Standup Zone Forum

Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: addapost on June 16, 2018, 09:07:34 AM

Title: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: addapost on June 16, 2018, 09:07:34 AM
Is it me or is foiling even related to standup paddling? I don't even know what it is but it doesn't much look like stand up paddling to me. Does it even belong on this website at all? Or should there be a new one created just for foiling? Discuss. I'll be here with my asbestos suit on.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: surfercook on June 16, 2018, 10:12:53 AM
Many are foiling on sup so I have to say yes, the subject does belong here on The Zone.
There's even an entire section on The Zone dedicated to foiling.
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/board,88.0.html

And if you haven't seen this video of Laird at A+ Chicama foiling definitely check it out! Foiling on a sup makes.good sense to him for sure.
https://youtu.be/43ja3q3jxTc
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: supthecreek on June 16, 2018, 11:17:02 AM
Don't know if I'll ever Foil or not, but it is fun to watch everyones excitement and experiences.
It is being discussed with humor and inclusion.
and with the stoke that SUP gives us all, so I am glad we have something exciting to discuss.
There are vids and pictures and lots of learning.... so yeah, I'm glad it's here.

What we need here are more NEW SUPster, asking questions and creating fresh discussion.
Now that we are old hands at this,  ;)  I enjoy helping people navigate SUP beginnings.

Thanks to all who participate with info, questions, fails and successes, plus all who post videos and pictures.
I like the beginner videos more than watching the Pros.... it reminds me of how we all got into this gig in the first place!  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: surfinJ on June 16, 2018, 11:29:38 AM
I donít think I will try to foil and although the prone foil guys seem to have the best platform, Iím sure itís got a spot on the zone.

For me SUP is a continuation of my surfing and wih more sessions behind me then in front... and still trying to improve my surfing....thatís the priority, more surf.

But I will watch all your guys vids and will imagine how the magic carpet ride of the foil must feel.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: Dialy on June 16, 2018, 11:39:12 AM
If you are standing up on a board while paddling, aren't you stand up paddling?
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: Weasels wake on June 16, 2018, 03:00:01 PM
Foiling is related to SUP as much as it is to prone surfing, tow-in surfing, wind surfing, kite surfing, and even sailing.
Attach a foil to any of those water crafts, and they instantly become related, you could even call it a marriage.
But wait, then there's this! 
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: addapost on June 16, 2018, 03:01:51 PM
If you are standing up on a board while paddling, aren't you stand up paddling?
I guess so, but it just seems like some invisible line has been crossed and you're not SUPping once you get up on the foil, It LOOKS different
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: addapost on June 16, 2018, 03:03:14 PM
Foiling is related to SUP as much as it is to prone surfing, tow-in surfing, wind surfing, kite surfing, and even sailing.
Attach a foil to any of those water crafts, and they instantly become related, you could even call it a marriage.
But wait, then there's this!

Do you think the prone surf forums have a page for prone foil surfing?
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: goodfornothin on June 16, 2018, 03:21:34 PM
Yes, dailybread (kaiser1) i believe started a post at surfermag.com.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: addapost on June 16, 2018, 03:25:36 PM
Yes, dailybread (kaiser1) i believe started a post at surfermag.com.
OMG! They will KILL him! Foiling ain't gonna fly over there. No way
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: PonoBill on June 16, 2018, 04:25:23 PM
I consider it a SUP rooted sport since the good SUP paddlers were the early adopters. But I get the point. I don't call it surfing, I call it foiling. I don't think I surf anymore. At least not right now. The things I was trying to improve in when I was surfing are meaningless for foiling--or at least they aqre now.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: goodfornothin on June 16, 2018, 07:45:57 PM
Its doing ok believe it or not, a few cool brobrahs have started doing it so its gently accepted.  But onky if you do it on a super cool 4'2 surfboard, haha.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: surfcowboy on June 17, 2018, 02:37:16 AM
Let's throw it off here. All the most popular posts are about foiling so I'm sure the foilzone will do great and the standupzone can go the way of  racing and the 500 SUP manufacturers we used to have.

