Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: SoFloSupChick on September 02, 2018, 09:27:11 PM
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I'm fairly recent to stand up paddling, but I'm pretty much addicted at this point, so obviously I need a new board (duh).
I live close to the beach, so I paddle in ocean conditions almost daily (unless it gets too windy or there's a lightning storm). Right now I have a Starboard iWindSUP 11'2. I actually like that board a lot, but I've been trying to catch some "bumps" with it, and been told that it's not going to happen. So I think I'm looking for a downwind-friendly board, that can handle choppy conditions well, and maybe even do a bit of surfing (I'm still figuring this thing out)...
So, here is my actual question:
From what I've seen, a couple boards that get recommended a lot are SIC Bullet v1 and Jimmy Lewis M14. I looked on the manufacturers' websites, and was a bit confused, especially with SIC. Are those specific boards actually still available? Or are they older models that people hold in high regard? If they are older models that aren't being made anymore, is there a different board that would work for me?
Thanks a bunch!
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No, SIC do not sell the Bullet 14v1 any more, sadly. But they do sell the Bullet 14v2, which is an extremely popular and likeable board. For most people in most conditions, it would be a good choice. Looks great too and is easy to live with (eg. handle is great, nice and light, although you can’t knock it about).
The M14 is very “surfy”. The Jimmy Lewis Rail, which is a newer design aimed at milder downwind conditions, is also very much worth a look. Beautiful boards, and they are made tougher than the SICs.
My advice is not to go too narrow for your first downwind board. Most people of average weight need something in the 27-28” wide range when they start out. And for downwinding, as you have already heard, length is key.
Try to demo some boards if you can. It would be time and money well spent.
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So, Flo.. My answer is buried in your question; "..older models that people hold in high regard..." There are many stepping stones along the path to SUP Nirvana, and unless you are a Derm or cosmetic dentist, you may want to able to feel the freedom of passing along something that you found not to be to your taste in 60 days.
I'd be willing to bet there are more boards sold-at-retail stuck in people's garages because they cannot live with the inevitable markdown ..versus the board 'you bought at markdown' ...that same pride, not arising, will not stop you from selling. Craigslist can be handy. Make sure you expand the search area and be prepared to travel. Gas is less expensive than plastic at retail. Good hunting.
Jim
...and don't skimp on paddles!
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Yep, if you can find nice examples of either the M14 or the Bullet 14V1 in SCC construction being sold used at a good price, then buy them. Both great boards. The replacements for them in the ranges aren't really better, just different, aimed slightly different uses and users. Both of these boards are still as good - if not better - than anything currently available.
Buying used is the smart way to go if you can. Depreciation on SUPs is dramatic.
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Good points, thanks!
I've been reading this thread (https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,33572.html (https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,33572.html)) also, and being in South Florida, it seems relevant. On most days, it's kind of a messy chop around here.
A couple other boards that made an appearance there:
- Naish Maliko
- Bark Vapor
- SIC RS
- Fanatic Falcon
- SIC Bayonet
Any thoughts on these, specifically which ones would be more appropriate for a beginner? And would any of these might be a better choice for me?
Also, where might one demo a board? It seems like the shops around here cater more to "all around" / beginner type boards.
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On most days, it's kind of a messy chop around here.
Any thoughts on these, specifically which ones would be more appropriate for a beginner? And would any of these might be a better choice for me?
A used Bark Vapor 14' would be ideal. Stable and predictable even at 26" wide. Great on confused and side chop. It would let you learn what you need to learn and gain tons of confidence without limiting you in any way.
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Naish Maliko - nice board, worth trying if you can.
Bark Vapor - pick of the bunch for you and what you describe. Very user-friendly and easy to paddle, downwinder well, especially in light conditions (under 20 knots).
SIC RS - an excellent all waters raceboard but too technical to downwind for people starting out. Buy this if and when you get into racing seriously.
Fanatic Falcon - quite good downwind but not as good as the others for general messy ocean paddling perhaps.
SIC Bayonet - a specialist downwind board that is not really aimed at beginner downwinders. You might progress to this one on a year or two.
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Having experienced South FL for many month, Downwinds are not all that common so boards
like the Naish Maliko are probably a better choice as they are super fun and super capable in
most conditions.
Not sure where you're from exactly but you may want to hit your local brand Flying Fish
and see if they can hook you up with something. They have some good boards and you might be able to score a really good board for a really good price
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Looks like Bark Vapor and Naish Maliko are getting the most endorsements... I'll definitely be on the lookout for those and for a demo.
@burchas, yeah, I know that downwinders aren't common here, but it does look like a lot of fun. I figured I should get some practice and work with what's available, so that when there's an actual downwinding opportunity, at least I have some skills. Perhaps this is faulty logic, I'm not sure. Like I said, I'm quite new to this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Flying Fish is a bit of a hike, but I'll check them out.
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Looks like Bark Vapor and Naish Maliko are getting the most endorsements... I'll definitely be on the lookout for those and for a demo.
