Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Downwind and Racing => Topic started by: mrbig on March 24, 2018, 12:25:07 PM
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Last summer I borrowed a 404 LTD and a 404 V3. Ended up buying a 14' Go-Go after Danny informed me that it is the most stable of the line. Designed as a BOP style board that is fast, but also surfs well.
I competed in four races last year on it and had some decent results. Have paddled all winter #livinginadrysuit and have finally settled on a fin that is stable and fast. It has a big skull on it and was designed by Larry Allison.
I deal with crazy boat wakes, seaplanes, tidal voodoo chap and have crappy balance as a result of my SCA and more damage than Evel K.
Upright fins that are faster in clean conditions seem to "hunt" in DW and chop. Low volume racer fins suck in chop. This monster works for me!
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Pic!
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Nice! I think I know what you're saying about more vertical fins "hunting".
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A person’s DW fin choice tends to evolve over time. It will be interesting to see if you are still using this fin in a couple of years.
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A10, if I was looking for a dedicated DW fin this wouldn't be it! I would go right back to an old Maui Fin Company that is spectacular on "downbreezers". Cross and side not so much!
Open Ocean downwinding with large swells, and crazy wind no idea what I would like. My "down breezers" max out at 30 knots and are very short period swells chest to head high max. But you might have to contend with several all in the 14' length.
During the Crazy Storm there were overhead swells in the corner of Pleasant Bay. 94 mph gusts. Eddie would NOT go! Water kook took a little vid..
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I deal with crazy boat wakes, seaplanes, tidal voodoo chap and have crappy balance as a result of my SCA and more damage than Evel K.
Upright fins that are faster in clean conditions seem to "hunt" in DW and chop. Low volume racer fins suck in chop. This monster works for me!
Yep have 2 Elites and 1 Hybrid Gladiator fin. Are perfectly ok fins even for DW so long as you stay ahead of the bump. If not the bump behind can push the tail and cause handling problems for any large area fin. Normally for DW will use the SIC 8.3 or 7.0 or even the plain jane plastic FCS Touring. All work fine even the often dissed JL Tracker.
Both my Dom and AS came with Gladiator Elite fins. Have been using on my AS to help slow the roll in messy slop chop and has allowed me to stay dry for over a year now in all conditions. But on my Dom pretty much always plop in the SIC 7.0 so that board can turn faster and have lower drag.
Edit: Haha! Tried to delete a pic but it just added another. Oops. ;D
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Ya! And the Skull rules!🤣
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Minor distinction, but it is a Gladiator helmet, not a technically a skull. Just sayin. 8). My two cents: I prefer the SIC 7.0 for downwind and quartering also. Allows the board to slip in a controlled fashion and not get whacked around. Too me a few years to realize that smaller is better in the roughs. Very Counterintuitive. Try it and you might like it too.
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It's supposed to be a Gladiator helmet, but isn't it really a Spartain helmet ;D
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^ likely.
I do believe DWing is my agoge training.
MrBig, work your way down to a smaller fin and let us know! I don't have a Go-Go to ride.
I find on gets used to a fin. So need to use one for a few weeks and then come back to the one that was used before. It's a slow evolution to find your favorite. The smaller ones are better in crossed up conditions or quartering I find.
The Gladiator shape is pretty efficient - from the point of view of surface area with respect to depth. Where I ride there are a lot of weeds in summer. I like the Slater Trout. It's the perfect balance of : surface area with respext to depth / not to much draft / good leadig edge angle for weeds / light
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So need to use one for a few weeks and then come back to the one that was used before. It's a slow evolution to find your favorite. The smaller ones are better in crossed up conditions or quartering I find.
Very true. Even after months of using a fin, you sometime just feel like using something else that you were not using before. Maybe as technique changes in a subtle way.
That is why I have sometime a hard time letting go of fins even if I use them only once in a blue moon.
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Just when you thought it was safe. Raced the Go-Go in open ocean swells, placed, caught a wave to pass some folks, and then caught a rail. Surfing the 14' Go-Go interesting. Shuda practiced! Different than downbreezing which is easy on the Monstah!
Using a Makini instead of the Gladiator.
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It's supposed to be a Gladiator helmet, but isn't it really a Spartain helmet ;D
The helmet is a hellenic design worn by ancient Greeks, Spartans, etc. There were many different designs of the basic helmet which can be see in the link below.
http://www.hellenic-art.com/armour/smallhelmets/
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Have been surfing a long time. Have a collection of long board fins which has been augmented by a bunch of race fins.
In the Go-Go the Gladiator is the most
stable. The hand shaped Kreith is the fastest.
The Makini is slightly more stable.
