to fin placement....for now I'm gonna leave the fin all the way back and try to work through the recent challenges. The one thing I worked on yesterday was the one back step (cross step) towards the tail (I think TallDude referred to it recently as the Telemark cross country ski move). I was quite pleased with my ability to pretty quickly pick that up and be able to initiate a turn.....it was only after I was angled down the line that I was having some difficulty ("catching an edge") and wiping out more times than recovering.
As always, super open to thoughts/suggestions!!
8) 8) 8)
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Hi Todd
It's all about where you place your feet on the board.
The fin forward makes it easier to turn for sure, but won't work as well in your quest for the nose.
Big fin, back in the box requires proper technique, but will snap around quite nicely.
Foot moved abruptly near the tail, on the "turn side" rail, will snap the board around sweet as...
Swap rail sides to "S" turn...
then run back to the nose and enjoy the control of the big fin, back in the box ;D
Here's a old quickie vid I did of how loose a big stiff fin can be, when combined with proper technique:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVb7i2-wenk
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Thanks Rick!!!
LOVE LOVE LOVE the vid!!! WOW.....you wheel that board around left and right/to and fro, without any challenge whatsoever!!!! Jeeeeez Loouuu-ise! - reminds me of my slalom skiing days!
The Stiffy seems pretty close to my 11" B&B fin - that I just pushed all the back.....I'm a creature of habit and don't like to mix things up much/too fast. I'm inclined to stick with my B&B fin pushed all the way back and adapt, but over time if the experts feel given my skill set I'd be better suited to switch things up I'd be open....
Thank you! Very insightful!!!!
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Hello WhatSup!
I own your fin, the 11” Jimmy Lewis Pivot, although mine is the earlier version of it
that I got when I purchased my B&B (with the concave nose).
I note that Linter owned both and said he felt the newer version, I think it is the one you own,
was the best for noseriding, I think of all the fins he tried. (Actually, I think yours is a bit
more swept than mine is).
I also own the 10.5” Naish Nalu SUP fin that Creek owns (and surf so well), except
mine is ash wood veneer with translucent fiberglass outline trim. (Also, it had a nub
on the bottom that I sawed off to make it seat better.)
The Jimmy Lewis is a Pivot which means you are much more likely to make pivot turns with it.
With the Naish you are more likely to make more drawn out carving turns (although it can still
be pivoted but not nearly as easily - you have to get way back). - it has a much more swept profile.
It is probable that trying to carve a turn using a pivot fin (way back) is why you were catching an edge.
Like Creek indicates, you want to get further back to initiate your turn, and I think hold the board flatter
rather than leaning/tilting so much to turn.
You should be able to noseride well with either style fin but a pivot should let you set up
the noseride more efficiently.
Generally, while you can turn a bit easier with the fin further forward, you should be able to noseride
better with the fin further back - get further forward on the nose. As noseriding is your goal, probably
best to keep the fin all the way in the back of the box, as you said.
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Subber, great explanation of the differences between fin styles, thank you, I learned from that!
Funny, I was never a student of fins, I just surf and figure out what I need to do to make a board/fin work.
Example: I know I prefer a thruster set-up to quads.... but never bothered to wonder why ;D
Yeah... I realize I should know these things...
I have all the "fin design explanations" pictures saved somewhere....
I tried to study them and grasp all the concepts...
but it felt too much like homework, so I went surfing ;D ;D
Some student of design mechanics said I am a "rail surfer" and fins are less important to me..... so I'm going with that!
Listen to these guys Todd.... don't be like creek!
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Subber: Exactly the type of information I was hoping to read....very much appreciated! When I started this endeavor never did I think my quest for the nose would require/include a quest for the tail as well! Love the Zone!!!! As mentioned, on my last outing a coupe of days ago I picked up the "cross step back" after catching the wave pretty quickly.....I'll have to experiment with that a bit more to see if one big cross step back gets me to "pivot" land...I don't think it will but know I'll have fun next time out experimenting how to get further back if needed.
Yes, I do have the newer honeycomb fin that my B&B (flatnose) came with. I remember talking with Erick (Linter) about this fin summer before last. Hoping he'll chime in here with any of his thoughts/insights.
Creek: Thank you as well....you know me....always asking questions! ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Thanks guys.
Here is a short vid of Linter doing a pivot turn - the first turn he does is the most pivoty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=MIgQ5QGPED8
I was reading some of his comments on that fin - it has a thicker foil than the original one
than I have. I guess the thicker foil helps hold the board in which helps hold the tail down.
