Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Technique => Topic started by: APPST_Paddle on February 13, 2018, 06:22:28 PM
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This is a bit long winded, but here goes:
I had a bit of a breakthrough in the last few days and wanted to share a bit of it. A little background first - I've been SUP surfing for 3 years and have worked down in board size/volume and will continue to do so, although my primary board right now is a 8'8" Jimmy Lewis SuperTech, 108L. I went with a bit of extra length (I've had 8'4" and smaller boards as well) because our waves are typically slow, and I wanted a lower volume, thinned out rail with enough stability to stand on.
In any case, I went on an once in a lifetime trip to Tavarua (I won the trip) and was not sure how I would fair with Cloudbreak. It ended up being a blast, and unforgettable. Waves were chest - overhead, with solid power, but it was doable, although certainly more power than I've experienced at home, Costa Rica, or California.
I only used the GoPro for half of one session, just because I was the only SUP and I wanted to focus on riding and sometimes the GoPro throws me off. In any case, attachment #1 is a screen grab off a video at Cloudbreak, cool wave, beautiful reef underneath, and all I can notice is how off my foot placement is. I thought it was just because I was setting up quickly and not having time to reset my feet from staggered surf stance paddling in to a proper stance.
So - fast forward to back at home and we actually have waves. I used the GoPro and noticed I did the same thing at home. Front foot is not on the stringer, back foot is nowhere close to the traction pad.
The last two days I've been determined to place my feet back and correctly located. Today - we had decent waist-chest waves with some power, I was able to really set my feet back and wow, what a difference it makes turning and pivoting the board with your back foot over the fins. I know this feeling from kiteboarding with a surfboard, but just thought it was our waves being too weak to get far enough back. It's not, it was just poor form. Anyways, I'm going to continue to work on it but the GoPro video today validated what I could feel (2nd pic).
The back foot set over the front fins really makes turning fun and more powerful.
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Thanks APPST
Yes foot position is something that I to am trying to work on. To ‘unroot’ my feet and start to move around on the board and occationally in the right position is a revelation. Starting to try to walk to the nose of my 8’10” Speeed. So much to learn ......
Cheers
Bob
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Thanks APPST
Yes foot position is something that I to am trying to work on. To ‘unroot’ my feet and start to move around on the board and occationally in the right position is a revelation. Starting to try to walk to the nose of my 8’10” Speeed. So much to learn ......
Cheers
Bob
Bob,
Yeah, I ride a Jimmy Lewis Black and Blue as well, and on it, I have no real issue getting back on the tail on it to pivot turn, and then running up to the nose. The longboard style of riding makes it a lot easier to get back, since the board has more float.
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Man, I need to do this. I tend to trim and ride mid board on the point breaks here. I've been working on walking the board but now really need to get my shorter standup and see if I can force that back foot onto the traction pad.
Thx for the reminder. Can't believe you got to SUP Cloudbreak man!
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Hi APPST
Awesome trip.... so very cool you got to surf Cloudbreak!
Great topic and pics..... I see this foot placement a lot, so it's nice to see a thread to discuss it.
It's not bad to have your feet trimmed forward going down the line at Cloudbreak....
But during a turn, when your feet are on opposite sides of the stringer, they are fighting each other.
1st pic - your back foot is trying to bury the rail, and the front foot is opposing it.
2nd pic is great.... front foot neutral.... allowing the back foot to bury the rail in a nice turn.
I have to work on getting my back foot to the stomper..... I tend to rely on the rail too much, so I don't get a nice slashing turn, on a cutback.
My Soloshot3 is up and running, so that will urge me to step all the way back more often.
Funny...when surfing the 14' Search, I have no trouble getting to the stomper.... it's the only way it turns.
But on my normal boards, I struggle to make the effort.
SUP surfing is so much fun to work out... so many things to learn!
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been feeling the stomp and arch bar more, of recent--it's good--requires lower, more spread out "laird" stance--turns better, for sure--but ive been finding that, with my front foot amost laughably far forward, i can still trim weight forward for scceleration, while keeping the back foot on the stomp--requires very wide front/back stance--finally got that and getting relaxed with it--next level for me
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Yeah, another morning of good waist-chest+ surf, and I swear it's like night and day difference, especially on my frontside surfing. I listened to some old Paddlewoo podcasts, one in particular with a student who basically said riding in the middle of the board versus the tail is like cutting with a dull vs. sharp knife, and that analogy is spot on. I am carrying more speed through the wave and can go top-to-bottom with more hits than before.
The main difference I've made is that I would typically paddle into a wave with that staggered stance and as I catch the wave I would moved back some, but would not re-center my foot, this caused all sorts of issues I'm sure, particularly sluggish turns and as Creek said - counter-balancing my rail. Now I'm sliding back before I initiate a bottom turn with the goal of having my front foot over or right behind the handle.
The funny thing is I've reviewed backside waves with the Gopro, and I get back properly, but my front foot is still misaligned, so I"m going to work on that next.
I feel like I've progressed more in 2 days than in the past year, video definitely helps, Soloshot 3 is probably the next step.
