Standup Zone Forum

Stand Up Paddle => Downwind and Racing => Topic started by: APPST_Paddle on March 17, 2018, 05:40:02 PM

Title: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on March 17, 2018, 05:40:02 PM
I may have posted this before, but I'm pondering getting a race board just for one more option to get on the water. I'm in an area (Charleston, SC) that has a pretty solid racing scene, and I could see maybe doing some comps later on just for fun.

I'm not looking to downwind, if it's windy, I'm kiting, if there's surf, I'm SUS, this will take a backseat to those 2 disciplines.

Some background info:
Weight: around 175 lbs
I'm getting more comfortable on lower volume boards, I'm down to 112L right now (8'8" SuperTech) and will probably move down more soon, so I could stand to go pretty skinny.

I have a creek that at +/- 2 hours of high tide I can get out on from my backyard, but I'm also thinking about storage issues if I go with a 14' board my garage walls are full of boards (I have 3 SUP already and 2 kiteboards). So, any ideas regarding exterior storage (not worried about someone stealing it, just want to protect it).

I'd also probably have to get either a new shaft for my backup paddle (KeNalu Ho'oloa 95) to make it longer, as it's cut right now to head high.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: supthecreek on March 17, 2018, 06:11:37 PM
Hi APPST,
If you want to do a head to head comparison and demo lots of boards, take a trip up to Wilmington for the Carolina Cup.
Many brands there, on the intercoastal side beach, with reps to talk to and boards to paddle.
Really fun event, awesome SUP community to mix it up with.

Here's a link to the event and info.
I may be able to hook you up with a great Air B&B... owned by a great guy, surfer, Paddler. 4 miles from the race venue.

Stop by the Sunova tent, meet James Casey and the crew.
I may be there as well... at least the 1st 2 days, come say hi!

http://wrightsvillebeachpaddleclub.com/carolina-cup/
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on March 17, 2018, 07:04:18 PM
Hi APPST,
If you want to do a head to head comparison and demo lots of boards, take a trip up to Wilmington for the Carolina Cup.
Many brands there, on the intercoastal side beach, with reps to talk to and boards to paddle.
Really fun event, awesome SUP community to mix it up with.

Here's a link to the event and info.
I may be able to hook you up with a great Air B&B... owned by a great guy, surfer, Paddler. 4 miles from the race venue.

Stop by the Sunova tent, meet James Casey and the crew.
I may be there as well... at least the 1st 2 days, come say hi!

http://wrightsvillebeachpaddleclub.com/carolina-cup/

Yeah, I was going last year and work got in the way. I'm from Wilmington originally and my parents live there, so it's an easy trip. I'll probably do that, good idea.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: ukgm on March 18, 2018, 01:44:28 AM
Why not a good race 14ft inflatable ? No storage issues and some of the race offerings from Red or starboard are surprisingly competitive.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Area 10 on March 18, 2018, 09:06:46 AM
Why not a good race 14ft inflatable ? No storage issues and some of the race offerings from Red or starboard are surprisingly competitive.
Or you could just fill your underpants with stinging nettles before you go paddling. The effect would be the same. :)
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: robon on March 18, 2018, 11:17:01 AM
If you have no worries about storing a board outside, then you could build or buy a free standing rack with a roof/overhang/lean-to for shade and protection, or attach a rack to the outside of you garage. I would much rather have a composite board over an inflatable if you have room for storage. 
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on March 18, 2018, 04:58:05 PM
Yeah, I think I have room in my garage now, there's roughly 15' by about 3' of space at the bottom of the wall.

Not doing an inflatable, that just sounds like a nightmare maneuvering through oyster beds. I'm going to try out a 14' BIC Tracer from a local here at some point.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: ukgm on March 19, 2018, 02:14:59 AM
Why not a good race 14ft inflatable ? No storage issues and some of the race offerings from Red or starboard are surprisingly competitive.
Or you could just fill your underpants with stinging nettles before you go paddling. The effect would be the same. :)

(now that made me roar with laughter out loud)
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: singingdog on March 19, 2018, 03:49:30 AM
I'm going to try out a 14' BIC Tracer from a local here at some point.

The Tracers are nice boards. BIG difference between the Tracer and the Tracer WC. If you want to race, go straight to the WC.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Rideordie on March 19, 2018, 05:14:21 AM
Good idea to go to Carolina Cup. You may or may not get a chance to test the top race boards. It depends on who/ what shows up and you never really know. However, it is worthwhile for whatever change you have, which is rare. You can learn a lot at the race by watching other racers. Look at what they are riding and ask a lot of questions. They may let you test their boards if you ask nicely. You will see many of the current top race brands. Starboard, SIC, Infinity, 404, NSP, etc.  I don’t rank BIC. At your size and balance, I think you could handle a 24 to 25 inch wide 14 footer with no problem. Just be careful which shape you select, as some are more stable than others. The higher probability is that you may end up selecting a board that you may not have had a chance to ride.  For that. There is no better source of great free unbiased advice than the Zone. So asking here is very smart. If I was about to purchase a new race board, I would consider SIC RS, Infinity Blackfish and Starboard Allstar.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on March 19, 2018, 05:18:13 AM
Good idea to go to Carolina Cup. You may or may not get a chance to test the top race boards. It depends on who/ what shows up and you never really know. However, it is worthwhile for whatever change you have, which is rare. You can learn a lot at the race by watching other racers. Look at what they are riding and ask a lot of questions. They may let you test their boards if you ask nicely. You will see many of the current top race brands. Starboard, SIC, Infinity, 404, NSP, etc.  I don’t rank BIC. At your size and balance, I think you could handle a 24 to 25 inch wide 14 footer with no problem. Just be careful which shape you select, as some are more stable than others. The higher probability is that you may end up selecting a board that you may not have had a chance to ride.  For that. There is no better source of great free unbiased advice than the Zone. So asking here is very smart. If I was about to purchase a new race board, I would consider SIC RS, Infinity Blackfish and Starboard Allstar.

