Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Downwind and Racing => Topic started by: Luc Benac on June 24, 2018, 03:05:32 PM
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Seems that there are a few kicking around some even approved by Burchas :-)
1) SIC Bayonet
2) Infinity Downtown
3) Jimmy Lewis Rail
4) Bullet V2
I am wondering if these provide a higher fun factor than the all around boards that can downwind in under 25 knots flatwinder, downbreezer and light downwind?
1) Bark Vapor Ghost
2) SIC RS
3) Naish Maliko
And that is without going into clogs.
I do like the easy life of having a go to board like the Vapor that will not let you down regardless of the conditions.
When the summer comes I am always wondering if I could get a few more bumps in light conditions by having a newer generation light downwind board.
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Outside of the Vapor, I tried all listed boards in downwind/downbreeze settings.
Bayonet 14 is first on my list for fun factor on slow wind conditions.
Maliko is the all-around winner for fun factor and it can downwind anywhere.
But for really light conditions, the unlimited are the best fun I have ever had,
Bayonet 17 was so much fun, so is my own 16. Once I get them up to speed
they keep on giving.
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That is an even bigger budget :P. not going to see one of these used fro a long time.
Maybe if we get a Canadian distributor for SIC and 17.1 board can lend safely here.
What you have not tried the Vapor!!! You have been seriously remiss here.
I still try to get my ACe-GT out but for shuttle it is a little bit of a problem...
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What you have not tried the Vapor!!! You have been seriously remiss here.
I hear it's all Bark and no bite ;D But who knows, I might hit you up one of these days
just to right that wrong.
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What you have not tried the Vapor!!! You have been seriously remiss here.
I hear it's all Bark and no bite ;D But who knows, I might hit you up one of these days
just to right that wrong.
It is not an extreme board by a very long shot. It is not the fastest board. It is not the lightest board. It is not the sexiest board. But it is the most comfortable board in short side chop and washing machine conditions.
The only two things that prevent it from being the perfect board are IMO:
1) Could be a bit faster on "flat"
2) Could catch bumps on sub-par conditions a little bit easier
If I could have a "fast" Vapor for these conditions and a normal Vapor taking over when it is windier, I would be just fine. ANd then again not sure it is worth scratching your head about which board to take.
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I’m not sure I’d call the Vapor an all-rounder, particularly, because most all-rounders are actually a bit skewed towards the flat (or inland) water market, whereas the Vapor really is an ocean board. I kinda see it as in the same category as a Bullet V2.
You’ve asked about downwinding fun. That’s a tricky one, because what is fun is so different from person to person. It’s easier to say what is fastest, but what is fastest is IMO rarely the most fun, once you are past the “absolutely awful” category. But if you are a competitive type then all you will care about is how fast you can average, even if the experience is so unpleasant and difficult that it’s like firing nails into your own genitalia while at full stretch with a nail gun. One-handed and eyes closed.
So you’d need to define what you mean by fun. I find a board fun if it can get me into bumps easily and safely, and allow me to “surf” the bumps. I quite like using a bit of footwork rather than standing bolt still in the same spot, but I don’t want to have to dance around like a madman on amphetamine. I also find fun a board I can trust to cope with pretty much anything that Mother Nature can throw at me: I don’t want to find myself stranded 2 miles offshore completely unable to make headway against a 30-knot crosswind. I live in a place with strong and unpredictable winds. I don’t want a board that is dog slow, but being fast downwind for me is often about control, early planing, and ease of use. I don’t race and I’m not a hyper-fit kid, so I am fastest on a board that makes my life easier, not the board that could theoretically be faster with Kai Lenny on it.
The lighter and smaller the winds get, the more you can use boards that approximate flat water ones and still have fun, if you are like me. But personally I nearly always prefer the paddling experience of the DW-oriented boards, even if I’m going a fraction slower. I also like stability, and stability counts more for me in terms of speed and control than a lot of other things. But then this is probably because I’m a top-heavy wobbly old geezer. I want a stable platform from which to power into bumps. But if you are a “cyclist’s build” and are young then you’ll probably want the narrowest board you can use, and reducing drag is the principal way for you to be fast.