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I've heard that too, but I believe what primarily holds the tail down are the 50/50 rails that continue back into the tail. That's a design hallmark of a classic noserider.
In general, 50/50 (or soft) rails allow the water to wrap around the board but it also slows the board down, while more downturned (or hard) rails allow the water to release for speed.
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Yeah, I agree with that Bean.
This was different fins on the same B&B
(which does noseride somewhat better than my Laird which
has sharper rails near the tail).
Of course, the board is the more important as you detailed,
but the fin can also make some difference. I would add it also
probably depends upon the particular waves....- LOL, and most of
all the particular surfer.
I've got a boat load of fins and some are definitely better than others
for getting toes over on the B&B...but, I think I still do not have the
exact technique down, otherwise I should be able to do it much more often,
and even with other fins.
You've got a B&B. With the fins that I've had the best luck with,
sometimes the nose shoots way up in the air....but I've not been
paying attention enough to run up there when it does that (cause
its so crowded where I surf)....I think that maybe a golden opportunity
for toes over. I just don't know and haven't proved it yet.
Have you experienced that where the nose shoots up in the air...tail just
get buried? (that suction like that never happens on my Laird)
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Nothing that extreme but keep in mind, there is a ton of tail rocker on the B&B.
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Yeah you are right on the tail rocker -
much more than the Laird has.
I actually wish it had a tad less tail rocker.
I think that would make it paddle a bit faster.
But then it might not turn so easily.
I was really surprised how well this board
turns and handles. It works for me in all but very
fast waves.
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Yes, but the rocker also helps keep the tail down. Have you noticed how fast your B&B accelerated when you step up past the mid point?
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Yes, the rocker holds the tail down (along with the 50/50 rails).
I've read about its speed picking up when you move forward but
I've not really noticed that acceleration that much, maybe because
overall it is slower than my other boards.
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Yes, my Stylemaster is way faster but the B&B will stay in the pocket (except when it's breaking really fast).
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Great thread - I've had the 10'1" JL B&B (Concave Nose) for 4 years now, favorite board in my quiver, always have fun on it.
I'll be honest I really haven't messed with the fin placement too much, at least to compare directly (changing during a single session), but I'm going to play with it next time we have some nice LB waves. If I can ever get my Soloshot to record longer than a single 4 GB block of video, I'll throw some videos up, my main struggle right now is backside cross-stepping, for some reason the first step always feels pretty awkard.
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A-Paddle: Would LOVE to see some of your video when the time comes!
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These seem to be popular nose riding fins for the younger DoHo crew. https://www.surffcs.com/products/fcs-ii-fatboy-pg-longboard-fin Partly because their newer boards have fin boxes.
Most the older nose riding longboarder's ride their pig's with a big ass glassed in 'D' fin.
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It's a fun fin. Miki D. did it first..
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I've also have a 10" Fatboy fin.
It works well, but generally my favorites on the B&B
are D-Fins or other large surface fins.
People think the D-Fins are hard to turn and that probably
is true with boards from the 1960's but the B&B turns
very easily with a D-fin in it - I think from the extreme
tail rocker (among other things) that it has as Bean alluded to.
And, their huge surface area give lots of stability.
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I had a Midget Farrelly G & S stringerless with this fin! Awesome back in the day!
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I've been riding my old Laird 10 x 28.5 with the stock small center fin (5.5?) and a couple of tiny sidebites, which makes for great turning and speed but some perilous times after cross-stepping up on that wide nose (Laird may be able to spin and survive, but I sure can't, at least not on purpose).
After a glorious chest-high, lined-up, soft day out back, only person as far as I could see, I decided I really wanted to get serious about riding the nose.
So I took off the sidebites and stuck in an old Rainbow 9-inch, which was fun but not quite there. So just ordered the Joel Tudor 10-inch no-flex blocky-looking noserider fin, and can't wait to see if it'll turn me into Joel Tudor. Will report back.
I do know, however, that 10-feet and surfy is a magic spot in the world of SUP.
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The best fin I ever found for noseriding was the monster dolphin fin Jimmy Lewis stuck on the old 11er. My memory says it was 16 inches tall, but that can't be right. I know it stayed in the water when I got to the nose of that board, no matter what.
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The best fin I ever found for noseriding was the monster dolphin fin Jimmy Lewis stuck on the old 11er. My memory says it was 16 inches tall, but that can't be right. I know it stayed in the water when I got to the nose of that board, no matter what.