Yeah, good points all around, I've gone through quite a few SUP surf boards because of the lack of being able to try them out. I will definitely try out a race board before purchasing. Pretty sure I'm going to try out this SIC 14' locally at some point in the near future, the guy who has it sold me a SUP surfboard and is pretty active on the racing/SUP scene around here and isn't going to mislead me, so I'll probably be diving into this shortly.

I may still try and make the CC, depends on work schedules.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Area 10 on March 19, 2018, 06:32:59 AM
If I was about to purchase a new race board, I would consider SIC RS, Infinity Blackfish and Starboard Allstar.
Yes, those are the options I'd consider too. The Naish Maliko is also pretty good, especially for beach-type races. It would be worth trying the brand new model Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder that has just come out, too. I bought the SIC RS and rate it highly, so I'm obviously biased. But they are all nice boards, and it depends a lot on personal taste and the type of race events you will be doing, and the conditions you'll be paddling in. I find that the different brands develop distinct handling characteristics. This tends to reflect the particular design philosophies of the shapers/designers (and their sponsored riders). For instance, Travis Grant quite likes the feeling of a fairly rounded hull with very soft rails. So the NSP race board designs tend to have this feature. This can IMO make them slippery through the water, but also tends to give a little bit more initial roll than designs with flat bottoms and harder rails. So it largely depends on whether what you like fits with that brand's characteristics - and no-one can decide that for you.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: yugi on March 19, 2018, 08:39:39 AM
^ yep

Take note that A10, who was a staunch defender of displacement (cutting) bows for flat water, has just recently admitted his allwater nose RS is acceptable on flats too.

If ever you find yourself in choppy waters, or ever do a race, you will find an allwater nose more friendly. Hence the name.

So I'd advise getting a modern allwater board.

Ask around at Carolina cup. I expect you'd hear the same things.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: ukgm on March 19, 2018, 10:00:20 AM
^ yep

Take note that A10, who was a staunch defender of displacement (cutting) bows for flat water, has just recently admitted his allwater nose RS is acceptable on flats too.

If ever you find yourself in choppy waters, or ever do a race, you will find an allwater nose more friendly. Hence the name.

So I'd advise getting a modern allwater board.

Ask around at Carolina cup. I expect you'd hear the same things.

I would say (and with no brand affiliations on my part) that you could do far worse than getting a Starboard allstar. It has a confidence inspiring design and one of the best amount of secondhand resale. I'll also say i was sponsored by naish last year and that years maliko was very good in an array of water conditions. It wasn't that great in the flat but you could use it anywhere without problems.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: warmuth on March 19, 2018, 10:34:51 AM
  If it’s “just for fun” and “might enter a few events” then just pick up whatever meets your budget and you like the looks of. Paddle it to make sure it feels ok under your feet which it probably will given it’s not too narrow. No matter what board you buy now, you’ll either cruise around on it, which almost every reputable race board is good at, and be happy or get into racing and replace it anyway.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Rideordie on March 19, 2018, 11:31:31 AM
Be sure to check the retail prices of the 2018 boards in carbon construction:
SIC RS $2,699
Infinity blackfish $2,995
Naish Maliko $3,299
Starboard Allstar  $3,799  (Hybrid construction $2,499)


 

 
       
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on March 19, 2018, 11:35:47 AM
Pretty much any modern all water race board will go plenty fast depending on your skill and power level.  Narrower is often more efficient for paddlers with good technique and balance -> but can be terrible if balance is a problem.  So really is dependent on the rider what suits that person best. 

Definitely try as many boards as you can otherwise expect to swap for something else down the road.  Just look at this forum for examples where paddlers have switched from board to board to board -> sometimes within the same year.

Can concur with ukgm that the AS is a good AW design as have been paddling mine for a year and a half now.  The 24.5 or 25 is a good width that many race on.  If possible get one used to keep costs down.  They sell pretty quick round here.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on March 19, 2018, 11:45:30 AM
Pretty much any modern all water race board will go plenty fast depending on your skill and power level.  Narrower is often more efficient for paddlers with good technique and balance -> but can be terrible if balance is a problem.  So really is dependent on the rider what suits that person best. 

Definitely try as many boards as you can otherwise expect to swap for something else down the road.  Just look at this forum for examples where paddlers have switched from board to board to board -> sometimes within the same year.

Can concur with ukgm that the AS is a good AW design as have been paddling mine for a year and a half now.  The 24.5 or 25 is a good width that many race on.  If possible get one used to keep costs down.  They sell pretty quick round here.

Yeah, that's the plan, used 14' board and maybe add some length back to my Ke'Nalu Ho'oloa 95 (it's at head level right now).

I fully understand the progression on boards (I've switched SUP surf boards twice in the same year).
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on March 19, 2018, 02:28:12 PM
Do remember when I first started out and my 27.5 Dom felt unstable in chop.  Then dropped down to a 25 Sprint and Race to test.  Then 23 and even 21.5 to test.  Found for my purposes the 23 provided the most enjoyment overall.  But many here seem to dislike the tippy feel -> whereas I find that really improves my balance and proprioception.  The secondary stability is surprisingly good on the 23.