Top non-foil SUZ posts of 2018:

Proner hurt my feelings, again

Hey guys, what board do I get for paddling on the lake behind my house?

First sesh on the lake behind my house (with 100 pics of the ducks there)!!

Visiting (name some place SUPs should never be) where can I rent 12' board to surf local breaks? - first timer

Seriously, why don't proners like me?

Now don't get all butt hurt, try to enjoy a laugh. I've posted all of these myself on here at one time or another in my SUP life. But really, without new topics, this place would get stale, fast. I think that this should be the waterzone and anything with a paddle or not should have a forum as m fascinated by OC-1, surfski, and all sorts of other things.

Bring it on. Trust me this will all die down like all the other SUP trends. Anyone wanna post about going smaller again?

I guess I should mention that I've only paddled my SUP 2 or 3 times in the last year but went out today and caught a ton of waves... to see if could still paddle and get ready to try foiling lol. But I loved it and am committed to paddling more this summer.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: Bean on June 17, 2018, 05:40:40 AM
At my local, my concern is that foils will be prohibited from the crowded "designated surf spots" which in turn will make it easier for the individual municipalities to also prohibit "everything but prone boards" in one blanket ordinance.  (They tend to be lazy "one size fits all" legislators).

So, from that perspective, foiling is related or at least relevant in the discussion.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: Weasels wake on June 17, 2018, 11:44:03 AM
Foiling is related to SUP as much as it is to prone surfing, tow-in surfing, wind surfing, kite surfing, and even sailing.
Attach a foil to any of those water crafts, and they instantly become related, you could even call it a marriage.
But wait, then there's this!

Do you think the prone surf forums have a page for prone foil surfing?
It's all over the place online, as for the prone approach, you don't even have to start with prone paddling once you get good at it, you can beach start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_BqMUi-Axs
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: JEG on June 18, 2018, 02:29:41 PM
I don't foil but I would say foil is part of stand up board. Maybe one day I'll have a go.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: surf4food on June 18, 2018, 04:28:49 PM
What Weasels Wake said.  All that being said, I think at some point the popularity is going to seriously taper off.  A combination of people finding out it's not easy and that is has a tremendous learning curve.  Then factor in restrictions that we all know will happen eventually.  Plus lawsuits, beatings, etc when a newbie foiler causes injury to another person.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: Ichabod Spoonbill on June 18, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
Yeah, I get foiling is very popular right now, but I'm waiting for the conversations to get back to standup paddling. I don't care that other people foil ó it's just that it doesn't interest me.

My worry about foiling is that it will take SUP more and more into the high end. I still think we need to remember that for SUP to stay popular, beginners need to keep trying it.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: addapost on June 19, 2018, 07:01:21 AM
Yeah, I get foiling is very popular right now, but I'm waiting for the conversations to get back to standup paddling. I don't care that other people foil ó it's just that it doesn't interest me.

My worry about foiling is that it will take SUP more and more into the high end. I still think we need to remember that for SUP to stay popular, beginners need to keep trying it.
Not sure I'd call it "very popular". It's a niche within a niche within a niche. I'd guess less than 1% of all SUP owners/paddlers have even heard of it much less tried it. It just so happens that a few people who regularly visit this site are really into it right now, they're posting all about so it LOOKS like a bigger thing than it really is. I have no plans to ever try it but it looks interesting and probably fun when you get the hang of it, I'm just not sure it is very closely related to SUP.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: stoneaxe on June 19, 2018, 08:17:11 AM
I think it belongs so long as it's attached to a SUP. Just another discipline in my mind when it is. I can understand your point though....feels different.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: TallDude on June 19, 2018, 10:51:27 AM
It's mostly older men with time and money that are into it. Reminiscent of the windsurfing crowd. In fact, made up of a predominantly a past and present windsurfing crowd. Really only a handful of wealthy, sponsored and or connected kids are into it. I was down at the beach yesterday watching a group of groms trying over and over to pull off an off the lip no-grab 360. None of them could land one, but they will keep trying. These kids have incredible surfing skills, yet really no access to foils or even the knowledge base regarding foils. If they did, they would rip beyond any old farts. To get into it, their parents would have to know about it, and be willing to throw down a lot cash to get their kids into it. Plus the danger factor would have most parents saying NO! 
I would say it was born from the windsurf mind set.     
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: surf4food on June 19, 2018, 06:55:16 PM
Yeah, I get foiling is very popular right now, but I'm waiting for the conversations to get back to standup paddling. I don't care that other people foil ó it's just that it doesn't interest me.

