Standup Zone Forum

Stand Up Paddle => Technique => Topic started by: Quickbeam on August 23, 2018, 11:54:50 AM

Title: Cross Stepping
Post by: Quickbeam on August 23, 2018, 11:54:50 AM
I don’t normally cross step on my board as part of my normal paddling routine, but have worked on it at times. I’ve always been fairly proficient at cross stepping forward on the board (from tail towards the nose), but always seemed to have difficulty cross stepping back (going towards the tail).

A couple of weeks ago I discovered a little trick that seemed to help. When cross stepping I always crossed one leg in front of the other. But then a couple of weeks ago, when I was cross stepping going back (towards the tail), I crossed my leg behind. For whatever reason, this seemed to make a pretty big difference.

So now, when I’m cross stepping forward (from tail towards the nose) I cross one leg in front of the other. But when I’m cross stepping back (going towards the tail) I cross one leg behind the other.

Is this just my weird body mechanics, or has anyone else noticed this?
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Dusk Patrol on August 23, 2018, 12:15:05 PM
So now, when I’m cross stepping forward (from tail towards the nose) I cross one leg in front of the other. But when I’m cross stepping back (going towards the tail) I cross one leg behind the other.

I'm interested in these types of helpful tips/techniques, but can you elaborate on how your backwards cross stepping is different from frontwards?  Other than direction?
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: connector14 on August 23, 2018, 12:31:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UO0o1VZTIA

I wanna be able to move like her!!
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Quickbeam on August 23, 2018, 12:52:02 PM
So now, when I’m cross stepping forward (from tail towards the nose) I cross one leg in front of the other. But when I’m cross stepping back (going towards the tail) I cross one leg behind the other.

I'm interested in these types of helpful tips/techniques, but can you elaborate on how our backwards cross stepping is different from frontwards?  Other than direction?


Not sure how I can describe it better. Previously, I always crossed one leg in front of the other when cross stepping. Now, when cross stepping from tail to nose, I still cross step with one leg going in front of the other, but when cross stepping from nose to tail, I cross step by having one leg go behind the other. Take a look at the video Connector 14 just posted. Look from the 38 second mark to the 42 second mark. When Candice is moving towards the nose at the 38 second mark, she is crossing her right leg in front of her left leg. But when she is moving back, towards the tail, she is crossing her left leg behind her right. This is exactly what I’ve started doing. Previously, going back, I would have been crossing my left leg in front of my right.

Hope this makes more sense with the video. Thanks Connector 14 for sharing that.

And as an aside, it probably wouldn’t make much difference to Candice which way she did it. But I did find it made quite a bit of difference for me.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Dusk Patrol on August 23, 2018, 01:09:43 PM
I see... What were you doing before when stepping back? More shuffling than cross stepping?
I tend to shuffle and I would like to improve on that...   
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Quickbeam on August 23, 2018, 01:14:35 PM
Yes, I normally shuffle back, but I like to practice different things. Like I mentioned in my original post, I could cross step going toward the nose fairly well, but always seem to have trouble cross stepping going back towards the tail. Crossing my leg behind instead of in front when going back helped that quite a bit. It seems pretty subtle, but for me at least it does make a difference.

I should also clarify that I still mostly shuffle back, as it is more efficient for me and I'm more sure footed doing this than cross stepping. But I do like to work on things like this. Maybe someday, with practice, I'll get like Candice  :)
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Dusk Patrol on August 23, 2018, 01:29:15 PM
Yep, she pretty much keeps her feet on the center line. I'm sure there are archived threads on this topic. 
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Luc Benac on August 23, 2018, 01:31:03 PM
Previously, going back, I would have been crossing my left leg in front of my right.

I have just been trying to do that on land after reading your comments and it does feel "unnatural". It probably transfers more of the weight to the side of the board.
Not that I can cross-step anyway  :-[
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Area 10 on August 23, 2018, 04:05:41 PM
I have no idea what you guys are talking about! Cross-stepping is exactly that. You do the same going backwards as you do going forwards. Maybe since I longboard surfed for so many years before SUP I’ve just forgotten what I do. I used to practice cross-stepping up and down my board for hours on the living room floor (with fins removed).  I’m still crap at it. But it’s probably easier to do going back than forwards, really. You don’t so much walk forwards or backwards as you stay in one place and move the board under you.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Surfside on August 23, 2018, 04:07:27 PM
After watching her foot work, I would venture to guess that she also dances. She appears to roll her feet now and then. Practicing dance can help with your balance and technique. we always warmed up with cross steps followed by spins in both directions before class. If anyone is interested, visit Skippy Blair's site and download "walk like a dancer" to start.
https://www.swingworld.com/dance-articles.html
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Quickbeam on August 23, 2018, 04:18:34 PM
Previously, going back, I would have been crossing my left leg in front of my right.