But as always -> everyone is different and everyone has their own ideas what suits them best.  If in no hurry just keep your eye out.  Pretty sure if your friend is a racer -> you should find a good deal on a good board.  That is how we got ours.  Was less than 50% off retail with no tax.

Just got back in after 2 miles up and 2 miles down.  More fun today than ever before in small chop.  Mainly because I am pretty relaxed now and pretty much always stay dry on that board.  Have had some little trip ups on surprise waves.  But have stayed dry.  For me that is key -> as falling in is not fun in our coldish waters.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: FloridaWindSUP on March 20, 2018, 04:34:20 AM
Definitely get a 14'

If the secondhand market in SC is anything like it is in FL, there should be a glut of cheap used raceboards to choose from on Craigslist, on the used racks in the local shops, facebook SUP groups, etc. I would get one of those "price is right" models ASAP to start getting some race practice under your belt, and then develop a better idea of what you like/dislike in a raceboard before you think about spending more money on a special model. Bic Tracer would be a fine choice.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Rideordie on March 20, 2018, 09:05:47 AM
If you want a used board then also take a look at Distressed Mullet Classifieds.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on March 20, 2018, 02:38:48 PM
Here is an example of a somewhat narrow race board on CL.  Stuff like this comes and goes all the time.  Probs if in the market for something like this would at least check it out on a test ride.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: PonoBill on March 20, 2018, 04:20:39 PM
It's an odd thing, but you may actually fall less on a tippy board than a stable one. My Bullet 17 V2 is wide and stable. The last downwinder I did with it I fell three times in 8 miles. My 12'2" X 25 KuNalu is very unstable and has little secondary stability because it's thin with rounded rails. Last time I did a downwinder with it I didn't fall at all. I think it's attention--I can think of other things on the V2, I can't on the KuNalu. The only relevance here is that you shouldn't be put off by how narrow a board is before you've tried it, and it takes more than ten minutes to know.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on March 20, 2018, 06:48:49 PM
Yeah when am on the 23 stay fully focussed and in the moment second to second in waves.  Full on concentration which is kinda fun and relaxing for me.  Whereas on my other less tippy boards my technique slides and gets sloppy as my mind wanders and thinks how boring and uninspiring this is. 

Also at 23 my paddle stays vertical easy whereas on anything wider it skews off to the side.  Really makes a big impact for me.  My 23 does also roll a lot but sets just enough on its chine giving you a split second to correct.  Without would continue to go around like the infamous discontinued Race 25 log.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: ukgm on March 21, 2018, 01:47:01 AM
Yeah when am on the 23 stay fully focussed and in the moment second to second in waves.  Full on concentration which is kinda fun and relaxing for me.  Whereas on my other less tippy boards my technique slides and gets sloppy as my mind wanders and thinks how boring and uninspiring this is.

That sounds like too much like hard work ! That kind of distraction you don't need in a race when you should be focusing on tactical decisionmaking and control of your effort, not having to concentrate on the board itself.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Rideordie on March 21, 2018, 05:11:53 AM
Many racers sell their prior season board in the spring and bring them to Carolina Cup to allow buyers to test and buy conveniently. Several nice examples on Distressed Mullet right now!! 
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on March 21, 2018, 07:05:54 AM
Haha!  Yeah never bought the 23 to race.  Simply for pleasure and to improve my balance.  In that regards it has exceeded my expectations.  By a large margin.  While not as efficient as the Sprint 21.5 -> is much better in waves.  If we lived in a flat lake environment would be paddling that Sprint or something like it. 

Have no allegiance or preference to Starboard.  Just that brand distributes from here and is readily available on the used market.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: yugi on March 23, 2018, 03:45:15 AM
Many racers sell their prior season board in the spring and bring them to Carolina Cup to allow buyers to test and buy conveniently. Several nice examples on Distressed Mullet right now!!

You can grab that Naish Javelin 2016 14 x 26 without trying. If it isn't dinged.

It's fast, stable and light. Will always sell easily.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Area 10 on March 23, 2018, 04:20:08 AM
Many racers sell their prior season board in the spring and bring them to Carolina Cup to allow buyers to test and buy conveniently. Several nice examples on Distressed Mullet right now!!

You can grab that Naish Javelin 2016 14 x 26 without trying. If it isn't dinged.

It's fast, stable and light. Will always sell easily.
Yeah that would do it. You also might find a used SIC X14-Pro now that the RS has superseded it. Fast board, and although it is intended to be flat water oriented it works in a variety of conditions.

Definitely buy used if you can, until you know exactly what suits you.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on March 31, 2018, 09:35:31 AM
Here are a couple more boards just posted -> one more for chop and one more for flat.  If familiar with progression ending up with either of the boards in the pic -> would be fine depending on your skill level achieved and what conditions you plan to race in.

As you can see -> there is a big cut in cost from MSRP.  Makes it that you can buy one of these and sell after a year without much if any depreciation.  That is how many in Van buy as the used market has top quality boards often sold at big discounts.  Just need to be patient and willing to take what becomes available.  That is a huge benefit we have in Van.  Buying like this makes SUP race progression much more palatable.  Sometimes you can even get exactly what you want.

