Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Downwind and Racing => Topic started by: photofr on April 30, 2018, 11:02:47 PM
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Are you guys seeing this too?
What do you races look like?
I know there are quite a few events where kids are welcomed, however, the last race in Europe showed this alarming news...
Total entries: 33 paddlers
Over 40: 22 paddlers
Over 50: 14 paddlers
Looking at those stats, there's no doubt that I fear for the future of the sport - at least in its racing stages.
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I think there is a new SUP racing video game. The kids are really interested it........ ::)
If you're losing, you can just shoot or bomb all your competitors. Got to have the blood factor.....
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I've heard of that game: SUP Combat. Nowadays, it takes place in the SURF, right? :P
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Total entries: 33 paddlers
Over 40: 22 paddlers
Over 50: 14 paddlers
Well, for one thing, they need to stop using that new-math...
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Good catch... there were 43 male entries (but I cannot change my original post stating 33 paddlers)
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I think that it is pretty common for a large percentage to be older. I think that the cost of a race board and paddle plus fees and hotel etc is just out of reach for a lot of the the younger crowd.
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Are you guys seeing this too?
What do you races look like?
I know there are quite a few events where kids are welcomed, however, the last race in Europe showed this alarming news...
Total entries: 33 paddlers
Over 40: 22 paddlers
Over 50: 14 paddlers
Looking at those stats, there's no doubt that I fear for the future of the sport - at least in its racing stages.
This is pretty typical of other sports i know like cycling, triathlon and kayaking. It's because those age groups have got to the point of children being independent and having a larger disposable income. I was only talking to someone about this yesterday - in the UK right now, we only have two <20 yr paddlers coming through. Both are sponsored by brands, both are male and that's not healthy.
Having a sport with 3 grands worth of board that people want to upgrade annually and the need to travel to events is not the healthy base of a sports development pyramid. However, it might not mean collapse, but merely a limited pool.
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As usual Mr Photofr sees only what he wants, and overreacts.
What is The “last race in Europe “?
22/33 are over 40?= 11 are under 40, not that bad.
Stats with only 33 don’t mean much anyway.
Endurance sports attract older people, do you know Marco Olmo ?
+ from SUP racer “Inspired by their pioneering superstar and world number two, Titouan Puyo, a new generation of New Caledonian paddlers are emerging on the international stage with under-18s Noic Garioud and Clement Colmas leading the way.(...)There are probably dozens more talented men and women waiting in the wings back home à la Tahiti(...)“Les Cagous” are humbly but surely reinvigorating the sport and giving new meaning to the term “Punching above your weight.”
:-*
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Racing peaked 2 -3 years ago. It's not just kids that aren't all that interested. It will be a niche sport (even more than it was) and continue to shrink. Overall number of races has shrunk and while some races continue to draw folks overall participation in racing is less. If the parents aren't racing it's unlikely the kids ever will. I'm not sure what there is to be careful about anyway. SUP racing could disappear completely and it would have little impact on the sport/pastime as a whole. It's only a small (and shrinking) percentage of a small percentage that races.
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As usual Mr Photofr sees only what he wants, and overreacts.
What is The “last race in Europe “?
22/33 are over 40?= 11 are under 40, not that bad.
Stats with only 33 don’t mean much anyway.
Endurance sports attract older people, do you know Marco Olmo ?
+ from SUP racer “Inspired by their pioneering superstar and world number two, Titouan Puyo, a new generation of New Caledonian paddlers are emerging on the international stage with under-18s Noic Garioud and Clement Colmas leading the way.(...)There are probably dozens more talented men and women waiting in the wings back home à la Tahiti(...)“Les Cagous” are humbly but surely reinvigorating the sport and giving new meaning to the term “Punching above your weight.”
:-*
To be fair, I am not asking anyone to overreact - nor am I overreacting!
It would be nice if everyone would act on this - and there lies the difference.
The latest race was Alps Trophy 2018. Sure, it didn't attract that many participants - but a 10km race isn't exactly what I would call a great endurance race. I just remember mountain biking with a bunch of 30 year olds - on 3 to 4 hour courses.