So it’s very hard to say what will be “more fun” for someone else. And that’s even before you consider how different boards suit different conditions, quite apart from wind speed.
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^ exactly.
I like planing, carving and a board that can also go fast on flat since I want a quiver of one. Also, of course, a board that excels in chop and goes faster than others upwind. JL Rail is perfection for that.
That comment on 17'ers be awesome in light DW I found odd. I presume it is meant in a place with a big swell as well.
Otherwise i find them far too sticky and heavy to be any good in a light DW. They come into their own one conditions get good enough to keep them going once they actually have lift off.
Proof everything is different for different people.
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but being fast downwind for me is often about control, early planing, and ease of use. I don’t race and I’m not a hyper-fit kid, so I am fastest on a board that makes my life easier, not the board that could theoretically be faster with Kai Lenny on it.
Same idea. I am curious to see if these new generation DW board:
1) SIC Bayonet
2) Infinity Downtown
3) Jimmy Lewis Rail
or Allwater boards
2) SIC RS
3) Naish Maliko
would be able to pick-up and link bumps in light conditions (15 knots) and weak chop - faster and easier than the Vapor.
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Do you windsurf and understand windsurf board subtleties?
I find lightwind quick board planing to be very similar regarding tail shape between lightwind windsurfs and DW SUP's.
in light wind DW:
- The Bullet remains one of the quickest to plane boards in light wind DW. It is straight underneath from midway to back. But it isnt the funnest to carve and slaps too much going upwind.
- The Maliko surprisingly I find a bit sticky for light DW. It’s a great allround raceboard and nice in chop but light DW not as quick up on a plane as I expected. For deep short waves the very straight nose needs a very skilled rider. The very straight tail means it is less of a carver. More of a walk to the back, sink and twist turner.
- The Rail, with it’s constant curve, is a dream to carve. But needs a bit more wind and waves to jump up on a plane. If you know how to help a board get up on a plane every light board, like this it becomes much easier. It is as light as a Maliko and a very esthetic shape. The sharp sleek nose is, IMO, the best for upwind chop riding. Which is what you’d be doing on a up/down in lightish wind where a dropoff is hardly worth it. Not as fast as the Maliko on flats but much much faster than other DW boards like a bullet. It's light weight ,v good flat water speed, how it excels in chop especially upwind, and super fun on DW is an ideal compromise for me.
- Bigchucky high siderails are hard to bury to carve. I like the look of the Bayonette (haven’t ridden yet) but suspect I won’t like the high corky nature of it. I’m very much an aficionado of low decks even if 4-5 months of the year the water I ride in is crazy cold.
- the utrawide tail of the RS might make it a quick planer. I'm guessing from the channels and the outline not so much of a real carver. Love the low deck.
Personally I like a kick in the tail for fun turning when things get going. But basically the less kick you got the quicker a board jumps up onto a plane. Where on that trade-off you will find nirvana is very much up to you, your conditions, your nimbleness and your weight and power.
Your Vapor must keep your feet warm. I imagine the Bayonette would have that advantage too.
The new boards you list all sound good. Each has it's own character. Some I can tell without having tried yet. Organize a trip where you can try them all out.
So it’s all going to depend on what you’re looking for and how your boardhandling is. For example I’m not in agreement with some of Burkas board impressions. And I’m not surprised. I have the same differences with other riders vis a vis ski and bike preferences. Depends so much on how you like to ride.
C’est la vie.
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I am not desperate to get a new board (unless I can sell my flat water board :-) ) then they could be $ for a new board.
During the summer we flatwind, downbreeze and on a good day downwind in our inlet. The thermal system sometime does not get up to speed and leave us having to paddle our heart out to get on a small bumps or link any. At that stage, it is not really so much about carving as of getting a board early as possible on a bump and keeping a board "planning" to link.