I have just been trying to do that on land after reading your comments and it does feel "unnatural". It probably transfers more of the weight to the side of the board.
Not that I can cross-step anyway  :-[


Hi Luc,

Yes, I agree. I used to sometimes practice on dry land and it just never felt quite right. But when I changed it to the new method, it seems to make quite a difference. Feels more natural on dry land and for me at least, seems to make a difference on the board.

Maybe you're right in that the new method keeps the weight more balanced.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Quickbeam on August 23, 2018, 04:21:03 PM
I have no idea what you guys are talking about! Cross-stepping is exactly that. You do the same going backwards as you do going forwards. Maybe since I longboard surfed for so many years before SUP I’ve just forgotten what I do. I used to practice cross-stepping up and down my board for hours on the living room floor (with fins removed).  I’m still crap at it. But it’s probably easier to do going back than forwards, really. You don’t so much walk forwards or backwards as you stay in one place and move the board under you.

I agree Area 10 that you move the board under you. But I don't agree that you do the same going backwards as you do going forward. That's what I used to do and it was much more difficult. It's also not what Candice is doing in the video. Again, it could well be different for different people, but it is much easier and more balanced for me to do it differently going forward than backward.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Quickbeam on August 23, 2018, 04:24:55 PM
After watching her foot work, I would venture to guess that she also dances. She appears to roll her feet now and then. Practicing dance can help with your balance and technique. we always warmed up with cross steps followed by spins in both directions before class. If anyone is interested, visit Skippy Blair's site and download "walk like a dancer" to start.
https://www.swingworld.com/dance-articles.html


I’ll definitely take a look at this. One of the instructors I sometimes work with at times calls the deck pad “our dance floor”. I’ve always liked that analogy. And those that are really good on the board can look like they are dancing. Looks so graceful.

I’m probably too old and beat up to ever get there, but it doesn’t mean I’m not going to keep trying  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Area 10 on August 23, 2018, 04:33:53 PM
Ah, this makes me feel nostalgic- back from the time when rocker wasn’t a crime... and SUP was somehow more fun... lots of shuffling going on here, but some lovely drop-knee type longboard moves. Deceptively hard to do well on a bump, but very useful if you can. Could save you a lot of shuffling, or even cross-stepping.

https://youtu.be/UKk7RGqn9Lk
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: surfcowboy on August 23, 2018, 06:29:46 PM
I think folks are confused by the terms. With respect, crossing over and behind is not exactly the best way to describe it.

Assuming that using the front of your body as “over”or in front of, and behind as behind, here goes.

As a goofy, going to the nose, step back leg (left) over in front of right. Next step is left leg behind the right, and so on.

Assuming you get to the nose in stance, to go back, you bring the right leg back, stepping behind, then left leg back over the right.

Reverse for you regular footers. This is how I’ve seen every long boarder ever do it.

If you were bringing your front leg over in front of you that would seem to be nearly impossible or you are insanely flexible to keep in stance while you did. Glad you sorted it!
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: PonoBill on August 23, 2018, 08:55:13 PM
If you're regular foot going backward of course it's easier to cross your left foot behind your right. That's what you're supposed to do. I got a lesson in cross stepping from Jimmy Lewis about ten years ago and it made it so much easier to move around on my boards.

Starting from a surf stance, start cross-stepping forward by taking a half-step back with your front foot and put it across the board at right angles to the stringer with your weight centered between heel and toe. Then back foot across the toes, next foot across the heel, etc. The half step back at the beginning brings your back up straighter and centers your weight between your feet. Before you take the half step your weight will be mostly on your back foot. If you try to make that first long step with your weight on your back foot you'll upset the hell out of the board and won't get far. Stand up and try it right now and you'll see exactly what I mean. The way you start to cross step determines how smoothly it works.