All my boards were bought like this.  Ranging from 40% off -> all the way to 70% off MSRP with no tax.  Paddles fins board bags as well.  All in maybe $20K+ for way under 10.  So it is possible and makes sense like others have noted.  ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Salish Sea SUPer on March 31, 2018, 10:31:13 AM
Hi All,
This is my first time posting. I paddle on the ocean on the Sunshine Coast, BC. I paddle in all conditions, really enjoy down winding, and am looking for a board that will be good in all of what the ocean brings me.
I've been eying the 23" Allstar that Eagle posted but am concerned that it will be too much for me. I ride a TRX 11'6" x 29" which I love and find very stable, but I am 5'3" with a small build and I feel that it is too wide for me. I have a 26" Red Paddle Race that I don't find tippy but don't enjoy paddling, because I find it slow. Do you think going from a 29" to a 23" is too big a change? I don't want to not use it because I have to pay too much attention to my balance.
I just noticed a ONE EVO 24" has been posted. Perhaps that might be better?
Many thanks for all the great posts. I'm not a "gear" person, so I appreciate any help.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on March 31, 2018, 11:05:08 AM
Salish going from a 29 down to 23 is a pretty big jump -> but you have a 26 Red that is not tippy for you.  So going to a 24 Evo might work out for you.  Dropping from a 24.5 down to 23 is a considerable reduction in stability.  An inch or so width drop does require very quick reaction times to stay dry in slop and chop. 

Have tried the 26 Evo when it first came out and found it stable with an initial rock when you stepped aboard.  But overall too stable and wide for my purposes -> since acquiring such a diversified quiver.  The 24 Evo is also an overlap but would be a very good choice for AW for many.  Probs ok speed on flat and ok handling smaller waves.  So a good compromise board for that.  Should go ok for small DW as well.

Contact the seller.  Pretty sure you can take out that board for a quick test ride to make sure you can ride it ok.  ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Salish Sea SUPer on March 31, 2018, 11:35:24 AM
Thank you. I appreciate the info. I'll do that.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Quickbeam on March 31, 2018, 12:23:52 PM
Here is an example of a somewhat narrow race board on CL.  Stuff like this comes and goes all the time.  Probs if in the market for something like this would at least check it out on a test ride.


Hey Eagle,

You have to stop posting pictures of boards (ha! ha!). Some of them are very tempting. I hadn’t seen the above Blackfish for sale, and when you posted it I seriously considered it. I contacted the seller, who it turns out I’ve previously met. The timing just wasn’t quite right for me though, and he ended up selling to someone else. Also have to admit I wasn’t entirely sure how stable I’d be on a 22” board, but to your point in your previous post, the seller was going to let me test paddle it. So all kidding aside, please keep the pics of local boards coming. You may yet inadvertently cause me to expand my quiver  ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on March 31, 2018, 03:13:46 PM
Yeah fortunately know racers who get boards at pro deal cost then flip after they use it a few times.  Usually they are in like new condition as most do not trash their boards knowing they will sell them off soon enough.

Generally if someone does not want to bring out their board for a test ride -> they have a much tougher time unloading it.  Normally I bring a weigh scale and inspect closely for any dings or cracks.  The 25 Sprint I was going to buy years ago early on was from a local rep -> but it did have a 2" crack that was not disclosed to me.  I had go find it on my own after my test ride.  So always caveat emptor.

Have been tempted myself to get a 21.5 Sprint and a 17.4 Bullet to fill out the ends of my quiver -> but 7 boards is just too much for my wife to handle.  Even 5 boards she rolls her eyes.  Haha!  ::)
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: PonoBill on March 31, 2018, 04:11:56 PM
Yeah when am on the 23 stay fully focussed and in the moment second to second in waves.  Full on concentration which is kinda fun and relaxing for me.  Whereas on my other less tippy boards my technique slides and gets sloppy as my mind wanders and thinks how boring and uninspiring this is.

That sounds like too much like hard work ! That kind of distraction you don't need in a race when you should be focusing on tactical decisionmaking and control of your effort, not having to concentrate on the board itself.

Obviously talking about a different level of effort, concentration, and determination. In any race over half an hour I'm picking mental daisies fairly soon. On the last downwinder I did I was thinking mostly how our brains have to assemble every model of sight and hearing from disparate components with varied resolution that seems to be one continuous thing but isn't, while smell is just one thing plus memory, and then I was wondering why my big toes point in such odd directions.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on March 31, 2018, 04:48:38 PM
Haha!  What I always seem to think about is how bloody hot it is when turning DW after a quick 2 mile blast upwind.  For some reason sweat bullets trying to catch wave after wave while constantly micro-balancing switching from regular to goofy.  This I have concluded is what has made skiing big steep bumps and snowboarding so very easy this year. 

The difficulty balancing on the AS in waves DW is so much order of magnitude more taxing on my brain -> it makes balancing on skis or a SB a cinch.  That and I put big studio headphones in my helmet earflaps this year.  So allows me to completely zone out on my technique and just go with the music and flow down a run.  Has made a huge difference trusting my body and subconscious to adapt as necessary and just do what it knows to do.

On both SUP and skiing/SB and pretty much any other activity have tunes playing now.  But oddly mentioned this to a buddy and for him -> tunes detract and are a negative.  So everyone is different.  In the old days needed quiet to concentrate and think what next to do.  Nowadays not so much.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Quickbeam on March 31, 2018, 06:37:27 PM
On both SUP and skiing/SB and pretty much any other activity have tunes playing now.  But oddly mentioned this to a buddy and for him -> tunes detract and are a negative.  So everyone is different.  In the old days needed quiet to concentrate and think what next to do.  Nowadays not so much.

Yes, listening, or not listening to music is interesting. I love my music. Have a pretty decent collection of old 60’s Rock and Roll. Have lots and lots of digital music and a pretty good collection of old 45’s.