I was wondering if DW boards with higher volume and sharpish rails might help there?
I should be able to try a Rail and a Bullet V2 side-by-side with the Vapor (but the Bullet V2 is likely very close from teh Vapor).
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For keeping a board "planning" to link: the trick, IMO, is in the steering. I like a sharp rail to carve it. Our bigger conditions are also irregular so it's all about placing the board well. And that is where the fun is at.
For that I prefer a pointy nose board. I find the bigger wider noses, once they touch the water, can become sticky if at lower speeds and can pull you off the plane. The round nose boards are forgiving in bigger woo-hoo-I’m-just-hanging-on conditions. When angling down a wave the pointy boards are easier for me.
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In my experience the Fanatic Falcon absolutely destroys the SIC in anything less than perfect epic conditions. The Fanatic captures every shape, size, and angle of ocean energy SO easy, without needing strong winds, hard paddling, or much up-and-back footwork. It's also very resistant to ugly cross chop, sub-optimal wind angles, small and mixed bump sizes, etc. Stupidly easy board that converts marginal or frustrating conditions into a playground. I finish the marginal conditions downwinder on my Fanatic with a smile on my face, then I get comfy and wait 20 minutes for my buddy on the SIC or AllStar to finish, grumpy and cursing. I wouldn't call the Fanatic a clog since it has a flat deck.
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I am going to paddle side by side a JL Rail and my Vapor - about the same volume.
It might be that my Vapor is already as good as it gets on light conditions and I should not look at greener pastures that do not make any difference after all.
It is sure great when there is more wind.
Fundamentally I like boards low on the water like the Vapor or dugout. Each time I got up an All Star I simply hated the volume and high position over the water.
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Has anyone on the Coast or Island tested the Canadian brand, Kahuna Molokai DW?
The shape is somewhat like a Bullet and the deck is slightly cut in. It seems like it could be an option for these mixed conditions. 14 X 27.5" but the volume and weight are all over the map from the different retailers. Kahuna is now stating it is 30 pounds + or - 10%. I have lifted one off the stand at a shop in Nelson and it was definitely well below 30 pounds, and some retailers have it listed as 26 pounds, which seems about right. I'm going to try and take it for a quick paddle in the near future.
I don't know anything about the brand other than it being Canadian, with an expanded line up these days.
2499.00 for the Molokai includes a board bag, paddle and leash. Valhalla Pure in Nanaimo has it on sale for 1990.00. In a market where board prices are ridiculously over inflated, and set to get even more expensive, this is a really good deal for a sub 30 pound DW board. Of course the shape has to work, and the quality needs to be there. It passed the initial eye ball test anyways ;)
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No idea where they have their boards made. If it prove to be a good design, it is quite nice to have a local brand.
Not sure why they would sell a paddle with the board but a fitted bag is always nice. If you get it, we can try it DW in Howe Sound this summer :-)
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It seems all of the Kahuna touring boards are package deals that includes a paddle, board bag, and leash, so this has extended to their DW offerings as well. You have the option of carbon adjustable or fixed length for paddles with the Molokai. I would personally want the price to be lower and not have an included paddle or board bag, but nice to have a fitted board bag.
The fin that comes with the board is huge, so most that are serious about paddling would swap it out. Not sure where they are made either, but some work is contracted out in the sea to sky corridor. At these prices, I would think an asian connection, but I have no idea.
A dedicated DW board wasn't on my radar, but it would be fun to do some runs out there this summer.
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Fundamentally I like boards low on the water like the Vapor or dugout. Each time I got up an All Star I simply hated the volume and high position over the water.
In that case I don't think you'll like the Bayonet nor the Downtown for that matter.