If you're trying for the nose the half-step back will help stall the board a little which is exactly what you need to do.

To go backward, starting from a surf stance closer to the nose, bring your back foot forward a half step then bring your front foot behind your heel, next step in front, etc. Again, the half step forward centers your weight and actually lets you lighten the pressure on your front foot to start your stepping.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Quickbeam on August 24, 2018, 07:34:58 AM
O.K., thanks Surfcowboy and Ponobill. Sounds like I finally discovered what most were already aware of. I never did get any lessons on cross stepping, so on that I was self taught.

Something so simple, yet it makes such a difference. Lesson learned. As they say, better late than never.  :)

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: clinto on August 24, 2018, 08:23:13 AM
I find it more difficult going to the nose for some reason. I am a back foot dominant surfer so my balance is always weighted more to the rear which i think that plays a part in it. I can cross step back with no problem and feel like the board is sliding below me more than me walking back. If you watch longboarders that are really quick at getting to the nose and back, there is more of the board moving under them than them moving on the board. Its harder to do this on a large SUP of course. The  half step that pono mentioned is key. Once you have momentum and you are committed to cross stepping its flows much easier but getting started can easily through off your balance.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: eastbound on August 24, 2018, 10:30:55 AM
yep---forward backward? move the board under you, dont move you on the board
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Tom on August 24, 2018, 10:52:48 AM
Pono's half step back then forward makes a lot of sense. I'm looking forward to trying it. The best advice I got was from a friend who told me "its only walking forward and back". On land, practice walking with your shoulders facing forward and walking forward and back while keeping your feet on a center line.  Next, keep doing that but with your shoulders turned to the side. Nothing to it.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: connector14 on August 24, 2018, 03:12:23 PM
How about a video tutorial in slow motion from one of you guys that is proficient at it?
I am having a hard time visualizing it......Candice moves too fast!
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: supthecreek on August 24, 2018, 07:43:48 PM
How about a video tutorial in slow motion from one of you guys that is proficient at it?
I am having a hard time visualizing it......Candice moves too fast!

Just found this in my archives
Board: Classic Starboard Cruiser 12'6 (still have it)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFfFvTfBaJw
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: connector14 on August 24, 2018, 09:33:48 PM
Just strowling.......just plain very cool!  You make it look darn easy too!
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: NEplay on August 25, 2018, 07:20:51 AM
smoooooooove
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: surfinJ on August 25, 2018, 11:55:07 AM
Practice on land. Cross step along the curb while your walking. Really works.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: WhatsSUP on August 31, 2018, 05:18:44 AM
Definitely a work in progress for me but I'm getting there slowly but surely.....yesterday was super super super small ankle biters but still good practice to mess around in...here's a quickie short clip. 

https://youtu.be/63AvUT5tuCE

 8)
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: supthecreek on August 31, 2018, 05:34:21 AM
Whats^, you own that now!
The quick and crisp walk back is proof it's becoming natural to you!v 8)
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: surfinJ on August 31, 2018, 05:37:53 AM
I agree. Once we are going it is not so different than the longboarders.
Check this out and you will see that as creek says, you are on it.

https://vimeo.com/217242664
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: supnsurf on August 31, 2018, 08:49:37 AM
I practice on a longboard skateboard, really helps
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: WhatsSUP on August 31, 2018, 09:14:50 AM
Thanks Creek & J.  I'll get it wired...I've got a few dozen clips of moving up and back from the last several months that I like to study. I can especially see when I start cross stepping early or late - results are pretty much immediate.   :o  ...such a fine line and of course each wave is different.  I figured out kinda early on that starting forward at the end of a slight turn, even a little one, is key for me in that the board slows a bit and the tail sinks making for what appears to be one the perfect times to start moving up.  Also, I tend to move up somewhat slower and cautiously...not sure why - almost like walking a curb or balance beam and I'm trying to be sure footed.  Conversely, cross stepping back (for me) tends to feel pretty natural and I go it quite a bit quicker than going forward.  I don't really think about what I'm doing going back.  I plan to include this clip as one in a long series as part of a video I'm planning capturing my quest to the nose....still very much a work in progress.   
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: TallDude on August 31, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
I agree. Once we are going it is not so different than the longboarders.
Check this out and you will see that as creek says, you are on it.

https://vimeo.com/217242664
Notice he's wearing a calf leash the whole time. The Colapinto's are a big San Clemente surf family.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: surfinJ on August 31, 2018, 02:29:31 PM
I so loved Corey’s clip that I watched it a bunch of times and had not even noticed the leash.