My worry about foiling is that it will take SUP more and more into the high end. I still think we need to remember that for SUP to stay popular, beginners need to keep trying it.
Not sure I'd call it "very popular". It's a niche within a niche within a niche. I'd guess less than 1% of all SUP owners/paddlers have even heard of it much less tried it. It just so happens that a few people who regularly visit this site are really into it right now, they're posting all about so it LOOKS like a bigger thing than it really is. I have no plans to ever try it but it looks interesting and probably fun when you get the hang of it, I'm just not sure it is very closely related to SUP.

Less that 1 percent?  That's a stretch in my opinion.  Yes as far as SUP board owners who have actually tired it and likely even who are interested in trying it.  But as far as hearing of it?  I don't know a single board owner who's never at least heard of it but maybe I'm in a bubble.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: surf4food on June 19, 2018, 06:57:54 PM
It's mostly older men with time and money that are into it. Reminiscent of the windsurfing crowd. In fact, made up of a predominantly a past and present windsurfing crowd. Really only a handful of wealthy, sponsored and or connected kids are into it. I was down at the beach yesterday watching a group of groms trying over and over to pull off an off the lip no-grab 360. None of them could land one, but they will keep trying. These kids have incredible surfing skills, yet really no access to foils or even the knowledge base regarding foils. If they did, they would rip beyond any old farts. To get into it, their parents would have to know about it, and be willing to throw down a lot cash to get their kids into it. Plus the danger factor would have most parents saying NO! 
I would say it was born from the windsurf mind set.     

I guess this must vary from place to place.  When I was in Kauai last year the only guys I saw with a foil (which really wasn't a whole lot) all looked to be under 30.  Same thing here in San Diego where I live.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: SUPcheat on June 19, 2018, 07:23:27 PM
I'm wondering if they can devise a true competitive sport out of foiling. 

I'm thinking board life is going to be short compared to standard SUP, with all the physical stresses on the boards.  I think I could do it if I tried, I just really don't want to go out and find another way to tempt injury.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: addapost on June 19, 2018, 07:25:13 PM
Yeah, I get foiling is very popular right now, but I'm waiting for the conversations to get back to standup paddling. I don't care that other people foil ó it's just that it doesn't interest me.

My worry about foiling is that it will take SUP more and more into the high end. I still think we need to remember that for SUP to stay popular, beginners need to keep trying it.
Not sure I'd call it "very popular". It's a niche within a niche within a niche. I'd guess less than 1% of all SUP owners/paddlers have even heard of it much less tried it. It just so happens that a few people who regularly visit this site are really into it right now, they're posting all about so it LOOKS like a bigger thing than it really is. I have no plans to ever try it but it looks interesting and probably fun when you get the hang of it, I'm just not sure it is very closely related to SUP.

Less that 1 percent?  That's a stretch in my opinion.  Yes as far as SUP board owners who have actually tired it and likely even who are interested in trying it.  But as far as hearing of it?  I don't know a single board owner who's never at least heard of it but maybe I'm in a bubble.

