Standup Zone Forum
General => The Shape Shack => Topic started by: jrandy on January 26, 2018, 08:22:29 PM
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I decided to rebuild the support arms and padding on my surfboard shaping stands to be wider for some 9 to 10 foot SUP action. I found myself using sawhorses on the big ones but these are going to be smaller boards made in a smaller space so I wanted to have optimized stands
Previously the arms were about 3 1/2 x 4 1/2 inches, cantilevered without bracing, and covered in recycled foam and cheap duct tape. I want to say I was on the second tape job, not too bad for stands that have wintered outside a couple times over the past five years.
Now they are about twice as long, braced, and covered with extra-deluxe memory foam carpet pad and recycled t-shirt material. i also spent more time getting them level and rounding the edges. Heck, I even sanded them a little...
The big trick was ironing the t-shirt material and rolling it up on the tube to allow me to unroll it evenly over the foam and spray adhesive.
Hopefully I am moving one blank into the room tomorrow.
I was going to tack this onto the thread 'shaping stand dimensions' but I got the 'probably too old' warning message. -J
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Man, those are nice. My foam is all chewed up from being outside. Now you're gonna make me go and do that. ;)
So funny when you mentioned the bracing. Mine are wobbly as all get out.
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Thanks B.
I think next time I would cut the foam strips, maybe round the upper edges, and attach the t-shirt fabric first while all is flat so that dealing with adhesive overspray and wrinkles is easier, then mount them to the stands. The foam has a bit of a slick skin so the fabric gives a softer hand as well as traction against the blank. Using this material set should allow for faster re-pops in the future.
This is the final step to converting a spare room into a snowbound winter shop. The bigger problem was to figure out how to access the bay from the side versus the end as is customary. My solution was to hinge the LED shaping lights so I did not have to practice any form of contortions to enter the space. I went back and forth for almost a day considering my options and in the end it become simple: a few 1x4's and screws for the fixed side and a similar treatment plus hinges on the other.
Them I got a hankering to model the space in Fusion360...yeah, it seems about that small in real life too.
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Great idea for a winter time project....I've got lots of pressure treated 2x4s lying around so I think I'll bang me out a pair of these.
Very nice jrandy!
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Thanks WS.
The pressure treated uprights in buckets of concrete were repurposed from an outdoor project. The assembly sequence is based on that and leftover 3" deck screws.
I templated the outline and took a lap around the blank with the hot wire so it's official.
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Would anybody want to discuss rails on the board above, 9'8" x 30" x 4.25" all-around 90% flat water for a smaller occasional rider but not wanting it to be useless for slightly larger riders or waves either.
Most of my stuff in the 'surfboard' range seems to come out chined nose, soft/droppped rails, and a hard release on the tail. Should I be considering something different for this? I saw the Odysea in Anon's 'log' thread and the pictures got me thinking. I have a picture to add from an article I found online.
The outline is growing on me. I might make myself one too, more emphasis on surf, and try some stuff like deck channels.
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That looks like the right idea for the rails. With a lower nose rocker (more of a paddler), I'll round the front third (50/50). Even a bottom bevel to make it almost a 40/60. That helps it glide without the nose diving side to side. If there's more nose rocker like a high performance shorter board, I'll go a little more turned down and have the back 2/3's pinched harder.
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Thanks TD. I am thinking of doing a Dave Daum style first rail band cut (indexed from bottom side) to get the meat on the top to start to flow with the rocker on the bottom. His are done with a router jig. I use a hot wire.
https://www.swaylocks.com/forums/dave-daums-railmaker-tool (https://www.swaylocks.com/forums/dave-daums-railmaker-tool)
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I tried the hotwire, but the cord got caught a few times and it made me pause. Each spot I paused the concentrated heat in that spot left these big melted notches that almost ruined the rail. After a few more, I said screw that. I just went back to pencil off my knuckles sliding along the deck and on the side, then cut it with a hand saw. Way....... to easy and quick. I was over thinking it.
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I gave my extra set of standing desk powered legs to Mark Raaphorst this morning, and when I understood what he was planning to do with them I almost snatched them back: He's going to make a powered shaping/glassing stand. Damn, that's brilliant. I don't really need one here in Maui, but I'll probably buy some of these legs for Hood River. They're super sturdy, the raising mechanism is powerful and doesn't have any shake. The width is adjustable. There's a crossbar on the top that stabilizes the top and houses the drive shaft, but he can either live with the crossbar either behind or under the shaping saddles or turn the table upside down to have two pedestals. It will be MUCH sturdier and more stable than the powered stand I made with linear actuators.