Recently seen a hatchet fin based on the original weber fin. I think it was 18"
and massive. With your size Pono, I wouldn't rule out that 16", he would probably put
you on that hatchet if he had it ;D
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Actually, it was the fin that came with the production 11er, so he was putting everyone on that fin. For a year or so that was pretty much the best selling SUP board, simply because anyone could stand on it and catch waves. In the early days that was a very big deal. The number of people who could stand on a Ku Nalu/Starboard 12'2" long enough to catch a wave was very small.
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January was a good month with numerous outings. Yesterday (2/3) was the first outing of this month and an unexpected clean surprise. Mr. Big joined me on what turned out to be just shy of a 3-hour session. I've got a good amount of footage now to sift thru in preparation of my next video and perhaps final video (#3 of 3) per my initial post in this thread. Its taken me a good year of dedicated trial and error and LOTS of discussion (most w/ Zoners here) to try and figure the whole cross-step and nose ride thing out and I'm thankful to all (including the SS3), which has helped me tremendously.
Here's a couple of snapshots from yesterday's small wave session. Even snuck in a few Quasi-Quasimoto rides yesterday. 8) 8) 8)
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congrats whatsSup
now what, tho? after an accomplishment like this............
you and biggie seem to be a good team
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The best fin I ever found for noseriding was the monster dolphin fin Jimmy Lewis stuck on the old 11er. My memory says it was 16 inches tall, but that can't be right. I know it stayed in the water when I got to the nose of that board, no matter what.
I think they were 13”. I have three of them hidden away somewhere, so I should check. They are great for when you need an extreme solution. Many JL boards came standardly with a 11” “noserider” fin, back in the day, so those are actually the most common. Even the 11” is big by today’s standards. I don’t think there ever been another fin quite like the 13” one though - it was nicknamed the “Great White”. If you downwind in super-confused and super-strong downwind conditions, it can be quite useful, especially when you are starting out DWing.
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congrats whatsSup
now what, tho? after an accomplishment like this............
you and biggie seem to be a good team
Oh my.....long list Eastie! Hang 10's, backwards nose-rides, that 360 board slide/move, create some whacky new poses............Many years of stuff to try to learn!!!!!
8) 8) 8) ::) ::) ::)
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Good stuff Whatz^^^.... looking nosy in the one shot!
Stoked for your next vid!
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Part 3: Walk on Water .....
Progress slowly continues on the quest for cross stepping and nose riding. I've included the you tube links here for Part 1 and Part 2 as a measure. Part 3 is more cross stepping than nose riding......
I'm still sticking to my plan of a total of 4 vid's to document my progress. My goal is for Part 4 to be true noseriding! I couldn't help myself putting in the snippet of the quasi move...still cracks me up. Gotta love the cameo too... :)
Part 3
https://youtu.be/jz2mGAwQfrQ
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Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTo_quPtDPk&t=235s
Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ti55wMDJsk
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Nice Whatz^.... you are getting this down and looking comfortable throwing in some style moves!!!
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lovin' it. and like rick says, you're doing it with style.
(and btw if anyone wants to buy a brand-new never-been-in-water jimmy l b&b, i've got one in my garage in RI ...)
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Thanks Creeker and Linter!
Linter: Will pm you.....
8) 8)
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Yes, you are making some serious progress WZ! I have all kinds of problems cross stepping on my back-side, but like everything, it's a work in process...
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Good for you Wat'z! I envy those little peelers. Of course, I cannot do as well as you, but I can see pretty good. I see you hesitate and end up with little opportunity.
I never knew the concept of 'lock of the tail' until I came across this guy from Japan/HI who, for a few years, has chronicled the do's/don'ts of surf moves with the beginner in mind. I suspect this 'lock of the tail' further stabilizes the board so you can more confidently go forward. ...maybe?!
See his entry of 29 Dec 2018 'Santa Five' for starters ...there's tons more. http://alohaki.jugem.jp/?page=1
I'm kinda amazed there are not more references to this guy here?!
Jim
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Thank you Bean and Wetstuff...