I tend to move up somewhat slower and cautiously...not sure why - almost like walking a curb or balance beam and I'm trying to be sure footed.  Conversely, cross stepping back (for me) tends to feel pretty natural and I go it quite a bit quicker than going forward.....
...a work in progress.   

Never thought about the details but you right, that’s how it is. I guess moving up is when we are trimming the board into a section, going up the stringer like a tightrope, move to the nose but don’t rock the ship.  Going back is towards the more stable tail area, moving quickly a little side to side rock is not a problem.

Looking forward to your final work. The short bit was enjoyable to watch.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: WhatsSUP on August 31, 2018, 03:48:57 PM
That's J.....I thought about putting the mini-video snippet in the "favorite SUP  move" thread as walkin up and back is mine, but knew I'd get some additional helpful hints and tips for which I enjoyed reading....I'm a sponge and eat up info.  The vid you posted of Sano Sunshine is just insane!!!!  I too didn't even notice the calf leash until TD mentioned it.  I LOVE the move he makes on the every first wave....full on turn from the nose!  And I must say my all time favorite cross-step move is what he does at min 1:39-1:41 (the back cross-step turn - sooooooo stylish... Friggin-A!
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: PonoBill on September 01, 2018, 06:02:51 PM
I was cross stepping on my downwinder today, not something I normally do, but I felt like it, so I did. Not lonly was it fun, but it made me pay more attention to reading the swell. It rocked. Doesn't do much for the rudder, I walked all over it, but even if it was just for fun it was good. I almost got to the nose at Mitchell Point. The nose on a 17' bullet V2 is a very loooong seven steps. Now I need to wax the board. I got off the pad at the front and couldn't get back--no traction.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: connector14 on September 03, 2018, 02:36:13 PM
Petty impressive......I can't even walk on dry land like Cory in that video :).........
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: all~wet on September 03, 2018, 03:15:27 PM
Other-worldly-footwork... dancing on water.

https://vimeo.com/124277188 (https://vimeo.com/124277188)
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: PonoBill on September 03, 2018, 03:23:40 PM
Lovely. Gave some interesting ideas too. My cutbacks are weak, and I thought leaning into the paddle would tighten them up, but it doesn't all that much. I notice his tight cutbacks are done with both feet on the rail, or at least back foot hard on the rail, front foot somewhere between the stringer and the rail. I tend to keep my front foot planted. Hmm.

I also like that crossed up turn he does a few times. I think I can use both of them. we'll see.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: supthecreek on September 03, 2018, 05:56:52 PM
Bravo!

His footwork is impressive
and:
it's his creative lines and how to draw them that is standout.

Very interesting surfing mind.... a path less traveled, makes for memorable surfing!
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: all~wet on September 03, 2018, 08:13:21 PM
Very true Creek. And his footwork is not only graceful/artful, but always with purpose. He's never stalled, low on the shoulder... always in a critical section that generates power on the wave- either right in the pocket or riding a high line which enables the constant speed and in turn- nimble turns.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Bean on September 03, 2018, 09:26:54 PM
Unconventional logging for sure, mix of modern performance and traditional long boarding.

Here is another unconventional but talented logger.

https://youtu.be/GDzMdtobPsA
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: rbgar on November 26, 2018, 12:22:13 PM
https://youtu.be/hgYM4VzJlX4

check out this stuff!
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: mrbig on November 26, 2018, 02:17:21 PM
I assume that the LB forum lads have been following the Longboard Event in China.

Amazing stuff. Some now on U Tube I suspect..
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: supsean on November 26, 2018, 03:31:58 PM
I love the Jackson Close video. If I only could fit a 10' longboard in my apartment... Instead, my 9' limit is going to keep me off of the nose until I get a lot better...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lisozy-v-As

ps., any recommendations for a sub 10' longboard that could float a 85kg beginner/intermediate?   
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: mrbig on November 26, 2018, 04:21:24 PM
There are a number of nine footers, but most are narrow and low on liters. 9' x 28" x 105. Not for beginners, or the balance challenged.

