Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: LBsup on April 14, 2018, 01:39:36 PM
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So I’m very close to purchasing an 8’6 JL Super Frank. I’m not able to demo but have read a lot of positive reviews on Seabreeze . Also, the video I saw was an additional plus. I did see a review by Badger who feels at head high the SF goes too fast and is hard to control. My question is could fins help? On bigger days would larger fins help with control and possibly slow it a bit?
Thanks in advance for any feedback. Ken
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thruster setups are slower I believe- so you probably could slow I down slightly with big fins. But then she won't turn as well with big fins. Perhaps sanding them down so they have a big blunt front edge too?!
I'm sure you could tweak it around with fins- but I think the biggest factor would be it's main shape and design so it would unlikely transform the entire board to a big wave machine. It's designed for smaller stuff.
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I do like the look of them though. A more classicly shaped alternative to the TOMMO styles.
Take a look at the 2017 and 2018 JP slate. The 2018 is far less slate like. I reckon the tommo style is a bit too extreme and people are going back to classic lines a bit.
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There should be no reason to slow it down if you get the Lean model. I ride the 8' SF Lean (115l) and have found that it rips on all sizes of waves. The Lean models have thinner rails which probably help.
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why the desire to slow a board down??
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why the desire to slow a board down??
Wondering that myself. I've never had any desire to slow a board down. Fast is good, faster is better. You can always slow a board with your position-lean back a little and stall it.
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I only asked cause a comment by Badger in his review states he doesn’t ride the SF over chest high cause it goes too fast and it’s hard to control. So my thinking if changing the fins would help with control and perhaps speed?
Thanks, Ken
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I agree that a fast board is better.
Talking to shapers I always say, "You make it fast, I'll make it turn."
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+1 for everyone that says FASTER IS BETTER (particularly in South Carolina conditions) and technique will solve any control issues
But hey that's me
BTW I quoted you let me know
JimK
Extreme Windsurfing
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Yep, never once do I ever remember thinking..."Geez, wish I could slow this dang thing down!" while out there. But there was plenty of time I was looking for another gear, or the accelerator pedal that just wasn't there on a couple of them. :)
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It seems everyone is missing my point or most likely I didn’t explain myself well. I was just reading about future fins and their “Speed generating vs Speed Control” fins.
https://futuresfins.com/innovation/ride-number/
Now I’m by no means have any intention of thinking I’m gonna ride the SF in huge surf. But their concept is more what I mean. Finally, I don’t ride a quiver of boards and most of the time surf in my area is just what the SF is intended for, but for those times when there is some juice perhaps changing up the fins would help.
Thanks again, Ken
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I dont think ive ever heard "my board is to fast!!!", haha
Thats what your hips are for man, drag that shit and get covered,,,then push forward and hit the gas
Although i have starfished a few times hauling way to much ass,,,but hey,,,i dont think i was actualluy trying to slow down,,,hahahaha.
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Perhaps the feedback from the superfrank was it didn't suit big conditions. Whether this came across as feeling too fast- or more likely less controllable or more skittish in big conditions when the speed increased.
Regardless- looking at its squared off tail it doesn't look ideal for bigger conditions. Im sure a couple of fin options may broaden its ability a little- making it looser in smaller waves and giving it more grip and traction in the big stuff.
If you're looking for a 1 board quiver- the super Frank may not be ideal. It does seem to be suited to the smaller skateboard style surfing waist to shiulder high stuff and having a blast. It would probably work very well as part of a 2 board quiver- with something else more suited to shoulder/head high and above.
Or- if you only want 1 board- there may be something else which fits closer to the middle- rather than the superfrank which does seem to be aimed at smaller waves.
Finally- if 95% of your conditions meet the super franks optimum wave type (so a second bigger wave board just isn't warranted) then go for it. I expect someone knowlegeable here would be able to tell you how you can broaden the superfranks wave window a little with a couple of sets of fins for those 5-10% of the time when you're approaching the upper limits of the superfrank. Which I think is what you were asking.
Asking surfers to slow a board down is like asking racing drivers how they reduce the power of their cars :D
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My 2 cents is that if the board is good for most of your conditions most of the time, don't worry about it being less than ideal for bigger stuff. It is a low rocker, fishy skaty board but Jimmy shapes great soft rails that are really smooth and still high performance. I'd use it as a thruster for sure in head high conditions as it will give more stability and positivity, especially if your back foot is not positioned perfectly.
That said, unless your head high waves are grinding hollow reefbreak, the board should handle it fine. It's got a narrower tail than most tomo/short wide models.