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foiling is forcing me into a wider stance, and swapping out with Headmount is forcing me to take the same stance on my surfboard. I'm practicing taking waves with the same stance on my SUP just to keep from resetting my mental process: Front foot across the stringer, back foot on the fins. I'm falling a lot, but I'm turning that 10'4" hard and tight. This thread is a revelation. I've been thinking about it as practice for foiling but it could be practice to surf better. I run all over the board surfing in the punky waves we use for foiling practice. I'm going to swap my 9'0" or 8'8" L41 for the 10'4" and get more value out of the swap out time. Besides the fun of learning this with a good friend, I might get a twofer out of swapping. I hate the weak turns I generally do.
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Rick, You should put up more of your pics on the subject... There's a guy from SoCal who did a really neat video about having both feet on the uphill (for lack of a better word) side of the stringer. (sorry I could not find it...)
I personally have a helluva of a time getting out of the parallel/race stance - I waste a lot of makable waves. I have bookmarked this post from Erik at Progression Project. Hopefully, I can simply re-train myself to paddle in his 'normal surf stance' when the water warms.
http://progressionproject.com/different-stances-use
Jim
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Hey Adam. I thought I posted these pictures I took of you at SanO? I just realized they were sized too big, so I don't know what happened with that post? Anyway, here they are. Glad you had a great trip. In the last picture you can see your feet placement pretty clear. Not the greatest surf day at SanO, you can't beat the weather and atmosphere :)
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Hey Adam. I thought I posted these pictures I took of you at SanO? I just realized they were sized too big, so I don't know what happened with that post? Anyway, here they are. Glad you had a great trip. In the last picture you can see your feet placement pretty clear. Not the greatest surf day at SanO, you can't beat the weather and atmosphere :)
Thanks, yeah it was a great trip, and thanks for the pictures. Those help reinforce the fact that I was pretty far off with my foot placement.
Between those pictures and the Fiji GoPro footage it's been quite the revelation that I was riding mostly wrong, ha.
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on fri, appst, i had a decent sesh--thought of your post, and really made effort to be back on the stomp as much as possible--makes a huge difference
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been feeling the stomp and arch bar more, of recent--it's good--requires lower, more spread out "laird" stance--turns better, for sure--but ive been finding that, with my front foot amost laughably far forward, i can still trim weight forward for scceleration, while keeping the back foot on the stomp--requires very wide front/back stance--finally got that and getting relaxed with it--next level for me
Yes, definitely requires a wider...lower...more powerful stance...never heard it called "laird" stance...but, makes sense as he is a power surfer...
You do get more drive having your back foot over the fins...and, you can shift your weight as required to accelerate or stall...or cutback...etc...
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Hey Rick, your warm water colors are looking too good from the winter angle. Here the early am, when the wind is best, have been mostly in the low 30’s. Seems to get harder to get going as the years pile on.
Since your post’s floodgates have opened to the bombs, here’s an other.
https://vimeo.com/138410807
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Hey Adam. I thought I posted these pictures I took of you at SanO? I just realized they were sized too big, so I don't know what happened with that post? Anyway, here they are. Glad you had a great trip. In the last picture you can see your feet placement pretty clear. Not the greatest surf day at SanO, you can't beat the weather and atmosphere :)
I did, and those pictures help to reinforce what I was saying in this thread - that last picture is all but embarrassing, ha. It shows how big of an issue having my foot placement off could be to my balance, etc.
I can't tell you how much this has excited me to get in the water and practice, and luckily mother nature is cooperating this week with some decent waist-stomach high swell. Just landed a Soloshot3 too, so more video should be coming.
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Nice surfinJ.... wild camera gyrations, but it did a great job of showing your foot placement on your longboard..... you really have to be back on the stomper and rail to throw a 10'r around.
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I get that it is good to have that back foot over the stomp pad but I dont get how to make that happen well except in steep waves..on my JL stungun 8'7 if i go back on th stomp pad i feel like i stall out...
is it a matter of a really wide stance ?
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Toolate - yeah, so while some of it is wave-dependent, a lot of times it's more knowing when you can step all the way back as your progress down the wave. I wish I had better video/pictures, but here's a quick breakdown:
Catching the wave:
When I'm paddling for the wave, I'm in a staggered surf stance always in my goofy setup, front to back, my feet are generally pretty close to the handle (middle of the board).
Caught the wave:
Sometimes I have to lean forward a bit to get going on weaker waves, but ideally, as I start going down the face of the wave, I hop my back foot back to the stomp and slide my front foot more inline with the center.
Riding the wave:
I find with SUP more so than traditional longboarding and kiteboarding with a surfboard that you are constantly moving your feet around, so it may be that I come down, make a bottom turn, come up the face and make a cutback, then move forward on the board again to gain speed going back down the wave.
Play with it, make sure to not move back on the board before you have fully caught the wave or you will stall out. Video of yourself helps immensely.
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I get that it is good to have that back foot over the stomp pad but I dont get how to make that happen well except in steep waves..on my JL stungun 8'7 if i go back on th stomp pad i feel like i stall out...
is it a matter of a really wide stance ?
The Stun Gun is designed for fast steep waves that have some juice to them. You need a good amount of speed going to get back on the tail.