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I gave my extra set of standing desk powered legs to Mark Raaphorst this morning, and when I understood what he was planning to do with them I almost snatched them back: He's going to make a powered shaping/glassing stand. Damn, that's brilliant. I don't really need one here in Maui, but I'll probably buy some of these legs for Hood River. They're super sturdy, the raising mechanism is powerful and doesn't have any shake. The width is adjustable. There's a crossbar on the top that stabilizes the top and houses the drive shaft, but he can either live with the crossbar either behind or under the shaping saddles or turn the table upside down to have two pedestals. It will be MUCH sturdier and more stable than the powered stand I made with linear actuators.
I thought of the same thing as I was setting my new desk up.
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I ended up getting rid of the one rolling stand from work that I was going to make into a lifting stand after I was given a drafting table with an electric raise/lower mechanism. The table is nice and there is still a drafting arm mechanism. Maybe I'll figure out a place to put the table and arm and give the mechanism a try.
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You might look to see if Massdrop does another sale of the leg kit. It's the sturdiest electric raising system I've seen. It's going to be stupidly easy to make it into a shaping/glassing table. Turn it upside down and bolt it to the floor.
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I went after the first rail band today, indexed to the bottom side 'Daum' style.
The wider stands are nice for all things except this. I hit one of the stands with the wire and put a 'twang' in the rail about two feet up from the tail. It kinda goes with the big one I put in the nose cutting the outline. So maybe balance is restored on some level...
I also got a little more done on the foil. The rest of the pictures are scattered throughout the Foil SUP forum. I glued the wing holder thing together and added the pegs to locate the wing roots to the holder. Once I have a couple layers of glass on the mating area of the fuselage and holder (separately) I will fit and match drill them for the mounting hardware.
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Slow progress on the board and foil. I have Sharksupper to thank for the boost in seeing the Deep Tuttle adaptor come together on that thread.
-On the board, I did a lower band and chine with the hot wire, next will be the planer. I am hoping it to be ready for a lake come Memorial Day 2018...I need to get busy so it can go to my daughter for artwork.
-On the foil, I assembled the wings to the detachable portion of the fuselage. I made the mistake of not checking for fit before I mixed and spread epoxy. The pegs did not slide well within the holes. I clamped and weighted everything together best I could and the result is fairly straight but there are more gaps in the joints than I would have preferred. Next will most likely be some microspheres and epoxy filler to fill the low spots on the wings and to start building up the fillets to the base and wings.
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I went to band the rails this morning. We are experiencing a snow and ice storm in the upper Midwest and power is flickering- so not the best time to run a tool at 15000rpm and expect to see what is happening. My wireless router also loses power and connection so the interweb is flickering too.
I am using an old Ryobi planer that I got for 12$ from a buddy who found it at a thrift store. It has the so-named 'Newleaf' modifications that replaces the factory click-stop mechanism with a faucet valve stem to give a continuous range of mostion over fewer degrees of rotation. Because of the small size of the space I find myself minding the vacuum hose and power cord with one hand so I end us using it at a fixed depth with the other.
There will be plenty of sanding and more than a little spackle on this one...
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Man, I hadn't been keeping up with this one. It's looking good man.
I need to start planning my next board now that my foil is getting closer to done. You've inspired me to go sand a bit on that in fact.
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Thanks BJ. I still get a little jazzed a little every time I see someone else make forward progress too.
The power stabilized and I added a couple zip ties to the vac hose and power cord to keep the power cord from catching on the stands. Banding is done to a level where I feel good about switching to sanding. I told my daughter another week until paint and that seems doable after today.
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Putt...putt...putt...putt...
Finbox and plugs have arrived in the mail, HD foam inserts cut, board is starting to be glassed.
It might even be done in time to ride once this season.
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hows progress coming?
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Hello SlatchJim, thanks for asking!