I can pick out things on every single ride that is an issue in these videos and the numerous others I've captured and I try my damndest to think about and address went I hit the gym. I do a good amount of BOSU ball squats and timed one-legged balance stands which I know has helped my balance along with a good bit of abs/lower back core work. The one thing that I'm trying to bring to the water is what I do with mats at the gym. I lay a couple of them out on the floor to mimic my 10' board and practice cross-stepping back and forth using light dumbbells from where the handle would be. I practice dropping my lead foot back at the start of every rep to bring it in tight to my back foot and either drop my back foot further back to the tail to simulate a turn left or right. Once my front foot is in fairly tight to my back foot I know for my height its three cross step moves which would put my back foot just on forward of the white line and my front foot within a very easy step from 5 over easy....in the water I've not started forward by pulling my front foot back and as a result I've been only taking two cross steps which puts my back foot on the tail side of the white line and my front foot anywhere from a few inches of the nose or a foot or better. I'm convinced if I can mimic the floor mat work in the water it'll get me consistently better rides up front.
Sorry for the long drawn out explanation.....I think I just did this more for myself in order to instill or force (myself) into what I think/want to do....
Crazy hooked!!!!!
8) 8)
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i've posted about him here before. ramrod. he's great. we exchanged emails about noseriding for a good long time, two or three years back, and he was never less than helpful. and, in my case, hopeful.
patrice, at gong, is another good guy. similar email situation. he's got a how-to crossstep vid out that's in french. i paid a guy 7 on fiverr to translate it a few days ago and will post it when i get a free moment. have not read it yet.
and don't get me started about the superduper awesome jimmy lewis. love that guy!
Good for you Wat'z! I envy those little peelers. Of course, I cannot do as well as you, but I can see pretty good. I see you hesitate and end up with little opportunity.
I never knew the concept of 'lock of the tail' until I came across this guy from Japan/HI who, for a few years, has chronicled the do's/don'ts of surf moves with the beginner in mind. I suspect this 'lock of the tail' further stabilizes the board so you can more confidently go forward. ...maybe?!
See his entry of 29 Dec 2018 'Santa Five' for starters ...there's tons more. http://alohaki.jugem.jp/?page=1
I'm kinda amazed there are not more references to this guy here?!
Jim
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check wingnut's steppin' tool 'sup:
http://www.goofboard.co.za/
used mine obsessively for a few months--prolly should bklyn blow it out!! possessions possess!
kudos to anyone who can cross-step well on this--i got pretty good with it, but not so much cross-steppin
looks like youre getting some moves and having fun 'sup.
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ah yes, the goofboard. i once wrote a story about my adventures in noseriding and cross/stepping which include the following lines. good fun! splitting headache!
After that, I’ll take a break and go work on my balance skills, warming up with a vintage Bongo Board that I’ve actually gotten good at; progressing to a wobbly electrified version of the Bongo Board called the uSurf, which doesn’t so much aim to improve your balance as to throw you against the wall; transitioning to a contemplative glance at my Wingnut-endorsed Goof Board, a type of advanced balance board that I’m too scared to try; and ending with me soaking my head in a fifth of vodka.
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Yeah, I still use the goof board I built a couple of years ago. I jump on it every coupe of days for 10-15 mins. Knock on wood I haven't had any wicked wipeouts on it but have come close. I started using it on pretty thick carpet which dampened the roll a bit but since have graduated to a very thin carpet which makes it a bit more lively. It's just another tool/exercise for getting/trying to stay nimble.
https://youtu.be/RhiCEJoZyL0
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This is a great thread Whats^.
I've been a short boarder all my life, and never really clicked with long boards, other than to take my kids out when they were little. Now that I ride SUP, I think the long boards are my favorite board to ride, even in heavier stuff. Going down the same path, learning to nose ride and cross step. So much fin.
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May has been a great month thus far.....12 sessions in the books. This past Sat and yesterday (Mem. Day) have been super fun with clean conditions for the early early morning sessions.
I've been messing with fin placement and have been trying a fin that Mr. Big suggested...his FCS Fat Boy. I started with it all the way up front, then middle, now its all the back in the fin box. Not sure I'm sold just yet....still an underway experiment.
Any way, here a batch of pics from this holiday weekend. Hanging out up front a lot these days.....I'm still fine tuning my step and feet placement. Still not getting a true "toes over", but its only a matter of more time in the water....I think next session (tomorrow probably), I'll practice squatting down and extending my front foot out - should be able get the piggies over doing that! ;D ;D
The quest continues!!!!!!
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Nice Todd!..... really fun watching you surf during our latest session together, I like your style!