@burchas, yeah, I know that downwinders aren't common here, but it does look like a lot of fun. I figured I should get some practice and work with what's available, so that when there's an actual downwinding opportunity, at least I have some skills. Perhaps this is faulty logic, I'm not sure. Like I said, I'm quite new to this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Flying Fish is a bit of a hike, but I'll check them out.
That’s exactly the right attitude to DWing. It’s a physically and technically demanding activity, so you have to keep sharp when conditions are not blowing. On a board like the Vapor and Maliko if it’s light winds you can do upwind/downwind circuits and should be able to catch little surges even if the wind is only 10-15 knots. In fact, getting yourself onto tiny little bumps (aka ripple-riding) that are hardly even there is really great practice because then when conditions get bigger you find that it is easier to launch yourself into them - ripple-riding is tough to do well and you need a high degree of fitness and timing. Having the right board makes it a pleasure though, and it is curiously absorbing and satisfying, trying to keep yourself in sync with the ocean. It’s a great way to unwind, and is just about the best exercise you can get, I reckon! If you’ve got a heart-rate monitor, watch it reach new heights when you are downwinding - or even just ripple-riding.
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Perhaps this is faulty logic, I'm not sure. Like I said, I'm quite new to this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's a healthy logic. And those do everything boards will serve you right for that purpose.
See if you can hook up with the downwind dedicated crew in your region. There aren't
many of those, 2 here in the forum are from the gulf coast but they often visit the
the atlantic side.
Not sure if you're on the email list, but the Miami crew has list and they do shoot out an
alert when conditions seem to align to try an organize a run.
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Yes that is a great way to get into down-wind some more and it is safer. Shuttles become easier and beers after the workout :-)
We have our group here in Howe Sound (#SoundGang) and many of us have become friends.
Specially when we are paddling together in the middle of winter.
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On a board like the Vapor and Maliko if it’s light winds you can do upwind/downwind circuits and should be able to catch little surges even if the wind is only 10-15 knots.
This is exactly what I've been trying to do with my inflatable (go upwind/downwind), but to no avail. :-\ Hopefully, getting the right board should help with that.
Thanks to all for the feedback, everyone! There goes all my $$$
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Honestly about any used 12'6 or 14' race board will get you rolling on longer distances and chop--assuming you're light and fit. If you find downwinding attractive the least expensive option, in the long run, is to do what Burchas does and come to the Gorge in late spring or early summer and rent your way through the outrageously complete fleet at Big Winds. It may well be the only place in the world where you try all the latest boards in spectacular and generally consistent downwind conditions. By midsummer we might have smoke and heat--it's been that way the last three years. Might be the new normal.
If you think you're hooked now...
Oh, and the SIC Bullet V2 in 12'6" or 14 is really an incremental replacement for the V1. They are like bellybuttons in the Gorge--everyone has one. In the 17'+ segment of the line the V1 and V2 are different boards for different specialized conditions. The Bayonet was initially called the Bullet V3. It's also completely different and even more specialized.
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I'd say stick to 12'6 versions since this will be easier to handle than the 14FT and most women use 12 or 12'6
I'd throw in the SUNOVA search or Race models
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
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Women-schwomen... If I always did what "most women" do, my life would have been pretty darn boring.
Also, fun fact, I actually tried to register on this forum twice with a non-gender-obvious username, and my account didn't get approved. Tried to use "Chick" in the username, and the account got approved in a few minutes. Go figure... Maybe I'm not even a woman at all? :o
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Where are you in south FL? If you haven't found a board by November I'll be back in Fort Lauderdale and you're welcome to try some of my boards out. I have these boards you can try; 14 bullet V1 and V2, 2017 starboard allstars 14 x23, 14x24.5, 14x 27, SIC RS 14x 24.5, 2017 JP allwater 14x 25.5, NSP ocean racer 14x 28, amundson TRX 14x 27 . These are not for sale, I use these on my charter boat. The more boards you can try the better.
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Go figure... Maybe I'm not even a woman at all? :o
Me either. And I'm not really all that Pono.
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Women-schwomen... If I always did what "most women" do, my life would have been pretty darn boring.
Also, fun fact, I actually tried to register on this forum twice with a non-gender-obvious username, and my account didn't get approved. Tried to use "Chick" in the username, and the account got approved in a few minutes. Go figure... Maybe I'm not even a woman at all? :o
Hmm, yes. I thought about saying something when you got the standard (if you were British) “full pints of beer for the men; ladies drink half pints” reply... but, well, you can fight your own battles I’m sure. As you just did. Amongst my female SUP buddies preference for 14 these days slightly outnumbers 12-6, although 12-6 does have a loyal following. Very light amateurs can sometimes actually find themselves faster on a 12-6 in flat water or upwind. But I can’t imagine anyone who really wants to downwind even semi-seriously choosing a 12-6 instead of a 14. For downwind, length is key to fun. Or at least, easy fun.