Progress has slowed to a stand still. Since last time I got the other side into its first layer of glass and then the fin boxes on the bottom and leash/bungee plugs an the top. I have not been doing well laminating on this one, lots of dry spots along the cut lap and trouble with relief cuts, hence the orange tape in the outdoor photo to show me where I need to sand, patch, etc. Some of this I would like to blame on the material set (7.5 oz mystery cloth, chunky board, and new brand of resin) or working conditions (messy car garage) but it's really an operator issue and I have totally missed the 24 hour re-lam/re-coat windows with epoxy that I would normally try to keep. Weather has turned here, first frost and rain and falling leaves, so I am at the point of either moving production indoors or waiting for spring. The board is currently on the wall racks in the house in the small room that was featured earlier in the thread.
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Man, we ain’t in a hurry, right? It’s supposed to be a hobby.
I just got back from a cross country work trip so I’m trying to get back to laminating myself. Keep at it!
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I'm done with Mystery cloth Screwed up two projects. Not gonna be three.
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Thank you Zone, for this thread and others describing shaping stand construction. Just finished my (lame-ass) attempt at shaping stands this weekend, and somehow, due to no inherent talent possessed by this "carpenter," I somehow made a pair that are level, stable, at a workable height (second attempt) and in use. Subsequently, I took the most uninformative picture ever taken to show off my accomplishment. Yay Zone, useful internet content yet again!
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I like the stands SJ! It took me one or two tries to get mine just right too.
We are back on this board after a 2 year hiatus.
Once image loading is back online I'll post some pics.
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(https://www.swaylocks.com/sites/default/files/jrandy_stand_shed2.jpg)
(https://www.swaylocks.com/sites/default/files/jrandy_stand_shed3.jpg)
(https://www.swaylocks.com/sites/default/files/jrandy_9_8_finboxes.jpg)
Looking for ideas on how to handle the fin boxes and leash plugs.
Leash plugs are still closed, I can glass over and sand open.
Fin boxes went in pre-glass with HD inserts and were opened up.
Still one layer of 6oz+deck patch to go.
Tape and open fin boxes after each step or tape and leave until after fill coat?
Board is getting painted afterwards, forgot to mention this.
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(https://www.swaylocks.com/sites/default/files/jrandy_resin_melt.jpg)
Opened up the can of resin, also ignored since 2018. There was a puck about one inch (2.5cm) thick of crystailzed resin on the bottom. Googled and found a video from System Three, which paralleled the info given to me verbally by another manufacturer years ago. 120-140 F (50-60 C) water bath until it clears. Just using hot tap water was not enough, once it was on the campstove and maintained near 140 F it cleared right up.
Current plan is to tape, lam, and open the fin boxes both for cloth and fill coat. Leash plugs still to be covered and sanded open. I usually cut the fabric with an 'x' over the plug so it does not lift. Then I will tape a last time before it goes to paint.
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I have to do the same thing with my resin. I have a hot plate and big pan just for doing hot water baths. My 5 gallon buck plus concrete stands wobbled too much.
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My 5 gallon stands seem to to pretty good. One of the buckets on one set self-destructed, concrete is ok but harder to move and level. We get 100's of buckets w/o handles at work. It would be a simple matter of resetting it but it's low on the list as it is holding up the 80 pound 1939 Tom Blake 13'9" replica rounded bottom board I made a few years ago.
So waiting out some rain, getting ready to glass once temps reach 70 in the garage. The stands from the beginning of this thread are too wide to tuck the rails.
I came up with this solution that somewhat justifies the plethora of scrap wood I keep around the house. The extra height will be nice for rails too.
I will probably wrap these in plastic to try to keep the pads on the stands resin-free. I got some on one corner last week and it made a hard little knot on the pad.
If I cannot decide whether to use carbon fiber or woven fiberglass for the standing area, would that make me carbon neutral...?
(https://www.swaylocks.com/sites/default/files/jrandy_stand13.jpg)
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Lamination of top complete 6oz glass x 6oz CF patch, one of my last pieces of CF.
Resin went off nice and slow giving me time to work and I had 3.5 [110g] extra to donate to the repair-the-garage-floor-pukas project. Glad the board will be painted too...
(https://www.swaylocks.com/sites/default/files/jrandy_stand14.jpg)
(https://www.swaylocks.com/sites/default/files/jrandy_stand15.jpg)
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Getting there man. Can I laminate in winter and then hot coat in summer? lol. It’s so hard to get the temp right for what I’m doing now when I want to do it.
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Temps have been unusual here too. Some days barely 70, others 90.
The repaired rails turned out better than expected. Filled in a couple spots and around the handle last night.