I'm like you in that regard, I like to be close to the water. I like the Bayonet simply because
of its explosive nature, other than that I don't like the feel of the board but it's just
so capable that it is hard to see beyond that.
when conditions becomes light all of a sudden it looks a lot more appealing. I would not buy it though.
As for the unlimited boards, I found that in lighter conditions on rivers and bays I usually ride,
these boards deliver the most amount of fun. You'll still have to paddle your heart out every now
and again, but once these board are up to speed, I found it's just a lot easier to keep the glide
going and catch and link way more bumps.
I don't think it's the volume that plays the dominant role but rather the length, my 16'
board is only 251 Liter and I have a lot of fun with it in these conditions.
I think ocean conditions the volume will play a bigger role as my low volume become a lot
more sticky and requires perfect timing and skills to make the board sing, much easier
to control though. But that is just my experience, I'm sure some here have different
one than mine :)
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If we are talking about “ripple-riding” style of downbreezing, with the tiniest of bumps and only the lightest breeze behind you, then the Vapor is surprisingly fast. But the king of the ones I’ve tried for that is the RS. It picks up absolutely anything - even little surges you can hardly see. I think that the boards with fat butts tend to do this well since they lift and angle with even the slightest bump. Of course this is also their Achilles heel when conditions get big. With low volume tails you have to stand quite far forward to ripple-ride, and there’s a point at which the nose rocker can start working against you if you do that and have a Bullet V1 (surf-style) type nose. So, high-volume butts, fairly flat rocker, and volume in the nose tends to win the day for ripple-riding IMO. But as I say, I am talking about ripple-riding here, not even qualifying as downbreezing, really.
And yes, a low volume UL can still be great in downbreezing conditions. My 16x26 is only about 230L I think - around 4.5” thick, and weighs less than 30lbs. My feet are only slightly above water level. I don’t generally like boards where you stand high above the water. I don’t want any more board under me than I absolutely need. I can carve and steer much better with thin rails, and stability and dealing with crosswinds is much better too. My 16 has a huge amount of rocker but picks up even small swells well, without much effort - far easier in eg. 15 knots than most 14ft race boards, which tend to stick to the water. You need planing surface for easy planing.
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Then it looks like I should try to replace my Whiplash with a RS and have both a fast flat water board and the best flatwinding, ripple-riding board.....
It looks like that would be the way to improve even more on the Vapor.
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I haven’t met anyone yet who has tried the RS for that and hasn’t liked it. The only criticism I’ve heard is that the top deck in front of where you stand is unlikely to take a beating. But it’s a light board, and pretty much any light production board will ding if you slash it with a paddle or similar in an unreinforced area. If it was a full PVC wrap or double carbon I guess it would weigh/cost more.
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I wish we will start to see some around here and I can try one.
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In my experience the Fanatic Falcon absolutely destroys the SIC in anything less than perfect epic conditions. The Fanatic captures every shape, size, and angle of ocean energy SO easy, without needing strong winds, hard paddling, or much up-and-back footwork. It's also very resistant to ugly cross chop, sub-optimal wind angles, small and mixed bump sizes, etc. Stupidly easy board that converts marginal or frustrating conditions into a playground. I finish the marginal conditions downwinder on my Fanatic with a smile on my face, then I get comfy and wait 20 minutes for my buddy on the SIC or AllStar to finish, grumpy and cursing. I wouldn't call the Fanatic a clog since it has a flat deck.
This years Fanatic allwater board has lost it's boof and is looking sleek from the side. I noticed Arthur Arutkin used the Allwater board in the last few races. Including Bilbao (river).
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I wish we will start to see some around here and I can try one.
Aren't we all ;)
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For light downwinders, I'm a great fan of the clog, and in particular the Starboard Ace 14 x 27. Just so much more responsive fast and fun than my SIC Bullet 14 V1, or Blue Planet Bump Rider 14 or the SIC F16v1... but when winds get above 25 knots the Ace gets a little squirly and I'd rather be on on any of the other 3 boards.... The Bump Rider at the lower end, and then the V1 and F16 for the higher end.