It's a slow board in mushy waves but comes alive when it's overhead and barreling. It's just the nature of the shape.
.
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I get that it is good to have that back foot over the stomp pad but I dont get how to make that happen well except in steep waves..on my JL stungun 8'7 if i go back on th stomp pad i feel like i stall out...
is it a matter of a really wide stance ?
The Stun Gun is designed for fast steep waves that have some juice to them. You need a good amount of speed going to get back on the tail.
It's a slow board in mushy waves but comes alive when it's overhead and barreling. It's just the nature of the shape.
.
You might try running quad fins on the Stun Gun if you aren't already. That should help give it a bit more speed.
.
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I get that it is good to have that back foot over the stomp pad but I dont get how to make that happen well except in steep waves..on my JL stungun 8'7 if i go back on th stomp pad i feel like i stall out...
is it a matter of a really wide stance ?
The Stun Gun is designed for fast steep waves that have some juice to them. You need a good amount of speed going to get back on the tail.
Thanks Badger! I have only this board at present other than an old starboard 10 and half footer. Overhead and higher it really shines but sadly most of my surf is chest high or less
It's a slow board in mushy waves but comes alive when it's overhead and barreling. It's just the nature of the shape.
.
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thanks to all the posters here; main takeaway is move, try new foot stances, go for it! I did that last 2 sessions and the board came alive even though the waves were only 2-4
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These 2 videos has helped me recently with foot position and timing, as I also have been having trouble getting back and not stalling. I just found them very concise and clear examples that were easy to translate to Long Island waves. The first is a Fanatic Allwave video with Airton Cozzolino, who is a pretty aggressive surfer. He is on an Allwave, which is a large, floaty surfboard for his ability (he rides a Prowave that is much smaller) . And he is also on small lumpy waves. It clearly shows how far he stretches back to get on that "stomper". At 1 minute 35 seconds, it shows him gliding down a wave, and then when he turns, he steps back to give it the turn. Also, check out his video with the Stylemaster, which is their longboard. At second 11, it really shows him hopping back to give the longboard a turn. And at 15 has a really sharp turn.
Fanatic Allwave https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4zOoJbOs0w
Fanatic Stylemaster https://www.fanatic.com/product/stylemaster-bamboo-edition/
I own a 2016 Allwave Pure, but have no affiliation (if you saw my surfing you would see that)
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progression project/blue zone's chase drilled this into me in CR--and the video review made it so obvious---such simple tweaks if one focuses, and immediately one can feel the improved result:
front foot shd always be centered, back foot moves rail to rail/forward/backward. try to be on or near the stomp with back foot as much as possible, keep stance wide (front to back) so can shift weight significantly between front or back foot
frankly the wide "laird" stance feels a bit awkward, but it's right--especially on my barra, where if i am surfing well, back foot is always near or on the stomp when on the wave, and frt foot stays centered and solid
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Yeah, so I finally got my Soloshot to work and it's a great tool for improving. I had a nice 3 hour session (SS3 I used for the middle hour, didn't want to push my luck with running any longer than that), and I'm still struggling to get my back foot to the stomp even on my 7'6" board. It seems like I slide back as I catch the wave, but not far enough back and then all of my turns are soft. Any tips/practice techniques to consistently get back?
It seems like I get all the way back maybe 2 waves out of 20 and then the board comes alive, I have no idea why I'm not more consistent, other than blaming small waves/lack of power.
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quite funny--your process very similar to mine, only it was the blue zone video that showed me what seemed so obviously obvious once i saw and it was explained
chase kept it simple (which is good--too much to think about and you fail):
front foot centered, well forward, on stringer, relatively fixed/solid.
back foot side to side, a little front/back, hopefully on stomp.
im working on this, and it clearly works................when i get it right
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I sort of slide or wiggle my back foot back as I start down the face of the wave. It happens in the transition from weight forward to back. I would say I still have most of my weight forward as I'm wiggling my back foot back. I'll take off and my a quick turn on the face of the wave, see how my back foot placement feels, then wiggle it back further if needed. Once I have it set, then I turn harder. Sometimes I nail it first time. Other times the wave is too slopey and I need to move my back foot forward to maintain speed and just make slower long carving turns. With longer boards you have to move more...
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Yeah, so here's a quick edit, always looks better in your head then in real life, right?
https://vimeo.com/303114487 (https://vimeo.com/303114487)
https://vimeo.com/303114487
So - clear issues right off the bat:
1. Not coming straight down the face of the wave, rounding turns off.
2. Not bending knees enough, expanding/contracting, etc.
3. Not far enough back on the board (weak turns).
The only thing that has improved is that I do keep my front foot in the middle of the stringer which definitely helps a lot.
Everything needs work, hopefully the SS3 will keep working so I can evaluate as I go.
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APPST...in your original post, was that 2nd picture taken south of the Folly pier? I think we surfed together there a few weeks ago. There were 4 paddlesurfers out and we were all commenting about how rare it was to have the break to ourselves (maybe a Sunday morning?).
I usually a surf a few streets north, but I'll keep an eye out for you next time I'm at the pier.