Surprised at how the carbon tows spread out under the glass while laminating, usually I do a separate patch as a cut lap so I have never seen this. Getting excited to open up plugs and such. The handle could have been better: no template, feehand rout, cloth pulled away a little, tape leaked. So glad it's getting painted...
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I used some old aluminum crutches to turn my shaping stands into taller glassing stands. They adjusted with the push of a mechanical button. Worked on a surfboard, but a little too wobbly for a big SUP. An old glasser friend of mine said he wished he had a powered lift table with a pedal that he could control the height with. Nice for the under wrap. Most of the desk type lift tables have a digital control on the front edge of the table. That would end up being buried in resin.
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LOL TD. I have crutches and an electric drafting table and have yet to modify any for board use.
Cross-posting images on Swaylocks for now.
We have sanded handle flat and leash plugs open. Got another layer of cloth, were up until around 11pm cutting laps and cleaning up. Tonight is supposed to be fill coat one side. Loving the nicer 6oz cloth over the top much more than the 'mystery' cloth underneath, much easier to wrap rails and sand laps.
(https://www.swaylocks.com/sites/default/files/JRANDY_STANDS_HANDLE.jpg)
(https://www.swaylocks.com/sites/default/files/JRANDY_STANDS_CUTLAP.jpg)
(https://www.swaylocks.com/sites/default/files/JRANDY_STANDS_CUTLAP2.jpg)
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Coming towards the end of this build.
Fill coat is on and daughter is anxious to paddle. She seems fixing to abandon a full-on paint job and just go for some rattle can colors. It's a little rough, a few more zits and masking tape flecks than I would like. If it were 100% up to me I would sand and fill coat again or sand and go after it with some sort of 2 part high build primer. Not that I have experience with auto paints, it is on my bucket list to try some spaying sometime. Epoxy company says marine, boat people say use a 2 part , Edubz says Montana, various interweb hacks show the same 5 dollar cans we normally buy around here for other projects. My son and I did a poly board that turned out nice with said 5 dollar cans as a wall hanger but it has never been roaded or surfed. I can see the old rail dings but in most cases I cannot feel them so that seems to be a success story in that regard.
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I love homemade boards.
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We love us some homemade boards too!
The board has moved from glassing to paint.
My daughter chose a bright yellow/green base followed by a green and gold glitter and a little clear.
She also ordered in an entry level carbon paddle, grey traction, and a nice leash. Maybe a fin too, just glad she's working the paint and finishing details so I do not have to.
Its working name is 'Sugar Booger'. At this point the board has a textured and iridescent finish that is hard to photograph, seems to wash out in the phone camera.
We need to figure a clear coat that will fill in and seal it for water use but free of hot solvents that would affect the acrylics and glitter. Would this be a job for a 2 part polyurethane? We could roll and tip or use a low end cup gun. It's been rattle cans so far but I am afraid we'd need a half dozen more clear just to make a difference. Not going for show car stuff, just done and serviceable.
Tech support chat with big online paint distributor yielded nothing, afraid to recommend anything for 'marine' use. We also have a message into the rattle can company.
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I used some old aluminum crutches to turn my shaping stands into taller glassing stands. They adjusted with the push of a mechanical button. Worked on a surfboard, but a little too wobbly for a big SUP. An old glasser friend of mine said he wished he had a powered lift table with a pedal that he could control the height with. Nice for the under wrap. Most of the desk type lift tables have a digital control on the front edge of the table. That would end up being buried in resin.
I built my stands to be pushbutton adjustable with linear actuators. Unfortunately, they wobbled too much to be useful, so the actuators are in a drawer somewhere and the stands got welded.
I gave Mark Raaphorst an extra set of powered desk legs I had to make stands from, it was much more stable than my actuator idea and used a single motor to raise and lower. That would be a good place to start since the desks don't wobble--they've already worked out the mechanism to extend at low friction without having a loose telescoping joint. Some linear bearing would work but I have too many other projects to get done. I don't know whether Mark ever used them. They were't expensive, and yeah, they had the digital number thingy. You could put that in a poly bag.
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We ordered some WR-LPU from System Three for the clear coat for the board in this thread.
I also have an electric drafting table that was earmarked for a shaping/glassing stand but I found the big flat top so useful for projects that I have not sacrificed it yet.
I also have yet to try crutches for stands, I have plenty of those to mess with too...