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@easy, thanks much! Appreciate the offer, and might take you up on it! :D I'm also in Fort Lauderdale.
@Area 10, not to completely derail the conversation, but the community would be much better off if these weren't just "my own battles".
This could have been another woman, who didn't know any better, take this kind of advice to heart, get her a "pink it and shrink it" lady board, and it would not have been the best board for her.
Luckily, in this situation I know better. My guess is that gender has less to do with it than height / weight / technique. For example, I'm taller than my husband. And while he is physically stronger, I usually leave him in the dust (or spray).
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This could have been another woman, who didn't know any better, take this kind of advice to heart, get her a "pink it and shrink it" lady board, and it would not have been the best board for her.
Nothing wrong with a "lady board" for the right user...
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@Area 10, not to completely derail the conversation, but the community would be much better off if these weren't just "my own battles".
This could have been another woman, who didn't know any better, take this kind of advice to heart, get her a "pink it and shrink it" lady board, and it would not have been the best board for her.
Luckily, in this situation I know better. My guess is that gender has less to do with it than height / weight / technique. For example, I'm taller than my husband. And while he is physically stronger, I usually leave him in the dust (or spray).
If you weren't on the other coast, I'd swear you were a friend of mine I surf with...and both of you ROCK!! Can't offer you any better advice on the boards than you've already been giving, but love the stoke, and the "attitude"...and say, "just go give 'em hell SoFlo!", I have no doubt you'll do great on whatever you decide on. :D
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...the community would be much better off if these weren't just "my own battles"
If you're looking to do downwind in South Florida, you'll have to be prepared for a lot of those,
and get use to Uber shuttling do to solo runs.
I don't know where @easy were when I stayed in Fort La but with this kind of fleet and charter
boat to go with it, it's the perfect setup for a South Florida downwinders, as the one thing you can
count on is the easterly wind.
Otherwise, PonoBill's recommendation makes a lot of sense. One good week in Hood River
will give you about 3 years worth of good downwinders in South FL. and you'll get access to
the best boards at will.
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Would take up easy on the offer. But def get a board "right for you" -> not what is good for someone else. ;)
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Just to wet your appetite on the Bark Vapor and The Naish Maliko :-)
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Just to wet your appetite on the Bark Vapor and The Naish Maliko :-)
Luc, enough is enough! You had plenty of time to play with the Maliko ;) now it's time for
your side by side review for these boards. Maybe OP will find your insights helpful.
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Just to wet your appetite on the Bark Vapor and The Naish Maliko :-)
Luc, enough is enough! You had plenty of time to play with the Maliko ;) now it's time for
your side by side review for these boards. Maybe OP will find your insights helpful.
Ok here ya go:
Maliko is faster in flat water.
Vapor is easier in very choppy waters.
Both are nice downwind.
:)
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Just to wet your appetite on the Bark Vapor and The Naish Maliko :-)
Luc, enough is enough! You had plenty of time to play with the Maliko ;) now it's time for
your side by side review for these boards. Maybe OP will find your insights helpful.
Hey I just received it yesterday evening!!!! and I am at work until the week-end......
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Ok here ya go:
Maliko is faster in flat water.
Vapor is easier in very choppy waters.
Both are nice downwind.
:)
And that, in a nutshell is why I bought a Maliko, even if I already had a Vapor. Very similar but different and I should be able to jump from one to the other without having to readjust my paddling and stance like with a displacement board.
This does not count (by Oliver Darkes):
https://vimeo.com/287371659 (https://vimeo.com/287371659)
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Oh, and BTW the two boards have similar finbox, so my fins that fitted the Vapor also fit the Maliko. Just that, brought a smile to my face (in addition to the board been almost like new outside of a few minor scratches on the paint).
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I think the Maliko is probably the closest we have to a one-board solution for a wide variety of conditions right now, from pure flatwater sprint to long ocean DW with everything in between. It’s kinda right in the middle whereas all other all waters boards are slightly more oriented one way or the other (flat or bumps). The 2019 JL Sidewinder probably comes pretty close too (I don’t have DW or surf experience of the Sidewinder) but the Maliko has been refined year on year for just that bit longer.
The Vapor is really pretty much a specialist DW or surf race-type board. It’s very pleasant to paddle in flat water but you wouldn’t possibly use it even remotely seriously for a pure FW race.
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Just to wet your appetite on the Bark Vapor and The Naish Maliko :-)
Well, now you're just showing off! :P And yes - side-by-side comparison, please! (once you've had enough time with Maliko).
Maliko is faster in flat water.
Vapor is easier in very choppy waters.
Both are nice downwind.
This still doesn't make it any easier, haha! We have both the ocean with glassy days and the canals around here. But I think I just convinced my husband that he's going to need a new board if he wants to keep up, so... ;D
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But I think I just convinced my husband that he's going to need a new board if he wants to keep up, so... ;D
I guess you're all good now. Bark for "him" ;) and Maliko for you.