Light winds on the Ace...
https://youtu.be/DWWVLllY4jI
Strong winds on the Ace
https://youtu.be/8CPrkRyubbo
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I wish we will start to see some around here and I can try one.
Aren't we all ;)
The clever thing that Mark Raaphorst has done with the SIC RS as far as ripple-riding or flatwinding is concerned is that the underside of the nose of the RS is flat. In other words it is a proper planing surface. Anyone who has tried ripple-riding downwind on a displacement bow board will know that the round surfaces up front really suck in terms of getting on a plane. The flat underside/rounded rails combination also occurs to a degree on the Ace too, which is why the Ace is pretty good for flat-winding too. But the narrow tail of the Ace means that as the bump creeps up behind you, the tail doesn’t get quite as lifted as on a board like the RS (or Vapor), so it’s a little bit more reluctant to jump on a plane when conditions are truly tiny. Take a look at the nose of the RS in detail. It’s quite an unusual combination of surfaces for a SUP. But when you think it through it makes perfect sense, and the board handles pretty much exactly like you’d expect it to, when you also consider the hard rails at the tail and the high volume tail as well. Big tail to get the board tipping forward early, flat surface on the nose to help it plane at the earliest possible opportunity = take-off on the lightest of DW conditions.
But, as I say, that big butt becomes its Achilles heel when conditions get bigger because in combination with the fairly flat rocker it means a lot of footwork is required to prevent pearling and also to be in the right spot for take-off. So for proper downwinding there are easier boards available.
One upside of that big volume butt/hard rails at tail though is that it surfs quite nicely from the tail. So if you are coming into shore on your DWer and there are waves inshore, you’ll be fine - just get your back foot over the finbox and away you go, easy-peasy lemon squeezy.
I suspect that one reason (in addition to the flex, and the lack of hard rails for water release) why inflatables tend to suck for early planing downwinding is because the dimpled material they are made of does not provide a *really* flat surface for planing. It kinda sticks to the water. If you want to plane (or semi-plane or surge or whatever it is called when a board gets carried along with a bump - please let’s not resurrect that “is-it-or-isn’t-it-planing” interminable argument) you kinda need the JL M14 type approach of flat planing bottom and hard edges up front (hard rails on the nose were first seen on a SUP on the Mk1 Naish Glide 12) but as my custom 16 shows (and the Bullet, to a degree) actually you don’t have to go quite so crazy with the hardness of the rails at the nose of the board - as long as the bottom is fairly flat there you can have fairly rounded rails up front and still get early planing - and so we are back to the RS again.
For these reasons, if you started to design from scratch a board specifically for the very lightest of downbreezing conditions, I think you’d probably end up with something that looks pretty much like the RS.
https://youtu.be/ZTLBuE9GZs0
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But, as I say, that big butt becomes its Achilles heel when conditions get bigger because in combination with the fairly flat rocker it means a lot of footwork is required to prevent pearling and also to be in the right spot for take-off. So for proper downwinding there are easier boards available.
Talking about rocker you might want to consider the differences between the RS models in
terms of rocker line. Specifically the RS 14x23 where the rocker is quite more pronounced.
I'm pretty sure that's not by chance. If there is one thing that Mark understand better than
most, in terms of downwind, is rocker. One can speculate that the 14x23 was designed with
the pros in mind and therefor given a more healthy downwind chops, but most consumers are
not even aware of this fact.
It's quite the opposite approach to other brands who chose to put more nose rocker in the
wider models so they can market it as more "downwind compatible" for the regular Joes who
just want to have one board.
Talking to Mark made me realize how much importance he puts on getting the rocker right.
I believe that's what makes the Bayonet a superior downwind board to the Downtown.
That's also what makes the RS 14x23 a good performer in downwind conditions when used
by a capable rider.
