Standup Zone Forum
General => Travel, Trips, Destinations => Topic started by: Wetstuff on March 06, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWgfOND2y68
Jim
-
Very sad to see Jim
-
tragic--ive seen the pics of surfers on trash-filled waves--this is the scuba version
we humans suck
-
Damn....was just reading an article on the volume of plastic we have produced since it was invented. Even the experts on plastic production were shocked.
We do suck.
-
Yes, this really is disgusting. It was shown on one of our local news broadcasts last night. Hopefully videos like this, and the resulting publicity, will help wake us up to what we are collectively doing to our planet.
-
I am by nature suspicious of motive, and was thinking last night; 'Is this real?' It's not only Birthers and 2nd Amendment provocateurs that sow discord. I was a little curious the 'comments were disabled' ...and this 'person' had last posted 9ys ago?! There are no other landmarks to I.D. this as actually having taken place in Bali. Anybody can stand on top of snowcap and selfie with 'K2, 2018' as a caption. Hmmmmm?!
Jim
-
I am by nature suspicious of motive, and was thinking last night; 'Is this real?' It's not only Birthers and 2nd Amendment provocateurs that sow discord. I was a little curious the 'comments were disabled' ...and this 'person' had last posted 9ys ago?! There are no other landmarks to I.D. this as actually having taken place in Bali. Anybody can stand on top of snowcap and selfie with 'K2, 2018' as a caption. Hmmmmm?!
Jim
Good call - better to focus on whether or not this is actually Bali instead of on all the garbage in the sea. Let me guess, this is "fake news" . . . ::)
-
It probably is fake to some degree. We make a lot of plastics--yes. The USA recycles about 35 percent of plastics--lots of room for improvement, but not a bad start. It's much easier to recycle plastics than it is to recycle lead acid batteries and we currently recycle 99.3 percent of those. Tires are much more difficult to recycle since they are a composite of steel, fiber and synthetic rubber. The EU recycles 95 percent, the US about 85%.
Even without recycling, most plastics in the US wind up in landfills. the amount going into the ocean is miniscule. So where does all the plastic waste come from? Mostly local. It will take time for third world countries to seriously recycle, but they are headed that way. Not necessarily for environmental reasons, just as often for reuse and resources.
It's a problem--that can be solved. As usual, the media and the doomsayers present it as a crisis.
-
https://youtu.be/WfGMYdalClU
-
^ well... it could be Bali but just where a cruise ship has dumped it's trash.
It doesn't tell you much but it does show that we dump a lot of shit in the sea.
Edit to add: look what I found: Indonisia major ocean polluter
https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting-the-oceans-the-most/
Shocking! Sri Lanka is tiny.
The point is to begin to make an effort.
For example France has banned shops giving plastic bags. It's back to paper. (The ban is for the single use, fairly flimsy, often see-through plastic bags, that some supermarkets and grocery stores hand out at the check-out. These include even the bio-degradable ones and the plastic bags with handles.)
There's a cost to polluting less, but also a hidden cost for the damage done. We need to be aware and get smarter.
I'm hoping Trump's blatant disregard for the environemnt will have a trim-tab effect and efforts will rebound stronger. At least he's drawing attention to the need.
(https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2016/03/20160303_Recycling-01.jpg)
-
https://qz.com/122003/plastic-recycling-china-green-fence/
https://futurism.com/china-is-enacting-a-plastic-waste-import-ban/
The giant boondoggle known as recycling. Yeah ok,,,now ehat?
Scripps institute designated an entire new layer in the ocean, a plastic layer a few molecules thick, they reckon viruses are traveling the ocean on it. That doesnt happen from.some local waste issues
Scripps also conducts an interesting long term detritus study. Berkley has same study going, Go look it up, clearly shows the plastics are destroying the foundations of nature. Its a hormone disruptor, and its fucking shit up
-
As Chris Rock says: "George Bush gave us Obama. George Bush was so bad, Obama got elected. Trump is going to give us Jesus."
I doubt Jesus would be a great choice, but I agree with the underlying notion, and Yugi's trim tab.
-
https://qz.com/122003/plastic-recycling-china-green-fence/
https://futurism.com/china-is-enacting-a-plastic-waste-import-ban/
The giant boondoggle known as recycling. Yeah ok,,,now ehat?
Scripps institute designated an entire new layer in the ocean, a plastic layer a few molecules thick, they reckon viruses are traveling the ocean on it. That doesnt happen from.some local waste issues
Scripps also conducts an interesting long term detritus study. Berkley has same study going, Go look it up, clearly shows the plastics are destroying the foundations of nature. Its a hormone disruptor, and its fucking shit up
Look at the video. Let me know if you think it's about molecules.
-
...
Tires are much more difficult to recycle since they are a composite of steel, fiber and synthetic rubber. The EU recycles 95 percent, the US about 85%.
...
Roads here are being repaved with a road surface, partly made from old tires, which reduce road noise. In town the effect is stunning. Also water is reduced on the surface.
There's a bit of a cost attached but noise polluiton is greatly reduced in towns. And old tires go into the roads. Voila! Now they are in great demand.