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inspiration for me. I have a Steeze, which apparently people can get their toes up on the front, but for me that 4' walk looks a lot farther than it does on the beach. But I like this idea of trimming, cross stepping and getting up on the nose. For now its an "idea", but thanks for paving the way.
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Thanks Creeker! That was a lot of fun with you and Jimmy and look forward to doing it again soon!!!!
Supsean: You've got the right board for it with the Steeze! You'll get there....it just takes time, patience, and persistence......lot's of persistence - just like everything else in life worthwhile!!!!! Keep at it, Lord knows I am!!
8) 8)
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Figured I was long overdue for update so wanted to push a quick update on subject line topic......
I've now suffered two external hard drive failures this summer......the first one about 3 months ago and managed to lose all my iMovie footage. I had a "project" which contained half a dozen clips of some final video (#4 of 4) cross stepping w/ closeup 5-over nose rides - gone! I wanted a couple more rides to add to the video but I should've just wrapped it out and pushed it out...
Progress had progressed to the point this summer on my B&B SUP that I was getting at least one super fun hang 5 per session, sometimes more. Cross stepping had progressed to a point where I felt very comfy moving up and back and I started to think more and more about some local longboard guys who were/are really good. So, after lots of parking lot chats with some older local long boarders and a couple of Zoner's here (once proners) I decided to buy a longboard and set my goals on cross stepping and nose riding that.
After LOT's of research and conversations I settled on a 9'6" Walden Mega Magic. That was back in later July and I haven't ridden a SUP since.....let the sighs, bantering, bottle throwing begin! ;D ;D I've become obsessed w/ it and its been a learning curve but its now been about 2 months and I'm now starting to cross step it up and back with some regular success and feel I'll soon get to the point of being able to get some cheater 5's.
(Stands w/ head bowed) "My name is WhatsSUP, and I've been SUP free since the middle of July"......... :( :(
::) ::) ::) ::)
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Nice to hear your progress on the B&B.
What were the considerations that compelled you to try a laydown longboard?
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WhatsSUP
said:
"That was back in later July and I haven't ridden a SUP since."
traitorous bastard! ;)
Come up to the Cape and we'll see how much you like your little sinker ;D
Nice talking to you this morning!
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Subber: Couple of reasons I guess....I was a VERY VERY novice surfer back in my college days and probably only managed a few green water rides given irregular/infrequent outings, but those few rides were etched in my mind forever and I totally got it (surfer stoke). Over the years I’ve only got out a handful of times in various places. Why prone? Started SUP 4 years ago now, or thereabouts, cuz I simply thought I was getting too old to start proning (now age 58) and I saw lots of folks my age and older that where killin it on SUP! I got hooked in a big way and loved it! Earlier this summer I just couldn’t stop thinking about trying to prone again...so, rather that try someone’s longboard or demo something I did a bit of research and dropped $1300 like a moron - not knowing if I’d try it once or twice and hang it on the wall. Turns out that my first session on it resulted in several rides that brought me back to previous attempts except I was actually pretty successful from the start. Make no doubt, had a ton of wipeouts but I had a some really nice little rides too - No doubt in my mind that my quick prone progress/success was largely because of SUP. I just had to practice/relearn pop-ups. I still miss a good number waves and pearl but I also get a LOT of crazy fun rides. Its definitely a different feeling I get without a paddle - not sure what it is...free-er I guess - at least in part...also, turning/kicking out of wave after a successful ride and meeting the board as I fall slowly back to the water in a controlled manner in perfect position to prone paddle back out is a pretty sweet feeling/sensation.
Creeker: WhatsSUP
said:
"That was back in later July and I haven't ridden a SUP since."
traitorous bastard! ;)
Come up to the Cape and we'll see how much you like your little sinker ;D
Nice talking to you this morning!
HAH!!!!! ;D ;D ;D I knew I could count on you for a good bash! And the only thing I'm dangling in the water up there is some bait on a hook from a BIG ass boat!!! Homey ain't playin that game! ;D ;D
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treasonous!! (yes, i am jealous)
sounds really fun, and you can come back to the fold anytime....in case you dont become a militant anti-sup guy!!
i might never have sup'ed if my hip and shoulders werent shot--if i prone paddle a lousy hour my neck and shoulders are effed for a day or two--and popups are stumbleups, given my rotted left hip---so i can still drop softer waves, but i can get so much more fun on a sup, even if waves are soft, that it's unlikely my proneboards will be recalled from friends who are enjoying them cool to see you get chops on sup, which then eases transition back to prone
props to you---with doggedness, you are learning new stuff--they say that's key to staying young of both mind and body
pls dont key the car in RI with NY plates and sup stickers! at least not the subaru......