I got the chance to ride the RS 23 in a decent downwind settings and though this board is
quite undersized for my 180 ass in these conditions, I could recognize how capable it was,
especially when used by the capable 145LBS rider I went with.
So that's one other thing for you to consider Luc, in the off-chance you were looking at the 23 ;)
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Yeah, that’s a very good point, Burchas.
After Seychelle’s post-race comments in Bilbao, where she said that although she had an advantage over Olivia Piana in the rough sections (when Olivia actually fell and lost quite a lot of ground), who was on a 21, she felt the disadvantage of having a 23” wide board at the end in the flats, I expect we will see a 21” wide RS soon.
My local retailer said that the 26” wide one is still the biggest seller, though. It just shows how the elite racers and the general public are diverging, I guess.
Perhaps the extra rocker also helps maintain the waterline with a reduced volume? If you keep everything the same for a given weight but reduce width and therefore volume, the board is going to sit differently in the water, and not all the elites are complete flyweights.
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So that's one other thing for you to consider Luc, in the off-chance you were looking at the 23 ;)
Nope 26" or if drunk 24.5" but I do not need a 23" that is for sure :-)
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get a clog Luc Benac anything around 25" & 26" ;)
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Perhaps the extra rocker also helps maintain the waterline with a reduced volume?
For the heavier and smaller Joes like my self that's definitely an added benefit if nothing else.
At 180 I didn't have to trim the board differently. But I bet you'll be hard pressed to find an
elite guy over 165.
From all the women paddlers I know who bought the board only one opted for the 23, the
rest were fine with the 24.5.
I'm not surprised about the 26 being the best seller. One of the major retailers in the west
coast has posted he's going to convert all his Starboard 24.5 to the Larry Allison 4 fin system.
He could not move any of them, apparently the regular folks got smarter and going wider.
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get a clog Luc Benac anything around 25" & 26" ;)
The dude already has the perfect board in the ACE GT...
I guess he's concerned about damaging it during transport? I can't blame him.
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Yeah but for light DW a narrow clog like the Sunova 24 has gained traction up in HS. A buddy sold his SIC boards for this. Still getting used to the board but likes the efficiency and low drag of 24 vs 27. A couple others more elite also like Sunova as well. ;)
27 in light air is quite sluggish.
http://www.supracer.com/2018-lina-augaitis-joins-team-sunova/
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get a clog Luc Benac anything around 25" & 26" ;)
The dude already has the perfect board in the ACE GT...
I guess he's concerned about damaging it during transport? I can't blame him.
Yuval is right. I kind of feel bad showing up with our gang of friends with a dugout to shuttle and on top a long one.
As you know stacking of a clog is done at your own risk and is not the friendlier move for the rest.
Last thing I want is damage to a board that I would be hard-press to be able to replace and I really like that design.
When I simply get picked-up by my wife at the end of the run :-) then...... so Unlimited can turn into a somewhat solitary pleasure.
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Yeah, transport is one of the many shortcomings of clogs. And I don’t think that in real-world conditions the shortcomings of a clog are worth putting up with for the benefits, compared to the latest breed of race boards which have lowered deck but without going to full dugout. It’s mostly these lightly lowered deck boards we are seeing at the pointy end of races right now, not full-blown dugouts. The Starboard Sprint for instance is getting chosen by the elite paddlers over the Ace, even for the kind of conditions that the Ace is supposed to be ideal for.
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The 24 clog is a PITA a number of ways. The sharp sidewalls and sandpaper standing area etc. Even the number of DW falls it takes to get used to the board. But for light air it does scoot along very well. Insofar as loading it is what it is.
24.5 or 24 or 23 are fine for light air DW. But as noted before -> 26 seems to be the width that sells the most. Anything less becomes more and more niche.
Could be the flattened underside at the Sprint tail is making that narrow board ok with the elite racers. Would expect a flattish underside to be more stable. Maybe SB realized that it needed to make that board a bit more versatile. ;)
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Maybe SB realized that it needed to make that board a bit more versatile. ;)
They sure did. You're going to see a major shift in their design in the not so distant future...