One that I am aware of is the Hobie Colin M. which is 9' x 30" with 138 liters. Bout the same as your AW as far as liters. Try to find one, or another board that is narrower than your All-Wave.

Flotation wise you would be fine. Width probably, but a trial of some kind is always best.

Unless of course you wish to compete in the group who have owned billions and billions of boards..

No Hobie affiliation BTW!
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: PonoBill on November 26, 2018, 04:25:04 PM
Nice video. I notice that he rarely stalls the board before he goes to the nose, so his rides are short, but he's a very dynamic surfer, so long noserides aren't really what he's aiming for.

I enjoy trying to noseride my hollow KuNalu. It's a single fin 12'2" X 25.5"  Takes a bit of practice to get my sea legs, but I've done southside downwinders on it without falling, which is better than I generally do on my 17'X26" Bullet V2. It's a blast in the surf, and since it turns mostly from the tail the nose is a long way away. I generally get to it in three steps. Back to the tail to stall, forward to the middle to see how everything feels, one step back to keep the stall rolling then five steps forward to get to the nose--or almost to the nose. I've never really got to the nose and hung out, but I get close and I don't have to run back immediately.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: mrbig on November 26, 2018, 04:41:00 PM
Jackson and the Dogman!

Cool vid. Sweet as..
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: supsean on November 27, 2018, 02:10:56 PM
There are a number of nine footers, but most are narrow and low on liters. 9' x 28" x 105. Not for beginners, or the balance challenged.

One that I am aware of is the Hobie Colin M. which is 9' x 30" with 138 liters. Bout the same as your AW as far as liters. Try to find one, or another board that is narrower than your All-Wave.

Flotation wise you would be fine. Width probably, but a trial of some kind is always best.

Unless of course you wish to compete in the group who have owned billions and billions of boards..

No Hobie affiliation BTW!

Thanks!  How about the New Deal that you ride? at 9'6" it would fit in my foyer.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Dusk Patrol on November 27, 2018, 02:36:42 PM
^ I can confirm the 9'6 New Deal is great, flotation and otherwise, for 85 kgs.  It's a fast board (from my intermediate skills  perspective). I also like the 32" width. But if you're looking to go narrower, Blue Planet has a 9x29 Namotu at 138L.  (They also offer a narrower 9x27.5 Nose Performer.)       
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: mrbig on November 27, 2018, 04:44:04 PM
Aha! Thought you were limited to 9'!

My New Deal is 9'6" x 31". Their 10 footers are narrow - the widest being 29".

The tails on the New Deals are elliptical which are not as stable as a squash or diamond. However, in larger Hurricane and Snowecane swells it carves amazingly well.

If 31" wide works for you, and 9'6" ain't too long it is an awesome board.

YMMV!
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Dusk Patrol on November 27, 2018, 05:16:33 PM
oops I stand corrected on the width, yes 31" ...  I just think of it as cushy wide...  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: PonoBill on November 27, 2018, 06:52:31 PM
These days if I wanted a noserider I'd talk to Jimmy Lewis. I'd probably wind up with something custom, because I'm a heavy buggah, but maybe not. Jimmy lives on the nose. Full respect to the Bohne's and the Brown Blur, but noseriding on a SUP = Jimmy Lewis.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: mrbig on November 28, 2018, 07:06:04 AM
Nose riding speciality board - Black and Blue definitely a good choice. Only available as a 10 footers though.
 
His new destroyer looks like a great choice as an all arounder - better than the striker according to the AU distributor.

Infinity a better choice for performance long boarding. Like the Deep that Jackson was riding and some of the other Aussie sleds.

Their contest scene is interesting and leads to some great surfing and interesting designs.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Bean on November 28, 2018, 08:22:04 AM
Nose riding speciality board - Black and Blue definitely a good choice. Only available as a 10 footers though.
 
His new destroyer looks like a great choice as an all arounder - better than the striker according to the AU distributor.

Infinity a better choice for performance long boarding. Like the Deep that Jackson was riding and some of the other Aussie sleds.

Their contest scene is interesting and leads to some great surfing and interesting designs.

Hey Biggie, the JL B&B Machine is actually available in three sizes, 9’6″x28.5″x3.5″ (117L), 9’9″x30″x4″ (136L) and 10’1″x31″x4.25″ (164L).  Each size also can be ordered with a concave or flat nose.

