Standup Zone Forum

General Category => Gear Talk => Topic started by: Dusk Patrol on April 09, 2018, 11:43:24 AM

Title: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Dusk Patrol on April 09, 2018, 11:43:24 AM
I think this is newsworthy because: (i) another viable choice is now on the market. (ii) it is light for Kialoa (16 oz), and (iii) interestingly, it's offered only in a 78" blade.

I'm not affiliated with Kialoa, but have been a fan of the company and Danny Chun's attention to quality. And I like the Tahitian handles. Now morphed into 'ergo T' handles.

I've had a couple Methanes and a GL Surf. I don't have them anymore because they weighed on average over 20 oz... relatively heavy, sturdy  beasts.   

Apparently is offered only in a 78" high aspect blade.  I'd like to try one before making conclusions, but that seems small. 

It's marketed as "Built for SUP course racing." 
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: gzasinets on April 09, 2018, 01:02:05 PM
Yep, it would be interesting to try. What concerns size I think 78 sq" will do just fine for racing. Never saw their paddles in real life.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Eagle on April 09, 2018, 07:22:02 PM
Have no idea how that Kialoa paddles.  But while the pic below is a little deceiving -> the SB High Aspect we have is also 78.  It is a very high load paddle at mid stroke good for 5-6 mile distances.  Also use a 67 Enduro -> and find for upwind DW and high cadence distance that blade is plenty so long as you sink it deep.  For DW a 116 Vantage works proper for me. 

Think Connor uses something around a 82 Lima but before used a 79 Bolt.  Fiona uses a 75 Lima and before a 74 Bolt.  My experience is if you can get a nice deep clean catch even that 67 holds like in wet concrete.  The catch is precise and powerful for a low aspect design.  I use it all the time now on my AS.  Really find I cannot overpower it upwind or on flat since my technique improved.

So for racing that 78 should be fine.  Pretty sure most cannot paddle as fast as Connor with his somewhat small 82 -> or Fiona with her 75 for that matter.  ;)
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: PonoBill on April 09, 2018, 08:21:42 PM
It's Dave Chun. Kialoa's catch above their area because Dave doesn't like dihedral.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on April 09, 2018, 08:52:56 PM
I can see Daves point, in some respects the dihedral is to SUP paddles what the cavity-back is to golf clubs.  While we might all like to say we hit forged irons, most of us shoot straighter with the larger sweet spot of a cavity back. 
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: burchas on April 10, 2018, 05:21:55 AM
That's a very aggressive paddle. Reading the details it's all about power so I don't expect it to
be comfortable, even at 78:

- Super stiff shaft
- Shorter than usual blade for extra stiffness
- 8 degree offset for short fast stiff stroke

If I meant business at 60 strokes per minute this would probably be the paddle,
otherwise, it would just make me feel stiff after a paddle ;) course racing it is.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 10, 2019, 07:48:38 PM
Anyone using (or tested) the Ewalu lately?
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: burchas on January 10, 2019, 09:03:19 PM
Anyone using (or tested) the Ewalu lately?

Yes. Very aggressive paddle, Super stiff.  They weren't kidding around with this one. Only had couple
of hours on it. Not enough time to adjust and realize the benefits (if any) of an 8 degrees blade.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 11, 2019, 03:31:37 AM
Thanks burchas, I guess the 8 degree blade angle makes sense for someone who paddles aggressively in a very bent-forward position because the are pulling the paddle more vertically.  Maybe not for me, since I’m more of a vertical paddler.

Did you hear that Kialoa and Werner are now combined?
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: burchas on January 11, 2019, 06:12:55 AM
Thanks burchas, I guess the 8 degree blade angle makes sense for someone who paddles aggressively in a very bent-forward position because the are pulling the paddle more vertically.  Maybe not for me, since I’m more of a vertical paddler.

Did you hear that Kialoa and Werner are now combined?

I'm not sure what to make of it. Sounds a lot like a acquihire to get Werner into Outrigger / Dragon boat markets.
These are the only segments they don't overlap.

Will be interesting to see if they'll keep the brand separate or just swallow it in a year or so and just keep the moniker on certain products.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 11, 2019, 07:18:15 AM
From my personal viewpoint, it seems that QB paddles are more visible in racing than any other brand at the moment.  Perhaps the new business combination might serve to level that out a bit.

In the dragon boat market you have other players like ZRE and Hornet - who by the way make a pretty good low-cost SUP paddle.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: burchas on January 11, 2019, 08:02:58 AM
From my personal viewpoint, it seems that QB paddles are more visible in racing than any other brand at the moment.  Perhaps the new business combination might serve to level that out a bit.