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Subber: Couple of reasons I guess....I was a VERY VERY novice surfer back in my college days and probably only managed a few green water rides given irregular/infrequent outings, but those few rides were etched in my mind forever and I totally got it (surfer stoke). Over the years I’ve only got out a handful of times in various places. Why prone? Started SUP 4 years ago now, or thereabouts, cuz I simply thought I was getting too old to start proning (now age 58) and I saw lots of folks my age and older that where killin it on SUP! I got hooked in a big way and loved it! Earlier this summer I just couldn’t stop thinking about trying to prone again...so, rather that try someone’s longboard or demo something I did a bit of research and dropped $1300 like a moron - not knowing if I’d try it once or twice and hang it on the wall. Turns out that my first session on it resulted in several rides that brought me back to previous attempts except I was actually pretty successful from the start. Make no doubt, had a ton of wipeouts but I had a some really nice little rides too - No doubt in my mind that my quick prone progress/success was largely because of SUP. I just had to practice/relearn pop-ups. I still miss a good number waves and pearl but I also get a LOT of crazy fun rides. Its definitely a different feeling I get without a paddle - not sure what it is...free-er I guess - at least in part...also, turning/kicking out of wave after a successful ride and meeting the board as I fall slowly back to the water in a controlled manner in perfect position to prone paddle back out is a pretty sweet feeling/sensation.
Creeker: WhatsSUP
said:
"That was back in later July and I haven't ridden a SUP since."
traitorous bastard! ;)
Come up to the Cape and we'll see how much you like your little sinker ;D
Nice talking to you this morning!
HAH!!!!! ;D ;D ;D I knew I could count on you for a good bash! And the only thing I'm dangling in the water up there is some bait on a hook from a BIG ass boat!!! Homey ain't playin that game! ;D ;D
Whatsup
I am not jealous a bit.........I am jealous a whole lot. I still take my long board out a couple of times a year, just to reassure myself that I still can’t pop up. Way to go and thanks for sharing the stoke.
Bob
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Eastie & FRP,
All good fella's....I love anything that anyone does that involves Mother Ocean for recreational value - if I'm to coin/cop, actually a local business, we are all water brothers. We all know and share the connection of her power (both spiritually and a good pimp slapping), joy, beauty, etc...
I will return to SUP....probably when I start freezing me arse off in a couple of months when I could be standing in the sun and warmer air up on a nice sunny day! 8) ;D
For now, I'll continue to stick with my longboard and just have fun and look for friends who show up and just want to enjoy some fresh air and hopefully some fun rides & vibes.
I'm usually on the Zone every day...I just don't log in....ESPECIALLY with all the banter about politics and non-water stuff....I can get that crap in a lot of other places!!!!!!! I want pics, videos, board reviews, repair info......just saying.
Talk soon fella's....Hope to see ya on (or in) the water!
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Here's a short little clip I made from yesterday's session.....ah yeah, I know, I forgot my paddle. ::) ;D ;D ;D
Sloooooowly but surely!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK7fKkH1zc4
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If I could still pop up I would. SUP came along just in time for me.
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Great music, is that Los Straightjackets?
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Not LS ....Surfs up by Henrik Anderssen
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If I could still pop up I would. SUP came along just in time for me.
I can still pop up, and there's no way I'm going back. SUP has opened way too many doors for me. The other day I tried to think of what begin on a short board gives me, and all I could come up with was speed of maneuvers, but I don't want to surf like that any more. When I was a kid, Gerry Lopez was my main idol. The older I get, the more I want to surf like that. So imagine my delight when I heard what he had to say about SUP surfing.
I suffered much ridicule from my surfing peers when I changed over to SUP two years ago. Now I get all the questions ;-)
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my sup boards ride like shortboards in many ways, but they carry speed/plane in crap way better than shortboards--now super snappy skilled maneuvers will always be better on nice waves on a shortboard, but that's a tiny piece of the puzzle---the whole rest of the puzzle is way better on a sup--and wave count is unarguable--i hear constantly from proners "jeeze you get so many fun looking waves"
i can still pop up on a longboard on a soft wave--but i choose to sup, even then--more fun to be had
but that's just me---and whatsup's sojourn looks like tons of fun for him
if i had time and plentiful waves i might well be mixing things up too