Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: iDownwind on April 06, 2018, 07:22:22 AM
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Hey all.... I have been using a 10' coiled leash from Creatures of Leisure for about two years now and I really like it. While on vacation here in Florida, I picked up another one. When I got back to the house with it, I noticed it says it's a
"flatwater-race" leash. Now while I do paddle flat water, it is also my go to leash for downwinding. Now that I read the label on the Creatures leash, I am a bit concerned about using it in bigger conditions. I am going to keep this one, but I am wondering if anyone can suggest another coiled option that is rated for surf use?
Thanks.
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I don't think realibily of this leash for dw is somehow compromised. They just write it so to avoid responsibility that your leash can somehow recoil your board at you. I wouldn't be worried. Although in heavy stuff I go for a straight leash.
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iD... In the early 2000s I used one kiting, but then the general consensus changed to ...'about the last thing you needed while getting your ass-handed-to-you was 4' board following at high speed'. I don't believe the actual reel effect is sufficient to make the 'come to papa' (especially on a large board) dangerous; I would guess the dog leash internals do not have the strength to stand up to a cleanup set. I would suggest a decent ankle/knee/waist leash.
Jim
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What is its cord diameter? Usually heavy condition leashes are 5/16. Lighter conditions can be 3/16. Maybe your CofL 'flatwater' is on the narrow side? I have some beefy Dakine leashes that are coiled. I use the calf variety, just to keep out from underfoot.
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I just checked the leash package.... 10' x 5/16", Calf leash. I would prefer a 12 foot coiled calf leash, but this works for now. I typically don't SUP surf when conditions get too heavy on the Great Lakes. If it's clean, up to 6' or a bit bigger is it. Downwinding can be up to 10' before things get too mixed up and crazy.
Do you guys think I am ok with the Creatures leash? Or should I find something that is well known for its toughness and durability....?
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I wouldn't recommend coil leashes for surfing. Saw a guy last year take the top of his finger off when it got caught up in the coil following a wipe out.
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Never use SUP leashes with SUP surfing, well except a calf leash on my noserider. A long SUP leash (10' or so) is a pain.
In big stuff, I use the Ocean and Earth 6' Premium leash, it's rock solid, no real stretch. On smaller stuff, I use a generic Dakine 7' leash. I'm on mostly 8' to 9' boards.
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I hate coiled leashes. They have caused me more pain than they are worth. Never use them for surfing.
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I just checked the leash package.... 10' x 5/16", Calf leash....Do ryou guys think I am ok with the Creatures leash? Or should I find something that is well known for its toughness and durability....?
Creatures is fine, but would agree that coils are best for keeping the leash out of the water when distance paddling. For smaller waves, coil is fine but will loose some rebound.
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I have always used coiled leashes with SUP. I like my board heading back to me after a crash so I have a better chance of escaping a pounding. When I used a regular leash it seemed to take forever to recover the board. The down side is when in kelp things can get tangled up pretty good.
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Some time ago I tested the recoil of coiled leashes that broke at the swivel. The recoil velocity is enough to penetrate plywood. It's not the springiness of the coil, it's the torsion that the cool applies to the Urethane and the angle of the force. For a straight leash, the recoil force is in line with the leash, so it just contracts. For a coil leash as you straighten the leash the coil straightening twistd the urethane, and the force is applied at a slight angle, so it snaps back rather than retracting. I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. I use heavy coiled leashes for downwind and foiling--I need to make something better for foiling, it's not ideal. I DO NOT use coiled leashes for surfing. A broken swivel could certainly penetrate your skull. I suspect the manufacturers tested this on their own--it was a controversy about eight years ago, and I'm sure they were as surprised as I was and came to the same conclusion--not for surfing.
You can test it yourself. Take the leg cuff off the swivel--it's held on with an Allen screw that a fin key fits. Feed paracord through the swivel so you can hold it well. Attach the rail saver to a fence. Walk back and apply as much force as you can manage, then release one end of the cord. WHAM. Do the same thing with a straight leash and it falls to the ground with no drama.
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That was a great test Bill — an important point; even small bits can do harm at speed.
Jim
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You've explained this before PB, this time it may have actually sunk in. Constructional stretch vs. elastic stretch?
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yup. The misdirection is that the urethane spring is obviously too weak to be dangerous, it only takes a few ounces of force to stretch it a few feet. But the spring is formed by flattening the rope on one side, probably with a heated mandrel. I think that at the extremes of stretching the energy is stored in twisting the urethane and it can store a lot of energy. I think its also important that it's released radially instead of just contracting. It lets the swivel clear the rope.
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Well I don't need a further reduction in my mental performance so maybe I need to revisit my leash choice. But first I'll see if I can create a fallback so it is restrained when the swivel fails. I never really thought of the stored energy in the leash as anything more then my board butler.
This could be a great murder weapon for a crime drama that films at the beach. Hawaii Five O?
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If your leash is two years old it's marginal anyway. I test all mine to failure each year--if I haven't already done that in the surf. Test day 2018 is coming up soon. You might wonder how many have broken or pulled out the swivel over the years. Three broken, three pulled. Creatures of Leisure leashes often use a pressed in swivel on the cuff with no screw or pin retaining it. Admittedly that sends the swivel the wrong way to injure you but might not do your board much good. I don't know the total number of leashes I've pulled apart with my truck and the post in the middle of my garage, but figure I've been doing this for ten years and it's probably five leashes per year. So fifty leashes, six projectiles. Twelve percent. Don't be afraid of sharks, be afraid of leash swivels.
Maybe I can get Diane to shoot video this year.
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Question:
After a fall, your leg is underwater
I imagine the volume of coil meets significant resistance from the water...
The “spring back” must be reduced dramatically when interactiing with a liquid.
Would it pose the same tbreat underwater as in the air?
I would never wear a coil in surf for the very reaso that it meers too much resistance when dragging in water, and slows you down.
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I would agree STC. In that scenario, I would expect that the swivel would be dragged harmlessly through the water. But what about when you launch yourself off the lip? Huh? ;D
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Waist belt with a half coil works fine for me. Never ever step on it, no drag, and I had one break in OH waves and nothing went whizzing by. I learned to swim. YMMV!
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Question:
After a fall, your leg is underwater
I imagine the volume of coil meets significant resistance from the water...
The “spring back” must be reduced dramatically when interactiing with a liquid.
Would it pose the same tbreat underwater as in the air?
I would never wear a coil in surf for the very reaso that it meers too much resistance when dragging in water, and slows you down.
My testing of coiled leashes started when I read a post by someone who had a swivel bury in their board. I didn't believe there could be any additional force applied from the leash being coiled. I was wrong, the force is substantial. Having your leash snap back at you is no big deal, until it suddeenly. If that wasn't kind of important we'd still have leashes made like bungee cords, and Jack O'Neill would have had two eyes. The reason leashes are made of urethane cord is that it won't snap back. Modifying the Urethane so that it DOES snap back and taking that into big surf seems a bit counterproductive.
In the most energetic situation, where your board is stuck in a wave and you are being dragged, your foot is near the surface and your board is above it. Having your leash break then is nasty enough without having the leash come at you like a whip. There are a dozen reasons why coiled leashes aren't a good idea for surfing. This is just one more.
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Coil=Recoil! If that is what you are looking for great but recoil in the surf just doesn't seem like a good match to me. I know when I get caught inside the last thing I would want is a recoil. The board is attached to you so it is going to recoil at you. Can't see that being a good thing if you get caught inside.