The Surfing Down Wind thread I follow with interest. In my down breezers short period experience the MFC down winder is my favorite.
Although it would be interesting to take the Rainbow Boomarang out for a spin at MTK and do some turns!🏄🦈🤣
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Which one is the Kreith?
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Should be Keith not Kreith. It's all the way to the right between a Makini Roto and Fatboy Longboard.
Keith McCulloch fins now used in all NSP raceboards.
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Interesting feedback. The Keith McCulloch looks fast.
I have a Fluid Foils hatchet too. Must have got it over 10 years ago. Used that early years DWing. Liked the added stability. Then moved to dolphin fins and now use an FCS Slater Trout. Same as your black FCS but smaller a waaaay lighter.
A LA Gladiator, or the Fluid Foils hatchet or the black FCS you have are fins which maximise surface area for their length. I find that handy for beach starts with rocky bottoms where you don’t want scratch your fin.
I find one gets used to a fin. I’ve swapped and compared less than you. I played around with millions of fins windsurfing. Where a spinout is something you really want to avoid. Turns out avoiding spinouts comes down a lot to rider skill.
The Gladiator’s square edges would worry me for fast speeds but at our speeds I’m sure doesn’t matter and is just a look.
I like the Slater Trout largely because I liked the Hatchet shape and it’s very short, light, quick to put in (click in) and likely fairly efficient for least drag. I’m happy with Dolphin’s as well which I break out for bigger days.
Check out these fins on Thai longtail boats. The one is the foreground is so basic. The 2 behind are nice clean shapes.
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Check out these fins on Thai longtail boats. The one is the foreground is so basic. The 2 behind are nice clean shapes.
That's essentially the Aercor fin. If you don't like how your Maliko is turning you might want
to give this one a try.
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I know. I’d like to get one.
[Even if it isn’t the fin that makes a Maliko non turny. Jimmy Lewis’ M14 is turny even with it’s utra wide original fin. But that’s another discussion.]
Funny thing is we used to have lots of these kinds of fins in windsurfing early days. Now windsurf fins are all daggers. Of course speeds are very different.
Speaking of windsurfing it’s the 40’th anniversary of Schweitzer and Drakes Windsurfer this year. And is making an interesting comeback with course racing events. For those who remember the fin it was so puny (and flimsy).
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Check out these fins on Thai longtail boats. The one is the foreground is so basic. The 2 behind are nice clean shapes.
That's essentially the Aercor fin. If you don't like how your Maliko is turning you might want
to give this one a try.
You just reminded me to dust of my Aercor and use it more often. Specially on the rudderless Ace-GT.
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My first 12'6" was an Exocet Marlin with NSP like log rolling "stability". That led to my MFC experiments. A huge fin should solve that problem.
And I just bought a NOS 404 V 3 12'6". Racing tomorrow on a dammed (not damned) river.
Huge water ski wakes and seaplane landings led to the Gladiator. What's the most stable monster out there?
The Makini and the McCulloch are fast, but my balance skillz limit their use to glassy conditions.
The Makini Roto is slightly slower, but way more stable. Aercor looks interesting to say the least!
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Huge water ski wakes and seaplane landings led to the Gladiator. What's the most stable monster out there?
One fin that answers that call is the LA Ninja. Surprisingly fast for a 10" deep.
I replaced it with the LA GTX, only 8.5" but just as stable, I only use it serious ocean
mess though. You might want to start with the LA GTS, same template only 7.5" deep,
should be around the 50sqi so plenty of surface good tip hold but still surfy. very versatile fin.
As a side note, the best setup I found for the conditions you describe it the GTS with the
addition of the Abuelo ventral. This setup works magic to the point you want believe it is
the same board when you ride it area with heavy boat wakes and general washing machine
conditions.
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I know. I’d like to get one.
[Even if it isn’t the fin that makes a Maliko non turny.] You could easily move the fin box
8" forward (for the 14x26 ) you should see improvement. Nothing we can do about the outline.
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The Great Stone Dam Race went off without a hitch.
NE winds gusting to 20. Chop up to 3 feet.
I was on my 12'6" 404 V 3. Oops. Used the Makini Roto. Never fell. Average speed a little higher, top speed a little slower. All of the info on the V3 being not fun in cross, beam seas are true.
The NECKLA officials ran an awesome event. My curiosity led me to ask if this was the most difficult of the eight years because of the wind.
The response was a loud affirmative.
Blame Florence!🤣
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Nothing is fun in cross, beam seas. But the view is better than doing squats in the gym.
Why not use your GoGo?
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I had just bought the V3 and wanted to do a skillz evaluation in non ocean conditions.