We'll expect your side by side review soon because with Luc you never know,
he might show up with yet a whole different board tomorrow, he is know for it ;D
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So I think I'm looking for a downwind-friendly board, that can handle choppy conditions well, and maybe even do a bit of surfing (I'm still figuring this thing out)...
So, here is my actual question:
From what I've seen, a couple boards that get recommended a lot are SIC Bullet v1 and Jimmy Lewis M14.
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For the “bit of surfing” part of your quesiton:
Naish Maliko isn’t the turniest board. It’s light and fast but wants to go straight unless you walk to the back and pivot it. great board as mentioned here but has two downsides: not very turny and the nose is underwater a lot in choppy upwind.
Jimmy Lewis M14 is a nicely turny board but needs a lot of wind to become fun DW. Is more for a heavy person. The Rail is faster and stays turny (and is light!).
SIC Bullet’s are high volume and suit a heavy person well. They aren’t the turniest either.
Infinity Downtown looks like it has a nice kick in the tail which would make it fun to turn. Looks like a good allrounder. I haven’t tried it, nor the Vapor however.
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This one is for Area10.
I just weighted the Maliko and it is 28lbs against 25lbs for the Vapor :(
Construction feels really sturdy so no free lunch on that one.
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OK, so here's a question...
If I hypothetically looking at a Maliko, which width should I go with?
Based on Area 10's comment in another thread, I was thinking 28". Also seeing how this would be my first "grown up" board, going from a 32" wide inflatable...
This was Area 10's comment:
"Btw, if you really like stability in a board then consider the 14x28 Maliko. I had a quick paddle on DavidJohn’s (DJ) Maliko in Melbourne (thanks DJ!) when it was probably only 10-15 knots and was surprised at how well it went in the little bumps. There’s a lot to be said for stability and a large planing area in messy downbreezing, if fun is your goal. I think maybe his 14x28 actually went better in downbreeze conditions than the 14x26 I subsequently tried at home. This runs contrary to received wisdom (which would say that in light winds the narrower board should be better), but that’s my experience. As I say, there can be benefits to more planing area. I actually think the DJ version off the Maliko (14x28) would be a very nice all round coastal board for a lot of people. We don’t all want to be wobbling around on narrow logs!"
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I guess you're all good now. Bark for "him" ;) and Maliko for you.
Haha, you know it, burchas! ;) 8)
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For the “bit of surfing” part of your quesiton:
Thanks for the input! To be fair, the "bit of surfing" is probably not going to happen all that often in our area. I've lived here for almost 4 years, and seen what I would consider "surfable" waves maybe 10 times or so.
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This one is for Area10.
I just weighted the Maliko and it is 28lbs against 25lbs for the Vapor :(
Construction feels really sturdy so no free lunch on that one.
Yeah, the 2018 Maliko is a bit of a lump. They beefed up the construction for 2018 because the 2017 ones turned out to be a bit fragile. But the Maliko is PVC sandwich, right? That will make a huge difference to durability, and is what I’d choose for a production board even if it might add a couple of pounds. I’d buy a 2018 or 2019 Maliko but I think I’d give the 2017 a miss, even though it is lighter.
These boards are getting crazy expensive in the UK. A 2108 carbon All Star is now 4130 dollars US. If I’m spending that kind of money I want to know that the board isn’t going to ding easily, chip, or fold like taco in a surf race, or just fall apart at the seams like a jigsaw that has been shaken with only light normal use. I’m not made of money so I want it to last. It’s hard enough to sell a used race SUP anyway. Try selling a really tatty one, never mind the “ding tax” that some brands seem to expect you to pay for being an owner of their super-expensive boards.
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OK, so here's a question...
If I hypothetically looking at a Maliko, which width should I go with?
Based on Area 10's comment in another thread, I was thinking 28". Also seeing how this would be my first "grown up" board, going from a 32" wide inflatable...
That depends on your weight/height. With my first grown up board I went from a 12.6x32"
to a 12.6x27. I'm 5.8 and 180.
I'd say probably the 26 for you, knowing your conditions and the fact you won't be doing
downwinders most of the time. It will also give you some room to grow.
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With my first grown up board I went from a 12.6x32" to a 12.6x27. I'm 5.8 and 180.
I'm 5'8" and a bit lighter than you... How was your transition to 27"? I just want to make sure I'm still having a good time, and not hating every minute of my life, haha :) Even though I don't foresee that happening, but that's what people say if you go too narrow too fast...
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With my first grown up board I went from a 12.6x32" to a 12.6x27. I'm 5.8 and 180.
I'm 5'8" and a bit lighter than you... How was your transition to 27"? I just want to make sure I'm still having a good time, and not hating every minute of my life, haha :) Even though I don't foresee that happening, but that's what people say if you go too narrow too fast...
My Trasiiton was seamless, in very short time the board felt too wide for me in most
conditions. These days I settle for 25" for anything. I found it to be the most comfortable
and wide but still not too wide to interfere with proper stroke.