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You already have a vapor. That board is outstanding at pretty much any non racing activity. That's the one board I won't sell.
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You already have a vapor. That board is outstanding at pretty much any non racing activity. That's the one board I won't sell.
Agreed. Neither of my Ace-GT nor my Bark Vapor would go for sale anytime soon.
It might just be a case of trying another board and coming back to the Vapor anyway.
Or just the lust for more boards that we all have from time to time and just need an excuse to flourish.
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But, as I say, that big butt becomes its Achilles heel when conditions get bigger because in combination with the fairly flat rocker it means a lot of footwork is required to prevent pearling and also to be in the right spot for take-off. So for proper downwinding there are easier boards available.
Talking about rocker you might want to consider the differences between the RS models in
terms of rocker line. Specifically the RS 14x23 where the rocker is quite more pronounced.
I'm pretty sure that's not by chance. If there is one thing that Mark understand better than
most, in terms of downwind, is rocker. One can speculate that the 14x23 was designed with
the pros in mind and therefor given a more healthy downwind chops, but most consumers are
not even aware of this fact.
It's quite the opposite approach to other brands who chose to put more nose rocker in the
wider models so they can market it as more "downwind compatible" for the regular Joes who
just want to have one board.
Talking to Mark made me realize how much importance he puts on getting the rocker right.
I believe that's what makes the Bayonet a superior downwind board to the Downtown.
That's also what makes the RS 14x23 a good performer in downwind conditions when used
by a capable rider.
I got the chance to ride the RS 23 in a decent downwind settings and though this board is
quite undersized for my 180 ass in these conditions, I could recognize how capable it was,
especially when used by the capable 145LBS rider I went with.
So that's one other thing for you to consider Luc, in the off-chance you were looking at the 23 ;)
Very interesting. Thanks for this insight.
I'll check it out once back on the water.
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It might also explain the longevity of his designs. Outside of the FX "faux-pas" the Bullet(s) and related X series have had quite a healthy lifespan.
Joe Bark is likely another one.
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get a clog Luc Benac anything around 25" & 26" ;)
The dude already has the perfect board in the ACE GT...
I guess he's concerned about damaging it during transport? I can't blame him.
I'm talking about the new generation clog board. I'm sure the GT is good enough but the new ones are a lot better.
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I'm talking about the new generation clog board. I'm sure the GT is good enough but the new ones are a lot better.
Not in my books :-)
*Lower sidewall
*Easy to go back onto (or I guess into)
*Low volume
*Reasonably manœuvrable
*Light weight
*Strong construction
If anything I would like a second one a little bit narrower and with a little bit less rocker in the nose that I would use for "flat" water.
Or failing that a custom Deep UL for similar purpose.
The new ones are just too deep, too narrow and too heavy for me.
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Yeah the new boards are sleeker and faster than the tubby up front 23.5 Ace design. But like most anything horses for courses. My preference would be the 24 Sunova vs 23.5 Ace if had to choose.
Trick is to stay in vs bail out. ;)
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get a clog Luc Benac anything around 25" & 26" ;)
The dude already has the perfect board in the ACE GT...
I guess he's concerned about damaging it during transport? I can't blame him.
I'm talking about the new generation clog board. I'm sure the GT is good enough but the new ones are a lot better.
Better for what?
The ownership and use downsides of clogs are very significant, and full-on clogs are mostly not being favoured by the top racers for international races. Michael Booth seems to be crushing just about everyone in every condition on a Starboard Sprint, not an Ace.
But I’m sure the ICF love them.