I am always listening to music. Except on the water. My original on water activity was kayaking. First started out in Deep Cove area and then kayaked some at the Lake where we now live. In both locations, especially on weekends in the summer, there is a lot of boat traffic. So I wanted to make sure I could hear any boats that were around me. So I started out not listening to music when I was on the water.

And now I’ve kept the same no music while paddling, while on my SUP. Funny thing, while this started our for safety, when I go out now in the middle of winter with zero boat traffic, I still don’t listen to music. I tend to like the solitude of paddling and the quiet of nature.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Quickbeam on March 31, 2018, 07:17:21 PM
Hi All,
This is my first time posting. I paddle on the ocean on the Sunshine Coast, BC. I paddle in all conditions, really enjoy down winding, and am looking for a board that will be good in all of what the ocean brings me.
I've been eying the 23" Allstar that Eagle posted but am concerned that it will be too much for me. I ride a TRX 11'6" x 29" which I love and find very stable, but I am 5'3" with a small build and I feel that it is too wide for me. I have a 26" Red Paddle Race that I don't find tippy but don't enjoy paddling, because I find it slow. Do you think going from a 29" to a 23" is too big a change? I don't want to not use it because I have to pay too much attention to my balance.
I just noticed a ONE EVO 24" has been posted. Perhaps that might be better?
Many thanks for all the great posts. I'm not a "gear" person, so I appreciate any help.


Hi Salish,

I just took another look at your post and noticed you mentioned the 14’ x 24” Evo. I test paddled that board very briefly last year and really liked it. I didn’t have it out in chop, and again, it was only a brief test, but it really did impress me. So much so that I went out later in the year and bought its’ shorter and wider cousin, the 12’ 6” by 26” Evo.

You’ll notice that I don’t have any 14’ boards as I just don’t have the room to store them. And the reason I went for 26” is that I already have a 24.5” Whiplash, and I really wanted the Evo for using during the winter, and also in the summer for when it does get choppy.

But the first ONE Sup I paddled was that 14’ x 24” Evo and it definitely made an impression. As others have said though, best to test paddle before buying.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on March 31, 2018, 07:49:56 PM
Yep still remember when I got the Dom and could only hear the drip drip drip of the paddle from the exit to the catch.  That was so zen and mesmerizing.  Loved that about the Dom -> and still do today.  In part a very good reason for us to keep that board.  Complete relaxation and quietness.  My wife uses that board mostly now.  She is rock solid on that board now whereas when she first started it was way too tippy for her.

For my AS it has so much more splash comparatively even with its fairly sharp cutting boof.  The splash is relatively small as the entry on the 23 is quite svelte.  But still is a big splash vs the Dom.  So that board just does not have that same zen sensation.  Music helps cover up the splash noise for me.

What is really weird is I can hear the music initially -> but then it fades out as my concentration level peaks riding waves.  Whether on the AS or skiing or SB or whatever.  Only when my concentration level drops -> like going upwind or when sitting on a chairlift can I hear the music again.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: supsisting on April 01, 2018, 09:18:51 AM
Hi all. I was just wondering what the rider weight range was for the ONE EVO 24 THAT Salish is looking at. I am 6'3" and 220. Would that exceed the recommended upper range of that board. I would also wonder about the skill level required and how you would judge that with one brief demo. PonoBill is hilarious but what is realistic?
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Salish Sea SUPer on April 01, 2018, 11:14:06 AM
Quickbeam, I agree with you about no music when paddling. I like the way that my mind goes quiet out there. Sometimes I don't think I'm thinking at all.
I'm trying the ONE EVO next weekend, and I will bring a scale, Eagle! Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: robon on April 01, 2018, 11:50:43 AM
Hi all. I was just wondering what the rider weight range was for the ONE EVO 24 THAT Salish is looking at. I am 6'3" and 220. Would that exceed the recommended upper range of that board. I would also wonder about the skill level required and how you would judge that with one brief demo. PonoBill is hilarious but what is realistic?

Hey, I'm the same weight as you at around 5'10".5. I have an Evo 14 x 26 and have paddled the 14 x 25 Evo. On paper the the 24 will float you ok but it will require considerably more concentration and skill when it's not flat compared to boards that are a couple inches wider with more volume. As mentioned by Eagle, the 26" Evo has a bit of initial roll but it's quite stable and a good choice for a paddler 200 pounds+. The 14 x 25" Evo still has a lot of volume but was a bit less stable for me than the 26, and with the 24" having less volume, and losing another inch, then I could imagine it needing a lot of concentration and decent skill to use in all conditions. Constant micro movement and balance which isn't a bad thing if you want to challenge yourself.  I wouldn't consider it myself unless I was serious about racing and wanted the challenge.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Quickbeam on April 01, 2018, 12:15:26 PM
Quickbeam, I agree with you about no music when paddling. I like the way that my mind goes quiet out there. Sometimes I don't think I'm thinking at all.
I'm trying the ONE EVO next weekend, and I will bring a scale, Eagle! Thanks for the tip.

Hi Salish,

Let us know how you make out on the board.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: supsisting on April 01, 2018, 01:41:10 PM
Thanks Robin. You confirmed what l already suspected. I think with my height I would be better on a 27 or 28. But it is good to hear that the 24 would float me. Thanks again. Cheers.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: ForeverBlue232 on April 06, 2018, 06:34:31 AM
Pretty much any modern all water race board will go plenty fast depending on your skill and power level.  Narrower is often more efficient for paddlers with good technique and balance -> but can be terrible if balance is a problem.  So really is dependent on the rider what suits that person best. 

Definitely try as many boards as you can otherwise expect to swap for something else down the road.  Just look at this forum for examples where paddlers have switched from board to board to board -> sometimes within the same year.