In the dragon boat market you have other players like ZRE and Hornet - who by the way make a pretty good low-cost SUP paddle.

It certainly seems like a good play. That's why I think it's more of a acquihire. Though it does seem Werner has a big hole in their Outrigger game which Kialoa can fill along with
a loyal customer base. I'm just more curious about Kialoa sup offerings, quite different design concept which I favor over Werner's.

BTW, there was a big push for the Hornet on the last NYC SEA paddle. They even have a SEA specific model. Have you tried one? What are your thoughts about this paddle?
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Dusk Patrol on January 11, 2019, 08:47:31 AM

From  Distressed Mullet on the merger:

https://distressedmullet.com/2019/01/05/kialoa-joins-werner-paddles-werner-to-take-over-production/?mc_cid=81c3f2684c&mc_eid=6f4d3d327a
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 11, 2019, 10:02:34 AM
...BTW, there was a big push for the Hornet on the last NYC SEA paddle. They even have a SEA specific model. Have you tried one? What are your thoughts about this paddle?

No, but I've been pretty satisfied with their 95 for surf.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Area 10 on January 11, 2019, 12:23:35 PM
Thanks burchas, I guess the 8 degree blade angle makes sense for someone who paddles aggressively in a very bent-forward position because the are pulling the paddle more vertically.  Maybe not for me, since I’m more of a vertical paddler.

Did you hear that Kialoa and Werner are now combined?
The Black Project Surge surf paddle also has a 8 degree blade angle. So I suspect that the new Kialoa is oriented very much towards sprints and wave catching. It might work well for short, fast, shallow strokes using a short paddle.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 11, 2019, 01:32:48 PM
I see that A10, the BP Hydro (their race paddle) is also 8 deg and also comes in a 78sq in blade.

Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: burchas on January 11, 2019, 01:50:45 PM
I see that A10, the BP Hydro (their race paddle) is also 8 deg and also comes in a 78sq in blade.

In that case you can add Werner Rip Stick at 7 degree and 79sqi to the party.
And don't forget that ZRE offers 0-15 offset option to choose from any size from 60-135sqi.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Luc Benac on January 11, 2019, 02:21:12 PM
I see that A10, the BP Hydro (their race paddle) is also 8 deg and also comes in a 78sq in blade.

I really like it but you have to be conscious of putting a good stroke. I find that there is some adaptation time needed when switching from a 8 degrees to a 10 degrees.
I prefer it for flat rather than down-wind. I use the Mana or the Salish for that.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 11, 2019, 03:06:40 PM
The Kialoa/Werner "partnership" won't be clear since both are privately-held companies. It sounds odd, and generally in business, odd doesn't last. If it's not an acquisition then the natural tensions between competing companies will mount. I know that at least some of Kialoa's production used to be from an independent composite manufacturing company in Bingen, Washington, across the river from Hood River. I don't know how much was done there recently. At one time Werner had a fairly deep technical bench, but I thought that went away about a decade ago. Trying to understand what's going on at privately held companies is like reading tea leaves, but generally, announcements like this are not good news.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: burchas on January 11, 2019, 05:38:03 PM
The Kialoa/Werner "partnership" won't be clear since both are privately-held companies. It sounds odd, and generally in business, odd doesn't last. If it's not an acquisition then the natural tensions between competing companies will mount. I know that at least some of Kialoa's production used to be from an independent composite manufacturing company in Bingen, Washington, across the river from Hood River. I don't know how much was done there recently. At one time Werner had a fairly deep technical bench, but I thought that went away about a decade ago. Trying to understand what's going on at privately held companies is like reading tea leaves, but generally, announcements like this are not good news.

As far as I understand it is an acquisition. Werner is taking on the production of the Kialoa brand. Meg and Dave will
take on sales, marketing and community outreach. Whether it is good or bad news I guess time will tell.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 11, 2019, 07:18:40 PM
Not too uncommon for the principles of the acquired company to stay on for a while, especially if they are as well regarded in the industry as Meg and Dave.  This will allow some of their personal goodwill to transfer to the acquirer.  And, if there is an earn out component, they will have a front row seat.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 23, 2019, 06:34:54 PM
Anyone try the Werner Apex?  Apparently more of a concave back blade like the V drive or starboard Lima...
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: burchas on January 23, 2019, 09:25:18 PM
Anyone try the Werner Apex?  Apparently more of a concave back blade like the V drive or starboard Lima...