Bigger fins are not a good idea for bigger waves. They will just make you track more. Bigger waves = more speed = more lift. Smaller fins are better as they have less lift and less drag. The important thing in bigger waves is the rail. I have tried smaller fins -- standard surfboard size -- and find them much better than most of the stock fins on high performance sups. Get a medium or large futures thruster set and you will be good. Try a medium quad size for smaller stuff. Jimmy's stock fins tend to be bigger.
I think you'll be stoked! I'd love to try the 8 footer.
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I think devon_sup_surf nailed it.
It's the flat rocker that makes the SF unsuitable for larger surf.
If you think you want more speed on the wave, try a board with a flat rocker and you'll see what I mean. You'll gain lots of extra speed but it won't have the control that a conventional rockered shape provides.
Also, the wide point and much of the volume is forward of center on this board. This gets it up on plane early and helps it take off quickly.
Dropping into a head high wave on the SF is like dropping into a halfpipe on a skateboard. I'm sure there a surfers who could ride it in large surf, but no one is going to prefer the SF over a normal rockered board in overhead waves.
The SF is a groveler. It's designed to get as much speed as possible out of slow mushy small waves. Unless those are your everyday conditions, it would not be a good choice for a one board quiver.
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I think devon_sup_surf nailed it.
It's the flat rocker that makes the SF unsuitable for larger surf.
If you think you want more speed on the wave, try a board with a flat rocker and you'll see what I mean. You'll gain lots of extra speed but it won't have the control that a conventional rockered shape provides.
Also, the wide point and much of the volume is forward of center on this board. This gets it up on plane early and helps it take off quickly.
Dropping into a head high wave on the SF is like dropping into a halfpipe on a skateboard. I'm sure there a surfers who could ride it in large surf, but no one is going to prefer the SF over a normal rockered board in overhead waves.
The SF is a groveler. It's designed to get as much speed as possible out of slow mushy small waves. Unless those are your everyday conditions, it would not be a good choice for a one board quiver.
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Yeah, exactly it's not really made to be a 1 board quiver, it's made to primarily do 2 things - excel in sloppy, slow conditions, and allow you to ride a much smaller board as a mere mortal. Depending on your quiver, and your conditions, it would slot in like this:
Primary Board (mine is a 8'8" JL SuperTech) - anything over chest high, clean waist to chest if it's ground swell
Longboard (10'1" JL Black and Blue ) - anything in that knee to stomach range, clean conditions, when i want to noseride (which is basically all the time)
Everything else - this is where the SF would slot in - wind slop, mushy, etc. anything under chest high and I want to surf shortboard-style, not noseride, etc. It's going to make real-world EC conditions tolerable.
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My 2 cents is that if the board is good for most of your conditions most of the time, don't worry about it being less than ideal for bigger stuff. It is a low rocker, fishy skaty board but Jimmy shapes great soft rails that are really smooth and still high performance. I'd use it as a thruster for sure in head high conditions as it will give more stability and positivity, especially if your back foot is not positioned perfectly.
That said, unless your head high waves are grinding hollow reefbreak, the board should handle it fine. It's got a narrower tail than most tomo/short wide models.
Bigger fins are not a good idea for bigger waves. They will just make you track more. Bigger waves = more speed = more lift. Smaller fins are better as they have less lift and less drag. The important thing in bigger waves is the rail. I have tried smaller fins -- standard surfboard size -- and find them much better than most of the stock fins on high performance sups. Get a medium or large futures thruster set and you will be good. Try a medium quad size for smaller stuff. Jimmy's stock fins tend to be bigger.
I think you'll be stoked! I'd love to try the 8 footer.
I think Surfshaver nailed it! Thanks everyone for the feedback. I’ll let you know how things workout.
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The stock 4.5" fins that came on my 7'6 SF seem perfect for me at 170 lbs.
I've been riding it as a quad since I got the board. I switched it over to Thruster after my last session but haven't tried it that way yet. We've got some nice waist to chest coming on Wednesday. It will be interesting to see how it behaves.
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i've owned quite a few tomo-esque style boards, and they can be 'too fast' on bigger waves, that is, the board's inability to handle that speed. one of my earlier boards bounced a lot at high speeds. modifying my position on the board helped, but didn't completely eliminate the problem. it seemed like it wanted to get airborn after a certain speed, and i just realized it wasn't designed for such steep waves. but i suspect most that say my board is too fast are really just bragging...ya know, like saying 'my penis is just too big'. ::)