I ride the 9'6" with a concave nose. 

As you know, the differences between a dedicated noserider and a performance longboard are not insignificant. The 50/50 rails, large single, and tail kick all contribute to keep the tail down for trips to the nose.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: supsean on November 28, 2018, 09:41:49 AM


I ride the 9'6" with a concave nose. 

As you know, the differences between a dedicated noserider and a performance longboard are not insignificant. The 50/50 rails, large single, and tail kick all contribute to keep the tail down for trips to the nose.

Great posting Bean. I'm really starting to understand shape and performance from it.  I have a couple of questions, though...

Why a concave nose?

What are the disadvantages of a performance SUP?  Obviously a large single could be used in a 3-fin box, so that is the same in both boards. How about the 50/50 rails? What is the advantage to those over the short-board rails of the New Deal for instance? And should it have more or less tail kick for nose riding?

Watching Dave surf his 9' looks like fun. He gets to the nose quite easily, but he was born on a surfboard, so I know he could probably surf on a kitchen table and get to the nose...!

https://vimeo.com/243981710
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: mrbig on November 28, 2018, 10:03:01 AM
Thanks for update Bean!
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: mrbig on November 28, 2018, 10:18:34 AM
Here's some good info..
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Bean on November 28, 2018, 10:21:40 AM
Quote from: supsean link=topic=33931.msg389677#msg389677
Why a concave nose?

What are the disadvantages of a performance SUP?  Obviously a large single could be used in a 3-fin box, so that is the same in both boards. How about the 50/50 rails? What is the advantage to those over the short-board rails of the New Deal for instance? And should it have more or less tail kick for nose riding?

A concave nose increases the planing area without having to increase the width and provides more lift.  One drawback is it does create more drag, but at certain breaks more drag and lower speeds actually help.

Down rails/hard rails, etc. allow the water to release and allows the board to plane.  50/50 or round rails allow the water to wrap around the board help hold it in the pocket.  A true nose rider is more like a submarine than  a surface vessel.

Tail kick naturally slows the noserider down but is also important for generating good pivot turns off the tail.

The new deal is set up as a performance longboard, fast and agile, vertical surfing.  And, I want one!
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: Bean on November 28, 2018, 10:33:34 AM
The state of art noseriding:
(the pro's tape the board at the 12" mark to keep track of time spent on the nose, and at the 24" mark for the Jr.'s and am's)
https://youtu.be/4c6LZNBNbBo
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: JEG on November 28, 2018, 12:57:49 PM
that's so much fun!
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: kwhilden on November 28, 2018, 02:53:46 PM

Great posting Bean. I'm really starting to understand shape and performance from it.  I have a couple of questions, though...

Why a concave nose?

What are the disadvantages of a performance SUP?  Obviously a large single could be used in a 3-fin box, so that is the same in both boards. How about the 50/50 rails? What is the advantage to those over the short-board rails of the New Deal for instance? And should it have more or less tail kick for nose riding?

Watching Dave surf his 9' looks like fun. He gets to the nose quite easily, but he was born on a surfboard, so I know he could probably surf on a kitchen table and get to the nose...!

https://vimeo.com/243981710

I saw this video earlier in the year, and immediately ordered a New Deal.  I chose a custom board to get my perfect dims, and because I wanted it built in ecoboard construction by Earth Technologies.  I posted a photo here: https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,34228.0.html

Dims I ordered are 9'6 x 29" x 4.5" 130 liters. I absolutely love the board, and it's perfect for me at 230 lbs.

Regarding your questions.  This board is a really good board for learning how to noseride.  I am much more of a performance SUP surfer, but I can get to the nose easily and it's super stable on the nose.  Almost too stable, because it's hard to steer from the nose.

The New Deal blends the best of both design styles. In terms of performance, it rips turns from the tail, can pump for speed from middle of the board, and catches waves easily. I'm personally a lot more interested in turning and surfing waves from a performance perspective, and I'm mostly surfing beachbreak where speed and maneuverability are a priority. Occasionally a noseride section shows up, and I love it, but most of the time I need speed and love carving turns.

If the New Deal were made into a better noserider, it would lose the performance characteristics.  50/50 rails are slow, but make it easier to steer a board from the nose. Extreme tail-kick rocker is slow, but creates lift when perched on the nose. All of these compromises are good if you're really trying to optimize tip-time at the expense of all-around performance surfing.