I think even surf SUP is a tiny fraction of SUP overall. This is what I see, maybe things are different elsewhere- I teach for a kayak/SUP retailer/school. We offer ACA SUP instruction for beginner lessons as well as for surf. We teach about 100 beginner flatwater students every season. We rent to several hundred more (flatwater). While we have offered SUP surf lessons for the last 4 years we have never has a single person sign up. Not one. ALL of the SUP boards we sell are either general flatwater (most) or race (few). If you surf then you see folks surfing. If you foil then you see folks foiling. It's easy to think it is more common than it really is but in either case it probably is a small bubble compared to the hidden masses.
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: Rider on June 19, 2018, 07:55:29 PM
Do the manufacturers have any interest in hiping this?
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: surfcowboy on June 19, 2018, 09:26:29 PM
Lamborghinis are the tiniest fraction of the car market yet there are thousands of pages written about them.

SUP surf is the same way. It's the dream. No one is buying a SUP based in the dream of ruling the local creek. Sure, it's fun, but the dream is the ocean surf or tropical waters, look at the ads.

Foils are a novelty, but one that people love to look at. Check the views on Kai's foiling videos against any river SUP pro. It's not SUP paddlers who are watching those videos.

In short, if you want these things to keep selling so we can all have gear manufacturers, don't hate. ;)

Oh and when/if the factories do shut down, the only place to buy a lake board will be from a shaper on the coast as they will be making surfboards, and all sorts of other, wait for it... related types of boards. It's all from the Duke. It's all the same.

Actually  I'm wrong, you will still be able to stand up in a canoe if the factories close. I gotta start a standup canoe thread. It's sweeping the nation!

This is not to say that flat water isn't fun, or you shouldn't do it, or anything. It's just to say that if those of us who live near the ocean and surf in it post a lot, that's not stopping anyone else from posting. Get to it! Flood us with tales of lake adventure etc. Creek posted tons of awesome pics from flatwater paddles. I dug every one.

But this site thrives on pages seen and ads on those pages, so cutting the number of pages is killing the thing you like. If these foil threads leave, dollars go with them. My goofy six month journey of building a foil has paid for a month of hosting I'll bet. Contribute and see these foil threads slide down the page as people flock to the real SUP content that they clearly are hungry for.

Ok, get to it. Who's posting the next request for a ride report for the 10'6" Bic all arounder that some guy is sure to post any day now that it's June in Missouri? (Sorry, I had to ding that one more time.)
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: Califoilia on June 20, 2018, 08:46:58 AM
Yeah, I get foiling is very popular right now, but I'm waiting for the conversations to get back to standup paddling. I don't care that other people foil ó it's just that it doesn't interest me.

My worry about foiling is that it will take SUP more and more into the high end. I still think we need to remember that for SUP to stay popular, beginners need to keep trying it.
See, you "don't care that other people foil", and I don't care if other people SUP, or surf, or pick they're nose - it just "doesn't interest me" wtf other people do, that's none of my business nor concern.

And why does SUP need "to stay popular"? There will always be someone making them, and maybe after the novelty wears off, it will put all of these f'n bandwagon jumpers with their cheap POS pop-out boards out of business, and let the actual SUP/surfboard shapers  get back to making a fair living selling more boards for less, instead of having to separate themselves from the crap, and sell a few boards to the true enthusiasts of the sport for ridiculous prices...because they know that the "beginners", and average Joe SUPer are buying Costco/Chinese pop-out board, leash, paddle, and sometimes even bag for less than these guys can sell just the board (sometimes sans fins, and even pad), and still be able to keep the lights on in their shop.

So now that some of the custom SUP shops/shapers are trying to keep their doors open by developing foil specific "SUP" boards to sell to the guys who are already committed SUPers looking for the next water adventure...we've got guys saying they're not SUPs, and shouldn't be included in a SUP forum? F'n incredible, way to share the stoke my "friends".  >:(
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: Evan Lloyd on June 21, 2018, 12:41:20 PM
Is SUP yoga even related to yoga?  Think about it.   8)
Title: Re: Is foiling even related to SUP?
Post by: JEG on June 21, 2018, 08:52:59 PM
Yes & No!
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