Unless you have bad balancing issues, you should be fine. It also has a lot to do
with time on the water so the more you have and in different conditions, the better it gets.
When it comes to too narrow, it seems to me that the barrier starts under 25" for mixed
conditions and open water, this is of-course generalization but it's rare that I hear about
people struggling to adjust to a 26" board and even then, we're talking either much heavier,
taller or both than you.
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25 is usually the best compromise. The few actual good days of DW that Florida gets per year will be challenging on a 25 but the other 95% will be fine. I have a Vapor and it handles anything Florida can throw at it. The flying fish boards are fun DW boards and surf really well but are more technical than the vapor being more race focused. Having “downwinded” the Florida chop in pretty much every condition on boards ranging from 23 to 29” I prefer the vapor as the one board quiver.
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25 is usually the best compromise. The few actual good days of DW that Florida gets per year will be challenging on a 25 but the other 95% will be fine. I have a Vapor and it handles anything Florida can throw at it. The flying fish boards are fun DW boards and surf really well but are more technical than the vapor being more race focused. Having “downwinded” the Florida chop in pretty much every condition on boards ranging from 23 to 29” I prefer the vapor as the one board quiver.
The Vapor is 26” wide.
SoFloSUPchick - you should by now have some idea of how your balance and athletic abilities compare to the average person. If your balance abilities are about average and you are averagely athletic and really enjoy SUP and progressing, then the 14x 26 Maliko should be fine for you. You should only need the 28” wide at your height and weight if you are going to downwind a lot, are relatively unfit, or your waters are very choppy. Moreover, a wider board is a lot less pleasant to paddle in flat or nearly-flat water because it makes getting the shaft really vertical much more effortful. Today I paddled a 31.5” wide board in pure flat water, and it reminded me of how much nicer it is to paddle narrower boards - I was having to really lean out over the rail to get the shaft vertical and this was tiring and felt awkward. So, you need to balance the advantages of going narrower in terms of pleasure paddling when you aren’t downwinding (and the considerable advantage when going upwind of a narrower board) against the ease of balance when you are downwinding. It sounds like where you SUP you simply cannot ignore the fact that your conditions are super-mild a lot of the time. So the 26 is a clear winner IMO, for you, in your conditions.
The Vapor is a little bit more stable, and the ghost carbon version is usefully lighter (the ordinary Vapor is around the same weight as the Maliko, maybe a tiny bit heavier). The 2018 or 2019 Maliko is possibly more durable. I’d give the 2017 Maliko a miss if I were you - it was light but not durable at all.
It’s hard to imagine anyone being too disappointed with a 14x26 Maliko. It’s a good board and very versatile. 26” wide is probably the most popular width worldwide. So if and when you sell it for something new, it should fetch a better price and be easier to sell.
Hope this helps.
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Yes, it does help a lot!
Thanks for the input, everyone! :)
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I usually paddle an Allstar 14 x 24.5 or a SIC RS 14 x 24.5 on flat water or mild choppy water because I enjoy paddling a narrower board and they go up wind better. But if I'm down winding or paddling in rough water I want to be on a 27 or 28" wide board. Not a lot of down winding in Florida so most of my paddling in Florida and the Bahamas is on the narrower boards. I'm 68 yrs/ old, 5'11", 170lbs with bad feet and crappy balance.
If I could only have one board it would be some thing 14 x 25" -26" wide, all water board.
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If I could only have one board it would be some thing 14 x 25" -26" wide, all water board.
If I could only have one board it would be a (sixteen) 16' Vapor or Maliko.....
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Well, I may or may not have just scored a pretty good deal on a 2019 Maliko 14' x 26" (eek!)
Will report back in a couple of weeks if I've been misled by this bunch :P
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Well, I may or may not have just scored a pretty good deal on a 2019 Maliko 14' x 26" (eek!)
8)
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If I could only have one board it would be a (sixteen) 16' Vapor or Maliko.....
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+1 I wish!
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If I could only have one board it would be a (sixteen) 16' Vapor or Maliko.....
+1 I wish!
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Well, after I get mine, I’ll post a review and then you can put your order in :)
Mine will be built a lot better (lighter, more durable, stiffer) than either the Maliko or Vapor though.
And it will have a better handle and a few other tweaks to make ownership/use easy.
And no paint to chip. Resin tint instead.
Not sure how wide to have it. It will just be smallish downwind and flat(ish) water, so maybe 24.5” like the narrower of my two 16ft DW boards. It will have a fairly wide tail (like the Vapor) and less rocker than my DW board, meaning more board in the water, so I’m thinking it should be stable enough for a wobbly old man like me, as long as I don’t use it in bumps over about thigh-high. I might even be able to go a bit narrower, perhaps. I could upwind/downwind the 12-6x24 version in rippy chop without falling, but I certainly didn’t feel comfortable for more than a few minutes. Any thoughts?
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If I could only have one board it would be a (sixteen) 16' Vapor or Maliko.....
+1 I wish!