Surfski paddling has a similar problem - and I think it's just sad that:
a) people think I overreact when stating the obvious
b) people dismiss this as being a problem
c) people aren't at least trying to come up with solutions
Specifically @COMEAU:
If I really wanted to see what I wanted, I would have stated that the two top paddlers were on a Nelo board, and that 4 of Nelo boards were on the top 10, and that SB was nowhere to be seen (coming in 9th place)
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Not surprising that kids aren’t really much into the worlds slowest sport. Old guys love it because all the other sports eat knee ligaments.
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I think the elite aspect of standup paddling gets way too much attention in general. It doesn't mean we shouldn't pay attention to racing, or foiling, or big wave surfing, or those crazy downwind runs, but it's not indicative of most of the sport. It's easy to write about and pay attention to, but most people aren't going to be there.
Most people are either renting or getting onto their only board and going for casual paddles. They aren't very photogenic, but they're where most of the industry is at.
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I'm trying to understand why you would think any of that is sad.
If you're stating the obvious but nobody else cares enough to do anything then maybe you care too much, we are talking SUP racing not world peace.
Dismissing as a problem....not a problem...it just is what it is....a very niche sport that enjoyed a few years of excitement because it was new. It's no longer new, and it's boring for the most part....so it's fading for all but the die hards. If you're a diehard (and you obviously are) it matters....to everyone else...not so much.
Nobody doing anything? If it didn't already happen with all the $$'s spent and tons of races at great venues, etc.. it's not going to happen. Who's going to throw more time and $$ at something that is fading? I'm all for programs and efforts that increase participation in the sport and have done my share to get people on the water. At one point almost everyone I knew that had a board was going to races...now at best it may be 1 out of 20. Focus on fun events instead of racing and you'll see more kids involved.
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I agree with stoneaxe. Racing has developed to the point where if you don’t want to embarrass yourself you are going to have to put in some serious training. And most of that won’t be inherently fun. So unless you are a highly competitive person by nature, you just are going to do something more fun with your time instead. Most people either do a race or two just for the experience and then decide “been there, done that”, or they aren’t even tempted to in the first place.
If Starboard’s “SUP Polo” had taken off as sport then it might be different. That is inherently fun and is a team game.
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Not surprising that kids aren’t really much into the worlds slowest sport.
Ahh, the truth, hiding in plain sight...
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Stats with only 33 don’t mean much anyway.
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You're right, but in this case the stat is on 1 race.
A race on a lake called "the cold lake". Anyone surprised?
When a single race has a surprising low participation it usually is that something else bigger and better was going on that weekend.
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We never made it to the level of synchronized freestyle sup events :'(
I want to hear music........... and see beautiful paddling choreography...........
Don't you dare post the pathetic canoe garbage!
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Not surprising that kids aren’t really much into the worlds slowest sport.
Ahh, the truth, hiding in plain sight...
I used to love SUP racing. I'll still probably participate in a few this year. I have to admit though, I was in Tahiti for the past week and I got my first chance to paddle an OC1 and WOW. The difference in speed was instantly addicting. It was also humbling when I realized I had no idea how to recover from a huli and I was in the middle of the south Pacific :o
Is there a sitdownzone.com??? Sign me up...
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kayadogg,
I second that. I started SUP for a year, the surfski, then OC1. I have to admit, that my Allstar doesn't see near the water time that my ski or OC1 do. I paddle flat water and small river downwind and the speed of the ski and OC1 are really addictive.
Plus, you can paddle them much easier into the wind see as you are making your self into a giant wind sail by standing up!
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Back to our regular program:
"Synched SUP - with classical music"
Anyway, made me laugh - so I thank you for that.
I think we are all right, and all wrong...
What could we do to include more kids into the sport?
What could help the sport and what isn't going to help kids into the sport?
I am just saying that we need new blood - because that's just how it works.
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Not surprising that kids aren’t really much into the worlds slowest sport.
Ahh, the truth, hiding in plain sight...
Ding, ding, ding....we have our winner!
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I can sense a "plateau" phenomenon at multiple levels.
*Plateau in participation numbers
*Plateau in board speed / technology lessening excitement for new purchases
*Plateau in individuals' fitness levels and race results; sense of "this is as good as I'm gonna get"
Also:
*I can no longer close the middle drawer in my dresser because it's overflowing with shirts from SUP races from 2015 until the present.
*I am realizing that I am too poor and too busy to make a dozen trips a year for SUP races. I still do all the local ones, but have gotten much more selective about the out of town ones.
*I have succumbed to peer pressure to try surfski paddling, and the challenge of learning that "new" and faster paddlesport is dulling my desire to push personal limits on SUP.