Can concur with ukgm that the AS is a good AW design as have been paddling mine for a year and a half now.  The 24.5 or 25 is a good width that many race on.  If possible get one used to keep costs down.  They sell pretty quick round here.

When I arrive in town for the Carolina Cup, I pick up my new board, a Sunova Allwater Faast Pro 14x27.  Unfortunately this was a purchase I had to make sight unseen.  So hopefully I researched well and got what is best for me.  I'll find out when I race in the CC.  It's only .5" wider than my current race board (14x26.5 Bote Valhalla), and it's a dugout.  So i think I'll enjoy the stability, which will let me be more confident to crank hard on my strokes. 
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on April 06, 2018, 09:36:04 AM
Nice.  The Pro 27 should be better in rough water and over distance but expect the efficient pin to feel tippy when stepping back.  For racing it is very important to be able to feel confident to put down power so you can concentrate on the race and your competitors.  The shape of the Pro looks faster than the Ace up front.  Paddled a 23.5 Ace and it felt slow on flat because of how tubby wide it was.

Way back I used my Touring pin 30 for a rough water race and it performed like a champ.  Placed first in my div by a large margin.  On my Dom 27.5 my speed would have been slower slamming thru the waves.  So appreciate very well how proper stability can affect performance.

Good luck on your new board.  And let us know how that board works out for you.

https://sunovasurfboards.com/en/sup/flatwater-touring-race/allwater-faast-pro
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on April 30, 2018, 05:44:44 PM
Update to this thread, tried my first race board out today in flat water with some minimal chop here and there. It's a BIC WC Carbon 14' x 21.5" wide. I thought it would be pretty tough (I'm 175 lbs/77kg roughly), and while I can't really turn it or even attempt to pivot turn, it's pretty stable for just straight paddling, etc.

What a workout it is, we went 6 miles in roughly a hour and 20 with some bullshitting, talking, etc. mixed in. It's pretty nice to have something that moves smoothly through the water. I'm thinking about getting it, and at least toying with the idea of getting into racing.

Gotta work on cleaning my stroke up, I've only ever SUP surfed, so I'm used to quick, violent sprints, not long smooth pulls.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: yugi on May 01, 2018, 05:48:07 AM
I reccomend you try a board in some horrible messed up chop. Pretty much anything works in pristine conditions.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Area 10 on May 01, 2018, 08:05:42 AM
I reccomend you try a board in some horrible messed up chop. Pretty much anything works in pristine conditions.

Never a truer word spoken. The measure of a board is how good it is when conditions are bad, not how good it is when conditions are good.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Luc Benac on May 01, 2018, 09:06:30 AM
I reccomend you try a board in some horrible messed up chop. Pretty much anything works in pristine conditions.

Sounds like a definition for my Bark Vapor. might be slowish when it is flat but as soon as we start to hit nasty cross-chop and wind at an angle, I just keep on paddling comfortably holding my line. A friend with a new 2018 AllStar 14x26 just noticed when we were paddling together. I still finished ahead even on the slower board been able to choose my way and take advantage of the small bumps more efficiently.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on May 01, 2018, 11:19:21 AM
Yeah, I'm thinking about maybe going with the 24", even though the 22" was really easy to paddle and I could weigh on the rails back and forth until they were about to roll without any real issue.

I just don't have a bearing on what would keep me at least in the same field in a race but would still be fun to ride in different conditions. To give you an idea, I'm on a 110L surfboard, but I'm comfortable down to 100L generally speaking (depending on board shape, etc.).
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: warmuth on May 01, 2018, 12:03:45 PM
  Just as an indication, almost no one races on a 22. Not that you can’t do it but you’ve got to be realistic when comparing yourself to anyone who pulls it off successfully.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on May 01, 2018, 12:06:44 PM
  Just as an indication, almost no one races on a 22. Not that you can’t do it but you’ve got to be realistic when comparing yourself to anyone who pulls it off successfully.

Cool, yeah that's what I was looking for.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: yugi on May 01, 2018, 12:15:07 PM
As lovely as a pointy displacement nose is in flat water when you are drafting, on race chop behind leaders or in chop it gets pulled one way or another and results in a death-roll.

A board with parallel outline and allwater [non-displacement] bow can be ridden narrower. Which is what race boards are tending towards. For good reason.

The Tracer was not a bad board but things have moved on since then.

Try some more if you can.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: yugi on May 01, 2018, 12:18:40 PM
psst, APPST

check this out
   https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,33472.msg377335/topicseen.html#new

You said...
… I'm pondering getting a race board just for one more option to get on the water. I'm in an area (Charleston, SC) that has a pretty solid racing scene, and I could see maybe doing some comps later on just for fun.


Given what you said about your SUS boards and you being OK on  21" wide Tracer I think you can grab the Balckfish. You'll be faster and have more fun in races with that.

Looks cooler too. And, mmmmmmmmm.... light. Light boards are nice.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: ForeverBlue232 on May 01, 2018, 12:26:01 PM
That's a nice board.  A little thinner than I think I'd want, maybe.  But I'd love to try it out if only I wasn't so far away.  Though I'd want to add the pro box twins to it.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on May 01, 2018, 12:45:34 PM
psst, APPST

check this out
   https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,33472.msg377335/topicseen.html#new

You said...
… I'm pondering getting a race board just for one more option to get on the water. I'm in an area (Charleston, SC) that has a pretty solid racing scene, and I could see maybe doing some comps later on just for fun.