Well, after I get mine, I’ll post a review and then you can put your order in :)
Mine will be built a lot better (lighter, more durable, stiffer) than either the Maliko or Vapor though.
And it will have a better handle and a few other tweaks to make ownership/use easy.
And no paint to chip. Resin tint instead.
Not sure how wide to have it. It will just be smallish downwind and flat(ish) water, so maybe 24.5” like the narrower of my two 16ft DW boards. It will have a fairly wide tail (like the Vapor) and less rocker than my DW board, meaning more board in the water, so I’m thinking it should be stable enough for a wobbly old man like me, as long as I don’t use it in bumps over about thigh-high. I might even be able to go a bit narrower, perhaps. I could upwind/downwind the 12-6x24 version in rippy chop without falling, but I certainly didn’t feel comfortable for more than a few minutes. Any thoughts?
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I like your thoughts on construction and board size. I have never paddled a Vapor or a Maliko, but I do like my SIC RS 14x 24.5 so maybe something that combines the best design elements of all three. I really do need to get some time on a Maliko and a Vapor. I would buy or order a 16 x 24 ish light, well built board like this in a second. Actually, I'd have to buy two boards because I wouldn't want to share it with my girl friend.
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Shipping from the UK might be a small issue even with the pound going down.
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Shipping from the UK might be a small issue even with the pound going down.
The first UL downwind board I ever tried was a custom Richmond board from the US that was shipped to the UK just fine. That must be the best part of 10 years ago now. So I’m sure it would be possible to ship the other way across the Atlantic, although no doubt expensive.
It all depends how much you want it, I guess.
I’m waiting for a board to arrive from France right now. The French brand apparently uses a British-invented new design of cardboard shipping box that is supposed to be super-tough, foldable and reusable. Let’s see how that goes. The Richmond board arrived in a wooden crate.
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Shipping from the UK might be a small issue even with the pound going down.
It all depends how much you want it, I guess.
Want is rarely an issue, how deep in debt to achieve is the real issue :-)
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Shipping from the UK might be a small issue even with the pound going down.
Shipping from the UK could be a BIG $ problem.
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Shipping from the UK might be a small issue even with the pound going down.
Shipping from the UK could be a BIG $ problem.
In your case there is no need for shipping at all. Look right in your back yard at Delray Beach.
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Shipping from the UK might be a small issue even with the pound going down.
Shipping from the UK could be a BIG $ problem.
In your case there is no need for shipping at all. Look right in your back yard at Delray Beach.
OK, I'm listening!
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If I could only have one board it would be a (sixteen) 16' Vapor or Maliko.....
+1 I wish!
I'd like a 16' Rail x25
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If I could only have one board it would be a (sixteen) 16' Vapor or Maliko.....
+1 I wish!
I'd like a 16' Rail x25
Yes, that would be a lovely board.
Btw if you compared the 14x28 Rail with the 14x28 M14 for surfing, flat water, and medium DW, how would they fare?
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I know the M14 x28 and Rail x26. So I’m guessing and extrapolating for the Rail x28.
Flatwater for sure the rail faster. It’s a surprising fast board on flats. And chop. The Rail has a slight V under the nose and lower tip rocker. So both longer waterline and doesn’t slap in chop. The overall shape is sleeker and faster too.
Surfing similar I guess. M14 has a slightly wider tail and more tip rocker. So depends what kind of waves. I’m guess the Rail is lighter and more nimble. But the M14 I know is the older heavy one. The new ones may be lighter.
DW the Rail is faster at taking off. Especially for lighter DWs. The M14 comes into it’s own well above 30kn.
Why not Rail x26? It has that hammock like stability that one tunes in to very intuitively and quickly.
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Thanks. In answer to your Q, I was asking about the two boards that are the same width since it’s pretty obvious how a 26” wide 14ft board is gonna compare to a 28” wide one in some regards - I’m more interested in how different designs work rather than differences just due to volume and width.
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Shipping from the UK could be a BIG $ problem.
In your case there is no need for shipping at all. Look right in your back yard at Delray Beach.
OK, I'm listening!
Check out http://birdsurfboards.com. I did major repairs and restoration job with them.
Excellent job and fast turn around time. According to mike the owner, they can accommodate
board sizes up to 16'. I would start with him.
You can always work something out with supuk (that's the shaper Area 10 is referring to,
he's a on the forum as well). to use his shape. If that doesn't work out, reach out to me,
I've been riding that board your fantasizing about more or less for the past year.
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After a couple of paddle with the Maliko, I am very positive about the board with the limitation that the weight does not help in flat.
Saturday went upwind/downwind from the beach on a breeze and tide coming in. Groomed stuff.
The nose poke through the chop nicely and without slowing the board. Likewise, when taking a small bump, you can just bury slightly the nose to take it and then it pops almost by itself.
Sunday did some flat water and did not notice any issue. As soon as there is a ripple then you can get the board into it. Still working out the best trim for flat water to max waterline but not push too much water on the nose..