Nevertheless, I think that amateur SUP racing WILL continue at some level because:
*A huge base of low-performance recreational SUP paddlers provides a supply of "latent" racers, a small percentage of whom are lured into the race scene at some point via fun-oriented race events like Poker runs, adventure races, etc.
*Participation by old people still counts as participation, and the stock of old people is continually replenished by young people getting old.
*Performance SUP paddling is very good exercise and races are good motivation to stay fit.
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I think we are all right, and all wrong...
What could we do to include more kids into the sport?
What could help the sport and what isn't going to help kids into the sport?
I am just saying that we need new blood - because that's just how it works.
Why does it have to "include more kids into the sport"...why can't you grow the sport simply by attracting more of the age demographics you're seeing now?
As has been pointed out a couple to times that I think you missed or chose to ignore...is that the "sport" is too slow, boring, and monotonous for kids to become interested in, unless their parents are involved in it, and the kids participate simply to give themselves something to do since they're there anyway when mom, and/or dad are competing.
But to think kids are going to clamor for a sport that's about as exciting as watching snail racing...c'mon, you can't be serious. But maybe you are, so let's try this...
I'm going to be a 15 year old high school kid....so in your own words, convince me why I should spend my weekends SUP racing, instead of one of all of the other available activities I have to chose from to spend my time on. I'm listening. :)
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I think there is a new SUP racing video game. The kids are really interested it........ ::)
If you're losing, you can just shoot or bomb all your competitors. Got to have the blood factor.....
Don't get your hopes up: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sup-multiplayer-racing/id1128327441?mt=8
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I think we are all right, and all wrong...
What could we do to include more kids into the sport?
What could help the sport and what isn't going to help kids into the sport?
I am just saying that we need new blood - because that's just how it works.
But to think kids are going to clamor for a sport that's about as exciting as watching snail racing...c'mon, you can't be serious. But maybe you are, so let's try this...
I'm going to be a 15 year old high school kid....so in your own words, convince me why I should spend my weekends SUP racing, instead of one of all of the other available activities I have to chose from to spend my time on. I'm listening. :)
AS A RACE PROMOTER
I would ensure that there are kids events - to ensure that when the old folks like me fall off the wagon, there will be a replacement. Activities could include "Last kid standing", "quick race around buoys", "setting them up for success by removing wind factor when possible", "rescue drills / technique / races".
AS AN INSTRUCTOR
I would invite you to come on up and learn valuable rescue skills - made possible using a SUP. I know you will love it - just as soon as you attempt to rescue an old fart from the water, but just to be sure, all participants would get free soft drinks and pizza, private space in a real lifeguard tower made just for you for the event, etc... because there's no limit to one's imagination.
AS A PARENT
I'd let you know that we are going to go down a river on one weekend, and take our snorkelling gear on another unrelated weekend - so that we can get some lobsters... etc... because again, the list just goes on.
WHY MORE KIDS?
I totally realise that my 8 year old niece who barely bikes could in fact BIKE faster than most Elite SUP paddlers. Of course SUP Paddling is slow, but it doesn't have to be boring for kids - unless we make it boring for them. I will agree that for a kid, watching 15 adults drafting one another may not seem like a thrill. I will also agree that the sport's average speed isn't attractive either - until you catch a wave or something. HOWEVER, if you don't show kids how to enjoy biking, kayaking, SUP, skiing, snowboarding, swimming, hiking, dancing, etc... they may just be missing out on all these things.
So really, why more kids? Because WE need more blood into any given sport. The health of a sport can be arguably judged by the number of younger participants - in a race / or strictly as recreational.
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I'm all for introducing kids to SUP but whether they take to racing is a whole different discussion. The CCBC gave 6 full sets of gear (boards, paddles, leashes and PFDs) to community boating in Boston. Even though there are lots of kids there...it's mostly adults that are using them. We had kids races at events, and I've seen others do the same. The numbers don't work. You think its tough getting enough adults to fill divisions/classes? It's even tougher to create a fair competitive race for kids. They're only there because of Mom or Dad.