Given what you said about your SUS boards and you being OK on  21" wide Tracer I think you can grab the Balckfish. You'll be faster and have more fun in races with that.

Looks cooler too. And, mmmmmmmmm.... light. Light boards are nice.

Yeah, that's a good distance away, I'll keep my options open.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on May 02, 2018, 05:42:29 AM
How would a 14' SIC Bullet V2 work into a race? I'm guessing it's a lot more downwind-oriented (and again I'll probably only do downwinders in >10 knots because I'm going to kite otherwise). I am ultimately looking for something to do mid-length races (like Money Island - CC) eventually, a year out may be a good time to try.

Would I get completely smoked on a more downwinder oriented board? It seems pretty wide at 27.5", but I found one second hand locally for $1k.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: ukgm on May 02, 2018, 07:02:13 AM
  Just as an indication, almost no one races on a 22. Not that you can’t do it but you’ve got to be realistic when comparing yourself to anyone who pulls it off successfully.

This has changed in the UK substantially this year. At the biggest race in the UK held last month, out of a field of 40 male 14ft paddlers, ~15% of those were on boards around 21 inches in width. Nobody in the top 10 was on anything wider than 24.5 (and most were on 23 or narrower). The race game is changing and if it continues this way, I'll be leaving it within 2-3 years.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on May 02, 2018, 07:57:17 AM
Ok, so given my options and probably a 75/25 split between flatwater/race training and some light downwinding, what are your thoughts:

BIC Tracer WS 14' x 21.5"
BIC Tracer WS 14' x 24.5"
SIC Bullet V2 14' x 27.5"

Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: warmuth on May 02, 2018, 10:08:33 AM
  Just as an indication, almost no one races on a 22. Not that you can’t do it but you’ve got to be realistic when comparing yourself to anyone who pulls it off successfully.

This has changed in the UK substantially this year. At the biggest race in the UK held last month, out of a field of 40 male 14ft paddlers, ~15% of those were on boards around 21 inches in width. Nobody in the top 10 was on anything wider than 24.5 (and most were on 23 or narrower). The race game is changing and if it continues this way, I'll be leaving it within 2-3 years.

  How many of them are regular guys just wanting to do some racing? One of the guys in Florida who wins a ton of races is on a 22. He’s also a freak and has ability far beyond an average decent racer. It’s only changing in respect to the fast guys competing with themselves. The almost part of almost no one is referring to the top few % of elites that actually have a chance of winning.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: yugi on May 02, 2018, 12:43:47 PM
Ok, so given my options and probably a 75/25 split between flatwater/race training and some light downwinding, what are your thoughts:

BIC Tracer WS 14' x 21.5"
BIC Tracer WS 14' x 24.5"
SIC Bullet V2 14' x 27.5"

You said light downwinding ... Ahhhhh... now you're talking.

Tracers:
Sorry, Exec summary is: “last season”.
Don’t get me wrong. I liked the Tracer. Like, 5 years ago. Was an OK allroundish flatwater board.
You said DW. So Tracer dismissed.

Bullet V2:
Not exactly your best pick for a race board. Nope, not when you said you felt happy on a 21” wide needle-noser.
Yes, OK for:
- nice deal
- winter riding in very cold water (way up on all that volume your feet do stay nice an dry all winter)
- DW in Kn 18+

Bullet is a very nice allround/DW board, but with your board skills and wanting to do the occasional race; Kaya’s Blackfish is exactly what you want (worth the 30% upgrade).  Light DW included [at your skillset]. Or something that shape.

Ask Kaya or DK78.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on May 02, 2018, 12:49:32 PM
Ok, so given my options and probably a 75/25 split between flatwater/race training and some light downwinding, what are your thoughts:

BIC Tracer WS 14' x 21.5"
BIC Tracer WS 14' x 24.5"
SIC Bullet V2 14' x 27.5"

You said light downwinding ... Ahhhhh... now you're talking.

Tracers:
Sorry, Exec summary is: “last season”.
Don’t get me wrong. I liked the Tracer. Like, 5 years ago. Was an OK allroundish flatwater board.
You said DW. So Tracer dismissed.

Bullet V2:
Not exactly your best pick for a race board. Nope, not when you said you felt happy on a 21” wide needle-noser.
Yes, OK for:
- nice deal
- winter riding in very cold water (way up on all that volume your feet do stay nice an dry all winter)
- DW in Kn 18+

Bullet is a very nice allround/DW board, but with your board skills and wanting to do the occasional race; Kaya’s Blackfish is exactly what you want (worth the 30% upgrade).  Light DW included [at your skillset]. Or something that shape.

Ask Kaya or DK78.

Cool, thanks. Good info, yeah, and by downwinding, I mostly mean going to the beach and heading in the direction of the current/light wind (less than 10 knots) and maybe riding a little bump in the water. I want mostly speed for racing that I can still get through chop without wanting to poke my eyes out.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: yugi on May 02, 2018, 01:00:45 PM
  Just as an indication, almost no one races on a 22. Not that you can’t do it but you’ve got to be realistic when comparing yourself to anyone who pulls it off successfully.

This has changed in the UK substantially this year. At the biggest race in the UK held last month, out of a field of 40 male 14ft paddlers, ~15% of those were on boards around 21 inches in width. Nobody in the top 10 was on anything wider than 24.5 (and most were on 23 or narrower). The race game is changing and if it continues this way, I'll be leaving it within 2-3 years.

First:
A10 has long said UK race scene is pure flatwater canals. So numbers not pertinent for you APPST. Ask A10, he used to be a displacement nose kind of guy

Second:
Width means very little. It’s the shape (and a bit more) that counts. A parallel outline board provides a lot more overall stability for its widest point. A fish shape’s wide point is much wider than it’s realistic stability.