Haven't tried it but out of all the variations I've used I have to say
I found the look of it the most appealing. That said, I don't think
it would function differently than the others and I'm not a fan of
the outline either. Lima's outline imo makes the most sense for
everyday users as far physical impact but still preserving the
benefits of this design.

I've used the v-drive for years on and off, logged long hours on
the Lima and recently the bp Kai Zen and half a dozen variations on
the same concept.

What made the biggest impact for me was the shaft and grip options
available for all the paddles. I don't find Werner's offering in that
department the most appealing.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Area 10 on January 23, 2019, 11:57:26 PM
Yes, I agree. The handle and shaft are an overlooked part of the equation. I have 3  v-drives with the same blades that have each of the available shafts: round, round tapered, and tapered oval shafts, and so can easily feel the difference that this makes. And it does.

And yes, I also agree that the Werner shape is going to give probably a rather abrupt catch which non-elites might find a bit wearing. For me, the Lima goes a little bit too far, and perhaps the perfect compromise hasn’t quite been found yet. But in the meantime, the original v-drive remains the best, IMO. Dave Kalama did a great job with it.

I wish Werner would offer different handles. That handle design sticks IMO. Maybe when they have “merged” with Kialoa, they will start offering Kialoa-style handles.

Werner’s general presentation is generally much more like what I associate with inland canoeing than the rather more glamourous ocean sports style. So the prices of Kialoa-branded products at the top end might need to come down perhaps, to match the rather more “down to Earth” demographic and marketing sheen.

I like the blade outline of the GL Kialoa blades. Something could definitely be done with that.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Luc Benac on January 24, 2019, 07:25:41 AM
Yes, I agree. The handle and shaft are an overlooked part of the equation. I have 3  v-drives with the same blades that have each of the available shafts: round, round tapered, and tapered oval shafts, and so can easily feel the difference that this makes. And it does.

I have all my blades BP Hydro, Kenalu Mana, Blackfish Andaman & Salish mounted on the same shaft Kenalu Xtuf(S). I would never consider buying a blade/paddle for which you cannot interchange the shaft. A friend of mine has a Trifecta with a round non tapered shaft and it is horrible from both his account and mine. The same blade with the tapered shaft is great. I guess that this is why QB charged $150 more for the better shaft.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 24, 2019, 08:13:25 AM
I've used the v-drive for years on and off, logged long hours on
the Lima and recently the bp Kai Zen and half a dozen variations on
the same concept.

I paddled a Kai Zen for a couple weeks back in August in Waikiki.  Thought I would hate it, but after a couple of surf sessions found it to be really good.  For a small blade (82), it really seemed to hold well.  The one I used had a soft shaft which in the surf worked really well.  A stiffer (and lighter) shaft would be better, for me, for distance paddling.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 24, 2019, 08:18:12 AM
I like the blade outline of the GL Kialoa blades. Something could definitely be done with that.

A classic outline for sure, in fact I will be using my GL inspired Hulu (small blade) until I can figure out which paddle suits me best.  Hoping for some good demos this spring.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: mrbig on January 24, 2019, 08:48:33 AM
Own Kenalu and Kialoa. Have tried Werner, QB, and Black P.

For surf I recently bought another Kialoa. The GL Surf Wahine. Small shaft, nice grip, small blade, and on the Wahini the lower edge is less teardroped.

BP had no catch and a guy I know snapped one. Handle on the Werner horrible. Trifecta not so much,  and the QB surf not for me.

Would love to try a XRE just to see. I have a sneaking suspicion the reason I was unable to complete an order on the new kioloa race paddle was when they were shutting down.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 24, 2019, 09:19:43 AM
My shoulder "happiness" varies, so having the ability to change shafts is a big deal. I like the precision and firm power of the standard Ke Nalu shafts, but when my shoulders are acting up I need the medicine of the xTuf(S). They actually make my shoulder feel better than NOT paddling. I've done the transitions enough times to feel somewhat certain of that, despite the obvious opportunity for Placebo effect.

I also can't tolerate flat blades well--I suspect my shoulder stability doesn't appreciate compensating for blade wobble. Even in short canoe paddles the Kialoa blades are tiring, where my Puakea paddle with dihedral is not. I love the look and feel of the Kialoa, so I keep coming back to it, but after an hour of hard paddling my shoulders feel spent, while I can go much longer and harder with Puakea.