We don't need to have organized competition to get kids into SUP.....just take them paddling and have fun. I take my 8 year old granddaughter out frequently, we explore creeks, go snorkeling, picnic, she loves it...asked for her own board this year. I've taken my soon to be step-grandson out a 1/2 dozen times....very gifted athlete, very competitive, sponsored motocross racer. He's a natural on a SUP. I have no doubt he would be very successful racing if he was interested......he's not, he said it looks "terribly boring" ...just wants me to take him surfing. Bottom line SUP racing is too boring for kids to care....shit it's too boring for me to care....and I think that says something. Maybe just that my attention span is short and that I'm not all that competitive but I think that's a big part of the reason for less participation overall.
I also don't agree with any need to be careful...Sano said it.
Why does it have to "include more kids into the sport"...why can't you grow the sport simply by attracting more of the age demographics you're seeing now?
Kids grow up, get older, then they get interested in SUP.... :) Aren't we all kids at some level trying to hold on to youth....
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A good hard look at the demographics of surfing in So Cal will let you know that Surfing in general is has far less participation per capita than it did when I was a kid 40 years ago. The breaks may still be just as crowded (though not nearly what I remember unless it's a standout day) but the population is 4 times larger than it was when I was a kid. The best part of SUP is that I can ride mushy junk waves and have a blast, and that just didn't happen very often when I prone surfed.
I think I was aiming at a point, being, people are just not nearly as active today as they were pre-computer revolution. The sedentary lifestyle has taken it's toll. People don't see experience a walk down the street anymore, they just walk while reading their phone.
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Stats with only 33 don’t mean much anyway.
Especially if you consider that 100.03 percent of the population do not really understand statistics... ;D
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a) people think I overreact when stating the obvious
b) people dismiss this as being a problem
c) people aren't at least trying to come up with solutions
stating the obvious/ are you guys seeing this too?
so photofr, you asked if people share your view and when some disagree they
're ignoring the obvious...
"careful...""alarming news""fear for the future" based on race in middle of the Alps is overreacting in my opinion.
So sad I forgot German, I couldn't read the SUP Alps trophy page. but I got they have kids categories. You're talking about Kalterer see, is it a big race?
The same weekend there were 3 big international events with lots of young guns (couldn't find age categories).
I m sure a fun race like the red bull Privateers treasure hunt should be appealing to youngsters.
Some sports need competition to be attractive, some don't necessarily, Some sports are difficult to practice once you’re getting older, some sports aren’t .
I bought a skateboard at the age of 40, I was a total fool.
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I think there is a new SUP racing video game. The kids are really interested it........ ::)
If you're losing, you can just shoot or bomb all your competitors. Got to have the blood factor.....
Don't get your hopes up: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sup-multiplayer-racing/id1128327441?mt=8
Of course. WhaaaSUP dude. Means something else to most people.
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I was always surprised that so many people wanted to race. It's hard, it takes a lot of practice and training, and if you work really hard at it you might be able to keep the leaders in sight. If you want to be competitive you have to be on a competitive board, and they are ridiculously expensive. And you have to be the right size. Do all that, train, get paddle coaching, put the hours in and you never go faster than a brisk jog unless you're in a bump--and then only for a very short time.
I still race, but I race whatever I want, and don't care about where I finish.
As far as racing being at a plateau--if only. It's on the steep side of the downward curve. There is no combination of incentives, opportunities, or organizer efforts that will l change that.
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So really, why more kids? Because WE need more blood into any given sport. The health of a sport can be arguably judged by the number of younger participants - in a race / or strictly as recreational.
From this above, it seems to me that you're attempting to look through the keyhole of the front door to "judge" what's inside the entire house.
SUPing is a lot more than just racing, and thankfully so. Because if we judged one's SUP participation simply by how much they raced...I'd have absolutely zero SUP experience with all the years I've participated in it otherwise by surfing, open water paddling, flat water paddling, and now foiling on one if that were the case.
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The SUP industry could have followed in the footsteps of the skateboard industry. I don't remember any skateboard races in the beginning. I don't believe they sold any skateboards for more than a thousand dollars. Did Tony Hawk popularize the industry or was it the industry that made him popular?
It's pretty telling when Kai Lenny has pretty much shun SUP racing for big wave surfing and foiling. Who is the next Kai that the kids can look up to?
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Needing new blood doesn't necessarily mean that we must have kids racing.
Did you miss the part where you take kids on a SUP for snorkelling ventures? Was that a race???
Did you miss the part where you take kids down a river? Was that a race???
Did you also miss the part of the 100's of other possibilities we can all come up with?