EXEC SUMMARY:
with a board like an Infinity Backfish x24 you will have a good:
- allround training board
- race board
- light DW board (I know youy'll kite when it honks, I kite)
... - and light (which you will notice counts a lot on these huge boards)

Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Luc Benac on May 02, 2018, 01:27:51 PM
Yes the Blackfish at this price if you leave close enough is a no-brainer. Not even sure why to discuss it :-)
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on May 02, 2018, 02:19:44 PM
Yes the Blackfish at this price if you leave close enough is a no-brainer. Not even sure why to discuss it :-)

Yeah, that's a solid 14 hour drive for me.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Luc Benac on May 02, 2018, 03:12:32 PM
Yes the Blackfish at this price if you leave close enough is a no-brainer. Not even sure why to discuss it :-)

Yeah, that's a solid 14 hour drive for me.

Often the same problem in Canada :-)
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: ukgm on May 03, 2018, 12:14:04 AM
  Just as an indication, almost no one races on a 22. Not that you can’t do it but you’ve got to be realistic when comparing yourself to anyone who pulls it off successfully.

This has changed in the UK substantially this year. At the biggest race in the UK held last month, out of a field of 40 male 14ft paddlers, ~15% of those were on boards around 21 inches in width. Nobody in the top 10 was on anything wider than 24.5 (and most were on 23 or narrower). The race game is changing and if it continues this way, I'll be leaving it within 2-3 years.

First:
A10 has long said UK race scene is pure flatwater canals. So numbers not pertinent for you APPST. Ask A10, he used to be a displacement nose kind of guy

That's not true. It's a mix of rivers, estuaries and relatively flat sea races. Of the top 3 events we had in 2017, one was a river race, one was estuary based and the third was a mix. However, I'm of the firm opinion that unless you are an athlete who will win races with clear water, you should go for the narrowest allwater board you can produce full power with. I think flatwater specific boards are limited and not not as tactically flexible as contemporary allwater boards.

Here's a stat for you though: The Head of the Dart was the biggest distance racing event in the UK in 2016 & 2017 (and probably will be in 2018). It takes place on a mix of a river and an estuary. The average width of the top 10 placing males on a 14ft board at the race in 2016 was 24 inches, in 2017 it was 23.6 inches and in 2018 it fell again to 22.4 inches.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: yugi on May 03, 2018, 01:37:30 AM
^ agree
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: ukgm on May 03, 2018, 02:25:46 AM
^ agree

By the way, the 2018 downward skew on the width from that UK race data can be entirely attributed to many paddlers buying and racing the Starboard sprint in 21.5 width.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: yugi on May 03, 2018, 02:06:22 PM
Booth is fast.

Makes one jones for a Sprint too.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on May 06, 2018, 02:16:13 PM
"By the way, the 2018 downward skew on the width from that UK race data can be entirely attributed to many paddlers buying and racing the Starboard sprint in 21.5 width."

Yeah that 21.5 Sprint is a killer efficient board on flat.  Can understand the popularity and is the best ever SUP I have ever paddled to accelerate and hold speed.  The 23 AS does not nearly glide as well -> but is so much better in cross chop and in waves DW.

The narrow limit at this point seems to be around 21.5 for races.  Anything less is getting very narrow to balance on in real world race ocean conditions.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on May 16, 2018, 06:45:56 PM
Update to this - is there any reason to look at a 12'6" or is everything going to 14' only?
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: ukgm on May 17, 2018, 12:19:22 AM
Update to this - is there any reason to look at a 12'6" or is everything going to 14' only?

It depends on your aims. As far as international competition goes, it will all be 14ft class only next year. However, if you only paddle for pleasure or do the odd race domestically, 12'6 may be fine. In my country, mens 12'6 racing is pretty much dead. For ladies, it is still evenly split between 12'6 and 14ft.

However, bear in mind that selling a 12'6 board secondhand is getting increasingly difficult.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: FloridaWindSUP on May 17, 2018, 05:25:29 AM
Update to this - is there any reason to look at a 12'6" or is everything going to 14' only?

In Florida, men's has become pretty much 14' only, and many women are also switching to 14' as most races are making "14' and under" the elite women's class.

12'6 can still be a fun board to paddle if you're just racing against yourself, or going for fitness. But if you hope to race against other people, 14 is it. 5% faster than 12'6.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on May 17, 2018, 07:39:23 PM
"I want mostly speed for racing that I can still get through chop without wanting to poke my eyes out."

14 is pretty much the preferred length for racing at this point.  But would not use a Bullet V2 for that unless you want extra drag or will race in very rough conditions.  Better to get that Tracer WS 24.5 or even 21.5 if you have no probs balancing on that.  For some light DW the 24.5 might be the best option of those 3 boards.

I was just out today on my AS23 and it is always a handful in waves.  If racing the AS24.5 would be a more versatile and more stable option for those conditions.
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: Eagle on May 17, 2018, 07:50:29 PM
This shows the 12'6 x 24.5 Tracer in some DW action.

https://youtu.be/A2914BgPB34
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: JEG on May 18, 2018, 05:01:36 PM
This shows the 12'6 x 24.5 Tracer in some DW action.

https://youtu.be/A2914BgPB34

good skills dw that skinny 24.5
Title: Re: Thinking about a Race Board, what should I get?
Post by: APPST_Paddle on May 19, 2018, 07:11:20 PM
Went with the 14' Tracer, thanks for all of the tips.
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