Skateboarder paradise! Not half bad for you road warriers too.
-
As someone who has worked in the recycling business for the last 6.5 years, I can tell you that recycling 100% will never happen in a modern society. There are just some things nobody has a recycling solution for (lotions, crappy used paint, mixed demolition debris, some electronic parts, etc...). California is moving rapidly toward a better system, but the state still tells themselves they're doing better than they really are.
To finish well, it helps to start well. People in charge of manufactured items need to consider where they'll end up when they're engineered life is over. Changes in the materials and requirements for those changes are the best way to reduce landfill waste. The other change is to require treatment of some waste streams to reduce their toxicity and allow for alternate uses when the material hits the "waste" stage of life.
-
Yep. To finish well, it helps to start well.
You should take a trip one day and see what's going on elsewhere Slatch. We got strict rules here regarding paints. Moving quickly to waterbased. Huge changes in the antifouling for boat hulls too.
Rules are a pain in the ass but for a good cause. It's amazing the new paints now but for a while people were complaining.
We're not even allowed to wash below our cars here. You need to do it in a special place euiped to recycle the water.
On the other hand we drink the water where we paddle. How cool is that?
-
As I suspected, the Kuta beach crap is a local thing. Other than gyres you're unlikely to see that concentration from the ocean. Google Kuta Beach plastic.
-
Since I hope most of you surfers have moved on from cheapo plastic bags back to paper ...
Pop quiz!
How many of you recycle all your electronics?
Meaning all electronics. Like smartphones, ipods etc. Including your funky now-retarded neon kinda bulbs. And ATM cards with chips.
-
You should take a trip one day and see what's going on elsewhere Slatch. We got strict rules here regarding paints. Moving quickly to waterbased. Huge changes in the antifouling for boat hulls too.
Do you mean aside from visiting our other locations, or vacations? I'd love to. The work we've done in Hawai'i makes me think that place needs a swift environmental spanking.
The next best thing to travel is to have people visit you. I hope to see my nephew soon, for a sup vacation, and he's getting his PhD in environmental studies in England. He's always fun to talk to, especially after a few pints. :D
-
Interesting thread.
I have heard the saying "everything has a tail pipe". I am wondering what the "tail pipe" of recycling is releasing into the air? And even if the exhaust is "scrubbed" clean, where do the scrubbings go?
I assume recycling is better than mining/drilling, just curious what the net/big picture outcome is.
As far as solutions, renewables make sense to me, as in plants convert the suns energy and everything feeds off this.
Also I listened to a trippy podcast recently, still wrapping my head around the concept. Essentially talking about finding and replicating the "machinery" for creating life and inhabitable planets:
https://chrisryanphd.com/tangentially-speaking/2018/2/6/303-bruce-damer-astrophysicistorigins-of-life
-
yugi--when i moved my office last summer, i disocvered that nyc has an excellent free drop off for all electronic and durable good disposal---felt so good to take it all to one place for proper disposal---i had three loads in a longbed pick up--phones pc's switches routers cabling, even server-cooling ac's and a fridge--taxes are high here, and it's rare, but, in this case i was pleased to see my tax dollars working well. civic/community intiative can work!
-
E-B... My tax $ stopped working about a month ago. Our county had a program like that for a number of years but they now sat; 'Dump it in the bins.' After seeing pictures of those places in MEX and Asia where they 'mine' old PCs and printers with hammers - maybe those countries no longer want our old plastic C'hit for the few bits of copper and other metals.
I am currently doing my share to add to the C'hit pile: I am cutting up a 27' FB Cruiser and hauling it to the landfill. The engines and metal bits will go to the metal salvage yard and I will be free of being reminded of a grand project I failed to compete.
Jim
-
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/11/news/china-scrap-ban-us-recycling/index.html
"In the short term we're going to see a significant drop of exports from the U.S. into China, and there is a little bit of panic in the market," said Adina Adler, an official at the U.S. Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries (ISRI).
There are no longterm solutions either, nobody is stepping up, its all.going into local dumps as of jan 1
Not a molecule problem? Yeah, except the hormone disruptors used to build out plastics are ubuquitous in our enviornment, ie oceans. It aint a local problem.
-
For the record. I don't believe that pollution of the ocean, or the general lack of care sin pollutant production is a local problem. I do believe, or rather know, that the video in question is of a local problem.
And yes, everything has a tailipipe, recycling included. The billions of stockpiled tires that blighted the landscape in the 1990's have been reduced to 50 million mostly by burning them to make cement. Arguably those calciners are going to run anyway, and every tire burned replaces gallons of oil, but it's still making CO2 and lots of other stuff.
But I'm not inclined to view every problem as the start of the apocalypse. Human-caused problems can be human-solved. It takes time, awareness of the problems and people working toward solutions. People are amazingly resistant to making the required changes, and a hell of a lot more willing to complain than work to solve something. Everyone is an environmentalist until there's a sacrifice or effort required.
-
there are no local problems, we are all connected, above and below= salt, alcohol and oil.
There is no science or will or money to remove the base hormone disruptors from the enviornment. They will continue to disrupt the cylcle of life for a very long time.