The end result would perhaps be more kids at races... but the point is that this would just be the end result. Getting there would require getting kids and younger paddlers MORE involved in the sport.
Simplified thought:
Get kids involved on the recreational level = eventually more kids at races
(not the other way around)
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SUP racing = $thousands in equipment to lumber along at potato-sack race speeds. Yet, there is no better way to meet and spend time outdoors with some pretty terrific people.
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Stats with only 33 don’t mean much anyway.
Especially if you consider that 100.03 percent of the population do not really understand statistics... ;D
Have you been hanging around with PDX lately.... :)
Photo...your 1st post was about the number of kids at a race and fearing for racing. It's the death of racing (or near death anyway) not the death of SUP. I'm all for getting more people out there. I've always been an evangelist for the sport and I love showing kids but I don't think any focus is necessary. If the parents don't SUP it's very unlikely that their kids will. Those that are interested will find/try it when they have the $$ and time to do so. The demographic is what it is. It's not a question of if you build it they will come. That's been done....they didn't come.....unless Mom/Dad are into it too.
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The only company that has made kids SUP boards in any quantity and actually actively sold them is... ...Wavestorm. Let the outrage begin.
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^ awesome
Kids stuff always has to be cheap.
The secret to cheap ski beanies (and skateboard helmuts) is to buy in the kids section. Kids have almost the same size head as us.
I know, I know, you're going to tell us the exceptions to that rule...
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Not surprising that kids aren’t really much into the worlds slowest sport.
Ahh, the truth, hiding in plain sight...
I used to love SUP racing. I'll still probably participate in a few this year. I have to admit though, I was in Tahiti for the past week and I got my first chance to paddle an OC1 and WOW. The difference in speed was instantly addicting. It was also humbling when I realized I had no idea how to recover from a huli and I was in the middle of the south Pacific :o
Is there a sitdownzone.com??? Sign me up...
+1 But having a custom Pueo 'Foot Forward' built to fit me and shipped to the mainland is around $6K. I think about it.....
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There is only one god and that is downwinding. People will always do it in whatever works for them. I love it at 68 (started prone paddleboarding in 1979) and my grandson loves it at 15. The foil thing has exploded here on Maui and a race, like we had yesterday in zero wind, was dominated in numbers by OC-1s, in speed by surfskis, and yet there were still a fair number of SUPs willing to slug it out. If there had been sufficient wind there would have been foilers. I did OC-2 with a 26 yr old Canadian kid, maybe 130 lbs and strong with great endurance. Hot and muggy usually does me in but being with youth was uplifting enough enough to allow us a sprint the last mile to the finish. I was stoked. But I freakin love the surfski. The guy that posted the fastest time, did a time in the ski we all do on the windiest days. Mind blowing.
My grandson is coming out this summer and wants to do it all. But he lives in Truckee where the kids are like Maui kids.
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Not surprising that kids aren’t really much into the worlds slowest sport.
Ahh, the truth, hiding in plain sight...
I used to love SUP racing. I'll still probably participate in a few this year. I have to admit though, I was in Tahiti for the past week and I got my first chance to paddle an OC1 and WOW. The difference in speed was instantly addicting. It was also humbling when I realized I had no idea how to recover from a huli and I was in the middle of the south Pacific :o
Is there a sitdownzone.com??? Sign me up...
+1 But having a custom Pueo 'Foot Forward' built to fit me and shipped to the mainland is around $6K. I think about it.....
At your size and weight I expect you'd be better off in a Scorpius, and I'd looks for a used one. They've been replaced by the Antares, which is not as good for heavy guys IMNSHO, but all the racers and serious folks have switched, which put a fair number of Scorpiae on the market. Don't get the XM or XS, you want the basic Scorpius, built for Mooses. The footwell is long and the seat has room for more foam removal, but you might be able to find an extended footwell version. More common in the XM and XS because they had a shorter well to begin with.
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As I’ve stated several times on previous threads, it’s AMAZING it ever got to the point that it has when compared to other paddle sports. Surfski , OC1/OC2, and prone paddling will never be anything but niche sports and relegated to coastal areas (and even by that only a small few). In most of the country things like canoe and kayak paddling in flat water lakes is simply a weekend fun thing to do in the Summer and that’s probably what SUP is and will remain to most people.
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Plus there are just some sports where people don't get attracted to them later in life.