The New Deal actually has a lot of rocker, but it's distributed throughout the board.  This enhances noseriding a fair bit, while also making it more maneuverable on a wave. The traction pad also helps with noseriding because it approximates tail-kick rocker to some extent. The shape's rails are also kind of thin, which makes it easier to sink a rail for a nice bottom turn and helps noseriding.

My take is that the New Deal is really user friendly for surfing in all conditions, and more than capable of noseriding when a good noseriding section appears. If you're not already good at noseriding, the New Deal is perfect for starting to learn.  When you're good at noseriding, you can get a board that is designed only for that, if that's what you love and you live near appropriate waves.





Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: supsean on November 29, 2018, 09:45:55 AM

I saw this video earlier in the year, and immediately ordered a New Deal.  I chose a custom board to get my perfect dims, and because I wanted it built in ecoboard construction by Earth Technologies.  I posted a photo here: https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,34228.0.html

Dims I ordered are 9'6 x 29" x 4.5" 130 liters. I absolutely love the board, and it's perfect for me at 230 lbs.

Regarding your questions.  This board is a really good board for learning how to noseride.  I am much more of a performance SUP surfer, but I can get to the nose easily and it's super stable on the nose.  Almost too stable, because it's hard to steer from the nose.

The New Deal blends the best of both design styles. In terms of performance, it rips turns from the tail, can pump for speed from middle of the board, and catches waves easily. I'm personally a lot more interested in turning and surfing waves from a performance perspective, and I'm mostly surfing beachbreak where speed and maneuverability are a priority. Occasionally a noseride section shows up, and I love it, but most of the time I need speed and love carving turns.

If the New Deal were made into a better noserider, it would lose the performance characteristics.  50/50 rails are slow, but make it easier to steer a board from the nose. Extreme tail-kick rocker is slow, but creates lift when perched on the nose. All of these compromises are good if you're really trying to optimize tip-time at the expense of all-around performance surfing.

The New Deal actually has a lot of rocker, but it's distributed throughout the board.  This enhances noseriding a fair bit, while also making it more maneuverable on a wave. The traction pad also helps with noseriding because it approximates tail-kick rocker to some extent. The shape's rails are also kind of thin, which makes it easier to sink a rail for a nice bottom turn and helps noseriding.

My take is that the New Deal is really user friendly for surfing in all conditions, and more than capable of noseriding when a good noseriding section appears. If you're not already good at noseriding, the New Deal is perfect for starting to learn.  When you're good at noseriding, you can get a board that is designed only for that, if that's what you love and you live near appropriate waves.

Wow. That is exactly the board dims I proposed to Dave in an email to see if he thought it was possible. Thanks for the explanation of the shape. What you are describing is exactly the kind of surfing I try to do. I am often on a beach break in not so great waves, looking for a fairly stable platform from which to improve my turns, get into waves early, move up and down the board towards the nose, and make sure I can fit the sucker back into my apartment. I have to wait a bit before I buy, but at least I know it is possible...
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: kwhilden on November 29, 2018, 10:28:46 AM
Supsean,

It sounds like the New Deal is perfect for you. If you make it to the Los Angeles area, hit me up and you can paddle out on mine. Also, ask for Ecoboard construction, because why not get a board that's more sustainable with a reduced ocean footprint...
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: supsean on November 29, 2018, 12:41:06 PM
Supsean,

It sounds like the New Deal is perfect for you. If you make it to the Los Angeles area, hit me up and you can paddle out on mine. Also, ask for Ecoboard construction, because why not get a board that's more sustainable with a reduced ocean footprint...

Thanks! I will if I can get out of the northeast. . . How much more was the Ecoboard?
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: kwhilden on November 29, 2018, 01:14:44 PM
You better have that conversation with Dave Boehne. My board went super high end with vacuum bagging and cedar veneer, so can't answer any question on price difference. On a big SUP, I'm sold on making boards as light as possible for performance. Hence vacuum bagging, etc... Something to consider based on your budget.
Title: Re: Cross Stepping
Post by: mrbig on December 01, 2018, 04:00:06 PM
Longboard Final! Now T. Jenson and H. Ingleby.

CROSS Stepping.. Ripping..
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