I was somewhat surprised how stable the board is on groomed and flat. If I did not know better, I would say that I could get away with a 24" for everything light.
I guess that the shape, low on the water and weight are the main factors.
Two things not so great:
1) water seems to pool on the deck in teh standing area. I am almost considering trying a deflector like on a dugout
2) the traditional handle sucks. Garbing the board at any kind of angle is almost impossible. SIC handle or strap are a lot better.
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Well, if you are garbing the handle, no wonder it feels awkward ;)
I was very pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to balance on a 14x24 Maliko. In flat water it wasn’t a problem, even though my balance is crap. But whether it would work for me if I really put the hammer down I’m not so sure. The 24 is quite low volume so you’d better not be too heavy or you’ll be dragging the tail or ploughing the nose.
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Well, if you are garbing the handle, no wonder it feels awkward ;)
I was very pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to balance on a 14x24 Maliko. In flat water it wasn’t a problem, even though my balance is crap. But whether it would work for me if I really put the hammer down I’m not so sure. The 24 is quite low volume so you’d better not be too heavy or you’ll be dragging the tail or ploughing the nose.
Very good point. I think that the volume would be too low for me so it would negate any speed gain from been narrower. The waterline of the 26 is already quite low.
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Yeah, it’s funny isn’t it? - The Vapor (14x26) is apparently only a handful of litres more than the Maliko (14x26) but it feels like more. And although the Maliko is certainly not unstable, the Vapor feels definitely more stable. It kinda shows how little that dimensions and volume tell you about how a board really feels when you are paddling it.
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It looks like Naish's web site is showing the real weight now and there was no reduction compared to 2018 real measured weights.
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It looks like Naish's web site is showing the real weight now and there was no reduction compared to 2018 real measured weights.
I have been thinking about picking up a couple of 2019 Malikos but I can't do it. The board design sounds like just what I have been looking for, but the backyard paint job, the heavy " Carbon " construction
and, the Naish record for build quality doesn't work for me. For $3200+ no thanks.
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It looks like Naish's web site is showing the real weight now and there was no reduction compared to 2018 real measured weights.
I have been thinking about picking up a couple of 2019 Malikos but I can't do it. The board design sounds like just what I have been looking for, but the backyard paint job, the heavy " Carbon " construction
and, the Naish record for build quality doesn't work for me. For $3200+ no thanks.
If you want fast all-waters race boards then try the SIC RS and Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder. Both are nice and light, and the build of the Sidewinder in particular is just about as good as it gets in a production board.
Having said that, I still like that Naish are using full PVC wrap (if they are). I’ll take the extra weight penalty gladly for the extra durability. But the paint... hmm... I have a Naish Nalu that chips as soon as I look at it, and the colour scheme for the 2019 Maliko is unlikely to win them any sales, I suspect. The graphics of the RS and Sidewinder look my classier to my eye.
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and, the Naish record for build quality doesn't work for me. For $3200+ no thanks.
CAD 2,200 used but like new, does feel a lot better and the deciding factor versus a brand new RS or Sidewinder (even with a winter discount).
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the Naish record for build quality doesn't work for me. For $3200+ no thanks.
That was exactly my point. This price is in a custom board territory.
I got my 14 footer custom less than that and the 16 footer at about that.
My color choice (resin tint no paint, matte finish) and super solid construction.
I still can't believe my board survived the past few stormy days with no dings.
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This price is in a custom board territory.
the 16 footer at about that.
My color choice (resin tint no paint, matte finish) and super solid construction.
I still can't believe my board survived the past few stormy days with no dings.
8) I will resist.....at least until next year......and results on your new design.
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Just had my first discussion with Andre about about my new SIC RS 16 x ? Forgive me Lord, for I know not what I do. Should be interesting.
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Just had my first discussion with Andre about about my new SIC RS 16 x ? Forgive me Lord, for I know not what I do. Should be interesting.
:)
You could go pretty narrow with a 16ft RS. What do you weigh, and what are you thinking?
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I'm a beat up old man, 68 yrs, 170lbs, 5' 11" . Bad feet, knees, back, and shoulders. I usually paddle a 14x 24.5 2017 Allstar or recently a 14 x 24.5 SIC RS. I don't do rough open ocean on these boards and I work to stay on when it gets sloppy, but I like the challenge. I like an easily driven board and do a lot of paddling in chop so I want a board that goes up wind and can handle cross winds. I spend the winter months in the southern Bahamas and paddle in mixed conditions. Thinking 16' x 24". Andre (sp?) thinks we shouldn't go any narrower. Haven't had any input from Mark yet. Andre also thinks we should use a rudder. I'm not looking for a downwind board. I have other boards for that. Double carbon construction and looking at pigmented resin,all white board. Board should be around 26+ lbs. I guess we'll see where this goes. should be interesting. I'm open to any input.
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I'm a beat up old man, 68 yrs, 170lbs, 5' 11" . Bad feet, knees, back, and shoulders... I'm open to any input.