Paddles are personal. What works well for one person doesn't work at all for another.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 24, 2019, 09:27:40 AM
Hey PB, have the Paukea paddles changed much since the SUP ATX affiliation?  Seems like a bargain at $220 for a  Catch 22.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Luc Benac on January 24, 2019, 10:39:53 AM
BP had no catch and a guy I know snapped one.

With the 8 degree offset and the dihydral, I mostly use my BP Hydro for flat water and training. It keeps you honest on good form.
DW or bumps, I use the Mana of the Salish.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 24, 2019, 12:13:21 PM
... I have a sneaking suspicion the reason I was unable to complete an order on the new kioloa race paddle was when they were shutting down.

It doesn't seem like the Ewalu is offered with the oval shaft, that's kind of a deal breaker for me.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: mrbig on January 24, 2019, 12:59:58 PM
Just heard from Jim K. They decided to accept my order this time. Maybe a new paddle will appease the weather dragons!
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: burchas on January 24, 2019, 01:22:04 PM
I paddled a Kai Zen for a couple weeks back in August in Waikiki.  Thought I would hate it, but after a couple of surf sessions found it to be really good.  For a small blade (82), it really seemed to hold well.  The one I used had a soft shaft which in the surf worked really well.  A stiffer (and lighter) shaft would be better, for me, for distance paddling.

I'm still undecided on my Kai Zen. There is a lot to like but some drawbacks.
The one I got (82sqi) has a fairly stiff shaft. and I don't remember other flex options
so I guess it depends on how much and where you cut it to achieve certain flex.

The fact the blade weighs over 10oz is somewhat puzzling, it almost equals my entire
ZRE race paddle. Swing balance is definitely affected and a 20oz paddle is certainly not a
long distance runner up for my taste but I do like it for surf.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: burchas on January 24, 2019, 01:22:25 PM
For me, the Lima goes a little bit too far, and perhaps the perfect compromise hasn’t quite been found yet. But in the meantime, the original v-drive remains the best, IMO. Dave Kalama did a great job with it.

Yes, still haven't found a perfect compromise but came close.

Modified my 91 V-Drive with a much more rounded outline and attached it to my ZRE
oval textured shaft with my custom ZRE grip. I can now mount it on all my shaft according
to the flex I need. It has a 10in adjustment and it's also a 3 piece travel. coming in at 16.5oz.

Dave Kalama really did a great job with it, I just put some finishing touches on it :D
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: PonoBill on January 24, 2019, 02:18:42 PM
Hey PB, have the Paukea paddles changed much since the SUP ATX affiliation?  Seems like a bargain at $220 for a  Catch 22.

I don't know much about them, I just bought one from Johnny when he was in Hood River a few years ago teaching a class at the HROCC. At the time I was using a Kenalu Maliko blade on a short xTuf shaft with a T handle. It worked OK, but the Puakea blade worked much better with the technique Johnny teaches.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 24, 2019, 08:59:32 PM
The tried and true philosophy of, find some quality equipment, and then adapt yourself to it.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: RideTheGlide on January 25, 2019, 03:49:39 AM
The tried and true philosophy of, find some quality equipment, and then adapt yourself to it.
Back in my whitewater kayak days (way back; some guy named Ronnie was president), going through a rapid in a new/unfamiliar boat could be terrifying even when it was an obvious upgrade. Paddles affected your roll; a paddle upgrade could make you swim a little more often until you got used to it. You might miss an eddy or two, which can be a big deal in some situations (DAMHIKT). It usually took some time to adapt, but if it was a solid choice based on the experience others had, you would benefit from the switch. Just not always right away.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Area 10 on January 25, 2019, 04:35:59 AM
I think that the process of changing things in itself can be beneficial, so sometimes the gains afterwards are not due to the equipment but to the fact that you had to adapt to something new and have therefore learnt something in the process. It’s good to change things around and try new things.
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: Bean on January 25, 2019, 06:51:05 AM
I agree A10, but it's interesting hearing from some SUP-foilers that foiling has a negative impact on their regular stand up abilities.  I wonder if the SUP-foilers that blend regular SUP in their traing will feel differently over time. 

The only example I can think of is Kai at London, killed the sprint but not so much in the distance...
Title: Re: New Kialoa "Ewalu" sup paddle
Post by: mrbig on February 04, 2019, 08:29:07 AM
My Kialoa Wahine showed. Better for me as a surf paddle than some others that are popular here.

High aspect, small shaft, and a little longer. Even with the top of my punkin' head.

Worked a treat in small waves. Never missed any that I should catch.

I remember how much I liked a high aspect that I borrowed a while back. It had an aweful handle though.