Plastics, oil, gas and industrial salts have destroyed our biosphere,,,plenty of good science to show that
-
Well then there's no point in making any effort, full speed ahead, all doomed anyway.
Sorry, that's just monumentally stupid and consistent with every doomsday predictor. Its been 73 years since Hiroshima and the doomsday clock is still stuck at two minutes to midnight. Earth to "atomic scientists", your fucking clock is busted.
-
…
Everyone is an environmentalist until there's a sacrifice or effort required.
“People wish to be settled; only as far as they are unsettled is there any hope for them.”
― Ralph Waldo Emerson
-
Well then there's no point in making any effort, full speed ahead, all doomed anyway.
Sorry, that's just monumentally stupid and consistent with every doomsday predictor. Its been 73 years since Hiroshima and the doomsday clock is still stuck at two minutes to midnight. Earth to "atomic scientists", your fucking clock is busted.
No.
They only just very recently moved it back to 2 mins to midnight.
For the very 2 concerns I expressed about Trump cumming into power. War and environment.
When they started that clock, yes at 2 mins to midnight, it was a pretty scary period. Fact is we just got back to it.
Here’s to hoping it’s a trimtab.
[pun intended]
-
Stop with name calling, nobody said we are all going to die. Its impossible to have a sane conversation in this echo chamber of ponobill, seriously
Your statements of it being local is Bullshit
Your statement of being fixable is Bullshit
You being full of shit doesnt make me a doomer or wrong, or anybody else that disagrees with you
Nobody mentioned nuclear
I mentioned hormone disruptors broken down from plastics, its killing the biology of the world. There is no science that can tackle that,,,,its a fact. How about stay on topic
Or back to my other point, you kill every conversation at this place that has any substinence, other than your personal interests,,,ie, batteries, motors, oil, houses, garages and more toys and plastic
Have at it. This place sucks because of you,,,, my opinion. Good bye
-
LOL
Good4nothing, take a breather and come back tomorrow. I learned something new with the info you sourced. Thanks. So stay.
[IMO] Pono was obviously just referring to the original poster’s viddy of big [yes, local] plastic crap.
You’re right. He’s right. Reality is we humans suck!
Well, corporate CEO’s more because they have to produce quarterly stock results. That’s how they are measured. Not on how much they pollute. That is until we impose a cost on it.
Not going to happen in a country controlled by corporations. Just do the math.
Case in point:
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/03/how-trump-is-changing-science-environment/
Trimtab. Hopefully.
And hopefully our Patcha Mama is resilient.
-
https://youtu.be/WfGMYdalClU
Well, I know I REALLY like this video (never saw it before, thanks for posting) and no matter what side of anything you stand on I wouldn't understand if someone said they didn't get the message. We're just.....slobs just like the original video shows no matter how you look at it.
-
When I was in Bali in the late 80's, there was very little trash and litter. All the takeout food was served on banana leaves and eaten with bamboo chopsticks or skewers. Every one just threw them into one of the rice irrigation streams and it either decomposed or was eaten by the loose ducks, dogs, or lizards.
When I went back in 1999, there was trash everywhere. Food was now being served with Styrofoam plates and plastic forks. Everyone still threw it in the streams, but nothing ate it. That's the problem with plastic, it is a permanent product that is used for throwaway products. No amount of recycling efforts can get ride of it. Recycling may be able to limit it, but as long as plastic is used for for throwaway products, there will be a problem.
-
Well then there's no point in making any effort, full speed ahead, all doomed anyway.
Sorry, that's just monumentally stupid and consistent with every doomsday predictor. Its been 73 years since Hiroshima and the doomsday clock is still stuck at two minutes to midnight. Earth to "atomic scientists", your fucking clock is busted.
No.
They only just very recently moved it back to 2 mins to midnight.
For the very 2 concerns I expressed about Trump cumming into power. War and environment.
When they started that clock, yes at 2 mins to midnight, it was a pretty scary period. Fact is we just got back to it.
Here’s to hoping it’s a trimtab.
[pun intended]
Yeah, I know. The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists started the doomsday clock in 1947 in an effort to scare people into sanity about nuclear weapons. It didn't work. Pointing out that something is an existential threat which is generally out of people's control is more likely to desensitize them, or even motivate them in destructive ways. It was two minutes to midnight in 1953 when the US detonated a fusion bomb. In the 80's it was 3 minutes to midnight even though there were roughly 60,000 nuclear weapons in the world in the hands of what eventually became 9 nations (I don't remember when India, Pakistan, and North Korea developed nukes and I don't know when Isreal did), and nearly 30 nations were working to develop bombs of their own. There are now about 10,000 nukes in the world and theoretically, NO new nations are working to join the nuke club. After New START the Journal decided to add climate change. I guess one existential threat was just not enough. In reality, there have been many ways beyond simple numerical decrease that the threat of nuclear war has diminished as the evidence of no further use of weapons since 1945 seems to suggest. And a lot more can and hopefully will be done.
Goodfornuttin', you might read more carefully. I didn't call you a name. I said a statement I typed was monumentally stupid. Absent your ability to parse that there's not much more to say.