I would take it to 25" and have a little more rocker. Just in case you do want to go
on a livelier ocean. You already have boards at 24 range. with the extra 2' you'll get better
speeds anyway. Make sure to give them input as to volume as well if you haven't already.
As for the rudder, since it's FAST system, no reason not to. you can ride it as a fixed fin or
put the rudder if you do feel like going for a light downwinder. Just make sure they don't install
the damn thing too far back. Fin box placement makes a big difference if you ride it fixed.
I would also ask to include a ventral fin box (about 15-20" forward of sanding area) great for
touring adds a lot of stability in chop and boat wake and really good for cross winds.
Good move going that route.
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If you are already fine on a 14x24.5 RS then a 16x24 should be fairly easy. There’s not really any reason to drop another inch unless you intend to race, and going to 22” wide would be too far.
I’m not a fan of rudders for most applications. They add a lot of weight, maintenance, cost, and complication and often don’t work particularly well IMO, and make surfing your board - surely one of the greatest joys of a raceboard - more difficult. But other people love them. So that’s your call. But if you do have a rudder, then Burchas is right - make sure the box is in a compromise position that will work for both a fixed fin and a rudder, so if you find the rudder doesn’t work for you, you can remove it.
Related to this, I’d make sure that there is plenty of standing deck area ahead of the handle, so that you can paddle in quite a forward position if you need to. With an UL board, you can compensate quite effectively in cross-winds by standing a little more forward of your usual standing position. It doesn’t need to be much - just 6-10 inches or so, but it’s worth planning the design of the board so you can do it. This in my experience can work better even than a rudder to compensate for cross-wind or chop because you aren’t adding drag (the purpose of a rudder is to add drag, of a particular kind).
A 16ft RS will be an *amazing* board. You are going to get a lot of pleasure out of that, and be the envy of everyone who sees it. The extra length (and volume that comes from that) will allow you to go quite a bit more sleek in the nose and tail if you wish which should make it even slippier through the water. More glide, greater stability. Wonderful.
PS: I’d get the rear leash plug a little further back than on the 14.
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Thanks burchas and Area 10. Lots of good input. I'm going to use this to make some notes to use when I talk to Mark. I'm not going to try and tell Mark Raaphorst how to build a board, but it will be good to hear his thoughts on some of these ideas. I also know what I want performance wise out of this board. Unfortunately it's going to be two or three months before they can start building these boards. Then they have to be shipped to Florida. It's going to be a long wait. I'd really like to have them in the Bahamas this winter, but i don't think that's going to happen. I guess I'll have to get by on the 14' Allstars and 14' RS. Or i can play on the Bullet V1 or V2.
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Unfortunately it's going to be two or three months before they can start building these boards. Then they have to be shipped to Florida.
That seems somewhat odd, usually not a busy season right now. Maybe take some time to
think over the board specs? My only suggestion is, don't sleep on them, my experience with
them that is was good to keep finger on the pulse...
I think there is a chance you'll have it for your Bahamas Winter. As for shipping, I'm not sure
if they already figured out how to ship it air, the added cost was not as high compared to the
boat but we are talking 3 day delivery, Airport to Airport just like Blue Planet ships.
I would also hit https://www.alohafreight.com for shipping options and prices. They are
specialized in board shipping. Had really good experience with them 1/3 of the price of every
other company and the best care I've ever seen by far! figuring out the shipping in advance
might land you the boards just in time. Good Luck and keep up posted when you get them
so we can feast our eyes on these beauties.
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Yeah, it’s funny isn’t it? - The Vapor (14x26) is apparently only a handful of litres more than the Maliko (14x26) but it feels like more. And although the Maliko is certainly not unstable, the Vapor feels definitely more stable. It kinda shows how little that dimensions and volume tell you about how a board really feels when you are paddling it.
After a few paddles with the Maliko (but no downwind) it definitely does not have this comfort and ease in the chop that the Vapor has.
However on flat water it does feel (measurement in different conditions are even more subjective) faster and to have a little bit more glide. It does feel like you can keep it going "over" the water with a 40 spm cadence for longer. Not sure if it is the shape or the weight or both. I would be very curious to try the exact same board with 4 or 5 pounds less to compare.
It seems to fit the bill of what I was looking for a board for flat to light to complete the Vapor for light to heavier. The Ace been my touring board for distance.
I am sure that the SIC RS or the Sidewinder II might have been even better for that purpose but used boards tend to fit my budget better....
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Maliko is usefully faster than Vapor in pure flat water.
Maliko is probably very slightly faster than an equivalent-width Sidewinder would be in flat water.
SIC RS is a little bit faster than the Maliko in pure flat water, and tiny DW.
Vapor and RS are similar stability.
Maliko and Sidewinder are similar stability.
Vapor much better in decent downwind than RS.
Maliko pretty good downwind, more like the Vapor than the RS. More technical than the Vapor.
I don’t know about the Sidewinder V2 downwind. The V1 was not very good DW.
Pros and cons to all of them. All nice boards.