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Following on my original post, I had the opportunity on a used 2018 Naish Maliko 14x26 within my budget, and I took it :-)
This should cover me for flattish days and the few odd races. Still have my Vapor for DW and my Ace-GT for (Grand) Touring ;)
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Hey Luc. Congrats on the new board. I've never been on a Maliko, but I know they get very good reviews. I'm sure it will be a great board for you! :)
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Following on my original post, I had the opportunity on a used 2018 Naish Maliko 14x26 within my budget, and I took it :-)
This should cover me for flattish days and the few odd races. Still have my Vapor for DW and my Ace-GT for (Grand) Touring ;)
It’s a very nice board. It’s surprisingly twitchy for its width when you are side-on to wind and waves but otherwise I found it superb, and a lovely comfortable board to paddle, and usefully fast in flat water. The 2018 ones are built with the bulletproof PVC sandwich “who cares about carbon, anyway” construction, so it should last well too.
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Luc, Congrats on the new sled! Hope it fills the HUGE hole in your fleet!🤣
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Luc, Congrats on the new sled! Hope it fills the HUGE hole in your fleet!🤣
Thanks.
I know, I know, I was going to go for something different with volume like a Sunova Allround but the price of the Maliko was right so it was difficult to resist i.e. selling one board paid for the new one.....while the demo Sunovas on offer were close to new board prices
You would expect a quiver to be only radically different boards but I have also found that overlap works nicely as you are not in the situation of saying "I should really have taken board X"
The Maliko and Vapor feels a little bit more like cousins of the same family so it is really comfortable to jump from one to the other back and forth. If conditions looks windier, rougher I can throw the Vapor on my car otherwise I can take the Maliko if it looks flatter. At the end of tehd ay, I still cannot go wrong.
At least it is my theory we will see with use.
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Hey Luc. Congrats on the new board. I've never been on a Maliko, but I know they get very good reviews. I'm sure it will be a great board for you! :)
Thank you. I only briefly tried one before but it felt right after 5 minutes.
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Following on my original post, I had the opportunity on a used 2018 Naish Maliko 14x26 within my budget, and I took it :-)
This should cover me for flattish days and the few odd races. Still have my Vapor for DW and my Ace-GT for (Grand) Touring ;)
It’s a very nice board. It’s surprisingly twitchy for its width when you are side-on to wind and waves but otherwise I found it superb, and a lovely comfortable board to paddle, and usefully fast in flat water. The 2018 ones are built with the bulletproof PVC sandwich “who cares about carbon, anyway” construction, so it should last well too.
Yes I think at it as a "nervous" Vapor. It did feel pretty solid and reasonably light when handling it which was also one of teh reason I took the plunge.
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It’s surprisingly twitchy for its width when you are side-on to wind and waves...
Strange, I found it quite comfortable in these conditions... The only area I thought it
can do a better job was in head-on to the wind and waves, shorter period.
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It’s surprisingly twitchy for its width when you are side-on to wind and waves...
Strange, I found it quite comfortable in these conditions... The only area I thought it
can do a better job was in head-on to the wind and waves, shorter period.
It’s a momentary thing it does if you are turning 180 degrees in wind and chop. I agree that when paddling in a straight line side-on to chop and wind it is very nice.Try a load of 180 degree turns as you might if you were going round a buoy in a bit of wind and chop and you’ll see what I mean. But that was really my only criticism and it’s a small detail when the rest of the board is so lovely to paddle and own. I remember jumping on the Maliko 14x26 and feeling instantly at home, and thinking “wow, this is really nice, and fast too”. Smart purchase, it will give you a lot of fun. It’s an extremely versatile board.
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I remember jumping on the Maliko 14x26 and feeling instantly at home, and thinking “wow, this is really nice, and fast too”. Smart purchase, it will give you a lot of fun. It’s an extremely versatile board.
Well I have been swapping enough boards in the course of a few years.... I hope that I am now home and all of them just feel perfect for what I use them for.
The Vapor and the Ace-GT sure became keepers.
The SIC RS was so tempting but could not find anything accessible or in my budget.
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good choice Luc Benac, the maliko goes anywhere anytime and its one of those allround board if you like the naish fix.